Noise-cancelling ear-bud protection

[Stephanie B]

What are people liking for that, and why?

I'm hoping to shoot some more outdoor matches next year. A day in muffs is becoming less fun.

[Default.mp3]

Any particular reason you're after noise cancelling? I'm aware of a few shooting-oriented ear pro with noise cancelling, but they're all muffs.

[Clusterfrack]

I bought a pair of Axil XCOR (https://goaxil.com/pages/xcor) earbuds for $200 on a Black Friday deal. With properly-fitted foam inserts, I find them acceptable for high-round-count pistol shooting outdoors. I would not want to shoot more than a few unsuppressed rifle shots without more protection. The hearing enhancement is excellent, and battery life is ok as well.

[UncleGabby]

https://safariland.com/products/in-ear-impulse-hearing-protection-1304314

Is that the kind of thing you’re referring too? If so, I have these and have used them a few times at the range (aka the woods behind my uncle’s house). They seem to work as advertised, as in, I was comfortable when shooting pistols with them, and didn’t seem like I was yelling as much in casual conversation. When shooting long guns or at an indoor range I always double up. Serveral times I have only worn these when someone else was shooting a long gun (outdoors) and these seemed to offer adequate protection.

[JCN]

What are people liking for that, and why?

I'm hoping to shoot some more outdoor matches next year. A day in muffs is becoming less fun.

You have to define your terms.

There’s “active noise cancelation” like what high end electronics use.

But that’s not what muffs and shooting protection use (electronics aren’t fast enough for gunshots).

A lot of stuff advertises being “noise canceling” but it’s just noise dampening with electrical boost.

That’s how most electronic muffs work.

They cut all noise by 20-25 dB and then they pipe back sounds not to exceed an 85dB level from the speaker (so they compress the loud stuff).

But if you’re listening to a rifle shot at 160dB, it’s still at 140dB… not 85dB.

It doesn’t cut the 140dB to your ear down to 85.

It just doesn’t pipe in the noise electronically in addition.

[Archer1440]

Muffs are unpleasant in hot weather over a long day, for sure.

Outdoors, and not around open guns, the OTTO Noizebarrier with correct size Shure tips is my preferred solution. 37 db noise reduction on their own, and excellent fidelity. The case can literally go months between charges and the buds themselves will do 10 hour days, no problem.

The Axil Xcor is not nearly as good, with a late attack time (restoration of normal sound after the impulse) impeding conversation/scoring and terrible performance in the wind. Terrible battery performance if you turn on the Bluetooth function and it’s too easy to turn it on inadvertently- with no easy way to turn it back off- and the case is good for maybe two charges before needing to be recharged again. It is cheaper, so there’s that.

If you are around open guns, rifles, or anything concussive, you’re still going to need muffs. Bone conduction is a thing.

[Default.mp3]

Outdoors, and not around open guns, the OTTO Noizebarrier with correct size Shure tips is my preferred solution. 37 db noise reduction on their own, and excellent fidelity.FWIW, NRR rating is not a 1:1 dB reduction. Rather, the dB reduction is typically (NRR rating - 7) / 2.

I know that Shure straight up published it as just dB of isolation (I used Shures with olives as passive ear pro for awhile before I got real ear pro), so perhaps that rating really is a flat reduction, but I'm not really convinced, given that I do not feel that my Shures give noticeably better isolation than my AMP with the NFMI plugs, which only have an NRR of 34 (so a reduction of 13.5 dB).

[Archer1440]

FWIW, NRR rating is not a 1:1 dB reduction. Rather, the dB reduction is typically (NRR rating - 7) / 2.

I know that Shure straight up published it as just dB of isolation (I used Shures with olives as passive ear pro for awhile before I got real ear pro), so perhaps that rating really is a flat reduction, but I'm not really convinced, given that I do not feel that my Shures give noticeably better isolation than my AMP with the NFMI plugs, which only have an NRR of 34 (so a reduction of 13.5 dB).

I'm sure you're correct- this can be a deep rabbit hole when one considers frequency ranges and other variables. As a practical matter, it works for me. I can hear scores when being called from targets, conversation while shooting is going on, and while Open guns still are unpleasant to stand next to (as an RO), it does all I need for everything else I deal with, outdoors. I keep my Sordins on the cart to throw on overtop the OTTO's for the occasional open blaster.

[RJ]

Related, but gel ear seals can make a day wearing muffs slightly less a pain. I really like the Noisefighters I have on my Sordins.

Otherwise, following.

[Stephanie B]

Any particular reason you're after noise cancelling? I'm aware of a few shooting-oriented ear pro with noise cancelling, but they're all muffs.

Probably because I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. Maybe mixing up aviation and shooting uses? I've worn foam earplugs at outdoor matches, but then I'm often going "what?" in between stages or I pull them out and go through a few pairs. So I guess I'm looking for the lind that block loud sounds and yet let normal sounds pass.

[JCN]

Probably because I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. Maybe mixing up aviation and shooting uses? I've worn foam earplugs at outdoor matches, but then I'm often going "what?" in between stages or I pull them out and go through a few pairs. So I guess I'm looking for the lind that block loud sounds and yet let normal sounds pass.

They don’t let normal sounds pass…

They muffle sound and then electronically pipe sound back.

[Default.mp3]

Probably because I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. Maybe mixing up aviation and shooting uses? I've worn foam earplugs at outdoor matches, but then I'm often going "what?" in between stages or I pull them out and go through a few pairs. So I guess I'm looking for the lind that block loud sounds and yet let normal sounds pass.As noted by JCN, noise cancellation actually utilizes wavesforms that outright cancels out noises via destructive interference, and with today's technology, there isn't a feasible way to do that in a consumer product with how fast the impulse of a gunshot is, so yeah, noise cancellation is much more common in, say, aviation, since the drone of an aircraft engine is extremely steady and thus very easy to cancel out. The Safariland Liberators have noise cancellation, for example, to help with their use by folks that are also in vehicles all day, but that noise cancellation does not contribute in any meaningful way as hearing protection against gun shots.

For active ear pro that are also plugs, the most popular options seem to be the Peltor TEP-200 and OTTO NoizeBarrier Micro. The options by Axil seem to also get decent enough reviews, while the Peltor TEP-300 is probably the S tier option, albeit rather wasted if used just by themselves, IMO.

I'd also ask, what issues are you seeing with muffs? I've usually found that quality and well-fitted muffs alone are more comfortable than plugs alone to me, though I always strive to double up these days. The only downside of muffs running slightly hotter is actually mitigated by doubling up, IME, since now you can quite easily remove the muffs for a short period of time to wipe off the sweat or whatever.

[Erik]

I found the combination of Surefire ep3 and Sordins works well and allows me to hear what I need to. Howard Leight impacts with gel cushions would probably work just as well and be just as comfortable for less. I just didn't know about the gel cushion option when I was figuring this out, or it may have come along after.

[BN]

Probably because I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. Maybe mixing up aviation and shooting uses? I've worn foam earplugs at outdoor matches, but then I'm often going "what?" in between stages or I pull them out and go through a few pairs. So I guess I'm looking for the lind that block loud sounds and yet let normal sounds pass.

Here's a video explaining how the different types work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDWvW6iGWWE

I use Pro Ear Gold for muffs and ESP digital for ear plugs.

[JCN]

I used the Walkers digital plugs for years until they fell apart.

I’m using the Axil now but liked the Walkers 1.0s better (the 2.0 Walkers sucked ass).

The Axil has a cyclic clicking noise and more interference with other electronics.

But it’s good enough for the price.

I usually turn the electronic plugs up high and put passive muffs over them.

That way I can take off the muffs for comfort intermittently to give my head a break. I should try gel cups.

For those who use gel cups, do they help with eye pro ear stem pressure points?

[Erik]

For those who use gel cups, do they help with eye pro ear stem pressure points?

Yes, a lot.

[GyroF-16]

For those who use gel cups, do they help with eye pro ear stem pressure points?

Yes - they both reduce the pressure, and make a better seal around the stem. So more comfortable and better noise reduction due to both the seal and a denser material between the rigid part of the cups and your head.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I used electronic muffs in the TX inferno and just put up with it. Plugs in the ears for carbine matches - doubled up.

I've heard this, that with just plugs - bone conduction of sound impulses is destructive and that's why you need muffs over plugs for the long haul. Haven't researched the validity of this though. Got that from a nationally known trainer with EE background but not going to name, in case this is incorrect.

[AMC]

I really wanted the Axil plugs to work for me. First time I tried them I fired 3 quick shots, said "OW!!!!", and took them off and put the Peltors back on. Trying the different foam tips did absolutely nothing to change their effectiveness. They just did not fit my ear canals at all. Was like shooting with no ear pro on.

[Chuck Whitlock]

I love the idea of the gel cup seals, but am leery due to a silicone allergy. I have a permanent scar on the bridge of my nose from a gel CPAP mask.

[Cory]

If I could afford it I would use Harris and Sons. Custom molded to your ears, blutooth compatable. Turn them off, shoot. Turn them on, talk. And listen to music/take a call or whatever. Noise cancelling is cool, but halting the advance of my tinnitus and what not is more important to me.

I use walker muffs and turn them off when I shoot to give you a frame of reference.

[JCN]

Yes, a lot.


Yes - they both reduce the pressure, and make a better seal around the stem. So more comfortable and better noise reduction due to both the seal and a denser material between the rigid part of the cups and your head.

I just installed mine and WOW, I should have done this years ago!

Thanks for the advice!

I’m going to put a set on my daughter’s next.

[SeriousStudent]

I use Otto's based on the recommendation of Jackdog and others.

Not cheap, but very convenient and they work well with a pistol, shotgun or rifle.

https://www.otto-comm.com/NoizeBarrierMicro

Before that I used Sordin's. I also keep a pair of Walker in the ear plugs in the car, in case I need something and forgot my range bag.

[JCN]

I use Otto's based on the recommendation of Jackdog and others.

Not cheap, but very convenient and they work well with a pistol, shotgun or rifle.

https://www.otto-comm.com/NoizeBarrierMicro

Before that I used Sordin's. I also keep a pair of Walker in the ear plugs in the car, in case I need something and forgot my range bag.

Okay you enablers. :D

I did some Google Fu and found Optics Planet had a couple for sale on Gunbroker for $340.

https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search?Keywords=otto%20noizebarrier&Sort=13

I did the "take a shot" offer that was accepted at $330 so that price will likely be good for the remaining two sets they have there in case anyone else needs some good ol fashioned PF enabling.

[rdtompki]

Anyone with moderate hearing loss using the Otto's or similar? There are custom fit solutions which have a generic amplification profile, but they are in the $2k area. Muffs in hot weather are not fun, but I'm really looking for in-ear in cold weather so I can wear a balaclava or similar. I wear muffs with the electronics off; my hearing aides provide enough amplification to communicate and hear steel. A generic in-ear solution could be problematic; my left ear canal is very narrow and I've never found a bud that worked well on that ear.

[JCS]

Anyone with moderate hearing loss using the Otto's or similar? There are custom fit solutions which have a generic amplification profile, but they are in the $2k area. Muffs in hot weather are not fun, but I'm really looking for in-ear in cold weather so I can wear a balaclava or similar. I wear muffs with the electronics off; my hearing aides provide enough amplification to communicate and hear steel. A generic in-ear solution could be problematic; my left ear canal is very narrow and I've never found a bud that worked well on that ear.

Soundgear are sub 1k if you go with the non Bluetooth models. They are custom molded electronic ear pro, basically hearing aids with ear protection.

[ECK]

I wore SoundGears for almost 10 years. My insurance considers them hearing aids, so they were covered. Worked fine except when around Open shooters with popple holes and comps. Especially in a shoot house style stage with solid walls/roof. When RO-ing major matches I usually throw on a pair of Peltors over the SoundGear whenever an Open shooter walks up.

That said, something weird happened in the last couple of years -I think the shape of my inner ear changed to the point where I wasn’t getting a good seal with the SoundGears despite being custom molded. Is this what happens when you get old, need shingles shot, colonoscopies, and can’t trust a fart anymore? After all, I was already buying hearing aid batteries and getting AARP stuff in the mail…

Friend of mine was running Otto’s w/ after-market brand foam inserts. I almost went that route but decided to get the Axil Xcors (half price of the Ottos) to test out. I went with the same brand of after-market foamies. My rationale was two-fold: The Axils had an equivalent NRR (with the right foam inserts) as the Ottos, but unlike the Ottos they are blue-tooth capable. My Jabras ear buds that I use to listen to podcasts and music on my phone died around the same time, and near as I could figure the Axil Xcrors could do dual duty of being ear pods for my phone and be hearing pro at the range. The Ottos (at least the ones I looked at) are not blue-tooth capable.

So far so good with the Axils. I can even wear them shooting PRS rifle matches even with everyone running brakes. RO-ing Open shooters at the range is fine, but I’d probably still double up with Peltors if RO-ing all day at a big match. And with the sound enhancement feature turned on I can hear people talking at the range no problem (i.e. calling scores).

And they work just fine as earbuds.

Comply Foam is the name of the after-market brand foamies. You can get them on Amazon. They make different models depending on the brand of ear buds/pro (Ottos, Axil, SkullCandy, Bose…)

[Jackdog]

I’ve been using Sordins since 20212. They are great! But around 2020 I noticed that when I shot rifles or shotguns by ear pro would be dislodged when shouldering the stock. It was really noticeable when shooting my 1301 with magpul stock with the high riser. I was less than happy with this occurrence and the ringing ear after a range day.

At TacCon 2021 a couple of friends were using the Ottos and one of them let me use them in a shooting block. When I got off the range I promptly order a pair. I’ve been using the Ottos for 2.5 years now and I’m really pleased with. I not change unless something better comes along.


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[Gio]

Slightly off topic, but I've been doubling up ear pro for years and found this works best for me. I'm around a lot of shooting. Both at USPSA and other competitive matches, my own training (~15k rounds per year), and running law enforcement classes, qualifications, and range days. I'm simply around too much shooting to not make it worth doubling up.

I prefer to use an ear plug like the Surefire sonic defenders or just foam plugs combined with an electronic ear muff like the Tactical Sport 300/500 Peltors. For the money, the Tactical Sport 300/500's are very comfortable compared to howard leights, walkers, peltor 100's, etc. The sound enhancement turned to max volume with the outer ear muffs allows me to hear normal conversations on the range, which would be difficult with just ear plugs by themselves.

I have never confirmed this, but I had also heard from an agency doc that you can get hearing loss through the side of your skull from the concussive blast of shooting, especially in close proximity to the short barreled M4's we use, and outer ear muffs protect better against that than ear plugs.

[Default.mp3]

I have never confirmed this, but I had also heard from an agency doc that you can get hearing loss through the side of your skull from the concussive blast of shooting, especially in close proximity to the short barreled M4's we use, and outer ear muffs protect better against that than ear plugs.That's called conductive hearing loss. I remember TLG even mentioning at the AFHF I was that that he not only wore muffs, but also a ballcap, to help mitigate this issue. I'm not totally sure how much a ballcap might help, given how thin the hat material is and that it arguably can crack the seal on muffs slightly more, depending on the cup/hat interface, but conductive hearing loss is definitely a thing.

[41magfan]

I wanted something for hunting purposes, so I bought OTTO's for the "natural sound" feature.

My first set of OTTO NoizeBarrier Micro's (purchased in Nov 2020) crapped out after one month of daily use when they stopped holding a charge for more than 4-5 hrs. (They claim up to 16 hrs of continuous use in the specs). OTTO replaced them promptly and the replacement set made it through the remaining 2020 season and all of the 2021 season without any drama. The 2022 hunting season was also uneventful, so I figured that first set was a "lemon".

When I brought them out for the 2023 season in November, again I immediately experienced a failure to hold a charge for more than 4-5 hrs. I returned them to OTTO in late November 2023 for repair and/or replacement, but I haven't heard back from them as of today.

When they work, they're the bomb for hunting purposes, but I suspect this technology might not be ready for prime time. If this latest set isn't replaced under warranty, this will turn out to be an costly experiment that I will not repeat.

[JCN]

I wanted something for hunting purposes, so I bought OTTO's for the "natural sound" feature.

My first set of OTTO NoizeBarrier Micro's (purchased in Nov 2020) crapped out after one month of daily use when they stopped holding a charge for more than 4-5 hrs. (They claim up to 16 hrs of continuous use in the specs). OTTO replaced them promptly and the replacement set made it through the remaining 2020 season and all of the 2021 season without any drama. The 2022 hunting season was also uneventful, so I figured that first set was a "lemon".

When I brought them out for the 2023 season in November, again I immediately experienced a failure to hold a charge for more than 4-5 hrs. I returned them to OTTO in late November 2023 for repair and/or replacement, but I haven't heard back from them as of today.

When they work, they're the bomb for hunting purposes, but I suspect this technology might not be ready for prime time. If this latest set isn't replaced under warranty, this will turn out to be an costly experiment that I will not repeat.

I think they’re expecting more stock in February which is what they told me.

I bought a set from Optics Planet for $370 but it turned out to be a demo model that one of the buds didn’t work at all. They offered me $50 back.

Otto is replacing the buds under warranty so it worked out but they’re currently out.