How Perishable is all this stuff?

[45dotACP]

In the almost ten years I've been doing BJJ and martial arts...I've encountered more than a few guys who were once purple belts in BJJ who came to a new school but had a long layoff. I get it. Buying a house, having a kid, new jobs, moving etc...all that stuff tends to take a front seat to most of the self defense LARPing stuff that I do. Let's be real, a J-frame is probably exactly the amount of gun I need in the safe suburban life I live.

But these guys tend to really not be that good. To the point where I wonder if they actually were even purple belts at one point. Purple seems to be a special point in BJJ...one where you kind of have a game, know the fundamentals, and can put foot to ass on not only a brand new guy, but most lower belts. But I've put a whoopin on more than a few guys who were once purple and more than a few tough blue belts have put the whoopin on me after my recent move and subsequent backsliding in the BJJ world.

So my question is this: Is martial arts skill terribly perishable? Do we lose it as fast as say...a heavy back squat after a few months of inactivity...or is it something like shooting skills where just a few days of dedicated drilling will get you back to your previous mastery? Is it somewhere in between those things?

Thought it might be an interesting discussion, because I haven't seen a lot of unarmed combatives content lately, and I really really like this subforum.

[Totem Polar]

I’m pretty sure BJJ is quite perishable. I’ve seen purple belts take large chunks of time off and not even remember the warm up drills before class beyond shrimping and forward/backward rolls.

I’d use myself as another example, except that I had no real skills to perish. I did retain enough of the basic survival position drilling from several IAJJ seminars that the Gracie Barra black belts I rolled with a few weeks ago kept asking where I had trained before, but that’s super-fundamental stuff from typical month 1 BJJ that Cecil has figured out how to distill down and make stick (and work).

Now, boxing or Karate? I haven’t found that stuff to be anywhere near as perishable, beyond flexibility/endurance and the ragged edge of timing/distancing. Just one guy’s experience, OMMV of course.

I’d be curious what others have to say about BJJ; might be different after decades and higher ranking.

[Flamingo]

I think, if you compare a purple belt from today to a purple belt from 10 years ago the purple of today is going to be better. My coaches always say that the level of knowledge is much higher today. They also say that the training from the 10-15 years ago was harder on the body.

[JCN]

So my question is this: Is martial arts skill terribly perishable? Do we lose it as fast as say...a heavy back squat after a few months of inactivity...or is it something like shooting skills where just a few days of dedicated drilling will get you back to your previous mastery? Is it somewhere in between those things?


I have no BJJ context but I suspect your shooting context is more white or yellow belt level.

For example, I’m maybe purple belt equivalent shooting.

When I took off 6 months for long guns… it took (and is taking me) >4 months to get near previous pistol skill level. Definitely NOT just a few casual days.

[45dotACP]

I have no BJJ context but I suspect your shooting context is more white or yellow belt level.

For example, I’m maybe purple belt equivalent shooting.

When I took off 6 months for long guns… it took (and is taking me) >4 months to get near previous pistol skill level. Definitely NOT just a few casual days.

JCN: "We have to cancel these GM cards brather. Who give him this?"

https://youtube.com/shorts/08r0JtiKD_Y?si=sdidEqhjSjry6MQ8

[MickAK]

What I've noticed in street fights is people who gained skill in an intense period of training when they were really into it and then stopped because they got into motorcycles or traveling or whatever tend to have more perishable skills than people that consistently went once a week for 10 years or whatever.

The former tend to try to do things they can't do anymore and get fucked up as a result. They would be better off just fighting like a normal guy. The latter don't try to do things outside of their skillset and that seems to be pretty effective. I think that translates to shooting and all kinds of skills.

I think the question is how do you tell which skills are going to be perishable and which ones you can rely on once you've burned them into muscle memory. It's probably different for every person but I think it's a good thing to know.

[Borderland]

With so many people carrying a concealed firearm how does any martial arts training transfer to SD in most situations where you need to stop an aggressor?

Just asking because I don't do martial arts but I carry. Basically because I'm too old to go one on one in a grapple with some guy half my age. I can barely get out of bed in the morning.

Too old to fight and too old to run. My training consists of live fire once a month with my J frame 38 or my 9mm compact.

Yes, I have insurance in the unlikely event I'm arrested. WA is a stand your ground state.

OK Boomer.

[Lost River]

With so many people carrying a concealed firearm how does any martial arts training transfer to SD in most situations where you need to stop an aggressor?

Just asking because I don't do martial arts but I carry. Basically because I'm too old to go one on one in a grapple with some guy half my age.

Too old to fight and too old to run. My training consists of live fire once a month with my J frame 38 or my 9mm compact.

OK Boomer.

Over the course of multiple decades of carrying a gun for a living, I disarmed more than a couple guys who absolutely thought they were in charge of the situation because they had pulled a handgun out. Before they could even understand what was happening, they did not have control of their handgun anymore, and their heads were (usually) bouncing very hard off the deck, as they became asphalt angels.

They would universally have a look of "what just happened?" on their faces. They were fortunate as their other option was getting shot. Thinking that "I have a gun, I don't need to know any defensive skills beyond shooting at paper once a month" is not a good plan. Don't be surprised if someone is not at all afraid of you and your gun and will take it from you before you can say "uhoh".

I am not the smartest guy when it comes to martial arts. I was however a weapons retention instructor, and when it came to dealing with people in the street I follow two simple rules:

Where the head goes, the body follows.
and
You can't fight if you can't breath.

Those two served me quite well.

YMMV.

[Flamingo]

With so many people carrying a concealed firearm how does any martial arts training transfer to SD in most situations where you need to stop an aggressor?

Just asking because I don't do martial arts but I carry. Basically because I'm too old to go one on one in a grapple with some guy half my age. I can barely get out of bed in the morning.

Too old to fight and too old to run. My training consists of live fire once a month with my J frame 38 or my 9mm compact.

Yes, I have insurance in the unlikely event I'm arrested. WA is a stand your ground state.

OK Boomer.

You should go to Cecil's class October. It is going to be in Lacy. He covers everythig you will need. Do it.

[Borderland]

Over the course of multiple decades of carrying a gun for a living, I disarmed more than a couple guys who absolutely thought they were in charge of the situation because they had pulled a handgun out. Before they could even understand what was happening, they did not have control of their handgun anymore, and their heads were (usually) bouncing very hard off the deck, as they became asphalt angels.

They would universally have a look of "what just happened?" on their faces. They were fortunate as their other option was getting shot. Thinking that "I have a gun, I don't need to know any defensive skills beyond shooting at paper once a month" is not a good plan. Don't be surprised if someone is not at all afraid of you and your gun and will take it from you before you can say "uhoh".

I am not the smartest guy when it comes to martial arts. I was however a weapons retention instructor, and when it came to dealing with people in the street I follow two simple rules:

Where the head goes, the body follows.
and
You can't fight if you can't breath.

Those two served me quite well.

YMMV.

You can't fight if you've been shot in the chest either. YMMV.

[Trooper224]

You can't fight if you've been shot in the abdomen either. YMMV.

Personal experience has shown that to be far from absolute.

I spent years practicing martial arts, kempo, blade arts, etc. I also spent nearly thirty years dealing with chaos. All of that lead me to one stark conclusion. Martial arts are great. Guns are great. Knowledge, skill and experience are all vital building blocks. However, one thing stands above it all: be decisive and willing.

If you think a gun is a cure all it is, only if you're willing to use it. If not you've likely provided your opponent with a nice alternative. If you think your chop socky skills put you a step ahead, that's fine until someone who isn't as impressed as you are is bouncing your head off the concrete.

I've seen cops who approached BJJ as if it were a religion, like some here seem to, get their heads handed to them by someone who didn't know anything, but were just junkyard dog mean and didn't hesitate. All they wanted to do was cause pain and damage, and weren't bothered by the thought of taking some themselves in order to get it done.

I always came out ahead working the road because I was decisive and wouldn't hesitate. I preached that to recruits when I was an instructor. Quite frankly, I've never had a problem with hurting other people, I was just smart enough to stay within the law while I was doing it. I ran into more than one individual half my age who thought they were the second coming of Chuck Lidell, until they found out world isn't the gym. You don't "roll" in the world.

You break things and hurt people before they do it to you.

[45dotACP]

Personal experience has shown that to be far from absolute.

I spent years practicing martial arts, kempo, blade arts, etc. I also spent nearly thirty years dealing with chaos. All of that lead me to one stark conclusion. Martial arts are great. Guns are great. Knowledge, skill and experience are all vital building blocks. However, one thing stands above it all: be decisive and willing.

If you think a gun is a cure all it is, only if you're willing to use it. If not you've likely provided your opponent with a nice alternative. If you think your chop socky skills put you a step ahead, that's fine until someone who isn't as impressed as you are is bouncing your head off the concrete.

I've seen cops who approached BJJ as if it were a religion, like some here seem to, get their heads handed to them by someone who didn't know anything, but were just junkyard dog mean and didn't hesitate. All they wanted to do was cause pain and damage, and weren't bothered by the thought of taking some themselves in order to get it done.

I always came out ahead working the road because I was decisive and wouldn't hesitate. I preached that to recruits when I was an instructor. Quite frankly, I've never had a problem with hurting other people, I was just smart enough to stay within the law while I was doing it. I ran into more than one individual half my age who thought they were the second coming of Chuck Lidell, until they found out world isn't the gym. You don't "roll" in the world.

You break things and hurt people before they do it to you.

Would you say it might also be because of the "watering down" of BJJ or other martial arts?

Often the notion of "I got you, now we reset." is such a common thing in martial arts.

Point Karate resets after someone scores a feathery light backfist, BJJ resets when a guy who has to work for a living doesn't want to put a sling on his arm. Almost nobody is really training take hard head contact or hyperextend a joint and then tear every ligament in the arm...so even the average BJJ guy today may pop someone's arm lightly, but if said person is willing to eat a few pops...well then what are you gonna do?

I have a lot of thoughts about why I don't think BJJ is all that great for self defense, but I'm actually curious about your thoughts on how much your ability to prevail in an unarmed confrontation has changed as time has passed?

[Trooper224]

Would you say it might also be because of the "watering down" of BJJ or other martial arts?

Often the notion of "I got you, now we reset." is such a common thing in martial arts.

Point Karate resets after someone scores a feathery light backfist, BJJ resets when a guy who has to work for a living doesn't want to put a sling on his arm. Almost nobody is really training take hard head contact or hyperextend a joint and then tear every ligament in the arm...so even the average BJJ guy today may pop someone's arm lightly, but if said person is willing to eat a few pops...well then what are you gonna do?

I have a lot of thoughts about why I don't think BJJ is all that great for self defense, but I'm actually curious about your thoughts on how much your ability to prevail in an unarmed confrontation has changed as time has passed?

I think all martial arts eventually suffer from a watering down, an emphasis on the "art" at the expense of the "martial". The natural propensity in the west is to turn everything into a sport eventually. Afterall, most people live pretty safe lives and the chance to actually go "martial" instead of "art" is fortunately quite rare. So, in order to keep motivated there has to be some kind of payoff. If it isn't actual results in the world, then it turns into pretty colored belts, trophies, etc. It's just unavoidable human nature. Thus, in time everything becomes a game, and we all have to go to work on Monday.

I'm not really down on BJJ, or any other art. I don't want to leave anyone with that impression. But, they can become religion and that's dangerous. They all have things to offer, but one has to maintain perspective.

As for my own abilities? As I near six decades I'm starting to pay for an active youth, where I gave little thought to future consequences. My last real physical fight on the job was about two years before I retired. The outcome was to my advantage, but when I got out of bed the next morning my body made it clear we needed to be done with that. I was fifty one at the time.

Now, at 58, I'm still someone you should just leave alone. But, admittedly, I'm not what I was. I still work out regularly, but I can't do it like I did when I was younger. Now, instead of just running in and trusting to sudden violence to achieve an outcome, I have to use my brain and experience to recognize stupid people and stupid places I don't want to associate with. Something that should be at the top of everyone's skill set, regardless of age. I think my ability to prevail in an encounter has dramatically increased over the years, simply because I've learned to spot them before they start. Avoidance is the best strategy.

However, if violence chooses to find me, my complete lack of concern and empathy for those who engage in such activities, as well as the tools I habitually have on my person give me a better than average chance at a positive outcome.

[bofe954]

You should go to Cecil's class October. It is going to be in Lacy. He covers everything you will need. Do it.

Do you have a link or more info?

I'm a shitty blue belt. I have taken time off here and there for injuries and I am definitely out of sorts when I go back.

My gym is a competition gym with near zero emphasis on self defense. I try and take the advice of Chris Haueter-

"Think Street, Train Sport, Practice the Art."

The other use for BJJ I always liked was the "drunk uncle/brother in law" argument. You are at a family party and a family member is drunk and going crazy, the argument for BJJ vs striking was that you want to control the family member, not beat the shit out of them. So what are you going to do when you pull that sweet armbar and they don't tap? You don't want to break their arm, and now you are on your back, if you don't break it you may be getting stacked up and beaten down yourself. I have similar thoughts about leg locks.

I think some moves are better than others for street, sport and art. Hopefully you get good enough at all of it and are smart enough to do what's right in the situation, or take some specific training here and there.

I think I'm still better off for having spent the time grappling than not, and how else are you going to train that will be better?

I think it all starts to mirror the "killed on the streets" arguments against USPSA/IDPA.

Brian Enos had a line that something like, "You are drowning, would you rather the guy trying to save you is an olympic swimmer, or kiddie pool lifeguard?

I just got done watching a video of Craig Jones pulling like 5 ezekiels on another grappler in like 5 minutes. I am pretty sure he could find a way to defend himself if he had to and he's not training self defense.

[feudist]

Personal experience has shown that to be far from absolute.

I spent years practicing martial arts, kempo, blade arts, etc. I also spent nearly thirty years dealing with chaos. All of that lead me to one stark conclusion. Martial arts are great. Guns are great. Knowledge, skill and experience are all vital building blocks. However, one thing stands above it all: be decisive and willing.

If you think a gun is a cure all it is, only if you're willing to use it. If not you've likely provided your opponent with a nice alternative. If you think your chop socky skills put you a step ahead, that's fine until someone who isn't as impressed as you are is bouncing your head off the concrete.

I've seen cops who approached BJJ as if it were a religion, like some here seem to, get their heads handed to them by someone who didn't know anything, but were just junkyard dog mean and didn't hesitate. All they wanted to do was cause pain and damage, and weren't bothered by the thought of taking some themselves in order to get it done.

I always came out ahead working the road because I was decisive and wouldn't hesitate. I preached that to recruits when I was an instructor. Quite frankly, I've never had a problem with hurting other people, I was just smart enough to stay within the law while I was doing it. I ran into more than one individual half my age who thought they were the second coming of Chuck Lidell, until they found out world isn't the gym. You don't "roll" in the world.

You break things and hurt people before they do it to you.
The "Sport" mindset that permeates the human mental and emotional landscape contributes to a lot of failure in what we laughingly refer to as real life.
Not "Gaming", where rules are exploited to the very edge of cheating in order to provide an advantage to a specific challenge, but the unconscious framework of assumptions about training and execution that leads one to believe that rules exist at all.
With a couple of notable(and recent) exceptions-esp SN, Dueling is what is being practiced, emotionally ritualized and shaped psychologically using symmetrical techniques, rule sets and victory conditions.
Assaultive predatory criminal behavior tends to spring from either a physical ambush or a psychological ambush(pretense) both of which are designed to deliver a fait accompli. The criminal isn't looking for a fight, or a demonstration of superior technique, or a satisfying display of prowess by defeating you.
A lot of people who shoot or practice some form of H2H never really internalize that reality, and consequently get their OODA loop...looped. They emotionally compartmentalize the recreation of shooting or H2H from the very antisocial intent to seriously hurt someone without any posturing or warning.

One of the more interesting "Martial Arts" is Capoeira. Not because its techniques hold any real combative value at all(it is literally a physical expression of playing "Dozens", insulting and getting over on your opponent through dancing, posturing and counting coup) but because of the underlying concept that it instills called Malicia.
The root word "Malice" is pretty instructive, and it predicates a continuous mindset of trickery, treachery, cheating, advantage seeking, opportunism and quite simply ill intent that has no code of behavior, etiquette or honor.
An entire worldview devoted to being offside.

[Flamingo]

Do you have a link or more info?

Here is the info (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?56994-Cecil-Burch-Immediate-Action-Combatives-October-6-8-Lacey-WA), If you PM an email address I can send the flyer.

[willie]

I can't explain this, but I think some people are inordinately stronger than others who have similar muscle mass. I observed examples when working in corrections. Combining such strength with good coordination, endurance, meanness, anger, and stupidity creates a dangerous opponent.

[feudist]

I can't explain this, but I think some people are inordinately stronger than others who have similar muscle mass. I observed examples when working in corrections. Combining such strength with good coordination, endurance, meanness, anger, and stupidity creates a dangerous opponent.

Neurological efficiency, rate of force production, ratio of fast twitch muscle fibers, muscle insertions,lever arm lengths, hand/eye coordination, learned or trained ability to access rage states or flow states, pain threshold/pain sensitivity...
An ancient Ayoob comment about stopping power seems appropriate "Nothing is everything, but everything is something."

[Hambo]

Is martial arts skill terribly perishable?

You don't hit the pause button when you take time off: you keep getting older. Your strength, reflexes, and vision are going to shit on a daily basis.

[Clusterfrack]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230925/67afb0d8309723f177dc4767cb272d4c.jpg

For me, things that are technique based are the most perishable. Especially if I’m not at the subconscious mastery phase of learning. On the other hand, it takes me a lot less time and effort to refresh moldy skills than it took to learn them the first time.

Also, I think there’s value in taking a break and coming back to it. Fresh perspectives, etc.

[Totem Polar]

Do you have a link or more info?

I'm a shitty blue belt. I have taken time off here and there for injuries and I am definitely out of sorts when I go back.

My gym is a competition gym with near zero emphasis on self defense.

Sidebar: I think you’d really dig a weekend of IAJJ to tie some things together. JMO.

[Chance]

I have been touch-and-go with BJJ since my introduction to it in 2004. My personal experience: technical minutia and timing go out the window pretty much immediately; broad-strokes stuff you've trained to unconscious competence seems to hang around.

On more than one occasion returning to the mat after a hiatus, I have been surprised by my body reflexively doing things that my brain couldn't figure out immediately. As in, "Why the fuck did my leg just do that? Oh wait, that's a _____!" It then takes two minutes of instruction for me to correctly do _____, but the rudiments were still in there.

[DDTSGM]

Over the course of multiple decades of carrying a gun for a living, I disarmed more than a couple guys who absolutely thought they were in charge of the situation because they had pulled a handgun out. Before they could even understand what was happening, they did not have control of their handgun anymore, and their heads were (usually) bouncing very hard off the deck, as they became asphalt angels.

They would universally have a look of "what just happened?" on their faces. They were fortunate as their other option was getting shot. Thinking that "I have a gun, I don't need to know any defensive skills beyond shooting at paper once a month" is not a good plan. Don't be surprised if someone is not at all afraid of you and your gun and will take it from you before you can say "uhoh".

I am not the smartest guy when it comes to martial arts. I was however a weapons retention instructor, and when it came to dealing with people in the street I follow two simple rules:

Where the head goes, the body follows.
and
You can't fight if you can't breath.

Those two served me quite well.

YMMV.


You can't fight if you've been shot in the chest either. YMMV.

If you comment was getting shot in the chest while attempting a takeaway, the first rule af weapon retention (and requisition) is don't get shot. :rolleyes: Seriously, in the systems we taught - primarily Lindell PPCT and some hybrid involving throws - the first steps were usually distract and get offline.

If you are talking frome the other perspective, shooting the bad guy in the chest, I'd like to mention that many folks are surprised to see the gun aimed at them. Unlike in our fantasy gunfight, very often we are caught unaware, in condition white, in real life.

My personal belief wa that the best thing I could do for all the officers I helped train was instill the gift of movement in them. I knew no matter how much we talked about situational awareness, most often when someone tried to shoot them during a vehicle stop, for instance, the officer in most cases would be caught unawares. The thing that most likely keeps them safe is not standing and drawing, but moving out of the kill zone ideally while drawing and keeping their vest square into the threat.

If you are fighting and standing still, you're doing something wrong.

[Cecil Burch]

BJJ tends to be perishable if the mental emphasis by the indiviual practitioner has been on techniques. That is absolutley perishable. I find that happenieng to me a lot where I see someone doing a move, or someone online teaching a technique, and I think "I used to do that all the time but have not for years". And then if I go back and attemot it, it usually is not great, even if at one time it was a go-to move.

OTOH, the person who looks at this with an eye towards principles and overall physical movements tend to remain. Maybe a tiny bit off in timing, but with a short bit of polish, it is GTG. A case in point was when I had to be off the mats for 3 months with meniscus surgery. When I got back, I was so afraid of forgetting everything, but within a couple of classes, I was hitting moves I had never hit before on guys who were studs. IT all came down to not trying to remember specific techniques, but just moving properly and maintaining principles no matter what.

This is the entire crux of who is good in jiujitsu early, vs who struggles for years. Technique is borderline irrelevant, but is the martial art version of gear for gun folks - it is the easy thing to glom onto and obsess over.

[03RN]

You can't fight if you've been shot in the chest either. YMMV.

Yes you can

[Flamingo]

Yes you can


Thanks for posting that.

A little story from the earlyish days of GWOT. A co-worker had retired from one of the cool guy units and and was working security. He was on a convoy from Bagram to Kabul when his convoy was ambushed. During the gunfight he thought he was having a heart attack, he was in his mid-50s, but after the fight he realized he had taken a 7.62x39 round through his chest.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Well known: https://www.police1.com/officer-safety/articles/i-knew-i-wasnt-going-to-die-sgt-stacy-lims-story-of-survival-J2ay86axRN55pvP8/#:~:text=Stacy's%20round%20hit%20the%20suspect,siz e%20hole%20in%20her%20back.


The .357 round entered Stacy’s chest, nicked the base of her heart, her diaphragm, liver, intestine, and shattered her spleen before exiting through a tennis ball-size hole in her back. The impact caused her to take one step back, but somehow she maintained a good stance and proper grip of her weapon.

Stacy described the pain of that bullet traveling through her body: “If you take a javelin, heat it up about 1,000 degrees, shove the thing through your chest, that’s about what it feels like — a real burning sensation.”

In the moment, she thought to herself, No time for pain right now. I’ll take time to feel it later.

She sensed the suspect had friends and she was still in danger so she moved cautiously to the back corner of her car and leaned out a bit. She spotted the suspect with weapon in-hand. He fired five more times at her, but the rounds flew over her right shoulder, high.

Stacy returned fire three more times, all of which hit the suspect. He was out of business. The other “Highland Park Crazies” fled the scene.

[GAP]

BJJ tends to be perishable if the mental emphasis by the indiviual practitioner has been on techniques. That is absolutley perishable. I find that happenieng to me a lot where I see someone doing a move, or someone online teaching a technique, and I think "I used to do that all the time but have not for years". And then if I go back and attemot it, it usually is not great, even if at one time it was a go-to move.

OTOH, the person who looks at this with an eye towards principles and overall physical movements tend to remain. Maybe a tiny bit off in timing, but with a short bit of polish, it is GTG. A case in point was when I had to be off the mats for 3 months with meniscus surgery. When I got back, I was so afraid of forgetting everything, but within a couple of classes, I was hitting moves I had never hit before on guys who were studs. IT all came down to not trying to remember specific techniques, but just moving properly and maintaining principles no matter what.

This is the entire crux of who is good in jiujitsu early, vs who struggles for years. Technique is borderline irrelevant, but is the martial art version of gear for gun folks - it is the easy thing to glom onto and obsess over.

As someone who got started in BJJ and went on to have 12 MMA fights, I agree with you.

The principles and rules (leverage) remain, regardless of time off, fancy new techniques, etc. Additionally, I think those who practiced recreationally for “sport” are going to have a harder time than someone who practiced for years with a “position before submission,” slow grind on the opponent until in a dominant position mindset.

The easiest attribute to lose is conditioning (but also the quickest to add back on), so in my experience, if the guy was a solid purple belt and is really struggling, it’s likely a lack of conditioning vs. the younger, faster guys on the mat. You have to play to your strength, which is experience. If I can’t overpower you, I know I can weather most people if I remain patient and slowly advance my position as you make small mistakes.

I see a lot of guys try to out scramble guys half their age and forget that it’s about using leverage to obtain positional dominance.

[nwhpfan]

So my question is this: Is martial arts skill terribly perishable? Do we lose it as fast as say...a heavy back squat after a few months of inactivity...or is it something like shooting skills where just a few days of dedicated drilling will get you back to your previous mastery? Is it somewhere in between those things?



If Daniel Coyle is a member here or if somebody else can cite the scientists that study this kind of thing - but at least according to him and The Talent Code (https://danielcoyle.com/the-talent-code/) - skills and ability will diminish without practice. He goes on to list just about everything from playing music to playing sports -I wouldn't expect BJJ would be any different. FWIW I do BJJ and I'm also a competitive shooter.

[Totem Polar]

If Daniel Coyle is a member here or if somebody else can cite the scientists that study this kind of thing - but at least according to him and The Talent Code (https://danielcoyle.com/the-talent-code/) - skills and ability will diminish without practice. He goes on to list just about everything from playing music to playing sports -I wouldn't expect BJJ would be any different. FWIW I do BJJ and I'm also a competitive shooter.

I can talk about the music aspect of that a bit. At the level I need to maintain to be relevant professionally, I can miss a day of practice. At 2 days off, it will start to show in performance, internally. At 3 days off, I’m in trouble in front of people. That’s at an advanced level of classical music performance, for money.

Now, that said, I’m pretty sure I could walk away from my instrument for a decade, and still pick it up and make people think I’m amateur/ok by playing a few basics.

No idea how that relates to BJJ. I can relate it to both shooting and Goju-ryu pretty closely however, having taken well over a decade off from both, and then stepped back in.

Tangentially, the book that is the pure drop for “the talent code” is “Peak,” by Anders Ericsson. Cecil Burch turned me on to that.

Back in my lane now.

[M2CattleCo]

I can't explain this, but I think some people are inordinately stronger than others who have similar muscle mass. I observed examples when working in corrections. Combining such strength with good coordination, endurance, meanness, anger, and stupidity creates a dangerous opponent.



That’s me. I was a scrawny 127 until I was 40, now I’m about 130-135.

I never cared for MMA but I used to do it quite a bit because not many people liked to box and I wanted to spar so sometimes I had to roll around with the MMA guys. I always thought it was a bunch of bullshit.

[Duces Tecum]

However, one thing stands above it all: be decisive and willing.

Reminded me of a brief conversation in one of my favorite movies . . .

Gillom Rogers:
Mr. Books, How is it you've killed so many men? My spread wasn't much bigger than yours.
[B]John Bernard Books:
First of all,friend, there's no one up there shooting back at you. Second, I found most men aren't willing, they bat an eye, or draw a breath before they shoot. I won't. (https://www.quotes.net/mquote/1116107)

Duces

[leekellerking]

Reminded me of a brief conversation in one of my favorite movies . . .

Gillom Rogers:
Mr. Books, How is it you've killed so many men? My spread wasn't much bigger than yours.
[B]John Bernard Books:
First of all,friend, there's no one up there shooting back at you. Second, I found most men aren't willing, they bat an eye, or draw a breath before they shoot. I won't. (https://www.quotes.net/mquote/1116107)

Duces

Possibly John Wayne's best acting job and still a quote that is relevant to the use of deadly force.

Skills degrade, but some quicker than others. I just know that twice in the last year, I've realized that I can still do a shoulder roll fall and come back on my feet, and it has been 4 decades since I trained in Hapkido. Go figure.