32 S&W Long Wadcutters vs 380?

[Dov]

Wondering how 32 S&W Long in Ruger LCR or J frame compares to whatever top 380 loads in Ruger LCP or Glock 42?

I normally carry Glock 26's for pocket carry and 38 special J frame when need lighter gun but age and health issues making shooting even light 38 loads in Airweight J frame debilitating.

So starting to explore alternatives to my J frame.

My experience with the truly tiny pistols, Keltec P32 specifically have been poor. Grip is just to small for one handed shooting under any pressure for my hands, even before my current pain issues.

I'm not comfortable dropping down to rimfire in snubby, but have been really interested in discussions about the 327 Federal mag snubbies with 32 Long wadcutters, plus if needed even more recoil reduction for bulk of practice could step down to 32 short for even less recoil.

[Malamute]

Ive got the 32 s&w long in the back of my mind as a geezer gun, but I think Ill drop to 38 Short Colts in the 38 spl first. the standard loads run a 125 gr bullet at 700-something fps. I loaded some for light plinkers, but may work up a slightly faster load with the TC 125 gr bullets to find the comfort level in the small guns and see how they do. I also have a Ideal 358345 mold, which is a 115 gr swc.


I have a weird project in mind, a Colt D frame with frame flat topped/target sighted and a 22 Diamondback barrel rebored to 32. It would be a fun shooter and small game gun mainly, but I guess would make a fair geezer gun.

[Gun Mutt]

If I've linked this Lucky Gunner article (https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/pocket-pistol-caliber-gel-test-results/#380ACP) correctly, it should open on .380 with .32 Long right below it.

Buffalo Bore .32 Long is quite pleasant in the LCR.

[Jamie]

Buffalo Bore .32 Long is quite pleasant in the LCR.

This is the load that lives in my .327 LCR. Very pleasant, minimal recoil, and accurate for me.
I try and mimic this round with my handloads.

I hope once Georgia Arms recovers from the fire damage they'll pursue development on a Self Defense round in .32 S&W. Best wishes to them. Good company. Nice folks.

[Up1911Fan]

I also chose 32Long over 380 for my small guns. I have a pair of LCR's and use the BB load as well. I prefer a snub over an LCP sized auto.

[CCT125US]

Dov I haven't kept up on journals, did you talk about your injuries there? IIRC you're a bit younger than me, just curious what caused the current issues.

For exploring the pocket gun, I've got the 442, tried the 43c disaster, and came back to the LCP. Running 70gr IRT by Federal, is very pleasant. Along with my handloads, (yes I'm once again loading .380) it is quite fun to shoot.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Got a SW 432 and load it with Buffalo Bore 32 HR Mag, the reload in a speed loader or strip is Hornady, which I have quite a bit of. I toyed with buying an LCR but didn't. I belt carry a revolver its an out of production SW 632 SS, hammered, comp'ed, 3 inch 327 mag. I have that loaded with a fierce hard cast BB 327 mag - for hikes on trails. Love that gun. Put on fiber optic front sight. I shot it quite a bit with 32 SW Longs as outlaw in IDPA. BTW, I've mentioned before that with a full, balls to the wall, 327 Mag load, it is a beast and BOOM. Scares the children. It will whack your hand if you don't get a good grip.

[Dov]

CCT125US

I've talked a bit about my health issues but not great depth, TLDR version related to self defense & shooting several issues that cause body wide chronic pain, plus fatigue issues, plus some additional pain issues because for previous ~decade pain and fatigue prevented me from working or being active much at all.

Lot of minor things can trigger severe muscle spasms & pain, no way I can do any type of contact martial arts anymore, though I can still do punching bag, cardio, & weight lifting so it could be worse.

I had some surgery around 2017/2018 that helped lot with sleep/fatigue issues, before that I spent lot of time in bed because just didn't have energy to do much, after that surgery didn't need to lay around all day very often but basically sat at my desk (home office) on computer which led to some additional pain related to sitting for so many hours.

This year I've made big improvements, so much that I'm finally working again though not fulltime, with a lot of physical therapy and etc building on the strength & cardio I've been doing since that surgery, I'm hoping I might be able to shoot my Airweight J frame with 130 FMJ and wadcutters without severe pain by end of year because I have been making a lot of progress, but last time I shot J frame with just 130 FMJ it crippled my hand for 3-4 days and hurt bad for few days past that.

I'm not weak strength wise, since that surgery that helped with sleep I started lifting weights again, my dead lift is still nowhere where it used to be, but otherwise I'm reasonably close to my old strength despite being almost 15 years older than when this started and 40 lbs lighter. At this point most of the muscle mass I'm still missing is from legs and lower back.

But I am limited by grip strength I can exert without triggering spasms, I think with the J frame with the 130 FMJ it was the grip force needed more than the recoil.

I can grip full strength with dumbbells and barbells and chin up bar with no problems as long as keep good form with wrists, but many types of grip especially pinch gripping or griping and twisting at certain angles can trigger spasms bad enough to cause bruises.

[Malamute]

I think Lost River loads and sells some 38 Short Colt ammo, it may be worth a try to see if its in your comfort range for your existing gun until you can get back to wadcutters or whatever.

Edit: just looked, his are a bit above the standard velocity factory loads, I dont know how that translates to recoil in a small gun. if you reload or know someone that does, you can get some loads made on the lower end of the power/recoil scale. Completely untested opinion, but I think Id trust 38 Short Colts more than 22 rimfire as to effectiveness in a bad moment.





Can relate to much of your health journey.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

An interesting thread. I read a piece about how the computer media industries are not focusing as much as they should on older folks. At the Quest lab yesterday for a vampire draw, I saw older people totally befuddled by the check in kisok. How to use the menus, where to scan their insurance and licenses - horror show. One poor guy had to turn to the waiting room and say: Can someone help me?

I would have jumped up, but beaten to it by a nice younger woman. Since I have a good tech background, not a problem for me - YET!

I think it is an avenue for the gun world to explore. Guns for the older folks - like 32 revolvers with decent triggers, things like the easy rack guns, tip ups in 380 from Beretta, SW, Ruger. One might even argue for a pickle ball analog for competition. Current ones stress, heavy guns, running like a track meet to chase milliseconds. At our matches, we have solid group of super seniors who just want trigger time and hits - not a race where you stand at start like an Olympic sprinter. Holsters for the grumpy old bodies of all genders (not going there).

Not having more lesser caliber divisions - 22 LR, 32 ACP, etc - suggesting that brings on fits in some games!!! OMG!!!I don't see why running Glock 44s or the equivalent 'tactical' guns isn't allowed. Steel does it. We ran 22 LR carbines as a division in our carbine matches.

[Dov]

Ive got the 32 s&w long in the back of my mind as a geezer gun, but I think Ill drop to 38 Short Colts in the 38 spl first. the standard loads run a 125 gr bullet at 700-something fps. I loaded some for light plinkers, but may work up a slightly faster load with the TC 125 gr bullets to find the comfort level in the small guns and see how they do. I also have a Ideal 358345 mold, which is a 115 gr swc.


I have a weird project in mind, a Colt D frame with frame flat topped/target sighted and a 22 Diamondback barrel rebored to 32. It would be a fun shooter and small game gun mainly, but I guess would make a fair geezer gun.

I've thought about getting a 2" K frame for pocket carry, or just finding a 4" one in rough shape and have gunsmith shorten barrel and bob hammer.

While I'm pretty sure that would be workable with low recoil 38's it roughly same weight & size as the G26's

I will probably try a LCR with 32 Wadcutters and if that is to much probably just go with LCR in 22 WMR for my smaller & lighter than G26 niche.

I've though about geezer guns for myself before, but always thought I'd be older before I'd need them. I'm just past the half century mark.

[Malamute]

I've thought about getting a 2" K frame for pocket carry, or just finding a 4" one in rough shape and have gunsmith shorten barrel and bob hammer.

While I'm pretty sure that would be workable with low recoil 38's it roughly same weight & size as the G26's

I will probably try a LCR with 32 Wadcutters and if that is to much probably just go with LCR in 22 WMR for my smaller & lighter than G26 niche.

I've though about geezer guns for myself before, but always thought I'd be older before I'd need them. I'm just past the half century mark.


I pocket carried a 640 for a few years, then found a 1980s Colt Agent, which instantly became my favorite pocket carry gun, even with Pachmayr Compac grips. It splits the difference between J and K frame while giving 6 rds and has a very comfortable grip. If the recoil became a problem with it I think id try a steel frame Colt D frame, namely a Detective Special. I think the K is a bit more than I want to pocket carry, YMMV of course.

Edit: you might give some different grips a try on your current gun. They may not be optimal for carry ease, but may get you able to shoot it again without the pain. I never considered the Pachmayrs on a J, but they definitely make it easier to shoot. Ive been pleasantly surprised on how well the Colt with Pachmarys has worked out for pocket carry, as its the best grip ive found for it to shoot. Im able to do it with no holster or a milk jug holster with minimal low end protrusion so it sits low enough it doesnt show. The speedloader in the pocket keeps it in place for the most part.

Theres also older Colt Detective Specials and Police Positives (same frame with longer barrel, like 3"+) in 32 cal for somewhat reasonable prices. Colt called the 32 S&W long 32 Colt NP or New Police. One such gun with finish challenges would probably be the donor gun for my wanna-be Diamondback 32 project. In the Colt line, a Cobra or Agent is the alloy frame version in the older small D frames

Yes, Im somewhat new gun challenged. If anything newish strikes an interest, I tend to look for older versions of the same type or concept, and they are often less money.

When my injury happened, I felt like I aged about 15 years in a short time. Its been a bit over 10 years now. I had thought about geezer guns before, but also didnt expect to actually need them so soon.

[CCT125US]

Dov That's unfortunate, hopefully you continue down the path of recovery.

As I get seasoned, it's always interesting to discover how things affect me differently.

[Dov]

Theres also older Colt Detective Specials and Police Positives (same frame with longer barrel, like 3"+) in 32 cal for somewhat reasonable prices. Colt called the 32 S&W long 32 Colt NP or New Police. One such gun with finish challenges would probably be the donor gun for my wanna-be Diamondback 32 project. In the Colt line, a Cobra or Agent is the alloy frame version in the older small D frames

Yes, Im somewhat new gun challenged. If anything newish strikes an interest, I tend to look for older versions of the same type or concept, and they are often less money.

When my injury happened, I felt like I aged about 15 years in a short time. Its been a bit over 10 years now. I had thought about geezer guns before, but also didnt expect to actually need them so soon.

I actually like the idea of older revolvers, I really prefer revolvers to autos, but don't have any real experience with Colt revolvers. Only Colt revolver I've shot was friends Anaconda which I liked a lot.

Please feel free to expound on these older and reasonable (?) priced revolvers. Think DB mentioned something similar as good for non enthusiasts on ether podcast or thread though can't remember if he was talking about 32's or the 38 Short Colts you mentioned.

For older revolvers my only concerns would be parts if needed, sights (especially since my eyes are getting older like rest of me), and holsters.

[Malamute]

I actually like the idea of older revolvers, I really prefer revolvers to autos, but don't have any real experience with Colt revolvers. Only Colt revolver I've shot was friends Anaconda which I liked a lot.

Please feel free to expound on these older and reasonable (?) priced revolvers. Think DB mentioned something similar as good for non enthusiasts on ether podcast or thread though can't remember if he was talking about 32's or the 38 Short Colts you mentioned.

For older revolvers my only concerns would be parts if needed, sights (especially since my eyes are getting older like rest of me), and holsters.


I was somewhat concerned about doing basic work on them and parts, but the gunsmithing section of the Colt forum had some good how-to info, and there are in fact a handful of people still working on them. Jack First and Numrich have basic wear parts, like new hands. I also bought 2 guns minus frames for parts. Its probably a bit of overkill, but seemed like a good idea at the time and they didnt cost that much. I think its accurate to say the older Colts wont take as much general shooting without a tune-up, but I like them enough that I just accept it and drive on. Im starting to wonder if Im ever going to shoot my Agent enough in my lifetime to worry about parts or work, though I think I can probably fit a hand or modify one if need be.

I haunt gunbroker now and then, search revolvers, colt, 38 spl (or 32 as a search term on the upper banner, their 32 caliber selection thing is weird) and price low to high. Theres 2 sections, the ones with the blue stars, then it starts over with non premium sellers for the price scale. I see where the actual bids slow down, and dont get hung hung up on perfect condition. Some decent older Colts show up in the $400 to $600 range. Theres some fair deals, and a lot of very optimistic sellers or ones that cater to true collectors and perfect condition guns, which isnt me. Hanging out a bit on the Colt forum now and then has been informative. if i could afford it I could easily get strung out on older Colt DA revolvers. Tons of character in so many of them.

Ive just added the white then bright orange nail polish to pretty much all my pistol sights. The age of particular Colts had different widths of front sights, some better than others. I think the post war to heavy barrel/shrouded ejector rod period were wider than earlier or later. I dont sweat it either way, thats just what I know on sights. Pre-war probably have the harder to see sights but they can be improved with a file and paint. The 1980s Agent has a sort of skinny front sight but stands out well with the orange paint. Holsters seem to be around, Ive found a few vintage ones I like in brand new condition, but see newer made ones. It may depend on what type of holster you want. Holsters for the Detective Special should be fairly close to any D frame of similar barrel length, the difference would be the barrel contour/weight. Many parts interchange from early 1900s to recently, sort of like H-D motorcycles in some ways.

Outpost75 is probably the guy to ask about Colts. Im pretty much a novice to the Colt DA realm, just beginning to learn.

[Chuck Whitlock]

.... I'm hoping I might be able to shoot my Airweight J frame with 130 FMJ and wadcutters without severe pain by end of year because I have been making a lot of progress, but last time I shot J frame with just 130 FMJ it crippled my hand for 3-4 days and hurt bad for few days past that.


Just a data point, but I personally found 130 FMJ to be nearly as obnoxious as +P in my Airweight.

I would second trying some of Lost River's .38 short loads.

https://www.lostriverammocompany.com/product/38-Short-Colt-125-Grn-Poly-Coat-TC-Flat-Point-50-RND

[Duelist]

I pocket carried a 640 for a few years, then found a 1980s Colt Agent, which instantly became my favorite pocket carry gun, even with Pachmayr Compac grips. It splits the difference between J and K frame while giving 6 rds and has a very comfortable grip. If the recoil became a problem with it I think id try a steel frame Colt D frame, namely a Detective Special. I think the K is a bit more than I want to pocket carry, YMMV of course.

Edit: you might give some different grips a try on your current gun. They may not be optimal for carry ease, but may get you able to shoot it again without the pain. I never considered the Pachmayrs on a J, but they definitely make it easier to shoot. Ive been pleasantly surprised on how well the Colt with Pachmarys has worked out for pocket carry, as its the best grip ive found for it to shoot. Im able to do it with no holster or a milk jug holster with minimal low end protrusion so it sits low enough it doesnt show. The speedloader in the pocket keeps it in place for the most part.

Theres also older Colt Detective Specials and Police Positives (same frame with longer barrel, like 3"+) in 32 cal for somewhat reasonable prices. Colt called the 32 S&W long 32 Colt NP or New Police. One such gun with finish challenges would probably be the donor gun for my wanna-be Diamondback 32 project. In the Colt line, a Cobra or Agent is the alloy frame version in the older small D frames

Yes, Im somewhat new gun challenged. If anything newish strikes an interest, I tend to look for older versions of the same type or concept, and they are often less money.

When my injury happened, I felt like I aged about 15 years in a short time. Its been a bit over 10 years now. I had thought about geezer guns before, but also didnt expect to actually need them so soon.

One of my Js came with a really long Pachmayr Gripper on it, but it was narrow, and did I mention that it was LONG? A model 60 Ladysmith, in fact. I put Compacs on it, and it is much improved over any other J I have used for shooting comfortably and with control all day. I do have larger than average hands, so others may not like it as much this way.

I normally carry that gun, when I carry it, on a belt. I do not recall carrying it in a pocket, but it would need a hammer spur bob before I would try it.

[Malamute]

One of my Js came with a really long Pachmayr Gripper on it, but it was narrow, and did I mention that it was LONG? A model 60 Ladysmith, in fact. I put Compacs on it, and it is much improved over any other J I have used for shooting comfortably and with control all day. I do have larger than average hands, so others may not like it as much this way.

I normally carry that gun, when I carry it, on a belt. I do not recall carrying it in a pocket, but it would need a hammer spur bob before I would try it.


I have a spare hammer for the Agent I considered bobbing, but I got in the habit of putting my thumb against the back of the spur when drawing it and it hasnt been a problem.

If Pachmayr grips are too grippy in pocket material, some seem more grippy or clingy than others, try treating them with armor all. It seems to reduce the skunky rubber smell some also.

[Borderland]

For what it's worth, I have a model 36 that I hardly ever shot. I did carry it some but when I shot it with published 38 spl loads I wasn't impressed with how well I could shoot it. Consequently, I went back to my 9mm Sig P-239.

Recently I got curious about 38 SC. I loaded some up in 3 different flavors but I went off the res with a few loads not having any load data for the powder I was using. Snappy. I settled on a load that seemed to be a perfect fit for my 36. I really like the fact that the recoil is tame and the accuracy is pretty damn good. Just my observations here, but 38 spl loads are not conducive to good accuracy in J frame snubbies, especially for people that voted for Nixon. That's where 38 Short Colt shines in my opinion.

I've also owned and carried a .380. You won't get any blowback from me if you like the cartridge for SD.

I'll just turn this over to the experts now. LR has probably done some testing. I haven't.

[CCT125US]

Regarding grips and recoil: Shot a Smith 19 Performance Center Carry Comp (34.5oz) the other day with Norma 158gr. It was brutal with its wood grips and my standard revolver hold (courtesy of J. Miculek). 6 rounds was truly all I cared to fire. Contrasted with my J frame (14.6oz) and CTC LG-405, which is not at all unpleasant with the same load. Didn't realize how much recoil the 405s soaked up.

I'd venture that your J, with LG-405s, and .38 Short Colt would be very pleasant.

Just don't get the idea to go with a 43c.

[Shawn Dodson]

Federal .32 H&R Magnum 85gr JHP is a pleasure to shoot in an LCR (five shot chronographed velocity from an LCR: 1229 fps).

Fiocchi .32 Long 100gr lead wadcutter was like shooting a BB gun (five shot chronographed velocity from an LCR: 599 fps)

A .38 Special 148gr wadcutter has a sectional density of 0.166, and when propelled at 600 fps will penetrate about 18-inches (per Duncan MacPherson's book - Bullet Penetration: Modeling the Dynamics and the Incapacitation Resulting from Wound Trauma, Figure 10-2, Cylinder Bullet Penetration Depth, Curve B, p.247).

The Fiocchi .32 Long 100gr wadcutter has a sectional density of 0.147. Unfortunately MacPherson's Table 10-1 (p.244) doesn't include this bullet caliber or weight, but if one uses "Curve C" for a 9mm 130gr cylinder (wadcutter) bullet (which has an identical sectional density of 0.147), then Table 10-1 (p.244), and "Curve C" in Figure 10-2, shows a penetration depth of 15-16 inches for the Fiocchi .32 Long wadcutter at 600 fps.

[the Schwartz]

Just a data point, but I personally found 130 FMJ to be nearly as obnoxious as +P in my Airweight.

I would second trying some of Lost River's .38 short loads.

https://www.lostriverammocompany.com/product/38-Short-Colt-125-Grn-Poly-Coat-TC-Flat-Point-50-RND

I'll bet.

Using the SAAMI formula for recoil velocity, even at 800 fps, firing a 130-grain FMJ from an Airweight 642 gives a recoil velocity of 18 fps matching that of a full-power .44 Magnum 240-grain JHP fired from a Ruger Super Blackhawk. Many people—including me—find a recoil velocity of more than 15 fps to pretty uncomfortable, so that load cannot be a lot of fun to shoot.

[Malamute]

I'll bet.

Using the SAAMI formula for recoil velocity, even at 800 fps, firing a 130-grain FMJ from an Airweight 642 gives a recoil velocity of 18 fps matching that of a full-power .44 Magnum 240-grain JHP fired from a Ruger Super Blackhawk. Many people—including me—find a recoil velocity of more than 15 fps to pretty uncomfortable, so that load cannot be a lot of fun to shoot.


Interesting. I just ran the numbers on a 4" model 19 Smith, 158 gr @1300 fps, it showed 9.3 ft lbs recoil energy and 16 f/s recoil velocity.

[Dov]

For what it's worth, I have a model 36 that I hardly ever shot. I did carry it some but when I shot it with published 38 spl loads I wasn't impressed with how well I could shoot it. Consequently, I went back to my 9mm Sig P-239.

Recently I got curious about 38 SC. I loaded some up in 3 different flavors but I went off the res with a few loads not having any load data for the powder I was using. Snappy. I settled on a load that seemed to be a perfect fit for my 36. I really like the fact that the recoil is tame and the accuracy is pretty damn good. Just my observations here, but 38 spl loads are not conducive to good accuracy in J frame snubbies, especially for people that voted for Nixon. That's where 38 Short Colt shines in my opinion.

I've also owned and carried a .380. You won't get any blowback from me if you like the cartridge for SD.

I'll just turn this over to the experts now. LR has probably done some testing. I haven't.

J frames are hard to shoot well IMHO, at least in 38 and above.

I shot and dry fired my J frame a lot, for a J frame anyway, when it was my primary CCW. Certainly had over a thousand round through it, and I was dryfiring like 3+ days a week with it, when I got my first Glock 26.

I got the G26 because both Mas and Chuck Taylor liked it for CCW/BUG use and they didn't agree on a lot, so figured if they agreed it probably was a solid choice.

First time I shot the G26 I was amazed at how much easier it was to shoot than the J frame, with twice the ammo and IDK 10 times faster reloads (well that's probably exaggeration but it feels like it).

First time I shot it I was as least as good with it as the J frame I had put a lot of effort into to, and though G26 requires more effort for grip than a G19/17 etc compared to grip for J frame its easy IMHO.

So I started carrying the G26 in strong hand front pocket as primary and the J frame in weak hand front pocket as BUG, but eventually switched to pair of G26's in pockets.

Even back then before all my current health issues I couldn't carry IWB without debilitating pain, so pocket carry was my main CCW method.

When the 12 round mags came out for the G26 that made them even easier to shoot for me, for me a G26 with 12 round mag fits hand better than G19, and when I am wearing Duluth Fire Hose Pants I can pocket carry a pair of G26's with the 12 round mags, most other pants I have to drop down to the flush 10 round mag and with some pants I have to drop down to the J frame.

But I'm probably going to need to wear cloths more in line with J frame carry than G26 for work in next year or so, so I am trying to resolve issue of 38 recoil in Airweight J frame/LCR class pocket gun.

[Dov]

I'll bet.

Using the SAAMI formula for recoil velocity, even at 800 fps, firing a 130-grain FMJ from an Airweight 642 gives a recoil velocity of 18 fps matching that of a full-power .44 Magnum 240-grain JHP fired from a Ruger Super Blackhawk. Many people—including me—find a recoil velocity of more than 15 fps to pretty uncomfortable, so that load cannot be a lot of fun to shoot.

Huh, I thought the 130 FMJ only did like 600-700 fps from a J frame, the 38 Short Colts might actually be workable then.

Before all my health issues it was a comfortable practice load compared to the Rem 38+P 158 LHP, +P 125 JHP, and +P 135 GDHP I carried in it.

I'll have to get some and see, I could still shoot a gunfull of standard wadcutters every 3-6 months, I still have the grip strength to shoot +P for gunfull or two in it just messes up my hand for days so I might actually be able to practice monthly with the Short Colts and done at least twice a year with standard 38 Wadcutters.

[Dov]

And I want to say thanks to everyone being so supportive regarding my pain/health issues, bit belated in saying it. Sorry about that, just crazy at work and though work has been going far better than I was expecting I'm still getting worn out from it.

[the Schwartz]

Interesting. I just ran the numbers on a 4" model 19 Smith, 158 gr @1300 fps, it showed 9.3 ft lbs recoil energy and 16 f/s recoil velocity.

Makes sense to me. I got nearly the same numbers (made a broad assumption on propellant mass) you did. Probably not a lot of fun to shoot that load either. ;)

[Malamute]

The info on Lost Rivers page on his 38 Short Colt loads indicates they are 125 gr @ 850 fps in a 4" gun. They show out of stock at the moment. You might contact him and see if he will load some at the original velocity of 125 gr @ 725 fps.

The brass is in stock at Starline right at the moment.

[Malamute]

Weird double... super slow loading.....

[Malamute]

Makes sense to me. I got nearly the same numbers (made a broad assumption on propellant mass) you did. Probably not a lot of fun to shoot that load either. ;)

Its brisk, but I tend not to shoot many at a time. the muzzle blast is a bit unpleasant. I do have quite a lot of confidence it it, however. The full K target grips help with relative comfort, as does the round butt K Pachmayr compacs I had on the 2 1/2" 19 long ago.

I made a guess at 13 grs propellant, thats close to some 2400 loads. I havent loaded H-110 in 357 so far, I dont know what loads run with it, but I doubt the end result will change very much based only on small variations in charge.

[Jamie]

The info on Lost Rivers page on his 38 Short Colt loads indicates they are 125 gr @ 850 fps in a 4" gun. They show out of stock at the moment. You might contact him and see if he will load some at the original velocity of 125 gr @ 725 fps.

The brass is in stock at Starline right at the moment.

Thanks for this info.

I have some of these Lost River .38 SC loads. I'll need to check my notes for chrono data. They are a bit more "snappy" in my LCR than my Model 10's or 15 (of course) but they're more accurate than I am. I liked them so much I've gathered the components (Starline brass and iirc MBC 125 gr coated bullets) with the intent of loading the rounds in the 700-725 fps range. It'll just be less wear on my old bones over time and it's a consideration as I bump up against 70.
My cyberskills are weak but I know I've read quite a bit about this load concept here on P-F with Lost River and others discussing it's development and concept. LR does remarkable work!

Dov,
I am so sorry to read of your troubles but glad to read of your efforts, diligence, and thought processes and think many of us can benefit from the info you share. Hang in there and keep "Doing the work" :)

My Bride of many years, prior to her passing, had developed vestibular dysfunctions and some pretty challenging neuropathy in her upper and lower extremities. She had a difficult time operating her J-frame (I gave her as a sensible gift when we were dating over 35 years ago). Trigger pull was difficult for her and recoil even with traditional 148 gr WC (2.7 Bullseye) was painful for her.
She choose a S&W .380 EZ Shield after trying a multitude of handguns.
Since I handload I developed a 90 gr load for her with the lowest velocity I could that would reliably give consistent functioning in her pistol along with good accuracy at 7-10 yards. Her vision precluded any further shooting distance (a realistic and reasonable concern in her particular situation). She didn't carry, just needed something she could handle in our home.
I have the load and chrono data in my basement "man-cave" but don't want to bog down the thread.

Thanks to all for sharing the great suggestions and info.

[jandbj]

Thanks for this info.

I have some of these Lost River .38 SC loads. I'll need to check my notes for chrono data. They are a bit more "snappy" in my LCR than my Model 10's or 15 (of course) but they're more accurate than I am. I liked them so much I've gathered the components (Starline brass and iirc MBC 125 gr coated bullets) with the intent of loading the rounds in the 700-725 fps range. It'll just be less wear on my old bones over time and it's a consideration as I bump up against 70.
My cyberskills are weak but I know I've read quite a bit about this load concept here on P-F with Lost River and others discussing it's development and concept. LR does remarkable work!

Dov,
I am so sorry to read of your troubles but glad to read of your efforts, diligence, and thought processes and think many of us can benefit from the info you share. Hang in there and keep "Doing the work" :)

My Bride of many years, prior to her passing, had developed vestibular dysfunctions and some pretty challenging neuropathy in her upper and lower extremities. She had a difficult time operating her J-frame (I gave her as a sensible gift when we were dating over 35 years ago). Trigger pull was difficult for her and recoil even with traditional 148 gr WC (2.7 Bullseye) was painful for her.
She choose a S&W .380 EZ Shield after trying a multitude of handguns.
Since I handload I developed a 90 gr load for her with the lowest velocity I could that would reliably give consistent functioning in her pistol along with good accuracy at 7-10 yards. Her vision precluded any further shooting distance (a realistic and reasonable concern in her particular situation). She didn't carry, just needed something she could handle in our home.
I have the load and chrono data in my basement "man-cave" but don't want to bog down the thread.

Thanks to all for sharing the great suggestions and info.

Betting you could mimic just about any .380 load in 38SC brass. I also bought ammo from Lost River, and dies to reload for my own supply of now once fired 38SC brass.

[Chuck Whitlock]

I'll bet.

Using the SAAMI formula for recoil velocity, even at 800 fps, firing a 130-grain FMJ from an Airweight 642 gives a recoil velocity of 18 fps matching that of a full-power .44 Magnum 240-grain JHP fired from a Ruger Super Blackhawk. Many people—including me—find a recoil velocity of more than 15 fps to pretty uncomfortable, so that load cannot be a lot of fun to shoot.

Thanks for that. Glad that it's not just me being a wimp.

[the Schwartz]

Thanks for that. Glad that it's not just me being a wimp.

If that was the case, you wouldn't be the only one afflicted with ''girly wrists'' and you'd be in good company. ;)

As I age, I see the folly in being willing to accept/endure large doses of recoil simply for the sake of doing so.

[Chuck Whitlock]

As I age, I see the folly in being willing to accept/endure large doses of recoil simply for the sake of doing so.

I am at an age where I can now appreciate that I wasn't able to afford to abuse myself is such a fashion. Because I totally would have abused myself is such a fashion!!

[Dov]

Thread related to general geezer gun element of this one adding sights to LCR https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?58233-LCR22-amp-LCR38-custom-sights

[Velo Dog]

A timely video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xRlGvFJJqo

[Lost River]

The info on Lost Rivers page on his 38 Short Colt loads indicates they are 125 gr @ 850 fps in a 4" gun. They show out of stock at the moment. You might contact him and see if he will load some at the original velocity of 125 gr @ 725 fps.

The brass is in stock at Starline right at the moment.

I am waiting on components to arrive and I will producing more .38 Short Colt.

The little 125 grain Poly-Coat .38 Short Colts have proven to be pretty darn popular and while most of the general shooting population may not have heard of it, it appears those that buy one or two boxes keep coming back for more and more. Repeat sales are a pretty good indicator that people seem to really like the little things.:cool:

[Malamute]

I am waiting on components to arrive and I will producing more .38 Short Colt.

The little 125 grain Poly-Coat .38 Short Colts have proven to be pretty darn popular and while most of the general shooting population may not have heard of it, it appears those that buy one or two boxes keep coming back for more and more. Repeat sales are a pretty good indicator that people seem to really like the little things.:cool:

Yes, I think for most of us they are a real treat to shoot in most guns.

Someone upthread mentioned they had shot some 130 gr 800-something fps loads in an airweight and it was uncomfortable. I dont know if 725 fps loads would make much difference in perceived recoil. For someone with particularly sensitive hands it may. As before, Id prefer using 38 SC loads to a 22 LR pistol for defense if any 38 spl load that was heavier loaded, even wadcutters, was difficult to shoot. Its also certainly cheaper to buy ammo for an existing gun than buying a new gun not to mention starting all over with ammo like a 32.

Ive only shot a few 38 SC, but plan to load up more when I can.

[Lost River]

double post...

[Dov]

I am waiting on components to arrive and I will producing more .38 Short Colt.

The little 125 grain Poly-Coat .38 Short Colts have proven to be pretty darn popular and while most of the general shooting population may not have heard of it, it appears those that buy one or two boxes keep coming back for more and more. Repeat sales are a pretty good indicator that people seem to really like the little things.:cool:

If the MV of the load is listed on your site I'm not seeing it.

Edited to add: I see it is on the box in the image. Is it anywhere else and I'm just not seeing it?

Edited again, I see it listed in the text for 4" gun, I'm just blind today

[Dov]

An interesting thread. I read a piece about how the computer media industries are not focusing as much as they should on older folks. At the Quest lab yesterday for a vampire draw, I saw older people totally befuddled by the check in kisok. How to use the menus, where to scan their insurance and licenses - horror show. One poor guy had to turn to the waiting room and say: Can someone help me?

I would have jumped up, but beaten to it by a nice younger woman. Since I have a good tech background, not a problem for me - YET!

I think it is an avenue for the gun world to explore. Guns for the older folks - like 32 revolvers with decent triggers, things like the easy rack guns, tip ups in 380 from Beretta, SW, Ruger. One might even argue for a pickle ball analog for competition. Current ones stress, heavy guns, running like a track meet to chase milliseconds. At our matches, we have solid group of super seniors who just want trigger time and hits - not a race where you stand at start like an Olympic sprinter. Holsters for the grumpy old bodies of all genders (not going there).

Not having more lesser caliber divisions - 22 LR, 32 ACP, etc - suggesting that brings on fits in some games!!! OMG!!!I don't see why running Glock 44s or the equivalent 'tactical' guns isn't allowed. Steel does it. We ran 22 LR carbines as a division in our carbine matches.

Fellow nerd here, but my aging eyes have made me painfully aware of how crummy most if not all OS are at giving options for usable font sizes for OS menus etc short of lowering resolution of screen, which I don't like doing. Annoying that browsers will let me increase text size so its not difficult to read but leave screen at high resolution but menus in MacOS or Windows or Chrome etc don't.

[camsdaddy]

I am hoping that by shooting mild wadcutters in my 60 will prevent damage that may not show up later in life.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Fellow nerd here, but my aging eyes have made me painfully aware of how crummy most if not all OS are at giving options for usable font sizes for OS menus etc short of lowering resolution of screen, which I don't like doing. Annoying that browsers will let me increase text size so its not difficult to read but leave screen at high resolution but menus in MacOS or Windows or Chrome etc don't.

Thread drift, excuse me. I had a work Mac Laptop that had become obsolete but still useful. They offered it to me for $75 and I said $25. No deal. So I turned it back in but switched the OS language to Norwegian and set the font size to so big that when you booted it up, all you saw was a Giant Letter D. Childish, I'm sure it was recycled.

I alternate in pocket carry between a 432 and G42. So far I can shoot 9mm in Glocks just fine. Even 100 45 ACPs once in awhile doesn't seem to impact my hands and arms yet. I do hand squeezy exercises and some light dumbbells.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Thread drift, excuse me. I had a work Mac Laptop that had become obsolete but still useful. They offered it to me for $75 and I said $25. No deal. So I turned it back in but switched the OS language to Norwegian and set the font size to so big that when you booted it up, all you saw was a Giant Letter D. Childish, I'm sure it was recycled.

That's my king of petty.

[Arty]

I recommend trying the Hornady Critical Defense standard pressure loads. The 90 gr 38 load duplicates 380 ballistics, but the 110 gr standard pressure load has low recoil and may hit to point of aim for you. I highly recommend the 110 gr standard pressure Hornady Critical Defense round. If available, also check out alternative grips that may reduce felt recoil. The Pachmayr Diamond Pro is on the large side, but is excellent at recoil reduction. I don’t know if there is one for a J frame, but you need grips that fit your hand size and have effective recoil control.
Both of the 38 loads that I mentioned have similar, low levels of recoil and are more pleasant to shoot than even the 130 gr ball load or 148 gr wadcutters.

[Outpost75]

Some tested .32 S&W Long "+P" data for use in S&W Models 30 and 31, post-1950 Colt steel D-frame and Ruger LCR and SP101 revolvers

Hornady 100 XTP .312" R-P case, CCI500, 8.5 grains IMR4227, OAL 1.17" - 897 fps @ 20,200 psi

Hornady 85 XTP .312" R-P case, CCI500, 3 grains Alliant Bullseye, OAL 1.175" - 890 fps @ 16,800 psi

[Jamie]

Some tested .32 S&W Long "+P" data for use in S&W Models 30 and 31, post-1950 Colt steel D-frame and Ruger LCR and SP101 revolvers

Hornady 100 XTP .312" R-P case, CCI500, 8.5 grains IMR4227, OAL 1.17" - 897 fps @ 20,200 psi

Hornady 85 XTP .312" R-P case, CCI500, 3 grains Alliant Bullseye, OAL 1.175" - 890 fps @ 16,800 psi

Thank you Sir.

OK, stupid question time.
I have a couple of pounds of H110 and 2400. Would either of these powders serve for the 100 gr XTP to approach that velocity in either .32 S&W Long or .32 H&R mag safely?

I've look at the ADI velocity equivalency chart and looked/searched on CB...but don't want to damage me nor my 327 LCR.

I have Bullseye and 85 gr XTPs so I have that covered.

TIA

[Outpost75]

Thank you Sir.

OK, stupid question time.
I have a couple of pounds of H110 and 2400. Would either of these powders serve for the 100 gr XTP to approach that velocity in either .32 S&W Long or .32 H&R mag safely?

I've look at the ADI velocity equivalency chart and looked/searched on CB...but don't want to damage me nor my 327 LCR.

I have Bullseye and 85 gr XTPs so I have that covered.

TIA

Did not test H110.

Alliant #2400 did not produce acceptable ballistic uniformity with large ES and SDs, loose groups and vertical stringing.

Overall the 3 grain Bullseye load with the 85 XTP is most satisfactory. Moderate pressure. Both clean burning and accurate.

[Totem Polar]

Thread drift, excuse me. I had a work Mac Laptop that had become obsolete but still useful. They offered it to me for $75 and I said $25. No deal. So I turned it back in but switched the OS language to Norwegian and set the font size to so big that when you booted it up, all you saw was a Giant Letter D. Childish, I'm sure it was recycled.


Former Mac power user here (now obsolete, since I no longer do graphics and mix sound/video). At the height of my abilities, I used to take considerable glee from going into the local Apple store, and finding the screensaver and voice prompts on display models. I’d change a few display computers to say “Holy shit, you took too long. I’m going to hit the rack.” Upon switching to the screen saver. That *never* got old.

:D

[Jamie]

Did not test H110.

Alliant #2400 did not produce acceptable ballistic uniformity with large ES and SDs, loose groups and vertical stringing.

Overall the 3 grain Bullseye load with the 85 XTP is most satisfactory. Moderate pressure. Both clean burning and accurate.

Thank you Outpost.

Bullseye is my favorite powder for .38 spl and .32 S&W so I'll stay in that lane.

Much obliged.

[jandbj]

Some tested .32 S&W Long "+P" data for use in S&W Models 30 and 31, post-1950 Colt steel D-frame and Ruger LCR and SP101 revolvers

Hornady 100 XTP .312" R-P case, CCI500, 8.5 grains IMR4227, OAL 1.17" - 897 fps @ 20,200 psi

Hornady 85 XTP .312" R-P case, CCI500, 3 grains Alliant Bullseye, OAL 1.175" - 890 fps @ 16,800 psi

Thank you! I very much appreciate the depth of experienced industry folks we have that are will to share their expertise.

[Hambo]

Thank you Sir.

OK, stupid question time.
I have a couple of pounds of H110 and 2400. Would either of these powders serve for the 100 gr XTP to approach that velocity in either .32 S&W Long or .32 H&R mag safely?

I've look at the ADI velocity equivalency chart and looked/searched on CB...but don't want to damage me nor my 327 LCR.

I have Bullseye and 85 gr XTPs so I have that covered.

TIA

There is data for H110 in .327, but not the shorter .32s. I'm surprised by that for a number of reasons. The smallest case I use it in is .357 Mag.

[Jamie]

There is data for H110 in .327, but not the shorter .32s. I'm surprised by that for a number of reasons. The smallest case I use it in is .357 Mag.

Same here on both accounts Hambo.

I did find some data on CastBoolits for H&R Mag, but nothing pressure tested iirc.

I did shoot some 100gr DEWC in .32 H&R nag yesterday loaded with 3 gr Bullseye. They are accurate (for me) at 3 inches/ 7 yards from my LCR. I need to chrono them but since I murdered my chrono a couple of months ago it'll need to wait a bit.

My favorite .32 S&W 100 gr DEWC loads so far are W231 2.4 gr with SA primers. They give me 764 fps out of my LCR. But I like the Bullseye loads quite a bit as well. Decisions, decisions.

I have a good amount of W231 so I may well toy with that in .32 H&R mag as I've seen mentioned in one of these threads. (Can't keep up with everything LOL).

I might try working up some .32 H&R mag loads with some H110 and see what shakes. Cautious work.

[Hambo]

Same here on both accounts Hambo.

I did find some data on CastBoolits for H&R Mag, but nothing pressure tested iirc.

I did shoot some 100gr DEWC in .32 H&R nag yesterday loaded with 3 gr Bullseye. They are accurate (for me) at 3 inches/ 7 yards from my LCR. I need to chrono them but since I murdered my chrono a couple of months ago it'll need to wait a bit.

My favorite .32 S&W 100 gr DEWC loads so far are W231 2.4 gr with SA primers. They give me 764 fps out of my LCR. But I like the Bullseye loads quite a bit as well. Decisions, decisions.

I have a good amount of W231 so I may well toy with that in .32 H&R mag as I've seen mentioned in one of these threads. (Can't keep up with everything LOL).

I might try working up some .32 H&R mag loads with some H110 and see what shakes. Cautious work.

I checked Lyman 50th Ed and they list H110 for .327 Mag with a 100gr JHP. In theory, I get that it will work, but it's best in larger charges and has a narrow min-max. I don't venture out where there is no data. I shoot a lot of wildcats, but I always start with some info, even if it's the developer's original notes.

[Jamie]

Good point.
I might best stick published data.

From my experience with H110 and. 357, H110 likes the upper limits of it's narrow window.
Thank you for the reminder.