Permanently attached suppressor

[GJM]

I stopped by the LGS, and my friend there mentioned he was doing a 10.5 inch barrel with a permanently attached suppressor that measures 16 inches in overall length. This means you can buy one stamp for the suppressor but you don't have a SBR. Since you can cross state lines with a suppressor without issue, and you have a 16 inch upper, it becomes a low hassle way of having a compact length long gun.

Yankee Hill, for example makes one with a suppressor already permanently attached for about $1,000. Thoughts?

106503

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The handguard can get pretty damn hot, as with any system with the suppressor tucked down underneath. Gloves will only help so much in this scenario, though something like a handguard wrap might offer even more buffer room. A flow-thru suppressor might be better in that regard, IIRC they typically run cooler in general. However, if you simply have the handguard end right before pinned/welded can, then obviously it's no different from a standard suppressed rig.

Cleaning the suppressor would likely be more difficult, as now you have to rig a way to soak the suppressor with a whole-ass rifle attached to it still. Running a boresnake through the barrel itself might also be a bit more annoying.

I personally see it as a bit of a two trick pony (not having to do Form 20s, and being able to use them in states that don't allow SBRs but do allow cans). But if that's what you're after, then I think it can be done well.

[awp_101]

When the 80% suppressor thing was going on, I thought about using one of the designs where the front cap unscrewed and the baffles would come out that way for cleaning. Mount the suppressor housing on the barrel as a bloop tube then add the baffles and front cap once the Form 1 was approved. My PhD in procrastination saved me once again because most of the 80% places ended up getting shut down before I decided it was a "need" instead of a "want".

[littlejerry]

I stopped by the LGS, and my friend there mentioned he was doing a 10.5 inch barrel with a permanently attached suppressor that measures 16 inches in overall length. This means you can buy one stamp for the suppressor but you don't have a SBR. Since you can cross state lines with a suppressor without issue, and you have a 16 inch upper, it becomes a low hassle way of having a compact length long gun.

Yankee Hill, for example makes one with a suppressor already permanently attached for about $1,000. Thoughts?

106503

I believe Griffin sells a DT can with a pilot hole for pinning and welding.

Personally I don't see the benefit. Cans are forever purchases and if like to be able to move between hosts or remove for maintenance.

It's still a 16" rifle in the end, so it's no more compact than your common AR.

Personally I'd be more inclined to do a pinned 13.7-14.5 with a QD K can. You're probably adding ~3" over a pinned suppressor.

[JCN]

Cleaning the suppressor would likely be more difficult, as now you have to rig a way to soak the suppressor with a whole-ass rifle attached to it still. Running a boresnake through the barrel itself might also be a bit more annoying.

Although from the picture it looks like the muzzle end cap might come off to remove innerds for cleaning.

My Rugged Razor is like that.

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Although from the picture it looks like the muzzle end cap might come off to remove innerds for cleaning.

My Rugged Razor is like that.There is no endcap, it's a Turbo T2, so it's just scallops machined into the end.

AFAIK, you can remove the endcap from the Razor, but you can't remove the baffles as they're still welded in, am I wrong on this? If they cannot be removed, it'll still be a chore to soak the can, IMO. If it baffles can be removed, then yeah, that would cleaning much easier.

[JCN]

There is no endcap, it's a Turbo T2, so it's just scallops machined into the end.

AFAIK, you can remove the endcap from the Razor, but you can't remove the baffles as they're still welded in, am I wrong on this? If they cannot be removed, it'll still be a chore to soak the can, IMO. If it baffles can be removed, then yeah, that would cleaning much easier.

You are probably right!

I’ve swapped endcaps before but I don’t clean my rifle suppressors. :D

“Self cleaning” and all that jazz, lol.

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You are probably right!

I’ve swapped endcaps before but I don’t clean my rifle suppressors. :D

“Self cleaning” and all that jazz, lol.Shoot a centerfire rifle can enough, and I think it's worth cleaning, just for the weight; I've gotten two or three ounces of carbon out before with just repeat CLR soaks and some rubber mallet bashes for my SureFire SOCOMs on shorter barrels (16" .308 Win and 11.5" .223 Rem). But yeah, if you didn't care about the weight, it's mostly a non-issue under normal firing schedules AFAIK.

[GJM]

Thanks for all the good comments. My use would be a "Sprinter" camping long gun, shot infrequently, but possibly from inside the Sprinter, hence the interest in a suppressor and compact overall length.

[JCN]

Thanks for all the good comments. My use would be a "Sprinter" camping long gun, shot infrequently, but possibly from inside the Sprinter, hence the interest in a suppressor and compact overall length.

As an aside, suppressed 223 is still pretty dang loud (140dB outdoors) so it might be pretty unpleasant still.

Might be a good use for a 300 blackout with subs and supers if needed.

[mmc45414]

I stopped by the LGS, and my friend there mentioned he was doing a 10.5 inch barrel with a permanently attached suppressor that measures 16 inches in overall length. This means you can buy one stamp for the suppressor but you don't have a SBR. Since you can cross state lines with a suppressor without issue, and you have a 16 inch upper, it becomes a low hassle way of having a compact length long gun.

Yankee Hill, for example makes one with a suppressor already permanently attached for about $1,000. Thoughts?
My thoughts are I am thinking the exact same thing for the exact same reasons.
I am trimming myself back to really only one example of something, so not like I would have ten guns I would want to juggle a single can around onto.
I really do not want the extra hoops and restrictions and second permission slip for an SBR. I know some people live in the center of a large state and do not cross state lines with one so often, but I am in SW Ohio, only about 40min from Indiana and only about 60min from Kentucky, and there are shooting opportunities in both of those states. I am also not really all that much in love with SBRs, especially in 5.56, and the only reason I would want one would be to not have a heavy can hanging off my carbine in a neighboring zip code.
I think Daniel Defense is making one also, and there are several 10-22 options.


Cans are forever purchases and if like to be able to move between hosts or remove for maintenance.
I agree, except for the forever part. I would not expect to be removing it unless there was something wrong with the barrel, and if you are not worried about the barrel the pins can be drilled out with a simple drill press and be ready to be pinned to the next barrel, or swapped over to an SBR if you ever changed your mind in the future.


My use would be a "Sprinter" camping long gun, shot infrequently, but possibly from inside the Sprinter, hence the interest in a suppressor and compact overall length.

Might be a good use for a 300 blackout with subs and supers if needed.
I am thinking if I do it my 300BO would probably be the candidate, the most coolest and most useful. I could buy the thing, and while it sits in jail I could shop around for the short barrel, and then get things all assembled on the upper and test it out adequately on my legit pistol lower before I go off and get things welded up.

So yeah, I have kinda thought about it... :cool:

[El Cid]

I like the concept. What happens if there is a baffle strike? Or if the barrel gets shot out? How difficult would it be to repair and re-pin/weld?

The advantage is that you can get a larger can with more volume if using a short barrel. Most of us use short cans to save OAL on traditional setups. With a 5 to 8” bbl in 300blk you could have 8 to 11” of suppressor.

I do have a 10/22 with the Gemtech Mist-22. Same concept and it’s as quiet as a stapler. I’m very happy with it.

[HeavyDuty]

I don’t know that I personally would do a centerfire like this, but the Ruger integrally silenced 10/22 is tempting.

[mmc45414]

I like the concept. What happens if there is a baffle strike?
Well, I have no actual experience (but have pondered this idea with some diligence), but isn't the cause of baffle strikes typically inadvertent loosening of the can? So in my thinking the P&W would probably insure there isn't going to be a baffle strike?
ETA: And what is the remedy for a baffle strike that would be precluded by being attached to a barrel?


Or if the barrel gets shot out? How difficult would it be to repair and re-pin/weld?
My understanding of this is that for one you want to leave some exposed evidence of the P&W so it can be easily visibly verified as a P&W job. There are also some regulations about what constitutes a valid P&W, there is supposed to be a specific melt point of the weld metal (I actually think it can be more like a super hard solder or something) and the pin does not need to be anything super hard, I actually think there may not be an actual requirement for a pin (ETA: I think the law says "permanently attached"?), like a hole can be drilled through the can and into the barrel, and the hole filled with weld. So the whole thing could be setup in a simple drill press and drilled out without a lot of effort. And if a barrel gets trashed in the process a decent barrel costs less than a second stamp anyway.

[Poconnor]

I don’t think I would want a permanently attached suppressor; but a permanently mounted suppressor shroud to a short barrel to avoid it being an SBR is very interesting. Similar length to a 16” barrel. Remove the suppressor for less weight.

[JRB]

Thunder Beast made the very best option for a pin & weld permanent 5.56 AR suppressor, but sadly it was discontinued:
https://thunderbeastarms.com/products/556-take-down
P&W puts it over 16in and it's user serviceable via removable front cap, leaving the suppressor body on the barrel and maintaining OAL requirements.

As I understand it, Thunder Beast made these to compete for the SURG (Suppressed Upper Receiver Group) contract consideration that was being fielded by the US Mil. It's a shame they're discontinued.


But having shot enough 5.56 suppressed now to make an opinion - with the DI gas system it's so much simpler to match your gas porting (or gas tube, like the BRT EZ Tune tubes) to match perfectly with your specific suppressor and common ammo.
Most short AR's that are reliable on a given ammo will start showing significant port pop/gas to face once any suppressor is mounted on the same combo of ammo, buffer, etc.
So just getting it set up and perfect on a specific can with a specific load is the recipe for happiness. I promise you won't care to shoot an un-suppressed 10-12in 5.56 after you've shot the same rifle with a can on it. Plus, with a pin and weld you never need to worry about concentricity or wacky problems with $200 suppressor mount muzzle devices or anything like that.

My DIY formula for an 'interstate' non-SBR suppressed 5.56 would be a 10.3in-11.5in Daniel Defense, BCM, or Colt upper. Preferably a variant with a pinned gas block. Then I'd go with a simple P&W suppressor like a Gemtech Trek or the Griffin option. Then I'd order a few BRT EZ-tune gas tubes to play with until I found the golidlocks combo that matched my intended ammo and buffer and action spring. Then I'd leave it alone and just enjoy it.

[awp_101]

Maybe an option for one the stop shop if you don't want to mess with getting someone to do the p&w? Plus you can shoot it from the get go while you wait for the stamp for the innards to come though.


https://youtu.be/NPwWFYJsbZA

[MK11]

I've got the YHM upper. I'm pleased with it.

I live in a ban state where SBRs are still possible but require a convoluted process of permanently converting a registered, grandfathered AR. The YHM gives me the same basic overall length of a 10.5 with non-integral suppressor and the option to plop it on any of my lowers (it currently sits on a M&P Tactical lower).

The suppressor and gas system are apparently tuned to work together, which appealed to me as a first-time suppressor buyer. I've had no malfunctions yet and it runs both powder puff .223 and XM193 just fine. Balance is great, gas to the face is noticeable but nowhere near as bad as the Dead Air suppressors I've tried previously. If you're taking a class, you'll want a wrap and a glove but for the range or defensive use, the heat has been a non-issue, to my surprise. It's quieter than I expected--not hearing safe but not debilitating either if you had to fire it indoors. The downside is if you shoot out the barrel, you're stuck with an expensive paper weight.

It's a purpose-driven product that offers no performance advantage to a regular suppressed SBR but it may offer some legal flexibility depending on your situation.

107449

[Chance]

Daniel Defense has done that (https://danieldefense.com/ddm4-isr.html) for a while. Never touched one, I just know it's a thing.

[HeavyDuty]

I've got the YHM upper. I'm pleased with it.

I live in a ban state where SBRs are still possible but require a convoluted process of permanently converting a registered, grandfathered AR. The YHM gives me the same basic overall length of a 10.5 with non-integral suppressor and the option to plop it on any of my lowers (it currently sits on a M&P Tactical lower).

The suppressor and gas system are apparently tuned to work together, which appealed to me as a first-time suppressor buyer. I've had no malfunctions yet and it runs both powder puff .223 and XM193 just fine. Balance is great, gas to the face is noticeable but nowhere near as bad as the Dead Air suppressors I've tried previously. If you're taking a class, you'll want a wrap and a glove but for the range or defensive use, the heat has been a non-issue, to my surprise. It's quieter than I expected--not hearing safe but not debilitating either if you had to fire it indoors. The downside is if you shoot out the barrel, you're stuck with an expensive paper weight.

It's a purpose-driven product that offers no performance advantage to a regular suppressed SBR but it may offer some legal flexibility depending on your situation.

107449

On the advice of my old NH FFL, this is one I’ve considered. I like the concept.