Why not the .38 Special 158 grain LSWC?

[sharps54]

I understand the thought process behind using .38 wadcutters over modern hollow points or instead of something like the 158 grain LSWCHP +P in some revolvers but why are we using them over the standard pressure .38 158 grain LSWC? Especially once you get to “full power” 148 grain wadcutters meant for defense you aren’t saving much, if any, in recoil. I would think you would still get the straight line penetration we want from the LSWC load. That said I don’t have any first hand field experience (street or hunting) with the load so I figured I would ask.

I’m sure this has been covered somewhere and I missed it so a link to an existing post is fine.

[Noah]

I understand the thought process behind using .38 wadcutters over modern hollow points or instead of something like the 158 grain LSWCHP +P in some revolvers but why are we using them over the standard pressure .38 158 grain LSWC? Especially once you get to “full power” 148 grain wadcutters meant for defense you aren’t saving much, if any, in recoil. I would think you would still get the straight line penetration we want from the LSWC load. That said I don’t have any first hand field experience (street or hunting) with the load so I figured I would ask.

I’m sure this has been covered somewhere and I missed it so a link to an existing post is fine.


Anyone I can think of who talks about using wadcutters is using very soft recoiling stuff like Federal GMM?

[the Schwartz]

I understand the thought process behind using .38 wadcutters over modern hollow points or instead of something like the 158 grain LSWCHP +P in some revolvers but why are we using them over the standard pressure .38 158 grain LSWC? Especially once you get to “full power” 148 grain wadcutters meant for defense you aren’t saving much, if any, in recoil. I would think you would still get the straight line penetration we want from the LSWC load. That said I don’t have any first hand field experience (street or hunting) with the load so I figured I would ask.

I’m sure this has been covered somewhere and I missed it so a link to an existing post is fine.

There's little practical difference between the two. Both the wadcutter and the LSWC will tend towards straight line penetration with the wadcutter producing slightly more damage per unit length of distance traveled.

After that, hitting vital anatomy until achieving the desired result is probably a wiser perspective best addressed with quality training. JCN can offer helpful insight in that regard. :cool:

[03RN]

I often carry wn-swc in .38, .357, 45acp, and 45 colt.

My favorite swc load for the .38 is a max amount of be-86 behind a 158gr swc for 1000fps from a 4" gun

[WDR]

From a light snub, the light loaded HBWC target loads are easier to shoot well. Full power 158gr LSWC, or wadcutter loads or the +P versions will recoil a lot more in a small/light gun, which is why the HBWC target stuff is suggested for things like Airweight J's. From larger, heavier guns they start to make more sense, but at that point, the modern +P JHP loads or a LSWC-HP +P loads start making more sense than either the light HBWC or plain SWC.

I'd take a SWC shaped bullet over a round nose every day, if I couldn't use good JHP for some reason. You'll likely have a lot of penetration, but better too much than not enough, IMHO.

[sharps54]

So in absence of target wadcutters something like 158-grain-lswc-remington-performance-wheelgun (https://www.luckygunner.com/38-special-158-grain-lswc-remington-performance-wheelgun-50-rounds) could be a reasonable choice in an older or lighter revolver?

[Hambo]

So in absence of target wadcutters something like 158-grain-lswc-remington-performance-wheelgun (https://www.luckygunner.com/38-special-158-grain-lswc-remington-performance-wheelgun-50-rounds) could be a reasonable choice in an older or lighter revolver?

This would be another option.

https://www.luckygunner.com/38-special-110-gr-jhp-hydra-shok-federal-20-rounds

[RJ]

Following, as it's time for me to buy another box of .38 for my LCR.

I have been using Federal GMM since about 2021, for reasons which escape at the moment. I dimly recall Chuck Haggard (?) suggesting WC's out of a snubby, since HPs won't necessarily expand anyway, and the shape of a WC is better than a round nose bullet. Also, I believe there's a Lucky Gunner test video on WCs, in which the GMM was the highest velocity of the four he tested? So far the GMM is fine, but I am not thrilled to shoot my LCR "for fun". I do shoot a few rounds each month, but anything zippier than what I have is not desirable, for me, really.

Anyway, like I said, I'll keep quiet now, but am interested in the suggestions here.

[Bucky]

With NJ now supposedly issuing CCW licenses, I was recently wondering how a LSWC would work in that scenario, given the hollow point restrictions.

[sharps54]

This would be another option.

https://www.luckygunner.com/38-special-110-gr-jhp-hydra-shok-federal-20-rounds

Lucky Gunner’s testing of that 110 load showed an average penetration of 12.7” and zero expansion from a 2” barrel. What is the advantage of it over standard pressure 158 gr LSWC in a lightweight snub?

[willie]

In the past many people claimed that the swc's shoulder would perform the same function as the wc's wide front. However, examining swc's reveals that not all have a sharp shoulder. In some the shoulder is not a sharp edge but is rounded. Hence, a rounded shoulder diminishes desired cutting function found in shoulders with sharp edges. In the early 1960's I began studying gun related literature. Hobbyists and writers have been discussing using wc's for defense throughout the decades since then(and before). Their use was not universally accepted as a best practice.

[TiroFijo]

Or something like the Lee flat point cast 158 gr... it is very accurate at any 38 spl velocity range, and the nose profile is still OK for speed reloads.

https://fsreloading.com/image/cache/catalog/D/lee-precision-mold-6-cavity-358-158-rf90692-a3174-700x700.jpg

[Norville]

I believe several of our now departed SMEs, including DocGKR stated that the SWC pushes flesh aside similar to a RN, where the full WC cuts as it penetrates. There are some older multi page threads on this.

[sharps54]

I'll try to do a better search to look for those threads. I'm not arguing for the LSWC I'm trying to understand why its a bad choice, the round shoulders willie mentioned definitely make sense. I understand the reasons the LRN is a bad choice.

So would a proper cast LSWC, like you see in a hunting bullet, offset the negatives? Not that it would help me, I'm not handloading at the moment and if I can buy premium LSWC I can buy premium WC, I'm just curious.

[Norville]

I'll try to do a better search to look for those threads. I'm not arguing for the LSWC I'm trying to understand why its a bad choice, the round shoulders willie mentioned definitely make sense. I understand the reasons the LRN is a bad choice.

So would a proper cast LSWC, like you see in a hunting bullet, offset the negatives? Not that it would help me, I'm not handloading at the moment and if I can buy premium LSWC I can buy premium WC, I'm just curious.

See Wayne Dobbs’ post 38 and 40;

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?30080-Wadcutters-vs-Hollowpoints-for-snubnose-carry

[sharps54]

See Wayne Dobbs’ post 38 and 40;

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?30080-Wadcutters-vs-Hollowpoints-for-snubnose-carry

Thank you!

[TiroFijo]

Or something like the Lee flat point cast 158 gr... it is very accurate at any 38 spl velocity range, and the nose profile is still OK for speed reloads.

https://fsreloading.com/image/cache/catalog/D/lee-precision-mold-6-cavity-358-158-rf90692-a3174-700x700.jpg

Regarding accuracy at long range, I used to plink steel targets up to 200 m with this bullet. This cheap, plain base design with WW alloy works very well up to 1,150 fps with very minimal leading issues.

[Malamute]

I'll try to do a better search to look for those threads. I'm not arguing for the LSWC I'm trying to understand why its a bad choice, the round shoulders willie mentioned definitely make sense. I understand the reasons the LRN is a bad choice.

So would a proper cast LSWC, like you see in a hunting bullet, offset the negatives? Not that it would help me, I'm not handloading at the moment and if I can buy premium LSWC I can buy premium WC, I'm just curious.


The degree of sharpness of the edge of the nose on a SWC probably has some bearing on its effect on tissue. Theres still a significant difference in effect on animals with a flat point vs round nose bullet even if the edge isnt as sharp as we may prefer. I wont willingly use a RN bullet on any game animal if theres any possible choice to use something better. Ive been pretty well impressed with the effects of any of the various makes of SWC bullets Ive used on small game up to coyotes. RN bullets have left me saying a big WTF? after shooting animals with 45 auto 230 gr RN , 38 158 gr RN, 45 Colt RN, 44 spl RN. Dont these animals read the gun magazines and know how awesome all these loads are?

Being of somewhat dubious brightness, I tend to shoot most of my stuff at longer distances including to a couple hundred yards with 2" 38s. They do OK, better than most expect. I mostly use SWC loads, in part because its what I have the most of, and because they shoot fairly well at longer than common pistol ranges, as Wayne mentions in the linked posts.

[Shawn Dodson]

I'll try to do a better search to look for those threads. I'm not arguing for the LSWC I'm trying to understand why its a bad choice, the round shoulders willie mentioned definitely make sense. I understand the reasons the LRN is a bad choice.

So would a proper cast LSWC, like you see in a hunting bullet, offset the negatives? Not that it would help me, I'm not handloading at the moment and if I can buy premium LSWC I can buy premium WC, I'm just curious.

Also see: "The Full Wadcutter-- An Extremely Effective Bullet Design" by Fackler, on pages 6-7 in Volume 4 Number 2 of Wound Ballistics Review. (http://thinlineweapons.com/IWBA/1999-Vol4No2.pdf)

[willie]

I'll try to do a better search to look for those threads. I'm not arguing for the LSWC I'm trying to understand why its a bad choice, the round shoulders willie mentioned definitely make sense. I understand the reasons the LRN is a bad choice.

So would a proper cast LSWC, like you see in a hunting bullet, offset the negatives? Not that it would help me, I'm not handloading at the moment and if I can buy premium LSWC I can buy premium WC, I'm just curious.

Regardless of bullet shape, the 38 Spl round fired through a 2 inch barrel offers marginal performance. RN would rank last. Is it a toss up between the other two? Maybe.

[TiroFijo]

Also see: "The Full Wadcutter-- An Extremely Effective Bullet Design" by Fackler, on pages 6-7 in Volume 4 Number 2 of Wound Ballistics Review. (http://thinlineweapons.com/IWBA/1999-Vol4No2.pdf)

Those IWBA articles are sooo good...

[the Schwartz]

So would a proper cast LSWC, like you see in a hunting bullet, offset the negatives?

In a word, 'no'.

At typical ordnance velocities (>450fps), the temporary cavity produced by the LSWC's meplat is large enough (about 2.00 - 2.50 inches in diameter) that the shoulder of the LSWC will never make contact with the target medium rendering the shoulder's geometry and sharpness irrelevant in the wounding process. Where maximum cutting (shear) diameter is desired, a hardcast wadcutter with a BHN ≥16 is recommended to ensure that the leading edge of the wadcutter remains sharp along the entire length of the permanent cavity.

[TGS]

What does a BHN 16+ projectile look like after hitting auto sheet metal or auto glass?

[the Schwartz]

Lucky Gunner’s testing of that 110 load showed an average penetration of 12.7” and zero expansion from a 2” barrel. What is the advantage of it over standard pressure 158 gr LSWC in a lightweight snub?

All testing done in the Clear Ballistics Gel product should be taken with the proverbial 'grain of salt' especially where expanding designs (e.g.: JHPs) are being evaluated.

Due to the lower density of the CBG product (≈0.824 g/cm³), the significantly lower resulting dynamic pressure (which is what drives expansion in JHPs) at impact can result in a ''false negative'' test result where a JHP fails to expand when it actually would have expanded had it been fired into a valid soft tissue simulant having the correct density (1.040 ± 0.0020 g/cm³).

There are at present two such valid soft tissue simulants: Water (H2O) and properly shear-validated 10% concentration 250 Bloom Type-A gelatin.

[UNK]

All testing done in the Clear Ballistics Gel product should be taken with the proverbial 'grain of salt' especially where expanding designs (e.g.: JHPs) are being evaluated.

Due to the lower density of the CBG product (≈0.824 g/cm³), the significantly lower resulting dynamic pressure (which is what drives expansion in JHPs) at impact can result in a ''false negative'' test result where a JHP fails to expand when it actually would have expanded had it been fired into a valid soft tissue simulant having the correct density (1.040 ± 0.0020 g/cm³).

There are at present two such valid soft tissue simulants: Water (H2O) and properly shear-validated 10% concentration 250 Bloom Type-A gelatin.

Arent the hollow point lead projectile best left to 4” revolvers?

[the Schwartz]

Arent the hollow point lead projectile best left to 4” revolvers?

In my opinion, yes, reliable/acceptable LHP performance generally starts with 4'' revolver barrels.

Running a Winchester .38 Special 158-grain LSWCHP (W38SPD) from a 3.1'' Ruger SP101 produced robust expansion without a barrier but marginal expansion when fired through 4 layers of 16-ounce denim:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?57614-Vintage-Ammunition-Test-Winchester-38-Special-158-grain-LSWCHP-(W38SPD)

[the Schwartz]

What does a BHN 16+ projectile look like after hitting auto sheet metal or auto glass?

107470

[Navin Johnson]

What does a BHN 16+ projectile look like after hitting auto sheet metal or auto glass?

GKR was responding to a question about target wadcutters and auto glass, and he replied from memory (paraphrasing) about 9 inches of penetration from a 2 inch barrel (j-frame)

No doubt it was probably just a glob

[Hambo]

Lucky Gunner’s testing of that 110 load showed an average penetration of 12.7” and zero expansion from a 2” barrel. What is the advantage of it over standard pressure 158 gr LSWC in a lightweight snub?

Low recoil and it might expand. A SWC won't. I don't count on any JHP to work the way anyone says it will, but they might, and that's a good enough reason to carry them over non-expanding bullets.

[sharps54]

Low recoil and it might expand. A SWC won't. I don't count on any JHP to work the way anyone says it will, but they might, and that's a good enough reason to carry them over non-expanding bullets.

So you would carry the 110 load over 148 wadcutters?

One advantage, at least in theory, premium self defense ammunition has is that the quality control should be better and more consistent round to round.

[UNK]

So you would carry the 110 load over 148 wadcutters?

One advantage, at least in theory, premium self defense ammunition has is that the quality control should be better and more consistent round to round.

A lot of people including me dont. You really need to find the old wadcutter threads and decide for yourself. Theres a pic in there somewhere of a couple of shots on a dead deer. One of the shots was to the skull. It looked like the skull had been drilled and when it exited the other side of the skull brain that had been turned to pulp was oozing out. The wadcutters are less likely to deflect and just cut straight through. The rule is if you cant have expansion go for penetration. Theres another pic to go along with the skull pic of the deer shot in the rib cage. It drilled through the ribs on both sides then I think exited into the dirt under the deer.
There are a couple of fellows on here, both combat vets and they prefer hardcast. One of them Lost River has his own ammo company if he doesnt have what you want I think he will load it for you.
Im not an SME Im repeating what I have learned from SMEs here. I pocket carry a J frame. If I have to use it I expect its doing to be pretty up close and personal. Its not going to be a shot across a food court. A LEO on here who has studied fatal shootings has documentation of a pocket gun being used successfully against a drawn gun. Another SME on here has posted a video of himself doing a sub one second draw and shoot from a pocket. Youre not going to get to a pocket gun from a sitting position thats why some guys, usually a cop, ankle carry. Actually Lost River relayed a story to me about a time when he was a LEO and some scumbag approached his window when he was sitting in his patrol car. The scumbag lost the element of surprise whe LR drew an ankle carried J frame on him.
As I said search for the threads, theres a ton of info in there for you to decide for yourself.

[the Schwartz]

GKR was responding to a question about target wadcutters and auto glass, and he replied from memory (paraphrasing) about 9 inches of penetration from a 2 inch barrel (j-frame)

No doubt it was probably just a glob

This is also true of JHPs. Laminated automotive glass is hard on all designs, as it is a high hardness medium that chews up (via abrasion) the relatively 'soft' lead- and copper-based alloys used in handgun bullet construction as they pass through it at 800 - 1,400 fps.

[TiroFijo]

As a side note, if I was expecting any barrier I would choose something with more than five rounds capacity...

[TGS]

As a side note, if I was expecting any barrier I would choose something with more than five rounds capacity...

Well, besides the point that we don't get to choose when we have barriers or not...

...bullets that perform well through those barriers tend to perform well in actual shootings. It's a good standard to seek regardless if one is gifted enough to predict they'll never have to shoot through auto glass.

[Hambo]

So you would carry the 110 load over 148 wadcutters?

One advantage, at least in theory, premium self defense ammunition has is that the quality control should be better and more consistent round to round.

My preference is 1) barrier blind JHP, 2) JHP (HydraShok, Silvertip, LSWCHP, etc), 3) WC/SWC. My reasoning is this: back in the day we had Silvertips, HydraShok, and whatever else, and they stopped the clocks of many a bad guy. There are valid reasons for carrying WC, and I don't think you'll die based on which you choose.

[DocGKR]

Not departed, just incredibly busy working 12+ hour days.

As noted above, this thread has great information: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?30080-Wadcutters-vs-Hollowpoints-for-snubnose-carry

TGS's statement above is quite accurate and offers good guidance; the Schwartz has some good comments as well.

[Jim Watson]

In a word, 'no'.

At typical ordnance velocities (>450fps), the temporary cavity produced by the LSWC's meplat is large enough (about 2.00 - 2.50 inches in diameter) that the shoulder of the LSWC will never make contact with the target medium rendering the shoulder's geometry and sharpness irrelevant in the wounding process. Where maximum cutting (shear) diameter is desired, a hardcast wadcutter with a BHN ≥16 is recommended to ensure that the leading edge of the wadcutter remains sharp along the entire length of the permanent cavity.

That was the rationale of the LBT WFN (Wide Flat Nose) bullet. The little bit of ogive was supposed to hold up better at long range than a wadcutter and give more powder space, but the large diameter meplat did the work on man or beast.
The Lee mold in post 13 is pretty close.

I went to the LBT www and saw that their machine shop burned down on Christmas Eve last, destroying Veral Smith's purpose built equipment. At his age, they do not plan to build back.

[Lost River]

A lot of people including me dont. You really need to find the old wadcutter threads and decide for yourself. Theres a pic in there somewhere of a couple of shots on a dead deer. One of the shots was to the skull. It looked like the skull had been drilled and when it exited the other side of the skull brain that had been turned to pulp was oozing out. The wadcutters are less likely to deflect and just cut straight through. The rule is if you cant have expansion go for penetration. Theres another pic to go along with the skull pic of the deer shot in the rib cage. It drilled through the ribs on both sides then I think exited into the dirt under the deer.
There are a couple of fellows on here, both combat vets and they prefer hardcast. One of them Lost River has his own ammo company if he doesnt have what you want I think he will load it for you.
Im not an SME Im repeating what I have learned from SMEs here. I pocket carry a J frame. If I have to use it I expect its doing to be pretty up close and personal. Its not going to be a shot across a food court. A LEO on here who has studied fatal shootings has documentation of a pocket gun being used successfully against a drawn gun. Another SME on here has posted a video of himself doing a sub one second draw and shoot from a pocket. Youre not going to get to a pocket gun from a sitting position thats why some guys, usually a cop, ankle carry. Actually Lost River relayed a story to me about a time when he was a LEO and some scumbag approached his window when he was sitting in his patrol car. The scumbag lost the element of surprise whe LR drew an ankle carried J frame on him.
As I said search for the threads, theres a ton of info in there for you to decide for yourself.

Thanks for hitting me up for the conversation.

To jump right to the details.

I do produce a 158 grain poly-coat semi wadcutter in a .38 +P load. It is a true +P and not recommended for aluminum framed revolvers. It is fine for any .357 chambered guns.

Velocities as follows:

6" Security Six: 1200 FPS
4" Model 15: 1115
1 &7/8ths : 1020 FPS

There was another thread I read here recently where someone was inquiring about a 158 grain loads (maybe it was hot 148 wadcutters, I can't remember exactly), but I did not feel it was appropriate to bring up that I had what they were looking for. I am still dealing with some personal issues on the home front (that has literally been dragging on well over a year now), and have not paid to advertise here, so I did not want to overstep my place. I consider the majority of the people here to be friends I simply have not met yet (though I have talked to a number on the phone), and I appreciate that LL lets me discuss some things. I try to keep such things limited until my personal issues get resolved and I can buy an ad space and go full speed with the business.

That said, the above heavy SWC load is a smoker. I keep a 4" gun loaded with it, and there is a guy over on the 24hr Campfire who reported shooting Whitetail deer with the ammo. he stated complete penetration, not recovering the bullet.

In the interest of always being straight with people, if you are looking for J Frame ammo. This is not the best choice unless it is an all steel S&W. Not a Charter Arms, Rossi or similar. Frankly I found the recoil to be uncomfortable when I did my chrono testing. I suggest the standard or heavy wadcutters as an alternative for aluminum framed 5 shot snubbies.

Great load for a 2.5" Model 19 K frame though.

https://i.imgur.com/pbdFSteh.jpg

[Dov]

Thanks for hitting me up for the conversation.

To jump right to the details.

I do produce a 158 grain poly-coat semi wadcutter in a .38 +P load. It is a true +P and not recommended for aluminum framed revolvers. It is fine for any .357 chambered guns.

Velocities as follows:

6" Security Six: 1200 FPS
4" Model 15: 1115
1 &7/8ths : 1020 FPS

There was another thread I read here recently where someone was inquiring about a 158 grain loads (maybe it was hot 148 wadcutters, I can't remember exactly), but I did not feel it was appropriate to bring up that I had what they were looking for. I am still dealing with some personal issues on the home front (that has literally been dragging on well over a year now), and have not paid to advertise here, so I did not want to overstep my place. I consider the majority of the people here to be friends I simply have not met yet (though I have talked to a number on the phone), and I appreciate that LL lets me discuss some things. I try to keep such things limited until my personal issues get resolved and I can buy an ad space and go full speed with the business.

That said, the above heavy SWC load is a smoker. I keep a 4" gun loaded with it, and there is a guy over on the 24hr Campfire who reported shooting Whitetail deer with the ammo. he stated complete penetration, not recovering the bullet.

In the interest of always being straight with people, if you are looking for J Frame ammo. This is not the best choice unless it is an all steel S&W. Not a Charter Arms, Rossi or similar. Frankly I found the recoil to be uncomfortable when I did my chrono testing. I suggest the standard or heavy wadcutters as an alternative for aluminum framed 5 shot snubbies.

Great load for a 2.5" Model 19 K frame though.

https://i.imgur.com/pbdFSteh.jpg

What is polycoat? It's not like moly coated bullets is it? More like Nyclad?

[the Schwartz]

Not departed, just incredibly busy working 12+ hour days.

As noted above, this thread has great information: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?30080-Wadcutters-vs-Hollowpoints-for-snubnose-carry

TGS's statement above is quite accurate and offers good guidance; the Schwartz has some good comments as well.

This is good news, Doc, as I am pleased to hear that reports of your death have been greatly exaggerated. ;)

[Lost River]

What is polycoat? It's not like moly coated bullets is it? More like Nyclad?

The poly coat is not moly.

Here is some cut and paste info about it:

No lead is exposed to the environment
Leading of the bore is dramatically reduced, as is lube smoke
Higher velocities can be attained with coated bullets
Health benefits for the reloader, as there is no touching of bare lead
Reduced force required to seat and crimp because the bullets are slippery

Is 100% non abrasive and contains no PTFE or MOLY

They are completely safe to use in Glock's polygonal rifled barrels

Coating acts as a lubricant.

Short version is that in my T&E, I have found that I can get higher velocities using the poly coat, as compared to both jacketed and traditional hardcast.

The poly .38+P velocity as shown above is a perfect example. That is in the range of some .357 Magnum loads. Only through the use of modern propellants and coatings is that achieved

The same goes for a +P .40 I developed.

I have a 170 grain Poly-Coat semi-wadcutter that runs 1,200 FPS. That equals and/or surpasses some large manufacturers stated 10mm velocities. In a Glock 22, using a hardcast semi wadcutter design that has been poly-coated, it is a very deep penetrating load.

https://i.imgur.com/IJ7VrvFh.jpg

[Dov]

Thanks for the quick answer.

[Chuck Whitlock]

I do produce a 158 grain poly-coat semi wadcutter in a .38 +P load. It is a true +P and not recommended for aluminum framed revolvers. It is fine for any .357 chambered guns.

Velocities as follows:

6" Security Six: 1200 FPS
4" Model 15: 1115
1 &7/8ths : 1020 FPS

There was another thread I read here recently where someone was inquiring about a 158 grain loads (maybe it was hot 148 wadcutters, I can't remember exactly), but I did not feel it was appropriate to bring up that I had what they were looking for. I am still dealing with some personal issues on the home front (that has literally been dragging on well over a year now), and have not paid to advertise here, so I did not want to overstep my place. I consider the majority of the people here to be friends I simply have not met yet (though I have talked to a number on the phone), and I appreciate that LL lets me discuss some things. I try to keep such things limited until my personal issues get resolved and I can buy an ad space and go full speed with the business.

That said, the above heavy SWC load is a smoker. I keep a 4" gun loaded with it, and there is a guy over on the 24hr Campfire who reported shooting Whitetail deer with the ammo. he stated complete penetration, not recovering the bullet.

In the interest of always being straight with people, if you are looking for J Frame ammo. This is not the best choice unless it is an all steel S&W. Not a Charter Arms, Rossi or similar. Frankly I found the recoil to be uncomfortable when I did my chrono testing. I suggest the standard or heavy wadcutters as an alternative for aluminum framed 5 shot snubbies.

Great load for a 2.5" Model 19 K frame though.

https://i.imgur.com/pbdFSteh.jpg

Lost River,

How do you suppose this load would be from a 2 1/4" Ruger SP101?

[Chuck Whitlock]

Following, as it's time for me to buy another box of .38 for my LCR.

I have been using Federal GMM since about 2021, for reasons which escape at the moment. I dimly recall Chuck Haggard (?) suggesting WC's out of a snubby, since HPs won't necessarily expand anyway, and the shape of a WC is better than a round nose bullet. Also, I believe there's a Lucky Gunner test video on WCs, in which the GMM was the highest velocity of the four he tested? So far the GMM is fine, but I am not thrilled to shoot my LCR "for fun". I do shoot a few rounds each month, but anything zippier than what I have is not desirable, for me, really.

Anyway, like I said, I'll keep quiet now, but am interested in the suggestions here.

Rich,

I'll only be buying WC's (for carry) from Lost River or Georgia Arms (once they recover from the fire).

https://www.lostriverammocompany.com/product/38-Wadcutter-148-grainStandard-pressure-Wadcutter-100-RND

[Lost River]

Lost River,

How do you suppose this load would be from a 2 1/4" Ruger SP101?

An SP101 would be a good match. Those Rugers are stout guns and such a combo would be quite an effective pairing.

[Chuck Whitlock]

An SP101 would be a good match. Those Rugers are stout guns and such a combo would be quite an effective pairing.

Thanks for the quick reply!