"This is THE Most Underrated Pistol in 2023" ( The PX4)

[Robert Mitchum]

https://youtu.be/9Q4M_a7S8-o

[Guerrero]

And 2022... and 2021... and 2020... etc.

[gato naranja]

I have forgotten just when I started telling people that the PX4 was the best handgun they won't even try, but it had to have been before 2015. Nothing has changed.

As a former Berettaphobe, I can understand not wanting to dink with them on the basis of of the company itself being obtuse back in the day. I can even understand not wanting to dink with, say, something like the Nano, which eventually became a decent pistol when it reemerged as the APX A1 Carry... only to have the P365 steal its lunch and urinate in its thermos.

But the PX4 is - thanks in great part to Ernest Langdon - a very competent pistol that deserves a bit of maturing/optimizing by Beretta like the 92 finally received with the 92X.

[Sensei]

I think that there were other reasons for the lack of popularity that are not discussed in this video:

1) Prior negative experience with the 8000 series Cougar pistols that had a rotating barrel design carried over to a perception that the gun was not reliable due to this design.

2) Internet chatter about the early PX4 was not favorable. If I remember correctly, Todd Green was one of the early critics. Here is a quote from him circa 2009:

"As for the PX4, I've seen too many struggle on the line to have much faith in them. I was working at Beretta when it was being designed and we (the LE/mil team) warned them against using that rotating barrel. It was a disaster in the Cougar and while the PX4 system is improved, it still doesn't work as well as the proven tilt-barrel system.

When the members of Beretta's IDPA/USPSA pistol team were told they had to start using the PX4, most of them quit instead. They quit their paid, sponsored positions rather than shoot the gun. Clue.

Last year I had a handful of Canadian LEOs in a class who are issued the PX4 in .40 S&W. They literally had to bring a mallet with them to the class. A mallet? Yeah, I was confused, too. Then every 300-500 rounds of shooting, their guns would jam shut and they had to use the mallet to get the things apart.

I'm far from a Beretta basher. I'd carry a 92G (or better yet, a 92G Vertec) without losing a moment's sleep. But the PX4 was another misstep from Italy."

It is certainly possible that the early reliability concerns were issues with non-9mm calibers, and the 9mm versions have been good to go from the start but hampered by their 40SW and 45ACP brothers.

[breakingtime91]

Px4 compact is one of those guns I wish I would of spent more time with before I decided strikers were a lot easier for me to master and stopped caring as much about my own personal safety while shooting (did I mention I'm stupid).

Ps. I forgot how well spoken Ernest is

[BobM]

I had a chance a few years ago to put a few rounds through one of the compact LTT PX4s. I liked it but I’m too heavily invested in M&Ps. I suppose if I started exclusively carrying AIWB I might switch.

[Nephrology]

Are there shops besides Langdon that will mill PX4 slides for red dot optics? IMO that seems like far a bigger dealbreaker in 2023.

With Glock/SIG/S&W/etc there are plenty of ways to put a red dot on your gun, often using a factory mounting system. Beretta is still selling 92 model pistols with a flat black iron front sight milled into the slide... May as well come with bayonet

[feudist]

https://media.tenor.com/TbPh1PGIDUkAAAAC/die-hard-welcome-to-the-party.gif

[HeavyDuty]

Crap. More publicity will make it harder to pick up a backup PX4CC at a great price.

[Crusader]

I just don’t want any gun with fire control levers on the slide, just a hard no for me. No matter how good the gun is, I’ll never be able to get over that feature.

[Noah]

I just don’t want any gun with fire control levers on the slide, just a hard no for me. No matter how good the gun is, I’ll never be able to get over that feature.

Is it really a problem for G style decock only system?

[camel]

I think that there were other reasons for the lack of popularity that are not discussed in this video:

1) Prior negative experience with the 8000 series Cougar pistols that had a rotating barrel design carried over to a perception that the gun was not reliable due to this design.

2) Internet chatter about the early PX4 was not favorable. If I remember correctly, Todd Green was one of the early critics. Here is a quote from him circa 2009:

"As for the PX4, I've seen too many struggle on the line to have much faith in them. I was working at Beretta when it was being designed and we (the LE/mil team) warned them against using that rotating barrel. It was a disaster in the Cougar and while the PX4 system is improved, it still doesn't work as well as the proven tilt-barrel system.

When the members of Beretta's IDPA/USPSA pistol team were told they had to start using the PX4, most of them quit instead. They quit their paid, sponsored positions rather than shoot the gun. Clue.

Last year I had a handful of Canadian LEOs in a class who are issued the PX4 in .40 S&W. They literally had to bring a mallet with them to the class. A mallet? Yeah, I was confused, too. Then every 300-500 rounds of shooting, their guns would jam shut and they had to use the mallet to get the things apart.

I'm far from a Beretta basher. I'd carry a 92G (or better yet, a 92G Vertec) without losing a moment's sleep. But the PX4 was another misstep from Italy."

It is certainly possible that the early reliability concerns were issues with non-9mm calibers, and the 9mm versions have been good to go from the start but hampered by their 40SW and 45ACP brothers.

I had the same experiences as him with the px4 line. And I’m a nobody. Not bashing. But it is what it was.

[Jason M]

I just don’t want any gun with fire control levers on the slide, just a hard no for me. No matter how good the gun is, I’ll never be able to get over that feature.

I “grew up” on a S&W 669 and 4566. The slide mounted safety decocker is like coming home. If I could rewind, I would reacquire one and carry it at work.

[gc70]

https://youtu.be/9Q4M_a7S8-o

Eight years later Reeves discovers what Langdon discovered in 2015.

I bet Reeves did not read all 427 pages and 4,269 posts in Langdon's thread about the PX4 (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?16519-The-PX4-Compact-might-be-my-DA-SA-Glock-19).

[JCN]

105978

[camel]

105978

Come on man the px4 ain’t that.

[HeavyDuty]

105978

JCN walks into the clubhouse, farts, turns around and leaves.

[JCN]

JCN walks into the clubhouse, farts, turns around and leaves.

A local hipster was excited about his. He asked me to hold it. He then asked me if I wanted to shoot it...

I politely declined. The huge hunk of plastic just made me feel yuck.

There are so many nice shooting and feeling pistols out there... I just never found a itch that this gun needed to scratch.

[HCM]

Are there shops besides Langdon that will mill PX4 slides for red dot optics? IMO that seems like far a bigger dealbreaker in 2023.

With Glock/SIG/S&W/etc there are plenty of ways to put a red dot on your gun, often using a factory mounting system. Beretta is still selling 92 model pistols with a flat black iron front sight milled into the slide... May as well come with bayonet


No. Adapting the 92 series and PX4 series for RDS involves more than just milling the slide. The internals have to be modified as well.

[HCM]

A local hipster was excited about his. He asked me to hold it. He then asked me if I wanted to shoot it...

I politely declined. The huge hunk of plastic just made me feel yuck.

There are so many nice shooting and feeling pistols out there... I just never found a itch that this gun needed to scratch.

As noted Early PX4s were problematic. Beretta quietly fixed them but it was a real thing at the time.

The stock PX4 (particularly the compact) sucks but grip and trigger work help. The compact needs the slim controls as well.

The PX4 was, at least in part, Berettas attempt to produce a gun that could stand up to .40 cal after the failures of the Beretta 96 and 96A1. Being polymer framed and cheaper to make the 92 series probably didn’t hurt in a market dominated by Glock.

[echo5charlie]

Back in 2017 I was going to make the change to TDA from striker guns. I bought a PX4CC and signed up for a LTT Pistol Skills class that April. I bought extra mags, JMCK holsters and mag pouches, and lots of ammo.

I'll admit, the gun was slick - awesome action and very accurate for me. It also drew blood - hammer spur - which LTT started offering a bobbed version to resolve as I was far from the only one. Then, just maybe 2 weeks before the class, I found that my sweet spot for control and accuracy caused my XL hands to stall the slide out. That was no bueno. So, I tossed the previous investment to the side, dusted off the ol' G17.4 and rocked the class.

I sold that PX4CC off during the pandemic - made all my investment back plus a bit and still have the holsters/mag pouches should I ever be tempted to go down that path again. I seriously doubt I'd give it a go again, but one never knows.....

[HeavyDuty]

Like I mentioned I’m actually doing OK with the PX4CC grip, but I should stick the Talons on to see what I’m missing. I suspect I’ll see the difference if I push things.

[TheNewbie]

Back in 2017 I was going to make the change to TDA from striker guns. I bought a PX4CC and signed up for a LTT Pistol Skills class that April. I bought extra mags, JMCK holsters and mag pouches, and lots of ammo.

I'll admit, the gun was slick - awesome action and very accurate for me. It also drew blood - hammer spur - which LTT started offering a bobbed version to resolve as I was far from the only one. Then, just maybe 2 weeks before the class, I found that my sweet spot for control and accuracy caused my XL hands to stall the slide out. That was no bueno. So, I tossed the previous investment to the side, dusted off the ol' G17.4 and rocked the class.

I sold that PX4CC off during the pandemic - made all my investment back plus a bit and still have the holsters/mag pouches should I ever be tempted to go down that path again. I seriously doubt I'd give it a go again, but one never knows.....


Your grip caused malfunctions? That is something that I wondered about with the PX4.

[HCM]

Back in 2017 I was going to make the change to TDA from striker guns. I bought a PX4CC and signed up for a LTT Pistol Skills class that April. I bought extra mags, JMCK holsters and mag pouches, and lots of ammo.

I'll admit, the gun was slick - awesome action and very accurate for me. It also drew blood - hammer spur - which LTT started offering a bobbed version to resolve as I was far from the only one. Then, just maybe 2 weeks before the class, I found that my sweet spot for control and accuracy caused my XL hands to stall the slide out. That was no bueno. So, I tossed the previous investment to the side, dusted off the ol' G17.4 and rocked the class.

I sold that PX4CC off during the pandemic - made all my investment back plus a bit and still have the holsters/mag pouches should I ever be tempted to go down that path again. I seriously doubt I'd give it a go again, but one never knows.....

I also have XXL hands and had malfunctions with both a standard PX4CC I upgraded and a “from Beretta” LTT version. It never drew blood though.

[Screwball]

Had 2… .45 and 9mm. I did like them, but just another gun I rarely shot. The .45 grip was very comfortable, especially compared to the .45 Glocks. The .45 was replaced by a Glock 30S… mainly because of agencies moving to Glocks. Sold it to consolidate to 9mm.

The 9mm was a good gun, but bought it when NJ was a 15 round state. Had a bunch of 15 round magazines, which took a vacation to PA prior to moving to ME. Then… why would I want a gun with 15 round magazines when I could have 17 rounders? My CZ75 SP01 was in a similar boat… but I really liked that gun. Sold the PX4 and swapped CZ75 magazines from 15 to 17. It also allowed me to sell the PX4 setup for my CX4… which now just takes 92 magazines.

I keep tossing around getting a 9mm PX4 Compact to have as a spare carry gun… but money can go to more important stuff. Lab has a growth on her ear that will be taken off next month, probably will be about the same costs. But to be fair, I’d probably get an older Hi-Power (C&R) before the PX4.

[echo5charlie]

Your grip caused malfunctions? That is something that I wondered about with the PX4.

Yep. The cocking serrations fore and aft did not jive with my grip. Or vice-versa.

[echo5charlie]

I also have XXL hands and had malfunctions with both a standard PX4CC I upgraded and a “from Beretta” LTT version. It never drew blood though.

The hammer spur was the cause, once I got the initial LTT modified & NP3'd bobbed version I created the slide issues. It just wasn't meant to be for me I guess.

[Edster]

I went through a brief phase of trying rental guns during range visits. It was an experiment in "If I wasn't invested in Glock 9mms, what else could work?"

With the caveat that these were rental guns, the PX4 was the only one I shot well enough to seriously consider. It was accurate for me and the TDA manual of arms wasn't enough of a change to scare me away.

So what keeps me from buying one? The whole "underrated pistol" thing is pretty much an admission they aren't getting the market acceptance that guarantees they (and their parts) will still be available in ten years.

[Crusader]

Is it really a problem for G style decock only system?

For me yes, anything on the slide besides sights and serrations are a no go. Over a decade ago I got rid of all my double action single action guns. Found it to be too much work to stay proficient with three different types of triggers, two I can handle and prefer striker and single action.

[Noah]

For me yes, anything on the slide besides sights and serrations are a no go. Over a decade ago I got rid of all my double action single action guns. Found it to be too much work to stay proficient with three different types of triggers, two I can handle and prefer striker and single action.

Ah, I understand that.

[Evil_Ed]

I bought a normal PX4 Compact, put in a Beretta Competition hammer pack with a...12? 13? lb hammer spring from Wilson Combat (I don't remember the weight but it was discussed in the big PX4 thread somewhere), put on a single side slide stop lever, larger mag release, the stealth decocker levers...great gun. It really does shoot above it's weight class. It also totally freaking disappears AIWB; the sloping curve on the rear of the slide really breaks up it's profile vs the square Glock slide. I wore one tucked in in a suit, and I could NOT make it print, even with my shirt pulled in taut over it. The Discrete Carry Clips on my JMCK holster were more visible than anything else.

Since PX4 Compacts were dirt cheap not that long ago, when you step into a used one at $200 and throw the parts above at it...you're just shy of a Compact Carry price wise, and have a gun that's all that and potentially then some. Still needs good sights though.

The only reason I'm not %100 super duper all in and sell everything and concentrate on this one...there's no ACRO/MPS optic plate/cut for it. Though I guess with the 509T and the EPS that's not such a big deal anymore if you can stomach Holosun. I'm really tempted to send it off and get a cut and live with Holosun, or maybe even spend the money and buy a new LTT worked over version fresh from Earnest's mines of excellence..

I also have XL hands and have not run into hammer spur issues or slide bite issues - but I'm also not nearly at the level of shooting as a few people here are so I don't know if it's me, a lack of practice/training, or what. Maybe it just works out for me, like some people can shoot a BHP all day and not get bit by it...I can't even look at one without welts forming and my hand starting to drip blood.

The grip slickness issue is a real thing though. Now that I'm not constantly taking the grip module apart to fiddle with the hammer pack, I could probably go back to using a Talon grip panel (their "pro" version, for sure) vs the moleskin-type thing I've currently got wrapped around it. I bought this stuff from amazon a while ago (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00QXL0TPG) and it works really well; think a thick moleskin, or the Brooks AGrip type of stuff. When I first got the gun I put the rubber Talon grips on it with the medium backstrap, quickly realized I needed to swap to a large backstrap, then I needed to reseat something in the hammer pack, etc...I wound up removing the Talon grips because I was constantly removing the backstrap and stuff. This microsuede stuff was a LOT cheaper, and I could reapply it several times; I made a template out of the backer from the Talon grips and used that. I've had it on my gun for maybe 3 years now and it's held up though the edges are getting a little frayed. It's not really grippy if your hands are dry (as an IT guy in climate controlled rooms, your hands can get really dry) but starts working better as your hands get more hydrated, even outright wet they work great.

[Guerrero]

Guys, guys, guys...

he didn't say, "The PX4 is the perfect pistol for everyone." What James is saying is that the PX4 deserves to be considered at the same level as other "good" guns in the same class (Glock, Sig [insert P320 joke here], HK, etc.)



I didn't know the thing about the interaction between the recoil spring and a striker on striker-fired guns.

https://cdn.theatlantic.com/thumbor/MLohW43SjM8-7WuJ677oJnB25-U=/0x105:1280x825/976x549/media/img/mt/2014/09/The_More_You_Know/original.png

[Guerrero]

Last year I had a handful of Canadian LEOs in a class who are issued the PX4 in .40 S&W. They literally had to bring a mallet with them to the class. A mallet? Yeah, I was confused, too. Then every 300-500 rounds of shooting, their guns would jam shut and they had to use the mallet to get the things apart.

My memory is fuzzy: what ended up being the root cause for this? LangdonTactical ?

[Hot Sauce]

Since PX4 Compacts were dirt cheap not that long ago, when you step into a used one at $200 and throw the parts above at it...you're just shy of a Compact Carry price wise, and have a gun that's all that and potentially then some. Still needs good sights though.


Did you say $200?!

[vcdgrips]

The safety moves in a counterintuitive manner and can be inadvertently activated when vigorously manipulating the slide. These facts form the basis of my core objection to the 92 as well. I fully acknowledge that the inadvertent manipulation issue may not be as prevalent with the PX4 as it is with the 92.

Those facts coupled with my 30+ year utilization of pre gen 4 Glocks has me saying “meh.”

I recognize the platform to be reasonably accurate, reliable and supported by the factory and non OEM quality stuff from LTT and others. But for the safety, it would have my “endorsement” if asked by a friend/associate re its suitability as a primary defensive firearm and/or EDC.

[HeavyDuty]

I think it’s time to get my PX4CC slide back to Langdon for a RDO cut, probably a EPS Carry. Time to crunch numbers, I’ve been a little profligate with the gun budget lately.

[WobblyPossum]

The safety moves in a counterintuitive manner and can be inadvertently activated when vigorously manipulating the slide. These facts form the basis of my core objection to the 92 as well. I fully acknowledge that the inadvertent manipulation issue may not be as prevalent with the PX4 as it is with the 92.

Those facts coupled with my 30+ year utilization of pre gen 4 Glocks has me saying “meh.”

I recognize the platform to be reasonably accurate, reliable and supported by the factory and non OEM quality stuff from LTT and others. But for the safety, it would have my “endorsement” if asked by a friend/associate re its suitability as a primary defensive firearm and/or EDC.

Pretty much everyone here who carries a Beretta 92 or PX4 by choice, as opposed to by work requirement, uses a G configuration which doesn’t have the manual safety at all. The slide mounted control becomes strictly a decocker and once you activate it to decock the gun, it springs back up.

ETA: Beretta sells the 92G levers for about $50. With a PX4 it’s as simple as popping out a little detent in the safety to turn it into a decocker only. The slimmer decockers cost about what the 92G levers do.

[JAH 3rd]

I've had a PX4 compact for about 18 months now. The only thing I have done to it was to install an OEM Beretta D-spring. Posting a link. The spring gets good reviews. It makes the DA trigger pull a pleasure. The DA is smooth and predictable. In fact if it was a DAO, I'd be well served with the trigger pull the D-spring provides. I don't have a trigger pull gauge to measure poundage.

My only complaint is the lack of grip traction, it is too slick. I know there are options to address this. Just with it came out of the box with the more traction.

Seems the PX4 has upgrade parts just like the 92 series......sights, slide release lever, and thumb safety profiles....although not to the extent of Glock or the 1911.


https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/eu00043

[gc70]

I didn't know the thing about the interaction between the recoil spring and a striker on striker-fired guns.

Hammer-fired guns are cocked as the slide opens.
Striker-fired guns are cocked as the slide closes.

Part of the slide's recoil force in hammer-fired guns goes to cock the hammer and rest of the recoil force is stored in the recoil spring.
Striker-fired guns store all of the slide's recoil force in the recoil spring.

Recoil springs in hammer-fired guns only have to be strong enough to load a round while pulling the slide forward into battery.
Recoil springs in striker-fired guns have to be strong enough to load a round while pulling the slide into battery as well as cocking the striker.

In short, recoil springs do not have to be as strong in a hammer-fired system as in a striker-fired system (all other things being equal, etc.).

[EVP]

So what keeps me from buying one? The whole "underrated pistol" thing is pretty much an admission they aren't getting the market acceptance that guarantees they (and their parts) will still be available in ten years.


In the interview Ernest said that the px4 has been successful internationally with multiple big contracts and is not going anywhere.

[Mark D]

I'm with @JCN (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=17839) on this one.

I drank the Px4 cool aide in 2018/2019 and acquired a full size version. I did the G conversion (decock only), installed a LTT trigger job in a bag, put on new sights (which are bitch to change, by the way), bought mags and holsters and put 1500 rounds through it, including a 2-day class with Ernest. (The class was excellent).

At the end of that experiment, I dusted off my old Gen 3 G19 and realized it was a far superior pistol, that I am capable of shooting much better. The Px4 went down the road shortly thereafter.

On the upside, my log book shows zero malfunctions with the Px4. But in a world of excellent pistols, the Px series are meh. I'm all-in on glocks, but f I had to carry a TDA pistol, it would probably be a HK P2000 worked over by LTT.

[No.6]

So what keeps me from buying one? The whole "underrated pistol" thing is pretty much an admission they aren't getting the market acceptance that guarantees they (and their parts) will still be available in ten years.

In the interview Ernest said that the px4 has been successful internationally with multiple big contracts and is not going anywhere.


Yea, that may not have been Ed's greatest comment. I can still readily find parts for my 8045. Beretta's not exactly a Johnny-come-lately.

I find these comments kind of amusing, given the PX4C thread is 427 pages and PX4 Storm Tracker's .45 thread is 57 pages full of goodness. For my own part, since obviously the PX4 isn't ever going to become a micro-9, my wish list to Ernest would be the full treatment on the JXF5F25 (.45 model).

[Evil_Ed]

Did you say $200?!

I did; believe it or not I picked up my last one right before the pandemic kicked off in earnest in early 2020. Price out the door was around $225 I think, something stupid like that. If I had waited a few weeks I'm sure the price would have been insanely higher..

Edit - to be clear, this was a used gun, not a new one...it wasn't used all that much but it did have some carry wear to the slide. Someone clearly carried this thing for a bit but I guess they decided to go another direction...

[Edster]

Yea, that may not have been Ed's greatest comment. I can still readily find parts for my 8045. Beretta's not exactly a Johnny-come-lately.

I find these comments kind of amusing, given the PX4C thread is 427 pages and PX4 Storm Tracker's .45 thread is 57 pages full of goodness. For my own part, since obviously the PX4 isn't ever going to become a micro-9, my wish list to Ernest would be the full treatment on the JXF5F25 (.45 model).

Fair points. Thanks.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I have noticed that the PX4 Storm line has a polarizing effect frequently.

On one side you have testimonies like Ernest's about setting personal best records with one, carrying one daily and other things in this video. I administrate a Facebook group for the PX4 that has over 24,500 members internationally that love, like or want to learn about this pistol.

On the other side there are many that have just as strong of dislikes for the pistol. This is not only on this forum, but elsewhere too.

Whichever side of the perspective, or a neutral, "just not my cup of tea" disinterest... It is evident that the PX4 has character... to be so polarizing.


I currently have 7 "being used" PX4s that experience none of the issues some have expressed (I have had well over a dozen and get reports from group members around the world)... with around 300,000 rounds through PX4s with reliable, accurate performance.. we like them.

It is a matter of taste, preference and personal fit. But it is evident that this line of pistols has made a splash!

[Crusader]

Agree with the above, the PX4 is a very solid handgun. I don’t like it mainly because of the location of the fire control, DA/SA just not what I prefer.

But I’ve said this for a long time when it comes to hardware, any quality modern handgun is fully capable of doing the job if you are. Give me a PX4 and let me train with it for awhile and I’ll be more than competent with it.

We all like what we like, but just because it may not be our favorite doesn’t mean it’s not a darn good gun. Those that fall in line with the extreme fanboy mentality of if it’s not a ….. it’s garbage are usually posers that can barely hit the broad side of a barn at 10 yards.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Did you say $200?!

I have a PX4 full size I traded for a pistol I bought for $200. It was well used with a bunch of scratches on the slide. It mostly sat in the safe for a few years.

Late last year I took it shooting on a whim and couldn't beleive how well I shot it. It has proven to be reliable with hollowpoints and reliable when dry and/or dirty. I then upgraded it with carry levers, a much lighter mainspring, and the LTT RDO cut with a Holosun EPS. That means I spent over 3X what I initially spent on the gun to give it a red dot, and I dont regret it one bit.

It has become my main shooting pistol and full size carry gun. I own a bunch of TDAs with worked over triggers, and I seem to shoot the PX4 just as well or better than any of them, despirlte it having an objectively much "worse" trigger, especially in SA. For the grip I added a single piece of grip tape to the left side.

Only real cons, It is bulkier than I would like for carry due to the thiccness. I also wish it had a metal trigger shoe, and of course better grip texture. It would be so cool if Beretta relaunched the PX4 as a 9mm only Chassis gun that took 92 mags.

PS for anyone looking to upgrade the decocker levers, the carry levers are PERFECT. The factory ones are way too big, and the stealth required too much effort to decock.

[Evil_Ed]

PS for anyone looking to upgrade the decocker levers, the carry levers are PERFECT. The factory ones are way too big, and the stealth required too much effort to decock.

I wish the carry levers were around (or at least I knew of them) before I got the stealth levers - BUT the stealth levers are really not bad at all. I found the easiest way to use them was with my non-dominant hand. Draw, fire, and as I'm withdrawing the weapon to ready, my off-hand thumb rotates the lever down on the slide. I mean it's right there (along with my shooting hand thumb) but because it's got more leverage and is free-floating...it's a lot easier to push in and put enough force on it to not slip, and rotate it down easier. It's a lot easier to show it than it is to explain it. Once you do it a couple of times it becomes really natural to do it that way, and %99 of the time you'll be shooting two-handed, and won't need to use just your strong hand to decock the gun anyway. Works just fine with the other lever styles as well.

[HeavyDuty]

I’ve used my off hand to decock/on safe slide mounted levers for years, going back to my 3913. I don’t like the grip break needed to thumb down the safety or decocker, plus I have a bad right thumb.

[PNWTO]

This is a difficult thread because I put off getting the full-sized Px4 9mm for a long time, then WA becomes a 10rd state so the motivation isn’t there anymore.

I was planning on a LGS trip to re-examine the Hk45 again; even though I wasn’t too inspired by shooting the Px4 .45 in the past, maybe I’ll see if there’s one to handle.

[TheNewbie]

This is a difficult thread because I put off getting the full-sized Px4 9mm for a long time, then WA becomes a 10rd state so the motivation isn’t there anymore.

I was planning on a LGS trip to re-examine the Hk45 again; even though I wasn’t too inspired by shooting the Px4 .45 in the past, maybe I’ll see if there’s one to handle.


What did you not like about the PX4 .45?

[PNWTO]

What did you not like about the PX4 .45?


Nice trigger, but not in the same league as friend’s tuned P220.
Grip seemed slick/awkward.
I felt the recoil track was fairly horizontal. Not necessarily a bad thing.
Multiple stoppages during about 200rds or so.
Did I mention it was be handled/shot with a tuned P220 and a MP45 with some aftermarket guts?


All very subjective and that was a touch over a decade ago. So probably worthless observations that I shouldn’t have held on to in memory. I played with a Langdon Px4 last summer and was utterly impressed.

Not to derail but I would enjoy the opportunity to rent one for a bit and reassess. Although for my intentions and planned use I think the HK would be the better fit.

[MattyD380]

The PX4 Compact Carry was the pistol that brought me to Pistol Forum. I still own it. Still love it. I don't carry it that much... but, in terms of just effortlessly placing rounds on target with precision, finesse and a big freakin' smile on your face: the PX4 excels. At least it does for me.

The clip of James shooting the PX4 faster and faster while Ernest is timing him--that's legit. It's hard to miss with the damn thing, even shooting reasonably fast. Plus, it shoots flat, it shoots soft, it shoots all the good ways you want it to shoot. Other guns are accurate. Other guns feel great. But the PX4 just makes the accuracy so effortlessly available--in its own plush and pillowy kinda way.

106030

On the other hand...

It's very fat. It looks weird. And, as with every Beretta I've owned (with the exception of my Cheetah), I often find it challenging to keep my sight picture stable when the hammer falls in DA. I'm guessing it's mainly overtravel. And/or me sucking.

But in SA... nothing shoots like a PX4.

[Crusader]

Another question that must be asked related to this. Way do most new Beretta hand guns always fall flat with popularity in the U.S.

I think a lot of it has to do with Beretta always going a bit to unconventional. Case in point the APX, most US customers were just not interested in a handgun with a lumpy slide. Especially since the lumpy slide was actually less grippy than conventional slide serrations. They corrected that with the APXa1 but damage done, the APXa1 is a pretty good gun. It sells pretty well over seas but crickets here.

I think often Beretta goes with style over substance and it bites them in the butt, at least here in the states.

[camel]

The PX4 Compact Carry was the pistol that brought me to Pistol Forum. I still own it. Still love it. I don't carry it that much... but, in terms of just effortlessly placing rounds on target with precision, finesse and a big freakin' smile on your face: the PX4 excels. At least it does for me.

The clip of James shooting the PX4 faster and faster while Ernest is timing him--that's legit. It's hard to miss with the damn thing, even shooting reasonably fast. Plus, it shoots flat, it shoots soft, it shoots all the good ways you want it to shoot. Other guns are accurate. Other guns feel great. But the PX4 just makes the accuracy so effortlessly available--in its own plush and pillowy kinda way.

106030

On the other hand...

It's very fat. It looks weird. And, as with every Beretta I've owned (with the exception of my Cheetah), I often find it challenging to keep my sight picture stable when the hammer falls in DA. I'm guessing it's mainly overtravel. And/or me sucking.

But in SA... nothing shoots like a PX4.

How do you like a da/sa trigger. Single action can be very smooth. But I can do better with a transition point.

[PNWTO]

I think often Beretta goes with style over substance and it bites them in the butt, at least here in the states.

I think, back in the early days of P-F, TLG said something along the lines of “Beretta couldn’t market free sex.”

That aside, I think a few factors keep them a bit suppressed in our domestic market, including:


In the USA, they are defined by the M9 and the basic 92FS; and 80s/90s action shows. So a craving for “modernity” goes against their flagship.
Centric to the 92 series, it’s a SFA world and TDA can’t compete in the mass market. Of late, Springfield learned this and chose to give a pretty decent offering the “Ol’ Yeller.”
Why the Italians chose to be pretty humdrum about the APX series I have no idea.
Beretta doesn’t dump guns to every influencer they can find. <cough cough P320>

[camel]

I think, back in the early days of P-F, TLG said something along the lines of “Beretta couldn’t market free sex.”

That aside, I think a few factors keep them a bit suppressed in our domestic market, including:


In the USA, they are defined by the M9 and the basic 92FS; and 80s/90s action shows. So a craving for “modernity” goes against their flagship.
Centric to the 92 series, it’s a SFA world and TDA can’t compete in the mass market. Of late, Springfield learned this and chose to give a pretty decent offering the “Ol’ Yeller.”
Why the Italians chose to be pretty humdrum about the APX series I have no idea.
Beretta doesn’t dump guns to every influencer they can find. <cough cough P320>



I think you are wrong. At least to my eye. But. That might also be right.

[PNWTO]

I think you are wrong. At least to my eye. But. That might also be right.

Oh I probably am, broad brushstrokes about EU brands and whatnot.

Regardless, I’m happy the company is getting some attention. And kicking myself for walking away from a Px4 CC multiple times.

[camel]

Oh I probably am, broad brushstrokes about EU brands and whatnot.

Regardless, I’m happy the company is getting some attention. And kicking myself for walking away from a Px4 CC multiple times.

Yea. I get it.

[arcticlightfighter]

Just sold mine today … unfortunately need the cash

[Mark D]

I think, back in the early days of P-F, TLG said something along the lines of “Beretta couldn’t market free sex.”


My dislike of the PX4 not withstanding, I think Beretta has gotten a lot better with their US marketing in the past few years. Some folks have suggested Beretta started working harder for civilian sales once the M9 wasn't the official US military sidearm. They've done some smart stuff:

1) They picked up JJ Racaza as a sponsored shooter. JJ is an excellent brand ambassador.
2) They partnered with Ernest/LTT and support his semi-custom guns.
3) They have embraced online sales of pistol part (https://www.beretta.com/en-us/gun-accessories/handguns/)s.

[Greg Bell]

Well, I finally broke fown and bought one for my birthday. Should be here next week. Damn this forum!

[LangdonTactical]

My memory is fuzzy: what ended up being the root cause for this? LangdonTactical ?

I remember Todd talking about this. I asked him about it and he had no other details.

So, I will give you three things to think about.

1) The only thing that makes any since to me is ammo. That is the only thing I have seen that makes you have to beat the gun open, and it keep working after that. Long cases is normally what causes this issue.

2) If a police department wants to get away from a gun, they will have issues with the gun! It does not matter what gun it is or how good the gun is. If the staff at the range wants to move to a different gun, they are going to have issues with the guns they have.

3) Todd hated the PX4 because at the time, he hated Beretta. The leadership had pissed him off personally, and he was still very angry at them. The PX4 was also the new gun that Beretta was trying to force everyone to like. They did it by not building the guns we all loved. The Vertex went away, the Elite and Elite II went away. The G-SD went away. All because Beretta wanted the sales force to sell the PX4. There are a lot more details, but for those that loved the 92 (and Todd did love the 92) forcing the PX4 on us at the expense of the 92s we love did not go over well.

I have never had to beat a PX4 apart, but I have had to beat other guns apart. Almost always because of Ammo.

[Sensei]

Thank you LangdonTactical. While I’m too invested in other DA/SA platforms to make the switch to the PX4, I really appreciate your contributions to this thread and the various platforms that you’ve improved. Specifically, your trigger job in a bag for the 92 series has dramatically improved my understanding and enjoyment of the platform. I bet that other forum members have also enjoyed the same renaissance of the platform that many of us carried into combat for decades. Here is my son’s pistol; he is 12. He helped me install your parts…

106057

[MrInox]

My singular and dealbreaking issue with the px4 is where the double action trigger sits…..waaaaay out there……it’s a chore to shoot for my short fingers………the classic sig p series (226/229) seem to be the only DA/SA guns that feel just right for me as far as trigger reach in DA goes…..i wouldn’t mind trying a 3rd gen smith……

[TheNewbie]

I remember Todd talking about this. I asked him about it and he had no other details.

So, I will give you three things to think about.

1) The only thing that makes any since to me is ammo. That is the only thing I have seen that makes you have to beat the gun open, and it keep working after that. Long cases is normally what causes this issue.

2) If a police department wants to get away from a gun, they will have issues with the gun! It does not matter what gun it is or how good the gun is. If the staff at the range wants to move to a different gun, they are going to have issues with the guns they have.

3) Todd hated the PX4 because at the time, he hated Beretta. The leadership had pissed him off personally, and he was still very angry at them. The PX4 was also the new gun that Beretta was trying to force everyone to like. They did it by not building the guns we all loved. The Vertex went away, the Elite and Elite II went away. The G-SD went away. All because Beretta wanted the sales force to sell the PX4. There are a lot more details, but for those that loved the 92 (and Todd did love the 92) forcing the PX4 on us at the expense of the 92s we love did not go over well.

I have never had to beat a PX4 apart, but I have had to beat other guns apart. Almost always because of Ammo.



Thank you for this response.


Do you think there is a common issue of grip causing “slide drag”? I use a pretty aggressive thumbs forward grip, and I wonder if the PX4 is more sensitive to a thumb contacting the slide causing issues vs other guns.


Hopefully that makes sense.

[MattyD380]

How do you like a da/sa trigger. Single action can be very smooth. But I can do better with a transition point.

The SA trigger on mine is absolutely fantastic. Ernest actually did a little work on it (thanks!). I have the 12lb Wilson hammer spring in mine and the DA is nice and light (for a DA). I'd say 8ish pounds? But, like I said, I experience a bit more of a "jostle" with the PX4 (and the 92) when the hammer falls in DA. More than I do with Sigs and 3rd gen Smiths (and old-school DA/SA Walthers). It seems like no matter how hard I squeeze, I can't keep the gun completely immobilized when the hammer falls in DA. Maybe that's a training issue. Maybe it's because I have small hands and it's hard to keep the gun pinned down. But... I don't experience that phenomenon on a P239, for instance. Or a 5906.

[No.6]

It's very fat. It looks weird. And, as with every Beretta I've owned (with the exception of my Cheetah), I often find it challenging to keep my sight picture stable when the hammer falls in DA. I'm guessing it's mainly overtravel. And/or me sucking.


For my part I find the relatively inexpensive laser 'bullets' great for this purpose. Easy to see a poor pull (not only off but 'streaking') and repeat, and repeat, and repeat. Got a stack of cheapo batteries for it, and then bought the .45 version for the Cougar. Perfect for DA or DAO practice; less so with my Glocks (stop, rack, do again. Stop, rack, ...)

As far as marketing Beretta could really stand to woo some manufacturers of gear. I can easily find any sort of holster I want for a 365, and of course for Glock, or a Bersa, or a Taurus, or a Ruger ... but select PX4 from those makers and options go to slim or none. I ended up buying from Beretta direct and am happy, but if one wanted to purchase today and carry tomorrow? Similarly sight selection (thanks LTT for working with Ameriglo ... but you can't even find the reference outside Beretta, even on Ameriglo's site) and so forth. As a result purchases are really limited to the people who already know what they want and how to get it IMO.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

... I was planning on a LGS trip to re-examine the Hk45 again; even though I wasn’t too inspired by shooting the Px4 .45 in the past, maybe I’ll see if there’s one to handle.

I thought it might be useful for me to share some experience and comparison between the PX4 45 and the HK45. As you know, I have a few PX4 45s. I also have a nice new HK45 v1. I got it to fire lots of +Ps and maybe 45 Supers at some point.

I like the ergonomics of the HK for the purpose I use it for. When I try to go fast, move fast, rapid fire, etc., it is tall, lanky, and less agile than the Storm. It is true that I am so used to the PX4 that anything else would seem awkward, but I do like the HK45 for my purposes and am used to it.

The HK45 DA trigger pull was way over 10# and the single action was over 5# and creepy, reset was very long. I installed a GrayGuns short reset kit, nickel competition sear spring and 11# hammer spring, cleaned and lubricated internals, added an ambidextrous decocker/safety lever and that helped a lot. DA is now 9# and the SA is 4#. Reset is still longer than a stock PX4 and the SA is still a little creepy and long, but it is much improved. It improved more with the modifications than my HKP30sk v3, which received a GrayGuns kit and Dawson Precision sights.

On the other hand the PX4 45s offer a 6# 4oz DA and 3# 12oz crisp single action with a reduced power hammer spring.

The HK45 absorbs recoil better and the slide rebound spring is strong... so much so that I use hotter ammo and the brass still doesn't go far.

If I remember correctly, you like to clean your pistols only once per year (after a case of ammo, I think). Both the PX4 and the HK45 will tolerate that well.

[camel]

The SA trigger on mine is absolutely fantastic. Ernest actually did a little work on it (thanks!). I have the 12lb Wilson hammer spring in mine and the DA is nice and light (for a DA). I'd say 8ish pounds? But, like I said, I experience a bit more of a "jostle" with the PX4 (and the 92) when the hammer falls in DA. More than I do with Sigs and 3rd gen Smiths (and old-school DA/SA Walthers). It seems like no matter how hard I squeeze, I can't keep the gun completely immobilized when the hammer falls in DA. Maybe that's a training issue. Maybe it's because I have small hands and it's hard to keep the gun pinned down. But... I don't experience that phenomenon on a P239, for instance. Or a 5906.

I would try some skateboard tape on the back strap and go from there. That little jostle might be your hands trying to control what your eyes see. At least in my opinion. And just left up on the grip. That might be counterintuitive but with the slickness of polymer and I’m sorry the px4 while nice ergonomically for myself and I haven’t tried Langdon. I had a bad experience with one it really did just suck. They are fine pistols. But the grip is a lot different from a 3rd gen smith a beretta or a sig.

[PNWTO]

If I remember correctly, you like to clean your pistols only once per year (after a case of ammo, I think). Both the PX4 and the HK45 will tolerate that well.


Better than my own brain. That must have been a few years back, no longer having 7-10k round years but, yeah, I don't clean my autoloaders very often.

I need to revisit the Px4 .45 but I am thinking, for the situation=tool, the HK is getting in the queue for purchase.

To thread, and dammit P-F, I lament about missing out on the Px4 CC... but I assume the 10rd mags are G2G?

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Better than my own brain. That must have been a few years back, no longer having 7-10k round years but, yeah, I don't clean my autoloaders very often.

I need to revisit the Px4 .45 but I am thinking, for the situation=tool, the HK is getting in the queue for purchase.

To thread, and dammit P-F, I lament about missing out on the Px4 CC... but I assume the 10rd mags are G2G?

Though I have not needed to experience a 10-round magazine for a Compact, I have never heard of any problems with them. They should be good to go.

[HeavyDuty]

Better than my own brain. That must have been a few years back, no longer having 7-10k round years but, yeah, I don't clean my autoloaders very often.

I need to revisit the Px4 .45 but I am thinking, for the situation=tool, the HK is getting in the queue for purchase.

To thread, and dammit P-F, I lament about missing out on the Px4 CC... but I assume the 10rd mags are G2G?

If you get a chance to try a .45 PX4, take it - mine is quite impressive.

[Biggy]

I would like try out the PX4 full size 9mm pistol at an indoor range somewhere in my area. *I* think I would rather have the 4" inch barrel and the longer grip of the full size PX4 pistol. I carry AIWB so I prefer pistols like my Cajunized DA/SA CZ's (P-O1 Omega and P-O7) pistols. I currently have just one striker fired pistol, a P365 XL upper and a MS FCU waiting on the Wilson Combat MACRO grip modules to drop in July. *My* striker fired pistols have to have either a manual thumb safety or if a Glock or Shadow Systems a SCD installed on them. When competed I would like to shoot my Sig P365 XL with Wilson Combat Macro grip module vs a LTT custom PX4 full size pistol and the winner stays and the loser goes.

[Ben_G]

So what keeps me from buying one? The whole "underrated pistol" thing is pretty much an admission they aren't getting the market acceptance that guarantees they (and their parts) will still be available in ten years.

Beretta Italy has a number of active international military/federal LE contracts that require a minimum of 10 years of parts support availability post final delivery. To support this, there's some other irons in the fire for the commercial market to keep the line going. As far as I'm aware (and I'm fairly in-the-know on this one), PX4 parts availability isn't going to be a problem anytime soon.


My memory is fuzzy: what ended up being the root cause for this? LangdonTactical ?

This is third hand, but the story I'd heard was the Canadian LE group that had to hammer their guns open was a compounding issue of the first gen's tight tolerances (the first year or two of production), combined with them using a lubricant with a pretty high freeze point in an environment that NEEDED a super low freeze point compound (in part as a protest because the officers didn't want to switch from their old guns, and this gives them a reason to go back). I was told those guns simply froze up with warm weather oil in a very cold environment, but again, this is rumor.


As for the company's history/batting record with USA launches and marketing on pistols? Part of it is a culture/translation thing; it comes with being an international company. Another part is that a lot of our team on the sales side has historically had their foundations in the hunting side of the business; we have a LOT of expert shotgun salesmen, and so those launches tend to go well. That said, the Beretta that pissed TLG off by stopping things like the Elite and the G-SD just to shift focus to a new platform is pretty well in the past. We've made (what I hope is) great progress in trying to do better about listening to our customer base, as well as trying to prioritize products that play to our strengths.

[JTQ]

I don't know what was behind the Canadian PX4 lock-ups, but lubrication would have been my guess.

In this era of Glock lubrication, where more lubrication is considered a bad thing, under lubricating the PX4 and not lubricating the proper points - which are different than the typical Browning action pistol - is probably not going to help function.


I am kind of intrigued by the guys that have gotten slide or hammer bit by the PX4, and especially that the slide bite isn't an issue with their Glocks. I don't doubt that it happened, I just find it intriguing. The PX4 back strap above the web of the hand is a pretty robust area which seems like an extremely high grip would be limited by the physical shape of the gun, and the PX4 isn't known as a super low bore axis gun like the Glock. I have small, thin hands, so perhaps that's why the PX4 hasn't given me trouble, but I'd expect more slide bite issues with a Glock than with a PX4.

[Stony Lane]

https://thecastlearms.com/product/beretta-usa-jxf9f21-px4-storm-full-size-9mm-luger-4-171-black-black-interchangeable-backstrap-grip-1?utm_campaign=Untitled_Campaign_418&utm_content=touchpoint_1_lastemail&utm_medium=email&utm_source=zaius#product_detail

[revchuck38]

https://thecastlearms.com/product/beretta-usa-jxf9f21-px4-storm-full-size-9mm-luger-4-171-black-black-interchangeable-backstrap-grip-1?utm_campaign=Untitled_Campaign_418&utm_content=touchpoint_1_lastemail&utm_medium=email&utm_source=zaius#product_detail

That's about what I have in my D version, including the trip to LTT for a trigger job. ;) AIM Surplus had them for $249. Still not a bad price if they're in the condition they claim.

[Hot Sauce]

Were DAO Compact models ever produced?

[revchuck38]

Were DAO Compact models ever produced?

To the best of my knowledge, no. I'm pretty sure the D versions were produced for LE contracts. The slide, firing pin, and probably other parts for the D model are specific to that model. I don't know what parts are common between the F/G full-size and compact; Beretta may have figured that it wouldn't be cost-effective to offer a compact version of the D if there were more model-specific parts than those.

Ben_G?

[LangdonTactical]

Thank you for this response.


Do you think there is a common issue of grip causing “slide drag”? I use a pretty aggressive thumbs forward grip, and I wonder if the PX4 is more sensitive to a thumb contacting the slide causing issues vs other guns.


Hopefully that makes sense.

I think that pushing your thumbs into the slide is a bad idea with any gun. I have seen people cause malfunctions on pretty much any handgun with outside pressure on the slide. Many years ago, it was taught not to make contact with the moving parts of the gun.

[MattyD380]

To support this, there's some other irons in the fire for the commercial market to keep the line going.

I know you can't tell us anything. But if you could... I hope you'd tell us a compact .45 is coming. I mean, the .45 PX4 Compact is literally listed in the manual. So, I know it has an 8rd capacity, a 90mm barrel and a 176mm overall length. Just pull it off the shelf and put it on a boat.

I owned a 8045 Cougar for a minute... the rotating barrel is just dreamy in .45. The soft, silky recoil impulse seems to suit the big, slow shove of the .45. And it'd be nice to have something a touch handier than the full-size PX4 in .45.

[Noah]

I know you can't tell us anything. But if you could... I hope you'd tell us a compact .45 is coming. I mean, the .45 PX4 Compact is literally listed in the manual. So, I know it has an 8rd capacity, a 90mm barrel and a 176mm overall length. Just pull it off the shelf and put it on a boat.

I owned a 8045 Cougar for a minute... the rotating barrel is just dreamy in .45. The soft, silky recoil impulse seems to suit the big, slow shove of the .45. And it'd be nice to have something a touch handier than the full-size PX4 in .45.

Thread drift, but the market for polymer frame, CCW .40s and .45s is just gone vs prior decades. .45 releases are now limited to the same category as 10mm for outdoors/hunting handguns. All the .45s and 10mms released in the last 5-10 years I can think of like the P220 10mm hunter version, the FN 510 and 545, and the gen 5 G30/G21 fit this mold. Notice the lack of a Gen 5 G29, G30, or G36.

Releasing new compact .45s just doesn't really make sense. The first carry pistol I ever bought and my 3rd pistol ever after a P95 and Nagant revolver was a G30 Gen4 that I still miss. All practicality and performance aside, the .45 ACP and .45 Colt are my 2 favorite calibers. But the caliber wars are over for now, until something major changes.

[HeavyDuty]

Thread drift, but the market for polymer frame, CCW .40s and .45s is just gone vs prior decades. .45 releases are now limited to the same category as 10mm for outdoors/hunting handguns. All the .45s and 10mms released in the last 5-10 years I can think of like the P220 10mm hunter version, the FN 510 and 545, and the gen 5 G30/G21 fit this mold. Notice the lack of a Gen 5 G29, G30, or G36.

Releasing new compact .45s just doesn't really make sense. The first carry pistol I ever bought and my 3rd pistol ever after a P95 and Nagant revolver was a G30 Gen4 that I still miss. All practicality and performance aside, the .45 ACP and .45 Colt are my 2 favorite calibers. But the caliber wars are over for now, until something major changes.

Don’t confuse me with logic - I still want compact .45s.

Seriously, though - I have a .45 PX4 that is rather nice. I find the size OK for carry if I choose, but a compact (or even better, Compact Carry) would make me whip out my card thisfast.

[Noah]

Don’t confuse me with logic - I still want compact .45s.

Seriously, though - I have a .45 PX4 that is rather nice. I find the size OK for carry if I choose, but a compact (or even better, Compact Carry) would make me whip out my card thisfast.

I still want a G30 Gen5, even better, one with a slightly longer grip and flush 10 round mag vs the pinky plate.

A PX4CC in .45 would be similar. Good outdoors CCW guns...

[Ben_G]

I wont comment on any specifics of what's in the works at the moment. I will caution though that I'm a millennial, and my feelings on .45 are in line with whoever wrote the script and treatment of that awesome FN 545 video.

[MandoWookie]

Don’t confuse me with logic - I still want compact .45s.

Seriously, though - I have a .45 PX4 that is rather nice. I find the size OK for carry if I choose, but a compact (or even better, Compact Carry) would make me whip out my card thisfast.

I'm still miffed that S&W had and pulled the 2.0 M&P45 Compact, even more so that they labeled the 4in barrel full size grip model the Compact so it's almost impossible to search for a used actual compact because everything just floods with results for that SKU, or the Shield 45.

[MattyD380]

Thread drift, but the market for polymer frame, CCW .40s and .45s is just gone vs prior decades. .45 releases are now limited to the same category as 10mm for outdoors/hunting handguns. All the .45s and 10mms released in the last 5-10 years I can think of like the P220 10mm hunter version, the FN 510 and 545, and the gen 5 G30/G21 fit this mold. Notice the lack of a Gen 5 G29, G30, or G36.

Releasing new compact .45s just doesn't really make sense. The first carry pistol I ever bought and my 3rd pistol ever after a P95 and Nagant revolver was a G30 Gen4 that I still miss. All practicality and performance aside, the .45 ACP and .45 Colt are my 2 favorite calibers. But the caliber wars are over for now, until something major changes.

You're not wrong. I suspect that's why Beretta decided not to introduce the PX4 Compact in .45.

Personally, I don't feel like I need to make 11.5mm holes to feel safe. I just enjoy shooting .45--and I tend to shoot it pretty well. And I think the combo of a handy, mid-size .45 with a rotating barrel seems... nice.

That said, I feel like the PX4 has its own niche market in the US. It seems to attract people who look outside the "lowest-common-denominator" kinda stuff... like compact-ish .45s. Interestingly, my review on the PX4 gets more hits than any of my other videos on YouTube. Granted, I haven't reviewed a Glock 19 or an M&P Shield--but there's definitely interest in the PX4 out there. Enough to justify a compact .45? Maybe. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see a compact .45 PX4 sell better than the full-size .45. On the consumer market, anyway.

I mean, the R&D's already done... apparently :)

106775

[Lester Polfus]

Thread drift, but the market for polymer frame, CCW .40s and .45s is just gone vs prior decades. .45 releases are now limited to the same category as 10mm for outdoors/hunting handguns. All the .45s and 10mms released in the last 5-10 years I can think of like the P220 10mm hunter version, the FN 510 and 545, and the gen 5 G30/G21 fit this mold. Notice the lack of a Gen 5 G29, G30, or G36.

Releasing new compact .45s just doesn't really make sense. The first carry pistol I ever bought and my 3rd pistol ever after a P95 and Nagant revolver was a G30 Gen4 that I still miss. All practicality and performance aside, the .45 ACP and .45 Colt are my 2 favorite calibers. But the caliber wars are over for now, until something major changes.

Well...

I would certainly put you in the category of "not wrong." But any gun I buy from now on in Washington state is limited to 10 rounds. That's becoming a thing all over the country.

For Shield and P365 guns, that's maybe not such a big deal. But when we start talking Glock 19 and bigger-sized guns, I wonder if folks will start thinking about upsizing caliber.

Dunno. We'll see.

[Noah]

Well...

I would certainly put you in the category of "not wrong." But any gun I buy from now on in Washington state is limited to 10 rounds. That's becoming a thing all over the country.

For Shield and P365 guns, that's maybe not such a big deal. But when we start talking Glock 19 and bigger-sized guns, I wonder if folks will start thinking about upsizing caliber.

Dunno. We'll see.

10, 15, 20 years ago, upping caliber if capacity was restricted was as obvious a choice as whether the sky was blue or not. Now, it's less an obvious call, but some people probably still would, even if it's mostly placebo.

[Lester Polfus]

10, 15, 20 years ago, upping caliber if capacity was restricted was as obvious a choice as whether the sky was blue or not. Now, it's less an obvious call, but some people probably still would, even if it's mostly placebo.

Right. I'm not saying it makes sense, I'm saying people might do it anyway.

I think the supremacy of 9mm for the urban/suburban use case is pretty well established, even if you are carrying a 10-round mag in a 15-round gun.

I would argue that .45 ACP still has a place for us rural denizens.

[Noah]

Right. I'm not saying it makes sense, I'm saying people might do it anyway.

I think the supremacy of 9mm for the urban/suburban use case is pretty well established, even if you are carrying a 10-round mag in a 15-round gun.

I would argue that .45 ACP still has a place for us rural denizens.

Oh for sure- I was talking about the thought process of your average suburban gun owner.

[gato naranja]

Well...

I would certainly put you in the category of "not wrong." But any gun I buy from now on in Washington state is limited to 10 rounds. That's becoming a thing all over the country.

For Shield and P365 guns, that's maybe not such a big deal. But when we start talking Glock 19 and bigger-sized guns, I wonder if folks will start thinking about upsizing caliber.

I will not go back to a .45 autoloader, and never was a .40 fan. Already too many hours on the clock and too much structural damage for me to leave the 9x19 as far as bottom-feeders go.

Some days I wish men still dressed circa 1890, as then I could carry something like a 1917 or other big .45 ACP S&W wheelgun (whose recoil I can still tolerate) without looking like I am going to a costume party.

[medmo]

I saw that vid. Great fact filled stuff. The vid and conversation is about an LTT-ized PX4 Compact Carry not a standard issue Beretta pistol. They are completely different pistols. One is a clunky TDA pistol and the other is a HCTAYDTDA, (Holy Crap This Ain't Yo Daddy's Traditional Double Action), pistol. I've been rocking one since 2017 which has been sporting a Holosun 507C soon after the LTT RDO Gen 2 solution was available. Speed and accuracy is all about operating the trigger with minimum sight disturbance. The smooth six and change pounds DA and the crisp three and change pounds SA allows me to shoot this pistol the most fastest and accurate. The LTT trigger work is absolutely amazing. It is comfy for me with all day AIWB due to it's size, weight and rear of slide radius with the spurless hammer. If you haven't tried a fully LTT treated PX4 I highly recommend it. Shit eating grin experience guaranteed.

I agree. It is way underrated.

[revchuck38]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-hRUJDx_VY

[JTQ]

This is a good PX4 video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0y4XbIhdbY

[jetfire]

Wait, we're doing PX4s again? Shit is it 2014 again?

[revchuck38]

Wait, we're doing PX4s again? Shit is it 2014 again?

I wouldn’t be surprised if 90% of PX4s in the US were owned by the folks on P-F. :)

[MattyD380]

I’m, like, really into my PX4 right now. Thanks to this thread.

[medmo]

Wait, we're doing PX4s again? Shit is it 2014 again?

Haha, yes! And, no! Some of us never moved on so it isn’t “again” for everyone.

[JTQ]

I can easily find any sort of holster I want for a 365, and of course for Glock, or a Bersa, or a Taurus, or a Ruger ... but select PX4 from those makers and options go to slim or none. I ended up buying from Beretta direct and am happy, but if one wanted to purchase today and carry tomorrow?
I'll agree with the SIG P365 and Glock holster options being significantly greater than for the PX4, but while I've never shopped for Bersa, Taurus, or Ruger holsters, it would surprise me there would be more options for those than a PX4. However, it may depend on what Bersa/Taurus/Ruger/PX4 models you are talking about.

I have looked at the Beretta website for PX4 holsters and there isn't much I'd pick over other options elsewhere. If you have a particular style of holster you're looking for the PX4, I may be able to offer some suggestions.

Some examples are...

JM Custom Kydex covers the PX4 https://www.jmcustomkydex.com

as does Palmetto Leather Works https://www.palmettoleather.com

[jetfire]

I wouldn’t be surprised if 90% of PX4s in the US were owned by the folks on P-F. :)

One of the greatest moments of my shooting sports career was at a Langdon class where he was running his PX4 and said to me "well, you did this first and it worked pretty well for you."

[JAH 3rd]

Thanks for the link to Palmetto Leather. Was looking at OWB holsters for my PX4 compact. I'm really a fan of double stitching on leather holsters. Going to keep looking at holsters, but I really like this one, the Model 3 OWB holster.

[JTQ]

I'm really a fan of double stitching on leather holsters.
Kramer double stitches and covers the PX4 https://www.kramerleather.com/collections/scabbard-pancake-gun-holsters/products/belt-scabbard

High Noon https://highnoonholsters.com/leather-holsters/belt/extreme-duty/topless

I think the only model Ritchie offers for the PX4 is their Belt Speed Scabbard (per an email with him) https://www.ritchieholsters.com/catalog/p-100010/belt-speed-scabbard

[medmo]

I'll agree with the SIG P365 and Glock holster options being significantly greater than for the PX4, but while I've never shopped for Bersa, Taurus, or Ruger holsters, it would surprise me there would be more options for those than a PX4. However, it may depend on what Bersa/Taurus/Ruger/PX4 models you are talking about.

I have looked at the Beretta website for PX4 holsters and there isn't much I'd pick over other options elsewhere. If you have a particular style of holster you're looking for the PX4, I may be able to offer some suggestions.

Some examples are...

JM Custom Kydex covers the PX4 https://www.jmcustomkydex.com

as does Palmetto Leather Works https://www.palmettoleather.com

Both excellent options. Adding a 3rd. Black Rhino Concealment.

https://blackrhinoconcealment.com/?SID=2ba0185b9d40f09e56ff2b0c7006d105

[Evil_Ed]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-hRUJDx_VY

Dude is %100 right on with a (silenced) accurate bolt action 22lr being about the most fun a human can have at the range with all of his/her clothing on.

It's super easy to lose 2-3 hours at the range with a couple of 8.5x11 pieces of paper with a bunch of quarter, nickel, and dime-sized targets printed on it at 50 yards.

Really the only limiting factor is the volume of ammo, and if the ammo's any good or not. It's not really fun when the cheap bulk crap Federal stuff you hoarded during the various scares wind up shooting bucket-sized groups no matter what you do, but upgrade to the bare minimum of CCI SV or go big with some higher end Eley and things get totally different on the far end of the range...

Edit - apologies for the thread de-rail - just wanted to make sure Earnest got the props he deserves for bringing that gun in to his list ;)

[awp_101]

I wont comment on any specifics of what's in the works at the moment. I will caution though that I'm a millennial, and my feelings on .45 are in line with whoever wrote the script and treatment of that awesome FN 545 video.

I wasn't paying much attention when the 545 came out. Is this the video?


https://youtu.be/d1AyMZHpilA

[No.6]

I'll agree with the SIG P365 and Glock holster options being significantly greater than for the PX4, but while I've never shopped for Bersa, Taurus, or Ruger holsters, it would surprise me there would be more options for those than a PX4. However, it may depend on what Bersa/Taurus/Ruger/PX4 models you are talking about.

I have looked at the Beretta website for PX4 holsters and there isn't much I'd pick over other options elsewhere. If you have a particular style of holster you're looking for the PX4, I may be able to offer some suggestions.

Some examples are...

JM Custom Kydex covers the PX4 https://www.jmcustomkydex.com

as does Palmetto Leather Works https://www.palmettoleather.com

2nd try at reply... I use the Beretta type 5 OWB usually. Bianchi 100 "Professional" I bought for a G19 fits PX4C nicely also. Point I was making is illustrated by Bianchi, though. Search for Beretta / PX4 on their site, you have PX4, PX4DAO, and PX4DASA to choose from, all of which mean the full-sized version, none of which lists this model 100 holster, and "PX4DASA" shows no options at all. Ironically, you can find it if searching for a Cougar 8000 or 8040. If only someone had coordinated with Bianchi on this new variation they introduced just a short while ago in 2010...

... and the effect is that grognards know what they want already, but buyers and LGSs could easily think PX4 is not a viable option and buyers not ask about it, LGSs not carry it, and so browsing buyers may not even know it exists.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?29478-Beretta-PX4-Storm-45-High-round-count-long-duration-usage/page50 posts 492 & 498

[medmo]

Just watched the vid again and realized that James from TFB launches into a shit eating grin after stroking a fully LTT-ized Px4 trigger. Fully validates my previous post. LTT Px4 = Guaranteed shit eating grin experience

[HeavyDuty]

Just watched the vid again and realized that James from TFB launches into a shit eating grin after stroking a fully LTT-ized Px4 trigger. Fully validates my previous post. LTT Px4 = Guaranteed shit eating grin experience

Even my LTT trigger bar equipped CC does it.

[HeavyDuty]

Heads up - Beretta’s $75 PX4 series rebate is back through the end of the year.

[No.6]

2nd try at reply... I use the Beretta type 5 OWB usually. Bianchi 100 "Professional" I bought for a G19 fits PX4C nicely also. Point I was making is illustrated by Bianchi, though. Search for Beretta / PX4 on their site, you have PX4, PX4DAO, and PX4DASA to choose from, all of which mean the full-sized version, none of which lists this model 100 holster, and "PX4DASA" shows no options at all. Ironically, you can find it if searching for a Cougar 8000 or 8040. If only someone had coordinated with Bianchi on this new variation they introduced just a short while ago in 2010...

... and the effect is that grognards know what they want already, but buyers and LGSs could easily think PX4 is not a viable option and buyers not ask about it, LGSs not carry it, and so browsing buyers may not even know it exists.

I love quoting myself :p Anyway another data point: The Galco Classic Lite CL2-224 fits a PX4 Compact perfectly. Regular PX4C mags as well as those I've put the Beretta aluminum +2 endcap on fit the mag holders. Galco doesn't know this of course unless they read this (or if they read my email tomorrow); according to them

CL2-224 also fits the following guns:
AREX DELTA L, DELTA M | GLOCK 17 Gen 1-5, 19 Gen 1-5, 19X, 22 Gen 2-4, 23 Gen 2-4, 26 Gen 3-5, 27 Gen 3-4, 31, 32, 33, 34 Gen 3-5, 35, 36, 45 | PALMETTO STATE ARMORY DAGGER COMPACT | SHADOW SYSTEMS DR920, MR920

The thumbbreak does *not* quite stretch enough to close on the Cougar 8045 but the rest of the big kitty fits nicely. Now I can emulate Detective Fish from Barney Miller :D

[JeffDG]

Someone jump on this! A Compact Carry being sold as a regular PX4…

https://www.guns.com/firearms/handguns/semi-auto/beretta-px4-storm-9-mm-(9x19-para)-semi-auto-15-rounds-3-2-barrel-used?p=923551


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fatdog]

Just throwing this out there because it appears to be a very good price with this sale. I am going to try one of these out of curiosity about the design/platform, but not willing to go full LTT in terms of commitment. I figure on removing the part to make it a G model, dinking with the hammer spring, maybe the sights and applying grip tape.

This is the internet sales division of an LGS in my area. Have done business with them for decades with satisfactory transactions.

https://gunprime.com/products/beretta-px4-storm-9mm-4-barrel-17-round-capacity-jxf9f21

Also in magazine shopping, this seems to be a very good price, under $20 for a factory 17rnd mag. I have also done multiple transactions with this outfit and never disappointed

https://shopbfam.com/product/beretta-usa-jm4px917-px4-storm-9mm-luger-17rd-black-detachable#product_detail

Now to get a JMCK moving this way and the flirtation can begin.......

[revchuck38]

I'd consider sending just the slide to LTT and let them do the safety and the sights. For me, it was worth not dinking with that stuff. I've heard that those sights are a bear to switch out due to being really tight.

[CSW]

So I have read thru this thread 2x. I am intrigued by the compact, and it's price point.
Is leaving it bone stock even applicable, or do some of the changes deem themselves a necessary evil?

<or> would the change to a G conversion be good to go?
I'm slowly weaning away from the 1911 for daily carry, and have been equipt with a 92 compact.


Apples for apples with the 92c vs the Px4?

[Guerrero]

Apples for apples with the 92c vs the Px4?

Not quite. You could probably glean some info from this thread (we also talk about the PX4):

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?57332-Beretta-92-vs-HK-P30

Edit: duh. You were in on that one, too

[CSW]

I'm trying......

[revchuck38]

CSW - You can get most of the improvement on a PX4 relatively cheaply. Reducing the DA trigger can be done by replacing the mainspring with either the D version (the one for the PX4 is different from the one for a 92) or a lighter one from LTT. I'm running the D spring because I ran out of enough small pistol primers for both my 9x19s and my .38 Specials, so I used small rifle primers for the 9x19 loads and the D spring pops those reliably, as well as NATO-spec factory ammo. Converting the F version to a G is supposedly just a matter of disassembling the safety and leaving out a bearing when you reassemble it; I had LTT do it when I had sights installed so I don't know from experience.

[CSW]

CSW - You can get most of the improvement on a PX4 relatively cheaply. Reducing the DA trigger can be done by replacing the mainspring with either the D version (the one for the PX4 is different from the one for a 92) or a lighter one from LTT. I'm running the D spring because I ran out of enough small pistol primers for both my 9x19s and my .38 Specials, so I used small rifle primers for the 9x19 loads and the D spring pops those reliably, as well as NATO-spec factory ammo. Converting the F version to a G is supposedly just a matter of disassembling the safety and leaving out a bearing when you reassemble it; I had LTT do it when I had sights installed so I don't know from experience.

Thank you.
I've dove into the videos on the Px4, and I'm also very familiar with the disassembly of the 92 series.
The only things I'd want to do would be ;
D hammer.
D, or just a touch lighter hammer spring.
Lower profile levers, but I'm rockin a 92 now without issues.
Swap the mag release to the other side.

All the rest could be a project in the making.

[LangdonTactical]

I came to a realization this past weekend. I was at a shoot for one of our dealers, and we had quite a few of our guns on the range for people to shoot. I was surprised at how few of the shooters noticed how nice my personal PX4 full-size shot, or the PX4 Compact for that matter. In my head, I am thinking, "Don't you see how great that is, how fast the dot comes back to the same place, how easy it is to shoot it very quickly and accurately."

Then I had a GM shoot it that was there representing another company. He was amazed at how well it shot. He stopped shooting it after a couple of mags and said, "I am stopping, it is just making me mad, and it is going to get expensive if I keep going."

I realized most of the shooting public, and I do mean most of them, have no idea if a gun shoots really well or not. Most people likely do not see the sights lift when the gun fires, much less really call their shots. Most people don't track their sights in recoil, so they don't really know how quickly it comes back. They jerk the shit out of the trigger, so they cannot tell how precise and consistent it is. That means that they cannot really see or feel how well the PX4 shoots. Or, on that note, how badly some other guns shoot.

This explains to me why Beretta has had such a hard time selling this gun in America. The 92, for example, is a beautiful gun. Like it or hate it, it is a really good-looking gun. Most people look at the PX4, maybe don't like how it looks, and then move on. Regardless of how well it shoots, they cannot even tell, so they shop for guns based on what looks good or what others tell them is good.

I have no answer here, just an observation.

[TheNewbie]

I came to a realization this past weekend. I was at a shoot for one of our dealers, and we had quite a few of our guns on the range for people to shoot. I was surprised at how few of the shooters noticed how nice my personal PX4 full-size shot, or the PX4 Compact for that matter. In my head, I am thinking, "Don't you see how great that is, how fast the dot comes back to the same place, how easy it is to shoot it very quickly and accurately."

Then I had a GM shoot it that was there representing another company. He was amazed at how well it shot. He stopped shooting it after a couple of mags and said, "I am stopping, it is just making me mad, and it is going to get expensive if I keep going."

I realized most of the shooting public, and I do mean most of them, have no idea if a gun shoots really well or not. Most people likely do not see the sights lift when the gun fires, much less really call their shots. Most people don't track their sights in recoil, so they don't really know how quickly it comes back. They jerk the shit out of the trigger, so they cannot tell how precise and consistent it is. That means that they cannot really see or feel how well the PX4 shoots. Or, on that note, how badly some other guns shoot.

This explains to me why Beretta has had such a hard time selling this gun in America. The 92, for example, is a beautiful gun. Like it or hate it, it is a really good-looking gun. Most people look at the PX4, maybe don't like how it looks, and then move on. Regardless of how well it shoots, they cannot even tell, so they shop for guns based on what looks good or what others tell them is good.

I have no answer here, just an observation.


Excellent observations from a brilliant mind in the firearms world.


In my view, this relates to how people only focus on how nice the trigger “feels” or how “easy” it is to shoot. This versus all the other attributes that make a handgun viable for carry and self defense, I.e DA trigger pull, hammer to thumb, decocker and/or safety, etc.



Do you think that the full size offers much advantage over the compact?

[TeflonDon]

https://i.imgur.com/gDT5FGO.jpg
I have a PX4 Compact Enox. It's one of those underrated pistols that only real gun nuts and aficionados recognize them for what they are. A Beretta Px4, Walther P99, and HK USP should be a staple in every collection IMHO.

[medmo]

Regardless of how well it shoots, they cannot even tell, so they shop for guns based on what looks good or what others tell them is good.


You answered the question that I've been asking for over six years. Light bulb just lit. The overwhelming majority of people buying and shooting pistols have zero cognizance of performance and might not even care about it. It would be interesting to know what percentage of the market actually use a timer, run drills and quantify performance. I bet it is super slim. Another thought just popped. What percentage of the market have skills/abilities and the ability to appreciate a performance pistol? I bet that is even thinner. My guess is that the majority of the market would shoot similar sized groups at 7 yards using either a SCCY CPX or a performance pistol. They just don't know any better. What about all of the "experts" on YT uploading "expert pistol review" vids demonstrating a range session of a slow fired half mag of mediocre grouping at seven yards then ten minutes of what they most subjectively love or hate about a particular pistol with their "expert pistol reviewer" opinion. That doesn't help anything.

[Ben_G]

I realized most of the shooting public, and I do mean most of them, have no idea if a gun shoots really well or not. Most people likely do not see the sights lift when the gun fires, much less really call their shots. Most people don't track their sights in recoil, so they don't really know how quickly it comes back. They jerk the shit out of the trigger, so they cannot tell how precise and consistent it is. That means that they cannot really see or feel how well the PX4 shoots. Or, on that note, how badly some other guns shoot.

That's always one of the hard parts about developing guns here. Balancing all the features and requirements for the 0.1% power users we talk to and see as the market we want to satisfy, while still appealing and communicating properly to the other 99.9% in a way that doesn't lose their interest. On the pistol said aka the market in the US? Well the 92 made it over the hump because of the M9 and pop culture in that era.

I'd love it if we could crack a wider market with the PX4 for its 20th, but it'll take something special.

[EVP]

That's always one of the hard parts about developing guns here. Balancing all the features and requirements for the 0.1% power users we talk to and see as the market we want to satisfy, while still appealing and communicating properly to the other 99.9% in a way that doesn't lose their interest. On the pistol said aka the market in the US? Well the 92 made it over the hump because of the M9 and pop culture in that era.

I'd love it if we could crack a wider market with the PX4 for its 20th, but it'll take something special.


I like Beretta as a company and their firearms but to be honest they suck at marketing the px4. They suck at the marketing the 92 even. Good thing Hollywood took care of that. Which is stupid if you ask me. I don’t care what guns are used in movies or what not.

Nobody is talking about the guns pros, nobody from Beretta is talking about the reliability and some of the engineering that went into it.

When Ernest did that video with TFB, that was the first time I heard some of the engineering and other cool stuff about the px4. Best thing Beretta has is a guy like Ernest who can explain and articulate some of the positives.



Beretta needs to forget about the apparel(or lifestyle) side of things and bring stuff that American shooters want. It’s a shame because I think Beretta has the engineering and quality to do whatever they want and back it up.
Just my 2 cents.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

IMO a huge hurdle to the PX4 is simply the stock configuration just turns people off. I personally picked one up at a gun show once, hated it, and stopped considering it. Years later with a lot more shooting experience and reading about them here on PF, I bought one. I liked shooting it but not enough to actually compete or carry with it, so it sat for 2+ years. Recently I got the LTT RDO cut and, along with carry levers, grip tape, and a lighter hammer spring, totally transformed the pistol and now its in the running for favorite to shoot, and I have a bunch of nice expensive handguns.

I guarentee you that even moderately experienced pistol shooters pick up a PX4 and are immediately turned off by its giant pointy slide levers, confusing decocker/safety, smooth yet thicc grip, heavy DA pull, and overall ugliness.

The Compact Carry solves most of these issues but it is not the model most buyers will handle in a store.

Beretta could easily have them come G from the factory, with a lighter hammer spring, and carry levers, and it would massively increase the appeal, without any increase in production costs.

If Beretta really wants the PX4 to compete and reach its potential they should make an updated model with a slim grip (perhaps using 92 magizines, no one cares about .40 or .45), updated grip texture like the APX A1, and factory optics cut, perhaps licensing the LTT design.

[fatdog]

to be honest they suck at marketing the px4. .

100%, because they only care about selling shotguns to sporting clays snobs and bird hunter fud's

[gato naranja]

I have already - redundantly - given my $0.02 about what the PX4 needs at this point in time, and aside from comparatively expensive injection molding dies for an updated grip frame having revised contours, better texture and multiple weaponlight slots, nearly everything else is basically either a couple extra machining steps or a small part (some of which already exist in the Beretta universe). There is absolutely nothing wrong with the basics of these pistols, with the exception of a sub-optimal locking block in the SubCompact.* Mechanically, still the most underrated line of pistols out there, but badly in need of an "X" or "Gen 2" update.

The PX4 is a more modern and more rugged* handgun than any 92, and is, IMHO, a much better pistol for a new or casual shooter insofar as ease of maintenance. It is hard for me to describe, but they are not as "fiddly" as the 92. Standard items like factory RDO cuts, iron sights similar to the 92X, "D" hammer spring, "G" Carry levers and the aforementioned revised grip frame would probably return me to the PX4 fold because there would be nothing more needed for a cat like myself. Everything you need, nothing you don't; those who want or need extended mag catches, different levers, FS or D conversions, threaded barrels, etc could easily scratch their itches with what are essentially drop-in parts.

(REAL drop-ins, not "1911 drop-ins.")

*Yes, I am bitter about the apparent low round count limitations of the PX4 SubCompact; I still own a few and am now loathe to practice with them as I ought.

[TeflonDon]

100%, because they only care about selling shotguns to sporting clays snobs and bird hunter fud's

Nope, they only care about shotguns and the 92 series. They don't care about the APX or PX4. They haven't really updated the PX4 since it was introduced over a decade ago. Beretta and Kahr have the worst sales and marketing team in the business. Even Taurus is out selling them both combined.

[oss117]

*Yes, I am bitter about the apparent low round count limitations of the PX4 SubCompact; I still own a few and am now loathe to practice with them as I ought.

The word over on the Beretta forum is that the SubCompact is no longer in production.
:-(

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

*Yes, I am bitter about the apparent low round count limitations of the PX4 SubCompact; I still own a few and am now loathe to practice with them as I ought.

As oss117 mentioned, Beretta will no longer be making the SubCompact, but will support it for about 10 more years.

How many rounds do you have on your SubCompact or SubCompacts that you are concerned with breakage?

[gato naranja]

As oss117 mentioned, Beretta will no longer be making the SubCompact, but will support it for about 10 more years.

How many rounds do you have on your SubCompact or SubCompacts that you are concerned with breakage?

Hard to say with the oldest one, but the rest are low round-count pistols. Given my age, health, and current concealed carry preferences, they will all outlive me... or at least I think they will. I still love 'em, but it sucked to find out that they weren't particularly durable compared to their rotating-barrel brethren.

Regardless of how much I personally like the SC's, I realize that Beretta would be doing strictly philanthropic work in spending any money upgrading them.

[TheNewbie]

That's always one of the hard parts about developing guns here. Balancing all the features and requirements for the 0.1% power users we talk to and see as the market we want to satisfy, while still appealing and communicating properly to the other 99.9% in a way that doesn't lose their interest. On the pistol said aka the market in the US? Well the 92 made it over the hump because of the M9 and pop culture in that era.

I'd love it if we could crack a wider market with the PX4 for its 20th, but it'll take something special.


Thank you for your participation here.


I wish there could be a breakthrough to the masses that DAO and TDA guns offer a lot of advantages, while sacrificing little in the way of shootability. Then maybe companies would pour their resources into creating even better TDA and DAO type triggers.

[No.6]

You answered the question that I've been asking for over six years. Light bulb just lit. The overwhelming majority of people buying and shooting pistols have zero cognizance of performance and might not even care about it. It would be interesting to know what percentage of the market actually use a timer, run drills and quantify performance. I bet it is super slim. Another thought just popped. What percentage of the market have skills/abilities and the ability to appreciate a performance pistol? I bet that is even thinner. My guess is that the majority of the market would shoot similar sized groups at 7 yards using either a SCCY CPX or a performance pistol. They just don't know any better. What about all of the "experts" on YT uploading "expert pistol review" vids demonstrating a range session of a slow fired half mag of mediocre grouping at seven yards then ten minutes of what they most subjectively love or hate about a particular pistol with their "expert pistol reviewer" opinion. That doesn't help anything.

I'm none of the things that you're calling out as a performance user, nor military experience or LEO, nor family of hunters or enthusiasts. (I don't own a timer, don't have spare time to make good use of it, nor participate in competitive shooting against a timer. Did once, ranked right in the middle. Donations of spare time welcome). My round count overall and in any given period would draw contempt on any firearm forum :) Nonetheless I craved a PX4, when resources permitted I jumped on a chance to get the LTT PX4CC, and appreciate it every time I do anything with it, from longer (25y+) to middling (10y) range shooting to dry (laser bullet thing) fire and even cleaning.

Maybe it's because long ago I was introduced to the 8045 Cougar and had that comparison vs. the usual action. Maybe it's because much earlier than that I did fencing and now do kobudo and don't 'jerk' or spaz out my handling of any weapon. Or maybe it's because I'm *not* a "gun guy" and so viewed the design without a bunch of preconceptions from self and others.

Too bad one can't set up a double-blind test. "We've replaced the Glock in this fine establishment with a Beretta PX4. Let's see if customers notice." (throwback to ancient Folger's commercial)

>When Ernest did that video with TFB, that was the first time I heard some of the engineering and other cool stuff about the px4.

Absolutely. IMO that's all of motorsport in a nutshell -- come see our crazy alien drivers and tech so you'll go into our showroom and buy the image, the performance, and the name (and the sponsors' stuff too).
Side note: YouTube is a game where people get paid to get views so Google gets paid to run ads. To that end whatever gets views will appear there. Completely unrelated to value of content.

[gato naranja]

I'd love it if we could crack a wider market with the PX4 for its 20th, but it'll take something special.

Something like a change to a modular chassis, or converting the current full size to use the compact's locking block/carrier but with a lengthened compact barrel and slide (thus making a "Centurion" PX4 a no-brainer) might do it, but who knows? I figured a "92X-esque" maturing of the platform would suffice, but maybe stronger medicine is needed.

[medmo]

Talking about YT.... A YT re-release of an updated video specific to today's platform with all of the current options and upgrades wouldn't hurt anything. Include the ACTUAL frame/slide width not the width including the giant bat wing safety/de-cock levers. That width with the giant bat wing safety/de-cock levers is misleading. Also, Kevin at Muddy River Tactical posted a YT "most underrated pistol" video maybe a month before James at TFB. Maybe now would be a good time for that re-release Beretta factory video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z48ziF76hwY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAq_oMghTKM

And an improved factory frame texture.... Talon's are awesome but I wear them out and need to replace them occasionally.

[JTQ]

... or converting the current full size to use the compact's locking block/carrier but with a lengthened compact barrel and slide (thus making a "Centurion" PX4 a no-brainer)...
The full size PX4 is already a "Centurion" size. It has a full size grip with a 4" barrel.

[JTQ]

The full size PX4 is already a "Centurion" size. It has a full size grip with a 4" barrel.

I could see an argument for a full size PX4 with a 4.5" or 5" barrel, though.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Something like a change to a modular chassis, or converting the current full size to use the compact's locking block/carrier but with a lengthened compact barrel and slide (thus making a "Centurion" PX4 a no-brainer) might do it, but who knows? I figured a "92X-esque" maturing of the platform would suffice, but maybe stronger medicine is needed.

That would be pretty great if done right. I would love the ability to put a full size slide on a compact frame. The SC has always seemed pointless to me but if I could put the compact slide on that short grip it would find a place.

Not sure of the engineering challenges to do this, but with a chassis they could have a super thin grip frame that takes 92 mags, and a thicker frame for those that want to run .40 or .45 with px4 mags, or who just want more grip surface for performance. With how the trigger group is already encapsulated and lifts out of the frame on the PX4, it seems to me turning that into a chassis wouldnt take a ton of R&D, but then I'm no engineer.

A chassis also solves the grip slickness complaints, as I dont need to start sweating at the thought of taking a soldering iron to my grip if I can replace it for $50 .

[TheNewbie]

Would it really make sense to make an improved version take 92 mags? Unless it could some how accept both, it seems most PX4 users would prefer to be able to have one set of mags. No judgment about the idea from me, it's a serious question.


Yes, originally it would have been nice to make it accept 92 mags.

[Evil_Ed]

The whole point of the PX4 was it was designed from the ground up to accommodate 40S&W, during the ban, and as an LE round...hence why it's thicker than a 92 in a lot of areas and why the mags are wider. Making it take 92 mags would be a bit of a step backwards, though now that 40 is essentially dead, maybe not entirely the worst idea...

[JTQ]

Would it really make sense to make an improved version take 92 mags?


Making it take 92 mags would be a bit of a step backwards,...
I would not see the PX4 using 92 mags as a good move. I am aware there is a legion of pistol shooters who cannot understand why the PX4 never used 92 mags, but they are different guns and it seems logical they would use different mags.

Folks don't seem to squawk quite so loudly that the SIG P320 doesn't use P226 mags, or that the HK P30 doesn't use USP mags, or the S&W M&P doesn't use 659 or SIGMA mags, or the Ruger, whatever, doesn't use their predecessor mags, or whatever FN is calling their current gun FNP/FNS/FNX/etc., doesn't use P35 mags.

Time marches on, the 92 mags are from the 1970's. The PX4 has a more modern, probably better, mag. Don't change it.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I would not see the PX4 using 92 mags as a good move. I am aware there is a legion of pistol shooters who cannot understand why the PX4 never used 92 mags, but they are different guns and it seems logical they would use different mags....

Time marches on, the 92 mags are from the 1970's. The PX4 has a more modern, probably better, mag. Don't change it.

You point out some excellent logic!

The PX4 Storm mags are different in the same way that the springs of the PX4 are different than the model 92. The springs are shorter, tighter and better engineered. This is why the PX4 Storm magazines are able to hold more rounds and push those rounds up stronger.

While some might want the convenience of "one mag fits all", PX4 Storm magazines are superior.

[Hot Sauce]

We keep talking about all the stuff we’d want changed, but LTT had to basically bring this thing back from a memory hole (for which I am grateful). Beretta is completely aloof.

Even then, the base model LTT changes are almost exclusively in the form of parts Beretta already have on hand and would have made standard if Beretta had actually been interested in pushing hard with the PX4 in the American private handgun. And it still
comes slick as bar of soap from the factory.

All that awesome engineering gets squandered with their go to market strategy (whatever the fuck that is).

[medmo]

I could see an argument for a full size PX4 with a 4.5" or 5" barrel, though.

In 10mm.

Fully LTT-ized including RDO solution.

That’d be the shit.

:)

[TicTacticalTimmy]

You point out some excellent logic!

The PX4 Storm mags are different in the same way that the springs of the PX4 are different than the model 92. The springs are shorter, tighter and better engineered. This is why the PX4 Storm magazines are able to hold more rounds and push those rounds up stronger.

While some might want the convenience of "one mag fits all", PX4 Storm magazines are superior.

Can you explain that to me? The full size PX4 mag holds 17, while the full size 92 holds 18.

My reasoning wasn't so much about one mag being better than the other. Its that the px4 mags are unecessarily wide for a 9mm, and mean the grip of the gun has to be wider.

IME the wide grip of the px4 significantly impacts its comfort and concealability, to the point a full size 92 is about equally comfortable and concealable for me. I do not own the compact.

I feel you could make a plastic grip around a 92 magazine with similar grip width to a G48. That would interest a lot of folk as there is no TDA gun on the market that slim. Particularly if it were a chassis system wherein you could easily swap in a thicker grip for better performance.

[JTQ]

I feel you could make a plastic grip around a 92 magazine with similar grip width to a G48. That would interest a lot of folk as there is no TDA gun on the market that slim. Particularly if it were a chassis system wherein you could easily swap in a thicker grip for better performance.
Isn't the PX4 slide already thicker than the grip?

I understand the trigger reach issues for those with smaller hands (you can see my personal numbers in RJ's hand size threads), but the slide, with the rotating barrel is going to be the limiting factor for thickness, and the grip doesn't seem to be that big of a concealment issue, for me at least, as far as thickness goes.

[Guerrero]

Can you explain that to me? The full size PX4 mag holds 17, while the full size 92 holds 18.

My reasoning wasn't so much about one mag being better than the other. Its that the px4 mags are unecessarily wide for a 9mm, and mean the grip of the gun has to be wider.

IME the wide grip of the px4 significantly impacts its comfort and concealability, to the point a full size 92 is about equally comfortable and concealable for me. I do not own the compact.

I feel you could make a plastic grip around a 92 magazine with similar grip width to a G48. That would interest a lot of folk as there is no TDA gun on the market that slim. Particularly if it were a chassis system wherein you could easily swap in a thicker grip for better performance.

"Unnecessarily" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that statement.

As far as why the PX4 is the way it is...


https://youtu.be/aqKQwF9b7RA

(for, like, the third time in this thread)

[TicTacticalTimmy]

"Unnecessarily" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that statement.

As far as why the PX4 is the way it is...


https://youtu.be/aqKQwF9b7RA

(for, like, the third time in this thread)

Did we watch the same video?

There was nothing in there about any advantages to the PX4 magazine except that it is engineered atound .40SW, which in 2023 is no longer an advantage.

Everyones concealment needs are different, but I know for me, carrying AIWB, the width seems to be the single biggest factor, perhaps tied with the shape of the heel.

I would not want a thinner slide, the PX4 slide is already a nice width for mounting dots.

[Skywalker]

And an improved factory frame texture.... Talon's are awesome but I wear them out and need to replace them occasionally.

More texture would be great.

I don't even like Talons... Tried them out on an HK45C, another compact DA/SA with a relatively thick, slick grip, and went back to hockey tape after one session. The Talons (just the classic texture) were worse than bare with slightly sweaty hands for me.

I'm interested-ish in a PX4 but every time I look at the grip I quickly convince myself to stick with the P30.

[That Guy]

So I have read thru this thread 2x. I am intrigued by the compact, and it's price point.
Is leaving it bone stock even applicable, or do some of the changes deem themselves a necessary evil?

<or> would the change to a G conversion be good to go?
I'm slowly weaning away from the 1911 for daily carry, and have been equipt with a 92 compact.


Personal preferences and opinions, plus some observations from watching my girlfriend shoot her PX4:

I find the safety lever awkward for at least smaller sized hands, so I would strongly recommend converting the gun to decock only. (Personally, I swapped out the decocking levers to the 92 style ones, but that probably ended all life on Earth since those are even wider than the stock levers, and as we all know even the stock ones are just unacceptable.) What you'll need to do to get there: you have to remove the right side safety lever from the gun, push the ball bearing that makes the lever "stick" in its downward position and its spring out of the lever using a really small punch (I don't have one of those, so I used a hex key wrench), and then reassemble the lever onto the gun. I find the reassembly a bit fiddly, but nothing a 1911 shooter can't do.

Both me and my girlfriend have shot our guns with the stock trigger pull. The trigger is just fine. The DA pull is a bit heavy but perfectly manageable, and the trigger pull is smooth. That said, the trigger pull with the D spring installed is nice. :) So especially considering how trivial it is to change the hammer spring, and how inexpensive, it becomes something you might as well just do, and then enjoy the lovely trigger pull. Here's what you'll need to do: First remove the backstrap from the gun. Push out the hammer cap retaining pin and remove the cap. Take a pair of needlenose pliers and yank the old spring out. Then reassemble the gun using the new spring. Time required: a minute or two.

Most people complain about the slipperiness of the grip, so you might want to apply some sort of tape to it. (And if you're smart, you'll first change out the hammer spring and apply tape afterwards, unlike how I did it. ;) Although a moment with a thin, sharp blade and now my Talon Gripped handle's backstrap is removable without peeling off the applied tape.) I would like to note that my girlfriend keeps shooting hers stock, without anything applied to the grip, so obviously that can be done. But tape is inexpensive and easily applied, so if the stock checkering isn't working for you, that is pretty easily remedied.

So I would say that the gun is just fine as is, but some of the suggested modifications are so trivial to do and make the gun that much nicer that you might as well just do them.

(The stock sights are also perfectly usable as is. Should you wish to replace them, some people warn that the stock sights are really tightly mounted. This is quite true. However, that doesn't make changing the sights as difficult or down right impossible as some people make it sound like. You'll need a vice to keep your slide in place, possibly a piece of cardboard as padding if you wish to avoid scratching your slide, a punch, a hammer, and a little bit of effort. First make sure you're driving the sight the right way, and then just whack it out of there. If I can do it, anyone can. Just takes a bit of force to get the stock sight moving.)

[HeavyDuty]

I’ve been horribly lazy, I’ve been meaning to create a pattern so I can cut Talon material just for the grip sides. I’m ok with the front and rear texture.

[medmo]

More texture would be great.

I don't even like Talons... Tried them out on an HK45C, another compact DA/SA with a relatively thick, slick grip, and went back to hockey tape after one session. The Talons (just the classic texture) were worse than bare with slightly sweaty hands for me.

I'm interested-ish in a PX4 but every time I look at the grip I quickly convince myself to stick with the P30.

The newer Pro grip texture works excellent for me. Much better than the rubberized version. Good texture even with sweaty hands. Might be worth a try.

[Kanye Wyoming]

The newer Pro grip texture works excellent for me. Much better than the rubberized version. Good texture even with sweaty hands. Might be worth a try.
Ditto. The Pro texture is excellent.

[awp_101]

I realized most of the shooting public, and I do mean most of them, have no idea if a gun shoots really well or not. Most people likely do not see the sights lift when the gun fires, much less really call their shots. Most people don't track their sights in recoil, so they don't really know how quickly it comes back. They jerk the shit out of the trigger, so they cannot tell how precise and consistent it is. That means that they cannot really see or feel how well the PX4 shoots. Or, on that note, how badly some other guns shoot.
Guilty as charged! I've been down the PX4 road twice and while I enjoyed them*, I didn't appreciate them. I've pretty much settled on the 92 and P-07 as my TDA choices but I'm not opposed to picking up another PX4 down the road.

Those are also some really good observations that could go in the "'shooting well vs being a good shooter" thread IMO.

*I didn't really enjoy the PX4 .45 I had but that was more of a grip strength issue leading to excessive muzzle flip that I don't have with 1911s or 9mm in general.

[Greg Bell]

I have had several PX4s through the years. I had an early full size one that was not reliable. This was very early on. That scared me off for years but I picked up a .45 "special duty" for super cheap and it was cool and a hoot to shoot. Recently I picked ups couple of PX4 LTTs (one factory w the paint job but std sights, and one LTT with the night sight and the laser engraving, etc). Both are fantastic shooters. Unfortunately one of them came with something seriously wonky with the decockers. Originally the lever would get completely stuck in the downward position so much so that at first I thought I had been shipped a saftey model. Finally I took mine apart and replaced the roll pin and it "mostly" reset but was still wonky enough to send back. I sent it back to the mothership and they sent it back (I won't get into the details, but it was pretty exhausting). As far as I can tell it was a combination of a too long pin and overthick ceracoat. The other one worked perfectly out of the box. I do wonder if the use of roll pins in Beretta saftey/decocking levers is a poor choice. I have had them back out of my G-conversion LTT 92. But the good news on that model is that it doesn't back into something that will lock up the lever. The solution is just wack it back in place. Still, they need to stake these things or something (although that would be tricky with the PX4).

They are a joy to shoot though. And I have had zero malfunctions through either gun outside of the wonky lever.

[HeavyDuty]

I’ve noticed mine are very sensitive to decocker roll pin placement. The roll pin could stand to be forty thou shorter.

[revchuck38]

Here. (https://www.cdnnsports.com/magazines/px4-9mm-20rd-carded.html) They also have 17-round .40 S&W mags for the same price.

[Sidesaddle Cavalry]

At risk of pulling up the 2nd Px4 thread back up to the top of the Semi-Auto Pistols forum: What's the best way to get hands on a Px4 SD recoil spring assembly, the one with the two coaxial springs? Beretta USA doesn't offer them as a part anymore, and it looks like Midwest Gun Works is clean out (and I don't know how they restock).

[Exiledviking]

Well, with BUSA's $75 rebate going on I couldn't help myself and picked up a full-size PX4 9mm G for $499.00.

I've putting together a shopping cart at LTT with hammer springs, LTT trigger bar, carry levers, and Talon grips. Much to my surprise the AmeriGlo sights are no longer available for the full-size PX4 9mm. Anyone have a recommendation for replacement sights preferably a night sight or hi-viz front sight.
While I really like the Trijicon HD front sight, I can't stand the U rear sight notch.

[Lunker]

Take a look at the Beretta adjustables. They are on the Beretta website. Blacked out rear with serrations and fiber optic front.
They are top quality LPA manufactured sights.
One thing I always hated about Beretta 92/PX4 sights was how narrow the rear blade is (not the notch, but the actual sight blade). 20+ years of shooting Glocks (and similar) has me accustomed to a nice wide rear sight blade. This Beretta adjustable rear sight is nice and wide, the way I like it. [emoji3]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Noah]

109889

I was very happy with the LPA black adjustable rear/ fiber front on my PX4 full I had 6/22-5/23. I got them straight from Beretta with a coupon.

[JAH 3rd]

109889

I was very happy with the LPA black adjustable rear/ fiber front on my PX4 full I had 6/22-5/23. I got them straight from Beretta with a coupon.

Noah, where did you send your pistol to get this frame texturing done. I'm always on the lookout for vendors that do this kind of work. I like what I'm seeing here.

[Noah]

Noah, where did you send your pistol to get this frame texturing done. I'm always on the lookout for vendors that do this kind of work. I like what I'm seeing here.

I have a friend who does the work. He does incredible work, but unfortunately his FFL connection passed away this year so he's only doing grip modules etc. https://www.instagram.com/b.and.d.customs/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y%3D

[JAH 3rd]

Thanks for the info Noah. Sorry for your friends loss.

[Ben_G]

Noah, where did you send your pistol to get this frame texturing done. I'm always on the lookout for vendors that do this kind of work. I like what I'm seeing here.

Boresight might be able to square you away. I know they've worked on PX4s before.

[No.6]

Boresight might be able to square you away. I know they've worked on PX4s before.

There seems to be a bit of excitement over at Berettaforum about new offerings. Anything you'd like to categorically deny?

https://berettaforum.net/vb/showthread.php?t=154926

[fatdog]

Anybody ever seen a grip reduction done for the full size PX4 full size to shorten it to take the compact magazines? Since they use the same mainspring/fcg components I assume it is theoretically possible but I have never seen one. I am very turned off by the 3.27" compact barrel combined with Beretta's reputation for "slower than average" barrels. The harder part for me to conceal is the butt, not the barrel/slide.

[Noah]

Anybody ever seen a grip reduction done for the full size PX4 full size to shorten it to take the compact magazines? Since they use the same mainspring/fcg components I assume it is theoretically possible but I have never seen one. I am very turned off by the 3.27" compact barrel combined with Beretta's reputation for "slower than average" barrels. The harder part for me to conceal is the butt, not the barrel/slide.

I too would have like a compact frame with the full barrel, but with the way the bsckstrap and backstrap retaining clip works, I doubt it.

[WobblyPossum]

I don’t see why it wouldn’t be possible. You’d just lose the interchangeable back straps and would be stuck with whichever one was cut down with the frame and permanently attached.

[Ben_G]

There seems to be a bit of excitement over at Berettaforum about new offerings. Anything you'd like to categorically deny?

https://berettaforum.net/vb/showthread.php?t=154926

I have no knowledge of any polymer frame program on the 92 that's being called a 94. And if that were a thing, I would know about it. Generally, I'm pretty sure we've decided that a polymer frame 92 won't work on a lot of levels (technical feasibility, cost to consumer, brand impact, etc). Generally if you like a 90 series trigger with a smooth action type on a polymer frame for a bit less weight and more abuse it can handle, well that's why we made the PX4 20 years ago. So that rumor a hard deny from me.

On the PX4 front... I want to set expectations correctly and make clear that any and all near-term PX4 stuff would have to be incremental work on the current platform as we've somewhat recently gotten international LE contracts that require 10 years of service commitments for parts. So on one hand any PX4 owners or purchasers have nothing to be concerned about for parts availability or the gun being discontinued, but nobody go expecting something like a new frame next year. I know we all want updated ergos and texture, but that's a very high resource requirement bar to clear when stacked up against the other stuff we're working on.

All that said, 2024 will mark 20 years of PX4, and I can confirm that Ernest and I have traded notes on PX4 configurations we'd like to see for the better part of 6 years now. And while I couldn't do much about any of that as the designer for US R&D, I did get moved to Product Manager over Collaborations and Special Programs a little while back.

[fatdog]

.. we've somewhat recently gotten international LE contracts that require 10 years of service commitments for parts. So on one hand any PX4 owners or purchasers have nothing to be concerned about for parts availability or the gun being discontinued, ...

Thanks for sharing that. It makes me a lot more comfortable about investing in the platform as a non-LE consumer. I plan to, based on my very recent experience as a first time owner of a PX4.

[Polecat]

I would love a thinner PX4,not a micro, but maybe something in between, enough grip, but thinner and lighter.

[gato naranja]

I have no knowledge of any polymer frame program on the 92 that's being called a 94. And if that were a thing, I would know about it. Generally, I'm pretty sure we've decided that a polymer frame 92 won't work on a lot of levels (technical feasibility, cost to consumer, brand impact, etc). Generally if you like a 90 series trigger with a smooth action type on a polymer frame for a bit less weight and more abuse it can handle, well that's why we made the PX4 20 years ago. So that rumor a hard deny from me.

A lot of people lose sight of that little tidbit. As I have said often enough in the past year or so, if Beretta would tweak the Px4 line like they did the 92X RDO line, I'd return to the PX4 like a shot (so to speak). I may be dead or in some glorified cattle pen for geriatrics by the time it actually happens, but it'll still benefit someone.

In the meantime, I shall continue to endeavor to persevere with the 92X. It's a burden, yes, but one I can live with.

[gato naranja]

While it has been a relationship with ups and downs, the PX4 that ended my disdain for Berettas remains in the rotation. Not the most durable of pistols as it turns out, but of a compactness which the 92 is unable to duplicate.

[No.6]

A lot of people lose sight of that little tidbit. As I have said often enough in the past year or so, if Beretta would tweak the Px4 line like they did the 92X RDO line, I'd return to the PX4 like a shot (so to speak). I may be dead or in some glorified cattle pen for geriatrics by the time it actually happens, but it'll still benefit someone.

In the meantime, I shall continue to endeavor to persevere with the 92X. It's a burden, yes, but one I can live with.

I jumped in for the rotating barrel, so while I have a latent love for the SC, I passed over two chances to buy one at reasonable price, too. As for parts, that was never my worry --- two clicks and I can get any replacement part I'll need for the 1999 Cat Pak 8045 (except sights! but I have the default 3 dots anyway)

[Polecat]

So maybe work on improving the APX carry! Give it some capacity, really improve the trigger, and offer it in small, med, large like Sig P365 series.

[JMag]

https://youtu.be/mOrd0qow61o?feature=shared

[JTQ]

The side grip panel texture comments in the video - they are smooth, but the front and back straps have texture and the smooth sides are comfortable for carry, and the recoil characteristics of the gun make control easy - makes sense.

Grip panel texture has been a complaint about the gun since it was introduced, and I'm sure Beretta will address it when the gun is updated, but I wonder if they end up putting something like the Glock RTF2 on the gun, and then you end up with folks complaining about too much texture and that it's ruining their love handles and shirts. It probably won't happen, as the APX has pretty good texture and would probably be the road map for an updated PX4, but it is one of those things that you probably won't be able to please everybody.

[fatdog]

I agree grip texture is one of those things where it is hard to please everyone. I found the bare PX4 too slick and squirmy for my tastes, but the Talon Pro texture stuff fixed it, just right for me. I am going to pass on stippling it for now.

[TheNewbie]

I am having a difficult time finding full size PX4s. Are they not a highly produced item?

[Ben_G]

I am having a difficult time finding full size PX4s. Are they not a highly produced item?

The factory in Italy uses a lot of modular 5 axis cells, so the PX4 shares machines with APX and some other stuff depending on the machine. I think the way the forecasting shook out on PX4 this year, other stuff had higher priority and we just didn't end up bringing a huge number of them in this go around. These numbers shift around every year.

/ you might have more luck on the full size front if you go for a CA SKU (this was a the majority of this year's inventory since they are on the roster) and then just get real mags when we do a sale near the holidays. We'll be bringing in more next year too though with normal cap mags.

[JTQ]

I am having a difficult time finding full size PX4s. Are they not a highly produced item?

Langdon has them https://langdontactical.com/px4-carry-full-size-9mm/

[fatdog]

As far as magazines go, you will never find a better deal than this one, $20 each.

I have just over a half dozen orders with this outfit, they are slow to ship, sometimes two weeks, but every order has been perfect and these are real OEM factory magazines in the retail packaging. I think they drop ship from somebody else's inventory but at this price I don't care at all where they ship from or if it takes 3 weeks.

Full size PX4 mags (https://shopbfam.com/product/beretta-usa-jm4px917-px4-storm-9mm-luger-17rd-black-detachable#product_detail)

I bought my PX4 on line from this outfit. (https://gunprime.com/products/beretta-px4-storm-9mm-4-barrel-17-round-capacity-jxf9f21)

They have those with the CA 10 round mags on sale for just under $500 (https://gunprime.com/products/beretta-px4-storm-9mm-full-size-10-round-capacity-ca-compliant-jxf9g20ca)

[Guerrero]

As far as magazines go, you will never find a better deal than this one, $20 each.

I have just over a half dozen orders with this outfit, they are slow to ship, sometimes two weeks, but every order has been perfect and these are real OEM factory magazines in the retail packaging. I think they drop ship from somebody else's inventory but at this price I don't care at all where they ship from or if it takes 3 weeks.

Full size PX4 mags (https://shopbfam.com/product/beretta-usa-jm4px917-px4-storm-9mm-luger-17rd-black-detachable#product_detail)

I bought my PX4 on line from this outfit. (https://gunprime.com/products/beretta-px4-storm-9mm-4-barrel-17-round-capacity-jxf9f21)

They have those with the CA 10 round mags on sale for just under $500 (https://gunprime.com/products/beretta-px4-storm-9mm-full-size-10-round-capacity-ca-compliant-jxf9g20ca)

That's a great price on PX4 mags. Beretta runs a sale about twice a year where you can get a good price if you buy 4 or 5 at a time.

[Exiledviking]

EuroOptic.com has PX4 pistols in stock.

[Leimy]

https://youtu.be/9Q4M_a7S8-o

Oddly, I have a collection of air C02 pistols and I have the Baretta PX4 Storm model. Then I started looking at getting yet another gun. After looking at the 9mm PX4 I started looking around to buy one. looked high and low and couldn't find one anyplace. I did have a broker who was able to find me one but would take 3-6 months to get it. I look around and stumbled upon a used one. Serial number says it is 2 years old. Looking at it, the original owner musta bought it, fired it and then put it away. Look like less than 50 round down the barrel.
Ill play with it a bit and then some LTT upgrades and to make it a G model.

Fits nicely with my other Baretta...not the C02 model.

[Stony Lane]

https://thecastlearms.com/product/beretta-usa-jxf9f21-px4-storm-full-size-9mm-luger-4-171-black-black-interchangeable-backstrap-grip-1#product_detail

[fatdog]

https://thecastlearms.com/product/beretta-usa-jxf9f21-px4-storm-full-size-9mm-luger-4-171-black-black-interchangeable-backstrap-grip-1#product_detail

DAO, yuk!

[revchuck38]

DAO, yuk!

I've got one that I sent to LTT for trigger work. No yuk in that one. :)

[Sidesaddle Cavalry]

I've got one that I sent to LTT for trigger work. No yuk in that one. :)

You have to wonder how amazingly quick a Type C Constant Action would be with an LTT job. Like a Glock but without the suck!

[Basher]

Trigger time for me has been embarrassingly sparse for me this year. I’ve been sandbagged by health issues all year and made a career change to go with all of that, so time has been a precious commodity for us. But I finally forced myself to find time after work yesterday and I got after it. I’ve been dry firing some but not with any real structure to it, but I managed to turn in some respectable groups at 10y. I brought out my PX4 full-size, a 92G Centurion LTT RDO, and a P250 I picked up off the exchange here and hadn’t ever shot yet.

The P250 in a WC grip module was nice, but I need some focused dry fire with it to really be happy. It’d do the job, but my groups and splits could easily be cut in half still.

The 92G was out for the first time after I had to send it back to LTT for a front sight replacement. It departed mid-stage at a local USPSA match back in February, so I had LTT install a new one and eyeball it. It’s a tiny hair off to the right, but good enough as a backup for the RDO.

Then I went for the PX4. I hadn’t shot this one since March, right before all my health stuff kicked off. Wow! I only had a box or two through it total and I forgot just how smooth and light the recoil is. And even though the full-house Centurion has what I feel to be a better trigger, the PX4 shot some tiny off-hand groups! And to think that at one point I’d considered selling it lol. I actually picked up a compact today to match it, and hope to add all the LTT goodies to it in time.

But yes, this thread’s title is accurate. The PX4 is a true sleeper! The final touch on the full-size will be a stipple job as that’s one area Beretta dropped the ball IMO, but for what I paid for both of mine, I’m incredibly pleased. They’ll go into my carry rotation next year once I’m satisfied with my performance with them. Long live the PX4!