High Quality Rain Jacket

[El Cid]

Not sure if this is best posted here or in GD, but some of the rain gear threads of old were here.

I’ve decided it’s time to get a very high quality rain jacket for use at work. It needs to be durable and be able to keep me dry for hours in the rain. I’ve found a few brands, but am not familiar with a couple of them. Online reviews are hard to trust these days, so any first hand experience would be much appreciated. Yes, these are stupid expensive, but I’ve come to terms with paying for quality and performance.

The jacket needs velcro panels on the sleeves for ID placards. It also needs a hood that will accommodate a helmet. Zippered pits are a plus. I don’t need anything that is insulated – just rain protection. Ideally it would be Ranger Green, but I can live with similar colors or some of the grey options.

1) Arcteryx Alpha Gen 2: https://leaf.arcteryx.com/us/en/shop/mens/alpha-jacket-gen-2

2) Mantle Rain Jacket: https://mantle-clothing.com/product/mantle-rain-jacket-mod-1/

3) Carinthia PRG2.0: https://www.carinthia.eu/en/prg-2-0-jacket-p2912/

4) UF Pro: https://ufpro.com/us/tactical-jackets/rain-jackets/monsoon-xt-gen-2-tactical-rain-jacket#product-details (never heard of this company but the features they list seem well thought out)

These are the 4 I’ve found, with them in current order of preference. If y’all know of any other brands I should look at please list them below. Thanks!

[GJM]

I have been wearing Arcteryx hard shells for 21 years. Normal wear, busting thru brush, blood from hunting all over. They all, including my oldest one from 21 years ago, look and perform like new.

My most commonly worn model is a Beta.

Here is a link to understanding how their models are named:

https://www.barrabes.com/en-gb/blog/tips/2-163/how-to-understand-the-arcteryx

[DamonL]

I am not familiar with the other brands. I have use an Arcteryx Beta AR with Goretex Proshell for about 7 years and wore it daily from fall to spring. I like it because it is durable and waterproof. So I think the Arcteryx jacket you are looking at will do well.

[Default.mp3]

UF Pro is a European brand that's been around awhile. Have not heard anything negative about them, outside of their popularity with some of the more autistic members of the shooting community since they offer European colorways. I would put them second under Arc'teryx on your list, as they use actual real GORE-TEX; Mantle and Carinthia both fail to disclose the basics of the membrane they're using, which I don't particularly like, while both Arc'teryx and UF Pro state that they're using 3L GORE-TEX (with Arc'teryx calling out the specific line from GORE-TEX). Not to say that GORE-TEX is the best (though for your use, you'd almost certainly want 3 layer, regardless of the brand), but I'd like to know what membrane in general is being used, as there are many different brands, and each brand has many different lines.

Outdoor Research: https://www.outdoorresearch.com/us/shop/allies-mountain-jacket-289510
Wild Things Gear (only comes in MultiCam or Coyote): https://www.wildthingsgear.com/collections/new-hard-shell/products/rescue-jacket
Forgeline Solutions (previously Patagonia's military/LE line) offers a Foul Weather Jacket that utilizes a 3 layer membrane; it does not list it as having loop on the arms, but it could be worth reaching out and seeing if that's an option.
Beyond (only comes in MultiCam, black, or Coyote, no loop panel): https://beyondclothing.com/collections/axios/products/a6-rain-jacket-coyote
Otte Gear: https://ottegear.com/collections/jackets/products/patrol-parka
Sitka Arrowhead WWP Jacket is discontinued (the whole line was, probably due to the politics of Sitka's being owned by GORE-TEX, and thus competing with various other makers in that space also using GORE-TEX), but high quality, and you might be able to find some NOS in Lead (their version of wolf grey).

Alternatively, just find a jacket that you like and have someone add loop to the arms; this'll likely be cheaper since you can use a pro deal and then have someone reputable just add the loop for a lower cost than the military/LE specific jackets that tend to not have much of a pro deal. Technical repair specialists like Rainy Pass Repair (https://rainypass.com/), Renewt (https://renewt.com/), Rugged Thread (https://www.ruggedthread.com/), etc. The only real weakness I see with this is that you'll have to be careful on removing anything retroreflective off civilian hardshells.

Hoods that accommodate ballistic helmets are... eh. They can do it okay if it's a totally clean helmet (or something smaller, like a climbing helmet that SAR might use for rope work or whatever), but the moment you throw strobes, lights, ear pro, battery packs, etc., shit is not gonna fit over, and you'll have to route the hood under. My LEAF Alpha struggles to fit over my TW SAR that just has a strobe, and a light on each rail (Princeton Tec Charge and Streamlight HL-X on an Arisaka Offset Scout Mount Picatinny on the TW MOE rail), somewhat limiting my ability to turn my head left or right; it totally fails to cover any meaningful amount of my Ops-Core FAST SF that also has AMP Arms, battery pack, etc.

[flyrodr]

Can't comment on how they compare to the Arcteryx, but Simms has been making some really tough rain gear (and waders, etc.) for years. I've put a lot of years and miles on mine, and it's still working fine.

https://www.simmsfishing.com/collections/mens-rain-jackets

[theJanitor]

KUIU has several rain jackets that likely meet the requirements, aside from fitting a helmet

[ST911]

Beyond (only comes in MultiCam, black, or Coyote, no loop panel): https://beyondclothing.com/collections/axios/products/a6-rain-jacket-coyote

Good recommendations. When you start talking about Arc, Kuiu, PG, etc it's usually degrees of better and price rather than good vs bad.

Re: Beyond, The above is the US-made Berry jacket. The import variation is also excellent. Link:
https://beyondclothing.com/collections/jackets/products/arx-2-k6-rain-jacket

[rd62]

I have a Forloh Allclima Rain Jacket. It's made in Montana and works very well.

No idea if it would accommodate a helmet under the hood but I guess it depends on the helmet and it doesn't have velcro on the sleeves.

[El Cid]

Awesome stuff! This is one of the reasons PF is the best forum, period.

I have a ton of KUIU. They are my favorite brand but their rain jackets don’t offer Velcro on the shoulders. I’m not sure how effective it would be to try attaching it. Sewing obviously puts holes in the outer membrane, and I haven’t seen an adhesive that lasts long on rough use gear.

I’ll check these others mentioned. And great intel on Gore Tex! I wouldn’t have thought to pay attention to the lack of descriptors.

Much appreciated!

[Default.mp3]

I have a ton of KUIU. They are my favorite brand but their rain jackets don’t offer Velcro on the shoulders. I’m not sure how effective it would be to try attaching it. Sewing obviously puts holes in the outer membrane, and I haven’t seen an adhesive that lasts long on rough use gear.What technical repairers/alterers will do is put a GORE-TEX (or whatever brand) patch or seam tape in where they sewed the loop panels on and penetrated the membrane, so that it remains waterproof. Same thing that they would do more or less when repairing hardshells with large holes or tears that you can't just slap a repair patch on; I had to do this when I tore my LEAF Alpha Bib, and I didn't watch to use a repair patch since it would mess up the MultiCam pattern (gotta look cool to be cool), so Renewt just used a really big membrane patch on the inside to close it back up (it was at the knee, with a lot of flexing, so the larger contact area was wanted.). So, you can't just take it to your local alterations shop, but it is totally a viable option.

[paherne]

I had a Watershed custom rainsuit made for uniform patrol. Best money I ever spent. https://www.wearewatershed.com/product/jackets/tango/ I'd message them and see if they've tested the hood with a helmet.

[t1tan]

I’ve been eying the Mantle myself

[High Cross]

A friend of mine who was a UK Security forces in Northern Ireland swore by Helly Hansen so that is what I use

[Jay585]

A friend of mine who was a UK Security forces in Northern Ireland swore by Helly Hansen so that is what I use

Helly Hansen Impertechs is what was recommended by Alaskan outdoorsmen and what I wore doing backcountry trail work with SAGA in southeast Alaska.

https://www.hhworkwear.com/en_us_ww/catalogsearch/result/?q=impertech&ct=regular_search

It's not fancy but it worked

[Default.mp3]

Helly Hansen Impertechs is what was recommended by Alaskan outdoorsmen and what I wore doing backcountry trail work with SAGA in southeast Alaska.

https://www.hhworkwear.com/en_us_ww/catalogsearch/result/?q=impertech&ct=regular_search

It's not fancy but it workedImpertech is not breathable at all, so while it'll definitely keep the rain out, if you start sweating it'll keep all that moisture inside unless you have some ability to vent. The back vents offered are not going to play well with a PC over them (though perhaps you may wear the PC under?), and would likely suck to use in any kind of prone position.

Helly Hansen definitely makes quality gear in general, including wonderful hardshells (you'll see a lot of ski patrollers use HH, as a testament to their durability and quality), but they don't exactly come in earth tone colors typically. Hunting oriented techwear would be the better option to look at (e.g., Sitka, KUIU, Norrøna, etc.) if we're going to wander away from LE/military specific lines, rather than high end sporting-oriented brands (e.g., HH, Patagonia, Mammut, Stio, BERINGIA, RAB, etc.).

[TOTS]

Black Diamond is what was provided on a guided climb of Mt Ranier last year. I recently bought an Outdoor Research Foray shell and absolutely love it. It’s a two layer shell so slightly on the thin side; id go for their three layer shell. Made to fit a helmet, too. Pretty much any brand that offers the Goretex brand and a lifetime warranty will do you right. Just shop the features that are important to you (pit zips, etc) and color. Arcteryx is definitely the standard, and a phenomenal product, but I don’t find the price justified over the other brands listed in these threads.

For the best robustness/price point value, a mil-surplus ECCWS set can’t be beat if you don’t mind wearing camo.

[El Cid]

I have been wearing Arcteryx hard shells for 21 years.





My LEAF Alpha struggles to fit over my TW SAR that just has a strobe, and a light on each rail (Princeton Tec Charge and Streamlight HL-X on an Arisaka Offset Scout Mount Picatinny on the TW MOE rail), somewhat limiting my ability to turn my head left or right; it totally fails to cover any meaningful amount of my Ops-Core FAST SF that also has AMP Arms, battery pack, etc.

How is the overall sizing on the Arcteryx rain jackets? Measuring and using their size guide I'm between XL and XXL. But I've seen reviews online that seem to indicate they run large.

Thanks!

[Default.mp3]

How is the overall sizing on the Arcteryx rain jackets? Measuring and using their size guide I'm between XL and XXL. But I've seen reviews online that seem to indicate they run large.The hardshells do tend to run a little baggier, due to their intention for layering. The different lines (e.g., Beta SV vs. Alpha SV) will also have different cuts and sizing, given that they are optimized for different sports/equipment. I try to wear XS from Arc'teryx when I can find it; FWIW, my LEAF Hot Weather Combat Shirts are in XS, Crye G3 and G4 Combat Shirts in XS Reg, and my LEAF Alpha in XS, with the Alpha fitting slightly loose, but not noticeably so, while the combat shirts are basically a perfect fit with my chest (the Crye sleeves are rather... big; not long, just too big a circumference, IMO); I originally had a LEAF Alpha in S, and it was noticeably baggier, though still perfectly useable and did not noticeably get in my way typically (though the hood was still too small to comfortably fit over my TW SAR with everything and still have proper range of motion).

I think going off the size guide is a relatively safe bet to start out with, and most reputable places that sell Arc'teryx allow for free exchanges (though I don't know about the LEAF stuff, since some of the dealers there are much smaller).

[Chewbacca10]

https://tripleaughtdesign.com/products/stealth-hoodie-lt-prt/

[GJM]

https://tripleaughtdesign.com/products/stealth-hoodie-lt-prt/

I have this jacket and liked it a lot, until the waterproofing failed after a few years. It is a shame because the jacket is otherwise fine.

[theJanitor]

I've had several TAD softshells over the years, and they all had the rear outer fabric start to separate from the inner layers, creating a saggy loose stop under the hood/collar.

I love the design and fit though

[PNWTO]

I rotate between an OR Foray and Patagonia Torrentshell; slight edge to the Patagonia piece, IME.

Patagonia’s Granite Crest jacket looks pretty good as well.

For more-rounded styling, the Fjällräven Visby is pricy but pretty handy.

[rawkguitarist]

I have been wearing Arcteryx hard shells for 21 years. Normal wear, busting thru brush, blood from hunting all over. They all, including my oldest one from 21 years ago, look and perform like new.

My most commonly worn model is a Beta.

Here is a link to understanding how their models are named:

https://www.barrabes.com/en-gb/blog/tips/2-163/how-to-understand-the-arcteryx

I LOVE Arcteryx gear. I have at least a dozen garments from them and I'll always have it and will probably buy more. But 100% of my Goretex jackets from them have delaminated. I don't really blame Arcteryx. Its Goretex textiles. One was under warranty. But my warranty replacement delaminated too. The others delaminated right after the warranty period. I used Revivex DWR and detergent and followed all instructions on how to care for them. A $550 jacket should last more than 6 years.

So no more Goretex jackets for me. When I get another hard shell it will probably be a $150 non-Goretex jacket.

I have Grunden's on my radar.

[El Cid]

The hardshells do tend to run a little baggier, due to their intention for layering. The different lines (e.g., Beta SV vs. Alpha SV) will also have different cuts and sizing, given that they are optimized for different sports/equipment. I try to wear XS from Arc'teryx when I can find it; FWIW, my LEAF Hot Weather Combat Shirts are in XS, Crye G3 and G4 Combat Shirts in XS Reg, and my LEAF Alpha in XS, with the Alpha fitting slightly loose, but not noticeably so, while the combat shirts are basically a perfect fit with my chest (the Crye sleeves are rather... big; not long, just too big a circumference, IMO); I originally had a LEAF Alpha in S, and it was noticeably baggier, though still perfectly useable and did not noticeably get in my way typically (though the hood was still too small to comfortably fit over my TW SAR with everything and still have proper range of motion).

I think going off the size guide is a relatively safe bet to start out with, and most reputable places that sell Arc'teryx allow for free exchanges (though I don't know about the LEAF stuff, since some of the dealers there are much smaller).

Thanks!

[Chewbacca10]

I have this jacket and liked it a lot, until the waterproofing failed after a few years. It is a shame because the jacket is otherwise fine.

Yikes! I’ve not had mine long enough to see that. That is disappointing.

[Up1911Fan]

Good recommendations. When you start talking about Arc, Kuiu, PG, etc it's usually degrees of better and price rather than good vs bad.

Re: Beyond, The above is the US-made Berry jacket. The import variation is also excellent. Link:
https://beyondclothing.com/collections/jackets/products/arx-2-k6-rain-jacket

This, I have the pants and jacket and am impressed with both.

[Dr_Thanatos]

I have the Otte Patrol Parka Hardshell. It uses eVent for the moisture barrier. It meets all of your criteria. I have enjoyed it quite a lot, and had it for about 13 years now. Got the pants also. (On sale, they're stuff used to be competitively priced. No idea now.)

I don't do cool guy shit, I was just tired of being wet.

[DamonL]

I LOVE Arcteryx gear. I have at least a dozen garments from them and I'll always have it and will probably buy more. But 100% of my Goretex jackets from them have delaminated. I don't really blame Arcteryx. Its Goretex textiles. One was under warranty. But my warranty replacement delaminated too. The others delaminated right after the warranty period. I used Revivex DWR and detergent and followed all instructions on how to care for them. A $550 jacket should last more than 6 years.

So no more Goretex jackets for me. When I get another hard shell it will probably be a $150 non-Goretex jacket.

I have Grunden's on my radar.

You bring up a good point. I have had the hem cord lamination fail on three shells. Two fixed under warranty by sewing the hem and one not fixed because out of warranty. I took the out-of-warranty jacket to a local seamstress to sew. Because its at the hem, I wasn't worried about being sewn through. If you look at the warranty submission site, a sample picture of damage is the hem failure. So I guess this might be a common problem.

It was worth fixing because I am still using all of these jackets years after repair.

[PD Sgt.]

I just picked up the Otte Patrol Parka this week after seeing this thread and realizing my old Marmot may no longer be up to solid downpours for long periods of time. First impressions are very good, solid construction and well seamed/taped.

I had considered the dead bird, but 800 plus dollars for a rain jacket seemed steeper than I wanted to pay. What sealed it for me however was by buying the grey instead of the ranger green (my current position does not require the green) the price went from $650 to $250. Add in my .gov discount and it came in just under $200. I figured even if it is 85% of the Arc, at one quarter the cost I will take it.

[El Cid]

I just picked up the Otte Patrol Parka this week after seeing this thread and realizing my old Marmot may no longer be up to solid downpours for long periods of time. First impressions are very good, solid construction and well seamed/taped.

I had considered the dead bird, but 800 plus dollars for a rain jacket seemed steeper than I wanted to pay. What sealed it for me however was by buying the grey instead of the ranger green (my current position does not require the green) the price went from $650 to $250. Add in my .gov discount and it came in just under $200. I figured even if it is 85% of the Arc, at one quarter the cost I will take it.

Good info! The Beyond jacket that Default.mp3 posted is also on sale. $249 for black and $299 for coyote.

https://beyondclothing.com/products/a6-rain-jacket-coyote?variant=32446152867902

[JohnO]

I don't put much faith in semi-permeable membranes like Gore-Tex in the high humidity of Summer in the NorthEast.

https://www.patagonjournal.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=495%3A8-things-you-should-know-about-gore-tex&catid=77%3Asoft-footprint-travel-gear&Itemid=266&lang=en


2) Gore-tex is meant for cool places, not the tropics
A breathable membrane of any kind won’t be much help when you’re in the Amazon. In basic terms, your hot sweat molocules need a cooler place to escape to. That works great when you’re skiing or hiking in the mountains. In the hot, humid tropics however, the sweat has nowhere to go. It’s just as hot and humid outside as it is around your body. So the sweat just sits there. Technology can’t save you there—unless it’s the technology in your air-conditioned hotel room. So this is exactly what you want for skiing/snowboarding, hiking, or living in a place like Seattle or Iceland, but not what you want for a boat ride down the Amazon.

My experience has been exactly as described above. A cheap PVC rain slicker and a fancy high tech shell perform the virtually the same in high humidity.

[42Willys]

I have this jacket and liked it a lot, until the waterproofing failed after a few years. It is a shame because the jacket is otherwise fine.

Mine lasted about 10 years before the waterproofing material in the shoulder area gave out. Maybe I didn’t clean it enough but I tried. Still, ten years is a long time.

Edit for clarity: this is about the Triple Aught Stealth LT

[theJanitor]

TAD looks like it's being auctioned off: PUBLIC NOTICE OF SECURED PARTY SALE: Triple Aught Design LLC

https://www.dailydac.com/public-notice-of-secured-party-sale-triple-aught-design-llc/

[Hot Sauce]

TAD looks like it's being auctioned off: PUBLIC NOTICE OF SECURED PARTY SALE: Triple Aught Design LLC

https://www.dailydac.com/public-notice-of-secured-party-sale-triple-aught-design-llc/

Wow, great find. Woulda never known just looking at their site.

[theJanitor]

Not my find. I saw it on another forum :cool: