The Reality of Modern Criminal Attacks

[Guerrero]

Very interesting article by the Gorillafritz (Greg Ellifritz).

https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/the-reality-of-modern-criminal-attacks

[John Hearne]

This story is in the queue for my business FB page:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/chicago-driver-is-carjacked-by-armed-men-in-coordinated-attack/vi-AA1h05rn?ocid=socialshare&cvid=438897a71f364d5ca26a279203e7f712&ei=24&fbclid=IwAR2HkhrtRy14bKUJFsmbPMpggzhG7PzucLm5Z_fb3 LqrZEKr4euz7HQibow

[Paul Blackburn]

Avoid areas where feral humans roam.

[feudist]

Greg asks what I'd feel if I shot a 12 year old robber?
Recoil.

[Joe in PNG]

Many prosecutors aren’t interested in filing charges against the violent kids who attacked your or stole your stuff. They won’t hesitate a bit to prosecute you if you make what they perceive is an unreasonable self defense decision.


I'd even go as far as to note that it's very likely that the defender will be pilloried in the media as an evil racist extremist looking to kill little minority children who are engaged in some harmless & good-natured hijinks. The actual facts won't matter- it's the desire to build a narrative that really counts.

[Borderland]

This seems to be trending around here. You get rear ended, get out of your car and get carjacked.

https://komonews.com/news/local/woman-carjacked-gunpoint-seattle-staged-car-crash-rear-end-video-dashcam-camera-suspects-thieves-car-vehicle-stolen-ski-mask-suspicious-police-warn-investigation-teenagers-hyundai-kia-boyz-washington-king-pierce-county-renton-tacoma-west-alert

[camel]

I'd even go as far as to note that it's very likely that the defender will be pilloried in the media as an evil racist extremist looking to kill little minority children who are engaged in some harmless & good-natured hijinks. The actual facts won't matter- it's the desire to build a narrative that really counts.

At that point. Your social media better be on point. Even a off color meme is gonna get you killed in the streets of public opinion by social media/ news media ninjas.

[Trooper224]

This seems to be trending around here. You get rear ended, get out of your car and get carjacked.

https://komonews.com/news/local/woman-carjacked-gunpoint-seattle-staged-car-crash-rear-end-video-dashcam-camera-suspects-thieves-car-vehicle-stolen-ski-mask-suspicious-police-warn-investigation-teenagers-hyundai-kia-boyz-washington-king-pierce-county-renton-tacoma-west-alert

And the take away?

"Police have not reported any arrests from these staged car jackings."

[Joe in PNG]

At that point. Your social media better be on point. Even a off color meme is gonna get you killed in the streets of public opinion by social media/ news media ninjas.

Even then, "show me the man and I'll show you the crime" is a potential issue even with a spotless social media record. If they want to make you into a bad guy, they'll do so. Even if they have to basically make things up via the usual deceptive tricks.

[Borderland]

And the take away?

"Police have not reported any arrests from these staged car jackings."

And the irony is a person can be charged for shooting a carjacker, except possibly in Louisiana.

https://journals.library.wustl.edu/urbanlaw/article/8373/galley/25206/view/

My question is how is one supposed to know what the carjackers intent is? Is he going to take you hostage or injure/kill you in the process of stealing your car?

Personally, if I see a weapon the lead starts flying. I'm not suggesting that would be appropriate for everyone in all situations in all parts of the country.

I'm reading some reports that carjackers actually shoot it out with police. That is a desperate carjacker or in some cases, carjackers.

Reminds me of robbing banks a hundred years ago before that became a losing bet.

[WobblyPossum]

And the irony is a person can be charged for shooting a carjacker, except possibly in Louisiana.

https://journals.library.wustl.edu/urbanlaw/article/8373/galley/25206/view/

My question is how is one supposed to know what the carjackers intent is? Is he going to take you hostage or injure/kill you in the process of stealing your car?

Personally, if I see a weapon the lead starts flying. I'm not suggesting that would be appropriate for everyone in all situations in all parts of the country.

I'm reading some reports that carjackers actually shoot it out with police. That is a desperate carjacker or in some cases, carjackers.

Reminds me of robbing banks a hundred years ago before that became a losing bet.

Most states have some kind of justifiable homicide statute that covers shooting people in an attempt to stop them from committing a violent felony. Here’s New Mexico’s for example:



NM Stat § 30-2-7
Homicide is justifiable when committed by any person in any of the following cases:

A. when committed in the necessary defense of his life, his family or his property, or in necessarily defending against any unlawful action directed against himself, his wife or family;

B. when committed in the lawful defense of himself or of another and when there is a reasonable ground to believe a design exists to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury against such person or another, and there is imminent danger that the design will be accomplished; or

C. when necessarily committed in attempting, by lawful ways and means, to apprehend any person for any felony committed in his presence, or in lawfully suppressing any riot, or in necessarily and lawfully keeping and preserving the peace.

The only thing that makes Louisiana's statute different is that it specifically mentions carjacking.

[Borderland]

That's great.

In WA stand-your-ground applies to inside your vehicle. Someone displaying a weapon who is trying to carjack you is fair game. That might not be the case every time so better not shoot every carjacker that you encounter in WA. :)

[HCM]

Greg asks what I'd feel if I shot a 12 year old robber?
Recoil.


https://youtu.be/HLyrOUDlAbo?si=vaDQ4GX5s5HIA-a2

[Coyotesfan97]

We had a small scenario we could repeat easily during a SWAT training in the early 2000s that involved a father putting an obvious IED vest on his 13 year old son and forcing him to walk towards the Immediate Action Team with the intention of blowing them up. There was sniper coverage. It was made clear Dad had explosives experience and knew how to make bombs. The point of the drill was putting the snipers in a position where they had to decide whether to shoot or not. IIRC only one did not shoot and the IAT shot ended up shooting the kid.

It was a pretty thought provoking scenario. It definitely was an eye opener. IIRC they did remedial with the one sniper who did not shoot. I liked the guys on the rifle who could make cold, analytical shots as needed. We did a lot of scenarios that were high risk but low probability. It forced guys to think and prepare themselves for unlikely events.

[Jamie]

And the irony is a person can be charged for shooting a carjacker, except possibly in Louisiana.

https://journals.library.wustl.edu/urbanlaw/article/8373/galley/25206/view/



I worked in New Orleans from 1987-2005.

A short time before this law went into effect I was working nights in a Hospital near St. Charles Avenue. An NOPD Officer stopped by one night and told us (ER Staff) that if we exited the area via Claiborne to get onto the I-10 to NOT stop at any redlights if there was any means to safely cross the intersection, but if we had to stop to make sure we had a handgun in easy reach. Apparently there was increasing frequency of staff leaving the hospital getting carjacked, beaten, or stabbed.
Every Physician, Nurse, etc I knew at the very least carried a handgun in their car and brought them into their lockers when they arrived at work.
NOPD looked out for us.

I well remember when this law went into effect. Quite an uproar from the liberal media... "Death in the streets! Wild West" etc... but it seemed to have a pronounced deterrent affect on the criminal element as carjackings dropped significantly. I don't recall any "killings" from overreacting drivers.

Louisiana had long viewed your automobile as an extension of your home. As long as you were not up to nefarious activities there was no issue carrying a firearm in your car. (This was before reciprocity of carry permits went into common use iirc... been a while.)

Excellent article, links and podcast above.

These last few years with no or little repercussions for criminal acts, to me, has reinforced my decision to continue carrying my G19 AIWB and pocket carry my LCR.
I'm getting old and slow and do my best to avoid questionable situations...but I only get one vote in that.
"Interesting times"

[Clusterfrack]

A long time ago, I was in an Italian train station and a gang of Roma kids tried to take my camera. I don't think I broke any fingers, wrists, or elbows but there was a lot of squealing and they quickly decided to find another target.

What's so tricky in the posted example is figuring out where we are on the continuum. If there are weapons, things are much more clear...

[breakingtime91]

I read parts of the article, will finish when I get home. One trend I have heard in this area is groups of 2-4 guys will stop in the middle of a acting like they are turning, etc. Then everyone, including the driver will get out with firearms and car jack you. Had a situation like this the other day that turned out to be nothing but I had my hand on my gun and the truck ready to do bumper cars

[G19Fan]

I read parts of the article, will finish when I get home. One trend I have heard in this area is groups of 2-4 guys will stop in the middle of a acting like they are turning, etc. Then everyone, including the driver will get out with firearms and car jack you. Had a situation like this the other day that turned out to be nothing but I had my hand on my gun and the truck ready to do bumper cars

Not sure if you are in California or Seattle but that plus people hitting you are preferred carjacking methods