Kimber pro carry II

[Badduck]

Looking at a Kimber pro carry II does anyone own one that can give me some inside on buying one good,bad just looking for input from someone who owned one before buying.

[Evil_Ed]

I'm sure if you went to any 1911-centric forum and ask you'd get similar answers...but:

Kimber opine-ers generally fall into 4 groups -
1) Those who've never owned one but have read all the horror stories; they will tell you to avoid the brand, but don't really have any real world experience behind that recommendation (smart people, but type #2 get all angry about it because they haven't yet turned into type #3)
2) Those who own one but don't shoot it enough to ever actually consider it "used"; they will tell you they're great guns that are flawless and have great slide to frame fit and they don't wobble and because of that they're awesome. I would lump people who shoot no more than a 50 round box every 2 months into this category
3) Those who've owned one, tried to use them in a class or other actual shooting experience and sold it, and see them for the giant piles of shit that they are (I fall into this category)
4) Those who've owned older ones, pre-Cohen and pre-Series II, and think that experience somehow translates into post-2003 or so Kimbers (usually indistinguishable from type #2 without questioning them)

And I guess a subgroup of 3) - those who owned one, decided they liked it in spite of all the problems, and replaced literally every single part with a better one; keeping only the frame, slide and barrel. Sometimes even the sights were replaced. Usually these guns have the Series II safety parts entirely removed. They'd tell you they can be ok, if you replace everything like they did.

The reason the phrase "bad MIM" is even the American gun-owning consciousness is because of Kimber and their attempts to shortcut making quality parts for cheap, while keeping a higher price point. A lot of defective and fragile parts, a problem that has generally persisted to this day on Kimbers. They may be pretty, but they're made with poor parts in general. Other makers (S&W, Colt, Springfield, etc) also used MIM in their guns (IIRC Smith even pre-dated Kimber with it), and their failure rates were no where near Kimbers. It's not a MIM problem; it's a Kimber problem. Weirdly while this problem still persists at Kimber, it also spread to Sig after Cohen started running things there...I'm sure someone could draw a causation and/or correlation chart there..

The Swartz safety a lot of them have (IIRC if it says "Series II" or the model ends with II it's got a Swartz Safety) is poorly implemented at best, and can be prone to not allowing the gun to go off when you need it to; see Ned Christansen's youtube videos on this issue, at the range (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvptEIw-6QQ) and explained in the shop (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax8yzAypUtU).

They are pretty guns, but they come with so much baggage and there's so many better constructed guns with better parts out there for cheaper that there's no way anyone who knows anything about 1911s could ever recommend one to your average 1911 buyer these days.

Also - IIRC the Kimber "carry" size is a 4" gun, which is pretty much just the wrong size for anything except maybe 9mm; the pioneered and "better" short 45acp size gun is 4 1/4". I don't know why Kimber decided to go against the decades of wisdom that pointed at the most reliable short envelope for 45acp is 4 1/4" barrels...but, it means things like you're stuck buying special recoil springs and other recoil system and slide parts, since normal Commander-sized bits won't fit.

At least, this is all simply in my opinion. I could be wrong.

Edited - Having said all that, there ARE a group of people who fell through the cracks; they have relatively recent modern Kimbers and have shot them a lot, and didn't have a problem. I don't know if that's a "really didn't have a problem" didn't have a problem, or "Well, I had to replace the extractor, and firing pin stop, and slide stop, and thumb safety, and hammer, and grip safety...but I could take care of all that at home, it really wasn't a problem when they broke..." didn't have a problem, though.

[PNWTO]

I had a Kimber Eclipse Pro, built in 2010, for a few years. It was amazingly accurate and it would feed JHP from WC mags. Those are the only good things.

It would randomly rust, after two years the interior of the frame had noticeable pitting and the top of the barrel had a “coffee with cream” patina.

I was always chasing some malfunction. It was probably/barely reliable enough for carry but couldn’t take a longer range session.

By the end, I had enough WC parts and time into it that stepping into the higher Springfield price tiers, or Dan Wesson, or a used WC, would have saved me many headaches.

There seems to be a lot of good feedback about the Ruger 1911s, if you want a similar MSRP bracket.

There’s also a great variety of 1911 threads here that lay out the necessity for “tinkering”.

[Noidslo]

I bought it used from a friend after not having a pistol for probably 20+ years. It was manufactured in the early 2000's I think. It had a great trigger, loved that it was a "lightweight" 1911 and just looked and carried cool. Shot great as long as I fed it ball ammo. The only hollow points that it would work reliably with were 220 grain +P critical defense rounds. Not the most fun to shoot through an alloy frame pistol. Local pistol smith couldn't make it better.

My Glock 19 has proven (for me) to be a better Pro Carry II

[Robinson]

I don't care much for the series II Kimbers because of the firing pin safety system, but I've owned Kimber Lightweight 5" models without the firing pin safety that worked just fine. I had copies in both 45 and 9mm. Pretty basic no frills guns. I shot thousands of rounds through the 9mm gun without a single failure. The 45 saw several hundred rounds with no issues. Maybe I was just lucky.

Sorry I can't comment on the Pro Carry II specifically, other than it does have the firing pin safety.

[Elwin]

I'm in that last category Ed mentions. I have two Series II guns that work (one actually works well enough it's slide is off to get milled for a dot), but I did a lot to them. They both have extractor work, tuning in the case of one and replacing the external extractor's spring in the case of the other. Both needed the grip safety and Swartz system tuned. Both have GI recoil parts installed. I think the thumb safeties are kindof shitty and only one still has its originals. They also each have a bunch of other other miscellaneous parts replacements that are more about personal preferences. Personal preferences like having a mainspring housing made out of metal instead of plastic.

I've had these for a while and they have served me very well once I addressed some issues. One actually has a very high round count without any parts breakages aside from a loosened plunger tube. That said, if I were buying a 1911 today, it wouldn't be a Kimber. Depending on price range, it would likely be Ruger, Colt, Springfield, or Dan Wesson, in order of "cheaper" to "more preferred."

[rdtompki]

I have two HD Pro Carry II converted from 38 Super to 9mm. As I recall I had the ignition parts replaced at the same time. I'm shooting one equipped with a 507Comp in steel challenge and while not high round count it has been reliable. I like the balance of the Kimber over a 5" gun, but that's just me. It's interesting that two guns, convert by two different gunsmiths have completely different recoil springs, but that's not a reflection on a 9mm of the stock variety.

[Navin Johnson]

No private gun shops in my area will carry Kimber’s

Same with Taurus’

[rathos]

Most shops won't carry Kimber because they require you to buy a certain lot of guns, not just the ones you want. Though I am not sure that Kimber is the best value. Their safety system leaves a lot to be desired and is 99% of the time not fit right. Even if it is, its pretty easy to make a Schwartz safety malfunction and give you a click when you want a bang. Lots of other good 1911s in the same price range. I would recommend something in a series 70.


No private gun shops in my area will carry Kimber’s

Same with Taurus’

[gringop]

I ran Kimbers for my first 5 years of carrying concealed and shooting IDPA. A Clackamas era Classic full sized, a Compact Stainless and a ProCarry 2 HD (stainless frame). Same song as previous posters, replaced internal parts with Wilson Combat as they broke. The Classic ran great but rusted at the blink of an eye, I ended up getting it Electroless-Nickle plated by a local smith.

If you do end up getting a non full sized Kimber, be sure that you replace the recoil spring at the recommended interval (700 rounds). I ended up cracking the slide on the Compact Stainless due to not replacing springs. The local smith had a guy that thought he could weld it up, didn't work. Didn't cost me anything.

I damn sure replaced the springs regularly on the ProCarry.

I ended up moving to 9mm Glock poodle shooters and never looked back.

With Kimber, change your parts, change your springs, change your world. (to Glock)

Gringop

108971

[Navin Johnson]

Most shops won't carry Kimber because they require you to buy a certain lot of guns, not just the ones you want. Though I am not sure that Kimber is the best value. Their safety system leaves a lot to be desired and is 99% of the time not fit right. Even if it is, its pretty easy to make a Schwartz safety malfunction and give you a click when you want a bang. Lots of other good 1911s in the same price range. I would recommend something in a series 70.

I was told it was because of all the problems not because of required purchases

[LJP]

There is much wisdom in the first reply… I fall into the third group. I have a Kimber Tactical Pro II that I took to a Gunsite 250 in 2004. Mine has been okay, but my biggest complaint is the aforementioned Schwartz firing pin safety. Occasionally it will impede the slide’s return to battery. The gun has sat in my safe for nearly two decades now, but I’m unlikely to sell it since I earned my “silver chicken” with it. I doubt I’ll ever buy another, and certainly not a Series II.