2024 Toyota Land Cruiser [Archive]

TGS

08-01-2023, 10:34 PM

Not sure how I feel about a hybrid motor but the times they are a changing and not much I can do about it.

I'm not sure how I feel about that hybrid motor for the stated mileage.

Toyota Venza? Sure, I'll take 37+ mpg in a midsize SUV. This hybrid LC mileage isn't really compelling, though, especially since it's supposed to be smaller and closer in size to a Venza than not. Given it's a 5 seat just like the Venza, I'm guessing the rear seats arent that much roomier, and most of the extra space is probably in the cargo area. The 5" extra width over the Venza will be unlikely to make the seats any more comfortable unless someone is morbidly obese or routinely uses the rear bench middle seat for adults, which is very unlikely.

Doesn't seem like a good trade to me. I'm sure they'll sell boatloads of them.

Totem Polar

08-01-2023, 10:59 PM

I was hoping for one of these:

107943

I think these are the coolest Toyotas ever made.

My riding buddy used to own this one:

Spartan1980

08-01-2023, 11:29 PM

I kinda dig it. Some getting back to the LC’s roots. And even though I’m not keen at all on the hybrid, if anyone knows how to build one it’s Toyota.

I’ll definitely watch what they do for the future.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Clusterfrack

08-01-2023, 11:49 PM

I like it.

Darth_Uno

08-02-2023, 12:24 AM

Yes, my wife already sent this to me.

It’s not going to get me to Dollar General any better than our current 4Runner, but if I was looking to trade up this would be on the list.

0ddl0t

08-02-2023, 12:54 AM

I am disappointed. I didn't care for Toyota's tonka toy styling on the FJ cruiser and I still don't like it on the LC, especially when combined with so many Ford design elements.

I love hybrids, but Toyota's hybrid batteries can't handle being submerged in water and their battery lifespan plummets in extreme heat. So the new landcruiser really isn't the "go anywhere" rig of its predecessors...

ECVMatt

08-02-2023, 01:24 AM

I am liking it and am interested in the hybrid engine. I live in the west and we have lots of distance between stops. A good hybrid could extend the range and lower fuel costs.

I just bought my wife a Badlands Sasquatch Bronco and it is crazy fun and capable but guzzles the gas.

Definitely keeping an eye on this one.

Paul D

08-02-2023, 01:27 AM

When I think LC...this is it! It is indestructible. Pure romanticism. P.S. the dude sitting there replaced my spotting scope and tripod.

https://i.imgur.com/pHRJ2CI.jpg

littlejerry

08-02-2023, 06:05 AM

For anyone who doesn't like the hybrid, please direct your ire towards the EPA and updated CAFE standards.

MGW

08-02-2023, 06:23 AM

I’m not giving up my 4Runner to buy a hybrid. The LC’s new motor seems impressive enough with out adding batteries to the mix.

RoyGBiv

08-02-2023, 06:24 AM

Looks like a 4Runner's daddy.

GJM

08-02-2023, 06:51 AM

DamonL

08-02-2023, 07:27 AM

I like it. I am interested in seeing what the mileage will be with the hybrid.

GJM

08-02-2023, 07:48 AM

I like it. I am interested in seeing what the mileage will be with the hybrid.

We just sold our 2020 4Runner TRD Pro and it was a 15-18 mpg rig depending upon how you were driving. The six speed transmission was terrible on the highway around 80, as it was constantly hunting between gears.

Lex Luthier

08-02-2023, 07:50 AM

I have 5 trouble free years in a 17 year old v6/dual-motor hybrid all wheel drive Highlander. All I’ve ever had to do was basic maintenance. Mileage tends better on highway than the smaller hybrids; the electric motors work most at low speed and at cruise speeds, and provide a lot more torque when accelerating. I get 18 city/24-25 highway.

Other than the battery submersion issue mentioned above, I would heartily endorse this development.
(And frankly, if you’re in water deep enough to submerge the floor pan, you might be exceeding design specs.)

frozentundra

08-02-2023, 07:53 AM

I think a true off-road hybrid is a great option for people who actually get off the road and camp a lot. An AC inverter and the ability to run heat/ac over extended periods while the engine cycles on/off intelligently sounds quite useful to me.

Also, those electric motors could probably provide some uniquely controlled low end torque for crawling if they had dedicated modes for it.

I personally think a (short range) EV golf cart silent mode would be quite neat as well.

GJM

08-02-2023, 07:56 AM

Pretty unusual for a manufacturer to drop price on an established brand, like the LC, from $80-90k to $50-60k.

DamonL

08-02-2023, 08:12 AM

TGS

08-02-2023, 08:34 AM

The article said Toyota thinks the pricing is part of why they had poor sales and had to drop the Land Cruiser in the US market. I think in the US, Toyota is not a luxury brand like Lexus or Range Rover that would compete in that price range. They were still selling the Lexus version in the US, just not the Toyota branded version. So I agree with the approach they are taking if they want to sell in the US. I think in other countries, the Land Cruiser is looked at differently.

100%. Many of the places that you and I have worked in, driving an LC means you're either an oligarch or western diplomat.

Driving a Toyota Camry or Toyota Prado means you're a successful business person that isn't quite independently wealthy, but is getting close.

The default plebe mobile in those places usually being a Suzuki....

DamonL

08-02-2023, 08:49 AM

100%. Many of the places that you and I have worked in, driving an LC means you're either an oligarch or western diplomat.

The default plebe mobile in those places usually being a Suzuki....

I always sort of/kind of wanted a Land Cruiser, but always thought they were overpriced. The Nissan Patrol and Mitsubishi Montero are other popular SUVS overseas at one time. The overseas markets are definitely different.

TGS

08-02-2023, 08:57 AM

I always sort of/kind of wanted a Land Cruiser, but always thought they were overpriced. The Nissan Patrol and Mitsubishi Montero are other popular SUVS overseas at one time. The overseas markets are definitely different.

I was recently somewhere that I wanted to buy a Suzuki Jimny to drive for the trip just because I want one, and can't have one here :(

To be fair, it'd be a deathtrap in the US at our speeds, which is why we don't have them. But when you're in a developing nation with max speeds of 60km/h, average 25-40km/h, then the current generation becomes a really cool light SUV.

okie john

08-02-2023, 09:01 AM

I was hoping for one of these:

107943

I think these are the coolest Toyotas ever made.

Here's my entry for coolest Toyota ever made:

107951

Okie John

Navin Johnson

08-02-2023, 09:02 AM

Tokarev

08-02-2023, 09:02 AM

I like the idea. Rather than keep the LC as some super expensive status symbol Toyota has decided to try to sell some cars. Arguably this is probably what they should have done 15 years ago instead of making the FJ Cruiser.

https://youtu.be/PtWXawWxD2A

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

DamonL

08-02-2023, 09:04 AM

I was recently somewhere that I wanted to buy a Suzuki Jimny to drive for the trip just because I want one, and can't have one here :(

What no rental available? :)

Suvorov

08-02-2023, 09:12 AM

Seems odd that er-body is concerned about hybrid (very stable tech with Toyota and Honda). Yet no one seems worried that it is a turbo motor?

Now, I wouldn't dunk a hybrid but I wouldn't dunk any vehicle worth that kind of coin.

99 ish percent will never see the kind of off-roading that requires 4 low.

It's all about the "look" and the fantasy.

I'm glad there is another SUV that is not aimed at mini-van buyers.

I’m concerned about all these new motors coming out. That said, as mentioned elsewhere the manufacturers are responding to government mandates and there really is little those of us who don’t have annual tickets to Davos can do about it.

On the plus side, todays turbo engines are not the 1980s turbos. Toyota’s turbo motors sold in the rest of the world have a fantastic reputation for reliability and I’m hearing lots of happy stories from friends who own Ford Eco Boosts. Add to that the fact that Toyotas Hybrid tech is very mature at this point, and I’m hopeful this will be a good power train. The numbers certainly look good!

It will be interesting to see what the new 4Runner shapes out to be as this LC looks to me to be a competitor in the same market.

While I realize it may be a trend, I really dig the new opaque colors going on cars/trucks these days!

DamonL

08-02-2023, 09:22 AM

After watching the You Tube video, the Land Cruiser shape reminds me of the Chevy Tahoe, which is not a bad thing. I like the way it looks.

Suvorov

08-02-2023, 09:26 AM

After watching the You Tube video, the Land Cruiser shape reminds me of the Chevy Tahoe, which is not a bad thing. I like the way it looks.

#Me2. It has enough of the Bronco’s wild styling to be current with its competitors, and yet still a more classic and reserved edge.

RoyGBiv

08-02-2023, 09:35 AM

We just sold our 2020 4Runner TRD Pro and it was a 15-18 mpg rig depending upon how you were driving. The six speed transmission was terrible on the highway around 80, as it was constantly hunting between gears.

Damn! Hate to hear that. I loved my early 90's 4Runner and had a new one on my watch list for next cars.... Whatever I get needs to run mid-20's or better on the highway. Our aging 2009 CX9 gets about 18-19 highway... need to do better than that..

Daughter drives a Santa Fe (mid 20's highway) and loves it... the 2024 looks like quite an upgrade (like a completely new car with the old name)... Especially if you like the looks of a Land Rover...

https://www.hotcars.com/hyundai-santa-fe-to-shake-up-american-suvs/

https://carbuzz.com/cars/hyundai/santa-fe/2024

https://static1.hotcarsimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/1-8.jpg

Lost River

08-02-2023, 09:56 AM

I have always wanted to put together something like this:

https://i.imgur.com/CLyyKjvh.jpg

littlejerry

08-02-2023, 10:04 AM

Here is the table published in the final rule from USDOT.

At least Toyota uses port and direct injection. That mitigates a lot of issues the industry has seen in DI turbos over the last 10-20 years.

Trigger

08-02-2023, 11:09 AM

Here is the table published in the final rule from USDOT.

At least Toyota uses port and direct injection. That mitigates a lot of issues the industry has seen in DI turbos over the last 10-20 years.

I hate that chart. Made by bureaucrats (idiots) who have no clue about thermodynamics, efficiency or dynamics. Just pass a rule to defy reality.

DamonL

08-02-2023, 11:11 AM

I like that new Santa Fe. It's a poor man's Range Rover and probably more reliable.

I am ok with improving fuel economy, if there is reasonable ways to get there. I favor reliability over improved fuel economy with the engine needing rebuilds all the time. But I think turbos are mainstream now and they have been shown to be fine.

Trigger

08-02-2023, 11:19 AM

JMO, but I think the lines and body shape of the Land Cruiser remind me of a Nissan Xterra.

That said I like the truck. I have some reservations regarding a turbo 4 in that size/weight truck, but I do acknowledge Toyotas ability to engineer to power train for reliability.

I hope it drives well. The thing I miss when I drive my 4Runner is how it drives like a truck, with lots of body roll and slosh. For my needs, maybe I’m better off with an X5.

rob_s

08-02-2023, 11:20 AM

https://youtu.be/8uKtpITZHKI

Tokarev

08-02-2023, 12:06 PM

Being a Toyota product it will likely be sturdy and reliable vehicle and will be supported well by the automotive aftermarket.

Funny that Fiat sued Mahindra and forced them to change the Roxor over what? Concerns that Roxor would cut into Wrangler sales? Toyota and Ford seem to be doing a good job of that.

To me the new TLC doesn't look much at all like the 55/60/62. It looks more like the H3 Hummer.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

Suvorov

08-02-2023, 12:30 PM

I hate that chart. Made by bureaucrats (idiots) who have no clue about thermodynamics, efficiency or dynamics. Just pass a rule to defy reality.

The fact that most believe in Modern Monetary Theory and deny Natural Rights proves that they live in a fantasy universe.

The irony here is that despite this effort on the part of Toyota, this vehicle will not be legal for sale in Kalifornia in 2035 (unless a exception is made or the drive train becomes all electric).

Boxy

08-02-2023, 01:40 PM

Here's my entry for coolest Toyota ever made:

107951

Okie John

I had an 83 Model when I served in the Navy. Took it for duty in Newfoundland. With Warn 8000 winch it was unstoppable. Miss the in-line 6 cylinder. heavy sigh….

DamonL

08-02-2023, 01:48 PM

I am hoping the Land Cruiser does not feel under powered like the 4 Runner.

0ddl0t

08-02-2023, 01:58 PM

Here is the table published in the final rule from USDOT.

https://pistol-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107954&stc=1&d=1690988563

I hate that chart. Made by bureaucrats (idiots) who have no clue about thermodynamics, efficiency or dynamics. Just pass a rule to defy reality.

CAFE mpg isn't the EPA mpg you see on the window sticker.

CAFE mpg is a 55% weighting of the FTP-75 drive cycle (which was based on an EPA engineer's stop & go drive in downtown Los Angeles in 1972):
https://www.epa.gov/system/files/styles/small/private/images/2021-11/ftp.jpg?itok=n4SPDmgW

...and a 45% weighting of the HWfet drive cycle (which was based on an EPA engineer's back road drive in 1975 under the 55mph national speed limit):
https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2015-10/hwfetdds.gif

It may be hard to tell from the graphs, but not only are the speeds low, the rate of acceleration is downright glacial (roughly equivalent to a 20 second 0-60). These tests are also done on a dyno with air conditioning off and with ~70 degree atmospheric temperatures.

As you might imagine, few Americans today drive like an EPA engineer in 1975 so the EPA has updated its procedures over time to better reflect the real world reality.

In the 1980s, they simply multiplied the above mpg by something like 80% to match what 1980s drivers were getting (on 55mph roads).

In the 2000s the EPA changed the window sticker methodology again to reflect higher speed driving in the wake of the 55mph speed limit's demise.

Around 2010, the EPA changed window sticker methodology again because Toyota and Ford hybrids were getting much worse numbers in the real world than on the 70 degree dyno. The tests now added a cold-weather cycle and used air conditioning on the warm weather cycle - both of which disproportionately affect hybrid's mpg.

CAFE mpg, on the other hand, remained rooted in 1975. All told, a 40mpg CAFE rating for a pickup is somewhere around 28mpg window sticker mpg. And then there are the byzantine incentives that allow an automaker to meet CAFE standards without actually meeting CAFE mpg. Union lobbyists gave american-assembled vehicles a credit. Detroit lobbyists added a formula that allows vehicles with a larger "footprint" (length & width) to meet lower numbers.

Perversely, this "footprint" rule killed most small, economical cars & pickups (which were disproportionately imports):

https://youtu.be/azI3nqrHEXM

Tokarev

08-02-2023, 01:58 PM

I am hoping the Land Cruiser does not feel under powered like the 4 Runner.The Lexus GX550 appears to be essentially the same rig but with the 3.4L V6 instead of this new 4-banger.

https://www.motortrend.com/features/toyota-land-cruiser-vs-lexus-gx-specs-features-comparison/

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

GJM

08-02-2023, 04:04 PM

I am hoping the Land Cruiser does not feel under powered like the 4 Runner.

It has modest horsepower and excellent torque -- not sure what this means in performance?

DamonL

08-02-2023, 04:12 PM

True. It depends on if you want off-road low-end torque or highway passing speed.

Chip Saunders

08-02-2023, 04:55 PM

4 banger, in a LC, not
heard they were doing retro, guess not

Navin Johnson

08-02-2023, 06:09 PM

I am hoping the Land Cruiser does not feel under powered like the 4 Runner.

326/465? About as much twist as a Ford 7.3 diesel with 100 more hp

my v10 f 250 was 315/425 yes I know torque curve is most important but it would tow 10K with ease

4 runner suffers from a balky transmission and a bit underpowered.. (although very reliable)

My guess is the cruiser will be quite adequate.....

1911Nut

08-02-2023, 07:27 PM

Looks like an older 4Runner slept with an FJ Cruiser.

Hybrid

Turbo

Meh

Borderland

08-02-2023, 08:54 PM

I don't see this being a big seller in Africa. Lacking in passenger accommodations.

https://i.ibb.co/vJfXPd3/toyota-blog-2.jpg (https://ibb.co/gDQ4TWS)

Spartan1980

08-02-2023, 09:30 PM

I hate that chart. Made by bureaucrats (idiots) who have no clue about thermodynamics, efficiency or dynamics. Just pass a rule to defy reality.

They do this in the fallacy that science and technology will advance since they, in all their "authority", have deemed that it must. They are dictatorial assholes of the first order and don't have a clue about real world.

BehindBlueI's

08-02-2023, 11:50 PM

Do we want to talk cars or politics?

DamonL

08-03-2023, 06:31 AM

I don't see this being a big seller in Africa. Lacking in passenger accommodations.

https://i.ibb.co/vJfXPd3/toyota-blog-2.jpg (https://ibb.co/gDQ4TWS)

That's a Hi Lux. Its for the masses. The Land Cruiser is for the Dictator of the country. ;)

Hambo

08-03-2023, 07:40 AM

Do we want to talk cars or politics?

Point taken, but they do go together. In Europe and N. America, you're going to be driving an EV, but in West Africa you can get a recently exported American car that can't, and doesn't have to, pass any emission standards. If the point is for EVs to help the environment, everybody needs to play the game.

I don't like the looks of the new LC, but I'm not the market generation. They'll sell a shit ton of them, and the only water they'll drive through is the puddles in shopping centers.

BehindBlueI's

08-03-2023, 09:32 AM

Point taken, but they do go together. .

Literally any topic can go together with politics. And frequently does on ye olde social media. There's a subforum if people want to discuss the EPA, CAFE, import/export laws, etc. This thread and subforum isn't it.

Borderland

08-03-2023, 09:50 AM

On a serious note. The older FJ's (2014 ish) are highly sought after around here. The ones I see in the parking lot have never been off road. No brush pinstrips anywhere.

If Toyota calls it a Land Cruiser people in the US will buy every one Toyota makes. It will become an I-5 4WD must have.

Here's some more details.

Despite the narrower body, the accommodations feel more generous than the current 4Runner. Interior dimensions are not yet available, but the vehicle feels right-sized. That's because this smaller Land Cruiser is still not as small as the current Toyota 4Runner, which still has a place to live in the hierarchy in its usual place below this new Land Cruiser. Toyota is mum about any new 4Runner specifics, except to say it's not going anywhere. We think the new 4Runner, when it arrives, will slot in at a lower price point by using the Tacoma's part-time four-wheel-drive system and its base and midlevel engine offerings. A high-performance TRD Pro will probably continue, as that would distinguish it from the more overland-focused Land Cruiser.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a44699820/2024-toyota-land-cruiser-revealed/

bofe954

08-03-2023, 10:09 AM

I'm looking for a midsize truck or SUV soon and this will be in the mix. I prefer body on frame because I live in the rust belt and vehicles can totalled by rust here. I have seen unibody vehicles rendered inoperable by deer strikes, body on frame vehicles still tend to be driveable after roadside repair like prying a fender off a tire.

I'm not a convertible guy and am not interested in the leaking/road/wind noise issues you get with removable tops so the wrangler/gladiator and bronco are out for me.

I'd prefer a fold flat 3rd row, and I guess the battery position eliminates that, so in that respect the battery is a bummer to me. I also can never figure out the point of not having the option to plug in. If I could get 20 miles off electric/day I could probably fill a gas tank once a month or less.

Powerwise I think it'll be fine. I rented a 4runner and it was kind of a dog, but I blame the late '80s era 5 speed transmission more than HP/torque. I thought if it had a ZF 8 speed with 2 lower gears, and closer ratios it'd be fine.

As for water fording, I guess put me in the mall crowd. It'd have to pretty extreme situation to make me want to get deeper than the doors in my daily driver. Since the Jeep 4xe can ford 30", I don't think batteries really limit water fording.

I'm also with the mall crowd when it comes to electronic sway bar disconnects. I'd prefer not to pay to have it and I think it'd be more likely to cause maintenance issues for me than be needed for what I do, which is more fire road/deep snow/ice than rock crawling.

I'll be interested in how they price out vs. the Lexus, my guess is I'd rather have the bottom trim GX than the top trim Toyota, even thought I really can't see myself in a luxury brand vehicle.

GJM

08-03-2023, 11:54 AM

It has modest horsepower and excellent torque -- not sure what this means in performance?

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15347872/horsepower-vs-torque-whats-the-difference/

0ddl0t

08-03-2023, 01:38 PM

As for water fording, I guess put me in the mall crowd. It'd have to pretty extreme situation to make me want to get deeper than the doors in my daily driver. Since the Jeep 4xe can ford 30", I don't think batteries really limit water fording.

Jeep uses a sealed lithium ion battery that is cooled (and heated) by a liquid coolant system which should, in theory, be able to withstand submersion.

While heavier than lithium ion and less capable of rapid charging & discharging, Toyota's NiMH batteries can better withstand extreme temperatures so Toyota just uses a fan to blow cabin-temperature air over the batteries. While there is much less to go wrong, this also means if you get water in the cab, you'll get water in the batteries.

Some of the early highlander hybrids had problems with leaking sunroofs which sometimes resulted in battery corrosion. Likewise many prius and camry hybrid batteries fail after a poorly repaired rear end collision allowed rain intrusion. Generally these can be fixed by a skilled DIYer cleaning bus bars and replacing a couple bad cells for a few hundred dollars, but if you're a "take it to the dealer" type you can expect to pay $4,000+ for a new battery pack.

Also note that while NiMH batteries will withstand extreme temperatures better than Li+ they will still degrade more rapidly when repeatedly subjected to 150° temperatures (not uncommon when parked in the sun on a 120° day with windows up). In the central valley this is one of the big reasons toyota hybrid batteries wear out. Some Toyotas have solar roofs which allow the fans to blow fresh air into the cabin when parked in the sun, but this tends to be only an option.

Tesla and Stellantis will keep their batteries cool when parked, which is why they can have a relatively big power draw when unplugged.

DamonL

08-04-2023, 03:33 PM

https://www.lexus.com/newGX

The Lexus version will have 3 rows and twin-turbos.

UNM1136

08-04-2023, 04:09 PM

My riding buddy used to own this one:

"Who would paint a car that color???

Man oughta have his ass removed."

You are of enough age to recall the movie, aren't you?:p;):cool:

pat

JCN

08-04-2023, 04:32 PM

https://www.lexus.com/newGX

The Lexus version will have 3 rows and twin-turbos.

I like the way that looks in beige. Might be a good option for people who like Land Rovers but don't like their cars breaking down... :D

RoyGBiv

08-04-2023, 04:36 PM

"Who would paint a car that color???

Man oughta have his ass removed."

You are of enough age to recall the movie, aren't you?:p;):cool:

pat

I knew it was Clint but I had to look up the movie.....

Whoever defaced that work of art by painting it that color... ought to have his ass removed.

UNM1136

08-04-2023, 04:39 PM

I knew it was Clint but I had to look up the movie.....

Yeah, I misquoted from memory, but one of my favorites from Dirty Harry and Chuck Whats-his-nuts.

pat

camel

08-04-2023, 05:12 PM

I like the way that looks in beige. Might be a good option for people who like Land Rovers but don't like their cars breaking down... :D

Land rovers keep me employed. Toyotas don’t unless your a dumbass. Or it’s just old or you didn’t get the frame replaced under warranty.

GJM

08-04-2023, 08:04 PM

Land rovers keep me employed. Toyotas don’t unless your a dumbass. Or it’s just old or you didn’t get the frame replaced under warranty.

When I hunted Africa regularly, the Land Cruiser had a 100 percent tax on import, and the Land Rover did not have a tax. The vehicle of choice was still the Toyota, despite the tax, because of reliability.

DamonL

08-04-2023, 08:40 PM

And I am hoping the new model will be just as reliable with all the new technology.

Navin Johnson

08-04-2023, 11:41 PM

And I am hoping the new model will be just as reliable with all the new technology.

Early adapters should have extended warranty

Suvorov

08-05-2023, 03:53 PM

When I hunted Africa regularly, the Land Cruiser had a 100 percent tax on import, and the Land Rover did not have a tax. The vehicle of choice was still the Toyota, despite the tax, because of reliability.

Like the old saying goes - “If you want to go into the bush, buy a Land Rover. If you want to come back out, buy a Land Cruiser!”

Lex Luthier

08-05-2023, 08:44 PM

Like the old saying goes - “If you want to go into the bush, buy a Land Rover. If you want to come back out, buy a Land Cruiser!”

During the Rhodesian Bush War, my friend who was a lieutenant in Grey’s Scouts carried a case of starters in his Land Rover. They rarely came back from an extended patrol without having to replace one.

psalms144.1

08-05-2023, 08:57 PM

I kinda dig it. I'm NOT chuffed about the powertrain, having found the hybrid in the Sienna van to be lackluster and loud. Not sure what this one will be like, but I'm not terribly hopeful.

fixer

08-06-2023, 12:11 PM

Jeep uses a sealed lithium ion battery that is cooled (and heated) by a liquid coolant system which should, in theory, be able to withstand submersion.

While heavier than lithium ion and less capable of rapid charging & discharging, Toyota's NiMH batteries can better withstand extreme temperatures so Toyota just uses a fan to blow cabin-temperature air over the batteries. While there is much less to go wrong, this also means if you get water in the cab, you'll get water in the batteries.

Some of the early highlander hybrids had problems with leaking sunroofs which sometimes resulted in battery corrosion. Likewise many prius and camry hybrid batteries fail after a poorly repaired rear end collision allowed rain intrusion. Generally these can be fixed by a skilled DIYer cleaning bus bars and replacing a couple bad cells for a few hundred dollars, but if you're a "take it to the dealer" type you can expect to pay $4,000+ for a new battery pack.

I would think that the LC design would have incorporated a method to seal out water intrusion. Substantially different use then a commuter vehicle. The battery is in cabin but has anyone actually got pictures of it in the wild?

0ddl0t

08-06-2023, 12:55 PM

I would think that the LC design would have incorporated a method to seal out water intrusion. Substantially different use then a commuter vehicle. The battery is in cabin but has anyone actually got pictures of it in the wild?

That's a good point. Looking at the Tundra hybrid's battery specs, Toyota says:

288V sealed Nickel-Metal Hydride (Ni-MH) battery *with 1.87 kWh capacity

For the Toyota Crown they say:

230.4V Nickel-Metal Hydride (Ni-MH)

I haven't seen any close up pictures of the Tundra battery yet.

Edit: this video shows a cutaway and describes it as cabin air-cooled vs the F150's liquid cooled:

https://youtu.be/oghwzU0FHbI

bofe954

08-06-2023, 02:35 PM

I would think that the LC design would have incorporated a method to seal out water intrusion. Substantially different use then a commuter vehicle. The battery is in cabin but has anyone actually got pictures of it in the wild?

It looks like it's right where a third row would be, hence no third row. One of the videos I saw commented on the high load height of the back area and showed a storage bin and I think it's right behind it.

You can sort of see it at 14 minutes here- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp5coc9exZg

I'm not thrilled about the drivetrain but they are saying 27mpg so far. Compared to 17mpg for the GX...

Lost River

08-06-2023, 03:15 PM

I see lots of Land Cruisers, as well as Tacomas and Tundras around where I am at. Many decked out with roof tents, various pieces of "overlanding" gear. 90+% of them are pristine. I wish my rig had a few less scratches on it, but it sees use year round and has gone through more sagebrush than I want to think about. Not to mention been buried to the frame in mud more than a few times.

https://i.imgur.com/rVmFZiyh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/gZtCCy6h.jpg

Eventually I am going to have to do some major upkeep on it, but for now, I will just keep on driving in the slow lane and remember to bring an extra shovel..

https://i.imgur.com/4bgwrtMh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Am6vrGQh.jpg

Suvorov

08-06-2023, 04:48 PM

Pin stripes and small dents on 4x4s are like holster wear and receiver scratches on guns - a sign the owner is using it as intended.

Only adds to the beauty!

Tokarev

08-08-2023, 10:33 AM

Something for you old Cruiser fans.

https://youtu.be/xSGM9jSq5Jc

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

Evil_Ed

08-08-2023, 09:40 PM

My first car was a Jeep; YJ, 1992 or 1993 (whatever the first year of the "new" roll bar design, with the rear legs). Loved that car. Grew up in a Jeep family; ever since the unibody Cherokee came out in the early 1980s we've always had at least one Jeep in the family if not 2 or 3. Everything from Wranglers to Grand Wagoneers in the late 80s/early 90s; my dad drove his final year version (IIRC it came in a special color) until it eventually just became too much of a pain in the ass to keep going over 120k miles...it was also the last factory carbureted car sold in the US...anyway.

I've gone through 3 Wranglers; a couple 4wd pickups, a few Subarus, and currently am in a 2022 Toyota 4Runner - and I wish I had just gotten a 4Runner back in the 1990s...it probably would have saved me a lot of bullshit. This thing is great.

I don't really "offroad" though I do live in rural farmland area so half the roads I drive on are unimproved/dirt/farm roads; rocks, mud, washboard, and cowshit. The last normal car I had was a Subaru Legacy and I would constantly scrape the bottom on random rocks, so an elevated platform is kind of necessary.

I'm really hoping the new LC isn't all that great, because right now it's about the only thing I could conceivably think about trading the 4Runner in for. I've low key wanted a Land Cruiser since college in the mid-1990s; a professor had one. I thought it was kind of stodgy...until I saw the controls for the locking diffs and all the other off-road goodies. Again, not that I go rock crawling, but...it's nice to be able to.

Also nice to go for a drive and not hear/feel creak whistle creak wobble wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiind everywhere...with all the windows closed, at that. I swear my last Jeep was noisier than a bar during happy hour. The Toyota is an abandoned library of quietness in comparison. I'm tickling 50 now; I've gotten to the point where a luxury feature in a new car is quiet. I'll take that over Apple Carplay/Android Auto integration, any day.

Man I hope Toyota simultaneously makes the new LC awesome, and makes it horrible...I don't want to find a reason to trade in my 4Runner...

08-09-2023, 07:43 AM

Man I hope Toyota simultaneously makes the new LC awesome, and makes it horrible...I don't want to find a reason to trade in my 4Runner...

My wife bought a 2002 Toyota Highlander new right off the truck. She drove it 250,000 miles and wanted to keep driving it but it needed some expensive work on the brakes that would exceed the worth of the car. A few years later, she wishes she'd taken it to an off road shop or somewhere and just spent the money. She's driving a 2019 Highlander now but doesn't like it quite as much as the 2002.

Borderland

08-09-2023, 10:15 AM

I've gone through 3 Wranglers; a couple 4wd pickups, a few Subarus, and currently am in a 2022 Toyota 4Runner - and I wish I had just gotten a 4Runner back in the 1990s...it probably would have saved me a lot of bullshit. This thing is great.

I had a 97 4R that I purchased new. Lost that in a divorce. My ex immediately sold it to someone here on the island. It's still a daily driver for somebody because I see it at the local market occasionally. If I ever met up with the owner I'll politely ask how many miles is on it. I think it had close to 100K when it was sold about 20 years ago.

Borderland

08-09-2023, 10:34 AM

The Highlanders built in Japan were bullet proof. Wife had a 2005 that she sold after putting 180K on it. I don't think 2008 and later have the same build quality.

CraigS

08-09-2023, 02:13 PM

I am not a fan of small engines w/ turbos either. But the mpg#s that are coming from these from several manufacturers is a big improvement. Also the lowend TQ is usually impressive. So that + the battery and motors (remember max TQ from an electric motor is at ZERO rpm) + the 8 speed trans, I suspect this car will be more than adequate. Also having spent 22 yrs as a lexus dealer tech, I have always been impressed w/ Toyota quality.

GJM

08-09-2023, 02:17 PM

Any sense of the gas mileage this new hybrid power plant will have in the Tacoma and Land Cruiser?

0ddl0t

08-09-2023, 04:18 PM

The Highlanders built in Japan were bullet proof. Wife had a 2005 that she sold after putting 180K on it. I don't think 2008 and later have the same build quality.

I believe all 2008 and most 2009 highlanders were still built in Japan, but they had the typical bugs and QC issues common in the first two years of a brand new generation. All conventional 2010+ (us market) highlanders were built in the USA, but the hybrids were still built in Japan until 2015 or so. If the first digit of the VIN is a "J" you know it was built in Japan...

I love the 1st gen highlanders - the size and shape is better suited for the undulations common on fire service roads. Same goes for the early Rav4. They're definitely "soft roaders" but they were shaped such that you could judiciously carry enough momentum to make it on 99% of dirt roads (without smashing front air dams)...

Any sense of the gas mileage this new hybrid power plant will have in the Tacoma and Land Cruiser?

I'd expect 24-25mpg combined. The same engine transversely mounted in the more aerodynamic, pavement-oriented RX500 is rated 27 city 28 highway. A similar longitudinal weak hybrid setup in the Tundra, albeit with a larger engine, gets 20 city/24 highway.

camel

08-09-2023, 05:34 PM

I'd expect 24-25mpg combined. The same engine transversely mounted in the more aerodynamic, pavement-oriented RX500 is rated 27 city 28 highway. A similar longitudinal weak hybrid setup in the Tundra, albeit with a larger engine, gets 20 city/24 highway.

That’s what I would suspect as well.

GJM

08-11-2023, 05:20 PM

Apparently this is on Toyota's website:

108292

Spartan1980

08-12-2023, 08:14 PM

This is talking about the hybrid pickup, but it's a fairly deep dive on the hybrid system. The new LC sounds like it's basically the same. I thought it was pretty interesting as I don't really follow electric vehicle stuff much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkXiYiGWZnE

Dov

08-13-2023, 06:15 AM

What is interesting, is if this new product was called 4Runner instead of LC, I would have believed it. Now makes me wonder what the new 4Runner will look like. Seems like this power plant will be universal now for many Toyota products.

Haven't read the full thread and but at least appearance it reminds me of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_FJ_Cruiser

Did they just rename it for US market?

Dov

08-13-2023, 06:29 AM

Pin stripes and small dents on 4x4s are like holster wear and receiver scratches on guns - a sign the owner is using it as intended.

Only adds to the beauty!

That reminds me of a neighbor that was in CCW class with me, he was asking about carry holsters and holster wear on guns because he didn't want any on his carry pistol and didn't like my answer that shouldn't carry gun you can't live with losing or damaging because of realities of just carrying it & etc.

At first I thought he'd be carrying an expensive 1911, he has a Maserati that lives in garage think I've seen him drive it once so was thinking he might have a $5k+ 1911, but his carry gun is a Kahr so didn't understand really. He likes his possessions and doesn't want a scratch or even scruff mark on them.

Been trying to think about how to make helpful suggestion to him about it, his daily driver car is a midsize beater SUV maybe could suggest his actual carry gun be something equivalent to that and his nice Kahr live like his Maserati does? More of a BBQ gun than actual CCW.

Borderland

08-13-2023, 10:18 AM

I treat my 1911 like my lawn mower. No 5K 1911's for me. ;)

Navin Johnson

08-13-2023, 11:12 AM

The people I know with new tundras are getting 13 to 14 around town about 18-19 on the highway. (the hybrid version makes very little difference. Its main benefit is more power.)

Boosted motors are very dependent on your right foot to get the mileage they’re capable of

Also, just slightly bigger tires can greatly change mileage

idahojess

08-13-2023, 11:18 AM

Nick B

08-13-2023, 11:42 AM

Thread drift, but I enjoy watching the Car Care Nut videos. He is a smart dude, and a good communicator.

I also watch his videos. He knows his stuff .

Suvorov

08-13-2023, 11:58 AM

That reminds me of a neighbor that was in CCW class with me, he was asking about carry holsters and holster wear on guns because he didn't want any on his carry pistol and didn't like my answer that shouldn't carry gun you can't live with losing or damaging because of realities of just carrying it & etc.

At first I thought he'd be carrying an expensive 1911, he has a Maserati that lives in garage think I've seen him drive it once so was thinking he might have a $5k+ 1911, but his carry gun is a Kahr so didn't understand really. He likes his possessions and doesn't want a scratch or even scruff mark on them.

Been trying to think about how to make helpful suggestion to him about it, his daily driver car is a midsize beater SUV maybe could suggest his actual carry gun be something equivalent to that and his nice Kahr live like his Maserati does? More of a BBQ gun than actual CCW.

People are goofy when it comes to guns…..

At this point I’m almost ready to give my Kahr away……

ETA - The more I think and read, the more convinced I am that a 2026 Land Cruiser will be my next vehicle.

GJM

02-29-2024, 10:59 AM

23 mpg

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a60013224/2024-toyota-land-cruiser-hybrid-fuel-economy/

BehindBlueI's

02-29-2024, 11:59 AM

23 mpg

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a60013224/2024-toyota-land-cruiser-hybrid-fuel-economy/

The city rating is 22 mpg and the highway rating is 25 mpg

an official EPA combined rating of 23 mpg, along with a city rating of 22 mpg and a highway rating of 27 mpg

Same article, two different highway numbers. Wonder which is right...

Default.mp3

02-29-2024, 12:33 PM

Same article, two different highway numbers. Wonder which is right...Don't see the numbers up on https://www.fueleconomy.gov/, but the Toyota website states 22/25/23 MPG for city/highway/combined.

Wonder what I could get with my driving habits; I am able to average slightly over 20 MPG on my 4runner. The Land Cruiser seems like it could be a decent replacement for being a daily at the very least a few more years down the line.

GJM

02-29-2024, 12:41 PM

Don't see the numbers up on https://www.fueleconomy.gov/, but the Toyota website states 22/25/23 MPG for city/highway/combined.

Wonder what I could get with my driving habits; I am able to average slightly over 20 MPG on my 4runner. The Land Cruiser seems like it could be a decent replacement for being a daily at the very least a few more years down the line.

We were more like 16-18 on our late model 4Runner, but it was in Montana. The 80 mph on the I90 and 85-87 being the common speed sucked for economy.

Default.mp3

02-29-2024, 01:03 PM

We were more like 16-18 on our late model 4Runner, but it was in Montana. The 80 mph on the I90 and 85-87 being the common speed sucked for economy.Yeah, my 20 MPG is mostly around town stuff, where I try to stay below 70 MPH even on the freeway. Long distance drives, I typically average ~17 MPG.

Trigger

02-29-2024, 01:07 PM

I currently drive a 4Runner. If I had to choose between the new LandCruiser and the Lexus GX, I’d pick the Lexus. Seems like for $70k you get a lot more with the Lexus GX 550 than the LandCruiser standard for $65-70k.

I have not looked at nor driven either one. Perhaps I would not like how they drive. I must be truthful that my driving is mostly paved roads, some dirt roads, and only occasionally something muddy or snowy. I don’t need a TRD Pro or real off-road capability.

MGW

03-01-2024, 07:31 AM

There is no way I would buy a hybrid for 23 MPG. As much as I would love to own a Land Cruiser, I’m perfectly happy with my 4Runner.

GJM

03-01-2024, 10:02 AM

There is no way I would buy a hybrid for 23 MPG. As much as I would love to own a Land Cruiser, I’m perfectly happy with my 4Runner.

Elaborate on your thought process -- are you worried about reliability or durability? The legacy Land Cruiser is low teen's mpg, so if your comparison is to it and not your 4Runner, it is much more efficient.

Coal Train

03-01-2024, 10:08 AM

I was "impressed" with the fuel mileage of my wife 2018 Lexus GX..........until a woman with no license and no insurance managed to hit the front AND back of it. Totaled.

We replaced it with a 2016 Lexus LX. And while it is probably my favorite vehicle I have ever owned, it makes the GX fuel mileage look like a Corolla. It is truly amazing how a modern vehicle can get such abysmal gas mileage. It is an absolute engineering achievement. The dash computer currently reads 12.7mpg which is probably optimistic. That is with ~80/20 city/highway driving and my wife drives slow. Of course it wants 93 octane fuel. On the interstate driving 65 mph, down hill, with a tailwind you might get it up to 15.0mpg. Which is nice for road trips because when paired with its Corolla sized gas tank it, fuel stops sync up pretty well perfectly with my old man bladder capacity. No extra stops. Lexus efficiency.

I think the terrible fuel mileage must be due to the HVAC system, which is by far any away the best of any vehicle I have ever owned.

And the fact that it weighs 6,000 lbs.

MGW

03-01-2024, 10:18 AM

Elaborate on your thought process -- are you worried about reliability or durability? The legacy Land Cruiser is low teen's mpg, so if your comparison is to it and not your 4Runner, it is much more efficient.

I'm more concerned about durability. I know the life span of a battery pack will be much lower than that of a traditional internal combustion engine. We just paid $200 to replace a battery in the significant other's vehicle. I can't imagine what it would cost to replace a battery pack, and I'm sure it's not user-level maintenance.

You make a good point about comparing the new LC to the legacy model. I wonder, however, what the gas mileage of the current model would be without the hybrid power system? I assume the new engine is more efficient than the old one. Reducing the overall weight by removing the battery pack couldn't hurt.

Default.mp3

03-01-2024, 10:22 AM

Elaborate on your thought process -- are you worried about reliability or durability? The legacy Land Cruiser is low teen's mpg, so if your comparison is to it and not your 4Runner, it is much more efficient.Given that the old LC and new LC are such different creatures (the new one is really just an LC Prado, rather than an actual LC), a more apt comparison might be to the new Lexus GX, which has 15/21/17 MPG for city/highway/combined, as the GX is basically the Lexus version of the LC, but instead has a V6 twin turbo rather than the hybrid engine in the LC.

Suvorov

03-01-2024, 10:32 AM

I am far more concerned about the mandated “remote kill” switches than I am about it being a Hybrid. Looks like 2025 will be the year to get…..

Drogo Bunce

03-01-2024, 11:39 AM

I am far more concerned about the mandated “remote kill” switches than I am about it being a Hybrid. Looks like 2025 will be the year to get…..

I wouldn't worry about those. There will be dongles to defeat them on the market within a year of their hitting the market. Legislators don't know or care that these mandates are easily defeated, they just need to be able to get on the evening news claiming to have "done something". The reporters don't know or care either, and neither do most voters. They'll keep stroking their egos with legislation, and we'll keep bypassing the tech. The Chinese are only too happy to engineer and sell stuff to defeat our laws.

BehindBlueI's

03-01-2024, 11:52 AM

I am far more concerned about the mandated “remote kill” switches than I am about it being a Hybrid. Looks like 2025 will be the year to get…..

There are no mandated remote kill switches except in the media. The actual legislation is worse, IMO. Remote kill indicates a human somewhere decides to do it, likely based on law and with some accountability for misuse. An electric version of spike strips, basically. This technology already exists but nobody uses it because of the obvious liability of shutting off a vehicle that's in motion. If you have OnStar, you have a remote kill switch in your vehicle. If you have OTA drivetrain software update capability, you have a remote kill switch in your vehicle. Any of these can remotely shut off your car, limit the speed, tell it to not restart after it's shut off, etc.

No, the reality is *your car* will make the decision. *Your car* will decide if you are too sleepy or too drunk or whatever to continue to drive based on whatever programming it's been given. What actions it takes are not yet legislated, it may just yell at you, it may pull you over and shut off, it may do anything in between because the technology doesn't exist yet and the law is only to fund research to mandate 'something' down the road.

Suvorov

03-01-2024, 12:43 PM

BB thanks for the clarification.

BehindBlueI's

03-01-2024, 02:41 PM

BB thanks for the clarification.

Sure. It's absolutely next level nanny state. See: https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/NR20220920.aspx

As a result of the investigation, the NTSB is recommending measures leveraging new in-vehicle technologies that can limit or prohibit impaired drivers from operating their vehicles as well as technologies to prevent speeding. These include:

Requiring passive vehicle-integrated alcohol impairment detection systems, advanced driver monitoring systems or a combination of the two that would be capable of preventing or limiting vehicle operation if it detects driver impairment by alcohol. The NTSB recommends that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration require all new vehicles to be equipped with such systems.
Incentivizing vehicle manufacturers and consumers to adopt intelligent speed adaptation systems that would prevent speed-related crashes. This is a reiteration of a previous NTSB recommendation to NHTSA.

In 2022, the National Transportation Safety Board recommended to NHTSA that all new vehicles in the U.S. be equipped with alcohol monitoring systems that can stop an intoxicated person from driving.

NHTSA and a group of 16 automakers have been jointly funding research on alcohol monitoring, forming a group called Driver Alcohol Detection System for Safety.

The group is researching technology that would automatically test a driver’s breath for alcohol and stop a vehicle from moving if the driver is impaired. The driver wouldn’t have to blow into a tube, and a sensor would check the driver’s breath.

Another company is working on light technology that could test for blood alcohol in a person’s finger, the group has said.

Note they also want to use in car cameras to monitor your eye movement and other signs of fatigue. All based on a computer in your car deciding if you're good to drive or not. No thanks.

Suvorov

03-01-2024, 03:29 PM

0ddl0t

03-02-2024, 03:58 PM

I'm more concerned about durability. I know the life span of a battery pack will be much lower than that of a traditional internal combustion engine. We just paid $200 to replace a battery in the significant other's vehicle. I can't imagine what it would cost to replace a battery pack, and I'm sure it's not user-level maintenance.

You make a good point about comparing the new LC to the legacy model. I wonder, however, what the gas mileage of the current model would be without the hybrid power system? I assume the new engine is more efficient than the old one. Reducing the overall weight by removing the battery pack couldn't hurt.

Toyota hybrid battery packs can be reconditioned by enthusiasts and there are more and more 3rd party folks offering free lifetime warranties (e.g. Green Bean batteries). The price can run $3,000, but it only takes ~50,000 miles to recoup that in fuel savings vs the previous generation...

Now that I'm not driving a zillion miles a year, the problem I have with hybrid durability is that they really don't like to sit. For instance, Green Bean's lifetime warranty excludes:

The vehicle is stored for a period of thirty (30) days or more.
The vehicle is driven less than 2,500 miles in a calendar year.

GJM

04-08-2024, 07:02 PM

Toyota introduces the new 4Runner end of the day tomorrow. How fitting that it is a day after the total solar eclipse, since a new 4Runner happens about as often as a total eclipse.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a60432602/2025-toyota-4runner-trailhunter-details/

camel

04-08-2024, 07:07 PM

Toyota hybrid battery packs can be reconditioned by enthusiasts and there are more and more 3rd party folks offering free lifetime warranties (e.g. Green Bean batteries). The price can run $3,000, but it only takes ~50,000 miles to recoup that in fuel savings vs the previous generation...

Now that I'm not driving a zillion miles a year, the problem I have with hybrid durability is that they really don't like to sit. For instance, Green Bean's lifetime warranty excludes:

That’s honestly a problem with a lot of batteries. Batteries like to be maintained at optimal charge and range. Especially for something that has to vary load.

GJM

04-09-2024, 09:31 PM

JAD

04-09-2024, 09:46 PM

Toyota hybrid battery packs can be reconditioned by enthusiasts and there are more and more 3rd party folks offering free lifetime warranties (e.g. Green Bean batteries). The price can run $3,000, but it only takes ~50,000 miles to recoup that in fuel savings vs the previous generation...

Now that I'm not driving a zillion miles a year, the problem I have with hybrid durability is that they really don't like to sit. For instance, Green Bean's lifetime warranty excludes:

I am pretty unenthusiastic about enthusiasts fucking with batteries.

0ddl0t

04-10-2024, 01:01 AM

I am pretty unenthusiastic about enthusiasts fucking with batteries.

It isn't that bad, especially once you break the high voltage pack down to individual cells. Messing with batteries is probably safer for someone with zero knowledge than someone with zero knowledge messing with gasoline and ignition.

Typical home enthusiast reconditioning a toyota hybrid battery:

https://youtu.be/BkijbLk8hzI?si=5_i879vpwVwQZM2w

Usually a newly bad pack will only need to replace a couple cell modules at $25-30/pop used. The pack in that video needed to replace 14 of the 28 modules (28 in a prius, the trucks/suvs have a few more modules) which is probably a sign the cells got way too hot. They're air cooled from cabin air so it probably came from a car that blocked the cooling vents with blankets or had long haired dogs and never cleaned the vents.

JAD

04-10-2024, 05:16 AM

It isn't that bad,
Oh, I see! Well, thank you very much for the information!

rob_s

04-10-2024, 05:44 AM

Reveal:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a60441721/2025-toyota-4runner-revealed/

approved

Hambo

04-10-2024, 06:58 AM

Sure. It's absolutely next level nanny state. See: https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/NR20220920.aspx

Note they also want to use in car cameras to monitor your eye movement and other signs of fatigue. All based on a computer in your car deciding if you're good to drive or not. No thanks.

I'm all for it. Between the aged, half-blind, drunk, high, incompetent, uninsured, unlicensed, and distracted drivers here, I dodge two to three accidents every single day. None of them will regulate their own behavior, so let their car do it for them. :cool:

GJM

04-10-2024, 06:59 AM

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a60442127/2025-toyota-4runner-2024-toyota-land-cruiser-compared/

4Runner compared to LC.

Trigger

04-10-2024, 07:48 AM

rcbusmc24

04-10-2024, 09:37 AM

Oh, I see! Well, thank you very much for the information!

Aren't batteries and related tech like your whole wheelhouse or something...

JAD

04-10-2024, 09:46 AM

Aren't batteries and related tech like your whole wheelhouse or something...

Yeah, but he watched a YouTube video!

mmc45414

04-10-2024, 12:02 PM

Note they also want to use in car cameras to monitor your eye movement and other signs of fatigue. All based on a computer in your car deciding if you're good to drive or not. No thanks.
We just got a 2023 Transit Connect that is a cargo configuration, so it ostensibly a commercial vehicle, and occasionally it pops up a notice something like Rest Recommended. Has yet to ever do it when I was tired... :confused:

ragnar_d

04-10-2024, 12:33 PM

We just got a 2023 Transit Connect that is a cargo configuration, so it ostensibly a commercial vehicle, and occasionally it pops up a notice something like Rest Recommended. Has yet to ever do it when I was tired... :confused:
My 2020 Ranger has the same system. According to Ford, it bases the "alertness" warnings on what the camera above the mirror sees the vehicle doing in relation to the lane markings (https://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/vdirsnet/OwnerManual/Home/Content?variantid=7828&languageCode=en&countryCode=USA&Uid=G1966056&ProcUid=G1957228&userMarket=usa&div=f&vFilteringEnabled=False&buildtype=web). I imagine it uses steering wheel inputs too because another nanny-system nags at me to keep my hands on the wheel when I'm driving dead straight and don't have a death grip on the wheel.

mmc45414

04-10-2024, 12:36 PM

It bases the "alertness" warnings on what the camera above the mirror sees the vehicle doing in relation to the lane markings (https://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/vdirsnet/OwnerManual/Home/Content?variantid=7828&languageCode=en&countryCode=USA&Uid=G1966056&ProcUid=G1957228&userMarket=usa&div=f&vFilteringEnabled=False&buildtype=web).

Hmmmm, come to think about it, I do not remember getting that warning since (during about the fifth week of ownership) I backed into a pole and crunched the left rear sensor...

GJM

04-10-2024, 01:41 PM

Another option:

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a46595003/2024-lexus-gx550-drive/

The imbedded video is pretty good. The humor of its location as the Scottsdale/Carefree horse country is subtle.

That is an interesting option. The trade-off seems to be lower gas mileage (17 MPG) with a non-hybrid, more traditional power plant, versus a hybrid engine with 23 mpg and unknown, durability and reliability?

JAD

04-11-2024, 06:13 AM

That is an interesting option. The trade-off seems to be lower gas mileage (17 MPG) with a non-hybrid, more traditional power plant, versus a hybrid engine with 23 mpg and unknown, durability and reliability?

I don't know too much about passenger applications, but I will point out that the uber drivers I've talked to love the Prius. A hybrid pulls a ton of work off the ICE plant, giving all of the heavy torque loading to the battery, which makes the whole system last longer (apparently). That does match up with what my customers in the transit bus market say about their historical hybrids (though they're very dismissive of hybrids, considering it time wasted on the way to an inevitable ZEV transition).

mmc45414

04-13-2024, 07:10 AM

I don't know too much about passenger applications, but I will point out that the uber drivers I've talked to love the Prius. A hybrid pulls a ton of work off the ICE plant, giving all of the heavy torque loading to the battery, which makes the whole system last longer (apparently).
Rideshare would seem to be a perfect application, predominantly urban and suburban short trips with lots of stopping and starting.
Now that they have made a version that is not so fugly and is also peppy, I wonder about a GR rendition, something that gets some tires more inclined to corner than roll easy, and an ICE that is a little more performance oriented.
5sec to 60mph/50mpg/500mi range would probably be good target objectives.

rob_s

04-13-2024, 11:02 AM

Makes some really good points about new LC VS 4R (and eventually Sequoia and Lexus) starting around 27:45

https://youtu.be/kmtbk0siRIM?si=LXfzZ80iEWTV0AlD

Darth_Uno

04-13-2024, 09:15 PM

GJM

04-13-2024, 09:30 PM

MGW

04-15-2024, 05:53 AM

The LC and Lexus GX have AWD, which is attractive if you live in snow country. Otherwise, the 4Runner, LC and Lexus GX seem awfully close.

Toyota sales a 4Runner that has AWD too. I believe it is the Premium.

Suvorov

04-15-2024, 07:54 AM

I too am surprised by the overlap. The big attraction for me to a LC is that my current 4RNR gets tight on space during my adventures with family. Unfortunately it looks like the newer LC will not be much if any bigger than the 4RNR, especially with so much room needed for batteries.

Stephanie B

04-15-2024, 08:05 AM

I am pretty unenthusiastic about enthusiasts fucking with batteries.

Or 1911s…

Coal Train

04-15-2024, 08:44 AM

Very good. I’ve been wondering what the LC and Lexus did better than the 4Runner. Seemed like there was a lot of overlap, especially when you get into the 4Runner’s higher trims. My wife and I were just talking about that today.

The LC and Lexus GX have AWD, which is attractive if you live in snow country. Otherwise, the 4Runner, LC and Lexus GX seem awfully close.
I cannot speak to the latest/upcoming iterations of the 4 Runner and the GX, but a couple years ago when we were looking for a new SUV for my wife there was a "noticeable" difference between the 4 Runner Limited and the GX. We went with the intention of buying a limited 4 Runner, all she needed to do was pick the color. However, the Toyota dealer had a 1 year old GX on the lot we test drove. They were both quality vehicles but I found the GX nicer in every way except in the looks department. The GX rode better, was slightly less underpowered, was more comfortable, had a better HVAC, was quieter, and was much better built. That is not to say that the 4 Runner was in any way bad, it was just that the GX was nicer. The GX was also more expensive new which is why we ended up in a 1 year old GX for ~same price as a new Limited 4 Runner.

I'm not sure how this relates to the newest offerings from Toyota/Lexus. In the loaner Lexi we have had during service appointments, Lexus seems to have gone to the "everything is controlled by this ridiculous dashboard iPad" user interface. I hope they avoid this with their actual SUV's but they probably won't.

Darth_Uno

04-15-2024, 05:22 PM

I cannot speak to the latest/upcoming iterations of the 4 Runner and the GX, but a couple years ago when we were looking for a new SUV for my wife there was a "noticeable" difference between the 4 Runner Limited and the GX. We went with the intention of buying a limited 4 Runner, all she needed to do was pick the color. However, the Toyota dealer had a 1 year old GX on the lot we test drove. They were both quality vehicles but I found the GX nicer in every way except in the looks department. The GX rode better, was slightly less underpowered, was more comfortable, had a better HVAC, was quieter, and was much better built. That is not to say that the 4 Runner was in any way bad, it was just that the GX was nicer. The GX was also more expensive new which is why we ended up in a 1 year old GX for ~same price as a new Limited 4 Runner.

I'm not sure how this relates to the newest offerings from Toyota/Lexus. In the loaner Lexi we have had during service appointments, Lexus seems to have gone to the "everything is controlled by this ridiculous dashboard iPad" user interface. I hope they avoid this with their actual SUV's but they probably won't.

Well, we're not in the market, she has a 2020 4Runner TRD Pro. And even that's mostly for looks (and she'll admit it), you don't need 4WD or AWD too often around here.

I've said elsewhere, possibly in this thread, that a newer "better" vehicle won't get us to Dollar General, Walmart or church any better. Buuuut if I was sitting on a pile of cash with nothing better to spend it on, we'd be looking at a 550 Overtrail.