Recommend dot for USPSA/IDPA?

[FNG999]

Hi guys,
New here so please bear with me. Could someone please recommend a red dot for USPSA or IDPA Carry Optics? It will be going on an M&P 2.0 Core.
Thank you!

[David S.]

If you have to ask, then any option will be just fine.

For best value, I'd pick up a Holosun 507c or 407c (or 407co on the used market). It's a mid sized optic that does everything pretty well.

For a larger window, check out Trijicon SRO or you can hold out a couple months for the Holosun 507 Competition (https://www.kenziesoptics.com/product/holosun-507comp-red-dot/) (these are just starting to roll out)

I installed it using a C&H Precision adapter plate (https://chpws.com/product/sw-core-2-0-1-975/). It's probably an upgrade over the factory plastic plates. For best results, make sure you follow the mounting instructions and torque specs.

I think SIG makes a couple of nice optics, but I don't know anything about them.

[Clusterfrack]

Hi guys,
New here so please bear with me. Could someone please recommend a red dot for USPSA or IDPA Carry Optics? It will be going on an M&P 2.0 Core.
Thank you!

A larger window is a significant advantage. However, only a few optics have withstood the abuse of competition and heavy practice. The SRO is probably the best choice, despite its relatively poor glass quality. I have two.

But, If I needed a new optic, I would try the new Holosun 507 comp.

[FNG999]

Thank you guys! What MOA dot should I be looking to get, a larger one or a smaller one?

[crosseyedshooter]

My limited experience with pistol dots in general is to budget for two of them. Trijicon and Holosun are usually at the top of anyone's list. There are many threads dedicated to each on this forum.

If competition is the primary use, I think Trijicon SRO is currently the one to beat. I have two M&P 2.0 for Carry Optics, the primary is a 5" with SRO and the backup is a 4.25" with SRO. They use the same mags and shoot similarly enough that I can swap pistols if a dot comes loose or battery dies in the middle of a match or class. I personally haven't had any issues with the plastic adapter plates (degrease, blue thread lock, 18 in-lb) and I still witness mark my screws to help keep an eye on things. If two SROs stretches the budget too much, then two Holosun 407Cs cost about the same as one SRO. It's a slightly smaller window than the SRO but you get the option of a green dot.

My current IDPA gun is a P365XL with Holosun EPS Carry. It's not competitive compared to my M&Ps but I'm still having fun.

[LukeNCMX]

I like the 5 moa SRO. It has a long track record of success. I like the 5 MOA dot because it is bigger when dimmed down to a less distracting setting for darker conditions.

The new Holosun looks promising but I don’t do the early adopter thing with red dot sights.

[ECK]

I run SRO’s on my competition guns. The SRO has some short comings but for me the pros outweigh the cons, and both of mine are going on four years of steady USPSA shooting. After experimenting with different dot size I tend to prefer bigger dots, something in the 5-6MOA size. For me, that size provides a good balance between being able to pick up the dot quickly and accuracy. For USPSA, we’re talking minute of A-zone accuracy, not bullseye.

You can bump up the intensity of a smaller dot so it is quick to pick up, but for me that tends to create blooming which I find annoying. Whereas with a 5-6MOA dot I can run it a little dimmer for a more crisp dot.

As far as brands, I have Trijicon RMR and SROs, and a couple Holosuns (407k w/ 6MOA and 407CO with 8MOA ring). If Holosun would offer more models with a simple 6MOA red dot I would definitely buy them.

[Erick Gelhaus]

For IDPA/USPSA? I'll be a heretic ... a 32MOA circle on a Holosun or the large, empty circle on the new 507Comp. For just letting the reticle appear, that's the ticket for me.

[FNG999]

I just ordered the 5 MOA SRO, thanks guys!

[ECK]

Something else to consider is the quality of the customer service support. High round count red dots will fail at some point. Either from the normal use or from rough handling. Investing in a brand that has good customer support / warranty is a must IMO.

My first SRO finally died last year after three seasons of comp shooting, not sure of the round count but it was up there. The intensity buttons stopped working then shortly thereafter the emitter quit. I called Trij’s CS and no questions asked within the hour I had an RMA to ship the red dot back to them with a 6-8 week quoted turn-around. 5 weeks later I received an email saying the dot was coming back to me. They replaced the electronic guts and the lens (why I have no idea since the lens was fine, but thank you Trijicon!). Cost me $0.

If I can afford it, I like to have a backup gun for the divisions I shoot a lot, more or less set up the same if not identical. So during the time my original SRO was being repaired I was able to shoot my backup gun with the other SRO. For major matches I bring both guns so I have a backup if one of them goes T-U. Way easier and less hassle to switch guns than try to fix a gun at the range and this way I can concentrate on my shooting.

[ST911]

High round count red dots will fail at some point.

What constitutes "high round count" for a red dot?

[ECK]

What constitutes "high round count" for a red dot?

For a slide mounted red dot, I’d say north of 30K. I’ve heard of some shooters getting close to 100K out of their red dot before it died but that is prob the exception.

It may also depend on what you’re shooting. With powder puff competition loads you can probably go longer.

[FNG999]

Something else to consider is the quality of the customer service support. High round count red dots will fail at some point. Either from the normal use or from rough handling. Investing in a brand that has good customer support / warranty is a must IMO.

My first SRO finally died last year after three seasons of comp shooting, not sure of the round count but it was up there. The intensity buttons stopped working then shortly thereafter the emitter quit. I called Trij’s CS and no questions asked within the hour I had an RMA to ship the red dot back to them with a 6-8 week quoted turn-around. 5 weeks later I received an email saying the dot was coming back to me. They replaced the electronic guts and the lens (why I have no idea since the lens was fine, but thank you Trijicon!). Cost me $0.

If I can afford it, I like to have a backup gun for the divisions I shoot a lot, more or less set up the same if not identical. So during the time my original SRO was being repaired I was able to shoot my backup gun with the other SRO. For major matches I bring both guns so I have a backup if one of them goes T-U. Way easier and less hassle to switch guns than try to fix a gun at the range and this way I can concentrate on my shooting.

Oh man, 6-8 weeks for repair? I can see having 2 is a good practice.

[ECK]

Oh man, 6-8 weeks for repair? I can see having 2 is a good practice.

Yep, but they beat their initial estimate and returned it to me in 5 weeks.

[DMF13]

Something else to consider is the quality of the customer service support. High round count red dots will fail at some point. Either from the normal use or from rough handling. Investing in a brand that has good customer support / warranty is a must IMO.
Alternatively, buy it from Brownells to get their "Forever Guarantee." That's my plan when the HS507COMP becomes available.

[rawkguitarist]

For IDPA/USPSA? I'll be a heretic ... a 32MOA circle on a Holosun or the large, empty circle on the new 507Comp. For just letting the reticle appear, that's the ticket for me.
Erick, for competition the 32 moa circle has been great for me. Its the setting I've been carrying with too.

[DaBigBR]

Holosun's warranty handling is very similar. Submit claim online, emailed label shows up within a day, replacement dot within a few weeks.

[mmc45414]

I just ordered the 5 MOA SRO, thanks guys!
My experience is limited, but in this case maybe that makes it appropriate! :cool:
I did what you did and have been happy.
After I did a test case with a Swampfox I had a 5" M&P direct milled for a 5MOA SRO.
As a RDO newbie I wanted a big window with a big dot.

[BWT]

I had my SRO replaced as well.

Dot intensity would change when firing. Replaced batteries, other things, and it didn’t help. I think it was at 8 weeks.

They replaced it entirely works great since returning.

I’d recommend Trijicon as well.

[Archer1440]

Just a note to mention that open circle reticles really require a hard target focus, and “picking a spot” for optimal performance in terms of accuracy. The eye will naturally center the ring if you hard focus on the specific desired impact point.

Purely for competition purposes, a correctly trained shooter with proper target focus may actually be faster using a dot (shooting the streak) than one using a ring, but the ring may have advantages in extreme shooting positions that break normal indices, and support hand only shooting from awkward positions. Stuff that happens in the real world as well as in the game.

[FNG999]

I run SRO’s on my competition guns. The SRO has some short comings but for me the pros outweigh the cons, and both of mine are going on four years of steady USPSA shooting. After experimenting with different dot size I tend to prefer bigger dots, something in the 5-6MOA size. For me, that size provides a good balance between being able to pick up the dot quickly and accuracy. For USPSA, we’re talking minute of A-zone accuracy, not bullseye.

You can bump up the intensity of a smaller dot so it is quick to pick up, but for me that tends to create blooming which I find annoying. Whereas with a 5-6MOA dot I can run it a little dimmer for a more crisp dot.

As far as brands, I have Trijicon RMR and SROs, and a couple Holosuns (407k w/ 6MOA and 407CO with 8MOA ring). If Holosun would offer more models with a simple 6MOA red dot I would definitely buy them.

While waiting on my SRO.. what are the shortcomings that you're mentioning?

[ECK]

While waiting on my SRO.. what are the shortcomings that you're mentioning?

For comp use, the window is reasonably large but not as big as some of the other brands. The bezel is also a little thicker than others, but if you’re target focused that becomes less of an issue. The battery compartment is also a little awkward to unscrew, but there’s a tool somebody sells which makes it a lot easier. Lastly, it didn’t do as well well in Aaron Cowan’s drop test, but I suppose that’s only an issue if you drop it on a hard surface like concrete.

But aside from all that, it’s still my preferred optic.

[Bucky]

Another vote for the SRO with 5 minute dot. As someone who spent a LOT of time on a frame mounted CMore 8 minute, the SRO was the Goldilocks just right moment for me.

[mmc45414]

Lastly, it didn’t do as well well in Aaron Cowan’s drop test, but I suppose that’s only an issue if you drop it on a hard surface like concrete.
I do not have one, but I like the looks of the Jagerwerks B.R.O.S. (https://jagerwerks.com/b-r-o-s/)
Not certain I want one on a pistol (I want it to stay as low as possible) but if a person was worried about breaking their SRO it might be a consideration.