FBI approves Aimpoint Duty

[Tokarev]

https://soldiersystems.net/2023/12/21/fbi-selects-aimpoint-duty-rds-and-aimpoint-compm4s-for-rifle-red-dot-sights-and-mounts-program/

Not surprisingly since the Duty would seem to be Aimpoint's answer to the SIG Romeo 4M and T.

I like the selectable reticle option of the Romeo and am intrigued by the concept of the new AAA powered SIG. But for essentially the same money the Aimpoint is going to a sort of unvetted optic but from a well vetted company.

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[davisj]

For what it’s worth, I sold my Duty RDS and replaced with the Sig 4XT Pro. No comparison between the two. I have astigmatism and the Duty looked like a bunch of grapes, the 4XT Pro is round, perfectly so with a 3X magnifier behind it. In fact, I bought another 4XT recently. IMO superior lense and dot quality.

[Tokarev]

For what it’s worth, I sold my Duty RDS and replaced with the Sig 4XT Pro. No comparison between the two. I have astigmatism and the Duty looked like a bunch of grapes, the 4XT Pro is round, perfectly so with a 3X magnifier behind it. In fact, I bought another 4XT recently. IMO superior lense and dot quality.I actually like the idea of the 4XT. No unnecessary solar panel and what looks like solid build quality. Plus a common mounting footprint with plenty of options.

The Duty will arguably be generally higher quality. Or at least from a company with a good track record of QC.

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[Beat Trash]

For what it’s worth, I sold my Duty RDS and replaced with the Sig 4XT Pro. No comparison between the two. I have astigmatism and the Duty looked like a bunch of grapes, the 4XT Pro is round, perfectly so with a 3X magnifier behind it. In fact, I bought another 4XT recently. IMO superior lense and dot quality.

Thanks for sharing the information about the Sig 4XT Pro and a magnifier playing well with your astigmatism As my eyes have matured, I've developed an astigmatism. I've been curious to see how this optic works under magnification with astigmatism. My Aimpoint T2 is workable for me with a 3x. My older Aimpoint T1's and Trijicon MRO's look like a fuzzy kidney bean to me when used with a 3x.

What kind of magnifier are you using with your Sig 4XT Pro?

[davisj]

Primary Arms Pegasus. I don’t run it this tight, was checking to see how closely they meet. I run the 3X in this location and the 4XT as far forward on the receiver as possible. Both are on 1.93 mounts and the 3X is a flip to side.

112903

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[davisj]

Thanks for sharing the information about the Sig 4XT Pro and a magnifier playing well with your astigmatism As my eyes have matured, I've developed an astigmatism. I've been curious to see how this optic works under magnification with astigmatism. My Aimpoint T2 is workable for me with a 3x. My older Aimpoint T1's and Trijicon MRO's look like a fuzzy kidney bean to me when used with a 3x.

What kind of magnifier are you using with your Sig 4XT Pro?

It’s my understanding the emitter on the 4XT is located differently than Aimpoints which explains why the dot appears, at least to my eyes, as freakishly perfectly round. I don’t recall where I read or heard that.

[Tokarev]

I wonder how the 4XT might work as a primary optic paired with something like the Primary Arms 3x prism as secondary. The 4XT is fairly flat on the left side so it might be possible to tuck the 3x in tight with a Forward Controls parallel mount. I don't think the Duty would work as well since the controls are on the left and would potentially be blocked by the optic.

I may have to play with this idea...

[Beat Trash]

You guys are about to cost me money...

[davisj]

I wonder how the 4XT might work as a primary optic paired with something like the Primary Arms 3x prism as secondary. The 4XT is fairly flat on the left side so it might be possible to tuck the 3x in tight with a Forward Controls parallel mount. I don't think the Duty would work as well since the controls are on the left and would potentially be blocked by the optic.

I may have to play with this idea...

Similar concept to the video in this thread? Video is Tactical Rifleman.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?58795-RDS-as-primary-3-5X-Microprism-offset

[Tokarev]

Similar concept to the video in this thread? Video is Tactical Rifleman.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?58795-RDS-as-primary-3-5X-Microprism-offsetYes. That's what I'm thinking. But without the 45° offset.

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[HCM]

https://soldiersystems.net/2023/12/21/fbi-selects-aimpoint-duty-rds-and-aimpoint-compm4s-for-rifle-red-dot-sights-and-mounts-program/

Not surprisingly since the Duty would seem to be Aimpoint's answer to the SIG Romeo 4M and T.

I like the selectable reticle option of the Romeo and am intrigued by the concept of the new AAA powered SIG. But for essentially the same money the Aimpoint is going to a sort of unvetted optic but from a well vetted company.

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The Bureau went from the Aimpoint H2/T2 to the SIG in 2016/17 due to cost.

At the time SIG did not have their facility in Oregon and played purchase rule games with “assembled in USA” by essentially having a Chinese maker, build the Romo for M as parts kits, which were then imported and assembled by a US electronics company in California. There were some initial problems with the mounts and mount screws supplied with the early Romo 4M. The Romo 4M worked well when it worked. However, some of them would seemingly die at random. The circle dot reticle was particularly popular with those who had used EoTechs.

For this latest round of testing. Submitted the duty and the Comp M4S, both of which passed and received contracts.

My understanding is the Trijicon RMR HD and MRO were also approved as carbine optics. Not sure if either will get a contract. I’m also not sure how the MRO passed given its history of parallax issues.

If they continue to follow past practice, the aim points will be added to guns as they are built or rebuilt. Existing H1/T1, H2/T2, and SIG optics will continue in service along side the new optics for some time.

My agency has been issuing the Romo for as a carbon optic for a couple years now, and we’ve been pleased with it.

Limited experience with the SIG 4XT. It seems OK for daytime use, it has a separate series of daylight and low light settings like an EoTech. However, unlike an EO Tech, if you switch out of night Vision mode and then come back, it does not retain your exact setting. It has 10 daytime and 10 night vision settings. If you’re on night Vision setting seven and you switch modes when you return, it will automatically go to setting 10. If you were on a setting in the lower half of the night vision range, you switch and come back it will not come back to your old setting, but will instead go automatically to the lowest setting.

[El Cid]

You guys are about to cost me money...

Right?!

Anyone know how the Romeo 4T is doing in the field? I think I’d prefer the coin battery after seeing how longitudinal batteries did in EOTechs. I’m looking for an optic for my 1301 and prefer a circle dot option.

[HCM]

Right?!

Anyone know how the Romeo 4T is doing in the field? I think I’d prefer the coin battery after seeing how longitudinal batteries did in EOTechs. I’m looking for an optic for my 1301 and prefer a circle dot option.

We’ve been issuing the 4T for about 3 years now since Aimpoint discontinued our previously H-1s.

Several thousand in use, No issues.

It’s usable for passive aiming under NVG but technically not NVG rated.

I know someone who has an early 4T on a 9mm pistol used for competition with about 10k rounds on it. That’s more of a torture test then it will ever see on a long gun.

[El Cid]

We’ve been issuing the 4T for about 3 years now since Aimpoint discontinued our previously H-1s.

Several thousand in use, No issues.

It’s usable for passive aiming under NVG but technically not NVG rated.

I know someone who has an early 4T on a 9mm pistol used for competition with about 10k rounds on it. That’s more of a torture test then it will ever see on a long gun.

They have this on a pistol? Is it on a 6 Second Mount?

https://www.primaryarms.com/sig-sauer-romeo-4t-pro-red-dot-sight-quad-reticle-fde

[HCM]

They have this on a pistol? Is it on a 6 Second Mount?

https://www.primaryarms.com/sig-sauer-romeo-4t-pro-red-dot-sight-quad-reticle-fde

That, but with the proper circle dot reticle, not that quad Plex.

And no, not on a six second mount it’s on a slide. Running it on six second mount would be irrelevant re: durability.

There are multiple options for running a T1 pattern on a slide. RCS Balor, ATOM, Agency AOS etc.

In the early days of pistol optics, there were only serious three options: RMR, Leupold, and T1.

Before the days of enclosed pistol optics, some people thought the T1 had an advantage for finding the dot due to the “scope shadow” provided by the tube.

The problem with the T1 on a reciprocating slide is the forces break the internals of the rotating brightness adjustment knob.

However, SIG, Holosun, and PA micro pattern optics with buttons don’t have that problem.

I think I still have a T1 pattern Balor mount somewhere.

[Jimichanga]

Right?!

Anyone know how the Romeo 4T is doing in the field? I think I’d prefer the coin battery after seeing how longitudinal batteries did in EOTechs. I’m looking for an optic for my 1301 and prefer a circle dot option.

I've had one on my work carbine for a couple of years. I like the reticle options, the battery life and it holds zero. No complaints here. I've had pretty good luck with Sig electro-optics products I've spent my money on. Sights, range finders and whatnot (edited to add Romeo Zero is garbage... but that is a different thread).

[Tokarev]

Right?!

Anyone know how the Romeo 4T is doing in the field? I think I’d prefer the coin battery after seeing how longitudinal batteries did in EOTechs. I’m looking for an optic for my 1301 and prefer a circle dot option.

We have a couple hundred of these in my area. A few are on less lethal launchers. Most are on M4 carbines.

These are a mix of the older 4M and then newer 4T. I can't think of any 4M failures off the top of my head. We've had one 4T that lost its center dot so that only the circle would activate. We had one with a solar panel that got cracked somehow. This didn't seem to impact overall functionality. And we had one that simply quit working all together.

Everyone wants a T2 and I'd like to be able to provide them. But within my limited budget I think the 4T is a really good alternative.

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[Tokarev]

Similar concept to the video in this thread? Video is Tactical Rifleman.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?58795-RDS-as-primary-3-5X-Microprism-offsetI ordered the 5x prism and FCD parallel mount as a Christmas present for myself. I'll see how and if the concept works.

3x was my preference, being that it is a little smaller and lighter. It also has a bit more eye relief from reviews I've watched. The 3x is also $60 less expensive. With all these, I still went 5x because I think I'll prefer the ACSS Aurora reticle.

I think the idea will work although I'm curious to see how the offset optic will zero. If I have POA and POI set at 100 yards I assume impacts will be slightly left at everything from 0-100 and then slightly right after 100. How much is the question.

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[davisj]

I’ll be interested in your results. I currently have one rifle setup with a PA 3X Micro as primary and an EPS at 45 degree offset. The left-right shift closer and farther than zero distance will be interesting. On my setup the 3x is zeroed at 200, EPS at 50, not sure how I’d zero this concept.

[Tokarev]

I’ll be interested in your results. I currently have one rifle setup with a PA 3X Micro as primary and an EPS at 45 degree offset. The left-right shift closer and farther than zero distance will be interesting. On my setup the 3x is zeroed at 200, EPS at 50, not sure how I’d zero this concept.It might be possible to zero the 5x optic slightly left of POA so that windage POI stays more or less parallel to POA at all distances.

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[Tokarev]

So here it is mocked up on my SBR.

The eye relief could be a little better. Maybe I should have gone with a 3x. I have a very upright shooting stance and keep my head back aways on the stock. Moving my head over to the left without moving my head forward gives me not quite enough eye relief. Of course pushing my head forward or moving to a more bladed shooting stance puts me where I need to be.

The prism does block some field of view on the left. The windage knob also slightly obstructs the DPP's window a hair. Neither are probably a huge issue.

I think the concept has some merit and I can see it being quite practical on something with limited rail space. Maybe an AK side rail mount that might not otherwise have enough rail space for a scope or a dot and magnifier.

I don't know if I'll be able to shoot this coming weekend or not but I'll update when I can.
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[Tokarev]

I've been moving things around a bit. Maybe FCD is on to something with the idea of using the ACOG in the primary location.

Pairing the PA 5x and the FCD parallel plate takes up minimal rail space. Just eight slots in this case. The scope is easier to get behind quickly in the traditional spot and it doesn't seem too awkward with the red dot off to the left. I think it would just be a matter of practice to get comfortable with using the dot as the primary optic but in the secondary location. I'd guess also that the Aimpoint Duty is probably better able to handle some abuse and might actually provide a little protection to the PA Prism here. Note here that the Duty sits up high enough to see over the Prism illumination knob.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231229/fa5df1896ef435fddfc9a791cc0a90f9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231229/8247c91abe7d4c30b3b04a696855de50.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231229/1b0350e5d238ea02460ced82ff4c1993.jpg

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