New Trijicon RMR/SRO Hybrid

[DaBigBR]

107247

Saw this making the rounds on social media today and didn't see a thread here yet. I have heard rumors of something new coming from Trijicon but this does not match what I had heard. I suspect there will be issues with irons forward configurations.

And then there's the reticle...

Thoughts?

[YVK]

The worst window size among comparable size optics is retained. Possible buis interference. The worst battery compartment access is retained too. No more thoughts at the moment.

[HCM]

The worst window size among comparable size optics is retained. Possible buis interference. The worst battery compartment access is retained too. No more thoughts at the moment.

Chatter is the window is supposed to be larger / SRO Sized but with the RMR shape for durability.



Otherwise… the king of cross threading battery cap appears to remain.

[DaBigBR]

Battery appears to be top loading a la SRO. Surely that is preferable to the RMR battery access.

As I look at it again, look how narrow it is on the slide... What do we bet they are doubling down on the RMRcc mounting pattern? That would be...just awful.

[GJM]

Trijicon would be far better off to just private label Holosun pistol optics.

[YVK]

Battery appears to be top loading a la SRO. Surely that is preferable to the RMR battery access.



I recently had to change a battery on SRO in the field. I pity those who have to do it without having SRO battery cap tool available. Better than RMR, yup, at least it has that.

[GyroF-16]

I recently had to change a battery on SRO in the field. I pity those who have to do it without having SRO battery cap tool available. Better than RMR, yup, at least it has that.

Speaking of an SRO battery cap tool…
Who has recommendations?
A DuckDuckGo search yielded this, which looks appealing:
https://hammy3dprints.com/products/battery-cap-tool-for-trijicon-sro

But I’m looking for recommendations from guys who have used tools for this task.

[Exiledviking]

Speaking of an SRO battery cap tool…
Who has recommendations?
A DuckDuckGo search yielded this, which looks appealing:
https://hammy3dprints.com/products/battery-cap-tool-for-trijicon-sro

But I’m looking for recommendations from guys who have used tools for this task.https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?47729-Trijicon-SRO-Battery-Cover-Removal-Tool

[Lon]

Speaking of an SRO battery cap tool…
Who has recommendations?
A DuckDuckGo search yielded this, which looks appealing:
https://hammy3dprints.com/products/battery-cap-tool-for-trijicon-sro

But I’m looking for recommendations from guys who have used tools for this task.

I bought that a few weeks ago. I’ll take some pics when I get home.

[GyroF-16]

I bought that a few weeks ago. I’ll take some pics when I get home.

Thanks! The (apparently) metal one mentioned in the thread linked above seems decent, but the “driver” (vs. “lever”) design of the one I linked is appealing to me, assuming it works well. Just wondering if anyone has actually used it.
Lon - have you removed & replaced a battery with it yet?

[Lon]

Thanks! The (apparently) metal one mentioned in the thread linked above seems decent, but the “driver” (vs. “lever”) design of the one I linked is appealing to me, assuming it works well. Just wondering if anyone has actually used it.
Lon - have you removed & replaced a battery with it yet?

I tried it out once just to see if it worked. I’ll do some more messing around with it tonight and post pics and maybe a short video.

[YVK]

Speaking of an SRO battery cap tool…
Who has recommendations?
A DuckDuckGo search yielded this, which looks appealing:
https://hammy3dprints.com/products/battery-cap-tool-for-trijicon-sro

But I’m looking for recommendations from guys who have used tools for this task.

I have the one mentioned in a linked thread. Works reasonably well.

[GyroF-16]

Lon, YVK - thanks to both of you for the info and (potentially) more review & feedback.

[TAZ]

I think the only thing missing is going to be a third footprint from Trijicon.


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[Clusterfrack]

I recently had to change a battery on SRO in the field. I pity those who have to do it without having SRO battery cap tool available. Better than RMR, yup, at least it has that.

Yeah, I pity the fool without the tool.

https://thesrotool.com

[Pnut]

I have the SROTOOL and it works great! There’s a thread about it here somewhere, but I couldn’t find it. I had to mod it slightly to make it PERFECT.

The contacting surfaces were a little rough and could scratch the aluminum battery cover, so I polished it up a bit with scotchbrite. I also drew hash marks on the top surface to easily reference where the blades were that key into the cover.
107267107268

[BWT]

Trijicon would be far better off to just private label Holosun pistol optics.

Apparently holster compatibility is a problem with the Holosun’s.

Ben made a video and endorsed CHWPS for that reason.

It’s good to see more Trijicon offerings… hopefully they hear the enclosed emitter chanting.

[DaBigBR]

Holster fit is off with which Holosuns? The 507comp, MAYBE, but only in the 6354DO (which is the holster Ben Stoeger is talking about in the video I believe you are referencing). 507comp compatibility is not an issue in the 6XXXRDS stuff per several other sources.

[1911Nut]

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?47729-Trijicon-SRO-Battery-Cover-Removal-Tool

The one I purchased and wrote about in April 2021 has continued to serve me well with three different SRO's. Patience is the key, and I will be interested in learning how this newer version works.

[Tokarev]

Does anyone want an open emitter in nearly 2024?

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[Lon]

@Gyro-F16

Pics:
107275
107276

Video:

https://youtube.com/shorts/21dn8c_cTcw?feature=share

You won’t be able to overtighten it. It’ll snap before that happens.

[HCM]

Does anyone want an open emitter in nearly 2024?

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If they do, they want a window bigger than a postage stamp and glass quality better than a hotel door peephole.

[HCM]

@Gyro-F16

Pics:
107275
107276

Video:

https://youtube.com/shorts/21dn8c_cTcw?feature=share

You won’t be able to overtighten it. It’ll snap before that happens.

IME the issues with the SRO battery cap are cross threading and tools like undersized screwdrivers damaging the cross slots on the cap rather than over tightening.

I do prefer the form factor of this to the metal SRO tool.

[Pnut]

To avoid the dreaded cross threading, I always screw in reverse first until I feel the BUMP of the threads mating up. Then I begin screwing down. I also put a dab of dielectric grease on the thread. It smooths up the process, adds an extra bit of waterproofing, and is O-ring safe.

[GearFondler]

The RMR window size is perfectly fine... It's the rear deck of the body which covers the lower 5th of the window which is the problem.
They raised the window on this one to be even with the deck so it should be the equal of the Holosun carry options now.

[JCN]

Clusterfrack this thread got me Googling and I found and ordered a couple of these to stow in range bags and my car.


$10

Screwdriver bit format for use in Fat Wrenches or similar. Thought RJ might appreciate something like this that can be properly torqued and not over tightened.

https://www.wecan3dprintthat.com/products/trijicon-sro-battery-tool

107283


$15

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1741569-REG/trijicon_ac30007_sro_battery_cap_tool.html/accessories

107284

[GyroF-16]

Thanks, Lon

I just ordered one - I like the form factor as well.

[RJ]

To avoid the dreaded cross threading, I always screw in reverse first until I feel the BUMP of the threads mating up. Then I begin screwing down. I also put a dab of dielectric grease on the thread. It smooths up the process, adds an extra bit of waterproofing, and is O-ring safe.

Excellent reminder. I did just that installing a set of Challis bushings in my 1911 yesterday.

On topic, this new optic uses the same battery cap design as the SRO, yes? Kinda looks like it, just wasn't 100% sure. So for anyone who would know, does Holosun have a patent or something on the side battery tray design? I mean, if not, why not just copy that, if you are going to design a new RMR? I admit I have zero experience with the cap on an SRO, so I don't know how well (or not) the cap design is thought of. Maybe it works great. Seems weird there are special tools for it, though. That seems...suboptimal. Just curious, is all.

[DaBigBR]

I'm curious if this is a 1632. The width of the optic relative to the slide makes me think this thing is narrow. Why not go with a side load? It's really hard to figure out why Trijicon does what it does

[Tokarev]

does Holosun have a patent or something on the side battery tray design?

I don't think so. Primary Arms has the battery compartment on the side on the RS-10.

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[Clusterfrack]

Clusterfrack this thread got me Googling and I found and ordered a couple of these to stow in range bags and my car.


$10

Screwdriver bit format for use in Fat Wrenches or similar. Thought RJ might appreciate something like this that can be properly torqued and not over tightened.

https://www.wecan3dprintthat.com/products/trijicon-sro-battery-tool

107283


$15

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1741569-REG/trijicon_ac30007_sro_battery_cap_tool.html/accessories

107284

Looks good.

What pisses me off is Trijicon selling a plastic tool for $15 and not including one with every SRO.

[HCountyGuy]

Years late and dollars short.

“BuT aT lEaSt It’S nOt ChInEsE!”

Aaaaaand? Innovation is innovation, and Holosun has been working the hell out of that angle and holding up particularly well.

With the circle-dot reticle with the new RMR, is it Holosun’s turn to sue Trijicon?

[JRV]

With the circle-dot reticle with the new RMR, is it Holosun’s turn to sue Trijicon?

Pretty sure “it emits a dot with a circle around it” is long dead as “prior art.”

I continue to be baffled by Trijicon’s choices. This, after the RMRcc, after releasing an optic specifically disclaimed for duty/carry use, after choosing not to update their duty optic line for YEARS…

[Gmac]

Interesting. I had heard recently they would be coming out with an “ENCLOSED, SRO window with RMR footprint.” Looks like 2/3 were right but doesn’t seem mind blowing.

[HeavyDuty]

The RMR window size is perfectly fine... It's the rear deck of the body which covers the lower 5th of the window which is the problem.

One of the reasons I like the RMRcc.

[TC215]

Interesting. I had heard recently they would be coming out with an “ENCLOSED, SRO window with RMR footprint.” Looks like 2/3 were right but doesn’t seem mind blowing.

Trijicon is supposed to be coming out with an enclosed emitter optic as well.

Allegedly.

[DMF13]

In a way this makes sense, but WAY late.

Agencies want battery swaps without having to remove, remount, and re-zero the optic.

Many agencies won't buy optics from China.

Agency contracts help with private sector sales, and . . .

Many individuals want battery swaps without having to remove, remount, and re-zero the optic.

Many individuals won't buy optics from China.

Both want a larger usable window.

So this sort of makes sense. What doesn't make sense is why they didn't do it four years ago, when developing the SRO.

[Tokarev]

Many agencies won't buy optics from China.

Many individuals won't buy optics from China.

Which is why Holosun should set up a final assembly shop here in the U.S.

They could sell these "assembled in America" optics as part of a premium line or maybe just transition all sales to American assembly. They could probably move to making optic housings in the States and assemble optics with a mix of domestic and imported parts.

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[HCM]

Which is why Holosun should set up a final assembly shop here in the U.S.

They could sell these "assembled in America" optics as part of a premium line or maybe just transition all sales to American assembly. They could probably move to making optic housings in the States and assemble optics with a mix of domestic and imported parts.

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SIG would probably sue them for stealing SIG’s scam.

[Tokarev]

SIG would probably sue them for stealing SIG’s scam.Yeah maybe.

Holosun does have a law enforcement version of the 509T. Also the EPS I believe. But these are standard Chinese products that are going through a couple additional QC checks. I think the market would welcome the additional step of US assembly.

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[Trukinjp13]

I’m game. Rmr is still my favorite. So call me whatever y’all want.

This seems like the Rmr type 3 that was talked about years ago though lmao.

And F yeah I’d rather buy American. Especially supporting a Michigan company whose products I’ve had great luck with.


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[Archer1440]

Aaron Cowan will be premiering two new Trijicon optics on August 1 for his Patreon subscribers, so I guess we'll see what they are doing soon.

[dontshakepandas]

Aaron Cowan will be premiering two new Trijicon optics on August 1 for his Patreon subscribers, so I guess we'll see what they are doing soon.

I would guess this is the other one.

107572

[YVK]

Interesting choice to stay with screws rather than a cross-clamp. For me with this type of RDS it is a pass but hopefully, for Trijicon's sake, this thing takes some market share from other closed emitters.

[dontshakepandas]

Interesting choice to stay with screws rather than a cross-clamp. For me with this type of RDS it is a pass but hopefully, for Trijicon's sake, this thing takes some market share from other closed emitters.

Agreed. That seems like a lot of leverage/force to be applying to those screws, but I can see it being a popular option for people that already have their slides milled for an RMR and don't want to use a plate.

[Archer1440]

Properly designed RMR slide cuts and plates have recoil bosses that fit into the RMR body. Example, HK plates for the VP9.

I predict considerable gnashing of teeth around here when the prices are announced. But it’s great to see an American made option in this space.

[Ndbbm]

I’m kind of interested in these, I was holding off on replacing a holosun scs, I used as a gateway for a pistol red dot for work. I’m not really sure which one I’m interested in. Just looking for a slightly larger window and have an interest in a larger dot. I found that while I liked just the circle on the holosun that in bad lighting with a wml and light coming back the single dot worked better for my eye.

For what it’s worth, during the work red dot school (I think there were 10 or 12 in that class) we watched 4 acros have condensation problems that completely fogged the lens over. The problem wasn’t seen with the open emitter optics, combination of holosun and RMRs. A fire marshal that was in the class has the acro control buttons beginning to fail as well. Aimpoint has been good with getting them fixed. Between that and they don’t conceal so well on my body, I’m not super must have a closed emitter.

Jason

[stomridertx]

We have to be fair here. We bitched at them for creating another new footprint with the RMR CC, so them returning to the RMR footprint on this is probably a response to that backlash. They are used to being the standard, so they are not going to go with a Holosun or Aimpoint Acro footprint, probably out of sheer defiance of ceding any ground to another manufacturer in any way. If they create yet another crossbolt standard, then they are back to being blasted for creating another footprint. We backed them into a corner and they are fighting from that corner. Pulling off a closed emitter on a RMR footprint may make that footprint keep its dominance if they don't make the mistake of pricing this thing too crazy high.

[GJM]

The Vegas odds are that Trijicon will screw this up, they are the new Surefire in that regard.

107573

[YVK]

Properly designed RMR slide cuts and plates have recoil bosses that fit into the RMR body. Example, HK plates for the VP9.

I just paid $125 to get a broken SRO screw out of a directly milled CZ slide. There's about half of a thread that remains in that screw hole. In my book that slide is on its last leg although that leg my last a year or so. If I was rds boss, or at least rds forum moderator, I'd demand cross clamps on all of them.

[Archer1440]

I just paid $125 to get a broken SRO screw out of a directly milled CZ slide. There's about half of a thread that remains in that screw hole. In my book that slide is on its last leg although that leg my last a year or so. If I was rds boss, or at least rds forum moderator, I'd demand cross clamps on all of them.

Did the mill job on that particular slide incorporate the RMR/SRO bosses?

I agree that ACRO style cross clamps are the way forward, by the way. But, to be fair, there is a huge infrastructure of existing RMR pattern guns out there.

Now I know you won't read the following- TLDR for you- ;) but some here might find it of interest:

Back in 1983, my former employer (now one of my technical consulting clients) created a new patented fitting for Olympic bow limbs to fit onto risers. That fitting uses a dovetail and spring detent (basically to keep the limbs from launching off the riser if a string broke, which back in the days of Kevlar strings was every 3000 shots or so, but never happens anymore with Dyneema strings). It was simple and effective. Today, with the patent expired, it's the "industry standard" and every manufacturer including the original makes their version of that fitting- so in theory you can buy a limb from one maker and a riser from another and mix them (with various, often crappy results- sort of like mounting a Weaver pattern scope foot onto a 1913 rail, without the ability to shove it forward in the slot).

24 years ago, I helped develop a much better system (from an accuracy standpoint) for the originator company, which immediately set new world records and was used to win the 2000 Olympic Games, but "ham and egger" users who don't follow instructions tended to jack it up when making adjustments. Demonstrably, "too complicated" for the unwashed. Production ceased after a few years. The original system carried on.

About 12 years ago the company developed a variation on the original system that is better in many ways, but it requires dedicated limbs and riser fittings. However, the inertia in the marketplace means you typically see it being used more by top competitors- the "ham and eggers", who are the vast majority of consumers, still tend to gravitate to the old system because of interoperability, despite the demonstrated superiority of the newer system (which to be fair, is of little advantage in the hands of a D class archer anyway) .

What the heck is my point with all this?

Trijicon seemingly finds themselves in the position of the originator who can't or won't try to move on from their "good enough at the time" system. Aimpoint arguably has created a better way. Others have their own systems that don't quite work with others. And so, the RDS today is where Olympic bows were circa 1974, with at least five different mounting systems and little interoperability between them.

Inevitably one system will likely be adopted. Eventually, the industry will either arrive at a standard of its own volition, or be forced to adopt a standard by contract momentum.

But, not today.

[TC215]

I would guess this is the other one.

107572


https://i.imgur.com/bTY1lTk.jpg

[Tokarev]

https://i.imgur.com/bTY1lTk.jpgPretty interesting. I wish the pics were clearer. I am really curious about the mounting system. If it does fit securely to the RMR cut without a plate it will be a "game changer."

I assume price will be pretty close to the ACRO.

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[YVK]

Did the mill job on that particular slide incorporate the RMR/SRO bosses?



Is "yes and no" an acceptable answer? Shadow 2 slides are rather narrow. With direct milling, I think this one was done by the Cajun, there are bosses but they are literally at the edge of a pocket and are small. More like half-bosses, probably not a whole lot of support although I presume they provide some.

[JCN]

Pretty interesting. I wish the pics were clearer. I am really curious about the mounting system. If it does fit securely to the RMR cut without a plate it will be a "game changer."

I assume price will be pretty close to the ACRO.

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Agreed! Looks like the mounting screws are torqued from the sides rather than the top.

Which is a rather innovative solution for getting around the limitation of their footprint.

I'd be interested in something like this. It's an untapped market for RMR cut slides to get an enclosed emitter.

[JCN]

Is "yes and no" an acceptable answer? Shadow 2 slides are rather narrow. With direct milling, I think this one was done by the Cajun, there are bosses but they are literally at the edge of a pocket and are small. More like half-bosses, probably not a whole lot of support although I presume they provide some.

I think it's the lack of edge support of wider optics on narrow slides that allows more rocking of the optics and more stress on the metal of the screws.

After having a number of optics fail on direct mill Shadow 2s, I went to fully supported plate systems and have had good durability with that.

[TC215]

https://i.imgur.com/fR0oJRE.jpg

[GJM]

The RCR is listed at 1.95 ounces. That is not a feature.

[WobblyPossum]

Closer to the ACRO (2.1 oz) than the 509T (1.72 oz). At least it’s lighter than the ACRO.

[GJM]

Closer to the ACRO (2.1 oz) than the 509T (1.72 oz). At least it’s lighter than the ACRO.

The weight seems like the second worst feature, with the attachment screws being the worst feature.

[HCM]

The closed emitter, the RCR.

107586

[EVP]

Excellent, I look forward to seeing more info about it.

[WDR]

The Vegas odds are that Trijicon will screw this up, they are the new Surefire in that regard.

107573

I wonder how you get an accurate torque reading with something like that...

[Tokarev]

https://i.imgur.com/fR0oJRE.jpgInteresting that Trijicon kept the forward extension in the front window. This seems to be one of the least popular features of the SRO. Especially amongst those running a rear sight in front.

With that said, Tim Herron says the SRO is easier to track the dot with that the 507Comp. He says the slightly bigger gap between the emitter and the window translates into less jumping of the dot in recoil.

I do like the little BUIS line on top. Nifty little feature.

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[JCN]

I wonder how you get an accurate torque reading with something like that...

Could do it the old fashioned way!

2 inch rod… 5 pound weight = 10 inch pounds

Could hook an Allen key in the slot and use a trigger weight gauge.

[DaBigBR]

I heard about the RCR a few weeks ago, including that it was RMR footprint and enclosed. I have been pondering since then about the attachment method. My first guesses were either very long screws/shafts or a very long wrench/bit. Has anybody seen definitively that capstan screws will be used? Every image I have seen is too blurry to tell.

[JRV]

I heard about the RCR a few weeks ago, including that it was RMR footprint and enclosed. I have been pondering since then about the attachment method. My first guesses were either very long screws/shafts or a very long wrench/bit. Has anybody seen definitively that capstan screws will be used? Every image I have seen is too blurry to tell.

My completely uneducated guess is either a two-part system with really tall screw heads on what are basically adapter screws that accept the “true” mounting interface screws from the side… or capstan screws.

Looks like we’ll find out soon. I am impressed at the dedication to not using a dovetail.

[Tokarev]

I am impressed at the dedication to not using a dovetail.

I wonder if a Glock MOS option is possible.

I guess I'm not shocked at Trijicon's choice since the RMR is the defacto standard optic cut. The limiting factor will still continue to be the length of the screw on the right. Anything longer than about a tenth of an inch will interfere with the extractor spring or extractor, depending on which particular firearm.



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[El Cid]

https://i.imgur.com/bTY1lTk.jpg

I hope they offer larger dot sizes than the 3.25 shown there. I took GJM’s advice about the 6.5moa dot with weapon lights and have been super pleased.

[Lon]

If they’re smart, they’ll come out with an ACRO footprint RCR model down the road. I get why they went RMR footprint and it makes sense. But coming out with an ACRO footprint also makes sense. The top two (I think) footprints out there for their target consumer base.

[Archer1440]

I do like the little BUIS line on top. Nifty little feature.



Lots of dialed-in RMR users put a skunk stripe along the saddle as a backup indexing aid in case the things ever go down. You can do good work even at extended distances with a properly indexed RMR using that and the "horns". Learned that lesson from Erick Gelhaus, along with many other lessons.

[Trukinjp13]

Lots of dialed-in RMR users put a skunk stripe along the saddle as a backup indexing aid in case the things ever go down. You can do good work even at extended distances with a properly indexed RMR using that and the "horns". Learned that lesson from Erick Gelhaus, along with many other lessons.

I always set the head in the horns lol. Worked well and was fast.

509 mrd the rmr will direct mount. So take a plate like fcd with proper length screws and how the plate sets into factory milled section she will clamp down nice and tight. I have the chpws deal on mine because I got it dirt cheap. Its okay. I’d prefer the steel and girth of the fcd personally.


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[DaBigBR]

Sticking with the RMR footprint seems like what we should expect. I just don't see them capitulating and using somebody else's pattern. They didn't do it with the MRO, they didn't do it with the RMRcc, and they aren't doing so here at launch. I'm curious if the odd screw system would somehow allow a very thin plate with a Zev post or T-nut or something to allow you to add an Acro, 509T, or other cross-bolt type plate. I just can't see them doing it, though.

We can dream, I guess.

I have to think different dot sizes are coming. The commitment to the 3.25 dot would imply a 1.0/3.25/6.5 array instead of the SRO's 1.0/2.5/5.0. Also curious that the circle/dot from the RMR HD isn't here. I don't have any interest in a circle/dot, but why not include it in both new optics?

I will say that one thing I like about Trijicon on new products is they generally don't tease them super early so hopefully we'll see these in the wild sooner than later.

[Erick Gelhaus]

Regarding footprints - yes, for open emitters most have gravitated to the RMR footprint, even though I’ll see the occasional use of Leupold’s on a new design;
I have not yet anyone duplicate the 509T footprint, no one;
At least six, if not seven, enclosed optics have come out with footprints that match or are pretty damn close to Aimpoint’s.

Regardless, I look for to seeing these on others’ guns.

[stomridertx]

If they’re smart, they’ll come out with an ACRO footprint RCR model down the road. I get why they went RMR footprint and it makes sense. But coming out with an ACRO footprint also makes sense. The top two (I think) footprints out there for their target consumer base.

That means Trijicon essentially admits that Aimpoint, their biggest competitor in the contract space, came out with a better mounting system than them and they will concede and adopt it. Does that sound like Trijicon to you?
When they launched the MRO, it didn't come with a T1 interface and it very easily could have.

[stomridertx]

Regarding footprints - yes, for open emitters most have gravitated to the RMR footprint, even though I’ll see the occasional use of Leupold’s on a new design;
I have not yet anyone duplicate the 509T footprint, no one;
At least six, if not seven, enclosed optics have come out with footprints that match or are pretty damn close to Aimpoint’s.

Regardless, I look for to seeing these on others’ guns.

They should probably rethink that, because the 509t would allow them to make a smaller optic. All of the Acro footprint dots are noticeably larger. Let's put a reduced size pic rail on slides and be done with it.

[Erick Gelhaus]

They should probably rethink that, because the 509t would allow them to make a smaller optic. All of the Acro footprint dots are noticeably larger. Let's put a reduced size pic rail on slides and be done with it.

I only pointed out what the manufacturers are doing. And, who should re-think it?

[stomridertx]

I only pointed out what the manufacturers are doing. And, who should re-think it?

I'm not challenging what you said, you are right. Steiner, CHPWS, and a lot of mid tier dots are coming out with the Acro footprint and no one is copying the 509t. I'm just stating my opinion that I think they are chasing the wrong horse as I think copying the Acro is not going to compete against it. As much as Holosun copies, with the 509t I think they were smart in making their enclosed emitter optics smaller than the Acro at the cost of having to make their own footprint. The 509t has plate and optic cut options just as plentiful as the Acro.

[sparky-kb]

I wonder how you get an accurate torque reading with something like that...

I wonder if it isn't mechanically limited somehow based on the design. I'm guessing it's engineered in a way that following the installation instructions and using loctite will get you into an acceptable torque window without a torque wrench. Something to do with the hole spacing on the screw head, counting rotations or holes used, and hitting that acceptable range once the rod hits the sight body after x amount of turns/holes used would be my guess.

[Tokarev]

Holosun doesn't seem to have any qualms about proprietary footprint. I think they'd actually be smart to intro a 509 that uses the ACRO mount.

With that said, wasn't it in another thread that GJM or someone was recently talking to Langdon about dots? Whoever it was said the 509 applies more clamping force that the acro clamp.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[GJM]

Holosun doesn't seem to have any qualms about proprietary footprint. I think they'd actually be smart to intro a 509 that uses the ACRO mount.

With that said, wasn't it in another thread that GJM or someone was recently taking to Langdon about dots? Whoever it was said the 509 applies more clamping force that the acro clamp.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

I don't have the engineering chops to evaluate his statement, but Ernest told me he thinks the 509T cross bolt arrangement is superior to the Acro design, due to more clamping surface.

The 509T is a pretty compact optic, especially for a sealed emitter, and it conceals for me about like a legacy 507 series optic. What is amazing is that Holosun made the EPS to be a closed emitter optic but still attaches with conventional screws from above. And, it is lightweight and has a window nearly 509T size.

We will have to see the detailed reviews, but the new Trijicon sealed emitter seems to have a tortured attachment method. How tedious to have to stick a rod in and out of a capstain style screw -- compare that to a single side bolt like the Acro or 509T.

[HCM]

Holosun doesn't seem to have any qualms about proprietary footprint. I think they'd actually be smart to intro a 509 that uses the ACRO mount.

With that said, wasn't it in another thread that GJM or someone was recently talking to Langdon about dots? Whoever it was said the 509 applies more clamping force that the acro clamp.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


I don't have the engineering chops to evaluate his statement, but Ernest told me he thinks the 509T cross bolt arrangement is superior to the Acro design, due to more clamping surface.

The 509T is a pretty compact optic, especially for a sealed emitter, and it conceals for me about like a legacy 507 series optic. What is amazing is that Holosun made the EPS to be a closed emitter optic but still attaches with conventional screws from above. And, it is lightweight and has a window nearly 509T size.

We will have to see the detailed reviews, but the new Trijicon sealed emitter seems to have a tortured attachment method. How tedious to have to stick a rod in and out of a capstain style screw -- compare that to a single side bolt like the Acro or 509T.

Re: clamping force and the ACRO footprint, I think it’s telling that both Randy Lee of Apex and Roger Wang of FCD (two of the best engineers in the business) offer upgraded claw/clamp/ locking bar parts for the ACRO footprint.

https://www.forwardcontrolsdesign.com/rlb-acro-p1p2.html

https://www.apextactical.com/extended-clamp-for-steiner-mps

[Lon]

That means Trijicon essentially admits that Aimpoint, their biggest competitor in the contract space, came out with a better mounting system than them and they will concede and adopt it. Does that sound like Trijicon to you?
When they launched the MRO, it didn't come with a T1 interface and it very easily could have.

I didn’t say I expect them to, I said it would be a smart thing to do. Knowing Trijicon, they won’t. But it would be a smart thing to do.

[Tokarev]

...Ernest told me he thinks the 509T cross bolt arrangement is superior to the Acro design, due to more clamping surface.


Probably true and could be why Holosun went their own way. I assume Langdon is basing this on first-hand experience and feedback from end users in his sphere.

Viridian, CHPWS, Steiner could have all easily done a 509 footprint and moved to make that the closed emitter standard footprint. But, as a manufacturer trying to get market attention, who you gonna copy?

[GJM]

Probably true and could be why Holosun went their own way. I assume Langdon is basing this on first-hand experience and feedback from end users in his sphere.

Viridian, CHPWS, Steiner could have all easily done a 509 footprint and moved to make that the closed emitter standard footprint. But, as a manufacturer trying to get market attention, who you gonna copy?

Aimpoint, obviously, as they have the best reputation of anyone in this space. I just wish Aimpoint put the same effort into the Acro as in the products that made them who they are.

[Tokarev]

The RCR page is live on Trijicon's site. Well, sort of. The page exists but there's nothing on it yet.

https://www.trijicon.com/products/subcategory/trijicon-rcr-reflex-sight

In related news, there's a pic on another forum of the box that seems to be a little clearer than the one posted here. It does look like the RCR attaches with some sort of capstan screw.

[GJM]

The RCR page is live on Trijicon's site. Well, sort of. The page exists but there's nothing on it yet.

https://www.trijicon.com/products/subcategory/trijicon-rcr-reflex-sight

In related news, there's a pic on another forum of the box that seems to be a little clearer than the one posted here. It does look like the RCR attaches with some sort of capstan screw.

Link doesn't work now, perhaps Trijicon took it down.

Something I was wondering about it the variation of screw holes in direct milled installations. I am assuming the capstain screw needs to fit snugly against the opening in the optic -- how will that work in direct milled installations that use different diameter and length screws?

[Tokarev]

how will that work in direct milled installations that use different diameter and length screws?

It will be interesting to see if and how the new optic works on ZEV or Brownell’s slides.

If the concept works well enough and isn't protected by some kind of patent I assume Holosun will be on board with an enclosed 508. And Leupold may do something similar with the DPP.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Tokarev]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rvn5ERo5QmI

[GJM]

Don't waste your time watching this video. All he does is read the written brochure while showing a picture of the brochure.

[stomridertx]

Here's what it will take for any company to take me away from Holosun. Come out with a side clamp mounted enclosed emitter with a 5-6 MOA dot option that doesn't increase in size from the 509t. I don't give a rat's ass about solar capability. Have the same battery life, no refresh rate issues, and same durabilty. If it's not made in China that would definitely help sway me. Anything short of that is just a non-starter. If I had a competition gun I'd probably not care as much about an enclosed emitter, but that's not my life right now. Trijicon usually does dot size options and I'd probably be on board if this didn't have a mounting method I'm not gonna sign up to put up with. As of now the EPS 6 MOA is my favorite optic overall, with a 509t that sticks around because I love how it mounts, but hate the reticle on a pistol. I'm guessing that Huanic is sitting on some emitter tech that others can't duplicate because I don't see how they can't be beat at this game by companies that started this whole thing to begin with.

[GJM]

Here's what it will take for any company to take me away from Holosun. Come out with a side clamp mounted enclosed emitter with a 5-6 MOA dot option that doesn't increase in size from the 509t. I don't give a rat's ass about solar capability. Have the same battery life, no refresh rate issues, and same durabilty. If it's not made in China that would definitely help sway me. Anything short of that is just a non-starter. If I had a competition gun I'd probably not care as much about an enclosed emitter, but that's not my life right now. Trijicon usually does dot size options and I'd probably be on board if this didn't have a mounting method I'm not gonna sign up to put up with. As of now the EPS 6 MOA is my favorite optic overall, with a 509t that sticks around because I love how it mounts, but hate the reticle on a pistol. I'm guessing that Huanic is sitting on some emitter tech that others can't duplicate because I don't see how they can't be beat at this game by companies that started this whole thing to begin with.

For my needs, a reliable EPS (full size) with a 6moa dot is as close to a perfect edc optic that exists today. Sealed, good dot size, lightweight, decent display size, concealable, with a straightforward mounting arrangement.

[Tokarev]

Don't waste your time watching this video. All he does is read the written brochure while showing a picture of the brochure.

Apologies. I should have put in a disclaimer that that video was a summation and not a secret data dump.

[GJM]

Apologies. I should have put in a disclaimer that that video was a summation and not a secret data dump.

No worries -- I am so interested in the capstain screw method of the closed emitter, I look at everything new, hoping to learn more.

[stomridertx]

For my needs, a reliable EPS (full size) with a 6moa dot is as close to a perfect edc optic that exists today. Sealed, good dot size, lightweight, decent display size, concealable, with a straightforward mounting arrangement.

I'm almost there. The 509T on my G47 lives in constant fear of getting replaced with an EPS 6. My brain is having a hard time getting past the downgrade it appears to be on paper. As much as the 509T appears to be much more rugged, it's not like the EPS has a glass jaw and its mounting method is holding up just fine. That DPP titanium plate is trucking right along. Sometimes I find myself putting my G19 slide on my G47 frame just so I can shoot the EPS with a full sized grip.

[G19Fan]

For my needs, a reliable EPS (full size) with a 6moa dot is as close to a perfect edc optic that exists today. Sealed, good dot size, lightweight, decent display size, concealable, with a straightforward mounting arrangement.

Same for me but circle mrs eps carry

[GJM]

Of the two, I am more optimistic about the open emitter product. Fixes my two main complaints with the RMR, a tiny display and having to remove the unit to change the battery. Hopefully a 6.5 dot option becomes available.

[EVP]

I'm almost there. The 509T on my G47 lives in constant fear of getting replaced with an EPS 6. My brain is having a hard time getting past the downgrade it appears to be on paper. As much as the 509T appears to be much more rugged, it's not like the EPS has a glass jaw and its mounting method is holding up just fine. That DPP titanium plate is trucking right along. Sometimes I find myself putting my G19 slide on my G47 frame just so I can shoot the EPS with a full sized grip.


Just curious is it the size of the dot on the eps that you like or the full-size grip? The size is not that much different between the two when carrying at least for me.


Of the two, I am more optimistic about the open emitter product. Fixes my two main complaints with the RMR, a tiny display and having to remove the unit to change the battery. Hopefully a 6.5 dot option becomes available.


I have kinda went in a full circle and have reconsidered that the RMR, besides the small window, makes a good optic for concealed carry.

[stomridertx]

Just curious is it the size of the dot on the eps that you like or the full-size grip? The size is not that much different between the two when carrying at least for me.
It's the 6 MOA dot. I prefer it by a huge margin to a 2 MOA dot for pistol shooting. I do prefer the way the Glock 47 shoots compared to the Glock 45ish configuration of swapping slides, but it's not a monumental difference. I dislike circle dot reticles altogether. For me, the 6 MOA dot is cleaner with or without vision correction and I don't have to run it as bright. It also hides wobble better and I consistently shoot it more accurately on a B-8. I just keep coming back to it and I'm losing the desire to run anything else on a pistol at this point. I'm in that frustrating position that nobody makes the thing I exactly want so I'll probably have to standardize on the EPS 6 until something comes along. Most likely, the EPS mounting system is fine and the perceived superiority of the side clamp isn't significant enough to go without my preferred reticle. To bring it back on the topic of the thread, Trijicon might have finally snared me if their enclosed emitter had a side clamp as I'll bet there will be a 5 or 6.5 MOA dot version of it. I'm not putting up with that capstan screw crap for a second.
For reference, my Glock 47 has a 509T with Holosun steel MOS plate and my Gen 5 G19 has an EPS 6 with DPP Titanium MOS plate.

[YVK]

Of the two, I am more optimistic about the open emitter product. Fixes my two main complaints with the RMR, a tiny display and having to remove the unit to change the battery. Hopefully a 6.5 dot option becomes available.

Have you, or anybody else, ever put an SRO on a Maple Leaf slide? Asking because reasons.


NEVER MIND. Found my answer, I think. The question had to do with the fact that on certain guns and cuts a forward offset glass must also clear the slide.
107703

[spyderco monkey]

More RCR info:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Trijicon-RCR-The-closed-emitter-has-arrived-/5-2661050/

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/309598/Screen_Shot_2023-07-25_at_3_01_37_PM_png-2897545.JPG

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/309598/Screen_Shot_2023-07-25_at_3_12_14_PM_png-2897568.JPG

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/309598/FB_IMG_1690243485008_jpg-2896894_jpeg-2897638.JPG

[JCN]

More RCR info:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/309598/FB_IMG_1690243485008_jpg-2896894_jpeg-2897638.JPG

Oh that makes it more clear regarding the Capstan screw.

Basically it slides into an open slot and then captures down.

So in that way you could theoretically use different length screws or trim to fit as needed.

Hopefully they have the foresight to include different thread pitches too for aftermarket mounts.

There are some RMR mounts it won't work with though... like the ones that use screw posts and smaller screws inside of them.

[Archer1440]

The battery cap protection afforded by the "RMR Horns" looks like an excellent feature.

[YVK]

I am very dumb technically, and in general. Would both screws need to be turned at the same time to affix the optic? The way I understand this, optic will need to be held suspended over a plate to clear both screws inserted in their slots, screws will need to get aligned with their respective holes, and then turned more or less simultaneously?

[JCN]

I am very dumb technically, and in general. Would both screws need to be turned at the same time to affix the optic? The way I understand this, optic will need to be held suspended over a plate to clear both screws inserted in their slots, screws will need to get aligned with their respective holes, and then turned more or less simultaneously?

Wouldn’t have to be at the same time.

Think of lug nuts on a car wheel. You don’t have to turn all at the same time.

You snug up a little on one side and then go across and snug up on the other side. Then tighten down.

What the side cut out for the slot on the side of the RCR does is allow you to pass the screw without having to lift it over an edge (so you don’t need as tall of a relief area).

So I would imagine that you put the RCR in place on top of RMR bosses.

Then slide the capstan screws into the holes on each side.

Hand snug or lightly snug the screw on each side.

Then use the tool to tighten each side medium amount.

Then final torque down (may not be necessary depending on the torque requirement).



If the capstan screw cap relief area isn’t deep then it would look like:

1. Lightly thread one screw.
2. Slide one side of the RCR into place (that’s where the side cut slot helps)
3. Put other side screw into slot and lightly tighten down.

Alternate sides like lug nuts to finish snugging.

If there are no RMR bosses, then it can be on deck height.

If there are RMR bosses then you’ll have to clear the 2mm or so.

You could set the first screw to nearly that height before sliding in the RCR.

[YVK]

Can't wait for independent users' reports on installation process.

[DaBigBR]

The capstan screw installation seems like it would be kind of tedious. It's not like you have to install one every day, but I pity the LE armorers that will have to do dozens or hundreds of these. I imagine that they can be torqued within an acceptable range by going to tight plus a certain number of "holes." You see stuff like that sometimes on AR handguards (the ALG handguard comes to mind), but you're dealing with significantly higher torque values and wider ranges there.

[Archer1440]

With small capstan screws like this, torque is self limiting if the tool is designed correctly.

[GJM]

Isn't Aug 1, when the products go live?

[Archer1440]

Isn't Aug 1, when the products go live?

August 1 is the expiration date on the NDA's signed by people like Aaron Cowan, who got pre-production samples (last February, IIRC). Expect more than a few reviews and discussion on that date.

[KevH]

I first heard about this sight back in 2021. It's nice to actually see what one will look like.

I see a Glock 47 with a FCD plate and one of these mounted on it in my future, especially if they have a 6.5 moa (RM07) version available.

[BillSWPA]

I would be very interested if they offer a 6.5 MOA dot with auto adjust.

(I know auto adjust is not for everyone, but it does work well for me with my current RM07’s. The few light conditions in which it does not work happen to be good conditions for my backup iron sights.)

[GJM]

I would be very interested if they offer a 6.5 MOA dot with auto adjust.

(I know auto adjust is not for everyone, but it does work well for me with my current RM07’s. The few light conditions in which it does not work happen to be good conditions for my backup iron sights.)

Same here. A larger RMR with 6.5/auto and a battery compartment could be my default open emitter.

[mrozowjj]

Here's what it will take for any company to take me away from Holosun. Come out with a side clamp mounted enclosed emitter with a 5-6 MOA dot option that doesn't increase in size from the 509t. I don't give a rat's ass about solar capability. Have the same battery life, no refresh rate issues, and same durabilty. If it's not made in China that would definitely help sway me. Anything short of that is just a non-starter. If I had a competition gun I'd probably not care as much about an enclosed emitter, but that's not my life right now. Trijicon usually does dot size options and I'd probably be on board if this didn't have a mounting method I'm not gonna sign up to put up with. As of now the EPS 6 MOA is my favorite optic overall, with a 509t that sticks around because I love how it mounts, but hate the reticle on a pistol. I'm guessing that Huanic is sitting on some emitter tech that others can't duplicate because I don't see how they can't be beat at this game by companies that started this whole thing to begin with.

I agree with this entirely. I would very much love to give Trijcon my money but the EPS 6 MOA is ideal for me. I tried smaller dots and I don't like them on pistols at all. I tried the 8 MOA ring and that was mostly great but what I found is I just shoot faster and more consitently with a 6-8 MOA dot compared to a ring.

If they make a 509t with a 6 MOA I'd get that but since I don't I make due with the EPS.

[Tokarev]

Aaron Cowan has his initial 2k review of the RCR up on Patreon.

Capstan screws are used

Good clarity although the blue tint is still there

Good brightness settings

Works well with night vision

Survived the initial use and the four drop tests

MSRP $800


Fits in Safariland duty holster. No mention of Blackhawk

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230801/76f69ff90f540c11c859dc039566a172.jpg

AC does mention the RMR HD. He says he'll have a video soon. He does make a brief mention in the RCR video that the HD has some kind of advanced auto brightness setting.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Tokarev]

Here's the press release info on the HD:

The Trijicon RMR created the standard for what a miniature rugged reflex optic should be. Not coincidentally, the RMR immediately became a favorite duty optic, and Trijicon RMR optics have been proven in the most demanding environments on earth by U.S. Special Operations, law enforcement agencies, and individuals in personal defense situations.

Now, Trijicon once again sets the standard with the new RMR HD, an optic specifically designed for the evolving needs of law enforcement and the armed forces.

Built on the foundation of the Trijicon RMR Adjustable LED model, the RMR HD features a large, clear lens made from tempered glass and has the same footprint as the RMR. The larger lens provides an unobstructed view of the target and aids in finding and tracking the reticle more easily.

The new RMR HD reticle allows the user to toggle between a 55 MOA segmented circle reticle with a center dot, or a crisp dot-only option, both of which include a new super bright setting and an additional night vision setting. Models are available with either a 1.0 MOA or 3.25 MOA center dot.

In auto mode, the RMR HD’s advanced forward-looking light sensor automatically adjusts dot brightness to the target environment for effective use in any lighting scenario, including the use of a weapon light. The auto-brightness range can also be customized so that the auto mode will vary in a higher or lower range depending on the user’s preference, and a button “lock out” mode will keep the RMR HD in auto mode even if a button is inadvertently pressed.

With nine brightness settings, controlled by larger, more responsive buttons, the user can also easily select which brightness level they would like when in manual mode and “lock-in” that setting indefinitely if they choose.

The RMR HD features a top-loading battery compartment, allowing the RMR HD’s single CR2032 battery to be replaced quickly and easily without the need to re-confirm the zero of the optic. The battery will provide over three years of continuous use at the dot-only brightness setting 5 of 9 at 70ºF.

The RMR HD is compatible with all existing RMR mounts and optics-ready pistols and is designed to fit many existing optics-ready duty holsters. The RMR HD is also sized to work with optic-height co-witness sights built for the current RMR or SRO.

The patented RMR-shape of the forged 7075 T-6 aluminum housing absorbs recoil and other impacts and diverts stresses away from the lens. Built with Trijicon’s precision engineering expertise, the optic’s elevation and windage adjustments are audible, precise, and repeatable, without the need for any special tools. The optic is waterproof up to 66 ft., is drop tested, vibration tested, and will operate in extreme temperatures.

The Made-in-USA Trijicon RMR HD is ready for those who require a feature-rich optic with high performance and ultra-reliability.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Tokarev]

Guns and Tactics' HD review:


https://youtu.be/6XLd4tEmNB4

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[Tokarev]

Trijicon RCR mounting info. Also info on the HD:


https://youtu.be/KLnkFRFt1XE

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Tokarev]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws_C_Yet56o

[Tokarev]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfluyJ_Ymc0

[Lon]

QOTD from Tamara:

107901

[Tokarev]

https://youtu.be/WnKwsVwr02Y


https://youtu.be/tgWu1TY9shY

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[GJM]

The RMR HD will need to overcome the following:

An $850 MSRP (no idea the street price).

The forward lip which interferes with some holsters, rear iron forward installations, deep direct milled cuts, and may create reliability issues if brass gets caught between the optic and slide.

No 6.5 dot option. A choice of dot, circle dot but no circle only.

How well the auto function works in real use.

[texag]

I've been looking for something to replace my RMR on a Staccato P, and like some of the updates they've done, but I don't know if I can stomach these prices vs shelling out the money for a new plate + front sight and using an EPS for an enclosed emitter or waiting for the 507 comp to become more available.

[Tokarev]

The RMR HD will need to overcome the following:

An $850 MSRP (no idea the street price).

The forward lip which interferes with some holsters, rear iron forward installations, deep direct milled cuts, and may create reliability issues if brass gets caught between the optic and slide.

No 6.5 dot option. A choice of dot, circle dot but no circle only.

How well the auto function works in real use.

MSRP on the SRO is $771. The RMR is $731.

Initial info suggests the new optics will be $650.

https://www.kenziesoptics.com/product/trijicon-rcr-ruggedized-closed-reflex-sight-3-25-moa-dot/

https://www.kenziesoptics.com/?s=Rmr+hd&post_type=product&type_aws=true&aws_id=1&aws_filter=1

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[stomridertx]

After watching some videos, there is some innovation here that should be praised. The RMR HD demonstrated forward light sensor looks to work really well with a weapon light, and that is something other optics have not done well and is interesting. The Holosun SCS reportedly has a good light sensor but you are stuck with a green circle dot as the only option there. No 6 MOA dot is a sticking point for me, but admittedly I don't have a lot of time behind a 3.25 MOA dot and my bias is based on the difference between 2 MOA and 6 MOA. It's entirely possible that if I shot a 3.25 RMR I'd find that a good middle ground. I'm not sure I'm willing to try as I'm not married to the RMR footprint on any of my guns so I'll likely still stick with the EPS.
The RCR doesn't appeal to me at all, but all those guys that have RMR milled slides, ACOGs with top mounted RMRs, or top scope rings with the RMR footprint now have a direct mount closed emitter option provided the cost of admission isn't prohibitive.

[Exiledviking]

And what good is a 55 MOA circle on a pistol? I personally find the much smaller 32 MOA circle on the Holosun sights nearly useless, so a significantly larger circle will be completely useless on a pistol.
If they do offer either one of these sights with a 5 or 6 MOA dot, I'd be interested.

[breakingtime91]

MSRP on the SRO is $771. The RMR is $731.

Initial info suggests the new optics will be $650.

https://www.kenziesoptics.com/product/trijicon-rcr-ruggedized-closed-reflex-sight-3-25-moa-dot/

https://www.kenziesoptics.com/?s=Rmr+hd&post_type=product&type_aws=true&aws_id=1&aws_filter=1

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

primary arms just started pre order at 645 for each.

[Archer1440]

And what good is a 55 MOA circle on a pistol? I personally find the much smaller 32 MOA circle on the Holosun sights nearly useless, so a significantly larger circle will be completely useless on a pistol.
If they do offer either one of these sights with a 5 or 6 MOA dot, I'd be interested.

The experience of some using the larger rings is that you can pick up the periphery of the ring sooner in a poor index situation, getting you to the dot faster. Large rings with no dot also work well IF you have the discipline to always focus on a specific impact point on the desired target (most people do not).

[Tokarev]

A "torture" test of both:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cb6XGp-EqM

[JCN]

And what good is a 55 MOA circle on a pistol? I personally find the much smaller 32 MOA circle on the Holosun sights nearly useless, so a significantly larger circle will be completely useless on a pistol.
If they do offer either one of these sights with a 5 or 6 MOA dot, I'd be interested.

I kind of thought that until I started doing more PCC work in USPSA. I had hated the 32 MOA ring for pistol gaming (but liked it for closer self defense pistol with small windows because of the virtual window augmentation using the ring when the dot would have been off the window).

But... when I started using a 510/512 with the 65 MOA ring, there was enough daylight between the ring and the dot that it started to become useful again. Basically I use outer ring as a centering reticle (a tip given to me by a top USPSA PCC competitor).

So maybe?

[mrozowjj]

After watching some videos, there is some innovation here that should be praised. The RMR HD demonstrated forward light sensor looks to work really well with a weapon light, and that is something other optics have not done well and is interesting. The Holosun SCS reportedly has a good light sensor but you are stuck with a green circle dot as the only option there. No 6 MOA dot is a sticking point for me, but admittedly I don't have a lot of time behind a 3.25 MOA dot and my bias is based on the difference between 2 MOA and 6 MOA. It's entirely possible that if I shot a 3.25 RMR I'd find that a good middle ground. I'm not sure I'm willing to try as I'm not married to the RMR footprint on any of my guns so I'll likely still stick with the EPS.
The RCR doesn't appeal to me at all, but all those guys that have RMR milled slides, ACOGs with top mounted RMRs, or top scope rings with the RMR footprint now have a direct mount closed emitter option provided the cost of admission isn't prohibitive.


I personally think that Trijicon will eventually offer both RMR HD and RCR in either the 5 MOA dot from the SRO or the 6.5 from the reguilar RMR. I can see why they might have decided to launch them right now with existing options just to get them in market but I think they'd be missing an opportunity if they didn't eventually add those options. I guess the good thing for me and you is we get to wait and let the people that like smaller dots mess with these and get all the bugs out and also in theory let the price drop.

I'm very curious if the battery life really is 5 years where I can leave the thing on all the time like a Aimpoint or not. I love motion activated option of some of the Holosun and Sig optics but if I can literally leave it on a usable brightness for a few years I'll be ok changing a battery every 2-3 years premptively as a trade off to the solar back-up and shake awake.

If these prove to be as bomb-proof as the standard RMR and they eventually have a larger dot option I will happpily do what I've been saying I'll do for years and get rid of my Holosuns for the American made product.

[vandal]

Regarding the RCR: I think Trijicon's self-limiting to the RMR footprint will keep them behind the curve for a long time. Result: We will still need suppressor height irons.

In the YouTube demo videos it looks like there is still lens tint and fish-eye for both the RMR HD and RCR. Is the visible area bigger than an ACRO? Otherwise what are they offering vs an ACRO other than alleged battery life (probably a byproduct of the tint)? My ACRO has been on for 8 months now... that's long enough.

[GJM]

Regarding the RCR: I think Trijicon's self-limiting to the RMR footprint will keep them behind the curve for a long time. Result: We will still need suppressor height irons.

In the YouTube demo videos it looks like there is still lens tint and fish-eye for both the RMR HD and RCR. Is the visible area bigger than an ACRO? Otherwise what are they offering vs an ACRO other than alleged battery life (probably a byproduct of the tint)? My ACRO has been on for 8 months now... that's long enough.

RCR display is .88x.64, where the Acro is .63x.63. RCR is also lighter in weight.

[Sig_Fiend]

The RMR HD looks like a nice option. The RCR looks like it might make for a nice PCC option. Believe me, I do this next thing out of love. I know some of us are thinking it but leaving it unsaid. I just can't help it. ;)

107940

[Utm]

Regarding the RCR: I think Trijicon's self-limiting to the RMR footprint will keep them behind the curve for a long time. Result: We will still need suppressor height irons.

In the YouTube demo videos it looks like there is still lens tint and fish-eye for both the RMR HD and RCR. Is the visible area bigger than an ACRO? Otherwise what are they offering vs an ACRO other than alleged battery life (probably a byproduct of the tint)? My ACRO has been on for 8 months now... that's long enough.

Its easier for an agency that already runs RMR footprint guns to add this into the rotation I'm sure. Also anyone that runs a glock changes the irons anyway so I don't see that being a factor really.

[BillSWPA]

Every optic cut slide I currently own has an RMR cut. If I want an optic cut Brownells slide for a Glock 26, it will come with an RMR cut. Using this footprint was not a bad idea.

[HCM]

The RMR HD looks like a nice option. The RCR looks like it might make for a nice PCC option. Believe me, I do this next thing out of love. I know some of us are thinking it but leaving it unsaid. I just can't help it. ;)

107940

107945

[Exiledviking]

It appears to me that the frame of the RCR is thinner than the ACRO (which is preferable to me)?

[theJanitor]

For us 1911 guys that milled our pistols years ago, the rmr footprint was the only option, these new optics are a welcome option

[Tokarev]

Another influencer video. No wonder these aren't in stock anywhere yet. Trijicon appears to have shipped the entire product run to youtu.be people.


https://youtu.be/VsHsNBEE-zo


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[matt7184]

Every optic cut slide I currently own has an RMR cut. If I want an optic cut Brownells slide for a Glock 26, it will come with an RMR cut. Using this footprint was not a bad idea.

The RCR may not be compatible with the Zev Style RMR cuts due to the post, unless Brownells/Zev makes new screws that are compatible.

[Tokarev]

The RCR may not be compatible with the Zev Style RMR cuts due to the post, unless Brownells/Zev makes new screws that are compatible.

Barring something else that would hamper compatibility I can't imagine these companies not selling special screws. Same goes for Shadow Systems. I'm sure SS will offer a longer set of RCR screws at some point.

[GJM]

Barring something else that would hamper compatibility I can't imagine these companies not selling special screws. Same goes for Shadow Systems. I'm sure SS will offer a longer set of RCR screws at some point.

There are many screw variations on RMR direct mill cuts.

[stomridertx]

Barring something else that would hamper compatibility I can't imagine these companies not selling special screws. Same goes for Shadow Systems. I'm sure SS will offer a longer set of RCR screws at some point.

Are capstan screws easy to source?

[Tokarev]

Are capstan screws easy to source?You tell me. I've never had a need to shop for them before.



There are many screw variations on RMR direct mill cuts.

True enough. Companies offering RMR slides or slide cut machining will definitely need to do some homework.


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[mmc45414]

Are capstan screws easy to source?

Seems to be:

107950

[GJM]

Something I am curious about, and have seen no reference to yet, is how the dots on these two new optics do in a low sun angle?

[Noah]

Something I am curious about, and have seen no reference to yet, is how the dots on these two new optics do in a low sun angle?

It was very very briefly mentioned in the T Rex Arms video, only that they felt that single pane open emitter dots did better with sun glare from the rear.

[HCountyGuy]

Trijicon RCR mounting info. Also info on the HD:


https://youtu.be/KLnkFRFt1XE

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Tedious is the first word that comes to mind on the mounting procedure. Reinventing the wheel for what exactly? It seems to add to the height of the RCR without an appreciable gain in optic window. Trijicon purists will of course buy a truckload, but I don't see this helping Trijicon regain traction in the current market.

[JCS]

Tedious is the first word that comes to mind on the mounting procedure. Reinventing the wheel for what exactly? It seems to add to the height of the RCR without an appreciable gain in optic window. Trijicon purists will of course buy a truckload, but I don't see this helping Trijicon regain traction in the current market.

You can’t strip them out. That alone makes it worth the extra 5 minutes install time. I stripped out a screw on an sro and if I never have to remove one of those again I will be quite content.

[GJM]

You can’t strip them out. That alone makes it worth the extra 5 minutes install time. I stripped out a screw on an sro and if I never have to remove one of those again I will be quite content.

Why do you think you can't strip a capstain screw?

[JCS]

Why do you think you can't strip a capstain screw?

If it can be stripped, please explain how?

I’ve never seen them until the video and that’s my first thought. Maybe I don’t understand how they work.

[stomridertx]

Why do you think you can't strip a capstain screw?

I think he is referring to stripping of driver interface and not stripping in the form of cross threading. There is nothing more frustrating than stripping out the head of a fastener and having to drill it for an ez-out bit or drill it out altogether. The way the capstan screw head is torqued, that type of stripping is indeed impossible to do. As long as you pay attention and clean off old threadlocker, it should be very hard to cross thread them too.
I'd still rather just have torx fasteners through an EPS, but I don't want to discount how much guys with a bunch of RMR milled slides would want this.

One sticking point for some RMR footprints is getting the right capstan screw thread. A quick search shows them only available in metric sizes, and I think most RMR cuts use US sizes.

[Tokarev]

I don't want to discount how much guys with a bunch of RMR milled slides....

From a large agency standpoint the screws should be a welcome feature. Armorers or FIs can install the optic and ensure things are put together properly. Hopefully officers won't be terribly tempted to mess with the screws being that they won't be able to really get at them.



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[Clusterfrack]

Why do you think you can't strip a capstain screw?


If it can be stripped, please explain how?

I’ve never seen them until the video and that’s my first thought. Maybe I don’t understand how they work.


I think he is referring to stripping of driver interface and not stripping in the form of cross threading. There is nothing more frustrating than stripping out the head of a fastener and having to drill it for an ez-out bit or drill it out altogether. The way the capstan screw head is torqued, that type of stripping is indeed impossible to do. As long as you pay attention and clean off old threadlocker, it should be very hard to cross thread them too.
I'd still rather just have torx fasteners through an EPS, but I don't want to discount how much guys with a bunch of RMR milled slides would want this.

One sticking point for some RMR footprints is getting the right capstan screw thread. A quick search shows them only available in metric sizes, and I think most RMR cuts use US sizes.


From a large agency standpoint the screws should be a welcome feature. Armorers or FIs can install the optic and ensure things are put together properly. Hopefully officers won't be terribly tempted to mess with the screws being that they won't be able to really get at them.


The main problem I've seen with optic mounting screws is crossthreading or stripping the socket, or breaking off the head--typically due to people using man-strength instead of a torque limiting tool. The heads of torx and especially Torx+ are very difficult to bugger. The capstan screw seems like a solution to a non-problem.

The RCR window seems higher than the competition, and the amount of ass hanging off the top makes the optic look really tall from the pics. Edit: this may be an optical illusion. See post below.

[Clusterfrack]

I found specs for the window size on Trex Arms. Why isn't this on Trijicon's page?

509t2 1.6L×1.16W×1.13H. Window size: 0.66Hx0.9W”
EPS 1.62L×1.13W×0.99H". Window Size: 0.63Hx0.91W”
EPS carry 1.62L×1.07W×0.95H". Window Size: 0.58Hx0.77W”
Acro P2 1.9Lx1.3Wx1.2H". Window Size: 0.6H x0.6W"
Trijicon RCR 1.8Lx1.2Wx1H. Window Size: 0.64Hx0.88W"

[JCN]

The capstan screw seems like a solution to a non-problem.

Although it IS a solution to the problem of “we can’t make an enclosed emitter to work on RMR footprint because screws would have to go through the enclosed housing…”

From that standpoint, it’s kind of an innovative solution!

While definitely a workaround, I appreciate the option.

[GJM]

Some of the screws I have for RMR footprint installations, whether direct milled or with plates, are darn small. I am having trouble visualizing how capstain screws will work with these size screws, but perhaps they will be the greatest thing since sliced bread. I have seen enough different failures, screws that are stripped, cross threaded or just plain broke -- and used various methods to remove the messed up screw. Hard to visualize that happening from the side.

[WDR]

Some of the screws I have for RMR footprint installations, whether direct milled or with plates, are darn small. I am having trouble visualizing how capstain screws will work with these size screws, but perhaps they will be the greatest thing since sliced bread. I have seen enough different failures, screws that are stripped, cross threaded or just plain broke -- and used various methods to remove the messed up screw. Hard to visualize that happening from the side.

I agree that removing a broken capstan screw from underneath the RCR looks decidedly difficult, with the front bosses in place, and the heads of the screws *almost* captured by the body of the optic. But, folks wont be taking these off and putting them back on a lot, now that the battery is otherwise accessible. Time will tell if it was the right decision for them to stick with RMR footprint. I can see it being appealing to many folks/organizations who already have RMR cut guns.

At the current prices... I'm not sure I'm a buyer. Once the novelty wears off, and prices settle a little lower, I might be inclined to try one, if the capstan screws don't turn out to be an issue. I'm not a fan of the look of the huge buttons, and I worry about how easy they may be to activate, but it's not a deal breaker for me.

The RMR HD addresses my primary gripe about the SRO (durability) and the front facing light sensor stuff is intriguing to me, even though I have not personally had an issue with weapon lights and dot brightness. I do wonder why that feature wasn't included in the RCR.

[Tokarev]

I agree that removing a broken capstan screw from underneath the RCR looks decidedly difficult, with the front bosses in place, and the heads of the screws *almost* captured by the body of the optic. But, folks wont be taking these off and putting them back on a lot, now that the battery is otherwise accessible. Time will tell if it was the right decision for them to stick with RMR footprint. I can see it being appealing to many folks/organizations who already have RMR cut guns.

At the current prices... I'm not sure I'm a buyer. Once the novelty wears off, and prices settle a little lower, I might be inclined to try one, if the capstan screws don't turn out to be an issue. I'm not a fan of the look of the huge buttons, and I worry about how easy they may be to activate, but it's not a deal breaker for me.

The RMR HD addresses my primary gripe about the SRO (durability) and the front facing light sensor stuff is intriguing to me, even though I have not personally had an issue with weapon lights and dot brightness. I do wonder why that feature wasn't included in the RCR.Prices will no doubt come down and kind of settle once the newness wears off. Places like Primary Arms are already showing pretty good prices (pre order only at this point) for those who qualify for LE or mil discount.

I assume the RCR is supposed to be a more direct competitor to the ACRO. By that I mean the optic was kept with fewer features. As I understand it, one of the design points of the ACRO was that it be made as simple as possible. No shake awake to fail. No auto brightness that kicks in after a certain timeframe, etc. It was intentionally made with manual on/off and manual illustration adjustments.

I'm excited about the RCR and am really interested to see what it leads to across the industry. SIG and Holosun have similar products. I assume the RCR will help further refine these other lines. Something like an EPS that uses the RMR or DPP footprint would be a welcome addition to the market in my opinion.

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[mmc45414]

I found specs for the window size on Trex Arms. Why isn't this on Trijicon's page?

Smaller in every dimension, significantly in height, with a radically larger window:

107993

Since most moving targets for this application will be ground-based, the additional window width might be very helpful. Obviously moving the battery to the top helped facilitate this, and they managed to do this while making it much shorter in the process, and the height is where the concealment challenges come from.

One cool thing not yet discussed might be this thing in one of the widely available co-witness 1301 RMR mounts.

[mrozowjj]

Smaller in every dimension, significantly in height, with a radically larger window:

107993

Since most moving targets for this application will be ground-based, the additional window width might be very helpful. Obviously moving the battery to the top helped facilitate this, and they managed to do this while making it much shorter in the process, and the height is where the concealment challenges come from.

One cool thing not yet discussed might be this thing in one of the widely available co-witness 1301 RMR mounts.


I thought the ACRO was small so the fact that this is smaller and has a larger window is really impressive.

[sparky-kb]

I don't know that I believe those measurements. The height in particular.

https://i.imgur.com/Q6AOgTA.jpg

The initial "leaked" literature showed the RCR at 1.3 inches high. That looks more accurate judging by the above picture.

[Default.mp3]

I don't know that I believe those measurements. The height in particular.

https://i.imgur.com/Q6AOgTA.jpg

The initial "leaked" literature showed the RCR at 1.3 inches high. That looks more accurate judging by the above picture.Something to consider about the height is that the RCR would necessarily have the entirety of its height above the mounting plate, since it screws down. The ACRO, with it's side clamp method, will sit lower in the plate, as some of the height will overlap with the dovetail that it will be clamping onto. That might play a bit of a role in making the mounted heights a bit closer in parity than the spec sheet alone suggests.

[DMCutter]

If Holosun made the EPS with an RMR footprint instead of a 507k footprint, I probably wouldn't even be reading this thread.

[sparky-kb]

Something to consider about the height is that the RCR would necessarily have the entirety of its height above the mounting plate, since it screws down. The ACRO, with it's side clamp method, will sit lower in the plate, as some of the height will overlap with the dovetail that it will be clamping onto. That might play a bit of a role in making the mounted heights a bit closer in parity than the spec sheet alone suggests.


I don't think that's the case here. That would explain it if the specs were correct but I don't think they are.

Trijicon lists the RMR as 1 inch in height as well. We all know this thing is taller than an RMR.

Here's an overlay I made using the footprint to scale it. Not perfect but you get the idea. I think someone messed up the specs on that comparison chart and Trijicon's website in favor of the RCR.

https://i.imgur.com/ndNvmUT.png

[sparky-kb]

If Holosun made the EPS with an RMR footprint instead of a 507k footprint, I probably wouldn't even be reading this thread.

If Trijicon hadn't made the RCR humongous I wouldn't have ordered an EPS as my first pistol dot for my carry gun immediately after seeing it unveiled lol.

[Clusterfrack]

If Holosun made the EPS with an RMR footprint instead of a 507k footprint, I probably wouldn't even be reading this thread.

The 509t2 can fit a RMR footprint…

[RevolverRob]

The capstan mounting system of the RCR is fucking brilliant compared to through-mount top-turned screws. It achieves a multi-point clamping effect, with heavier duty screws and more clamping surface area than the through torx/hex screws we've been using.

It probably won't be quite as good as Acro mounting system, but compared to normal RMR that's a big step up.

For folks with RMR footprints on guns, this looks like a good step forward.

[DMCutter]

The 509t2 can fit a RMR footprint…

But with a plate. If I swapped out any of my direct mounted RDS on my MR920s or MR918 I'd have to swap irons, too.

[Clusterfrack]

But with a plate. If I swapped out any of my direct mounted RDS on my MR920s or MR918 I'd have to swap irons, too.

The deck height of the RCR looks pretty tall, and may require different irons as well.

[DMCutter]

The deck height of the RCR looks pretty tall, and may require different irons as well.

That's why I was wishing for an EPS with an RMR footprint. I have an EPS Carry on my CR920 and it's great. If I could put an EPS on my MR918 to replace my first gen 508t I would happily do that.

[TWR]

I’ve been going back and forth with buying an ACRO since they came out. While I liked the idea it seemed there was always a few things that held me back. Looking at the RCR and watching the reviews and torture tests, I did something I seldom do. I pre-ordered one and will be a Guinea pig. I can’t see any down side.

[GJM]

I appreciate the effort, but at some level watching this competition between Trijicon and Aimpoint, is about as exciting as watching two 60 year old Norwegians play pick up basketball.

[stomridertx]

That's why I was wishing for an EPS with an RMR footprint. I have an EPS Carry on my CR920 and it's great. If I could put an EPS on my MR918 to replace my first gen 508t I would happily do that.
It's impossible due to the RMR footprint's screw location. It's actually amazing they pulled it off on the RMS pattern. They can't copy Trijicon's capstan screw system either because I'm pretty sure Trijicon got a patent on it and that's why it took so long.
The RMR pattern mounting plate that comes with the EPS properly fences in the optic and I don't think there is a durability concern there at all. I'm already running MOS guns so I've made peace with using adapter plates in general and just finding the right irons.

[RevolverRob]

I appreciate the effort, but at some level watching this competition between Trijicon and Aimpoint, is about as exciting as watching two 60 year old Norwegians play pick up basketball.

Once upon a time, many years ago, I had an opportunity to shoot my buddy's full-auto MP5. He handed it to me along with a bag of magazines and said, "Have fun."

Prior to that, I had shot several other SMGs, Mac conversions, Sterling, PPSH, Uzi, etc. They were all pretty fun, each had its own little quirks and the PPSH and Uzi were kind of tough to shoot well. I was pretty stoked, MP5s are supposed to be the bomb, right?

I loaded a mag, slapped that charging handle, shouldered the gun, and fired a couple of rounds semi-auto, easy peasy. Flip that lever to full and let 'er rip. And...it was literally one of the most boring guns I've ever shot in my life. There was no fanfare, there was nothing, shooting an MP5 on full auto is like watching paint dry.

A couple of days later, I called another buddy of mine and was telling him about it, "Dude...I was disappointed, it was SO BORING to shoot. Just, point and squeeze and it puts the bullets where you want, without any issue."

He says to me, "That's the point, man. It's a machine meant for putting bullets where you want, quickly. It isn't meant to be something exciting, it is an appliance like a sewing machine, it is meant to be boring. Boringly accurate, boringly reliable, flat boring."

He was right.

Trijicon vs. Aimpoint might be boring, but I'll pick one or the other for all of my guns, because I'm boring and I like boring things, particularly boringly reliable things.

[mmc45414]

I don't know that I believe those measurements. The height in particular.
I agree, but that sure shows that the glass is a buttload bigger.

[sparky-kb]

I agree, but that sure shows that the glass is a buttload bigger.

Oh yeah, for sure.

I think the RCR will be great for duty guns carried openly. I'm sure there will also be quite a few folks that will carry them concealed and say it isn't that bad. It's bigger than I was hoping for as a CCW optic though.

[mmc45414]

I think the RCR will be great for duty guns carried openly. ... It's bigger than I was hoping for as a CCW optic though.
I know squat compared to others here, but for me (civilian gun nut) I think I am cool with open emitter on a pistol, because it will be concealed. But like I mentioned, I like the idea of one of these on a 1301/A300 in one of the many sweet RMR mounts. What is big on a pistol is not so big as a long gun optic.

[GJM]

Trijicon vs. Aimpoint might be boring, but I'll pick one or the other for all of my guns, because I'm boring and I like boring things, particularly boringly reliable things.

The manufacturers may try to tell you that, but red dots are nowhere near as reliable as most of the pistols they ride on. I base that statement on, between my wife and I, having broken north of 50 optics. Of course over 30 of those were Delta Point Pros, at that time reputedly one of the toughest optics available.

I have broken nearly every brand red dot including the Trijicon RMR type 1 and 2, the SRO, Acro P1, Steiner MPS, Romeo 3 and 3 XL, various Vortex, 4 and 5 series Holosun models, and I am sure more models I have forgotten about.

Leaving aside the big Delta Point Pro problem when they changed their manufacturing process, and early on out the box Holosun failures, optics have gotten more reliable. I would still be concerned with new products, regardless of manufacturer, as early serial numbers of new models seem to have greater potential for issues. If someone wants to tell you X brand or model is more reliable, ask to see the data.

[Archer1440]

After dropping his 2000-round 4-drop review on the RCR a couple days ago (passed with no issues), Aaron Cowan just dropped his review of the RMR HD.

In a word, "glowing". (ahem, no pun intended.)

Available to his Patreon subscribers.

[Tokarev]

After dropping his 2000-round 4-drop review on the RCR a couple days ago (passed with no issues), Aaron Cowan just dropped his review of the RMR HD.

In a word, "glowing". (ahem, no pun intended.)

Available to his Patreon subscribers.

Yep. Just watched the HD video. He did note some malfunctions while running the RMR HD because it hung over his test pistol's ejection port.

In other news, a couple of associates with a metro Phoenix area department had a chance to T&E both. They said they're okay but nothing Earth shattering. Probably no need to immediately transition away from your 508T or whatever just yet.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230804/62cd5dd7ef0ccb9d2836e691e40eeee4.jpg

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[Archer1440]

Yep. Just watched the HD video. He did note some malfunctions while running the RMR HD because it hung over his test pistol's ejection port.



Which, he noted up front, he expected to be an issue. That's nothing new- some people have had issues with SRO's. I noted that his cartridge cases were more or less "dribbling" out of the ejection port of his FN, so if you combine lower power ammo or a high spring rate and certain guns PLUS the overhang, yeah, could be trouble.

I, on the other hand, have about the same relationship with the ejection port on my SRO VP9L game guns and have never experienced any sort of malfunction related to the optic. 2 FTF's in 30K rounds, both from mags that had been stomped into the mud in matches. Never a failure to eject. But I do run full power ammo (not saying Aaron is not, just that the cases were not exactly ejecting con brio from what I saw.)

[JCN]

Yep. Just watched the HD video. He did note some malfunctions while running the RMR HD because it hung over his test pistol's ejection port.

In other news, a couple of associates with a metro Phoenix area department had a chance to T&E both. They said they're okay but nothing Earth shattering. Probably no need to immediately transition away from your 508T or whatever just yet.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230804/62cd5dd7ef0ccb9d2836e691e40eeee4.jpg

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That thing looks fugging huge! I think if top mounting, EPS is the clear winner.

[vandal]

I have broken nearly every brand red dot including the Trijicon RMR type 1 and 2, the SRO, Acro P1, Steiner MPS, Romeo 3 and 3 XL, various Vortex, 4 and 5 series Holosun models, and I am sure more models I have forgotten about.


https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/840/283/350.png

[TWR]

Everyone liked the huge window of the SRO but it’s an open emitter and not quite as rugged.

I see the RCR as enjoying the benefits of a bigger window, enclosed emitter and rugged. Being made in the USA is another plus and it’s only a couple hundred more than the Chinese variant. (I have 4 Holosuns and 2 Romeo5’s so I know, I know…)

[Tokarev]

Which, he noted up front, he expected to be an issue. That's nothing new- some people have had issues with SRO's.

Yes. He does mention that potential buyers need to note the location of their particular optic cut.

AC also says he isn't going to outright replace his current fleet of RMRs but will not buy any new ones either. Going forward he says he'll be buying the HD when one of his existing RMRs needs replacing.

Of particular interest is that front light sensor. He notes that it worked well for him in his various tests.

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[Tokarev]

Unless it is a funky angle or trick of the camera it appears that the HD overhangs the ejection port on the M17.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230804/6edfda33f1384242f5757966938967f0.jpg

It also looks like it will overhang on the Staccato with Dawson plate.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230804/3211fa4f219dfee72f2ee4927540074f.jpg

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[JCS]

The manufacturers may try to tell you that, but red dots are nowhere near as reliable as most of the pistols they ride on. I base that statement on, between my wife and I, having broken north of 50 optics. Of course over 30 of those were Delta Point Pros, at that time reputedly one of the toughest optics available.

I have broken nearly every brand red dot including the Trijicon RMR type 1 and 2, the SRO, Acro P1, Steiner MPS, Romeo 3 and 3 XL, various Vortex, 4 and 5 series Holosun models, and I am sure more models I have forgotten about.

Leaving aside the big Delta Point Pro problem when they changed their manufacturing process, and early on out the box Holosun failures, optics have gotten more reliable. I would still be concerned with new products, regardless of manufacturer, as early serial numbers of new models seem to have greater potential for issues. If someone wants to tell you X brand or model is more reliable, ask to see the data.

What are you doing to break all the dots? Are you torture testing them Cowan style?

[stomridertx]

What are you doing to break all the dots? Are you torture testing them Cowan style?

He's putting a lot more rounds downrange in a year than most of us do in a lifetime. God bless him for it because the data he provides is priceless.

[JCS]

He's putting a lot more rounds downrange in a year than most of us do in a lifetime. God bless him for it because the data he provides is priceless.

I appreciate the data as well. I’m just trying to understand how many rounds they are breaking after and how he got so many to break. As someone who’s heavily invested in dot platforms I haven’t experienced anywhere near that level of failure so I want to understand what’s happening with having 50 dots break.

. I don’t like stuff breaking so I want to learn how to prevent it.

[GJM]

I appreciate the data as well. I’m just trying to understand how many rounds they are breaking after and how he got so many to break. As someone who’s heavily invested in dot platforms I haven’t experienced anywhere near that level of failure so I want to understand what’s happening with having 50 dots break.

. I don’t like stuff breaking so I want to learn how to prevent it.

No special abuse beyond just shooting them. After breaking a bunch of optics, patterns start to emerge.

The DP Pro failures were largely the manufacturing change to a small decal holding the electronics slipping. Sig Romeo 3 Max/XL issues were the buttons wearing out or the lens cracking from unintentional impact. The SRO emitters got funky after high round counts. Early on, a significant percentage of Holosun optics failed soon out of the box. Holosun has gotten a lot better, but new introductions like the EPS Carry had too many duds. When I tried Vortex dots, they ejected battery caps. Early Romeo 1 optics wouldn't hold zero.

[mmc45414]

The SRO emitters got funky after high round counts.
How high is high? :cool:
Kinda embarrassed asking you what constitutes high round count, but am curious if that is like 5k or 50k?
My SRO on my M&P is the only slide mount I have, and I have been using it most every week, 75-100 rounds, since I mounted it just about a year ago.

[RevolverRob]

I don’t like stuff breaking so I want to learn how to prevent it.

The challenge with optics breaking on pistols is related primarily to the physics of them being mounted on a reciprocating slide. So, it's a bit difficult to narrow down precisely how to prevent it, due to differing designs and differing mounting systems. Some designs seem to be robust enough that failure points are the mounts. I'm thinking about the few RMR Type 2 failures I've seen, all where on plate-type systems, instead of direct mount. Others are not robust enough to withstand the jarring physics on a reciprocating slide.

Properly mounting the optic and selecting an optic that is well built, has a good warranty, and that you have a backup of is the key.

A couple of things struck me very early on about mounting systems on slides.

1) The top-down approach only works with very low mounted, small, and lightweight optics, the larger the window, the higher the optic above the slide, the more leverage is applied to the mounting screws. The working theory here was that multiple through screws and the wide footprint of the optic meant that the whole optic was clamped down to the slide with large clamping area. Theoretically, hat works just fine if all four screws are tightened and do not move. Realistically, that's not the case and a lot of optics failures are driven by loose screws allowing the optic to beat itself to death.

2) The early side-mount systems (Atom Unity) demonstrated superior mounting, because they had two perpendicular clamping forces (top down and lateral), even if you didn't get the optic screws mounted down perfectly, the two clamping surfaces made it less likely to move. .

3) The ACRO and 509T type systems are more superior they provide a much longer clamping area that clamps laterally from BOTH sides and vertically from the slide. Three perpendicular clamping forces and all controlled by a single screw.

___

The RCR with the capstan mounting system is interesting. The way it is machined and the bolts fit, it provides a wider perpendicular (top down) clamping surface than the RMR or other "top-down" mounting systems do. Whether or not this proves to be the equal of the 509T/ACRO remains to be seen. The size of the optic above the slide means move leverage will be applied to those bolts. However, the staggered spacing of them and the way of torquing them seems promising for ensuring that they stay tightened down. One challenge I see, which is minor, but present, is witness marking those capstan bolts. They look like they are fairly deep inside their cut outs. Thinking it out though, take your allen wrench and mark the side of the optic where the wrench shaft sticks out. You can then quickly check by inserting your allen wrench or even a stick or toothpick that fits in the hole. If it lines up with your witness mark, you're good.

[GJM]

How high is high? :cool:
Kinda embarrassed asking you what constitutes high round count, but am curious if that is like 5k or 50k?
My SRO on my M&P is the only slide mount I have, and I have been using it most every week, 75-100 rounds, since I mounted it just about a year ago.

I don't keep a log, but based on manufacture date, 15-20k. In multiple instances, the dot became very fuzzy, and I believe Trijicon replaced the emitter.

[GJM]

For my use, a 509T/Acro style mounting arrangement is very attractive. We are out at our remote cabin in AK. If an optic fails, I can replace it in seconds. Could even have a pre zeroed optic waiting in reserve.

[JCN]

How high is high? :cool:
Kinda embarrassed asking you what constitutes high round count, but am curious if that is like 5k or 50k?
My SRO on my M&P is the only slide mount I have, and I have been using it most every week, 75-100 rounds, since I mounted it just about a year ago.

FWIW: I have probably 60k+ rounds on my primary competition SRO and haven’t noticed any degradation.

I have heard of emitter cover scratches and cracking, but I’d consider that a wear and use item rather than a failure.

Like tires wearing out at 60k miles isn’t a failure of a car, it’s something that needs refreshing.

EDIT: it’s more like replacing windshields.

I’m pretty careful with how I wipe and clean my emitter cover as that is critical to a crisp reticle.

I have been known to polish that cover as well…

[JCN]

1) The top-down approach only works with very low mounted, small, and lightweight optics, the larger the window, the higher the optic above the slide, the more leverage is applied to the mounting screws. The working theory here was that multiple through screws and the wide footprint of the optic meant that the whole optic was clamped down to the slide with large clamping area.

I’ll make one amendment to this.

The only optic failures that I would consider true failures (loss of zero, cracked lenses) that I’ve had were when the optics were mounted on narrow slides.

My best assessment from rub marks on the underside is that the optic failed because the bottom edges of the optic frame weren’t fully supported and that essentially caused a cantilever effect where the front and rear optic body rails had to withstand the center screw pressure… like a sagging bookshelf, it failed.

So these days I try and use plate systems on narrow slides to fully support the bodies of the optics against the top down clamping force.

[RevolverRob]

I’ll make one amendment to this.

The only optic failures that I would consider true failures (loss of zero, cracked lenses) that I’ve had were when the optics were mounted on narrow slides.

My best assessment from rub marks on the underside is that the optic failed because the bottom edges of the optic frame weren’t fully supported and that essentially caused a cantilever effect where the front and rear optic body rails had to withstand the center screw pressure… like a sagging bookshelf, it failed.

So these days I try and use plate systems on narrow slides to fully support the bodies of the optics against the top down clamping force.

I'm not normally a "plate fan", but I can absolutely see what you're saying here. I guess mark me down for, "Sometimes plates are okay."

[stomridertx]

For my use, a 509T/Acro style mounting arrangement is very attractive. We are out at our remote cabin in AK. If an optic fails, I can replace it in seconds. Could even have a pre zeroed optic waiting in reserve.

This is the only thing keeping the 509T on my G47 instead of selling it and getting another EPS 6. That's my hard use gun and that mounting method is just better in every way. Hell, if they released a 6 MOA dot 509 I might start buying slides with 509 cuts in them.

[JCN]

I'm not normally a "plate fan", but I can absolutely see what you're saying here. I guess mark me down for, "Sometimes plates are okay."

It’s interesting because it’s pretty much accepted that’s what you have to do for narrow top 1911s.

It’s just that people with CZs don’t seem to have picked up on that yet.

108020

You can see from the lateral rub marks that it missed the entire structural support of the lateral rails.

Just breaking an optic gives some information, but how and why it failed helps prevent it from happening again.

It wasn’t that the Romeo3Max was total shit, it was that I used an incompatible mounting arrangement.

Both Sig and the company I had mill the slide didn’t know what was wrong.

I’ve since mounted the optics on Glocks and long guns and they’ve been fine.

So I usually try and figure out how much I’m contributing to a failure to see if I can prevent it.

That often entails a higher level of assessment than the factory sometimes can do. They often will just replace the whole part or optic when it’s cheaper to do.

[JSGlock34]

Yep. Just watched the HD video. He did note some malfunctions while running the RMR HD because it hung over his test pistol's ejection port.

With what host pistol were the malfunctions?

[GJM]

With what host pistol were the malfunctions?

The SRO didn't work on my Staccato, and I had to replace it with a 407CO.

108021

[Tokarev]

With what host pistol were the malfunctions?509 I believe.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[rayrevolver]

You can then quickly check by inserting your allen wrench or even a stick or toothpick that fits in the hole. If it lines up with your witness mark, you're good.

Safety wire those bad boys! Kidding. But man, who doesn't like a tidy safety wired bolt??

[Tokarev]

108029

[TC215]

I ended up pre-ordering an RMR HD through Primary Arms. Has anyone heard any rumors about when these are going to be available/shipping?

[GJM]

I ended up pre-ordering an RMR HD through Primary Arms. Has anyone heard any rumors about when these are going to be available/shipping?

November is what I heard, and I am hoping it is Nov 2023!

[Tokarev]

November is what I heard, and I am hoping it is Nov 2023!An LE distributor told me sometime in Q4.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Tokarev]

https://youtu.be/kLgHC0aF9-I

[Tokarev]

Mostly about a G19 Gen5 but also a little about the RMR HD.


https://youtu.be/fc1G5d5FftA

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[GJM]

Initial batch of both optics hits dealers in September per my red dot pusher.

[mmc45414]

The SRO didn't work on my Staccato, and I had to replace it with a 407CO.

108021

My current direct mill is what Jagerwerks calls Race Cut, with no rear sight (I wanted the clearance), but it looks like I will get backup sights on my next one:
108673

[G19Fan]

This is the only thing keeping the 509T on my G47 instead of selling it and getting another EPS 6. That's my hard use gun and that mounting method is just better in every way. Hell, if they released a 6 MOA dot 509 I might start buying slides with 509 cuts in them.


I ended up pre-ordering an RMR HD through Primary Arms. Has anyone heard any rumors about when these are going to be available/shipping?

Should be soon I have a 3.5 moa shipping to me next week and a 1 moa allocated to my buddy

[G19Fan]

The Vegas odds are that Trijicon will screw this up, they are the new Surefire in that regard.

107573


Holosun doesn't seem to have any qualms about proprietary footprint. I think they'd actually be smart to intro a 509 that uses the ACRO mount.

With that said, wasn't it in another thread that GJM or someone was recently talking to Langdon about dots? Whoever it was said the 509 applies more clamping force that the acro clamp.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

Something similiar is planned by holosun. At least on paper right now

[G19Fan]

I don't have the engineering chops to evaluate his statement, but Ernest told me he thinks the 509T cross bolt arrangement is superior to the Acro design, due to more clamping surface.

The 509T is a pretty compact optic, especially for a sealed emitter, and it conceals for me about like a legacy 507 series optic. What is amazing is that Holosun made the EPS to be a closed emitter optic but still attaches with conventional screws from above. And, it is lightweight and has a window nearly 509T size.

We will have to see the detailed reviews, but the new Trijicon sealed emitter seems to have a tortured attachment method. How tedious to have to stick a rod in and out of a capstain style screw -- compare that to a single side bolt like the Acro or 509T.


Here's what it will take for any company to take me away from Holosun. Come out with a side clamp mounted enclosed emitter with a 5-6 MOA dot option that doesn't increase in size from the 509t. I don't give a rat's ass about solar capability. Have the same battery life, no refresh rate issues, and same durabilty. If it's not made in China that would definitely help sway me. Anything short of that is just a non-starter. If I had a competition gun I'd probably not care as much about an enclosed emitter, but that's not my life right now. Trijicon usually does dot size options and I'd probably be on board if this didn't have a mounting method I'm not gonna sign up to put up with. As of now the EPS 6 MOA is my favorite optic overall, with a 509t that sticks around because I love how it mounts, but hate the reticle on a pistol. I'm guessing that Huanic is sitting on some emitter tech that others can't duplicate because I don't see how they can't be beat at this game by companies that started this whole thing to begin with.


And what good is a 55 MOA circle on a pistol? I personally find the much smaller 32 MOA circle on the Holosun sights nearly useless, so a significantly larger circle will be completely useless on a pistol.
If they do offer either one of these sights with a 5 or 6 MOA dot, I'd be interested.

Imo finding the dot in weird positions or moving dynamically. I recently got converted to carrying circle only and enjoy it more than I thought I would once I retrained my brain (I do lose accuracy vs 2 or 6 moa dot past 25 yards), but it is faster up close going fast and moving around

[G19Fan]

It's impossible due to the RMR footprint's screw location. It's actually amazing they pulled it off on the RMS pattern. They can't copy Trijicon's capstan screw system either because I'm pretty sure Trijicon got a patent on it and that's why it took so long.
The RMR pattern mounting plate that comes with the EPS properly fences in the optic and I don't think there is a durability concern there at all. I'm already running MOS guns so I've made peace with using adapter plates in general and just finding the right irons.


https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/840/283/350.png


For my use, a 509T/Acro style mounting arrangement is very attractive. We are out at our remote cabin in AK. If an optic fails, I can replace it in seconds. Could even have a pre zeroed optic waiting in reserve.


How high is high? :cool:
Kinda embarrassed asking you what constitutes high round count, but am curious if that is like 5k or 50k?
My SRO on my M&P is the only slide mount I have, and I have been using it most every week, 75-100 rounds, since I mounted it just about a year ago.

I shoot way less than GJM but I probably put between 10 to 14k rounds of 9mm a year through my carry gun trainer.

My primary issues with eps carry are battery trays flying off even when loctited and torqued properly if I forget to check them every 3 to 4k rounds. I run the ones with solar and they still work with no battery in bright light

Have had some mounting screws back out but I use a lot more loctite now and switched to grade 8 fasteners and it has been fine

[Clusterfrack]

For my use, a 509T/Acro style mounting arrangement is very attractive. We are out at our remote cabin in AK. If an optic fails, I can replace it in seconds. Could even have a pre zeroed optic waiting in reserve.

That is an excellent point.

[Tokarev]

Something similiar is planned by holosun. At least on paper right now

Holosun had what I believe may have been an ACRO footprint enclosed emitter on display at SHOT 2023. I asked the booth rep about it but he didn't know anything about that particular display item.

[DaBigBR]

Holosun had what I believe may have been an ACRO footprint enclosed emitter on display at SHOT 2023. I asked the booth rep about it but he didn't know anything about that particular display item.

If you are referring to the mini AEMS that first leaked on Arisaka's Instagram (I believe it was also at SHOT but it looks exactly like a miniature AEMS), they have stated that it uses the 509T footprint and if it made it to market would be intended as a lower cost alternative to the 509T.

It's also entirely possible something on the Acro footprint is coming, too.

[Tokarev]

https://youtu.be/9AptChsUsR0?si=x_oAETKWNT6oiHcg

[Tokarev]

https://youtu.be/8qX9NfrBZm0?si=Pr_8aao-qyaemO6i

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Notorious E.O.C.]

Did these things just evaporate? The announcement hype was a thing to behold, but we're about out of November and I have yet to see an in-stock notice.

[Lyonsgrid]

Did these things just evaporate? The announcement hype was a thing to behold, but we're about out of November and I have yet to see an in-stock notice.

I've had an RMR HD on order since early August through Optics Planet. I watch the shipping date get pushed back daily. Estimated shipping date is Dec 14 as of today.
Hopefully, Trijicon hasn't discovered a flaw that needs fixing prior to release.

[breakingtime91]

any updates on these??

[feudist]

https://youtu.be/9AptChsUsR0?si=x_oAETKWNT6oiHcg

Good ole A-A-Ron.
He never uses one word when he can use 5.:cool:

[Tokarev]

https://youtu.be/ARrSCGLRQL0?si=jI5hVJX8Mnzrpy4i

[Tokarev]

https://youtu.be/ARrSCGLRQL0?si=jI5hVJX8Mnzrpy4iI like the ACRO well enough. I haven't seen an RCR so can't comment on how these two might compare.

I do disagree with RDR regarding the legacy RMR. In today's market there's pretty much zero reason to buy an optic that has to be removed from the gun to change batteries. Is it that big a deal? Not really but also yes. Changing the battery annually is just adding unnecessary steps into something that no longer requires the extra work.

Plus he's kind of missing the point. The RCR is Trijicon's answer to put a closed emitter on a gun that's cut for an RMR without using an adapter plate. Trijicon could have probably quite easily made the RCR in the ACRO pattern but instead took the novel approach of using the recessed screws. Does this cause compatibility issues? Yes. It can't be used on ZEV slides or some other interpretation of the RMR footprint. But that's not Trijicon's fault.


Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

[Tokarev]

https://youtu.be/bbz483QnFYo?si=f-riUSCPPyc9-5kW

[Erick Gelhaus]

Who is this guy? What's his background ... specifically in optics?

116397

[KevH]

Who is this guy? What's his background ... specifically in optics?

116397

Jeff Wilber

Best I can tell he's a security (night clubs and such) and/or "executive protection" guy that started RDR Gear who makes kydex holsters, K9 stuff, and other "tactical" things and more recently is known for modifying Safariland holsters (specifically the 6000 series) to fit optics and other guns they weren't originally designed to hold.

He created a hullabaloo a couple years ago when he ripped off the Centrifuge Holster Accessories Mount and sold his own version of it. It was quite the little scandal for interested parties.

He became a YouTube and Instagram personality in the last few years (he has a beard, tats, and YouTube channel so he must know things right?) and puts out video content that 25 year olds that don't know any better eat up.

So to answer your questions, who knows what he actually knows? Maybe something or maybe nothing.

It's not like he has posted resume or CV online, but I will tell you that the current baby police eat his (and other guys like him) "content" up and like to regurgitate it in classes or discussions (as you probably know). Wiser folks realize that all of it is just targeted marketing and promoted advertising.

99% of YouTube (and the internet for that matter these days) is paid-advertising garbage.

[Erick Gelhaus]

Jeff Wilber

... He created a hullabaloo a couple years ago when he ripped off the Centrifuge Holster Accessories Mount and sold his own version of it.

... but I will tell you that the current baby police eat his (and other guys like him) "content" up and like to regurgitate it in classes or discussions (as you probably know). Wiser folks realize that all of it is just targeted marketing and promoted advertising.

99% of YouTube (and the internet for that matter these days) is paid-advertising garbage.

Ah, ok;
Vaguely;
Oh damn, but yeah;
Yuppers.

Thank you!

[KevH]

Ah, ok;
Vaguely;
Oh damn, but yeah;
Yuppers.

Thank you!

I'm trying to be nice, but I think you get the gist.

On a side note, I got to play with a Trijicon RMR HD back in October and I really really want one.

I just don't have $650 to $800 to spend on one and don't feel like waiting a year to get one through the LE instructor program.

If they were $450 or so and readily available I'd already own one.

The short version Kevin review is I think it's a really nice optic with a superb auto adjust that beats out just about everyone else (including Holosun).

[Utm]

Jeff Wilber

Best I can tell he's a security (night clubs and such) and/or "executive protection" guy that started RDR Gear who makes kydex holsters, K9 stuff, and other "tactical" things and more recently is known for modifying Safariland holsters (specifically the 6000 series) to fit optics and other guns they weren't originally designed to hold.

He created a hullabaloo a couple years ago when he ripped off the Centrifuge Holster Accessories Mount and sold his own version of it. It was quite the little scandal for interested parties.

He became a YouTube and Instagram personality in the last few years (he has a beard, tats, and YouTube channel so he must know things right?) and puts out video content that 25 year olds that don't know any better eat up.

So to answer your questions, who knows what he actually knows? Maybe something or maybe nothing.

It's not like he has posted resume or CV online, but I will tell you that the current baby police eat his (and other guys like him) "content" up and like to regurgitate it in classes or discussions (as you probably know). Wiser folks realize that all of it is just targeted marketing and promoted advertising.

99% of YouTube (and the internet for that matter these days) is paid-advertising garbage.
I bought several safariland holsters from him (unmodified) just because of how fast he ships them out....so he's got that going for him

[mmc45414]

Who is this guy?
Don't know who he is, but maybe could edit this out..
116496

[GJM]

When I was interested in the 229 SAO, I watched a YouTube video with him, and I was struck by his relatively shallow depth of knowledge for someone as old as he appeared to be. :p

[Erick Gelhaus]

Don't know who he is, but maybe could edit this out..
116496

Not the screen capture I posted, so, sorry, can't help with that.

[mmc45414]

Not the screen capture I posted, so, sorry, can't help with that.
I know, I meant he might wanna edit, not you.
I know everyone with a keyboard wants to dogpile, but he snatched the thing out of that holster and popped his finger right to the trigger like a movie star, and I don't mean that in a good way... :cool:


On a side note, I got to play with a Trijicon RMR HD back in October and I really really want one.
I just don't have $650 to $800 to spend on one and don't feel like waiting a year to get one through the LE instructor program.
If they were $450 or so and readily available I'd already own one.
Thanks for being comfortable enough to state the obvious, I agree!
I guess I will just get another SRO and wait for these to be nearly obsolete in the future and get one then! :cool:

[Cory]

Jeff Wilber

Best I can tell he's a security (night clubs and such) and/or "executive protection" guy that started RDR Gear who makes kydex holsters, K9 stuff, and other "tactical" things and more recently is known for modifying Safariland holsters (specifically the 6000 series) to fit optics and other guns they weren't originally designed to hold.

He created a hullabaloo a couple years ago when he ripped off the Centrifuge Holster Accessories Mount and sold his own version of it. It was quite the little scandal for interested parties.

He became a YouTube and Instagram personality in the last few years (he has a beard, tats, and YouTube channel so he must know things right?) and puts out video content that 25 year olds that don't know any better eat up.

So to answer your questions, who knows what he actually knows? Maybe something or maybe nothing.

It's not like he has posted resume or CV online, but I will tell you that the current baby police eat his (and other guys like him) "content" up and like to regurgitate it in classes or discussions (as you probably know). Wiser folks realize that all of it is just targeted marketing and promoted advertising.

99% of YouTube (and the internet for that matter these days) is paid-advertising garbage.

Interesting. I own one of his TQ mounts, and was under the impression that he was the one making TQ brackets for centrifuge before they shopped out to a different manufacturer. But, I wasn't paying close attention to that stuff at the time, and could definitely be wrong. That's shitty if true.

I have a chest rig and dangler of his as well. It's definitely a spiritus rip off, but is much cheaper and damn good quality. Most of the placard style rigs are rip offs of spiritus anyway. His doesnt need to be bought in peices and still has awesome stitching.

From watching his videos, using some of his stuff, and knowing a few guys using his stuff I haven't come to the same negative impression overall. He is some guy on the web giving his 2 cents, and happens to make gear. He's pretty upfront that he has never been LE or MIL, and has never come off as "bro-vet" personality to me dispite having sleeves. If young new kids are cops are treating what he says about stuff as gospel I think thats more on them. A guy making videos giving his opinion to grow his company doesn't strike me as a bad guy right off the rip. He usually advocates people go take training too.

How qualified does that make him about optics? Fucked if I know.

[EVP]

I don’t know who that guy is but some of these YouTubers make me shake my head and laugh.


But to get things back on topic, I have to come back around to think that the RMR is a great open emitter carry optic and this new HD version with a top mount battery will be great in that role.

I like Holosun features and personally I like a green dot, but you cannot deny the RMRs robustness and American made quality.

[JSGlock34]

116523

[msstate56]

116523

How does it run on a Staccato? Like GJM, I’ve had issues with an SRO overhanging the ejection port causing malfunctions.

[JSGlock34]

How does it run on a Staccato? Like GJM, I’ve had issues with an SRO overhanging the ejection port causing malfunctions.

It's a little early to tell, but no issues to report after 1,240 logged rounds.

[zeleny]

Said to be in stock here (https://aaapolicesupply.com/trijicon-rcr-red-dot-sight-3-25-moa/).

[rdtompki]

Anyone aware of such published data? Would be useful in coming up with eye wear lenses which minimize further light loss through the optic. I suspect the final surface that "projects" the data will be a broadband partially reflective mirror which isn't the ideal solution. Any lab with a spectral radiometer could make such measurements in 15 minutes.

Aircraft head up displays in the early days used the broadband approach with a significant loss of contrast through the combiner. Later versions took advantage of the narrow emissions of green CRT phosphors and used holographic combiners tuned to the phosphor. Yes, the outside world had a slight red tint, but the overall improvement in transmission was much appreciated by the pilots. Won't exactly be the case with RDS since LED emissions are broader, but I don't see any RDS advertisements touting improvements in this area. (Yes, your non-dominant eye is unobstructed, but for those of use without binocular vision better transmission would be a godsend.)

[Default.mp3]

Anyone aware of such published data? Would be useful in coming up with eye wear lenses which minimize further light loss through the optic. I suspect the final surface that "projects" the data will be a broadband partially reflective mirror which isn't the ideal solution. Any lab with a spectral radiometer could make such measurements in 15 minutes.Aimpoint is the only company that publishes that information for their RDSes, AFAIK. For the ACRO P-2, it is "[average] 70% in the range 420 - 900 nm" (source: https://www.aimpoint.com/products/acro-p-2-35-moa-red-dot-reflex-sight-with-integrated-acro-interface/).

[Darth_Uno]

It's definitely not the smallest optic I've ever seen.

I don't really notice a difference carrying between this and the RMR it replaced. Granted it's been all of 3 days, mostly at my office.

Is it better? Well, you don't have to remove it to change the battery, so it's got that going on.

In all seriousness I expect no issues. Would I get another? Probably, yes.

118634

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

Darth_Uno how do ya like that TLR-7A?

[Darth_Uno]

Darth_Uno how do ya like that TLR-7A?

Love it. Perfect size for a 19.