Diving Deeper into GP100 Shooting: The Journey Starts

[SwampDweller]

After owning two GP100s for a while and only shooting 150 rounds through one of them a year ago, I finally took them to the range along with a couple hundred rounds of .38 and .357 ammo yesterday. The experience was productive and enlightening, and exposed several things I will need to work through.

GP100 #1 is a 6 shot 4" blued model with Hogue rubber stocks that I purchased over a year ago and had put a bit over 150 rounds through when I got it. Yesterday, I shot 90 rounds through it (48rds of .357, 42rds of .38 Spl). Functionally, there were no issues. I definitely need to work on my double action trigger pulls, which using .38 while shooting for that seems to be the answer as when I really concentrated, I could put the rounds exactly where I wanted them to go. I wasn't shooting that far, just over 20 feet.

GP100 #2 is a 7 shot 4" stainless model with the traditional Ruger full size rubber stocks with rosewood inserts (I have a set of compacts on the way). I was a little more interested in how this would perform reliability-wise as I remember there being issues with earlier 7-shot models, and my brother bought a blued 7-shot earlier this year that has issues with fired casings sticking in the chambers resulting in very difficult extraction. I fired 153 rounds through it (77rds of .357 Mag, 76rds of .38 Spl) and had no functionality issues whatsoever. Extraction was smooth and easy. The trigger pull on the 7 shot feels a bit different from the 6 shot, and I'm leaning towards saying I like the trigger pull of the 6 shooter better but it's more of a practice/familiarity issue than anything else. Accuracy with .38s was good if I did my part, but I definitely need more practice. With .357, I would throw my shots more often.

Ammunition used-
.357 Mag: Through both revolvers, almost all Magnum ammo was 158gr Magtech JSP. I'm not sure where this load falls among the .357 Magnum power spectrum, but it was certainly lively. Out of the GP100 with the Hogue rubber, it was a bit more controllable than the Ruger rubber/rosewood. In the 7-shot with Ruger stocks, after 60 rounds or so of Magtech .357, the inside of my thumb began to get slightly skinned by the top edge of the grip and it became less fun to shoot. With the 6-shot with Hogues, it was never really an issue but I did become fatigued with .357 after shooting quite a bit of Magnums through both Rugers back-to-back (with short intervals of shooting my G21 Gen 5 and USP 45 in between). Between both revolvers, I also shot a 20 (or 25? can't remember) round box of Hornady 125gr Critical Defense .357 Mag, which was rather pleasant to shoot, moreso than the Magtech 158gr.

I also shot a couple of cylinders through both revolvers of Remington 125gr JSP, and boy, that stuff was both flashy and blasty. Subjectively, recoil felt a bit less, but the blast and flash was significantly more than the 158gr. I had shooters next to me, so I limited my shooting of that load.

.38 Special: My loads in this caliber were a mix of Federal American Eagle 130gr FMJ and Remington 130gr FMJ. Recoil was negligible with both loads through both revolvers, and if I did my part and controlled my trigger press properly, accuracy was good. I just need to work on consistently.

My questions:

-The inside of my thumb got a little torn up with shooting Magnum loads through the 7-shot with the Ruger rubber/rosewood thinner stocks. I could switch to Hogue, but I was hoping to eventually put the Compact Ruger grips on one or both GP100s to eventually carry. Are there any solutions to this other than not shooting 100+ rounds of Magnums at one time? I suppose gloves?

-Accuracy with .357 degraded as I continued shooting, and even at the start I was throwing my shots more, most certainly partly due to flinch. I purchased 120rds of Winchester Silvertip 140gr for carry/defense, perhaps that would result in better shooting versus the Magtech 158gr? I know dry fire practice goes a long way and I will be increasing those sessions, but at some point I need it to translate to shooting Magnums. Or maybe the answer is simply to limit the amount of Magnums at a given range session? I'm open to advice as I start down this journey.

[As an aside, I recall Chuck Haggard saying in the Snub podcast Part 2 that Winchester ammo QC has fallen off the last couple of years. Is there a good alternative to the Silvertip load that is still .357 Magnum territory but not the full fury stuff?]

I may add to these questions as they come to my head through the day, but these are my stream-of-consciousness thoughts/questions I've had popping up since I left the range yesterday.
Thank you!

Pic of inside of my hand:
112194

[SwampDweller]

Forgot to add: My trigger finger has a blister after shooting. I found I get better control over the trigger if I have the first joint of my trigger finger over the trigger, but it apparently squeezes the side of my trigger finger a bit upon firing (particularly magnums) resulting in a blood blister as pictured. Any advice?
112193

[gato naranja]

The inside of my thumb got a little torn up with shooting Magnum loads through the 7-shot with the Ruger rubber/rosewood thinner stocks. I could switch to Hogue, but I was hoping to eventually put the Compact Ruger grips on one or both GP100s to eventually carry. Are there any solutions to this other than not shooting 100+ rounds of Magnums at one time? I suppose gloves?

I use the compact Ruger factory grips, and while I like them better than the full size versions from a number of standpoints, I do not like them with .357 Magnum loads. Nothing is likely to be more friendly to your hands when shooting stout loads than Hogue Tamers (not the run-of-the-mill Hogues), but they are a big grip.

[camsdaddy]

The small grip on a GP100 feels like it was made for my hand. If/when I purchase one this will be step one.

I would shoot 38's until I was familiar and felt the need to move to anything else. A hit with a 38 trumps any miss with a 357. I would think shooting 357 while trying to learn the platform may cause issues that would have to be unlearned later like flinch and such. Im interested in seeing the progression of this post.

[fatdog]

.... Is there a good alternative to the Silvertip load that is still .357 Magnum territory but not the full fury stuff?

I have dropped down to two 357 commercial defensive loads, one the Speer 135gr Gold Dot (https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1001595335?pid=121256) is still cataloged but I don't think they have made or shipped any of those in several years, I am very fortunate to have a stash. The other is the Remington 125gr Golden Sabre (https://botach.com/remington-golden-saber-357-magnum-125gr-bjhp-law-enforcement-ammunition-50-rounds/?sku=Remington-R29401&avad=74383_b3570560d).

Both are "medium" power and not punishing like the full patch stuff which I no longer care to shoot. From my 4" barrel S&W 19-3 the Gold dot is doing about 1080 fps according to my notes and the Remington about 1220 fps. Both lots in my stash are from at least 8-10 years ago and I have no idea how either load might have changed since.

[Hizzie]

Personally I have come to really like the Hogue 80010 non finger grooved rubber for shooting. The compact Lett is still my preference for carry as the rubber isn’t as tacky.

[JonInWA]

Try using a thumb-over-thumb grip. However, in my experimentation and experience, if you're going to be shooting more than 50 rounds of full-house .357 magnum, the Hogue Tamers are your best bet for a comfortable, painless protracted .357 magnum session.

Best, Jon

[JonInWA]

As I discussed in one of my detailed (ok, excruciatingly detailed...)threads, I do not recommend Winchester Silvertip .357 magnums (in my case the 145 gr) due to repeated quality control issues with primers and non-ignition last year. I'm currently carrying and recommending Federal 158 gr HydraShoks, which have performed flawlessly for me.

Best, Jon

[gato naranja]

Through both revolvers, almost all Magnum ammo was 158gr Magtech JSP. I'm not sure where this load falls among the .357 Magnum power spectrum, but it was certainly lively.

-Accuracy with .357 degraded as I continued shooting, and even at the start I was throwing my shots more, most certainly partly due to flinch. I purchased 120rds of Winchester Silvertip 140gr for carry/defense, perhaps that would result in better shooting versus the Magtech 158gr? I know dry fire practice goes a long way and I will be increasing those sessions, but at some point I need it to translate to shooting Magnums. Or maybe the answer is simply to limit the amount of Magnums at a given range session?

I piled up that Magtech load - at very reasonable prices - from a former LGS a few years back. From a carbine it is fine; out of a 4" GP-100 it gets my attention immediately; launched through my beat-up SP101 it is just unpleasant. I backed off on using it in the revolvers and now run .38 Special through them as a general rule, though I still use the Magtech .357 in my Marlin 1894CSS. Yes, there are "softer shooting" .357 factory loads out there, but finding them around here is hit-and-miss. Mostly miss. Reloaders (alas, I am no longer one of them) are in the catbird seat, because great mild .357 loads are not hard to achieve.

When I returned to the GP-100 after a hiatus, I did so because it was overall the least objectionable .357 revolver of all the ones I had owned up to that point. I knew going in that any grip was going to be a compromise, and so it has proven.

[Flamingo]

I am carrying the 357 135gr Critical Duty in my 4 inch GP100 and 4 inch Security Six.

[jtcarm]

I have a permanent callous on my thumb in that spot.

I took the Dremel to my GP100 and radiused the sharp edges to take the bite out of that spur.

A less permanent fix is to put a piece of lizard skin (bat tape) across it.

[JonInWA]

I am carrying the 357 135gr Critical Duty in my 4 inch GP100 and 4 inch Security Six.

Hornady make good medicine. I like the Critical Duty loadings for 9mm and .45 ACP as well. In .357 magnum, you're looking at 1,275 fps at muzzle velocity. I also like the nickel-plated cartridge cases for carry; it gives you a bit more weather protection.

Best, Jon

[gato naranja]

Forgot to add: My trigger finger has a blister after shooting. I found I get better control over the trigger if I have the first joint of my trigger finger over the trigger, but it apparently squeezes the side of my trigger finger a bit upon firing (particularly magnums) resulting in a blood blister as pictured. Any advice?
112193

Radius the edges of the trigger and then polish the crap out of it. My SP101 ("The Rattler") came with most edges so crisp you could almost shave with them. The trigger shown is the result of my having bled, sworn, rolled up my sleeves, spit on my hands, and raised the Jolly Roger over a sharp trigger edge.

Many years later, I still congratulate myself for having attacked the problem so comprehensively.

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[camsdaddy]

Radius the edges of the trigger and then polish the crap out of it. My SP101 ("The Rattler") came with most edges so crisp you could almost shave with them. The trigger shown is the result of my having bled, sworn, rolled up my sleeves, spit on my hands, and raised the Jolly Roger over a sharp trigger edge.

Many years later, I still congratulate myself for having attacked the problem so comprehensively.


This should have been my reaction to my SP101. I regret selling it and will buy another one.

[SwampDweller]

Hornady make good medicine. I like the Critical Duty loadings for 9mm and .45 ACP as well. In .357 magnum, you're looking at 1,275 fps at muzzle velocity. I also like the nickel-plated cartridge cases for carry; it gives you a bit more weather protection.

Best, Jon

Thanks. My first thought was to go with Hornady but after reading about how well the 140gr Silvertips performed back in the day by DB I ordered it on a whim when I saw it in stock at Lucky Gunner. I should have realized that current Winchester ammo isn’t made to the same quality standards as it used to be.

I’m probably going to go with Critical Duty as it sounds like a relatively milder load while still well within .357 Magnum territory, but what about XTPs as well? When I carry .357 it will primarily be for normal conceal carry defensive purposes.

Also, how many rounds should I put through a GP100 before I should consider it reliable enough for carry? For semi autos I’ve always gone with DocGKR’s recommendation of at least 500 and preferably 1000. Does that translate to revolvers?

Thank you everyone for the information so far. I’m on my phone at lunch so I will be able to dive in more this evening. I’m excited to really get into DA revolver shooting!

[358156hp]

Forgot to add: My trigger finger has a blister after shooting. I found I get better control over the trigger if I have the first joint of my trigger finger over the trigger, but it apparently squeezes the side of my trigger finger a bit upon firing (particularly magnums) resulting in a blood blister as pictured. Any advice?


It kinda, sorta looks to me like your trigger finger got down to the toe of the trigger a bit too much. As a start I'd suggest more shooting, with your being very conscious of the position of your trigger finger on the trigger, and see if you can manipulate the trigger from a slightly higher position. I would also go ahead and have the trigger profile and polished as mentioned above.

[gtmtnbiker98]

Thanks. My first thought was to go with Hornady but after reading about how well the 140gr Silvertips performed back in the day by DB I ordered it on a whim when I saw it in stock at Lucky Gunner. I should have realized that current Winchester ammo isn’t made to the same quality standards as it used to be.

I’m probably going to go with Critical Duty as it sounds like a relatively milder load while still well within .357 Magnum territory, but what about XTPs as well? When I carry .357 it will primarily be for normal conceal carry defensive purposes.

Also, how many rounds should I put through a GP100 before I should consider it reliable enough for carry? For semi autos I’ve always gone with DocGKR’s recommendation of at least 500 and preferably 1000. Does that translate to revolvers?

Thank you everyone for the information so far. I’m on my phone at lunch so I will be able to dive in more this evening. I’m excited to really get into DA revolver shooting!

I don't vet revolvers as I do semi autos. I'll call a revolver good after 50 rounds of range ammo and a couple cylinders of my preferred carry load. Your primary concerns should be whether or not carry ammo hits to the sights, your primers ignite, and you can handle the recoil. That's what I do. When I load .357, I use Hornady Critical Duty and for the lighter revolvers, I use 110gr Critical Defense .38 +P. I am moving to wadcutters for the snubs after the first of the year.

[SwampDweller]

As I discussed in one of my detailed (ok, excruciatingly detailed...)threads, I do not recommend Winchester Silvertip .357 magnums (in my case the 145 gr) due to repeated quality control issues with primers and non-ignition last year. I'm currently carrying and recommending Federal 158 gr HydraShoks, which have performed flawlessly for me.

Best, Jon

In semi auto calibers, it's my understanding that the HydraShoks are not really that great. Do the .357 Mag 158gr ones perform better? Reliable expansion and penetration, etc? I'm leaning towards picking up some Critical Duty 135 but am also open to others. Above was mentioned the Remington Golden Saber 125gr.

Also, I didn't know there was a difference between the normal Hogue rubber grips that come on most GP100s and the Hogue Tamers. Perhaps I should pick up some.

I was thinking of ordering a case of Speer Lawman .38 Special +P 158gr TMJ as a typical practice load.

[JonInWA]

In semi auto calibers, it's my understanding that the HydraShoks are not really that great. Do the .357 Mag 158gr ones perform better? Reliable expansion and penetration, etc? I'm leaning towards picking up some Critical Duty 135 but am also open to others. Above was mentioned the Remington Golden Saber 125gr.

Also, I didn't know there was a difference between the normal Hogue rubber grips that come on most GP100s and the Hogue Tamers. Perhaps I should pick up some.

I was thinking of ordering a case of Speer Lawman .38 Special +P 158gr TMJ as a typical practice load.

In discussions with p-f members previously, the 158 gr .357 magnum HydraShoks were considered a decent choice, and they were available and were consistent in my testing for reliably firing and accuracy. I would be very open to Speer Gold Dot and Hornady Critical Duty, as both appear to be very consistent and reliable performers in virtually any caliber they're offered in. I also have a small quantity of Remington High Terminal Performance (HTP) 158 gr .357 magnums, simply because it was available from the supplier when ordering ammunition when I was running an institutional training and qualification session; in my limited testing and use, it seems decent but I am more preferential towards the above-discussed cartridges.

I think the Speer Lawman .38 Special 158 gr +P would be an excellent choice for training and practice, I've used it and found it consistently excellent-I plan on ordering some for my future practice and match use with the GP100.

Any input from those here with experience with defensive .357 magnum cartridges would be most appreciated, especially since to date DocGKR doesn't have any rated that I could find on the Ammunition sub-forum here.

Again, I really wanted the Winchester 145 gr Silvertips to work. The stuff that I obtained BNIB last year when testing didn't.

Best, Jon

[BobM]

I don't vet revolvers as I do semi autos. I'll call a revolver good after 50 rounds of range ammo and a couple cylinders of my preferred carry load. Your primary concerns should be whether or not carry ammo hits to the sights, your primers ignite, and you can handle the recoil. That's what I do. When I load .357, I use Hornady Critical Duty and for the lighter revolvers, I use 110gr Critical Defense .38 +P. I am moving to wadcutters for the snubs after the first of the year.

Have you been able to find any wadcutters in stock?

[SwampDweller]

In discussions with p-f members previously, the 158 gr .357 magnum HydraShoks were considered a decent choice, and they were available and were consistent in my testing for reliably firing and accuracy. I would be very open to Speer Gold Dot and Hornady Critical Duty, as both appear to be very consistent and reliable performers in virtually any caliber they're offered in. I also have a small quantity of Remington High Terminal Performance (HTP) 158 gr .357 magnums, simply because it was available from the supplier when ordering ammunition when I was running an institutional training and qualification session; in my limited testing and use, it seems decent but I am more preferential towards the above-discussed cartridges.

I think the Speer Lawman .38 Special 158 gr +P would be an excellent choice for training and practice, I've used it and found it consistently excellent-I plan on ordering some for my future practice and match use with the GP100.

Any input from those here with experience with defensive .357 magnum cartridges would be most appreciated, especially since to date DocGKR doesn't have any rated that I could find on the Ammunition sub-forum here.

Again, I really wanted the Winchester 145 gr Silvertips to work. The stuff that I obtained BNIB last year when testing didn't.

Best, Jon
Thanks. The Remington HTP 158gr is one I’ve seen some say is a decent performer, but I’m leaning towards going to the 135gr Critical Duty load as my go-to defensive load.

Regarding shooting .38 for training: how much of a problem is the ring buildup in the chambers shooting lots of .38 and then trying to load .357? How many rounds before it becomes an issue? And how can I prevent it?

I just ordered some Hogue Tamers. When the Ruger compact grips get here, I will put those on one GP100 and the Tamer on the other to see how I like each. So it looks like I’m going to Critical Duty for carry, I wonder what then would be a good training .357 load? The Magtechs work but I’m not sure they’re well suited.

What about the Barnes Tac-XPD 125gr .357?

[Flamingo]

In my gun, the 135 Hornady Critical Duty .357 shot to the same POA/POI as 158 gr Rainier Plated HP loaded in Starline 38 Special brass with 3.3 gr of titegroup.

[JonInWA]

Thanks. My first thought was to go with Hornady but after reading about how well the 140gr Silvertips performed back in the day by DB I ordered it on a whim when I saw it in stock at Lucky Gunner. I should have realized that current Winchester ammo isn’t made to the same quality standards as it used to be.

I’m probably going to go with Critical Duty as it sounds like a relatively milder load while still well within .357 Magnum territory, but what about XTPs as well? When I carry .357 it will primarily be for normal conceal carry defensive purposes.

Also, how many rounds should I put through a GP100 before I should consider it reliable enough for carry? For semi autos I’ve always gone with DocGKR’s recommendation of at least 500 and preferably 1000. Does that translate to revolvers?

Thank you everyone for the information so far. I’m on my phone at lunch so I will be able to dive in more this evening. I’m excited to really get into DA revolver shooting!

For vetting a revolver for carry, I'll do several things:

1. Field strip, clean and lubricate.

2. Dry fire to get a feel for the action and characteristics, and to see how I initially index with the revolver

3. Square-range zero with both practice/range cartridges and carry cartridges

4. Determine which holster works best with the revolver

5. Run the revolver in at least one dynamic shooting sport match-normally IDPA and/or ASI

6. Perform a qualifier/classifier with the revolver.

7. Field strip/detail disassemble as perceived needed or desirable, clean and lubricate, and apply any protective finish for duty exposures, such as Renaissance Wax for blued guns, or an exterior rub down with Sentry Solutions Tuf Cloth.

8. Load for duty, and determine best reloading devices and pouches for backup; my essential minimum is 6 rounds in the revolver, 6 rounds in a Safariland of HKS speedloader, carried in a between-the-pants-and-belt reversed Safariland CD-2 spring steel speedloader pouch, carried immediately in front of the revolver holster, and at least 1 6 round Speed Strip, normally carried in a Galco 2x2x2 pouch, upsidedown on my belt on my support side (if needed, I un-gripper the pouch flap and pull down on the Speed Strip to extract from the pouch-cartridge fit friction ensures that things don't just fall out).

9. If more reserve reload speedloaders are needed, I'll normally carry 2-3 in a Tactical Tailor case on my belt, with the location dependant on the activity/venue.

Hope that helps.

Best, Jon

This protocol (such as it is) I've found to serve pretty nicely. It ensures that the revolver properly functions, and that I also can properly function with it. Round-count wise, the process probably encompasses some 100-250 rounds.

Best, Jon

[JonInWA]

Thanks. The Remington HTP 158gr is one I’ve seen some say is a decent performer, but I’m leaning towards going to the 135gr Critical Duty load as my go-to defensive load.

Regarding shooting .38 for training: how much of a problem is the ring buildup in the chambers shooting lots of .38 and then trying to load .357? How many rounds before it becomes an issue? And how can I prevent it?

I just ordered some Hogue Tamers. When the Ruger compact grips get here, I will put those on one GP100 and the Tamer on the other to see how I like each. So it looks like I’m going to Critical Duty for carry, I wonder what then would be a good training .357 load? The Magtechs work but I’m not sure they’re well suited.

What about the Barnes Tac-XPD 125gr .357?

If you train or shoot .38 Special cartridges extensively (i.e., probably more than 50 rounds), if you need to immediately chamber .357 cartridges, brushing out the cylinder chambers will likely suffice to sufficiently remove any ring build up, particularly if you're in the field. There's really nothing you can do to prevent it, other than loading .357 cases with .38 Special loads or using light .357 magnum cartridges. In reality, the burn rings are not that difficult to deal with.

During an administrative more through after-session cleaning, use of a bronze, steel, or Tornado brush should resolve things. You can also cut a patch of lead remover cloth to patch size, and scrub out the chambers with it (but don't use it on a blued gun, as it'll remove the bluing). For cylinder chamber cleaning, I recommend using a longer chamber cleaning brush.

During an IDPA or ASI match, I carry a gunsmithing toothbrush or similar, and a chamber brush, and typically at mid-match (in a 100 or so round match), I'll go to the safety area and brush out the chambers, breech face, forcing cone, and both sides of the extracter star (and the inner portion of the back of the cylinder where the extracter star sits at rest). A clue that this is needed is if you need to thumb flush cartridges into your cylinder if they hesitate to fully chamber during reloads, or if the cylinder is difficult to close, or the trigger is difficult to pull through.

I don't have any experience whatsoever with any Barnes cartridges and little if any with the Magtechs, so I'll refrain from commenting and see what others have to say.

Best, Jon

[JonInWA]

For match/training cartridges, for .357 magnum cartridges I recommend Sellier & Bellot, American Eagle or similar factory cartridges, with bullet grain weight corresponding to carry cartridge bullet grain weight-that way, you won't need to adjust/re-adjust your sights.

I'll probably be switching to .38 Special/.38 Special +P cartridges for match and practice use; Speer Lawman, American Eagle, Remington/UMC and Norma have all served me well and without drama.

Best, Jon

[camsdaddy]

Have you been able to find any wadcutters in stock?

Precision Delta has wadcutters in stock.

[SwampDweller]

For match/training cartridges, for .357 magnum cartridges I recommend Sellier & Bellot, American Eagle or similar factory cartridges, with bullet grain weight corresponding to carry cartridge bullet grain weight-that way, you won't need to adjust/re-adjust your sights.

I'll probably be switching to .38 Special/.38 Special +P cartridges for match and practice use; Speer Lawman, American Eagle, Remington/UMC and Norma have all served me well and without drama.

Best, Jon
If that’s the case, maybe I should consider going with the Remington 158gr HTP load or Federal HydraShok 158 because all of the American Eagle .357 practice type ammo (AE and Lawman are my preferred training rounds because of QC/consistency) seems to be 158gr JSP.

[JonInWA]

That was my decision with my GP100. If the 145gr Silvertips had worked (which they didn't) POA/POI wouldn't have been significantly different from that with 158 gr bullets. I've just decided to stick with 158gr across the board to simplify my life.

Conversely, with my Security Six, I carry and practice/match using 125 gr. .38 Special +P cartridges-Remington Golden Saber 125 gr +P JHP for carry, and Remington/UMC 125 gr +P SJHP for practice/match use.

The key thing for me is sticking with the same bullet grain weight across the board.

Best, Jon

[dannyd93140]

I have fired all of these out of my GP100's just about 150,000 times.

112245

[Edster]

If I'm carrying a .357, I'm probably worried more about animals that humans. The Remington 158 semi-jacketed/HTP is readily available and seems to do what I want from a heavy magnum-level .357. I've been very impressed with the gel tests and accuracy of the all-copper Federal/Barnes 140 grain load, too, but finding it has been more iffy. Both the Remington 158 grain and the Federal 140 grain seem to run about 1300 fps and hit about the same point of aim.

For practice, anything around 158 grain and 1300 fps hits to the sights for me.

I have a Hogue Tamer grip. It does help with recoil but I dislike the finger groove locations. Concealment is pretty hard, too. I spent a good chunk of change and time experimenting with grips over the years. They all have trade-offs between pointability, recoil control, trigger reach, and concealability. It just boils down to what is most important to the owner. I finally settled on the full-length wood panel Altamonts. Recoil control is ok, pointability and trigger reach are excellent, and they conceal as well as I could hope.

[rathos]

I have a 3 inch GP-100 with the compact ruger grips. I carry 125 grain barnes X in it. While any .357 is quite a bit more lively, it isn't horrible with those grips. I took all of the wood grips off any .357 I actually shoot .357 out of as I had the same issue with it beating up the web of my hand. My 3 inch is a Wiley Clapp, so maybe the trigger is better, as I don't get the blister on the trigger finger. High Desert Cartridge makes a great .357 load. It is closer to a .38 but you don't get the carbon ring in your cylinder.

[revchuck38]

<thread drift>


In discussions with p-f members previously, the 158 gr .357 magnum HydraShoks were considered a decent choice, and they were available and were consistent in my testing for reliably firing and accuracy. I would be very open to Speer Gold Dot and Hornady Critical Duty, as both appear to be very consistent and reliable performers in virtually any caliber they're offered in. I also have a small quantity of Remington High Terminal Performance (HTP) 158 gr .357 magnums, simply because it was available from the supplier when ordering ammunition when I was running an institutional training and qualification session; in my limited testing and use, it seems decent but I am more preferential towards the above-discussed cartridges.

In the Lucky Gunner tests (https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/), both the Hornady Critical Duty 135s and R-P 158s made it through four layers of unspecified cloth and expanded well. The 158 Gold Dots didn't expand and ended up at the end of the second gel block. OTOH, the 135-grain Gold Dot Short Barrel load expanded well. I'm aware of the shortcomings of using the Clear Ballistic Gel blocks, but at least it's an apples-to-apples comparison.

My remaining stock of .357 Mag carry ammo is the R-P 158-grain load, because it hits POA from my 681. I need to try the Hornady load. If Speer ever makes another run of their short barrel load, I'll try it too.

</thread drift>

[SwampDweller]

<thread drift>



In the Lucky Gunner tests (https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/), both the Hornady Critical Duty 135s and R-P 158s made it through four layers of unspecified cloth and expanded well. The 158 Gold Dots didn't expand and ended up at the end of the second gel block. OTOH, the 135-grain Gold Dot Short Barrel load expanded well. I'm aware of the shortcomings of using the Clear Ballistic Gel blocks, but at least it's an apples-to-apples comparison.

My remaining stock of .357 Mag carry ammo is the R-P 158-grain load, because it hits POA from my 681. I need to try the Hornady load. If Speer ever makes another run of their short barrel load, I'll try it too.

</thread drift>

I have a couple of hundred rounds of the Remington 158gr SJHP on the way to try out. Based on the numbers I'm seeing, it seems like a full-house load that will probably feel about like the Magtech 158gr JSP (listed as going a bit above 1300fps). We'll see how it does with both the Hogue Tamer and Compact grips. I'm sure the Tamers will be far more pleasant, and I'd love to find a solution to conceal a 4" GP100 with tamers, but based on how the standard Hogue grips on my blued GP100 sticks out visibly when concealed IWB, I doubt it unless there's some holster that performs magic.

Speaking of holsters, I carry IWB at about 4 o' clock. I do not and cannot carry AIWB. At the moment the only IWB holster for the GP100 I have is the Galco Summer Special. Are there better holsters that conceal IWB (non-appendix) better?

I also have some Critical Duty 135gr on the way, and I'm sure that will be a more pleasant, middle-of-the-road, .357 Magnum loading, but if I can't find a practice load that will match the point of impact with it, I might be better off carrying the Remington HTP 158gr.

I'm interested in the Barnes loads. I do remember DocGKR and perhaps Chuck Haggard saying the Barnes 140gr .357 Mag load performs well, but I also remember concerns of overpenetration. I'm particularly curious about the TAC-XPD 125gr loading, if it gets adequate penetration and expansion without too much overpenetration.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Regarding shooting .38 for training: how much of a problem is the ring buildup in the chambers shooting lots of .38 and then trying to load .357? How many rounds before it becomes an issue? And how can I prevent it?



If you train or shoot .38 Special cartridges extensively (i.e., probably more than 50 rounds), if you need to immediately chamber .357 cartridges, brushing out the cylinder chambers will likely suffice to sufficiently remove any ring build up, particularly if you're in the field. There's really nothing you can do to prevent it, other than loading .357 cases with .38 Special loads or using light .357 magnum cartridges. In reality, the burn rings are not that difficult to deal with.



High Desert Cartridge makes a great .357 load. It is closer to a .38 but you don't get the carbon ring in your cylinder.

rathos beat me to it.

DB was involved in the development of this round. It was specifically set up to shoot in older (vintage) fixed-sight .357's, without beating the gun to death, or the shooter. (I haven't tried it yet, but it will be my next ammo order)

https://highdesertcartridge.com/

[03RN]

Ryan Grizzle horsehide
112291

I'd love to find some 158gr sjhp to reload.

Right now my carry load is a 147gr hat at 1275fps. When I shoot through all that I might go back to 158gr xtps at 1230fps.

[Stephanie B]

rathos beat me to it.

DB was involved in the development of this round. It was specifically set up to shoot in older (vintage) fixed-sight .357's, without beating the gun to death, or the shooter. (I haven't tried it yet, but it will be my next ammo order)

https://highdesertcartridge.com/

I shot about 300 rounds of that cartridge in an ICORE match in September. It easily passed the chrono out of a 4" Model 66. I came home and ordered another 500 rounds. I've had to stop shooting for a bit, but I'm going to burn up some more in a match after Xmas. (Haven't decided on which .357 yet.)

I recommend it.

[revchuck38]

I shot about 300 rounds of that cartridge in an ICORE match in September. It easily passed the chrono out of a 4" Model 66. I came home and ordered another 500 rounds. I've had to stop shooting for a bit, but I'm going to burn up some more in a match after Xmas. (Haven't decided on which .357 yet.)

I recommend it.

Which version (TMJ or JHP) did you shoot, and do you remember the chronographed velocity?

[SwampDweller]

rathos beat me to it.

DB was involved in the development of this round. It was specifically set up to shoot in older (vintage) fixed-sight .357's, without beating the gun to death, or the shooter. (I haven't tried it yet, but it will be my next ammo order)

https://highdesertcartridge.com/

I heard DB refer to this ammunition during the P&S .357 Magnum podcast. This is reloaded ammo, correct? I take it if DB puts his trust in it it must be well made. The price appears to be pretty good too. So it looks like the load in question is the 158gr TMJ, which is 48 cpr before shipping/tax (if tax is charged). That doesn't seem bad at all. I usually stay away from remanufactured ammo, but the names associated with High Desert gives it points above the fly-by-night remanufacturers I've seen popping up the last few years.

If anyone has any IWB 4-o-clock GP100 holster recommendations, I'm all ears. As stated earlier, at the moment all I have is a Galco Summer Special leather holster that isn't really a viable solution with the standard hogue grips or the full size Lett-type grips. I haven't tried with the compact Lett grips yet.

[SwampDweller]

Ryan Grizzle horsehide
112291

I'd love to find some 158gr sjhp to reload.

Right now my carry load is a 147gr hat at 1275fps. When I shoot through all that I might go back to 158gr xtps at 1230fps.

I'm interested in the 158gr XTP as well. It seems like a middle-of-the-road Magnum cartridge if I remember right. I can't find any data on it from the likes of DocGKR though.

[Corse]

I have a couple of hundred rounds of the Remington 158gr SJHP on the way to try out. Based on the numbers I'm seeing, it seems like a full-house load that will probably feel about like the Magtech 158gr JSP (listed as going a bit above 1300fps). We'll see how it does with both the Hogue Tamer and Compact grips. I'm sure the Tamers will be far more pleasant, and I'd love to find a solution to conceal a 4" GP100 with tamers, but based on how the standard Hogue grips on my blued GP100 sticks out visibly when concealed IWB, I doubt it unless there's some holster that performs magic.

Speaking of holsters, I carry IWB at about 4 o' clock. I do not and cannot carry AIWB. At the moment the only IWB holster for the GP100 I have is the Galco Summer Special. Are there better holsters that conceal IWB (non-appendix) better?

I also have some Critical Duty 135gr on the way, and I'm sure that will be a more pleasant, middle-of-the-road, .357 Magnum loading, but if I can't find a practice load that will match the point of impact with it, I might be better off carrying the Remington HTP 158gr.

I'm interested in the Barnes loads. I do remember DocGKR and perhaps Chuck Haggard saying the Barnes 140gr .357 Mag load performs well, but I also remember concerns of overpenetration. I'm particularly curious about the TAC-XPD 125gr loading, if it gets adequate penetration and expansion without too much overpenetration.

From the limited testing I have done, the 158gr Remington HTP load is a full power load and has quite a bit of recoil in the small to medium guns.

[gtmtnbiker98]

Have you been able to find any wadcutters in stock?

Underwood has WC's in stock.

[revchuck38]

Have you been able to find any wadcutters in stock?

SGAmmo has S&B (https://www.sgammo.com/product/38-special-ammo/50-round-box-38-special-148-grain-lead-wad-cutter-ammo-sellier-bellot-sb38b)

[Half Moon]

SGAmmo has S&B (https://www.sgammo.com/product/38-special-ammo/50-round-box-38-special-148-grain-lead-wad-cutter-ammo-sellier-bellot-sb38b)

FWIW, the S&B leaded bad, in a 640-1, the one box I tried a few years ago. Not as bad as PPU WC's, mind you... granted that is all dependant on throats etc that vary revolver to revolver...

[revchuck38]

FWIW, the S&B leaded bad, in a 640-1, the one box I tried a few years ago. Not as bad as PPU WC's, mind you... granted that is all dependant on throats etc that vary revolver to revolver...

Good info. I've never used them, I just saw that they were available.

[SwampDweller]

Last time I bought Wadcutters was about a year ago from Federal’s website for Gold Medal Match and it was just over a dollar per round. I only got it for my 642.

[dannyd93140]

Glad I cast and reload my own.

[SwampDweller]

I put the Compact Lett grips on my 6 shot blued GP100. I can't explain why but it changes the feel of the entire gun and makes it feel more like a K-frame, or at least something noticeably handier. I'm sure it will be a detriment to performance using full power Magnum, but I really do like the way it feels and my finger placement seemingly is a bit more optimal. I have the Hogue Tamer grips on the way for my 7-shot stainless.
112310

[gato naranja]

I put the Compact Lett grips on my 6 shot blued GP100. I can't explain why but it changes the feel of the entire gun and makes it feel more like a K-frame, or at least something noticeably handier. I'm sure it will be a detriment to performance using full power Magnum, but I really do like the way it feels and my finger placement seemingly is a bit more optimal. I have the Hogue Tamer grips on the way for my 7-shot stainless.
112310

Those grips change both the handling AND the looks to a remarkable degree.

For a long time I figured that if the full size GP-100 factory rubber grip left me cold, so would the compact. I wuz wrong.

[revchuck38]

Have you been able to find any wadcutters in stock?

Here (https://ammoseek.com/ammo/38-special/-handgun-148grains?sh=high) are the results I got from ammoseek.com using .38 Special and 148 grains as the search criteria. Not all of them are wadcutters; the S&B have been outed as leading, the Fiocchi have been chronographed at ~500 fps, so I'd avoid them. Some of the choices are 148 grains but not wadcutters.

R-P is the only "major" manufacturer on their list. It's one of the two choices for best quality stuff, the other being Federal. They're ~$32/box of 50 plus shipping depending on where you get them from. I recently got a box of the current production stuff and it chronographed 673 fps with an SD of 8 from my M49, a little bit slower than the Federal but with a similar SD. So the good stuff's out there, you just have to look.

/thread drift

[Stephanie B]

Which version (TMJ or JHP) did you shoot, and do you remember the chronographed velocity?

TMJ and if I remember correctly, about 870fps. I only fired one round through the chrono.

[awp_101]

Here (https://ammoseek.com/ammo/38-special/-handgun-148grains?sh=high) are the results I got from ammoseek.com using .38 Special and 148 grains as the search criteria. Not all of them are wadcutters; the S&B have been outed as leading, the Fiocchi have been chronographed at ~500 fps, so I'd avoid them. Some of the choices are 148 grains but not wadcutters.

R-P is the only "major" manufacturer on their list. It's one of the two choices for best quality stuff, the other being Federal. They're ~$32/box of 50 plus shipping depending on where you get them from. I recently got a box of the current production stuff and it chronographed 673 fps with an SD of 8 from my M49, a little bit slower than the Federal but with a similar SD. So the good stuff's out there, you just have to look.

/thread drift
Is the S&B leading problem a component issue (size/hardness/velocity) across the board or is it individual revolver dependent?

I wasn't happy hearing about the Fiocchi on the last P&S snubby episode. Guess what I've been carrying in my 442...:eek:

I recall DB worked with High Desert Cartridge on a snub load but I don't recall if it's a wadcutter and I don't know the pricing. He worked with Georgia Arms as well but that load is currently NLA due to a factory fire IIRC.

[revchuck38]

The cartridges he worked with High Desert on are moderate velocity .357 Magnums, not wadcutters.

[farscott]

Forgot to add: My trigger finger has a blister after shooting. I found I get better control over the trigger if I have the first joint of my trigger finger over the trigger, but it apparently squeezes the side of my trigger finger a bit upon firing (particularly magnums) resulting in a blood blister as pictured. Any advice?

Depending on when the revolver was made (this was an issue with the older revolvers), the edges of trigger can have small (sharp) radii. Breaking those edges will eliminate blisters.

[SwampDweller]

Depending on when the revolver was made (this was an issue with the older revolvers), the edges of trigger can have small (sharp) radii. Breaking those edges will eliminate blisters.

Both of these revolvers were purchased new within the last year and a few months. I was thinking of sending at least one off to Gemini Custom for some work and maybe they could do it for me. Funnily enough the blood blister was gone in 48 hours. The skinning in the web of my hand is still in the process of healing. I didn't even realize it was happening till I was over a hundred rounds of Magnums in. Perhaps in the meantime wearing a glove on my right hand could help.

[awp_101]

The cartridges he worked with High Desert on are moderate velocity .357 Magnums, not wadcutters.

Thanks! CRS strikes again...:cool:

[Rex G]

Forgot to add: My trigger finger has a blister after shooting. I found I get better control over the trigger if I have the first joint of my trigger finger over the trigger, but it apparently squeezes the side of my trigger finger a bit upon firing (particularly magnums) resulting in a blood blister as pictured. Any advice?
112193

It is quite possible that your finger is being pinched between the right rear corner of the trigger, and the inside of the trigger guard. The remedy is to use a sharpening stone or similar tool to break that edge, along each rear corner of the trigger. No need to remove much metal; just break the sharpness of the corner. There may be a tutorial somewhere on the you-tube.

[BehindBlueI's]

I am carrying the 357 135gr Critical Duty in my 4 inch GP100 and 4 inch Security Six.

Fairly small sample size, but I've yet to see one stay inside a human body when fired from a 4" or up barrel. Judging from the injuries and clothing, they came out expanded.

If that's a feature or a bug is up to the user and their needs.

[Flamingo]

Fairly small sample size, but I've yet to see one stay inside a human body when fired from a 4" or up barrel. Judging from the injuries and clothing, they came out expanded.

If that's a feature or a bug is up to the user and their needs.

Thank you. Your experience with this means a lot to me. I will move them to the 3 inch GP100, and find something else to carry in the 4 inchers.

[revchuck38]

Fairly small sample size, but I've yet to see one stay inside a human body when fired from a 4" or up barrel. Judging from the injuries and clothing, they came out expanded.

If that's a feature or a bug is up to the user and their needs.

That's good info, though not what I wanted to hear. It's a definite bug for me. I guess my 4" 19 is going to have to stay with the R-P version of the FBI load.

[SwampDweller]

It is quite possible that your finger is being pinched between the right rear corner of the trigger, and the inside of the trigger guard. The remedy is to use a sharpening stone or similar tool to break that edge, along each rear corner of the trigger. No need to remove much metal; just break the sharpness of the corner. There may be a tutorial somewhere on the you-tube.

I think you’re exactly correct about my finger being pinched.

[Rex G]

I think you’re exactly correct about my finger being pinched.

I just realized that I should not have specified which rear corner. Either rear corner can pinch the finger, depending upon the size and shape of the finger. It does not take much stoning to remove the hard edge.

[feudist]

Both of these revolvers were purchased new within the last year and a few months. I was thinking of sending at least one off to Gemini Custom for some work and maybe they could do it for me. Funnily enough the blood blister was gone in 48 hours. The skinning in the web of my hand is still in the process of healing. I didn't even realize it was happening till I was over a hundred rounds of Magnums in. Perhaps in the meantime wearing a glove on my right hand could help.

Try a piece of moleskin over the affected area, either on the web of your hand or the grip where it hits you. I've also used 1" painters/masking tape that I use to tape targets as a field expedient on my trigger finger when shooting torquey revolvers.

[vtfarmer]

Both of these revolvers were purchased new within the last year and a few months. I was thinking of sending at least one off to Gemini Custom for some work and maybe they could do it for me. Funnily enough the blood blister was gone in 48 hours. The skinning in the web of my hand is still in the process of healing. I didn't even realize it was happening till I was over a hundred rounds of Magnums in. Perhaps in the meantime wearing a glove on my right hand could help.
In regard to the damage to the web of the hand at the base of the thumb, I had that problem with my SP101 shooting magnum loads. I decided that the problem was that the circumference of the original grip was too small, it needed to be greater to keep my
hand away from that corner of the frame in recoil. I tested that by wrapping the grip in layers of electrical tape to increase the circumference to about the same as the GP100 compact grip. Worked like a charm, no more web damage.

I've never had that problem with any of my GP100s with Ruger or Altamont grips. In any event, the fix would be a grip that covers that corner of the frame, or moves the hand out away from it. The Ruger compact grip is slightly smaller in circumference than the full size so I doubt it would help unless it lowers the position of the hand further away from the frame. A glove would obviously help. One other thing that occurs to me is a stronger, more aggressive grip on the gun. The more you keep the muzzle down, the less that frame corner is going to pivot up and come back against the thumb.

[dannyd93140]

Why not just shoot target loads, it's easy on you and the GP. I never shoot anything over 1000 fps. That's why I have a 1989 GP with probably 35,000 rounds on it that works like new.

[03RN]

Why not just shoot target loads, it's easy on you and the GP. I never shoot anything over 1000 fps. That's why I have a 1989 GP with probably 35,000 rounds on it that works like new.

As long as your not shooting to fast 35k magnum rounds isn't going to hurt the gun either

[SwampDweller]

Why not just shoot target loads, it's easy on you and the GP. I never shoot anything over 1000 fps. That's why I have a 1989 GP with probably 35,000 rounds on it that works like new.

Because I don't plan on carrying the gun loaded with sub-1000 fps target loads, and I want to practice with something at least somewhere near the feel of what I'd be carrying with it.

[SwampDweller]

As long as your not shooting to fast 35k magnum rounds isn't going to hurt the gun either

What would too fast be? So that I don't do it

[SwampDweller]

Also, if I were to carry this with .38 Special +P's, what are the best loads for a 4" barrel service size revolver? I have about a hundred rounds of Remington 158gr LSWCHP +P I bought when I bought my 64-3 earlier this year, but are there more modern loads that would be better? I remember Chuck Haggard recommending the Gold Dot 135gr +P Short Barrel even for 4" revolvers, but I can't find that stuff in stock anywhere. I do see that the 125gr +P Gold Dot is available, but I can't find any testing or information on it.

[03RN]

What would too fast be? So that I don't do it

Regular 0.2 second splits

[SwampDweller]

Regular 0.2 second splits

Oh ok. I don't think I could do that even if I wanted to.

One thing I do like about revolvers is that it forces me to slow down and really pick my shots. At times I find it hard to justify carrying a 6-7 round all steel 4" barrel gun when I have 15-17 shot 9mms and 12-13 shot .45's, but if there is some increase in effectiveness with a good .357 Magnum loading, it helps, along with not having to worry about the kinds of malfunctions in actual shootings one sees in police bodycam videos, especially in vehicles (where I spend a lot of my time).

[03RN]

Also, if I were to carry this with .38 Special +P's, what are the best loads for a 4" barrel service size revolver? I have about a hundred rounds of Remington 158gr LSWCHP +P I bought when I bought my 64-3 earlier this year, but are there more modern loads that would be better? I remember Chuck Haggard recommending the Gold Dot 135gr +P Short Barrel even for 4" revolvers, but I can't find that stuff in stock anywhere. I do see that the 125gr +P Gold Dot is available, but I can't find any testing or information on it.
Target sports has gold dots in stock they're good.

These are actually pretty good performers too
https://www.sgammo.com/product/38-special-ammo/50-round-box-38-special-p-125-hollow-point-remington-umc-ammo-l38s2

If you can't find a bullet that penetrates as much as you want then just use a swc.

When I carry my .38s I use my hst reloads.

[03RN]

Oh ok. I don't think I could do that even if I wanted to.

One thing I do like about revolvers is that it forces me to slow down and really pick my shots. At times I find it hard to justify carrying a 6-7 round all steel 4" barrel gun when I have 15-17 shot 9mms and 12-13 shot .45's, but if there is some increase in effectiveness with a good .357 Magnum loading, it helps, along with not having to worry about the kinds of malfunctions in actual shootings one sees in police bodycam videos, especially in vehicles (where I spend a lot of my time).

I agree, ill carry a 4" m10 here and there because I live in the middle of nowhere

[dannyd93140]

What would too fast be? So that I don't do it

I shoot 38 special loads using 357 magnum cases because the only difference in the case is 1/10 of an inch. S&W did that in 1935, so people would not put a magnum round in an old 38 special revolver. Use 158 lead bullet at about 850 fps works great for paper and cardboard.

[SwampDweller]

Target sports has gold dots in stock they're good.

These are actually pretty good performers too
https://www.sgammo.com/product/38-special-ammo/50-round-box-38-special-p-125-hollow-point-remington-umc-ammo-l38s2

If you can't find a bullet that penetrates as much as you want then just use a swc.

When I carry my .38s I use my hst reloads.

I wonder what the penetration of that 125gr +p load is compared to the 158gr +P LSWCHP FBI load I have. Also, I don’t understand why Federal doesn’t just load their 9mm 147gr HST bullet in a .38 case. IIRC the .38 HST they were making a couple years ago was discontinued because of inconsistent results.

[revchuck38]

Also, if I were to carry this with .38 Special +P's, what are the best loads for a 4" barrel service size revolver? I have about a hundred rounds of Remington 158gr LSWCHP +P I bought when I bought my 64-3 earlier this year, but are there more modern loads that would be better? I remember Chuck Haggard recommending the Gold Dot 135gr +P Short Barrel even for 4" revolvers, but I can't find that stuff in stock anywhere. I do see that the 125gr +P Gold Dot is available, but I can't find any testing or information on it.

I use the R-P version of the FBI load in my 3"-4" revolvers, including my M19-3. The main advantage more modern loads have is better intermediate barrier performance. In addition to the GD-SB load, Winchester's Ranger Bonded 130-grain JHP works well, as does Federal's 130-grain HydraShok Deep.

[Rick R]

I’m thinking about carrying my 4.2” GP100 when out and about, bouncing thru the forest here East of the Mississippi.
It’s quite accurate and fun to shoot, kicking less than my 10mm GP100 and ammo is easier to find (kind of). Cheaper ammo is good when you have friends with plate racks and steel targets in their back yards. I can shoot my cast bullets in my home rolled ammo cheaper in .38/.357.

I’d like to carry .357 Magnum social ammo in it but pick’ns are slim and I’d like POA/POI to be similar to my handloads.

I can find modern Remington 158gr jhp ammo in 20 round boxes. It averages 1,270 fps out of my gun (over my chronograph) and accuracy is good. I can also find Fiocchi 158gr ammo that chrono’s at 1,080 but Fiocchi has changed from loading XTP’s to some faux XTP bullet that is of apparently dubious quality for expansion but reasonably accurate.
And last I can occasionally find Hornady ammo loaded with 125gr and 158gr XTPs at decent prices, in fact I have a box of each that I need to go shoot for accuracy and over the chrono. The Hornady Critical Whatever stuff runs 50% more $ per round than their other ammo and is harder to find reliably.

So what do .357 magnum shooters carry when they want to carry magnums?

[SwampDweller]

I’m thinking about carrying my 4.2” GP100 when out and about, bouncing thru the forest here East of the Mississippi.
It’s quite accurate and fun to shoot, kicking less than my 10mm GP100 and ammo is easier to find (kind of). Cheaper ammo is good when you have friends with plate racks and steel targets in their back yards. I can shoot my cast bullets in my home rolled ammo cheaper in .38/.357.

I’d like to carry .357 Magnum social ammo in it but pick’ns are slim and I’d like POA/POI to be similar to my handloads.

I can find modern Remington 158gr jhp ammo in 20 round boxes. It averages 1,270 fps out of my gun (over my chronograph) and accuracy is good. I can also find Fiocchi 158gr ammo that chrono’s at 1,080 but Fiocchi has changed from loading XTP’s to some faux XTP bullet that is of apparently dubious quality for expansion but reasonably accurate.
And last I can occasionally find Hornady ammo loaded with 125gr and 158gr XTPs at decent prices, in fact I have a box of each that I need to go shoot for accuracy and over the chrono. The Hornady Critical Whatever stuff runs 50% more $ per round than their other ammo and is harder to find reliably.

So what do .357 magnum shooters carry when they want to carry magnums?
I’m still in the process of figuring out the answer to this question but right now it seems like Remington 158gr SJHP is the main contender, followed by Critical Duty 135gr. I like that the CD is more of a “mid level” Magnum load but the grain weight means there might not be a practice version that hits the same POI.

I’m also interested in 125 and 158gr XTP but I cant find much on it.

[JonInWA]

Federal 158 gr HydraShok and Remington HTP 158 gr.

Best, Jon

[03RN]

https://youtu.be/DUS_VHoSrBY?si=v97jFgkoXUA7jchg

[BehindBlueI's]

Also, if I were to carry this with .38 Special +P's, what are the best loads for a 4" barrel service size revolver? I have about a hundred rounds of Remington 158gr LSWCHP +P I bought when I bought my 64-3 earlier this year, but are there more modern loads that would be better? I remember Chuck Haggard recommending the Gold Dot 135gr +P Short Barrel even for 4" revolvers, but I can't find that stuff in stock anywhere. I do see that the 125gr +P Gold Dot is available, but I can't find any testing or information on it.

Gold dot is good, I haven't see short barrel in stock anywhere for awhile, but any flavor seems to work as advertised. I like it.

PDX-1 was good, I assume they haven't changed it. Make sure it's the bonded kind, I may be misremembering but I *think* they had a non-bonded version at some point. It's what I used when I couldn't find Gold Dot for awhile.

If I were not prohibited by policy, I would have zero issue carrying the mentioned LSWC round. It may not be the most modern load, but it'll do it's job just fine.

[SwampDweller]

Gold dot is good, I haven't see short barrel in stock anywhere for awhile, but any flavor seems to work as advertised. I like it.

PDX-1 was good, I assume they haven't changed it. Make sure it's the bonded kind, I may be misremembering but I *think* they had a non-bonded version at some point. It's what I used when I couldn't find Gold Dot for awhile.

If I were not prohibited by policy, I would have zero issue carrying the mentioned LSWC round. It may not be the most modern load, but it'll do it's job just fine.

Yeah, it looks like TargetSports is out of the 135gr Gold Dot load as well. I’d love to find some. I have the LSWCHP so I guess that’ll be good enough for .38 needs.

For .357 I just got 175 rounds of the Critical Duty and I have a couple hundred rounds of Remington 158gr SJHP on the way. As mentioned before, I like the CD’s middle of the road approach to .357, but not sure I can find an adequate practice load to mimic it. Unless maybe I found a load that feels the same and sight in a dedicated trainer GP100 purely for said practice load, but that seems a bit impractical.

[Chuck Haggard]

Fairly small sample size, but I've yet to see one stay inside a human body when fired from a 4" or up barrel. Judging from the injuries and clothing, they came out expanded.

If that's a feature or a bug is up to the user and their needs.

The .357 version is very close to the 9mm +p in effect. Our troopers are carrying the 9mm on duty. From shootings I've got information on it appears that load dies what we saw with the 124gr +p Gold Dot, expands well, passes through even a large man sideways on a solid torso hit, might be trapped under the skin, but often exits.

A bullet exiting after expansion is not in my observation "over penetration", in that the bullet is not dangerous after the exit. We often found Gold Dots trapped in heavier clothing at exit, or on the ground a few yards away.

[SwampDweller]

The .357 version is very close to the 9mm +p in effect. Our troopers are carrying the 9mm on duty. From shootings I've got information on it appears that load dies what we saw with the 124gr +p Gold Dot, expands well, passes through even a large man sideways on a solid torso hit, might be trapped under the skin, but often exits.

A bullet exiting after expansion is not in my observation "over penetration", in that the bullet is not dangerous after the exit. We often found Gold Dots trapped in heavier clothing at exit, or on the ground a few yards away.

It sounds like there isn't any advantage to a Critical Duty .357 Mag 135gr over a 9mm 135gr +P out of equivalent service-sized handguns (such as a G19 and 4" GP100/Security Six) on a round-per-round basis. What about other loadings like the classic Remington 158gr SJHP full power load?

[JonInWA]

I've found Federal 158 gr HydraShok JHP to be very reliable in terms of ignition and accuracy, but I'll defer to others more knowledgeable in terms of bullet effectiveness.

Best, Jon

[BehindBlueI's]

The .357 version is very close to the 9mm +p in effect. Our troopers are carrying the 9mm on duty. From shootings I've got information on it appears that load dies what we saw with the 124gr +p Gold Dot, expands well, passes through even a large man sideways on a solid torso hit, might be trapped under the skin, but often exits.

A bullet exiting after expansion is not in my observation "over penetration", in that the bullet is not dangerous after the exit. We often found Gold Dots trapped in heavier clothing at exit, or on the ground a few yards away.

Through a driver's chest, side to side, through passenger's hand, into passenger door as an example. 9mm can certainly do the same, just send to me in a 4" and up the CD keeps on trucking more often than not. As said, small sample size, though, do with it what you will.

[SwampDweller]

I spent most of the day with my brother at the range today. We shot a lot of different guns, including both of my GP100s and his GP100. We had some issues with both of our 7-shot models. His had the issue since earlier this year but I wanted to see it myself, and then it started happening to mine.
His GP100: 7-shot polished blued .357 Magnum 4" barrel, some distributor exclusive.
My GP100s: 1 (One) Six-shot blued .357 Magnum 4" barrel standard model, and 1 (One) 7-shot stainless .357 Magnum 4" barrel

The first two cylinders through his was with Remington 130gr FMJ .38 Special, and there were no issues. Then I tried with Magtech .357 Magnum, and when trying to eject the spent casings, it was like the ejector rod was glued in place. Absolutely no amount of pushing on it with considerable strength was enough to even budge it. I let it sit for a while and then was able to poke the rounds out with a pen without any resistance (still wouldn't eject normally.)

Then I tried to load it with 7 rounds of Armscor 158gr FMJ .357 Magnum. The rims of some of the casings were overlapping and therefore the cylinder would not close. With some rearranging, somehow I was able to get it to. Shot 7 rounds and again, would not eject at all. Had to wait and poke the casings out.

So then I went to my 7 shot stainless GP100. I had shot this one before as documented in the OP of this thread with a mix of Specials and Magnums with no issues. I thought mine was fine. Well come today, I loaded it up with the same Magtech 158gr JSP .357 Mags, shot all 7, and the exact same thing happened as with his: the ejector rod would not budge even with considerable force. Then I encountered the same issue briefly with rims overlapping each other. Later I shot a cylinder of Remington 158gr SJHP .357 and it loaded and shot fine, but again, would absolutely refuse to eject until I waited a while and gave it a good smack on the shooting table's edge, which finally dislodged the casings but did not eject them fully.

I'm confused. I knew about earlier 7-shot GP100s having the case rims overlapping issue, but I thought they had fixed that. And then the casings being stuck in the chamber is something I thought didn't affect my example until today. I don't know if it's related to there not being enough room between the chambers for the rims not to overlap eachother with some manufacturers' ammunition, or if the chambers have to be made smaller, or a combination of both, but it is quite disheartening as I was very excited to have a reliable 7-shot .357 Magnum.

Now, my 6-shot GP100 with several hundred rounds through it of both Magnum and Special had no issues with any type and manufacturer of ammunition, which makes me suspect there is some sort of flaw with the 7-shot GP100's design. Unlike with the 686+, perhaps there's just physically not enough space to accommodate 7 rounds in the cylinder reliably. I'm interested to hear thoughts. I know I can send it back to Ruger and they'd make it right, but I don't think I'd be able to trust the 7-shot model again. Maybe they'd be willing to swap it out for another 6-shot SKU?

[mikey357]

Sounds like you DEFINITELY have an issue with the Magtech .357 Ammo in BOTH Seven-shot GP's--As far as the Guns not wanting to eject, I'd make sure ALL Chambers were squeaky-clean and DEGREASED--Not even any Oil present--And try again.
If the problem persists, I would Polish the Chambers a little bit and try one more time before sending the Gun(s) back to Ruger...

[SwampDweller]

Sounds like you DEFINITELY have an issue with the Magtech .357 Ammo in BOTH Seven-shot GP's--As far as the Guns not wanting to eject, I'd make sure ALL Chambers were squeaky-clean and DEGREASED--Not even any Oil present--And try again.
If the problem persists, I would Polish the Chambers a little bit and try one more time before sending the Gun(s) back to Ruger...

Apologies for not making it clearer in the post- it happened with four different manufacturers (two I didn't mention in my previous post). It happened with Magtech 158gr JSP, Remington 158gr SJHP (also Rem 125gr JSP), Barnes Tac-XPD 125gr .357, and Hornady Critical Duty (the last two of which I didn't mention as being a brand used). I don't think this is necessarily brand specific, and again, all worked fine in my 6-shot GP100 (as well as my brother's Colt Python), which were all degreased and clean. Both my 7-shot and 6-shot models shot the same Magtech and Remington ammo a couple of weeks prior without issue.

Just got home and we stopped by a steakhouse, so I'm still going over my notes and a good 12oz filet mignon makes me drowsy.

[gato naranja]

Apologies for not making it clearer in the post- it happened with four different manufacturers (two I didn't mention in my previous post). It happened with Magtech 158gr JSP, Remington 158gr SJHP (also Rem 125gr JSP), Barnes Tac-XPD 125gr .357, and Hornady Critical Duty (the last two of which I didn't mention as being a brand used). I don't think this is necessarily brand specific, and again, all worked fine in my 6-shot GP100 (as well as my brother's Colt Python), which were all degreased and clean. Both my 7-shot and 6-shot models shot the same Magtech and Remington ammo a couple of weeks prior without issue.

Puzzling.

If a variable like ambient temperature would be causing issues even with the same make/type of ammunition, that would be too fine a tightrope for me to walk very long.

[SwampDweller]

Puzzling.

If a variable like ambient temperature would be causing issues even with the same make/type of ammunition, that would be too fine a tightrope for me to walk very long.

Yeah, that's exactly how I feel. No matter what the variable is that determines whether the 7-shot GP100 chokes or not, it's not something I want to deal with. I'm going to see if Ruger would be willing to swap it for a 6 shot model of some sort. Maybe a 3". Even if they did fix mine I still don't think I would be able to trust it. I strongly suspect it is a dimensional issue that simply isn't surmountable without a significant redesign.

[gato naranja]

Yeah, that's exactly how I feel. No matter what the variable is that determines whether the 7-shot GP100 chokes or not, it's not something I want to deal with. I'm going to see if Ruger would be willing to swap it for a 6 shot model of some sort. Maybe a 3". Even if they did fix mine I still don't think I would be able to trust it. I strongly suspect it is a dimensional issue that simply isn't surmountable without a significant redesign.

A lot of thought went into the Security/Speed-Six - and eventually the GP-100 - which were optimized around .38/.357 dimensions, so when the seven-round versions were announced I was a bit suspicious that they might be a bridge too far. To me, the Redhawk seemed the better path to more than six rounds of .357 Magnum despite the increase in size.

Even Ruger themselves seem to be hedging a bit now, as the only 7-shot GP-100s on their current website are distributor exclusives.

[jh9]

I'm confused. I knew about earlier 7-shot GP100s having the case rims overlapping issue, but I thought they had fixed that. And then the casings being stuck in the chamber is something I thought didn't affect my example until today. I don't know if it's related to there not being enough room between the chambers for the rims not to overlap eachother with some manufacturers' ammunition, or if the chambers have to be made smaller, or a combination of both, but it is quite disheartening as I was very excited to have a reliable 7-shot .357 Magnum.

This is disappointing to hear. Are both of the 7-shot guns for-sure recent manufacture as opposed to new old stock?

This thread (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?44399-Are-GP100-7-shot-357-s-reliable-now&p=1107291&viewfull=1#post1107291) indicates they changed the diameter from 1.545" to 1.550". I wonder if they used the smaller cylinder stock by mistake on yours or if they reverted that change for another, different "fix". Can you mic your 7-shot cylinder and compare it to your 6-shot or the other shooter's 7?

[SwampDweller]

A lot of thought went into the Security/Speed-Six - and eventually the GP-100 - which were optimized around .38/.357 dimensions, so when the seven-round versions were announced I was a bit suspicious that they might be a bridge too far. To me, the Redhawk seemed the better path to more than six rounds of .357 Magnum despite the increase in size.

Even Ruger themselves seem to be hedging a bit now, as the only 7-shot GP-100s on their current website are distributor exclusives.

Originally I wanted to get an 8-shot Redhawk, but from my research here and elsewhere it seemed like it's plagued with problems as well. I would love to try the Redhawk in .357 but I don't really want to risk getting burned again.

[SwampDweller]

This is disappointing to hear. Are both of the 7-shot guns for-sure recent manufacture as opposed to new old stock?

This thread (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?44399-Are-GP100-7-shot-357-s-reliable-now&p=1107291&viewfull=1#post1107291) indicates they changed the diameter from 1.545" to 1.550". I wonder if they used the smaller cylinder stock by mistake on yours or if they reverted that change for another, different "fix". Can you mic your 7-shot cylinder and compare it to your 6-shot or the other shooter's 7?

Yes, that thread is what made me confident enough that they fixed the problems with the 7 shot GP100s, so I gave it a try. The 7 Shot I got a few months ago was a distributor exclusive from this year, so I don't think it was NOS. My brother's GP100 is also from a more recent distributor exclusive.

Unfortunately I don't have a micrometer. I will see if I can source one at work to use. If the issue is indeed they accidentally used the wrong cylinder, it happened to both me and my brother with different SKU's from different production runs.

Edit: my brother also got the bonus of another issue. At one point the double action pull didn't move the hammer at all. It didn't continue after that particular cylinder though.

[gato naranja]

I would love to try the Redhawk in .357 but I don't really want to risk getting burned again.

Perfectly understandable.

My own token trip back into revolvers was done with about fifty-odd years of information lodged in my cranium (some of it pretty dusty and behind other stuff), and I suppose a good deal of my final choice was influenced by having been burned and watching it happen to others.

I guess that I am content with my choice of the plain-Jane, 4" 6-shot GP-100 as as much for what it doesn't do as for what it does.

[jh9]

If the issue is indeed they accidentally used the wrong cylinder, it happened to both me and my brother with different SKU's from different production runs.

That part honestly wouldn't surprise me. If they did a batch of 7-shot cylinders on a smaller blank they could have ended up in any assortment of SKUs. I don't think they're making a lot of the 7-shot guns.

edit: that's just assumption on my part - still if you get the chance it would be interesting to know the cylinder diameter on the 2 misbehaving guns.

[SwampDweller]

That part honestly wouldn't surprise me. If they did a batch of 7-shot cylinders on a smaller blank they could have ended up in any assortment of SKUs. I don't think they're making a lot of the 7-shot guns.

edit: that's just assumption on my part - still if you get the chance it would be interesting to know the cylinder diameter on the 2 misbehaving guns.

I feel like I should but, I do not own a micrometer and I think there's a slim chance a coworker of mine might have one up to the task. I will ask on Wednesday this coming week and bring the revolver in question in case we're able to measure. Luckily I am able to bring guns to work openly. If he can't bring one then maybe he will be able to the next day or two. I'm not really sure what to measure, though. What matters to me is that the basic dimensions of recent 7-shot .357 Mag GP100s aren't conducive to reliable operation, and that's enough to make me swear off them.

It may be ridiculous to say that I might suspect the reliability of the 6-shot GP100s, but it does make me want to run a couple of hundred more rounds than normal through mine to make sure it's alright too. My worst fear would be that revolvers simply aren't made up to duty standards anymore as they were in the 20th century. I've had good luck with my 6-shot GP100, so I'm still going to try it out and see.

[gato naranja]

It may be ridiculous to say that I might suspect the reliability of the 6-shot GP100s, but it does make me want to run a couple of hundred more rounds than normal through mine to make sure it's alright too. My worst fear would be that revolvers simply aren't made up to duty standards anymore as they were in the 20th century. I've had good luck with my 6-shot GP100, so I'm still going to try it out and see.

Vetting needs to be done on everything. I personally believe that revolvers require a lower round count than semiautos, but I may be wrong about that like I have been wrong about the benevolence of many human institutions. The design bugs have been pretty well addressed on 6-shot GP-100s, but anything else is still a new kid on the block as far as I am concerned. I suspect that the 7-round GP-100 is a theroretically sound idea that butts its head against tolerance stacking; Ruger has to watch the tolerances on its own items, and then take it on faith that the ammo makers will hold up their end...

That is a thought which would keep me up at night.

[Rick R]

I'm interested to hear thoughts. I know I can send it back to Ruger and they'd make it right, but I don't think I'd be able to trust the 7-shot model again. Maybe they'd be willing to swap it out for another 6-shot SKU?

I’m of the opinion that revolvers holding other than six rounds are an abomination unto Sam Colt and to be viewed as heresy, however there should be a special dispensation for five shot revolvers if they are either chambered for very large cartridges or are very small revolvers.

But I’m a caveman too…

[awp_101]

I’m of the opinion that revolvers holding other than six rounds are an abomination unto Sam Colt and to be viewed as heresy, however there should be a special dispensation for five shot revolvers if they are either chambered for very large cartridges or are very small revolvers.

But I’m a caveman too…

I will make an exception for 8 and 10 shot .22 revolvers as well.

[Rick R]

I will make an exception for 8 and 10 shot .22 revolvers as well.

I’d go for that, even allowing that my sole .22 revolver is a 4 5/8” six shot Ruger Single Six that I found at Cabela’s Gun Library a few years ago. 6+ chambered rimfires are fun enhancers.

[SwampDweller]

UPDATE: I finally received a response from Ruger and got the normal canned message of send it in (which is fine, that's what I was expecting). Being what looked like a prewritten message, they didn't address my request to replace my 7-shot GP100 with a 6-shot one, but I'm hoping they'll do that once they have the gun.

[SwampDweller]

Ruger will not simply exchange this defective 7 shot model for a 6 shot. They will only do so if they can’t fix the 7 shot, which doesn’t help me because I suspect this is a dimensional issue of physical limitations and I will never trust this thing regardless. They won’t give a refund either.

I guess I just have to have them “repair” it and then sell it with full disclosure, because I’m not keeping it.

A bit disappointed.

[gato naranja]

Ruger will not simply exchange this defective 7 shot model for a 6 shot. They will only do so if they can’t fix the 7 shot, which doesn’t help me because I suspect this is a dimensional issue of physical limitations and I will never trust this thing regardless. They won’t give a refund either.

I guess I just have to have them “repair” it and then sell it with full disclosure, because I’m not keeping it.

A bit disappointed.

You may find an LGS that will be happy to swap you for the sixgun flavor, as John Q. has apparently decided that six rounds will get him killed in the street and he needs seven. Given the average end-user, it's a harmless affectation if the thing can be vetted.

Personally, I am at the point in life where I would probably need something belt fed to really get my way out of a serious spot, so I no longer give a slim-tailed, large barnyard rodent's exhaust that my 100 holds six and my 101 holds (gasp!) five.

[SwampDweller]

You may find an LGS that will be happy to swap you for the sixgun flavor, as John Q. has apparently decided that six rounds will get him killed in the street and he needs seven. Given the average end-user, it's a harmless affectation if the thing can be vetted.

Personally, I am at the point in life where I would probably need something belt fed to really get my way out of a serious spot, so I no longer give a slim-tailed, large barnyard rodent's exhaust that my 100 holds six and my 101 holds (gasp!) five.

I would have to go to a different gun shop since I work at the one I've been using to ship this out. I could simply not ship it off tomorrow and do that. Hm...

[SwampDweller]

The 7 shot GP100 was shipped off today to Ruger. My hope is that they determine the revolver cannot be properly fixed and they replace it with a 6 round version as requested. I left that request on the note I put in the box. If they send the 7 shot one back, I’m just going to sell or trade it in order to get a 6 shot stainless one. I do believe that the 7 shot GP100s in .357 are inherently flawed.

[03RN]

Which they may be but I've seen some that had no issues with any ammo. I wouldn't reflexively dump it. I'd definitely try it first.

It's not like you even need to shoot it. Just try different brass.

[Tannhauser]

Which they may be but I've seen some that had no issues with any ammo. I wouldn't reflexively dump it. I'd definitely try it first.

It's not like you even need to shoot it. Just try different brass.

I agree. The 7 shot GP-100 design is not inherently flawed. This is a tolerance issue that happens during manufacturing. I’m certain the CAD being used to manufacture the cylinders shows chamber placement that works. Unfortunately it seems the execution can’t meet the intent on some revolvers.

I think you can determine very quickly if the returned revolver still has issues.

[SwampDweller]

Which they may be but I've seen some that had no issues with any ammo. I wouldn't reflexively dump it. I'd definitely try it first.

It's not like you even need to shoot it. Just try different brass.

I know this is OCD and a bit ridiculous of me, but I don't think I could trust it again after it happening so consistently, with my brother's right beside me doing the exact same thing right out of the box. Even if it is fixed, there will always be that doubt in the back of my mind. Considering the price of .357 and how much of it I would need to shoot to start to prove to myself it's good to go, I would feel better just getting another 6 shot stainless to go with my blued one, as it has been good.

Speaking of which, I shot 88 rounds of Magnums through my 4" blued 6 shot GP100 today. It was a mix of Remington 158gr SJHP, Magtech 158gr SJSP, Barnes 125gr HP, Hornady Critical Duty 135gr, and Hornady 125gr XTP. All ran fine, but by the last cylinder, closing it felt a little stiff, but it never stopped working.

Unfortunately I forgot my screwdriver and all of the ammo was hitting significantly high at 21 feet. However, the Critical Duty didn't seem all that much more off than the 158gr, which I wasn't expecting.

Those Hogue Tamers really make a huge difference. At no point was I tiring of Magnums and there was no pain in the web of my hand. It was exceedingly comfortable to shoot and very controllable.

[vtfarmer]

I agree. The 7 shot GP-100 design is not inherently flawed. This is a tolerance issue that happens during manufacturing. I’m certain the CAD being used to manufacture the cylinders shows chamber placement that works. Unfortunately it seems the execution can’t meet the intent on some revolvers.

I think you can determine very quickly if the returned revolver still has issues.

Agreed. I've been working with a recent production 7 shot the past year. The cases in my handloading inventory, that would rimlock every time in the early production 7 shot, work just fine in this gun.

[SwampDweller]

I just noticed that on my 6 shot blued GP100, the trigger gets noticeably sticky half way through the double action pull on one of the chambers. It basically stops and I have to pull a bit harder for it to complete its cycle. Is this a timing issue? I don’t recall ever experiencing it before, including while shooting yesterday. It actually does it on two chambers, one noticeably more than the other.

I have a total of 391 rounds through this revolver, a mix of Specials and Magnums.

[JAH 3rd]

On my GP100 stainless so far I have used snap caps to wear in the action. Without notice, I pull the trigger and it completely stops about half-way back. I rotate the cylinder back one notch to the offending cylinder and the trigger pulls straight back and releases the hammer. In other words, I can't reproduce the malfunction. The malfunction happens on a very random basis. This does not instill confidence. It's ironic that I decided on a 6-shot cylinder due to the issue associated with the 7-shot one. Man, that karma bites me once again.

[SwampDweller]

On my GP100 stainless so far I have used snap caps to wear in the action. Without notice, I pull the trigger and it completely stops about half-way back. I rotate the cylinder back one notch to the offending cylinder and the trigger pulls straight back and releases the hammer. In other words, I can't reproduce the malfunction. The malfunction happens on a very random basis. This does not instill confidence. It's ironic that I decided on a 6-shot cylinder due to the issue associated with the 7-shot one. Man, that karma bites me once again.

After getting burned by my 7 shot stainless, it appears my 6 shot blued model is also starting to develop an issue after over 1 year and 391 rounds. Up to this point I thought it was good to go.

Makes me discouraged about .357 Magnum current production revolvers in general.

[Tarrrnation!]

Folks, I have 2 7 shot gp100s (3 inchers) and one 4 inch 6 shot. Except for one with tight chambers that resolved once I purchased and received a chamber reamer kit (typical for my luck) they have all been flawless running mostly my own 158 grain reloads + factory ammo totaling 2500 mixed .38s + much smaller numbers of .357 through one of the 7 shot 3 inch (also has a bobbed hammer so only DA shooting) and the 4 inch Match Champion. I have purchased all of them new from 2022 forward.
They’re not all riddled with issues!

[SwampDweller]

Man, I wish I had your luck. Not only did my 7 shot have to go back, but my 6 shot seems to be developing problems as well.

[SwampDweller]

Here are two pictures of the point in the trigger stroke where the trigger pull hits a very heavy wall and takes more force to complete the cycle. These are two adjoining chambers doing this.

I'm curious what might be causing this?

113941
113942

[Squib308]

Ruger’s firearms have always been inconsistent for me, but their CS is consistently excellent. I’d really give them a chance to work on the GP100. Ultimately if it’s still problematic they will replace it. But gotta give them a chance to do their part.

I’ve had a problematic GP100 4” blued model circa 2015. Ruger eventually replaced it. Same with my 22lr model. Other GP100’s have been fine. Can’t speak for the 7 shot model other than I really want one!

[Tarrrnation!]

Man, I wish I had your luck. Not only did my 7 shot have to go back, but my 6 shot seems to be developing problems as well.

Sorry SwampDweller—That would be pretty frustrating. I have alway had above average customer service from them. I hope they take care of you.

[BehindBlueI's]

Here are two pictures of the point in the trigger stroke where the trigger pull hits a very heavy wall and takes more force to complete the cycle. These are two adjoining chambers doing this.

I'm curious what might be causing this?

113941
113942

The only time I've had a revolver be heavy at certain point in they cylinder rotation was due to either:'

1) Unburnt powder or the like under the extractor star in that area, easily solved by brushing it out.

2) Bent crane. Only experienced that once, on a Taurus 85CH I bought used in the early 00s.

[SwampDweller]

The only time I've had a revolver be heavy at certain point in they cylinder rotation was due to either:'

1) Unburnt powder or the like under the extractor star in that area, easily solved by brushing it out.

2) Bent crane. Only experienced that once, on a Taurus 85CH I bought used in the early 00s.

I did extensive scrubbing and cleaning under the exactor star the night after I shot it. Weirdly enough it wasn't even that dirty.

Doing my best to look for any gaps between the crane and the cylinder when closed, I can't really see anything off, but then again I may not know exactly what to look for. For what it's worth, I've never done the idiot move of slamming the cylinder shut by jerking the revolver to the right.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I do remember not too long after I got it, I thought at least one of the trigger pulls felt a tad bit heavier than the others, but after a bunch of dry practice I ended up writing it off as me being too anal (something I'm prone to regarding guns, but that could be because I've gotten legitimately burned so many times). Maybe this was always an underlying issue that only came to obviously surface now after getting almost 400 rounds through it? Two days ago was the first time I shot it completely with Magnums only (Remington 158gr, Hornady XTP 125gr, Barnes 125gr). It was a total of 88 rounds, all Magnums. Most other times were an even mix of Specials and Magnums.

[Rick R]

Here are two pictures of the point in the trigger stroke where the trigger pull hits a very heavy wall and takes more force to complete the cycle. These are two adjoining chambers doing this.

I'm curious what might be causing this?


My 6” 629 Classic had a hitch on one chamber that I decided was due to a burr on the cylinder. I went over all the notches with a hard stone and the hitch eventually worked itself out. One of those guns I should have never traded off.

[03RN]

After getting burned by my 7 shot stainless, it appears my 6 shot blued model is also starting to develop an issue after over 1 year and 391 rounds. Up to this point I thought it was good to go.

Makes me discouraged about .357 Magnum current production revolvers in general.

I think you need to take it apart and give it a deep clean. Maybe stone the internals

[03RN]

The only time I've had a revolver be heavy at certain point in they cylinder rotation was due to either:'

1) Unburnt powder or the like under the extractor star in that area, easily solved by brushing it out.

2) Bent crane. Only experienced that once, on a Taurus 85CH I bought used in the early 00s.

My m19 did that when the gas ring loosened

[SwampDweller]

I think you need to take it apart and give it a deep clean. Maybe stone the internals

I am going to take it apart and clean the internals... I don't really trust myself with taking a stone to them though. I have no experience with that type of thing, admittedly.

Assuming this isn't just a cleaning issue and it actually is a QC issue with the gun (though I would find it weird 391 rounds caused this, almost all jacketed ammunition and not bare lead), I'm wondering if my best bet to get a reliable out of the box .357 would be to find a new/unfired Model 28 Highway Patrolman or something. But then there's spare parts and what to do when/if there's a breakage. I managed to find a 25-2 unfired, and I do see M28's unfired from time to time. Actually to be honest, I just want an M28 anyway to go with my Rugers and M25-2.

[Crazy Dane]

I am going to take it apart and clean the internals... I don't really trust myself with taking a stone to them though. I have no experience with that type of thing, admittedly.

Assuming this isn't just a cleaning issue and it actually is a QC issue with the gun (though I would find it weird 391 rounds caused this, almost all jacketed ammunition and not bare lead), I'm wondering if my best bet to get a reliable out of the box .357 would be to find a new/unfired Model 28 Highway Patrolman or something. But then there's spare parts and what to do when/if there's a breakage. I managed to find a 25-2 unfired, and I do see M28's unfired from time to time. Actually to be honest, I just want an M28 anyway to go with my Rugers and M25-2.


Ruger SP101 Trigger Job Guide (kevinsworkbench.com) (https://www.kevinsworkbench.com/sp101trigger/)

This works for the GP100 too. I have done all of my Rugers to some extent by following this guide, just do what you are comfortable doing. I improved a really bad gritty trigger (I would have sent it back but he insisted) on a coworker's gun by doing steps 21 - 23 on the latch/trigger return spring

[03RN]

I am going to take it apart and clean the internals... I don't really trust myself with taking a stone to them though. I have no experience with that type of thing, admittedly.

Assuming this isn't just a cleaning issue and it actually is a QC issue with the gun (though I would find it weird 391 rounds caused this, almost all jacketed ammunition and not bare lead), I'm wondering if my best bet to get a reliable out of the box .357 would be to find a new/unfired Model 28 Highway Patrolman or something. But then there's spare parts and what to do when/if there's a breakage. I managed to find a 25-2 unfired, and I do see M28's unfired from time to time. Actually to be honest, I just want an M28 anyway to go with my Rugers and M25-2.

Older guns had random problems too. They just didn't have the Internet back then.

I'd be just as Leary of a 60 year old unfired gun as I would anything else.

[gato naranja]

Older guns had random problems too. They just didn't have the Internet back then.

I'd be just as Leary of a 60 year old unfired gun as I would anything else.

Three new things that didn't work would get the grownups all wound-up: cars, lawnmowers and guns. You are right about new guns even then; a lot of them got hauled to the LGS that had both a gunsmith and a reputation. There was indeed more QC on a brand-name firearm before it left the factory back then, but they weren't all perfect. I remember guys breaking in guns as carefully as they broke in their cars, and some of either would take their sweet time.

[SwampDweller]

Older guns had random problems too. They just didn't have the Internet back then.

I'd be just as Leary of a 60 year old unfired gun as I would anything else.

I could be wrong, but I get the impression that QC was higher on revolvers back then since they were modern issue service handguns at the time with forged components. These days I get the feeling S&W sees the revolver line as more of a consumer/recreational market thing. Again, I could be wrong.

[SwampDweller]

Looking into what I'm going to replace my 7-shot GP100 with, I've discovered that TK Custom will sell a stainless 6 shot 4" GP100 with the option of hand work done to it with a Basic Action Job and Cylinder Chamfering. There are options for moonclip cuts and a more advanced action job, but after corresponding with the owner, who has assured me the gun will be looked over and hand worked to make sure there's no defects, I think that is the route I'm going to go (basic action job, cylinder honing, cylinder chamfering). It's more for the additional QC than the action job and cylinder chamfering, but those are a bonus.

[gato naranja]

I had forgotten about this because it was a while back and not my gun, but a new Ruger SP101 4" .357 that was the first one I had seen was not behaving for its owner, and the trouble ended up being a combination of a marginally fitted hand and some tolerance stacking. I installed a new hand and checking via my magnifier made sure there were no burrs on the ratchet or the cylinder stop notches. It still required a little use before I thought it was as good as it could be, but the owner was happy enough right away.

That turned out to be a very nice launcher of .38 Specials and a dandy - if a bit long - compromise between a kit gun and a utility revolver.

[jh9]

I am going to take it apart and clean the internals... I don't really trust myself with taking a stone to them though. I have no experience with that type of thing, admittedly.

No time like the present to get that experience then. Like the 1911 shooter that needs to "be their own armorer" the DA revolver shooter is in the same boat. I used to caveat that as "at least, used in any real volume." Maybe with the state of things you need it out of the gate. Otherwise the answer is the same as it ever was: sell it and buy a Glock 19. This isn't likely to be very enjoyable unless you're willing to get some grit under your fingernails.

Doing things like taking the high spots off the side of the trigger/hammer, fitting a hand, replacing a cylinder stop, etc isn't difficult to learn. I don't know enough about Ruger DAs to have an informed opinion on the kevinsworkbench.com link. But that's certainly the type of place to start.

Plenty (https://everygunpart.com/handgun-kits/revolver.html?manufacturer=62) of GP-100 "kits" here. Under $200 gets you a hammer and complete (seeming) trigger assembly along with other hard parts like the cylinder and barrel you could possibly use to recover some of the cost. If you're reticent, then tinker with those and leave your original parts alone.

[gato naranja]

There are options for moonclip cuts and a more advanced action job, but after corresponding with the owner, who has assured me the gun will be looked over and hand worked to make sure there's no defects, I think that is the route I'm going to go (basic action job, cylinder honing, cylinder chamfering). It's more for the additional QC than the action job and cylinder chamfering, but those are a bonus.

The only thing I consider my GP-100 to lack are chamfered cylinders. I don't NEED them, but I would like to have them.

I am just too lazy/cheap to have it done.

[358156hp]

I think you need to take it apart and give it a deep clean. Maybe stone the internals

It probably does need a cleaning. I'd be surprised if there were any burrs raised on the internal pieces, Rugers internal parts are harder than the hinges of hell and I've never seen any that are damaged. Yet. If there is anything like this going on internally I'd be more inclined to think that a small piece of displaced steel swarf broke loose from an area that was less than well machined. I saw a lot of this in an early SP101 I did for a customer several years back.

[SwampDweller]

No time like the present to get that experience then. Like the 1911 shooter that needs to "be their own armorer" the DA revolver shooter is in the same boat. I used to caveat that as "at least, used in any real volume." Maybe with the state of things you need it out of the gate. Otherwise the answer is the same as it ever was: sell it and buy a Glock 19. This isn't likely to be very enjoyable unless you're willing to get some grit under your fingernails.

Doing things like taking the high spots off the side of the trigger/hammer, fitting a hand, replacing a cylinder stop, etc isn't difficult to learn. I don't know enough about Ruger DAs to have an informed opinion on the kevinsworkbench.com link. But that's certainly the type of place to start.

Plenty (https://everygunpart.com/handgun-kits/revolver.html?manufacturer=62) of GP-100 "kits" here. Under $200 gets you a hammer and complete (seeming) trigger assembly along with other hard parts like the cylinder and barrel you could possibly use to recover some of the cost. If you're reticent, then tinker with those and leave your original parts alone.

I suppose it is time for me to cut my teeth on minor revolver tinkering. I feel more comfortable doing it on a Ruger with easily obtained spare parts (thanks for the link btw) than something like a S&W, especially an older one.

I’m already well stocked with multiple G19s, mags, and equipment. But I find myself drawn to revolvers, HKs in .45 and the Glock 21 more.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I did take the 6 shot Gp100 apart last night and gave it a good cleaning, spraying it out with CLP and lightly lubricating with the TWS stuff Ruger recommends. The trigger is still having the same issue on two chambers in particular. I didn’t see any burrs or debris, and I couldn’t tell anything off just by looking at the parts.

[BehindBlueI's]

It probably does need a cleaning. I'd be surprised if there were any burrs raised on the internal pieces, Rugers internal parts are harder than the hinges of hell and I've never seen any that are damaged.

My Redhawk .45 came with a burr on the hammer that was significant enough to drag on the frame, which contributed to light strikes in DA mode until I had a gunsmith fix it.

[SwampDweller]

My Redhawk .45 came with a burr on the hammer that was significant enough to drag on the frame, which contributed to light strikes in DA mode until I had a gunsmith fix it.

Your testimonies on the .45 Colt/ACP Redhawk is why I passed on that. Originally it was my first choice. Were the problems only shooting .45 ACP or did .45 Colt have issues also? Regardless I don’t think they produce it anymore.

[Stephanie B]

On my GP100 stainless so far I have used snap caps to wear in the action. Without notice, I pull the trigger and it completely stops about half-way back. I rotate the cylinder back one notch to the offending cylinder and the trigger pulls straight back and releases the hammer. In other words, I can't reproduce the malfunction. The malfunction happens on a very random basis. This does not instill confidence. It's ironic that I decided on a 6-shot cylinder due to the issue associated with the 7-shot one. Man, that karma bites me once again.

When it happens, keep pressure on the trigger and inspect the barrel-cylinder gap. Possibly it's binding from time to time.

[BehindBlueI's]

Your testimonies on the .45 Colt/ACP Redhawk is why I passed on that. Originally it was my first choice. Were the problems only shooting .45 ACP or did .45 Colt have issues also? Regardless I don’t think they produce it anymore.

IIRC, markedly worse with .45 Auto but not 100% reliable with either.

Now that it's cleaned up and has a longer firing pin installed, 100%. Or near as any man-made machine can be.

[gato naranja]

Or near as any man-made machine can be.

I have had that caveat driven home more than once.

Years ago I argued in a forum about how trustworthy one of my sentimental favorites had been. After my taking umbrage at someone who had a better memory, the synapses started to fire and suddenly the "exceptions" came walking out of the past and I realized that the reliability I was touting was more provisional than actual. "As long as I held it upright... and got the magazine seated correctly... and didn't ease the bolt forward on a round... etc, etc."

Since that time, I am considerably more circumspect. No matter how well I do my vetting, I know that the perfect storm is not out of the question.

[JAH 3rd]

Thanks Stephanie B, will do!

[gato naranja]

I have been trying to recall what were the biggest problems I had with the GP-100s I had before I basically exited the revolver world. This is more or less in numerical order and does not include stuff so out of spec to begin with that required a trip back to the factory (like b/c gap issues). Despite potential pitfalls, I still would much prefer self-smithing a Ruger DA to trying to cure a S&W on my own. YMMV.

1. Pieces of debris in the guns was easily number one. I learned that I had to disassemble any new Ruger DA and clean them thoroughly, because there was ALWAYS at least one significant piece of metal somewhere, even when the gun seemed normal. Foreign object removal was what spurred me to get Iowegian's Book of Knowledge (IBOK) for the GP-100 and maybe save myself from making things worse. (I can always make things worse.) It was a great resource but is hard to find today.

2. The hole in the trigger guard assembly for the trigger link plunger/trigger guard latch spring/trigger guard latch was a multiple offender. Burrs and/or crap making the trigger action inconsistent. If there was a stage in the process of making a GP-100 where a cutter or bit went to die, this was the place. "Change my mind," as Crowder says.

3. Either the pawl or the ratchet having a burr. If it was the pawl, the problem was consistent; if the ratchet, different chambers were affected.

4. Transfer bar not freely sliding/pivoting.

5. Burr on the hammer or grit at the hammer/hammer strut interface. (Here I will mention that the self-inflicted issue of a hammer strut or mainspring seat flipped around can also be embarrassing).

6. Burr/machine mark on the cylinder latch where it would rub on the cylinder before lock-up. This is one that surprised me.

Time for a confession: I still consider DA revolver service to be sort of an art form compared to work on SA revolvers or (most) semiautomatics.

[SwampDweller]

I have been trying to recall what were the biggest problems I had with the GP-100s I had before I basically exited the revolver world. This is more or less in numerical order and does not include stuff so out of spec to begin with that required a trip back to the factory (like b/c gap issues). Despite potential pitfalls, I still would much prefer self-smithing a Ruger DA to trying to cure a S&W on my own. YMMV.

1. Pieces of debris in the guns was easily number one. I learned that I had to disassemble any new Ruger DA and clean them thoroughly, because there was ALWAYS at least one significant piece of metal somewhere, even when the gun seemed normal. Foreign object removal was what spurred me to get Iowegian's Book of Knowledge (IBOK) for the GP-100 and maybe save myself from making things worse. (I can always make things worse.) It was a great resource but is hard to find today.

2. The hole in the trigger guard assembly for the trigger link plunger/trigger guard latch spring/trigger guard latch was a multiple offender. Burrs and/or crap making the trigger action inconsistent. If there was a stage in the process of making a GP-100 where a cutter or bit went to die, this was the place. "Change my mind," as Crowder says.

3. Either the pawl or the ratchet having a burr. If it was the pawl, the problem was consistent; if the ratchet, different chambers were affected.

4. Transfer bar not freely sliding/pivoting.

5. Burr on the hammer or grit at the hammer/hammer strut interface. (Here I will mention that the self-inflicted issue of a hammer strut or mainspring seat flipped around can also be embarrassing).

6. Burr/machine mark on the cylinder latch where it would rub on the cylinder before lock-up. This is one that surprised me.

Time for a confession: I still consider DA revolver service to be sort of an art form compared to work on SA revolvers or (most) semiautomatics.

Well, my plan for my next revolver is to get a TK Custom worked-over GP100. They go through the gun and do an action job, and the owner has told me they do make sure everything is in spec while they do it. I'm hoping that's actually true and it will be good to go out of the box.

[358156hp]

My Redhawk .45 came with a burr on the hammer that was significant enough to drag on the frame, which contributed to light strikes in DA mode until I had a gunsmith fix it.

See what happens when I make an absolute statement? I must not be working on enough later production Rugers.:)

[Hambo]

I could be wrong, but I get the impression that QC was higher on revolvers back then since they were modern issue service handguns at the time with forged components.

You're wrong. Google "Bangor Punta Years". Colt had somewhat fragile lockwork and crappy fitting of 1911s. S&W had a variety of problems at different times. However, gun shops had gunsmiths, not parts changer/armorers. Even the small town I lived in had one with a lathe, a vertical mill, and enough skill to work on anything. Even in a small town, he had enough work to provide a living.

Another thing: no one expected perfection. They expected malfunctions in semiautos or work to be done on revolvers. The idea that your firearms will be perfect from day one is relatively new.

Because cars were mentioned, they were the same as guns. You knew you were going to get the ignition timing and carburetor tuned, and that you couldn't just turn the key on any car and have it fire up.

[gato naranja]

You're wrong. Google "Bangor Punta Years". Colt had somewhat fragile lockwork and crappy fitting of 1911s. S&W had a variety of problems at different times. However, gun shops had gunsmiths, not parts changer/armorers. Even the small town I lived in had one with a lathe, a vertical mill, and enough skill to work on anything. Even in a small town, he had enough work to provide a living.

1911s were indeed a staple of the area gunsmiths as far back as I can remember. The GI ones slumbered in drawers, while the newer ones were alternately being used and being fixed in a closed loop.

When I was a kid, it was a half-hour drive right to the door of the nearest sporting goods store that had a full-time gunsmith equipped with all the machine tools you describe. There weren't many real gunsmiths in the area because that part of Iowa was relatively sparse in population. The guy stayed very busy despite a reputation for being gruff, but I was a kid that didn't go in there pretending to know more than he did and we got along fine. Adult men annually bringing in their broken or limping guns two days before some season started would really get his goat, and then it was best to stay in the retail part of the store.

Anyway, it wasn't all obsolete or low-end stuff he was fixing, and there was always some relatively recent high end iron up there with a repair tag tied to it. In fact, one of the reasons people bought their "better" firearms at MSRP there - besides Iowa having fair-trade laws in those days - was the fact that they could get most problems "fixed" on-site without having to ship the gun to the factory. That was a consideration even in pre-'68 days.

From time to time there would be some guy helping him out in the shop with stuff like cleaning dirt and vegetable matter out of filthy long-recoil semiauto shotguns or replacing broken/bent/missing springs... springs of some sort probably being the most common bad actors in those days. Ruger handguns were the least likely to have a broken spring, about everything else having at least one spring somewhere that was susceptible to something-or-other.

[SwampDweller]

You're wrong. Google "Bangor Punta Years". Colt had somewhat fragile lockwork and crappy fitting of 1911s. S&W had a variety of problems at different times. However, gun shops had gunsmiths, not parts changer/armorers. Even the small town I lived in had one with a lathe, a vertical mill, and enough skill to work on anything. Even in a small town, he had enough work to provide a living.

Another thing: no one expected perfection. They expected malfunctions in semiautos or work to be done on revolvers. The idea that your firearms will be perfect from day one is relatively new.

Because cars were mentioned, they were the same as guns. You knew you were going to get the ignition timing and carburetor tuned, and that you couldn't just turn the key on any car and have it fire up.

Fair point. Would you say that current Smith revolvers are better made than the ones of yesteryear? (Pre lock, pre MIM, forged parts, etc)

[Hambo]

Fair point. Would you say that current Smith revolvers are better made than the ones of yesteryear? (Pre lock, pre MIM, forged parts, etc)

S&W had quality ups and downs for decades. New revolvers are probably better than some BP era revolvers, but definitely not as good 1930s-1950s, maybe 1960s era. The biggest problem with Smith, IMO, other than QC, is the lack of support (armorers, gunsmiths, parts) for revolvers.

gato naranja's post reminded me that back in the early 1980s, troopers carried their own .357s. I was told that Ruger was the most reliable, followed by S&W (esp. when the 681 became their issued revolver), followed by Colt.

FWIW on your Ruger. If it were me, I'd find brass that doesn't rim lock and drive on. Also FWIW, depending on how well a cylinder is machined, you may find that rims are thicker on some ammo brands and cause drag. Recessed chambers would solve both of those problems, but that's probably gone forever.

[gato naranja]

gato naranja's post reminded me that back in the early 1980s, troopers carried their own .357s. I was told that Ruger was the most reliable, followed by S&W (esp. when the 681 became their issued revolver), followed by Colt.

The city forces of my childhood were pretty dismally armed by today's standards, with very basic S&W and Colt .38 Specials of no particular merit, some of them - and their carriers - a bit long in the tooth. When they hired a local lad who had come back from military service in the 1970's, the PTB were aghast at his carrying a Model 29, and he was persuaded to downgrade to a Model 27 (IIRC... might have been a Model 28, but I think the former). He proved too honest for some local rich men whose spoiled sons were involved in the local drug traffic of those days.

Anyway, it was the county sheriff's offices where the "good stuff" was carried and fussed over. By those days, anything that wasn't a .357 was rare. No group is immune from notions of style, and the Colt Python was the "image" revolver, followed by the Smiths (the bigger the frame, the more the cachet), and Ruger's Security Six was the "upstart" that was stirring the pot. I well remember how different-looking the Ruger DAs struck me, though they were not bad looking guns for all their more "utilitarian" lines and comparatively sedate finishes.

The amount of issues each make had did appear to be in inverse order of the above "stylishness" spectrum. One of the deputies I had a nodding acquaintance with was something of a pragmatic gun guy and he became a big fan of the Security Six; a bit of a character in some ways, he was wont to chide other LEOs who had trouble with their "classics." It was pretty well established by the time the various departments switched to semiautos that the Rugers had lower rates of failure given similar amounts of care and use. The older gunsmith of my choice was of that opinion as well ("(NONE) of them work if they're dirty," he growled).

The last big adventure in gunplay before I moved away from the area involved some gymnastics across the cruiser and the ability of a Security Six to penetrate a vehicle. When I heard the details, I was a bit surprised by how smartly the middle-aged deputy could move, but not by how well his weapon worked and what kind of shooting he did. The whole lot are now either long-retired or have recently passed away; as with railroaders and teachers, they don't make them like that anymore. Most of those guys parted with wheelguns rather reluctantly, feeling that a big .357 was the best controllable long-range medicine they ever had. They liked their revolvers big and their Mopar interceptors bigger out on the wide-open prairie in those days.

[SwampDweller]

Ruger is honoring my initial request and are replacing the 7 shot GP100 with a 6 shot. However, after my 6 shot developing some kind of issue, I'm considering the following:
1. Keep the revolver and send it off to Gemini Custom for their "Essential" job and request they do a QC check and fix anything that might need to be fixed while they're doing the action job.
2. Sell the revolver and put the money towards a TK Custom GP100 with an action job, which I assume would mean they'll have everything set up correctly in the gun and would head off any potential QC issues.
3. Just shoot it and see if it develops any problems.

After shooting several hundred rounds each in two GP100s only to find they were defective, #3 doesn't really seem that appealing to me. I'd rather pay some money up front to make sure someone who knows what they're doing make sure everything is set up right.

[03RN]

I vote for shooting it first.

Smoothing out the insides is something you can do. Unless there's something actually wrong with it I think it's a waste of money.

[gato naranja]

Ruger is honoring my initial request and are replacing the 7 shot GP100 with a 6 shot. However, after my 6 shot developing some kind of issue, I'm considering the following:
1. Keep the revolver and send it off to Gemini Custom for their "Essential" job and request they do a QC check and fix anything that might need to be fixed while they're doing the action job.
2. Sell the revolver and put the money towards a TK Custom GP100 with an action job, which I assume would mean they'll have everything set up correctly in the gun and would head off any potential QC issues.
3. Just shoot it and see if it develops any problems.

After shooting several hundred rounds each in two GP100s only to find they were defective, #3 doesn't really seem that appealing to me. I'd rather pay some money up front to make sure someone who knows what they're doing make sure everything is set up right.

I'd be tempted to start with #3 and then move to #1 if something got my dander up. It's a GP-100, not a Korth or a Manurhin, so it isn't going to be a priceless work of art to begin with (FWIW, one can interchange "S&W" for "GP-100").

For me, the smoothing out and troubleshooting journey WRT the GP-100/SP101 was the important part, not the arrival. I learned some things, gained some confidence and ended up having a bit of fun. Sure, I'd prefer a Gemini job to my own work, but either way is okay.

[revchuck38]

I'd be tempted to start with #3 and then move to #1 if something got my dander up. It's a GP-100, not a Korth or a Manurhin, so it isn't going to be a priceless work of art to begin with (FWIW, one can interchange "S&W" for "GP-100").

+1. Remember too that if you sell it, it'll be priced as a used gun even if you don't shoot it.

[358156hp]

I could be wrong, but I get the impression that QC was higher on revolvers back then since they were modern issue service handguns at the time with forged components. These days I get the feeling S&W sees the revolver line as more of a consumer/recreational market thing. Again, I could be wrong.

It only seems that way right now because we now have the internet, and back then we didn't. We all know how the internet works, you tell me something, and I post it somewhere for 20 people to read. Those 20 people each pass the information on elsewhere, and another group picks up the info and forwards it. This happens over and over and eventually hundreds of people are all saying the same thing. Then if gets back to me and I tell you "well, everybody knows that, it's all over the internet".:)

[SwampDweller]

I received the replacement 6 shot stainless GP100 today. I wish there was just some magical way to tell whether it was 100% good to go or not before shooting a lot of money's worth of ammo to figure out if there are any QC defects or not. My blued 6 shot was fine for the first several hundred rounds, but then developed issues.

Just dry practicing and inspecting, I can't see anything wrong, but that was also the case with both the defective 7 and 6 shot ones.

[SwampDweller]

I guess I'm going to keep this new GP100 and shoot as many magnums as I can through it this weekend to see how it does. If it seems alright, maybe then I'll send it off for custom work.

[SwampDweller]

I shot the new replacement GP100 Ruger sent me. 146 rounds of .357 Magnum were fired, and I had one Failure to Fire on round #34. It was Armscor USA 158gr FMJ. It left an indentation in the primer but did not go off. After waiting, I tried firing it again and it went off. The following 112 rounds had no issues. Do you all think this could be the fault of the gun, the ammo, or something else?

[Flamingo]

I shot the new replacement GP100 Ruger sent me. 146 rounds of .357 Magnum were fired, and I had one Failure to Fire on round #34. It was Armscor USA 158gr FMJ. It left an indentation in the primer but did not go off. After waiting, I tried firing it again and it went off. The following 112 rounds had no issues. Do you all think this could be the fault of the gun, the ammo, or something else?

I think it was likely an ammo problem. I had several rounds fail to fire from a box of PMC ammo. I tried the rounds in several known good guns and they didn't go off at all.

[gato naranja]

I shot the new replacement GP100 Ruger sent me. 146 rounds of .357 Magnum were fired, and I had one Failure to Fire on round #34. It was Armscor USA 158gr FMJ. It left an indentation in the primer but did not go off. After waiting, I tried firing it again and it went off. The following 112 rounds had no issues. Do you all think this could be the fault of the gun, the ammo, or something else?

My scientific wild-ass guess is that the ammunition was the culprit in this one.

[revchuck38]

I shot the new replacement GP100 Ruger sent me. 146 rounds of .357 Magnum were fired, and I had one Failure to Fire on round #34. It was Armscor USA 158gr FMJ. It left an indentation in the primer but did not go off. After waiting, I tried firing it again and it went off. The following 112 rounds had no issues. Do you all think this could be the fault of the gun, the ammo, or something else?


I think it was likely an ammo problem. I had several rounds fail to fire from a box of PMC ammo. I tried the rounds in several known good guns and they didn't go off at all.


My scientific wild-ass guess is that the ammunition was the culprit in this one.

+1 on this.

[03RN]

If it went off on the second strike than it was probably a primer that wasn't seated probably. The first strike seated the primer

[Tannhauser]

If it went off on the second strike than it was probably a primer that wasn't seated probably. The first strike seated the primer

Almost certainly an improperly seated primer and the first strike finished pushing it into place.

[SwampDweller]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Since the new GP100 seems to be alright, I am going to send if off to Gemini Custom for their Essential Package. I've been in contact with the owner as he suggested I run at least 50 rounds through it before proceeding. He emailed me this morning with the following:


I think your GP100 is fine, but I will advise you in advance that ammunition selection is especially important with any revolver that has a lightened action. I strongly suggest American Eagle for your range ammo and anything made by Federal for defensive purposes. There are certainly many other excellent ammunitions available, but these have proven for many years to be the best choice for revolvers with lightened actions.

Remember you are building a system which includes ammunition that proves reliable as much as you are building a revolver that is both reliable and easier to shoot well.

I understand that specific brands of ammunition can be difficult to procure and all signs show it will remain so, probably worsening. Our action tuning is 100% reliable with most ammunition used, but we will include a heavier spring for your use if light primer strikes become an issue. Primers used by various manufacturess and any mil spec primer is physically harder material than those made by Federal, and there fore harder to ignite.

I may put the heavier spring in once it gets back if American Eagle ammunition is difficult to procure. Typically my preferred practice loads are Federal American Eagle and Speer Lawman. IIRC, Lawman as well doesn't have too hard of primers, right?

[revchuck38]

SwampDweller - American Eagle is made by Federal and uses Federal primers. Federal primers are considered the softest (and therefore the easiest to set off) available. Lawman is made by Speer and probably uses CCI primers, which are considered the hardest to set off. That said, they're both owned by Vista so there may be mixing and matching going on.

If you're going to use the GP100 as a carry gun, I'd recommend that you ask him to use a relatively heavier mainspring that will be reliable with all US-produced ammo. It'd probably still be lighter than the stock mainspring. Smoothing the action gives most of the benefit of a trigger job.

I've got three revolvers that have been through the S&W Performance Center for their "Combat Revolver Package" and they're all lighter and smoother than stock, and they're all 100% reliable with anything I've put through them. You can get that from your Ruger, you just have to tell him what you want.

[SwampDweller]

SwampDweller - American Eagle is made by Federal and uses Federal primers. Federal primers are considered the softest (and therefore the easiest to set off) available. Lawman is made by Speer and probably uses CCI primers, which are considered the hardest to set off. That said, they're both owned by Vista so there may be mixing and matching going on.

If you're going to use the GP100 as a carry gun, I'd recommend that you ask him to use a relatively heavier mainspring that will be reliable with all US-produced ammo. It'd probably still be lighter than the stock mainspring. Smoothing the action gives most of the benefit of a trigger job.

I've got three revolvers that have been through the S&W Performance Center for their "Combat Revolver Package" and they're all lighter and smoother than stock, and they're all 100% reliable with anything I've put through them. You can get that from your Ruger, you just have to tell him what you want.

I'm going to include a typed up document with the Work Order form in the box when I send it to him. I will ask to use a heavier mainspring (9, 10, and 11lbs are options. Would the 11 be good, or should I stick with standard weight? I don't even know what that is). I'm going to emphasize that this will be a carry gun and reliability is important above all else.

[vtfarmer]

The old Lee Auto-Prime recommended only CCI and Winchester primers because they were harder and less likely to go off in bulk handling. I've always stuck with Winchester primers in my handloads with the idea of having reliability when experimenting with main springs in my GP 100s. I've done a lot of playing with springs over the years and measuring the double action pull that results. A total of nine different GP100s. To be reliable with Winchester primers, the double action pull needs to measure at 9 or 10 pounds, depending on the individual gun. That's the measured DA pull, not the main spring rating. For example, the Ruger factory spring is always given as a 14 pound spring. But I've had 3 guns that came with 10 lb. DA's, and the others all fell between 11 and 12 lbs. The two newest came with 10 lb. DA's right from the factory. I swapped out the trigger return spring, which have no effect on hammer fall, for the lightest Wolf trigger return spring, and each gun has a 9 lb. DA with the factory main spring.

I took one of those main springs and swapped it into an older GP that requires a 10 lb. pull to be reliable. And the spring produced a 10 lb. pull in that gun. Individual gun variation. I then took two different Wolff 12 lb. main springs, and tried each of them in each of the two guns. One Wolff spring was an exact duplicate of the factory spring, 9 and 10 lb. DA's in the two guns. The second Wolff ran a half pound heavier in each gun, 9.5 and 10.5 lbs. respectively. Spring to spring variation. The differences in the Ruger factory and the Wolff 12 lb. mainsprings are length and stiffness. The Ruger main spring is stiffer, but shorter than the Wolff. The Wolff spring is softer, but longer than the Ruger. So in the same space limits, the spring, while softer, has to be compressed more, and the resistance accumulates and gives the same DA pull.
The Wolff 9 and 10 lb. main springs produce 7 or 8 lb. pulls in my guns. They have not been reliable at all with Winchester primers.

[SwampDweller]

The old Lee Auto-Prime recommended only CCI and Winchester primers because they were harder and less likely to go off in bulk handling. I've always stuck with Winchester primers in my handloads with the idea of having reliability when experimenting with main springs in my GP 100s. I've done a lot of playing with springs over the years and measuring the double action pull that results. A total of nine different GP100s. To be reliable with Winchester primers, the double action pull needs to measure at 9 or 10 pounds, depending on the individual gun. That's the measured DA pull, not the main spring rating. For example, the Ruger factory spring is always given as a 14 pound spring. But I've had 3 guns that came with 10 lb. DA's, and the others all fell between 11 and 12 lbs. The two newest came with 10 lb. DA's right from the factory. I swapped out the trigger return spring, which have no effect on hammer fall, for the lightest Wolf trigger return spring, and each gun has a 9 lb. DA with the factory main spring.

I took one of those main springs and swapped it into an older GP that requires a 10 lb. pull to be reliable. And the spring produced a 10 lb. pull in that gun. Individual gun variation. I then took two different Wolff 12 lb. main springs, and tried each of them in each of the two guns. One Wolff spring was an exact duplicate of the factory spring, 9 and 10 lb. DA's in the two guns. The second Wolff ran a half pound heavier in each gun, 9.5 and 10.5 lbs. respectively. Spring to spring variation. The differences in the Ruger factory and the Wolff 12 lb. mainsprings are length and stiffness. The Ruger main spring is stiffer, but shorter than the Wolff. The Wolff spring is softer, but longer than the Ruger. So in the same space limits, the spring, while softer, has to be compressed more, and the resistance accumulates and gives the same DA pull.
The Wolff 9 and 10 lb. main springs produce 7 or 8 lb. pulls in my guns. They have not been reliable at all with Winchester primers.

Interesting. So the mainspring weight doesn't necessarily dictate the trigger pull weight. I think if it is changed at Gemini, I'm going to switch it back to a heavier mainspring just in case. He did say he'd include a heavier one if I am shooting ammo that isn't igniting.

[Tarrrnation!]

Swamp Dweller, please post up photos and review once you get your GP back from Gemini Custom. Sending my GP100 to them is one of my bucket list items.
By their reputation, you’ll have a terrific revolver for life.

[SwampDweller]

Swamp Dweller, please post up photos and review once you get your GP back from Gemini Custom. Sending my GP100 to them is one of my bucket list items.
By their reputation, you’ll have a terrific revolver for life.

Will do. I don't know their turnaround time (I'm getting the Essential Package), but I won't be in a rush either. Hell I might get another GP100 in the meantime as I like to have two of a carry gun anyway.

[Half Moon]

Will do. I don't know their turnaround time (I'm getting the Essential Package), but I won't be in a rush either. Hell I might get another GP100 in the meantime as I like to have two of a carry gun anyway.

FWIW: I've got a revolver in to Gemini right now. Early in discussion they gave 4 months as a general baseline for turnaround. It's been around 2 months so still in that window so far.

[SwampDweller]

FWIW: I've got a revolver in to Gemini right now. Early in discussion they gave 4 months as a general baseline for turnaround. It's been around 2 months so still in that window so far.

I’d be fine with that general baseline. I’m not exactly in a rush. I might even get another GP100 to bang around with in the meantime, and when the first one is back and if I like it, I’ll send the second one off.

Also, in a conversation with Marc at Gemini via email, I asked about CCI ammunition/primers. He said they are harder than Federal’s and are used in other brands of ammunition as well, and he doesn’t think there’d be a problem igniting them. He said he will include several heavier springs in case I need them.

[SwampDweller]

In the "Cleaning GP100" thread, I posted the following:


It's weird, sometimes while I'm cleaning it, the cylinder will get sticky getting it back in and the trigger pull gets really heavy. But then I'll swing the cylinder out again, give a wipedown on all the places that typically need it, and it's back to normal. I'm not sure what causes that and whether it's indicative of something off with the gun itself, or maybe getting junk I can't really see in such a spot that causes it.

I've had it happen twice with my 4" GP100, not with the new 5".

I'm still trying to figure this out. I'm not able to get it to do it with any repeatability and I'm wondering there's an actual issue or not. When it happened, the cylinder was difficult to close.

[Edit, seems maybe it's able to happen if I close the cylinder a certain way but I'm not sure why or how. First trigger pull was slightly heavier and then it went back to normal for all 6 chambers]

[Wooosh]

Does anyone here have any experience with the LPA GP100 adjustable rear sights? Since the Bowen sights are unavailable, they seem to be the only aftermarket GP100 rear sights on the market today.

[Flamingo]

Does anyone here have any experience with the LPA GP100 adjustable rear sights? Since the Bowen sights are unavailable, they seem to be the only aftermarket GP100 rear sights on the market today.

I am going to go to the Fermin Garza (https://fermincgarza.com/shop/ols/categories/rw-2-dogs-rear-sights) sights on mine.