First Post, USP .45 vs Glock 20 Gen 5

[consumer_ignorance]

Hi all,

I’ve lurked here for a while, but this is my first official post! So hello!

I’ve been reading various posts and threads on here, and I’ve narrowed my decision down to these two guns. I’m looking for a field pistol for outdoor use in the lower 48. I live in Utah. I’ve heard VERY mixed reviews of the Glocks with heavy 10mm loads, but it seems like the Gen 5 *may* have worked some of the bugs out. I’ve heard very good things about the USP .45, even with .45 Super.

So I guess here’s my stakes with it: I don’t have a huge budget to vet and massage the pistol, so reliability is paramount. The Glock has a few advantages: namely, 3 more rounds, arguably better penetration, price, and holster availability. The USP has a safety, practice ammo is less expensive, more available, and I have some stocked up anyway, it’s more reliable (probably?), and the .45 Super is a little more powerful with a wider diameter.

If you were me, where would you go with this decision?

Thanks for all the reading so far, and I’m happy to be here!

[Clusterfrack]

Welcome to Pistol-Forum! Both are good, reasonable solutions. We have figured out how to make a 10mm Glock reliable with decently powerful loads. A G20 can take a red dot, and has a very wide range of holster options. The USP 45 is a big gun, and folks with smaller hands may have trouble reaching the trigger in DA mode. I do for sure, and that's one reason I went with a G20 even though I am a big fan of DA/SA guns.

I have to run to an appointment, so I'll let some of our other very experienced members comment.

Paging GJM...

[consumer_ignorance]

Welcome to Pistol-Forum! Both are good, reasonable solutions. We have figured out how to make a 10mm Glock reliable with decently powerful loads. A G20 can take a red dot, and has a very wide range of holster options. The USP 45 is a big gun, and folks with smaller hands may have trouble reaching the trigger in DA mode. I do for sure, and that's one reason I went with a G20 even though I am a big fan of DA/SA guns.

I have to run to an appointment, so I'll let some of our other very experienced members comment.

Paging GJM...

Thank you for the quick reply!

You two were the two I was hoping to hear from, ha. Your comments have been invaluable reading for me!

I have XL size hands, so the size isn’t too much of a concern. The red dot and holster availability on the Glock is a strong advantage for sure (although a red dot would be off the table for a while either way, just based on budget). Thank you, sir!

[john c]

Though I went the other way and have a USP, I second Clusterfrack. If your budget is that tight, definitely go with the G20Gen5. The price of holsters, etc are so much cheaper, plus the gen 5 is only available in MOS, so when you do scrape up the pennies, you can red dot it easier. Also, with a modern rail system, you can easily mount a light on it, if needed for your use case.

I've never owned a G20, but the ones I've seen have worked fine with factory 10mm ammo. I think they started choking on boutique, super high end stuff. Is using this stuff realistic for you on a tight budget at $2/round? Also, if you're in Utah, what will you encounter that you'll need Buffalo Bore maximum pressure 10mm? Moose, possibly? They have several levels of 10mm ammo; you could pick one of their "medium" rounds and be fine.

Finally, in previous generations (1 through 4) there are .40 drop in barrels for the G20. I'm sure these will shortly be available for the gen 5. This will allow for much cheaper practice that you'll need to get really proficient with the pistol. A drop in barrel at $159 will more than pay for itself since .40 fmj ammo is only 20% more expensive than 9mm.

[Le Français]

Living in Utah (no grizzlies or polar bears) and having a tight budget, perhaps you could consider just feeding your typical carry with gun ammo that penetrates well when you’re in the great outdoors. You’d preserve the familiarity you have with that gun, and save at least five Benjamins. Just a thought from someone who wants a USP45 but can’t really justify the cost.

[Lost River]

Have you considered a Gen 5 Glock 21?

There are some rather potent loads available that will likely do what needs done, as far as semi auto loads. Plus I don't think many (most) know this, if you really, really want a 10mm later on, you can simply buy a drop in conversion barrel for your G21. While you can do that with a G21, you cannot go the other way, buying a G21 barrel and dropping it into a G20. That is unless you buy a whole top end.

Back to the Glock 21. Just FYI, I own a Gen 5 G20, Gen 3 G21 and an HK USP 45.

If you have been here for a while and reading, then you are likely aware that I have a small ammo company, so the loads that I refer to are ones that I produce. That should be said for full disclosure.

Anyways, between the 10mm and the .45, my personal favorite has long been the 45 ACP +P 250 grain hard cast Flat Point at 925 FPS. That heavy bullet penetrates deep and straight. It is also easy to shoot well for most people, and I very much like it in the polymer framed guns, such as the G21 and HK USP.

https://i.imgur.com/Oogd9bDh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/cHOthJsh.jpg

Either with a standard 13 round mag, or a +4 baseplate, you can end up with a pretty decent payload of heavy bullets. I like the 10mm, and carry it, but not nearly as much. In fact I carry my G22 more, due to a specific load that is exceptional in that gun.

Anyways, I would not rule out the Glock 21 .45 ACP in your decision making. Both the HK USP and Glock 20 are fine guns, but the G21 is a gun that simply does not get the attention it deserves due to the general public's lack of knowledge about heavy .45 ACP loads and their terminal ballistics.

https://i.imgur.com/pSL2Clfh.jpg?1

[Lost River]

Following up on this.

It is quite rare to hear mixed reviews (from informed reviewers) about full size Glock 21s. They simply run. About the only thing people complain about is frame size, but for a 10mm/45 size frame, it is what it is, and it is an exceptionally reliable gun.

In fact, since the weather has turned cool here in Idaho, I have been carrying my G21 more and more, and am doing so again today. Pretty easy to do during this time of year of course, and I enjoy carrying more formidable weapons during the cooler months.

https://i.imgur.com/yxgLhSuh.jpg

The last few days have seen me in a routine with the same gear. Yes, that is a box cutter, but I use it frequently during the day.

Funny thing is that aside from the G21, the last three mornings have seen me grabbing my old Pendleton jacket for when I drive the kids to drop them off at school. It has big front pockets and I have taken to sticking a snubby revolver in each side (balances nicely). A 5 shot .38 on one side and a 6 shot .32 on the other. All loaded with wadcutters.

https://i.imgur.com/a4fwY2yh.jpg

No, I don't normally carry 3 guns. The snubbies have been living in my jacket and they are pretty handy!

[Noah]

As someone also living in a non Grizzly state on a tight budget, the cheap answer is specialty ammunition in my EDC 9mm. But that's no fun!

[TicTacticalTimmy]

A few thoughts on gun choice:

1. An HK45 is about $300 cheaper than a USP. It is a smaller more efficient design. Not as overbuilt as the USP, but I think it is sufficient for outdoor defensive loads.

2. Police trade in G21G4s are very cheap right now.

3. If you really care about being economical, a .40 with the right loads should be very effective against black bear and the biggest cats. All sorts of .40 guns and ammo are very cheap right now.

4. Personally I love the 10mm cartridge and would look into the G20 or maybe the Grand Power P10 over the above options, but will fully admit it might not be the most practical choice for realistic scenarios.

[GlockenSpiel]

Don't want to thread hijack, but are gen 4 Glock 21s good to go, or not as good as the gen 3?

[BillSWPA]

For your consideration:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?56138-100-Field-Pistol

[consumer_ignorance]

I can’t thank everyone enough for the thoughtful, helpful replies.

After doing some soul-searching (and after spotting a used, local USP .45 for $700 OTD), I’m the proud owner of my first H&K! The comments about the Glock 21 were very interesting — I used to have one and it was accurate, soft-shooting, and phenomenally reliable. It’s something I hadn’t considered.

What it came down to for me was out of the box reliability (I think that’s a wash between the 21 and the USP, but the 20 unfortunately falls behind on reliability without some tuning) and the ability to run hot loads (which fhe 21 falls behind on). For a general field gun, the 21 is an awesome choice, but I do get up to Yellowstone/Montana/Idaho at least once per winter, so I wanted something that I felt like would match 10mm’s power for brown bears and bigger moose.

Thanks again to everyone — you all are a genuine wealth of information.

[consumer_ignorance]

Have you considered a Gen 5 Glock 21?

There are some rather potent loads available that will likely do what needs done, as far as semi auto loads. Plus I don't think many (most) know this, if you really, really want a 10mm later on, you can simply buy a drop in conversion barrel for your G21. While you can do that with a G21, you cannot go the other way, buying a G21 barrel and dropping it into a G20. That is unless you buy a whole top end.

Back to the Glock 21. Just FYI, I own a Gen 5 G20, Gen 3 G21 and an HK USP 45.

If you have been here for a while and reading, then you are likely aware that I have a small ammo company, so the loads that I refer to are ones that I produce. That should be said for full disclosure.

Anyways, between the 10mm and the .45, my personal favorite has long been the 45 ACP +P 250 grain hard cast Flat Point at 925 FPS. That heavy bullet penetrates deep and straight. It is also easy to shoot well for most people, and I very much like it in the polymer framed guns, such as the G21 and HK USP.

https://i.imgur.com/Oogd9bDh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/cHOthJsh.jpg

Either with a standard 13 round mag, or a +4 baseplate, you can end up with a pretty decent payload of heavy bullets. I like the 10mm, and carry it, but not nearly as much. In fact I carry my G22 more, due to a specific load that is exceptional in that gun.

Anyways, I would not rule out the Glock 21 .45 ACP in your decision making. Both the HK USP and Glock 20 are fine guns, but the G21 is a gun that simply does not get the attention it deserves due to the general public's lack of knowledge about heavy .45 ACP loads and their terminal ballistics.

https://i.imgur.com/pSL2Clfh.jpg?1

FWIW, this specific load looks phenomenal. It would be a great choice for me in UT, and it seems like it’s probably hot enough to take with me further north. I also really appreciate the 100 round quantity — some for testing and some for carry without breaking the bank. I like the options I get with the USP, but you will likely see an order from me soon!

[Salamander]

There are several good choices mentioned above. Think through those options and whatever good information follows, and then it's a matter of deciding what works best for you.

I'm mostly carrying a USP45 in the backcountry, that's driven in part by reliability and the fact that USP's are easy for me to shoot well, they fit my hands well. I'm also limited to 10 rounds in California, so higher capacity is a moot point for me at least for the near future. Finally, I load 9mm, 38/357, and 45 and have no particular desire to add additional calibers at this time; and I'm not as tolerant of heavy recoil as I was in my younger years. All those things factor in.

I have started shooting Glock's again, largely because it's a lot easier and less expensive to mount an optic than it is on an HK; Basically I can mill two or three Glocks for what one HK would cost. Gen 5's and anything MOS are still off roster here, although recent court decisions are offering hope. So you have more choices than I do. If I had those same choices, my decision might very possibly be re-evaluated. Being effectively limited to gen 3, I decided to go with the HK which runs out of the box, and that would likely be true of a G21 also.

Have you handled yet to see what best fits your hands? They're both large and blocky but the ergonomics are a little different. The triggers are also different.

[SwampDweller]

I personally would take the USP 45 and load it with .45 Super. I have USP 45's and Glock 21's (no G20) and I like both, but for heavy +P outdoor loads I think the USP is the better choice over a G20.

[coN]

I personally would take the USP 45 and load it with .45 Super. I have USP 45's and Glock 21's (no G20) and I like both, but for heavy +P outdoor loads I think the USP is the better choice over a G20.
I'm in this camp. I used to own both and for something that rivals/equals 10mm, 45 Super or 450 SMC is the way to go. The USP handles it out of the box vs the 21 which requires some parts (RSA, possible a buffer, etc) to run the same loads. Now even with the parts for 45 Super, the Glock 21 will still be a handful with hot loads but its cheaper. The USP handles the recoil much better and is a much smoother shooting experience, but you do pay $$$ for it.

Now I sold the 21 to fund my USP Expert. I love my USP but the Gen 4 21 I owned had a SWEET Canik-like trigger (stock no less) and I regret selling it. Should've kept both but in the end, the USP is worth the investment IMO.

[Rack]

Have you considered a Gen 5 Glock 21?

https://i.imgur.com/pSL2Clfh.jpg?1

Sorry for the OT reply, but LR - what sights do you have on your G21, here?

Also, does the G21 require changing the RSA or anything else, to shoot your +P 250gr loads?

Thanks.

[Lost River]

Sorry for the OT reply, but LR - what sights do you have on your G21, here?

Also, does the G21 require changing the RSA or anything else, to shoot your +P 250gr loads?

Thanks.

The ammo was designed specifically to run with a factory (fresh) recoil spring assembly. I tend to run a bit heavier spring, 20#s as it smooths down the recoil just a bit and aids in shot to shot recovery time. Makes it pretty easy to really hammer out the big rounds quickly.

The rear sight is an LPA adjustable, the front is a Dawson fiber optic.

There used to be this belief that you should never put adjustable rear sights on guns because they were fragile. My experience with this LPA has shown that it has held up very well in all sorts of environments. Never had any issues with it.

[Rack]

The ammo was designed specifically to run with a factory (fresh) recoil spring assembly. I tend to run a bit heavier spring, 20#s as it smooths down the recoil just a bit and aids in shot to shot recovery time. Makes it pretty easy to really hammer out the big rounds quickly.

The rear sight is an LPA adjustable, the front is a Dawson fiber optic.

There used to be this belief that you should never put adjustable rear sights on guns because they were fragile. My experience with this LPA has shown that it has held up very well in all sorts of environments. Never had any issues with it.


Thanks. I'll take a look at your website for those loads.