S&W Response - 9mm PCC w/ Interchangeable Magwell

[HCM]

TLDR: S&W has a new 9mm PCC called the Response with interchangeable mag wells. It ships with mag wells for both M&P and Glock mags.

So now we know why S&W is doing factory extended mags for the M&P.


https://youtu.be/qFTmuFTdJiQ?si=RbGyZsBiOmiJn8Ti


https://www.smith-wesson.com/response



Adaptability is the advantage: our first MSR-style carbine with an interchangeable magwell system.

Chambered in 9MM, the RESPONSE features our new FLEXMAG™ magwell technology, allowing you to change out the magwell to fit double-stack 9MM magazines from S&W and other manufacturers. The RESPONSE will ship with an M&P magwell and a second magwell capable of receiving Glock® G17® and G19® magazines.

That's right. It takes Glock® mags.

RESPONSE features familiar MSR-style controls and accessories compatible with many popular MSR-style stocks, triggers, grips, and charging handles. This PCC also features a 16" 1/2x28 threaded barrel, and full-length handguard with three, six, and nine o'clock M-LOK® slot positions. Lastly, RESPONSE features a simple & reliable blowback design with a standard MSR-style buffer & spring for minimal recoil.

[HCM]

https://youtu.be/z8EIM9HqfLw?si=D-DzNAv9E6t_oKW9

[zaitcev]

Is this gun OOB safe? What's the rear of the bolt and the hammer look like?

P.S. No less from a company that sell both Shield Plus and Equalizer.

P.P.S. I'm not doing a Beretta magwell for this one too. No way.

[PTSDog]

This is pretty much what I was looking for. I was eyeing S&W’s Folding Pistol Carbine, and still might get one, but since I have so many Glock magazines I didn’t think it was worth it. Pushed me over to JR Carbines and Ruger’s PCC.

I will be a Beta Tester for it.

Jerry

[Joe in PNG]

All that compatible mag thing is nice, but I'd like to see more PCC's that fit CZ Evo mags.
Mebbe that's just me.

[Hambo]

Can be adapted to use a variety of popular double stack pistol magazines.

Variety=two.

[BobM]

I’ve been on the verge of buying the FPC. I have multiple M&P9s and dozens of magazines. I may see how this shakes out as I like the AR style controls, although I like the idea of being able to discreetly transport the FPC.

[mmc45414]

I feel like John Candy when Penthouse printed his letter!!!!!! :cool:

I am a big 9mm AR fan and a big M&P fan, and all this time S&W has been making ARs but letting everyone else make Glock compatible lowers and not making an M&P compatible AR 9mm.

I also have short arms and the length of pull on the FPC cooled my jets on that angle.


So now we know why S&W is doing factory extended mags for the M&P.
And I just bought three of those, so I am probably doomed to try this thing out.

This comes at a point in my life when I am aspiring to have less stuff instead of more, but this will make the cut (unless it turns out to be a total turd). The tough decision will be iffin I will shed my faithful CMMG Colt pattern AR9, just in the interest of truncating stuff. Once it was sorted (bought as a separate upper and lower during a panic, had to tweak the ejector, flawless since) it has been great and a ton of fun. But will it be something nobody (else) wants...

[HeavyDuty]

My first thought is “how would I SBR this?” My second is that P320 and P365 magwells would sell, if the aftermarket chooses to go there.

[mmc45414]

My first thought is “how would I SBR this?”
Would engraving the trust name into the plastic not meet the requirement?

[zaitcev]

My second is that P320 and P365 magwells would sell, if the aftermarket chooses to go there.

To inject a little bit of data, the take rate for aftermarket magwells for Ruger PCC is about 0.3%. About one in 300 owners decides to use something other than Glock or Ruger magazines. Using injection molding technology, robust advertising, and selling to a channel would probably push to about 0.8% or so.

The most popular type is Beretta 92, the P320 is next, and P365 is the third most popular. P320 and P365 together sell more than B92. The CZ-75 type is often requested, but sells extremely poorly domestically. It's about one CZ-75 to 20 B92.

If you want to make money, Glock is the only type that matters. The rest is completely on the margins.

[HeavyDuty]

Would engraving the trust name into the plastic not meet the requirement?

I’m thinking more how to deal with the barrel and handguard.

[HeavyDuty]

To inject a little bit of data, the take rate for aftermarket magwells for Ruger PCC is about 0.3%. About one in 300 owners decides to use something other than Glock or Ruger magazines. Using injection molding technology, robust advertising, and selling to a channel would probably push to about 0.8% or so.

The most popular type is Beretta 92, the P320 is next, and P365 is the third most popular. P320 and P365 together sell more than B92. The CZ-75 type is often requested, but sells extremely poorly domestically. It's about one CZ-75 to 20 B92.

If you want to make money, Glock is the only type that matters. The rest is completely on the margins.

Interesting. I’m not sure of the development or production costs for a nylon (assumed) magwell, but I have to wonder if it’s a possibility.

[mmc45414]

I’m thinking more how to deal with the barrel and handguard.
But before ya get too far along it might be something the scheme. We know the serial number needs to be on a metal surface (like Glocks), what if you would get a stamp back and find out there was no metal to engrave your name.

[HeavyDuty]

But before ya get too far along it might be something the scheme. We know the serial number needs to be on a metal surface (like Glocks), what if you would get a stamp back and find out there was no metal to engrave your name.

Actually, it doesn’t need to be on metal. That’s my understanding.

Edit - CZ Scorpion is an example. The maker’s information is all on polymer, the serial number is on metal. That’s my understanding of what is required, if you duplicate the original maker’s location you’re safe.

[HCM]

Variety=two.

So far - they claim more will be forthcoming.

Lots of 320/M17/M18 and Beretta 92/M9 out there. Those would be the logical next choices.

[stomridertx]

I'm interested. I love my S&W 15-22 and they seem to know how to do polymer receivers right. I'm also all in on Glocks so the FPC wasn't going to work for me. My first question is, have they tuned the buffer system to eliminate the snappy recoil of a direct blowback 9mm? Without doing some roller lock or other type of delayed system, I'd like to know if it's any better than just building a 9mm AR on a Glock mag lower from the existing AR PCC ecosystem. Tuning buffer springs and weights isn't hard for the home builder. The price seems to be right.

[psalms144.1]

Does it have last round bolt hold open? Lots of PCC designs don't. If so, this might be my next long gun purchase, because I love 9mm carbines for no logical reason.

[mmc45414]

Actually, it doesn’t need to be on metal. That’s my understanding.

Edit - CZ Scorpion is an example. The maker’s information is all on polymer, the serial number is on metal. That’s my understanding of what is required, if you duplicate the original maker’s location you’re safe.
Could probably do some neat laser engraving... :cool:

[PTSDog]

Just threw a M&P FPC in layaway at LGS, cause I have to have something to keep my will to live going. But don’t get to handle the Response until this evening. I’m really this could be my HD long arm and then keep the FPC in my go bag.

Now just got to get a M&P 2.0 with a 3.6” barrel to keep them company.

Jerry

[HeavyDuty]

Could probably do some neat laser engraving... :cool:

That’s what my guy in NH did for my Scorpion.

[zaitcev]

Does it have last round bolt hold open? Lots of PCC designs don't.
The Response has LRBHO with an AR-style release on the left side.

I don't know about "lots", because just about anything that I know does. The two major exceptions are KelTec SUB2000 and H&K MP5. In case of MP5, it's understandable because it's an SMG. Those tend to lack LRBHO, because you know when you're short because your burst is cut short. So, Uzi and AK also lack LRBHO. But I'm not counting those.

[psalms144.1]

The Response has LRBHO with an AR-style release on the left side.

I don't know about "lots", because just about anything that I know does. The two major exceptions are KelTec SUB2000 and H&K MP5. In case of MP5, it's understandable because it's an SMG. Those tend to lack LRBHO, because you know when you're short because your burst is cut short. So, Uzi and AK also lack LRBHO. But I'm not counting those.I'm aware of at least two AR9s that don't have LRBHO, but glad to hear this one does.

[PTSDog]

Got to compare the FPC and Response side by side and them shoot another customer’s Response and the range’s FPC.

The Response is pretty nice. It’s about a pound heavier than the FPC, but very balanced I thought. The lower is polymer, but it’s well built! The trigger and grip,can be swapped out from your favorite AR. The “BCG” is basicly an over sized 15-22 hunk of alloy. Buffer tube buffers. Nothing fancy, but nothing that screamed out to me it would break easily. The trigger that comes with it was great I thought. RUSA has the prices at $750, and I don’t see them selling many at that price. I’m going to wait until they get down to $650.

I find I like the FPC more and more. I have one in layaway. I’m sure I will end up with a Response, but I could be just as happy with two or three FPCs to replace my aging and sagging Sub 2Ks.

110575

[Exiledviking]

Got to compare the FPC and Response side by side and them shoot another customer’s Response and the range’s FPC.

The Response is pretty nice. It’s about a pound heavier than the FPC, but very balanced I thought. The lower is polymer, but it’s well built! The trigger and grip,can be swapped out from your favorite AR. The “BCG” is basicly an over sized 15-22 hunk of alloy. Buffer tube buffers. Nothing fancy, but nothing that screamed out to me it would break easily. The trigger that comes with it was great I thought. RUSA has the prices at $750, and I don’t see them selling many at that price. I’m going to wait until they get down to $650.

I find I like the FPC more and more. I have one in layaway. I’m sure I will end up with a Response, but I could be just as happy with two or three FPCs to replace my aging and sagging Sub 2Ks.

110575

The upper is aluminum or polymer? Any indication of some kind of delay in the blowback of the carrier or is it the typical 9mm AR blowback type?

[PTSDog]

Exiledviking

It’s nothing fancy, just your straight blowback type from other 9mm ARs. But, to me, it shot great. I really think the polymer receiver soaks up some of energy. Not that 9mm kicks a lot.

Upper is polymer over a metal skeleton IIRC. The rail is polymer. Maybe the polymer is what makes the Response shoot so well. The Ruger PCC has that “thud” when you short it because of the heavy ass bolt sling back and forth. The Reaponse’s recoil impulse don’t feel like that.

Jerry

[mmc45414]

The Response has LRBHO with an AR-style release on the left side.
I don't know about "lots", because just about anything that I know does.


I'm aware of at least two AR9s that don't have LRBHO, but glad to hear this one does.

I think that was an issue when magazine conversion blocks were a more common approach. I had one when a version with a hold open cost as much as a lower, and I ended up with a Colt pattern lower. Since I am all-in on M&P for double stack striker guns there had only been rather expensive M&P magazine alternatives.

[MandoWookie]

Since they bowed to the pressure on Glock mags for this, what is the likelyhood there will be a Glock version of the FPC? Thats the only thing really holding me back from one. Form factor wise the Response holds no interest.

[HeavyDuty]

I’d want to get it down to the size of my Colt/Uzi pattern SBR:

110593

[jandbj]

I’d want to get it down to the size of my Colt/Uzi pattern SBR:

110593

If it’s like the 15/22, it’s just a proprietary barrel nut wrench and likely similar hand guard attachment.
This looks like it’d be a cool little SBR. Especially with the weight savings of polymer.

[Joe in PNG]

I’d want to get it down to the size of my Colt/Uzi pattern SBR:

110593

That's pretty cool- what did you do?

[HeavyDuty]

That's pretty cool- what did you do?

Parts built as a braced pistol years ago, amnestied into an SBR. From memory a QC10 lower, Vltor upper, BA barrel, Midwest (?) handguard and UCIW stock.

[zaitcev]

You guys know that I cannot pass a gun like that without attaching a Scorpion magazine to it. With that in mind, neither of my LGS allowed me to take a good look inside the Response, so I had to refer to Sootch's video (much thanks to Sootch - so many forum dwellers love to crap on him for not being harsh enough in his reviews, but his material is almost unque in its detail). The bolt stop mechanism is gloriously over-complicated, almost Germanic in design. I'm frankly surprised that it works at all. Fortunately, a user can easily replace parts. The undercut in the bolt is also wide enough for a dual feed magazine. So overall I don't see any showstoppers. Ruger PCC is definitely a no-go, Homesteader may need trickery, but Response is basically ready.

Beretta 92, P320, or CZ-75 should be a trivial matter for someone interested. The real test is going to be the overall popularity of Response.

[Jamie]

I am overall pretty ignorant on PPC guns.

But my shooting buddy, mostly retired as am I, works in a local gunstore/indoor range.

He picked up an FPC a couple of months ago and just picked up a Response last week.

We shot them a bit at the outdoor range last Wednesday. His are set up for M&P mags fwiw.

It was nice to do a side by side comparison with them. We both agreed the Response is much smoother running and softer recoiling than the FPC. The balance is definitely better with the Response.

Granted I only fired a few mags through each (I'll pester him to bring it again when we shoot tomorrow) but I will seriously consider picking up one of the Response. I have a metric buttload of Glock mags so I'll go with that option.

Since S&W is now in Maryville (only 30 minutes from my door), I may wait for any bugs to get worked out and hope for a Made in Tennessee stamped one.
Gotta save my pennies up anyway.

[idahojess]

Just in case anyone has one of these:


DESCRIPTION OF HAZARD:

Smith & Wesson has identified a condition where, if the bolt were to fail to fully close, and the trigger is pulled, an out of battery discharge may occur. An out of battery discharge could potentially rupture an unsupported case, venting gas through the magazine well and upper receiver, and possibly fracturing a portion of the receiver.
We ask that you stop using your rifle immediately until it has been inspected and repaired as necessary.

DESCRIPTION OF THE PRODUCT INVOLVED:

Although we have only observed this condition in a very small number of products, out of an abundance of caution, we are asking consumers of all affected S&W Response Rifles manufactured before February 12, 2024 to return their rifle to S&W for inspection and repair for this condition.

https://www.smith-wesson.com/safety/recall/sw-response-consumer-safety-alert


Good on Smith.

[zaitcev]

Good on Smith.

Indeed.

Also, I thought that the OOB with Mrgunsngear gun was related to the inherent hazard in all blowback AR9s that use a one piece bolt. None of them have an intrinsic OOB safety, no matter how reputable the manufacturer is. There's no pin withdrawal mechanism like on two-piece bolts. ATF bans the disconnectors that full-auto guns use. And the distance between the bottom of the bolt and the firing pin is insufficient for a flat-faced hammer to work as a safety. But S&W behave as if the Response does have a safety feature, which only needs to be repaired. I'm extremely curious how they accomplish it.

[HeavyDuty]

Indeed.

Also, I thought that the OOB with Mrgunsngear gun was related to the inherent hazard in all blowback AR9s that use a one piece bolt. None of them have an intrinsic OOB safety, no matter how reputable the manufacturer is. There's no pin withdrawal mechanism like on two-piece bolts. ATF bans the disconnectors that full-auto guns use. And the distance between the bottom of the bolt and the firing pin is insufficient for a flat-faced hammer to work as a safety. But S&W behave as if the Response does have a safety feature, which only needs to be repaired. I'm extremely curious how they accomplish it.

Just the other day Rob from In Lead We Trust mentioned something similar about the Scorpion, how BATFE required the removal of parts that made the gun less likely to OOB. Gotta love the Feds.

[Jamie]

Thanks for the heads up idahojess!

I texted the link to my bud that has one.

Good on Smith.

Yeah, I can't think of anything the Feds have done to help recently either...

[zaitcev]

Just the other day Rob from In Lead We Trust mentioned something similar about the Scorpion, how BATFE required the removal of parts that made the gun less likely to OOB. Gotta love the Feds.

The hazard of pulling disconnectors out of converted machine guns is real and unfortunately CZ Scorpion is one of victims. Fortunately, not all of them are like that, and removing the auto sear from AR-15 does not make it unsafe.

A gun with one-piece bolt can be made safe in an (B)ATF(E) compliant way by using something like Glock safety button that we all know and love. But I examined S&W bolt and it does not have a mechanism like that. I think they must be relying on the vertical section at the rear of the front half, where the hammer lands. I wish someone talked to one of their engineers at SHOT and asked. I'm sure it's not a secret.