Girsan 2311s Shipping

[Tokarev]

The Prodigy was previously the basement budget discount pistol in the 2011 format.

I wonder how these will pan out as a whole.


https://youtu.be/-uAUY1CLmLg?si=3jDBZK34Sq0IPB4E

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[Tokarev]

https://youtu.be/FddBsPuMlpE?si=ZznTra2HBdJAmb8d

[Jim Watson]

Ooh, ahh.

I wonder how much work, parts, and money will be thrown at them to make them Nice.

[Tokarev]

Ooh, ahh.

I wonder how much work, parts, and money will be thrown at them to make them Nice.



Yeah. That's the question. Will an $850 pistol that runs off $50 mags need $500 worth of work? Has Girsan cracked the code of cheap and reliable?

[Jim Watson]

I await the other calibers.
Every new gun, the traditionalists want it in .45, the avant garde want it in 10mm.
Girsan catalogs them, let's see if they deliver.

[Tokarev]

https://youtu.be/_ypVR9kczdM?si=xCzx1NzzX4ENOaiJ

[Tokarev]

So my desire to be the first kid on the block arm wrestled my better judgment. Guess who won?

I am now the owner of one of the 4.25" models. I haven't shot it yet but here are my initial thoughts:

The pistol ships with a cheap red dot mounted to the slide. It seems to be a real piece of junk. I would have preferred EAA lower the price $50 and let me choose my own optic. I guess EAA is wanting to compete with Springfield here and not be outdone by the Prodigy that ships with the cheap optic. The optic cut, according to some sources, is the RMSc cut. There is no rear sight. This limits optics choices to the Holosun EPS Carry and the Romeo X. Neither are probably a bad choice but EAA should probably use an RMR cut. The gun also comes with a cover plate that includes a rear "Novak" sight. The sight is part of the cover plate and is not adjustable. The front sight is dovetailed in. There is a big unsightly gap between the slide and the front sight blade.

General quality of the pistol itself seems decent. The slide to frame and barrel fit are okay. Not USGI loose and not hand fit. Something in between. The only thing I think I'd complain about here is the looseness of the barrel bushing. While I don't mind the fact that the gun comes apart without tools, I think a slightly tighter bushing would only aid accuracy.

Surprisingly the gun is not a Commander. It is a Government frame with the slide cut off three quarters of an inch. I like the idea of the Government frame and the longer slide travel for reliability but I do wonder what recoil spring may be the best fit. Will a true Commander spring be the correct length? I note with some interest that the gun uses a flat wire spring and what I believe is a .25" diameter guide rod. Maybe Glock springs will work?

The frame itself is aluminum which makes the gun relatively light. I like the idea of the light hicap pistol. 2011s can be heavy beasts especially when fully loaded with almost 20 rounds of 147 grain ammo and outfitted with an optic and light. The aluminum frame helps offset this just a little.

The plastic frame seems decent. Checkering is fairly aggressive and the gun feels good in the hand. The safety is stiff but fairly positive and may loosen up a bit with use. The top of the safety does have a bit of a sharp edge which may cause a hot spot when shooting. The grip safety fits okay and deactivates about halfway in. The gun comes with a plastic mag well that should work okay. I don't know if an STI or Dawson mag well will fit. The mag release sticks out a little on the right and doesn't look very good. It is flat on the right side. I don't know if a Gen I STI will work. A Gen II may possibly fit but would look weird since the angles would be way off.

The trigger is okay. It has just a hint of creep and a little bit of overtravel. It measures five pounds. There does not appear to be an overtravel adjustment.

Oddball stuff abounds. Aside from what I consider to be a poor choice of an optics cut, the gun also appears to use an extractor with a smaller diameter than usual. I haven't pulled it out to measure but it certainly looks smaller than a GI spec. If it is smaller this means there won't be any easy way to install a new one. The owner will have to turn down a new extractor or have the hole is the slide bored out. That's assuming there aren't other weird dimensions here. Also, the frame rail is not 1913. A Streamlight TLR-1 with the 1913 key won't fit. The TSW/99 or GL key will have to be used. The rail itself is also lower in relation to the slide. Both of these will likely make finding a correct holster difficult.

If the gun runs okay out of the box I'm sure it will be fairly popular in the marketplace. The only other gun I know of that competes in the budget hicap space is the Rock Island and it is based off the Para. So the EAA should be a better option at least as far as magazines go. But I just don't understand why EAA or Girsan would use a non-standard extractor and the unusual rail dimensions.

I'll probably shoot the gun this morning and will update with range results when I can.

[awp_101]

Yeah. That's the question. Will an $850 pistol that runs off $50 mags need $500 worth of work? Has Girsan cracked the code of cheap and reliable?

This is the first I've heard of these so I haven't watched any videos yet. Does it take a proprietary mag, a 2011 mag from the usual suspects or one from another platform (CZ, Witness, etc)?

[Tokarev]

This is the first I've heard of these so I haven't watched any videos yet. Does it take a proprietary mag, a 2011 mag from the usual suspects or one from another platform (CZ, Witness, etc)?

2011 clips. The gun comes with one Checkmate mag. My Atlas mags fit in nicely. Dura Mags also fit. I'll hopefully know later today if there are any issues with feeding or slide lock.

[awp_101]

Thanks Tokarev! I have so many more needs to focus on right now instead of a 20+ round 9mm but it's tempting if it's reliable enough to be a range blaster.

[Tokarev]

I'll get some pics posted here in a bit. The forum no longer seems to work with Tapatalk. Tapatalk had its issues but it did make posting pics easy.

[Tokarev]

So Tapatalk seems to be working again. Here are a few pics.

The Girsan with my Prodigy. It isn't really obvious here but note the bigger gap between the light and bottom of the slide on the Turkish Delight. This will likely complicate holster selection.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231028/f43c4a3042ced378725c30725f45bf8b.jpg

An overall of the pistol. I do like the look. What I believe is a painted finish is smooth and even. Is the aluminum frame section anodized? I hope so.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231028/c06fa2437e44992bb6a0ae4417e73887.jpg

Here's the slide at full travel and then locked open. It has a full Government stroke but the location of the slide lock notch is more Commander than Government. This means the slide has shorter travel when loading from slide lock.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231028/82d6d90f2161be3c6aabe21a19e52a79.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231028/305bf648d7ea8d778bfea7ff3521b433.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231028/6ff7a830c1741d76d05bebf0b2ca9567.jpg

[Tokarev]

Sights. Note the head of the extractor. I think it is smaller than GI.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231028/e8369e54656919e5a00bb790ba3a14de.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231028/63ec35bfaf02dc9695a28f934841c872.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231028/361a1ccf9652215a36ad74b177e3d6be.jpg

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[Tokarev]

Some general pics of the frame.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231028/53ef9cb041ad61385a92771b6de1b8db.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231028/aefbc846321b7f667f7dbd787ba60bab.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231028/ad50b7ef9439d5b16aadeb78ff401eab.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231028/182d68e5da43726b097c9a9047f4ce0f.jpg

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[Tokarev]

https://youtu.be/BMBSamaFgXk?si=PhmvXrD05mZV_Vwd

[Tokarev]

228 rounds fired using a couple Atlas mags, a couple Dura Mags and the one factory Check Mate. Ammo was a mix of 115 and 147 JHP, a few frangible and 150 LSWC poly coated. There were no malfunctions of any kind to include firing with no mag in the pistol.

The two rear sight/cover plate screws came loose within about 50 rounds but didn't seem to loosen any further. The rear sight wiggles but both screws are still there.

Somewhere between about rounds 140 and 150 the little screw in the front of the trigger guard fell out. It is gone. Done lost it!

Now as I'm packing up to head home I see the big grip screw on the left is loose.

At least the flashlight stayed tight...

The gun seems like it has potential. Is it worth saving $300 over the Prodigy? Unknown at this time. But I think we're off to a decent start.

Oh. I almost forgot. The gun shoots two or three inches low at 15 yards. That's annoying but probably not anything I'll worry about right away. Next thing I plan on doing is mounting up an EPS Carry to see how it does with a dot.

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[Tokarev]

Dammit! I just spun the center out of one of the tiny ass screws that holds the rear sight/optic cover plate on. I am probably going to have a hard time getting it out now.

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[Tokarev]

I confirmed this evening that the Girsan does use a smaller diameter extractor. The extractor out of my Prodigy measures .270 at the groove for the firing pin plate. The Girsan is .234 at this spot. While I know 1911 parts aren't drop-in this is a pretty big difference. It isn't going to be something your average kitchen table 1911 Smith is going to be able to mess with.

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[60167]

I confirmed this evening that the Girsan does use a smaller diameter extractor. The extractor out of my Prodigy measures .270 at the groove for the firing pin plate. The Girsan is .234 at this spot. While I know 1911 parts aren't drop-in this is a pretty big difference. It isn't going to be something your average kitchen table 1911 Smith is going to be able to mess with.

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…And that spells the end to any interest I may have.

[Tokarev]

…And that spells the end to any interest I may have.I just don't get it. It would be just as easy to make and use an extractor that's common size vs making and using one in an uncommon size.

Do the Tisas and Girsan 1911s use oddball extractors? Is there some Turkish export law mandating this?

I may see if I can't bore the slide to take a proper extractor. The other option is to replace the slide with a piece from Fusion or Rem Sport. But that would require a new barrel and stuff as well since they don't make a chopped Government slide.

Frustrating stuff but also not terribly shocking given the gun's price.


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[HCM]

I just don't get it. It would be just as easy to make and use an extractor that's common size vs making and using one in an uncommon size.

Do the Tisas and Girsan 1911s use oddball extractors? Is there some Turkish export law mandating this?

I may see if I can't bore the slide to take a proper extractor. The other option is to replace the slide with a piece from Fusion or Rem Sport. But that would require a new barrel and stuff as well since they don't make a chopped Government slide.

Frustrating stuff but also not terribly shocking given the gun's price.


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Though both are Turkish and Girsan are Tisas are separate companies.

Can’t speak to what Girsan does on their other guns but the current Tisas 1911’s use standard 1911 parts including the extractor.

[Robinson]

Though both are Turkish and Girsan are Tisas are separate companies.

Can’t speak to what Girsan does on their other guns but the current Tisas 1911’s use standard 1911 parts including the extractor.

Yep, I had a Tisas 9mm Commander that used a standard extractor.

[Tokarev]

Yep, I had a Tisas 9mm Commander that used a standard extractor.


Though both are Turkish and Girsan are Tisas are separate companies.

Can’t speak to what Girsan does on their other guns but the current Tisas 1911’s use standard 1911 parts including the extractor.

Good to know this seems to be an exclusive phenomenon.

Pistol Wrench I think it was did a fairly extensive technical review of the Tisas on one of the 1911 forums. I seem to recall he said the Tisas was a decent pistol. I'll see if I can't find a link.

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[Tokarev]

Here's the Tisas thread.

https://www.1911addicts.com/threads/tisas.168953/#nested_reply_top_post

[Robinson]

Good to know this seems to be an exclusive phenomenon.

Pistol Wrench I think it was did a fairly extensive technical review of the Tisas on one of the 1911 forums. I seem to recall he said the Tisas was a decent pistol. I'll see if I can't find a link.

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Yeah my Tisas was a pretty good gun I'll admit. No trouble with it. I just decided to give up on the whole 9mm 1911 thing. Again. For like the fifth time. Now all my guns are 45s plus one 38 Super. And a G47/G19 hybrid for 9mm shooting.

[Tokarev]

I got the rear sight off. The one screw was fine. The one I stripped out I stuck a T9 torx bit in and got worked out.

The EPS Carry fits okay. There's a tiny bit of light at both ends of the cut. And it doesn't sit very snug against the recoil bosses. Will it stay tight in recoil? The Holosun screws had to be shortened about .065" to get them to bottom out on the optic and not on the screw holes.

The front sight is now going to be way too high. The gun already shot a little low at 15 yards with the iron sights. The EPS rear is lower than the factory iron sight that came on the cover plate. I'm guessing I'll need a .165" front.

Looking at the cut there's probably enough room to have a Glock rear sight dovetail cut behind the ejection port.

I did send some pics of the optic cut to CHPWS. They are pretty certain they can cut away the RMSc cut and replace it with the CHPWS cross plate system.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231031/b1a62f30736867d4eebf0b0996a1438d.jpg

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[Tokarev]

Oops. Too late to edit. I have a typo above. I think I'll need .065" for a new front sight. Yikes! How tall is a stock old GI front sight?

I'll probably run the gun for awhile as pictured above. If it doesn't give me any issues to 1,000 rounds or so I might see about spending more money on it.

On a somewhat related note does anyone know if the SIG Romeo X rear sight is taller than the EPS Carry rear sight?

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[Tokarev]

Here's another abnormality with the Girsan.

Gen 3 Staccato mags will not lock into the gun. It seems to me that they are narrower at the mag catch slot and aren't getting caught by the ledge on the mag catch.

Atlas, DuraMag brand and the one unmodified Check-Mate lock in fine.

My three Check-Mate mags I previously modified to work in my Prodigy lock in but will fall out with a little bit of shaking. I didn't test these mags in live fire. I bet they'd fall out under recoil.

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[Crusader]

Are the factory mags hard to get for it, expensive?

[Tokarev]

Are the factory mags hard to get for it, expensive?

I did pop the mag catch out of the Prodigy. It fits in the Witness grip and seems to retain the other mags. The contour is wrong being that the Prodigy piece is shaped to fit the lines that grip but it seemed to work otherwise. Comparing the two side by side the Witness has a different angle and a shorter ledge. Maybe a Dawson or EGW mag catch would work?

Anyway, DuraMag brand mags are what Springfield provides with the Prodigy. These seem to work fine in the 2311 and can be found for around $40.

The Checkmate brand is what EAA ships with the gun. These are priced around $50.

Both brands of mags may require some tuning in my experience. Springs are not very strong in either brand and there can be some variance in feed lips and tube dimensions that may cause feeding issues.

Probably the best 2011 mag currently is the one from Altas Gun Works. These are heavy gauge tubes that should be more dimensionally correct with a good strong spring. Down side is these run $65 or more depending on who you buy them from.

I am hoping to get to the indoor range this afternoon so sight in the new dot and to see how far off the irons are.



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[zaitcev]

2011 clips. The gun comes with one Checkmate mag. My Atlas mags fit in nicely. Dura Mags also fit. I'll hopefully know later today if there are any issues with feeding or slide lock.
In that case it's false advertising on their part. I was under impression that the "2311" moniker designated a 2011 with P320 magazines. Thanks for letting us know.

[Jim Watson]

Two different guns using the same monicker.
The "2311" for Sig magazines is the Oracle, $2199 and up.
https://oraclearms.com/firearms/2311/

[Evil_Ed]

FYI they MAY use proprietary barrels, too...

Chuck Rogers found this out the hard way (https://www.1911addicts.com/threads/random-recent-pics-from-the-bench.18919/page-146#post-3180385) on a Tisas -



Trials and tribulations.....sub-titled
"I always win."

Customer sent a 9mm Tisas rail gun and a Kart 38 Super barrel.
"Make it work with both calibers", he demanded.
Initial issue was breechface width. Was at .400", many 38S cases at .402" diameter, .406" is industry max.
So I decided .413" breechface width would be good for both cartridges and allow use of the same extractor.

This required purchasing a 7/16" commercially stocked counterbore, grinding the diameter to required size, grinding a
closely fitted pilot pin for the firing pin hole and extending the tools length by about 3".

Well.........once the breechface was done I started fitting the barrel.
I could tell early on something was 'off'.
??????
Turns out Tisas had used a proprietary barrel!!!!!
The ding dang link pin hole was .026" closer to the chamber end than what JMB designed.
So........I had to 'move' the hole on the new Kart barrel.

It all turned out well.......'EXCEPT' for what I made hourly on this bastid thing.
Still, it was satisfying to get challenged.

I realize Girsan and Tisas are not the same other than country of origin, but they're extremely close...it would not surprise me if what one did, the other followed. It may not apply to the Girsan at all, but as was documented the extractor is different and they're using a Gov't frame/slide stroke with a commander-length slide...they may have taken other liberties, too.

[Tokarev]

FYI they MAY use proprietary barrels, too...

Chuck Rogers found this out the hard way (https://www.1911addicts.com/threads/random-recent-pics-from-the-bench.18919/page-146#post-3180385) on a Tisas -



I realize Girsan and Tisas are not the same other than country of origin, but they're extremely close...it would not surprise me if what one did, the other followed. It may not apply to the Girsan at all, but as was documented the extractor is different and they're using a Gov't frame/slide stroke with a commander-length slide...they may have taken other liberties, too.


That fellow does some amazing work.

[Tokarev]

105 more rounds fired to get the EPS dialed and shoot a few groups. I also shot a few more with the mag out to check the extractor.

Extractor function is good and the gun continues to run without issue. I'm going to say it isn't a target gun. At 25 yards offhand I'm shooting probably 3.5" groups. Nothing to write home about but also not surprising being a "rack grade" pistol. It should shoot minute of IDPA target which is probably all anyone will ever ask of it.

The gun shoots probably 3.5" low at 7 with the EPS rear and factory front. That means my initial guess was off. I'm going to need a .110" front which is pretty much a nub.

Atlas Mags. This is the Way.

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[Tokarev]

101 more rounds this morning. The gun continues to chug along. I'm probably off a round or two at this point so let's err on the side of caution and call it a total of 400.

The new Atlas grip screw kit arrived. I left the Turkish bushings and cap screws in the grip but did put the Atlas screws and bushing in the trigger guard. It is a more snug fit than the original.

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231103/81135f33e649cdcb2d0d31f7fe883705.jpg

[Tokarev]

I test fit an 18# flat wire spring from Shadow Systems in the Girsan. It fits the guide rod fine. The spring isn't interfering with the full stroke and the guide rod still bottoms out on the recoil spring tunnel in the slide so it should be fine in that regard. The weight is probably too heavy to run in a 9mm and/or will only cycle with hot duty ammo. But it is good to know that springs shouldn't be hard to come by.

[Tokarev]

162 more rounds fired.

I had my first stoppage which was a failure to go into battery. I took the round out and inspected it. It looked fine and chambered fine on the next feed cycle.

Here's three five shot groups at 15 yards. Ammo was a 124 LSWC poly coated. I think it is an Acme bullet? I don't recall at the moment. This was with Auto Comp. Essentially a USPSA minor load.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231105/b31393981639b0ef29420f6eb43bd13d.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231105/7962a3c2764ed8872f87e539644ee743.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231105/309db4f6455fd83c6f4b461781a58a88.jpg

And then a mag of 147 Winchester Ranger. The mag is there for a general size reference.

Overall accuracy is okay. Nothing tremendous which is to be expected in my opinion given the fairly loose barrel fitment and bushing.
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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231105/c4d0ee41a1263b0148cf386652bde3b5.jpg

[Tokarev]

Another thing to note. Setting the white front sight dot slightly above the little fangs of the rear sight is probably useful for an emergency dot or battery failure. Doing this produced correct elevation at 10 yards although the group was left a good three or four inches.

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[Tokarev]

I'm attending a Sage Dynamics red dot instructor class this week and will be taking the Girsan to mess with. Reading the schedule it sounds like Day 1 is entirely lecture. Days 2 and 3 are range. I'll probably use the Girsan one day and my Echelon another.

[Tokarev]

So I'm rocking the Girsan in the Sage class today. We've got probably 250 rounds fired this morning.

No reliability issues with the pistol. Atlas mags are working 100% so far. Dura Mags are feeding fine but are hit and miss for slide lock. Mostly miss. I didn't bring my tuned Check-Mate nor the 1 that came OEM with the gun.

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[Tokarev]

Class over. No issues with the gun. Granted I only ran it this one day. Total round count was probably a bit north of 400. I'm calling it 400 just for the math. So total through the gun now let's call 950. So far the only issue is the one failure to go into battery with a reload. That's not counting failures to lock open with the Prodigy's magazines.

Seven out of eighteen of us shot well enough on his standards to earn a red patch.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231108/0f955f71e718960dac66d1ac8784bc18.jpg

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[Tokarev]

It is too late to edit now. I forgot to mention that I'm running the old recoil spring out of my Shadow Systems DR920 in the Girsan. It seems to be working fine in this capacity.

I took the gun apart after class and gave it a quick clean and oil. I'm not seeing any alarming wear. Hopefully the metallurgy is good and the frame won't crack or anything. At least not right away.



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[Tokarev]

I found this on Face Tik or whatever. This is a Girsan with an MJD Solutions grip module installed. So at least one 2011 part (aside from mags) will fit.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231110/5d135c0e28c10a2b5de596d80fe09121.jpg

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[Tokarev]

I crossed the 1,000 round threshold this morning. Still no issues with the gun but I did lose the little battery cap screw. Blue painters tape to the rescue!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231110/7bcaa294ac3af11948bf9635bf9af499.jpg

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[Tokarev]

MJD has some pix on his facegram page of the Villian grip installed on the Girsan. He says fitting was relatively trouble free.

The STI trigger fit without issue. He had to remove a little material off the sides to get the grip safety to fit cleanly and he replaced the mag catch with a new one. The original would have taken some fitting. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231114/ee1f0c31e62dde4edc264a1a9f069fe9.jpg

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[Tokarev]

This would be the cheapest option to get a useful set of sights on the gun although not as sexy as a plate system. I would be able to then replace the EPS Carry with the slightly larger EPS.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231117/9465f9df29efb9a977c8a274e269293f.jpg

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[Tokarev]

I took the frame apart this morning to give everything a good cleaning. From what I can tell, the sear and disconnector are MIM. I also think the slide stop is MIM. Everything else appears to be machined.

Maybe not surprisingly the Girsan grip doesn't seem to have any metal inserts where the bushings and screws attach the grip to the frame. A Prodigy grip test fits onto the Girsan frame fine and would probably make an easy replacement. The Girsan mag release fits fine in the Prodigy grip but the profile is a little different. The Prodigy has a swoop to it kind of like what's seen on the Gen 2 Staccato. The Girsan part is flat like a Gen 1 or 1911 mag. The Girsan trigger fits into the Prodigy grip but is a little snug where the shoe slides into the trigger guard area.

I have a Gen 1 Extreme Shooters grip on the way and will see how it fits on the frame and how well the trigger fits in the grip.

As far as the frame itself, the machining looks good. The surface texture is somewhat pourous. I'm not sure what the finish is. It could be anodized but I assume it is just Cerakoted or otherwise painted.

One thing of note is how tight the tongue and groove joint in the ambi safety is. I had a bugger of a time getting the parts separated. The parts are so tight they can't be readily pressed back together outside the gun. I don't know for sure and didn't really look before taking the gun apart but I don't believe the little finger tab on the right hand lever is long enough to properly retain the safety when the safety is engaged. I'll have to check this when I'm putting the gun back together.

Something else that's different is the hammer and sear pins. The pins have an actual stepped head on them instead of the sort of flared end that we are used to seeing on hammer and sear pins.

The sear spring is thick and black and very soft. It bends easily. I should replace it while the gun is apart. In fact I may as well get a flat trigger from Red Dirt or maybe STI and put that in while everything is in pieces.

Here are a few pics. Note how the lugs on the rail sit a little proud on the frame.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231119/fe1a05d66f3398e625e6e8456b3eaef9.jpg

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231119/f90f6f2d5491b7b0ef7ae5e7654719e4.jpg

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[Tokarev]

https://youtu.be/AU2J67flBok?si=bWzkft-JIJPqUpqu

[Tokarev]

EAA is saying on socialist media that the 5" 9mm is shipping to distributors.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/18199/Screenshot_2023-12-05_3_24_02_PM-3050471.png

[jeep45238]

Interesting. They're going for under $900 with an optic already on the slide.

I hope they turn out to be positive long term.

[Tokarev]

https://youtu.be/fsVKL3YyevU?si=zluVSBqk5aKr6yT4

[Tokarev]

Here's what I'm pretty much convinced is the problem with some mags not snapping into the Girsan.

The top pic is the Girsan grip module with a Dawson mag release installed. The Dawson's shelf is a little more square and should provide a bit more material to catch into the slot on the magazine. Note how much of shelf is visible inside the grip.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231206/adfbc7036a7e69e7b0c430c7fbb2ffe4.jpg

And then here is the same Dawson part installed in a grip off a Springfield Prodigy. The shelf sits much deeper into the mag well with this combination.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231206/5ccc4bd768155e670cea5294217d78cf.jpg

I tried as best I could go get the grip and the camera in the same spot so the angles don't make it look like the catch sits deeper in one vs the other.

I assume the little internal groove for the magazine catch lock is off a little bit in the Girsan grip. I haven't measured it but I also think the mag well area itself is slightly bigger on the Girsan. Add these two together and I think the mag catch just doesn't inset far enough to catch factory Staccato mags or my squeezed and tuned Check Mate mags.

After the slide comes back from C&H with the cross plate installed I think I'll send the gun to Marty Enloe and have him tune it up a bit. Maybe he can fit a new extractor. I'm also going to have him replace the MIM sear with an EGW and maybe replace the thumb safety with a Wilson or something.

I will also replace the Girsan grip module with a Prodigy part. There's no point in not replacing it when a new Prodigy one is $40 direct from Springfield Armory.


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[Tokarev]

https://youtu.be/KhTbUK95qEI?si=YtkyRDDP82Ryd_SK

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[Tokarev]

https://americanhandgunner.com/our-experts/vantage-point/big-capacity-new-eaa-witness2311/

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[Tokarev]

I was in a local shop just poking around this afternoon and noticed a Girsan in the display counter.

This sample is not as nice as mine. The gun seemed a bit rougher overall with a very heavy trigger. One particular thing of note was that the hammer in this gun appears to be MIM. I'm pretty sure the hammer in my gun is not.

I assume the Tisas will be the nicer overall product. The Girsan is okay but not worth the $900ish they're going for.

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[Tokarev]

A special run in association with Camfour.

https://www.ezgun.net/catalog/product/view/id/38909/s/w196-90721-eaa-2311-wit-neg-9mm-17rd-talo/

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[Tokarev]

The 10mm variant is apparently shipping.

https://soldiersystems.net/2023/12/26/eaa-corp-girsan-firearms-witness2311-c-in-10mm-now-shipping/

[Tokarev]

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/review-eaa-girsan-witness2311/

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[Tokarev]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z6Vis3KX7E

[Tokarev]

Aaron Cowan reviews the 5" gun on his Patreon page. He ran the gun through his usual 2K test which includes the four drop tests. He doesn't have any self-ejecting mag issues and the gun was quite accurate in his testing. The only thing he found odd was the fact that he kept getting ejection failures when running the gun with one hand only. He assumes this could be cured by playing with the recoil spring. I'd say that's a good guess.

Overall he likes the gun and thinks it is a good "gateway drug" into 2011s. I would say the MAC is the better value. I don't know if Aaron has seen/shot a MAC yet.

He mentions he had a student bring a 4.25 gun to a class that ran fine. Yep. That was me....

[Archer1440]

The MIM ejection marks on the hammer of Aaron’s example practically jumped out of the screen despite the fleeting glimpse in the video.

[Tokarev]

The MIM ejection marks on the hammer of Aaron’s example practically jumped out of the screen despite the fleeting glimpse in the video.

I looked at one of the 5" guns the other day at a local shop. It had the very distinctive MIM pockmarks on the hammer that mine doesn't have. I also noticed that particular gun felt sort of like it had a bunch of sand in it. It was pretty gritty. My 4.25 is actually pretty smooth.

[Tokarev]

https://youtu.be/dbVNy_DvCLA?si=2RlxYQwPpre3hm7V

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[bac1023]

Gun is garbage. I’ve handled a couple of them now and they are rough.

Feels like a cheap toy in hand and the trigger is absolutely horrendous. 2011’s really need to start with Staccato and go up from there.

[Tokarev]

Gun is garbage. I’ve handled a couple of them now and they are rough.

Feels like a cheap toy in hand and the trigger is absolutely horrendous. 2011’s really need to start with Staccato and go up from there.I think there's a market for all these guns. But, as I've said before, the EAA Girsan is overpriced. There is nothing about the Girsan that makes it a price competitor to the Tisas. The Tisas is less money and, by early accounts, the better pistol.

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[Tokarev]

I wanted to bump this thread just to make it a little easier to find in the near future.

I sent the gun and a bag full of parts to Marty Enloe in Phoenix. I also sent him a Prodigy grip that I'd had retextured by Extreme Shooters.

Marty is going to put in a new extractor and tighter bushing, some Wilson Combat controls and the new grip. I also asked him to check chamber and feed ramp dimensions and correct as needed.

Marty told me when I sent the gun in that it should be ready in late April. Hopefully he's still on his timeline. I'll post more info as soon as the gun is back.

Happy Sunday!

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[UNK]

Surprisingly the gun is not a Commander. It is a Government frame with the slide cut off three quarters of an inch. I like the idea of the Government frame and the longer slide travel for reliability but I do wonder what recoil spring may be the best fit. Will a true Commander spring be the correct length?

Thats what Les Baer did at one time and some people thought it was the reason their Commander length guns were so problematic. Its been more than a few days since all this happened, I thought the govt frame with the commander slides had less travel than the true Commander.
I should know about the problems since I bought one against all advice and it was a problem child. I found out later they also installed the govt length spring capture plug which restricted slide travel. I heard that replacing that with a Commander length would fix the problem in some guns.

[Tokarev]

Marty has completed the gun. Here's his email to me about it.


I am writing to let you know I am finished with the Girsan. I just sent you an updated invoice with shipping and one additional charge for coating the slide. I coated a few of the parts, but I charged a minimum to cover some of the cost. The total added comes to an additional $100 for both shipping and the coating.

The extractor was off more than just the size of the back. Also the firing pin, the hammer and sear pins are not spec. Overall the gun runs well but I didn't have the best luck with accuracy. Maybe that will change with the dot sight you plan to run. One particular thing was I wanted to ensure it had a correct chamber. I have a plug gauge that showed it had a correct taper, but the bore of the rifling was undersized from standard 9mm barrels. For this reason, I was not able to ream the chamber. It didn't seem to affect the function, but I wonder if that has a little to do with the accuracy.

If you have any other questions, please let me know. Best regards!

Looking back, I certainly wouldn't go this route again. I wanted the Girsan for the lighter weight aluminum frame. Was it worth it in the end? I probably should have bought a frame from JEM and gone that route.

Anyway, my plan now to essentially beat the brake shoes off this thing. No point in perfuming this pig to make it a safe queen.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240524/d3686d05279e29e163d9d26ce08bf120.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240524/3f84eb9cf840e6e9fc3cf0f2aa2bfb8b.jpg


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[Jim Watson]

I have a plug gauge that showed it had a correct taper, but the bore of the rifling was undersized from standard 9mm barrels. For this reason, I was not able to ream the chamber.

Sounds like the actual bore diameter is under and would not take the pilot of his reamer. Interesting, so many 9mms are on the high side of bore and groove diameter.

[Tokarev]

Sounds like the actual bore diameter is under and would not take the pilot of his reamer. Interesting, so many 9mms are on the high side of bore and groove diameter.The gun shot okay but wasn't "match" accurate in stock form. It was good enough to shoot a human sized target in the chest at 25 or more yards but probably wasn't the gun you'd want to use to work up an accuracy load. I did send Marty a new bushing that was still on the looser side but not as completely sloppy as the Girsan bushing. I thought about getting a bushing that needed ID and OD fit but decided against it.

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