Jeep 4xe hybrid

[JCN]

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It’s probably a big mistake to even consider this…

But range and power have always been my limiting factors considering Jeep performance…

Talk me out of this one…

https://www.jeep.com/wrangler/wrangler-4xe.html?TR=1&adid=554525234&bid=29699889&buytype=LF&channel=display&cid=142624660&dclid=CI2GvLvllYADFcbATwIdgG0JZw&pid=363548575&sid=5217075

[TGS]

It’s probably a big mistake to even consider this…

But range and power have always been my limiting factors considering Jeep performance…

Talk me out of this one…

Easy. It's a plug in "hybrid", meaning it's either-or, not an actual hybrid. If you run it on battery you only get 22 miles, and if you're driving on gas then you can only get worse mileage than a regular jeep since you're lugging around the dead weight of the battery and electric motor.

Plug-in hybrids only make sense for a small group of people that have very short commutes during the workweek and still need the car to routinely go on road trips over the weekend, where you can take advantage of being able to refuel at the pump. Regular hybrids and full EV make more sense for most people.

[JCN]

Easy. It's a plug in "hybrid", meaning it's either-or, not an actual hybrid. If you run it on battery you only get 22 miles, and if you're driving on gas then you can only get worse mileage than a regular jeep since you're lugging around the dead weight of the battery and electric motor.

The advertisement seemed to suggest you can use them both at the same time? That kind of hybrid approach has been a good pairing with a turbo engine to help acceleration while it’s spooling.

This is from the ad:

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What you originally described sounds like the E-save mode?

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[TGS]

It'll turn you into a communist.

(Damnit man, I'm trying to help you not buy it 🙂 )

[Norville]

My wig-fell loves her Grand Cherokee Trailhawk with the V8. She came home fuming the other day that if it disappeared, the only option is the PHEV. No, no no.

Once the battery is exhausted, you’ve got nothing but an underpowered Wrangler. Seek out a 392 if you want power - it’s stupid, but in a good way.

[Default.mp3]

The main problem I've read about the 4xe is that the battery is quite small, so once depleted, you are lugging around a lot of extra weight for no benefit, as you are no longer in hybrid mode, so the range will end up being shorter than a standard ICE Wrangler. The 4xe makes much more sense if you're trying to save gas while in-town and have the ability to charge easily, but not if you're trying to wring out more range on a road trip.

Range on an ICE Wrangler should be easy enough to fix, there are a bazillion ways to mount fuel cans to a Wrangler.

[HeavyDuty]

The description of eSave above seems to imply the ICE can be configured to motivate and charge the battery at the same time?

[HeavyDuty]

What I want to see in a hybrid: a hydrogen fuel cell plus a good sized electric motor and battery (Tesla sized), plug in capable but able to be charged by the fuel cell as you drive, plus regenerative charging. I think we will get there eventually.

[Wake27]

My wig-fell loves her Grand Cherokee Trailhawk with the V8. She came home fuming the other day that if it disappeared, the only option is the PHEV. No, no no.

Once the battery is exhausted, you’ve got nothing but an underpowered Wrangler. Seek out a 392 if you want power - it’s stupid, but in a good way.

I have a 2020 Trailhawk with the V8 and also love it. I think it’s pretty dumb that you can only get the TH in 4Xe now.

I don’t find the Wrangler’s range that impressive. My 2014 GC V6 would consistently have a low 400s range estimation when full and my V8 will do it with a fair amount of highway driving.

My old coworker has a newer diesel Wrangler that he loves. I don’t know why they couldn’t make it work in the GC but he often talked about the great mileage he got with it packed and towing dual jet skis.


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[0ddl0t]

I would not own any stellantis hybrid until seeing a positive 5+ year track record.

My sister had a ~45,000 mile plug in pacifica for a year and it was either in the shop or waiting for parts more than it was on the road. A few weeks after buying it she got to experience her first tow when it died pulling out of a parallel parking spot into a moderately trafficked uphill roadway. It had no propulsion at all, but was stuck "on," wouldn't shift into park or nuetral, and wouldn't engage the electronic parking brake. No amound of cycling the "push to start" button helped and she had to sit with her foot on the brake for 90 minutes until the tow truck came. It apparently was a known problem with a software fix, but chrysler didn't bother to do a recall so you only found out about it when blocking traffic... The Chrysler dealer was so backed up it took them a month just to look at it.

The plug-in battery failed a few months later, thankfully under warranty, but it took a few weeks to be diagnosed and another 6 weeks to get and would have cost $17,000 if we did not live in a CARB state with 10 year/150,000 mile hybrid warranties. Shortly after getting it back, Chrylser issued a recall for fires for which they had no remedy. They told her not to plug in the battery and not to park inside her garage in case it caught fire.

She sold it back to carmax shortly after, and 8 months later Stellantis did release a fix (https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-recalls-defects/recalled-chrysler-pacifica-hybrids-finally-get-a-fix-a1086718683/) for the fire recall.

[Dov]

Here is youtube about the system, I'd think a hybrid system would have some real benefits for offroading in certain situations considering electric motors give you max torque at 0 RPM.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ8kxtubkmc

[Dov]

Here is the actual review of it by Alex

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7u0ATQk2v0

[1911Nut]

I purchased a new 2023 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon last May. It's the 5th Jeep Wrangler I have owned in the past 27 years.

Prior to my purchase, every dealer I visited or spoke with in the greater Phoenix area had an overabundance of the 4XE Hybrids, and they didn't seem to be able to give them away. Tons of rebates and incentives.

No thanks, for the reasons already stated by other forum members.

[camel]

I’m wary of jeeps with a bunch of their issues. Not that they are bad. They just have maintenance issues looking at the lesser models of jeeps it’s not a premium on return on investment. That’s a lot of vehicles these days.

I would t trust this hybrid system without 10k upfront or a way to dump it.

[camel]

I would not own any stellantis hybrid until seeing a positive 5+ year track record.

My sister had a ~45,000 mile plug in pacifica for a year and it was either in the shop or waiting for parts more than it was on the road. A few weeks after buying it she got to experience her first tow when it died pulling out of a parallel parking spot into a moderately trafficked uphill roadway. It had no propulsion at all, but was stuck "on," wouldn't shift into park or nuetral, and wouldn't engage the electronic parking brake. No amound of cycling the "push to start" button helped and she had to sit with her foot on the brake for 90 minutes until the tow truck came. It apparently was a known problem with a software fix, but chrysler didn't bother to do a recall so you only found out about it when blocking traffic... The Chrysler dealer was so backed up it took them a month just to look at it.

The plug-in battery failed a few months later, thankfully under warranty, but it took a few weeks to be diagnosed and another 6 weeks to get and would have cost $17,000 if we did not live in a CARB state with 10 year/150,000 mile hybrid warranties. Shortly after getting it back, Chrylser issued a recall for fires for which they had no remedy. They told her not to plug in the battery and not to park inside her garage in case it caught fire.

She sold it back to carmax shortly after, and 8 months later Stellantis did release a fix (https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-recalls-defects/recalled-chrysler-pacifica-hybrids-finally-get-a-fix-a1086718683/) for the fire recall.

By the way. That’s not unheard of for the sprinter vans that Amazon has. Go to your Chrysler dealer and look at the vehicles parked in the back

[karandom]

They don't work in the cold:

https://www.thedrive.com/news/jeep-wrangler-4xe-owners-are-mad-over-ev-mode-that-wont-work-in-the-cold

[Dov]

I’m wary of jeeps with a bunch of their issues. Not that they are bad. They just have maintenance issues looking at the lesser models of jeeps it’s not a premium on return on investment. That’s a lot of vehicles these days.

I would t trust this hybrid system without 10k upfront or a way to dump it.

Yeah, there are cool things about some Dodge/Jeep/Chrysler but they aren't what I ever suggest to general person.

IMHO Dodge/Jeep is more like 1911, a really well tuned one can do things not likely to do with a Glock but generally your going to have lot more headaches with a 1911 vs Glock.

If you want the Glock of cars something like Toyota/Lexus or Honda IMO.

Note I don't hate Dodge or 1911, I've had both, but older I get more I like the Toyota/Glock stuff

[MistWolf]

Yeah, there are cool things about some Dodge/Jeep/Chrysler but they aren't what I ever suggest to general person.

IMHO Dodge/Jeep is more like 1911, a really well tuned one can do things not likely to do with a Glock but generally your going to have lot more headaches with a 1911 vs Glock.

If you want the Glock of cars something like Toyota/Lexus or Honda IMO.

Note I don't hate Dodge or 1911, I've had both, but older I get more I like the Toyota/Glock stuff

This is like saying Glocks are good for the casual shooter but won’t keep up with a 1911 when used hard. Toyotas will not keep up with Wranglers on the trail. Neither will the new Bronco. Consumer grade Independent Front Suspensions limit off-road capability.

Here’s one of the videos Brad of Trail Recon did about his 4Xe

https://youtu.be/T4bQ5KR4A38

It wasn’t long before Brad was disappointed in the performance of his 4Xe and sold it.

[mmc45414]

"Hybrid" is a term that gets to be pretty broad. IMO in this Parallel Hybrid implementation it just means redundancy and extra weight. The 2.0L turbo engine has significant torque (295 lb-ft @ 3,000rpm) and doesn't need more. The 22mi battery life is really just a token so you can tell your neighbor Karen that you bought a hybrid, just like her Prius.

I think the missed opportunity would be for a Serial Hybrid, just an electric car with an onboard genset. This would eliminate all of the complexities of the driveline, with just three or four motors that are able to vector power to individual wheels. Put a ~150mi battery where the transmission and driveshaft used to be, and a little smooth boxer twin ICE up under the hood (hidden underneath the newly available storage area, sure would be nice to have a lockable area with the top off...). Plug your destination into the nav system and the thing could fire up the genset early when it figured out you were going to bust through the available battery range. For lots of people the genset would probably run 5-10 times a year, and a rig like this could probably go 0-60 in four seconds. Should do well off road with a lower center of gravity, and should weigh and cost the same, trading the transmission and transfer case and driveshafts and differentials for a reasonable size battery and a little genset that doesn't need a big fuel tank.

[Default.mp3]

The 22mi battery life is really just a token so you can tell your neighbor Karen that you bought a hybrid, just like her Prius.Mmm, I would disagree with that, the median one-way commute in Maine is 9.8 miles, and that's the longest of any state. If you can charge at work, you could quite safely do the whole commute all-electric. If anything, that's the whole premise of a PHEV, commute locally on battery, with the ability to take long drives without having to worry about range anxiety because you also have an ICE.

[mmc45414]

Mmm, I would disagree with that, the median one-way commute in Maine is 9.8 miles, and that's the longest of any state. If you can charge at work, you could quite safely do the whole commute all-electric. If anything, that's the whole premise of a PHEV, commute locally on battery, with the ability to take long drives without having to worry about range anxiety because you also have an ICE.

Perhaps my perspective is twisted by my personal experience. Maybe someday every parking spot will have available charging (like the speakers at a drive-in theatre... :cool:).

[Dov]

This is like saying Glocks are good for the casual shooter but won’t keep up with a 1911 when used hard. Toyotas will not keep up with Wranglers on the trail. Neither will the new Bronco. Consumer grade Independent Front Suspensions limit off-road capability.

To me its all question of what trade offs you prioritize, someone who wants or really needs something where Jeep or 1911 make sense or they just like it better is not going to get any argument from me.

I would just want to make sure they understood the tradeoffs involved, I've met too many people that got off road package Pickup for the macho/cool factor and then they got made because dealer said rough riding suspension was working way it was supposed to. Or got something like a Scandium 357 mag for carry with magnums without really knowing what shooting that would be like.

I'd don't claim to be an expert for offroading, but I've known hard core people that used Tacos & IH Scout in addition to Jeep's of various vintages. Often in the same offroad club so I assume they all worked good enough?

Heck the Turtle Expedition has used full size Ford trucks because Ford was a sponsor, https://www.turtleexpedition.com/ though those aren't really stock vehicles AFAIK.

[0ddl0t]

The 22mi battery life is really just a token so you can tell your neighbor Karen that you bought a hybrid, just like her Prius.

The pacifica hybrid's ~30 mile EV range got my sister a carpool sticker, which cut 20 minutes from her rush hour commute (each way). It also got her an immediate $50/month slot in the downtown parking garage which normally has a 2 year waiting list and costs $100/month.

Too bad the car itself was so unreliable, because it was actually very nice to drive...

[Dov]

The pacifica hybrid's ~30 mile EV range got my sister a carpool sticker, which cut 20 minutes from her rush hour commute (each way). It also got her an immediate $50/month slot in the downtown parking garage which normally has a 2 year waiting list and costs $100/month.

Too bad the car itself was so unreliable, because it was actually very nice to drive...

Yeah I really like the ones I test drove, for me it was more comfortable than the older Lexus 300h I almost bought, just figured Pacifica would be headache maintenance wise.

[MistWolf]

To me its all question of what trade offs you prioritize, someone who wants or really needs something where Jeep or 1911 make sense or they just like it better is not going to get any argument from me.

I would just want to make sure they understood the tradeoffs involved, I've met too many people that got off road package Pickup for the macho/cool factor and then they got made because dealer said rough riding suspension was working way it was supposed to. Or got something like a Scandium 357 mag for carry with magnums without really knowing what shooting that would be like.

I'd don't claim to be an expert for offroading, but I've known hard core people that used Tacos & IH Scout in addition to Jeep's of various vintages. Often in the same offroad club so I assume they all worked good enough?

Heck the Turtle Expedition has used full size Ford trucks because Ford was a sponsor, https://www.turtleexpedition.com/ though those aren't really stock vehicles AFAIK.

There's no doubt Tacos and 4Runners are used off-road in some hardcore stuff. However, the IFS makes them subject to roll-overs in certain conditions that solid axle rigs have little trouble with. There's a reason solid axle rigs are more prevalent off-road, especially as the trails get more difficult.

I didn't bring up other solid axle rigs because this thread was started to discuss the Wrangler 4Xe. Wranglers are not the only well performing rigs off-road, but they are the most capable off-road Jeep ever made straight off the show-room floor, especially with the Rubicon package.

The IH Scout has solid axles and is more than capable on difficult trails. The only reason there are so few out there is that few were made to begin with. Vintage "short wheel base" also have solid axles and are really good on the trail. Other Jeeps with solid front and rear also do well. Bottom line is, most solid axle 4x4s outperform IFS 4x4s in technical sections.

My argument is, if the Glock is the Toyota 4x4 of the pistol world, that means the Glock doesn't stand up to anything more than trips to the range. Jeep Wranglers may not be the best commuter vehicle, but there is no other vehicle that can keep up with it on challenging trails. I'm talking about stock rigs to keep things comparable.

ETA- "When it comes to modified rigs, Toyotas are kinda like modified 1911s." I take this back. It's a poor analogy.

[Dov]

There's no doubt Tacos and 4Runners are used off-road in some hardcore stuff. However, the IFS makes them subject to roll-overs in certain conditions that solid axle rigs have little trouble with. There's a reason solid axle rigs are more prevalent off-road, especially as the trails get more difficult.

I didn't bring up other solid axle rigs because this thread was started to discuss the Wrangler 4Xe. Wranglers are not the only well performing rigs off-road, but they are the most capable off-road Jeep ever made straight off the show-room floor, especially with the Rubicon package.

The IH Scout has solid axles and is more than capable on difficult trails. The only reason there are so few out there is that few were made to begin with. Vintage "short wheel base" also have solid axles and are really good on the trail. Other Jeeps with solid front and rear also do well. Bottom line is, most solid axle 4x4s outperform IFS 4x4s in technical sections.

My argument is, if the Glock is the Toyota 4x4 of the pistol world, that means the Glock doesn't stand up to anything more than trips to the range. Jeep Wranglers may not be the best commuter vehicle, but there is no other vehicle that can keep up with it on challenging trails. I'm talking about stock rigs to keep things comparable. When it comes to modified rigs, Toyotas are kinda like modified 1911s.

Thanks, I learned something from that!

I wasn't aware of that aspect of tradeoffs for axles off road. I've see the arguments about rear axles for tow vehicles on pavement, but don't recall anything specific for off roading other than mods for more articulation.

And I get you don't like analogy I made, I meant it as a more casual comparison as Glock=solid choice for most anyone vs 1911=good choice for a smaller sub set of shooters.

I agree with you completely about Jeep, especially Rubicon. I wanted a Rubicon for years but honestly had no need for that capability and didn't want the downsides for daily driver.

[Bio]

Nevermind my point had already been covered.