IDPA new 2024 rule book: holsters

[JCN]

CraigS

https://www.idpa.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/2024-IDPA-Rulebook-Master-12-14-23.pdf

[jetfire]

CraigS

https://www.idpa.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/2024-IDPA-Rulebook-Master-12-14-23.pdf

There were a couple of people who got hemmed up at Nationals for holsters that the MD felt weren't "suitable for every day carry" which was subjective. A 3 inch limit seems a lot more reasonable, although it does mean fat guys can wear holsters with a greater offset

[GyroF-16]

I’m a current IDPA member and SO.

Why the F#@* do I have to learn that there’s a new rulebook from a post on P-F?

I’d think that an email with an attached PDF to all current members would be the norm, or at least to current SO’s who are expected to know and enforce the rules.

/rant

Is there a list of changes somewhere?

[JCN]

I’m a current IDPA member and SO.

Why the F#@* do I have to learn that there’s a new rulebook from a post on P-F?

I’d think that an email with an attached PDF to all current members would be the norm, or at least to current SO’s who are expected to know and enforce the rules.

/rant

But it’s not the actual rule book for another two weeks…

And it’s IDPA lol.

Half the existing members still think you can’t drop a mag with one in the pipe and another 25% still think AIWB is going to shoot their dicks off.

I have a female friend and it looks like the angled BOSS joint without spacer might work and I am taking it to mean 3” from the outside top of slide dimension because obviously the butt is going to be farther than 3” unless you have a curved gun.

[GyroF-16]

But it’s not the actual rule book for another two weeks…

And it’s IDPA lol.

Half the existing members still think you can’t drop a mag with one in the pipe and another 25% still think AIWB is going to shoot their dicks off.

I have a female friend and it looks like the angled BOSS joint without spacer might work and I am taking it to mean 3” from the outside top of slide dimension because obviously the butt is going to be farther than 3” unless you have a curved gun.

It’s a measurement of the holster itself, doesn’t address the gun at all:

“may not protrude more than 3" (7.62cm) out from the shooter's body as measured from the from the body, at the top of the belt, to the outside of the holster (see Figure 3 below)“

[GyroF-16]

Found a list of changes:

https://www.idpa.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/2024-Rulebook-changes.pdf

[JCN]

It’s a measurement of the holster itself, doesn’t address the gun at all:

“may not protrude more than 3" (7.62cm) out from the shooter's body as measured from the from the body, at the top of the belt, to the outside of the holster (see Figure 3 below)“

That’s true!

[CraigS]

Wow all this stuff they have been changing over the last 2 years and now they come up w/ a max offset of 3 inches. Dang I think I could use a 1 inch spacer between holster body and mount. And then they show a picture of a holster w/ a gun in it so you can't actually see how far the holster is offset. Oh well, at least there is a max and a very easy way to measure it. I doubt there will be problems staying within the 3inches. Anyone see anything about thigh straps? I guess they wouldn't be concealed unless you wore a really long coat so not legal?

[Noah]

I just got the email from IDPA HQ

[MVS]

I think that 3 inches for what IDPA claims to be is far too generous but at least it will be clear and easy to make the call now.

[JCN]

I think that 3 inches for what IDPA claims to be is far too generous but at least it will be clear and easy to make the call now.

I dunno. Some guns are pretty thick and the holster measurement encompasses the entire width of the gun as well.

Plus it’s not like it’s going to matter much in reality.

From concealed draw.

[Erick Gelhaus]

I just got the email from IDPA HQ

Yes, it went out by e-mail and at least on the Book of Faces yesterday morning.

[gtmtnbiker98]

People still shoot IDPA?

[JCN]

People still shoot IDPA?

I know you’re joking, but I feel like there are some distinct benefits and challenges to shooting IDPA at larger matches.

1. Round count accountability. You can’t take make up shots willy nilly like in high cap USPSA.

2. Plan switching requirements. While gaming is silly, managing round counts and positions means that there are mental processing requirements beyond just shooting. The cognitive loading is different and in some ways more nuanced than what I need in USPSA. For example there was a stage I shot that depending on if you made up any shots in the first position you’d go right and have to dump one shot. If you didn’t miss, you’d go left first. While kind of an artificial gaming thing, the cognitive loading and decision making is good practice.

3. Props. Again can be silly, but the opportunity to do more car and barricade work than we traditionally see in USPSA is a lot of fun.

So yes. I shoot IDPA and I shoot USPSA. I like them both for different things.

With the circumscribed shooting positions, footwork isn’t as important in IDPA, which puts more emphasis on the shooting part.

So it’s a different type of test.

I also shoot AIWB from concealment which is a nice change of pace.

[Mirolynmonbro]

People still shoot IDPA?

Interests
SIG firearms and IDPA.

[gtmtnbiker98]

Interests
SIG firearms and IDPA.

Relax, it was a joke.

[CraigS]

My wife uses this holster mount and a DIY kydex holster. Dang, strapped it on yesterday and the holster is too far offset by about 3/8". Fortunately she only shoots at our IWLA action pistol matches where they don't get real concerned about details. Lots of drop leg rigs, some w/ quick release setups which space the holster out an extra 1/4-1/2inch.
https://www.blackhawk.com/holsters/holster-accessories/mid-ride-duty-belt-loop/BH-44H902BK.html

[JCN]

CraigS any picture of the setup and the measurement? I’m surprised it doesn’t pass as that’s as slim of a mount as you can get.

Is it because that mount tends to tilt the gun outboard?

She might be able to do the same holster with a BOSS mount.

[CraigS]

That mount actually has a fair amount of offset in side view. Then the holster has some built-in offset too.
112798
I could re-do the holster and maybe get it within the 3 inches but for her at iwla it doesn't matter. I have one of the first shells I ever made w/ a lot less offset so I pulled it out of the box to mess with. But my pistols have an extended takedown lever that forms a 'gas pedal'. So I need some clearance.
112799
I have looked at the boss mounts which I like because of the superb adjustability in about every direction but so far I am not seeing an advantage. Over the last 2 years I have experimented a lot. I really like max drop and max offset but idpa is restricting that. This new max width I think is a good rule along w/ 'the butt must be above the belt' so easy to understand and measure. What I have found is, the more drop and/or offset, the more the holster tends to come away from the body at the bottom when overcoming any retention it has. The easy way to fix that is a thigh strap. BTW, for her, that is what we now have since iwla doesn't care. For me though, no strap, so the other way to fix it is a super stiff belt. I got one of the Shooters Connection 'idpa legal' belts and Bladetech hanger. Not useful though. It is basically a two belt system outer belt w/ less velcro. The belt is almost impossible to get through my usual Wrangler belt loops and the hanger is near impossible to get snapped on once the belt is in the pants. And it is even worse to try to release. Currently I am using a Blackhawk paddle mount w/ my diy shell mounted about 1 1/4 inches lower than normal. It isn't as low as I would prefer but it works. I use a Bullhide Belts heavy leather belt w/ steel inside. This combination along w/ virtually no retention works pretty well. Anyone having a recommendation for a better super stiff belt that can still be threaded through pants loops please chime in. And anyone w/ a mount similar to the Bladetech but able to be installed and removed w/ the belt in the loops also please chime in.

[jetfire]

3. Props. Again can be silly, but the opportunity to do more car and barricade work than we traditionally see in USPSA is a lot of fun.



One of the underrated advantages of IDPA, right here. Getting to shoot from seated positions, in real cars, around real world obstacles, pulling guns out of drawers and other places they often are in the real world, has real actual value for a lot of "average" CCW holders.

[Dark Star Gear]

One of the underrated advantages of IDPA, right here. Getting to shoot from seated positions, in real cars, around real world obstacles, pulling guns out of drawers and other places they often are in the real world, has real actual value for a lot of "average" CCW holders.

Not just that, but you can show up and shoot, anyone, without having to memorize a stage plan to be successful. It's simply more approachable.

[JCN]

Not just that, but you can show up and shoot, anyone, without having to memorize a stage plan to be successful. It's simply more approachable.

I'd wager most "successful" competitors are still memorizing stage plans, though.

And while there are more degrees of freedom to complicate USPSA stage plans, big match IDPA seems to have some stage memorization required as well.

I almost biffed this one, lol.


https://youtu.be/Wc3ZqKG4fpw?si=OQAwfU-tEd7JPaHh

[Dark Star Gear]

I'd wager most "successful" competitors are still memorizing stage plans, though.

And while there are more degrees of freedom to complicate USPSA stage plans, big match IDPA seems to have some stage memorization required as well.

I almost biffed this one, lol.


https://youtu.be/Wc3ZqKG4fpw?si=OQAwfU-tEd7JPaHh


They memorize 100%, but I'm more focused on the new shooters we need to get into what we do. Big IDPA matches get pretty involved.

[JCN]

They memorize 100%, but I'm more focused on the new shooters we need to get into what we do. Big IDPA matches get pretty involved.

This is a philosophical opinion only, but I feel newer action pistol shooters would actually be better served by starting with USPSA over IDPA….

[CraigS]

One of the underrated advantages of IDPA, right here. Getting to shoot from seated positions, in real cars, around real world obstacles, pulling guns out of drawers and other places they often are in the real world, has real actual value for a lot of "average" CCW holders.
Absolutely. A few months ago I picked up my pistol off the top of a barrel, shot once and.....It turned out that, as I grabbed it, I must have pushed it down a bit and the mag release activated. Fortunately the mag was still in the gun, just 1/2 inch too low. Another one we started seated in the old full size American van w/ gun on center console all windows and doors open, grab gun and shoot target through passenger front window, turn more and shoot out the right side door at a just off the ground target, turn left and shoot between driver door window frame and A piller. Finally get out of the van and shoot through the open driver door window at another target. Go around to the rear door and shoot through it and out the side door. Then shoot around the open rear right side door w/ a shooting position stick on the ground making it a bit of a stretch around the door at a target 30ft away. Sometimes we shoot from a chair at a table, under the van laying on a piece of carpet, or at 6 targets, (one shot each target w/ a shot string strong hand, a string weak hand, a string both hands, starting w/ 8 rnds in the gun, so order your strings to avoid reloading in weak hand string). One time they added to the 6 target stage. In addition to the above, one string had to be standing, one kneeling, and last string sitting on your butt. A good thing idpa did for us old guys and gals, any position other than standing has to be the last shots of the stage. That way the 'getting back up' part is off the timer and the SOs are always ready to lend a hand.

[Zincwarrior]

Absolutely. A few months ago I picked up my pistol off the top of a barrel, shot once and.....It turned out that, as I grabbed it, I must have pushed it down a bit and the mag release activated. Fortunately the mag was still in the gun, just 1/2 inch too low. Another one we started seated in the old full size American van w/ gun on center console all windows and doors open, grab gun and shoot target through passenger front window, turn more and shoot out the right side door at a just off the ground target, turn left and shoot between driver door window frame and A piller. Finally get out of the van and shoot through the open driver door window at another target. Go around to the rear door and shoot through it and out the side door. Then shoot around the open rear right side door w/ a shooting position stick on the ground making it a bit of a stretch around the door at a target 30ft away. Sometimes we shoot from a chair at a table, under the van laying on a piece of carpet, or at 6 targets, (one shot each target w/ a shot string strong hand, a string weak hand, a string both hands, starting w/ 8 rnds in the gun, so order your strings to avoid reloading in weak hand string). One time they added to the 6 target stage. In addition to the above, one string had to be standing, one kneeling, and last string sitting on your butt. A good thing idpa did for us old guys and gals, any position other than standing has to be the last shots of the stage. That way the 'getting back up' part is off the timer and the SOs are always ready to lend a hand.

USPSA does not have that sort of thing? Question not a criticism.

[CraigS]

USPSA does not have that sort of thing? Question not a criticism.
I have no idea. I shoot idpa.

[Zincwarrior]

I have no idea. I shoot idpa.

Yes, I have not attended a USPSA major.

[JCN]

USPSA does not have that sort of thing? Question not a criticism.

I think the design language of major USPSA events tend to be standardized, so less scenario odd stuff in general.

I don’t think I’ve seen cars nearly as often in USPSA major march videos as I have in IDPA.

[Mirolynmonbro]

USPSA does not have that sort of thing? Question not a criticism.

My club has monthly IDPA and USPSA. We have a car in front of one of the pistol bays. We drag the car into the bay for every IDPA match, but USPSA does not use it. So maybe it's not allowed?

[CraigS]

Getting way off subject here but some may enjoy this stage. Each year iwla (loosely idpa based) does a Battle of the Badges match. This year they had 2 stages w/ cars but w/ a twist. One stage had 2 cars nose to nose about 8ft apart. Start in the driver's seat of car 1 and shoot two targets standing just off each headlight...through the windshield. Out of the car, and, as you cross between the two hoods, shoot driver of car 2 through windshield. Continue toward the back of the car and shoot passenger in back seat through the LR window. Then continue to some more standard between walls shots. Beforehand I couldn't believe they were doing this but several of the guys are officers who said they train like this all the time. I was also surpised afterwards how well the glass held up to 80 shooters.

[Mirolynmonbro]

Getting way off subject here but some may enjoy this stage. Each year iwla (loosely idpa based) does a Battle of the Badges match. This year they had 2 stages w/ cars but w/ a twist. One stage had 2 cars nose to nose about 8ft apart. Start in the driver's seat of car 1 and shoot two targets standing just off each headlight...through the windshield. Out of the car, and, as you cross between the two hoods, shoot driver of car 2 through windshield. Continue toward the back of the car and shoot passenger in back seat through the LR window. Then continue to some more standard between walls shots. Beforehand I couldn't believe they were doing this but several of the guys are officers who said they train like this all the time. I was also surpised afterwards how well the glass held up to 80 shooters.

That sounds AMAZING

[CraigS]

I have been messing around trying different mounts for my diy kydex holster shells. And I keep picking up my ruler to check that 3inch measurement. I thought I liked that reg as it would be pretty cut and dried implementing it. Ahh, not so much. The main issue is how hard does one push in on the ruler? Even the skinniest guy w/ a light summer shirt could 'adjust' the ruler by 1/2inch easy. Now through at least the end of February, I will have on a t-shirt, and a heavy chamois shirt, and flannel lined jeans + my own built-in insulation. Heck I can 'adjust' the ruler over easily an inch and maybe 1.25 inches. Maybe I should use a tape measure like the illustration since that would be more difficult to push than a ruler. I messed w/ making my own 1/8" kydex mount but I decided to stick w/ a readily available mount to try to minimize questions. I am glad I only shoot local club matches. This summer it will be interesting to talk to guys who shoot higher level matches to see how they check the 3inch measurement, of if they even do check it..

[DAB]

as an IDPA SO, there is no way i'm going to worry about this 3" rule for local matches. we want people to show up, be safe, have fun shooting, and come back again. if they start talking about shooting a major match, i'll counsel them to check their gear before showing up to that match. so much for the 1 inch dowel....

[GyroF-16]

as an IDPA SO, there is no way i'm going to worry about this 3" rule for local matches. we want people to show up, be safe, have fun shooting, and come back again. if they start talking about shooting a major match, i'll counsel them to check their gear before showing up to that match. so much for the 1 inch dowel....

I’m with you on all of the above.
And I thought the dowel rule made sense, as it quantified and limited ”offset” that was unhelpful for concealing a weapon and only useful for “gaming”.

[DAB]

now, if they show up with a Serpa holster, we're going to have a short conversation about safety and finger placement.

if you want to be a "gamer", great, go for it. if you want to test your daily carry rig and your ability, great, go for it. those two shooter types are not going to finish that close together. most stages are long enough that a 1/2 second saved or spent on the draw will not make much difference in your final score. you have 18 shots to get off, 3 points of cover, some running around to do, movers to wait on.....

and what really gets me is the "new gamer" with his fancy gear, shooting the lights out....and then scoring begins, and he's 15 down for the stage. slow down son, get zeros and your score will be better. let's watch one of our "old farts" shoot the stage and be 2 down total, and still beat your score.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Serpas are truly scary for new folks. We had a newby and he could just not release the gun and his finger was heading for the trigger when he did. The SO told him to STOP! Also, there were several NDs with them.

The divide between a gaming and an SD realistic rig orientation is just the way it is nowadays. In club matches, get what you can out of the experience. I do worry that the game orientation discourages some folks from joining in. There needs to be a competition version of pickle ball.

[NETim]

Serpas are truly scary for new folks. We had a newby and he could just not release the gun and his finger was heading for the trigger when he did. The SO told him to STOP! Also, there were several NDs with them.

The divide between a gaming and an SD realistic rig orientation is just the way it is nowadays. In club matches, get what you can out of the experience. I do worry that the game orientation discourages some folks from joining in. There needs to be a competition version of pickle ball.

I am going to try to do just that at my local club this year. I am hoping to create a safe, informal, fun yet educational environment. It will heavily emphasize accuracy. I'm not sure what kind of turnout I'll get though. I'm also going to have a standard drill thrown in after the 2-3 simple stages I envision. El Prez's, Casinos, etc. Semi and revo divisions. Only two categories, youngsters and geezers (since I will be the MD.)

Going to use this target: https://shootsteel.com/product/cardboard-training-targets-pack-of-100/

[Jim Watson]

Some ranges disallow Serpa and similar, or require the latch to be removed or wedged open.

I saw a cop who had recently chosen one for off duty wear give himself a wedgie when he missed or forgot the latch at the buzzer and yanked futilely at his pistol.

[JCN]

I am going to try to do just that at my local club this year. I am hoping to create a safe, informal, fun yet educational environment. It will heavily emphasize accuracy. I'm not sure what kind of turnout I'll get though. I'm also going to have a standard drill thrown in after the 2-3 simple stages I envision. El Prez's, Casinos, etc. Semi and revo divisions. Only two categories, youngsters and geezers (since I will be the MD.)

Going to use this target: https://shootsteel.com/product/cardboard-training-targets-pack-of-100/

Consider using the PCSL target instead:

https://supervelammunition.com/pcsl-k-zone-target/

It has a much smaller scoring zone than IDPA and USPSA

[NETim]

Consider using the PCSL target instead:

https://supervelammunition.com/pcsl-k-zone-target/

It has a much smaller scoring zone than IDPA and USPSA

Hmm... thank you! Looking at that target though, I feel the "A" zone is too generous. I'd be tempted to draw a line across the neck/body line and reduce the "A" even more. Easily done though.

[JCN]

Hmm... thank you! Looking at that target though, I feel the "A" zone is too generous. I'd be tempted to draw a line across the neck/body line and reduce the "A" even more. Easily done though.

In reality, it winds up being reasonably small.

Because the chest A zone is just a little larger than 6x6.

If people go too fast, then they miss over shoulders.

It works pretty well in reality.

And the whole target is about 1/2 the height of a traditional USPSA / IDPA target.

[JCN]

NETim

113710

[Bucky]

This is a philosophical opinion only, but I feel newer action pistol shooters would actually be better served by starting with USPSA over IDPA….

Having started new shooters in both, I’d have to agree.

[ragnar_d]

Serpas are truly scary for new folks. We had a newby and he could just not release the gun and his finger was heading for the trigger when he did. The SO told him to STOP! Also, there were several NDs with them.

The divide between a gaming and an SD realistic rig orientation is just the way it is nowadays. In club matches, get what you can out of the experience. I do worry that the game orientation discourages some folks from joining in. There needs to be a competition version of pickle ball.
There's part of me that really liked GSSF matches for that. I had already started in USPSA by the time I shot some of those matches, but the environment seemed very friendly to those starting out. Being able to buy a Glock and blue label prices and the random giveaways just sweetens the pot.

[jetfire]

USPSA does not have that sort of thing? Question not a criticism.

This is a complex answer - because IDPA is scenario based at its core, it tends to lean towards including real world props when possible. USPSA is sport-driven culturally, so it eschews things like "holding a baby" or "open a car door" in favor tasks that isolated to the sport. For example, in USPSA matches I've had to pull a rope to open a port which forces SHO firing. In an IDPA match, that task might be forced by having me hold a simulated baby or something.

There's nothing in the USPSA rulebook that I'm aware of that specifically disallows using real world props and stuff, but culturally there's a significant difference.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

At IDPA, we did save the baby, doors, etc. Did that once in USPSA. The folks were totally into unrealistic baby holding in order not to lose time. At Givens, we did save the baby and get it behind a truck. I've posted that picture before. One well known trainer got negative points for tossing the baby like Tom Brady behind the truck for a distance so he could get his two handed hold back.

I agree that in most USPSA, anything that diverts from trying to shave time from standard run and gun is frowned upon. It is not a SD oriented game. We did have a match director set up a narrow plank way that you would have to walk down to shoot through various portals or 'doorways'. However, it was determined that the old folk set did not have to 'walk the plank' as a fall might occur, knees were shot or bones were titanium.

[GyroF-16]

This is a complex answer - because IDPA is scenario based at its core, it tends to lean towards including real world props when possible. USPSA is sport-driven culturally, so it eschews things like "holding a baby" or "open a car door" in favor tasks that isolated to the sport. For example, in USPSA matches I've had to pull a rope to open a port which forces SHO firing. In an IDPA match, that task might be forced by having me hold a simulated baby or something.

There's nothing in the USPSA rulebook that I'm aware of that specifically disallows using real world props and stuff, but culturally there's a significant difference.

FWIW (since the thread title does reference the IDPA rulebook)-
For several years now, IDPA rules say that the shooter cannot be penalized for not doing any “non-shooting activities.”
To quote the first paragraph in chapter 5:
“After the start signal, penalties for non-shooting actions may not be issued to competitors for their performance on a stage.”

So there’s no more carrying babies or dragging dummies required. Creative stage designers can certainly make props that activate targets, so that shooters need to move them in order to complete the stage, though.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Didn't know that. We dragged bodies and had to carry brief cases filled with secret papers and diamonds. I got a penalty for ditching the brief case once. More moving to the time game, I suppose.

I designed a body drag that was a trap for right hands (revenge of the leftists handers). A friend got all turned around, face us with his gun. Oops, just packed up and left the match. Yes, the correct manipulation had nothing to do with 'game' time.

Haven't shot IDPA for awhile, it's an hour and half away and I need to stay closer to home - USPSA is twenty minutes away. Just draw and try to hit the targets well for me with a close to EDC gun.

[jetfire]

FWIW (since the thread title does reference the IDPA rulebook)-
For several years now, IDPA rules say that the shooter cannot be penalized for not doing any “non-shooting activities.”
To quote the first paragraph in chapter 5:
“After the start signal, penalties for non-shooting actions may not be issued to competitors for their performance on a stage.”

So there’s no more carrying babies or dragging dummies required. Creative stage designers can certainly make props that activate targets, so that shooters need to move them in order to complete the stage, though.

There's still some of that stuff, but to your point you can't get penalized for "carrying the baby wrong" like you could back in the old days.

[Erick Gelhaus]

now, if they show up with a Serpa holster, we're going to have a short conversation about safety and finger placement.

Despite all of the orgs & instructors that have banned them, the number of people who still think they're cool and use them never ceases to amaze to me.

[feudist]

Serpas are truly scary for new folks. We had a newby and he could just not release the gun and his finger was heading for the trigger when he did. The SO told him to STOP! Also, there were several NDs with them.

The divide between a gaming and an SD realistic rig orientation is just the way it is nowadays. In club matches, get what you can out of the experience. I do worry that the game orientation discourages some folks from joining in. There needs to be a competition version of pickle ball.

But I thought IDP-uh, why is it called a SERPA?

[GyroF-16]

There's still some of that stuff, but to your point you can't get penalized for "carrying the baby wrong" like you could back in the old days.

Probably still at local club matches, but I’m pretty certain it’s not happening at regional and national matches.

[jetfire]

Probably still at local club matches, but I’m pretty certain it’s not happening at regional and national matches.

Last year I shot 4 or 5 State/Regional matches and Worlds. I carried a briefcase at one of them, because it was the only way to activate a mover at P3, and the case was at P1. At another one I had to throw a 40lb “pig” into a pen to activate another mover.

Worlds was actually pretty tame when it came to weird props, but clever stage designers are still finding ways to force that sort of stuff. I like it, personally.

[GyroF-16]

Last year I shot 4 or 5 State/Regional matches and Worlds. I carried a briefcase at one of them, because it was the only way to activate a mover at P3, and the case was at P1. At another one I had to throw a 40lb “pig” into a pen to activate another mover.

Worlds was actually pretty tame when it came to weird props, but clever stage designers are still finding ways to force that sort of stuff. I like it, personally.

Oh, I like it too. Just didn’t want others reading this to have an inaccurate impression of how it’s working these days.

[CraigS]

I like all the weird stuff. Today's match was very plain. One popper that activated a drop and turn target. 3 stages where we shot 3 targets, moved 2 steps sideways and shot 3 more. It was fine but not exciting at all. Give me a van to shoot through or around and a baby doll to 'save' any day. Except next week it is supposed to be 20F degrees so I actually hope we have stages like today. At the idpa affiliated club (today) all the rigs are pretty much idpa legal standard hip holsters. Next week we will see more battle belts and drop leg holsters. I have played around a lot w/ drop and offset holsters and I am finally of the opinion that they don't really do much. I am sure there are some 1/10s of a second there but, at my skill level, a tenth isn't going to matter. I don't even drop mine as much as is legal. The butt of my pistol is 1-1.25 inch above the belt. I find that if I drop it further, then my thumb is really not able to get far enough around toward it's position on the gun. I'd rather have an 90% grip before the gun leaves the holster than a lower holster that only allows a 75% grip.

[DAB]

stages with "weird" stuff, lots of steel and movers, are indeed fun to shoot, but they take longer to reset, and you can get failures (poppers don't fall when properly hit, or fall without being hit - wind), or movers that don't properly move when they should. and then you have to give a re-shoot, which only slows down things further.

the last few IDPA nationals they have limited the number of poppers and movers to keep things moving along so shooters don't finish under the lights. so the 'weird' might work well for a local match, where getting done at 2pm versus 1pm is not a big deal, but for larger matches, it can throw a wrench in the match works. normally not worth the risk.

there are plenty of ways to challenge shooters without having to worry about spiking the baby into the blue barrel.

[cyberiad]

and what really gets me is the "new gamer" with his fancy gear, shooting the lights out....and then scoring begins, and he's 15 down for the stage. slow down son, get zeros and your score will be better. let's watch one of our "old farts" shoot the stage and be 2 down total, and still beat your score.

He press checked twice before starting the stage, right? And I bet when he was done shooting during unload and show clear he ejected the chambered round 4 feet in the air and caught it?

[CraigS]

We had a stage last fall w/ a popper that had to drop on a cable to activate a mover. A guy shot at the popper, hit it right at the edge of one side, so it dropped but twisted and did not hit the cable. So we pasted and reset and he asked if he could go again after everyone else. Well crap, on the guy's second try there was another problem w/ the popper. I don't remember the details now but the SO was a prick and the guy got no score for the stage. I don't mind poppers and single swingers, but Tx stars, double swingers, etc are heavy and awkward to move, set up and take down.

[Zincwarrior]

Last year I shot 4 or 5 State/Regional matches and Worlds. I carried a briefcase at one of them, because it was the only way to activate a mover at P3, and the case was at P1. At another one I had to throw a 40lb “pig” into a pen to activate another mover.

Worlds was actually pretty tame when it came to weird props, but clever stage designers are still finding ways to force that sort of stuff. I like it, personally.

Yes, the secret is to have stage designs/props that the shooter has to manipulate for a door or something to open. Even without that, there are quite a few scenario things you can do in stages that make them fun.

[leekellerking]

now, if they show up with a Serpa holster, we're going to have a short conversation about safety and finger placement.

if you want to be a "gamer", great, go for it. if you want to test your daily carry rig and your ability, great, go for it.

Which is why my only complaint about the monthly local IDPA match I shoot in is that I can't carry appendix. All of my self-defense training has been drawing appendix and I carry appendix 7 days a week, but I can't even finda place in Houston to practice my draw with live fire. 😒

I enjoy competition and may try USPSA (if I can find some convenient matches), but my number 1 area of concentration is self defense and that means appendix carry. Oh, well, back to dry fire. :-)

[leekellerking]

Hmm... thank you! Looking at that target though, I feel the "A" zone is too generous. I'd be tempted to draw a line across the neck/body line and reduce the "A" even more. Easily done though.

John Hearne has a simple solution that is cheap as hell. Take a standard 8/1/2 x 11 sheet of paper; fold it lengthwise so you get an 4 1/4 by 11 piece; staple or paste that over a standard IDPA or USPA target so that the top if it comes to the base of the throat. Then you have a target where all the good stuff is hit (heart, aorta, spine).

Easy peasy, and the IDPA or USPA target can be one that is basically shot out and otherwise useless as a target. :D

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Our USPSA matches allow AIWB (not for me). There's a young lad who shoots a G43 AIWB and smokes the gamer rig guys. Speed of youth. Usually quite accurate. He's an engineer.

Query - empirically - how many wieners have been lost in USPSA, IDPA or other matches with AIWB? Versus, I shot my leg with various OWB, IWB on the side o'clocks? Discount Serpas, though.

[Jim Watson]

IDPA now allows bellybutton carry.
8.5.1.2 Must be a strong side hip holster worn inside the waistband (IWB) between 12 and 4 for right-handed shooters, or outside the waist band between 2 and 4 for right-handed shooters.


So does USPSA
5.2.6 USPSA Competition matches will not require the use of a particular typeor brand of holster. However, the Range Master may deem that a competitor’s holster is unsafe and order that it be improved to his satisfaction, failing which it must be withdrawn from the match. Divisions may restrict a specific type of holster. Providing the Division does not restrict the type or physical location of the holster, IWB or concealment holsters are legal, as long as the firearms can safely be drawn and replaced, and so doing does not break any safety rules


You may run into a timid Match Director who thinks it unsafe.

[MVS]

Our USPSA matches allow AIWB (not for me). There's a young lad who shoots a G43 AIWB and smokes the gamer rig guys. Speed of youth. Usually quite accurate. He's an engineer.

Query - empirically - how many wieners have been lost in USPSA, IDPA or other matches with AIWB? Versus, I shot my leg with various OWB, IWB on the side o'clocks? Discount Serpas, though.

Who knows. I haven't been competing that long, about 7 years combined first USPSA then IDPA and have never saw anyone shoot themselves though I have seen a number of ND's.

[Bucky]

Who knows. I haven't been competing that long, about 7 years combined first USPSA then IDPA and have never saw anyone shoot themselves though I have seen a number of ND's.

Hopefully you never will. I had been shooting for 22 years before I witnessesd someone shoot themselves. Then a few months, the second one happened, though I didn’t witness it, I was in the next bay.

10 years later, no one has been shot / shot themselves at a match I was attending (at least that I know of).

[CraigS]

I am finding that I really like the holster position rules now. Butt must be above the belt is real easy to see if you meet that one or not. Outside of the holster has to be 3 inches or less from the body is easy also. Not so much possibly checking it at a match but while putting it together. I make my own kydex shells and have been using a paddle mount from holstersmith.com. I mod the mount a little w/ a piece of kydex. See the green arrow;
116211
The edge hits my hip bone when I draw and really helps keep the holster from trying to rise as I pull against the slight retention I use. More is better but how far can I go w/ the width? Easy, I just hold the holster against the side of my toolbox and measure. 2 7/8" I am legal.
116212
I would love to run the holster lower but then I need more offset so I can get my thumb between the grip and the holster. And I am at the offset limit now. This last is my wife's holster which would be my ideal but the offset is too much. She only shoots at our IWLA matches which are idpa oriented but not officially affiliated so drops and offsets and thigh straps are OK there. It uses a Blackhawk duty type mount w/ a kydex extension for the thigh strap.
116213