And so it begins…..map of Sections in open revolt

[Lon]

112885

I wonder who’s next?

[RJ]

Ayup...PSI has been pretty spicy this week.

Mark Stamper, the new GA sectional coordinator; that is the same Mark Stamper who was involved in the recent dust-up at PCC Nationals with D NROI. I am assuming?

[Lon]

112905

[Borderland]

Dang, I thought it was another civil war brewing over Trump's right to run for president again.

[JCN]

Stoeger and PSI are both like CNN to me.

"Revolt" is a little strong of a term. And the color map is just cheesy.

They're media spinning it into what they want it to represent for their own egos.

There are definitely clubs and states that are fed up, but it's more civil disobedience and withdrawal than insurrection.

And in that way, it's likely to be more powerful because it can't be bullied or shut down.





You can't make people do anything and if the people who would volunteer for USPSA decide to volunteer for PCSL or hit factor matches, there's no sanction or punishment that USPSA BOD can do for control.

[Tensaw]

Dang, I thought it was another civil war brewing over Trump's right to run for president again.

Different map...

[RJ]

Couple questions, apologies if obvious:

USPSA is divided into 8 "Areas", correct? So are the Areas then further divided into "Sections", with each Section representing a single State, within the Area?

I'm just trying to work out what the granularity of the Areas are, when folks say they are a "Section Coordinator."

The "About USPSA" page on .org contains this, but it's not clear what a Section is: "The association is organized into 8 "Areas", each of which is represented by an Area Director at the board meetings of the organization. Further, each Area is divided into sections which is represented by a Section Coordinator responsible for coordinating the activities of clubs within his/ her section, and managing the nationals slot distribution process.

Second, does anyone have a link to this "Live Map" that PSI keeps mentioning? I am not on instagram or any other social media, really, so if this is an "ok boomer" question, no worries, I'll figure it out.

[feudist]

https://i.imgflip.com/8abo0y.jpg

[fatdog]

are the Areas then further divided into "Sections", with each Section representing a single State, within the Area?

Mostly, there is an Alabama section and we have a section coordinator, he/she is responsible for stuff like coordinating our state match (section championship) with which ever club is hosting it, they have other duties that I am not familiar with. I know when we want to have a special classifier match at the club level we have to get permission from that person (always just a formality).

I say mostly because I am not sure if some states are split and have more than one section, or if some states are combined with another.

Alabama section has always been a part of area 6 as long as I have been around.

[fatdog]

https://i.imgflip.com/8abo0y.jpg

Me?

Mediocre and Super Senior....

[YVK]

https://i.imgflip.com/8abo0y.jpg


I'm the kind of shooter who'll DQ his ass for his trigger finger.

[CleverNickname]

USPSA is divided into 8 "Areas", correct? So are the Areas then further divided into "Sections", with each Section representing a single State, within the Area?

Some states have multiple sections, and some clubs don't belong to a section.

[BN]

I'm just trying to work out what the granularity of the Areas are, when folks say they are a "Section Coordinator."


When I was involved many years ago, Our section was a geographical area where the clubs could get together for organizational purposes such as scheduling matches to prevent dates conflict. Our section consisted of clubs in 3 states and bled over to a second Area. I was SC for a few years. Thankless job. I don't know if there are any rules about it now or not. That section has since been broken up into different sections.

[RJ]

Hey I gotta question...I frequently see references to alternatives to USPSA such as PCSL and something called "Hit Factor" matches. I understand what PCSL is, but Hit Factor...I'm not clear?

Is a Hit Factor match as simple as whoever has the highest hit factor, overall, wins the match?

[Archer1440]

Hey I gotta question...I frequently see references to alternatives to USPSA such as PCSL and something called "Hit Factor" matches. I understand what PCSL is, but Hit Factor...I'm not clear?

Is a Hit Factor match as simple as whoever has the highest hit factor, overall, wins the match?

Hit factor is precisely how USPSA/IPSC is scored. If someone is calling a match a “hit factor” match, it’s likely that it’s a USPSA style event without it being sanctioned by USPSA.

PCSL also uses a hit factor scoring system. Points/second. Balancing speed and accuracy for the most part.

This is opposed to “time plus”, used by IDPA and ICORE. Biased towards accuracy to a degree.

[RJ]

Hit factor is precisely how USPSA/IPSC is scored. If someone is calling a match a “hit factor” match, it’s likely that it’s a USPSA style event without it being sanctioned by USPSA.

PCSL also uses a hit factor scoring system. Points/second. Balancing speed and accuracy for the most part.

This is opposed to “time plus”, used by IDPA and ICORE. Biased towards accuracy to a degree.

Thanks. Yeah I understand how hit factor works. Sounds like "hit factor match" is just code word for "we're running the same match on Practiscore, just not paying USPSA to do it."

[Noah]

Thanks. Yeah I understand how hit factor works. Sounds like "hit factor match" is just code word for "we're running the same match on Practiscore, just not paying USPSA to do it."

Pretty much. Also seen it called a USPSA style Outlaw match.

[Totem Polar]

I'm the kind of shooter who'll DQ his ass for his trigger finger.

Point taken. Besides, who wears red glasses while running a red dot?

[fatdog]

So last night our club president, tribal leader, etc. convened those of us who have been the active members, match directors, etc for our USPSA club for dinner and he wanted to talk about all this. We have received no communication about this BS from our section leader or any other club.

Long discussion about what we should do, the value USPSA provides, etc. In the end we decided to just pay our affiliation fees and match fees, classifier fees, etc. in 2024 and just go on as if nothing has happened. Everybody just wants to shoot, our club matches and some other matches in our section. Same thing the vast majority of our attendees at every match.

In reflection on the larger picture, we could decide at some point in the future just to run the same match as a non-sanctioned match using the same scoring system and rules.

The two things of value USPSA provides us are a classification system, a standardized set of rules, and the other thing of value they provide some is the system in place for major matches. At this point in time we only have one member who cares at all or attends/competes in the majors, the rest of our folks who used to attend those got burned out on them at some point in the past and don't find them fun or interesting anymore. Several members of our team stated they hoped to shoot the AL section match this year. Nobody but one shooter plans to go deal with Area 6 or any of the majors, even when they are in our back yard at Talladega.

We talked about rules and the state of NROI. Everyone of us was trained by John Amidon, we all miss him. All but one of us have let our RO certification expire, including two former CRO's. None of us is going to work an area match or for that matter the state section match again even though all of us have dozens of those under our belt as RO/match staff. Nobody has any use for Troy or his rulings, clarifications or leadership. The rule base has become volatile and complex to the point where it begins to be baffling instead of enlightening sometimes.

PSCL reminds us all of the beginning of IDPA, where it was a private thing with one person at the top. Not an experience any of us want to repeat no matter how good a person this guy is. We started and ran an IDPA match at the club at the turn of the century and finally got fed up with the inconsistency of their rule base and the highly subjective nature of how the sport and matches were run. That plus Wilson's personal dictatorship and how he several times changed the rules with no notice just because something ticked him off (e.g. holster rules).

The discussion turned to the fact that the heart and soul of this sport is the club shooter. Literally +95% of the people who come to our club matches could give a shit about the board, the nationals, all the drama, etc. The number of dead trees consumed in their monthly publication about major matches is skipped by all of us so we can read the technical stuff at the end of the magazine where there is actually valuable information. The national organization is totally fixated on matters related to those major events and sponsorships, which 95% of the total membership could give two hairs off a rats ass about, they just want to go shoot their local club match and have fun. This seems to be completely lost on both the organizations "leadership" as well as the people like Stoeger who are obsessed with jousting with those people.

Nobody is truly focused on improving the value provided to clubs who pay the dues and provide 100% of the sport and its structure for 95% of the membership.

Final conclusion of our meeting, hell with the board, forgot Troy and his NROI rages, forget this so called leadership team and HQ staff, forget Stoeger and the rest of the celebrity shooters, or critics engaged in this back and forth trashing, lets just get on with our club shooting season and have fun. We will evaluate this time next year if anything has changed that is worthy of any change on our part.

[JCN]

I’ll also point out that a non-trivial proportion of USPSA member activities are Steel Challenge and there is no organized suitable alternative sport for that.

[CleverNickname]

I’ll also point out that a non-trivial proportion of USPSA member activities are Steel Challenge and there is no organized suitable alternative sport for that.
RCSA is a thing, at least for rimfire.

[JCN]

RCSA is a thing, at least for rimfire.

For a lot of the Steel Challenge shooters that I know, SCSA’s database and classification is a huge positive. You can compete against yourself and the database no matter who shows up at the match.

[Norville]

Here in WI, two of our seven (?) clubs have dropped USPSA affiliation, and one club will run one 10 stage PCSL match this year in addition to their monthly USPSA match . Not sure if it counts as a “revolt”.

[JCN]

Here in WI, two of our seven (?) clubs have dropped USPSA affiliation, and one club will run one 10 stage PCSL match this year in addition to their monthly USPSA match . Not sure if it counts as a “revolt”.

Both the BOD and Insights/Stoeger are two sides of the same coin. Both sides push their own agenda above all else and thinly mask it with saying “it’s for the greater good” when really it’s just for their own egos primarily.

Both sides don’t care about collateral human damage and destruction as long as their agenda is pushed forward.

I think both sides lack basic human compassion and kindness, being driven more by their feelings of being wronged or slighted above all else.

Without Insights, Arnburg would still be on the board…

[MVS]

I’ll also point out that a non-trivial proportion of USPSA member activities are Steel Challenge and there is no organized suitable alternative sport for that.

I almost kept my USPSA membership for that very reason. In the end I didn't renew, for the first time since I joined in 2016 when CO went provisional.

[Clusterfrack]

Both the BOD and Insights/Stoeger are two sides of the same coin. Both sides push their own agenda above all else and thinly mask it with saying “it’s for the greater good” when really it’s just for their own egos primarily.

Both sides don’t care about collateral human damage and destruction as long as their agenda is pushed forward.

I think both sides lack basic human compassion and kindness, being driven more by their feelings of being wronged or slighted above all else.

Without Insights, Arnburg would still be on the board…

But they aren’t the same coin. The BoD is an elected body representing USPSA members. They should be held to a high standard, and have failed miserably.

Everyone else on the Internet can be any level of dick they want to be, and IMO not relevant to the situation.

[JCN]

But they aren’t the same coin. The BoD is an elected body representing USPSA members. They should be held to a high standard, and have failed miserably.

Everyone else on the Internet can be any level of dick they want to be, and IMO not relevant to the situation.

We have different opinions and expectations of elected officials.

Elected officials are often egomaniacs who get corrupted with power. They usually can’t even meet a basic standard of decency.

If we can’t reasonably expect a President of the US not to take advantage of an intern in a blue dress with a cigar while on a work call on work property (and then fucking lie about it on national TV with a weepy straight face) or other Presidents to engage in similarly short sighted and self serving agendas…

I expect even less from USPSA.

I’d love it if we could have it. Arnburg is one of those guys who meet a high standard. He’s the exception rather than the rule.

But I don’t hold Stoeger and Derek blameless because if they didn’t have their campaign bathed in juvenile hyperbole, then Arnburg might still be able to do some good.

Basically they’re sabotaging progress to serve their scorched earth narrative and they don’t love the sport any more than the BOD.

So in my mind they’re both working for the detriment of the org.

I don’t vote for the other area directors and they’re as much out of my control as Stoeger and Derek.

[Lon]

Newest map.

113291

It’s a live map and updates regularly. https://www.practicalshootinginsights.com

[RJ]

Dayum. That’s a lot of torches and pitchforks agathering.