Operation Z featuring Chris Costa

[JConn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=W8HrKdGcYh0

New ludus?

[CCT125US]

:) heh heh that should be entertaining, love the zombie stories

[gtmtnbiker98]

Goes to show you, fanbois will buy anything.

[TGS]

That guy makes a living off of stupid people. It's just amazing.

I'm not against the whole zombie genre......I actually love the zombie genre. I own both Max Tucker's World War Z (my purchase), and his Zombie Survival Guide (gift). I love The Walking Dead TV show.

But this just reeks of stupid. The fact that Chris Costa is the main star makes it even more stupid. I don't appreciate the photographic use of actual dead human beings for jovial entertainment enterprises, either. That's just straight up disrespectful and selfish on so many levels.

[Ed L]

I don't appreciate the photographic use of actual dead human beings for jovial entertainment enterprises, either. That's just straight up disrespectful and selfish on so many levels.

After I saw the promo once or twice I have to agree that the mock national crisis and real footage of dead bodies is in poor taste.

I posted a response to this on Chris Costa's facebook page, to which he responded with an explanation, and to which I responded.

I hate the whole zombie thing and how it has permeated the gun industry. I feel it has gotten to the point where it is trivializing a serious subject.

My post reflected this, but was written to be humerous and way over the top fashion in the style of a Deam Martin celebrity Roast or Friar's Club Roast. I was on pain meds for my back at the time, and I suspect most of it would have been bleeped and even made Redd Fox uncomfortable.

Here is what I wrote with some editing for clarity and to tone it down a little:

"First, I am a big fan of Chris Costa. I attended his carbine class, thought he was a fantastic teacher and a truely dynamic individual, and wrote an article about him that appeared in SWAT magazine. I would even buy his $100 action figure if it wasnt for the fact that I thought it was more important to donate that money to the NRA Political Victory Fund.

However, I hate zombies, and any mention of them, especially when brought into a serious or even a semi-serious converstaion. It sickens me to see him alligning himself witha Zombie project.

I feel that any commentary about fictitious monsters hurts credibility. It stinks of live action role playing.

I realize that Chris has met with a huge amount of success and gets all types of offers. Were I him and someone offered me a part in a film, documentary, even a semiserious one, involving zombies, I would treat them with the same outrage as if they offered me money to perform some sexual act.

I'm deeply disappointed in him. Someone needs to stage an intervention.

I realize that some big name trainers Like Kyle Defoor, have appeared in some zombie oriented features, but that doesn't make it right, credible or even sensible.

It is one thing to talk about defensive firearms, but as soon as people discuss using them against fictitional dead or undead creatures we have credibitlity problems.

Aren't there enough live humanoid predators and threats to worry about?

Maybe talking about shooting zombies makes it politically palitable and safe for everyday conversation rather than saying, 'gee, I might have to shoot a crackhead who attacks me in the parking lot, or use my AR to blast a bunch of thugs who try to force their way into my home.' But rather than mentioneing fictitious creatures that exist in bad TV series as an explanation as to why you own firearms, simply explain that you enjoy owning and shooting them and a quick perusal of any newspapers provides description of many dangerous criminals who require multiple shots to end their nefarious actions.

And now we have firearms companies, optics manufacturers, and ammo companies jumping on the moronic zombie bandwagon--many of who should first worry about producing a product that works reliably before they add silly fictitious creatures to the mix.

Yes it sells. So why not market Brokeback Mountain Leverguns, like they used in that movie: "Winchester: I Wish I knew How To Quit You." Even have KY introduce a weapons lube for the crossover market.

What the f*@% is wrong with people?

C'mon, if someone posted that 45-70s were good against goblins, orcs, and Harry Potter they would have their masculinity and sanity questioned.

But somehow zombies are okay?

Someone needs to take a stand against this stupidity.

I feel like the Peter Finch Character in the movie Network, who encouraged people to scream "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore" (or more likely some moron ranting on Youtube; but I prefer to try to maintain the illusion of an Oscar winning performance).

Meanwhile I can't turn around without finding some zombie product or another, but really have to search to find some Darvocet for my wrecked back. Talk about a paradox. If anything, zombies have proven to be far more addictive than Darvocet."

[Ed L]

Here is what Chris Costa wrote in response:

"When first approached for this project, I thought the same as you did. I basically said GTFOH. Zombies? Why not Gang bangers, thugs, or psychopaths? And the truth is.... It's too real. Asking someone with absolutely no gun experience to shoot a real person scares the living shit out of them. But shooting something that is a complete fantasy makes it that much easier to teach someone how to use a weapon and eventually kill the threat.

I was asked to look at zombies not as zombies but more as a metaphor. Zombies being the collapse of a society and in order to survive, you need to learn the necessities of survival. The group that was trained had never been around this type of training and most likely would never know that there are Carbine 1 or Handgun 2 type of classes to take or would even attend. This gave them the introduction to devices that can potentially save their lives. These are your everyday teachers, mailmen, gardeners, etc. and when something happens, what are they going to do?

If we laid out 2 tools, a ninja sword and a Stanley FatMax, which would you take to help you potentially kill people and keep your survivability rate up? The average untrained person would take the sword because it could slice, dice, and fillet an enemy. The smarter choice would be the FatMax because you can hit them with blunt force and use it as a tool to breach into a building so that you can provide cover for yourself. That's the mission of Operation Z. To draw an outside crowd the would be unaware of how to do things if something catastrophic happened and give them a helping hand and introduce easier methods. I get it, the whole zombie thing is either a love it or really hate it deal but its much simpler to think about killing zombies than a real person. For you and me, it's a no brainer. For somebody else, there's sometimes a slight hesitation. I hope that kind of clarifies the goal of this project."

[orionz06]

Does that mean there is a Costa Ludus Stanley FatMax in the works?

[Ed L]

I wasn't even aware what a FatMax was, which means I probably need to buy his tapes :(

Here is what I wrote in response to Chris Costas's response and posted it on his facebook page.

"Chris, thanks for taking the time to write that thoughtful and well-reasoned reply. From what I understand you will have a 12 DVD series on surviving a Zombie Apocalypse and how those skills and mindsets translate into general firearms and defensive use, and surviving all varieties of natural and man made disasters and emergencies. It looks like the first DVD will be on the use of a handgun. I would be interested to know the themes and contents of the rest of the set.

I've found your Magpul Dynamics instructional videos to be first rate and really enjoyed my time training with you and working on the SWAT article about your class. I might even consider purchasing your new series, had I not just dropped a bunch of money on the complete Dark Shadows DVD collection as a birthday gift for myself.

I've long understood the reference to Zombies as being a euphemism for crime and breakdown preparation. However I felt this was pussyfooting instead of simply referring to them as violent criminal attackers who are often armed. Besides, an appeal of Zombies is that they can be relatively easily dealt with by even a slight teenager armed with a head smashing bludgeon weapon.

If we are going to use metaphors to illustrate dangerous threats and possible times of criminal and social upheaval I believe Werewolves or Lycans from the Underworld movie series represents a more formidable threat that requires far more effective skill, armament and preparation. I mean these heavily armed creatures are like NFL lineman on a steroid binge after a bathsalt overdose. Thus, when I practice I am armed with at least a pair of HK45 longslide match autos while dressed in a black leather catsuit like Kate Beckensale wore in the Underworld movies.

If we are looking for cinematic examples of dealing with criminals, we had Charles Bronson in Death Wish long before Zombies became a popular worry. I'm talking about the early Deathwish, not the later movies that went off the deep end where Bronson took on the Mafia and multicultural streetgangs dressed in leftover costumes from the Broadway musicals Godspell and Hair.

We don't have to look toward science fiction or rely on fantasy zombies to see effective examples of fighting dangerous criminals while employing aggressive tactics and attitude. Just watch Joe Pesci overwhelm a larger threat using nothing more than a pen in the movie Casino:

Warning, the clip below of Joe Pesci doing in a bigger guy has NWS bad language:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxKiK-SeBhE


Imagine a criminal expecting a passive victim and found himself on the receiving end of that counterattack.

Another fine cinematic example of ignoring fear and standing up to overwhelming aggressors in dire consequences in recent films takes place in the movie Kill The Irishman, based on the real life saga of dockworker Danny Greene who challenged Cleveland's organized crime in the 1970s, destroying many lethal rivals including Christopher Walken, while gaining valuable law enforcement experience since he served as an FBI confidential Informant while doing in his criminal rivals.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_uoDiEDEsY

In short, I understand the Zombie metaphor but feel there are more realistic ways, and better people to model. Really, would you rather be some nobody actor from a bad zombie movie or show, or academy award winning tough guy Joe Pesci or real life badass Danny Greene, who used his fists, firearms and explosives to eliminate some real life threats?

[TGS]

Here is what Chris Costa wrote in response:

Riiiiiiiiight.

I think these 2 photos much more plausibly explain the strategy going on:
1105

1106

Not to mention explaining the selfish use of photos. I wonder how he'd feel if the photos used for entertainment were of his family laying there chopped up.

[Ed L]

Because he shoots well, looks good while doing so and emanates a genuine coolness without really trying, Chris Costa has developed a huge fanbase among shooters who would love to be him. The whole thing has turned into a joke upon itself with people asking what brand of socks he wears.

I don't hold this against him, because he is a genuinely nice guy and actually has a humerous outlook on it.

I do think this whole Zombie Defense series tapes and this zombie fad in general is incredibly stupid for the reasons I already stated.

If I were him and approached with this idea, I would have told the people to get the F away from me. But I don't have a wife and family to support so I can't look at it from the same perpective he does.

[Nephrology]

Don't let money change ya...

[orionz06]

I am gonna go out on a limb and venture to guess that Costa never asked for the fanboism he has. Cannot hold all of it against him.

[JConn]

I am gonna go out on a limb and venture to guess that Costa never asked for the fanboism he has. Cannot hold all of it against him.

Don't hate the playa hate the game?

[orionz06]

Don't hate the playa hate the game?

More or less. Trust me, I am the very first person to make a joke out of any of this crap that I can but at the end of the day it us just that, don't hate the playa hate the game.

The other aspect of it is that some of the fanbois turn into what we want to call "shooters" and that is good. For every stupid fanboi out there trying to see how far they can throw a magazine because YouTube there is a girlfriend who goes shooting too. That is good. Laugh at it, have fun with it, ignore it, but it ain't going away, no matter how hard you try.

[JConn]

Honestly, if just a few more shooters are exposed to the rules of firearms safety and shown the proper way to hold and shoot a firearm, this series will be positive. I like zombie movies, and have been known to make zombie jokes, but generally dislike the zombie craze in the firearms industry. I do think we tend to expect everyone to make the jump from "shooting a gun would be cool" to "how do I shave .0005 seconds of my draw" right away though. There are many steps a lot of people take in the journey to being a competent shooter. These videos could very well provide the impetuous for some new shooter to seek out someone to teach them that "supersickawesome reload" and they could get quality training as a result. Are they a little stupid? Yes. Are they as bad as a zombie themed Taurus judge? No.

Also, as an unrepentant free market capitalist, I am all for someone making as much money off of their skill set as possible. Costa is a great shooter and a charismatic teacher and should take advantage of the fact that he has achieved a small amount of fame in an industry that doesn't have household names. If he can get people to buy it, good for him.

[Sadmin]

Agree with Orionz; it's not my bag but neither was buying the latest Jordans 10 years in a row while sticking my damn tongue out every time I jumped.
Imitation is the highest form of a compliment and the guy didn't get to where he is by being a shitty shot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk; coherency may be in jeopardy.

[TGS]

So today I had an interesting phone call. I had left a message on Costa Ludus' answering machine concerning the footage, and Chris Costa felt it important enough to call me back about it. He was genuinely concerned.

He assured me that the footage has been removed (or is in the process of being removed). He also told me that they already had the advertisement edited once, as the advertisement originally had graphic footage of a police officer being shot. Apparently there was confusion from staff thinking it wasn't real, and when they realized it was indeed real they obviously knew it should be removed since it was out of context and in poor taste. Ditto the footage of massacre victims when the office/he got my message.

Then he asked me what my opinion was on how to use the footage for its original purpose (teaching and to add levity/context to the medical lesson DVD). I explained, and he seemed to understand where I was coming from, that the use of the footage is perfectly acceptable for inside the DVD medical lessons when used for teaching or to make an impression on the viewer that bad shit DOES happen, and here's real world examples of why it's good for you to learn. The part I explained was that in showing that same footage in the advertisement, it doesn't appear to be used for that purpose/context but rather for pure advertisement. Instead, I suggested the advertisement be more along the lines of his Art of the Rifle DVD's, where instead of footage of actual massacre victims in their undignified state the content/message of the DVD could be advertised with short out-takes of the actual lessons; the advertisement for Operation Z did this, but not with the medical section and instead used the massacre footage along with other footage of civil unrest in a docudrama sort of advertisement strategy. In short, making the advertisement a mini-docudrama as they've done can be an effective selling technique, but shouldn't be done using some of the footage that was chosen simply for respect to those humans and their families who've suffered.

I'm pretty impressed with Mr. Costa for calling me back, and moreso for asking my opinion on how this could be more effectively executed. He ended up on the phone with me for a good half hour.

For everyone who boohoo'd humanity and how cruel the gun community is when Jerry Tsai/Recoil Magazine was eaten alive, I think this is living proof that isn't the case. Your career will not be needlessly destroyed by mob-mentality public opinion in the gun community just because of one honest mistake. Rather, when you rectify it and drive on, the results are much different.

[Byron]

TGS,

Thank you for leaving him a message and for expressing your concerns to him when he called back. I also appreciate you sharing the story here.

I was also put off by the images used in the trailer, and am glad to hear that your concerns were given consideration.

[orionz06]

Good on him for talking to you. Sure beats what others have done.

[Chemsoldier]

For everyone who boohoo'd humanity and how cruel the gun community is when Jerry Tsai/Recoil Magazine was eaten alive, I think this is living proof that isn't the case. Your career will not be needlessly destroyed by mob-mentality public opinion in the gun community just because of one honest mistake. Rather, when you rectify it and drive on, the results are much different.

Great point TGS. Someone in the gun community was involved in something that was in poor taste and worked to rectify it and addressed it honestly instead of with bluster and denial. In doing so he ended the issue. What a contrast with the actions of Jerry Tsai.

[Ed L]

Honestly, if just a few more shooters are exposed to the rules of firearms safety and shown the proper way to hold and shoot a firearm, this series will be positive. I like zombie movies, and have been known to make zombie jokes, but generally dislike the zombie craze in the firearms industry. I do think we tend to expect everyone to make the jump from "shooting a gun would be cool" to "how do I shave .0005 seconds of my draw" right away though. There are many steps a lot of people take in the journey to being a competent shooter. These videos could very well provide the impetuous for some new shooter to seek out someone to teach them that "supersickawesome reload" and they could get quality training as a result. Are they a little stupid? Yes. Are they as bad as a zombie themed Taurus judge? No.

This is an excellent point. More shooters and gunowners means more of a constituancy for gunrights. Better trained shooters means safer shooters--especially if the tape series is bought by people with no formal training. It can serve as a safety overview and encourage them to get training.

[Ed L]

TGS,

Excellent work with contacting Chris Costa!

Throughout all of my criticism, I always meantained that he was a great guy as evidenced by my past interactions and training with him and from seeing him teach and interact with other people. Here we have a big name instructor returning the call of someone whom he doesn't know for the purpose of responding to criticism and willing to consider and impliment changes.

If I was thinking, I probably should have done something likewise. I am not sure that he knew what to make of my comical over the top rants on his FB page.

[TGS]

TGS,

Excellent work with contacting Chris Costa!

Throughout all of my criticism, I always meantained that he was a great guy as evidenced by my past interactions and training with him and from seeing him teach and interact with other people. Here we have a big name instructor returning the call of someone whom he doesn't know for the purpose of responding to criticism and willing to consider and impliment changes.

If I was thinking, I probably should have done something likewise. I am not sure that he knew what to make of my comical over the top rants on his FB page.

In all honesty, it's not like I was the shining pillar of diplomacy in my voice-mail message...at the time, I was thinking of some foreign officers I had served with....lived with....from Africa who went through massacres and dedicated the last 15 years of their lives to non-stop warfare, in their back yards and among their families and neighbors, against horrible men that make Bin Laden look like a Ronald McDonald in comparison; so it's fair to say there was some emotion in my message. I didn't even leave my phone number for a return call, as I honestly didn't expect one and was just letting my point be known. He's apparently traveling right now, so he got my phone number on the machine from his office staff and called me back on his cell while traveling. He stated that one of the reasons he was calling back is because I obviously didn't have a problem with saying what I thought needed to be said, so he wanted to hear it straight from me and get my opinion.

I was definitely impressed by him. He mentioned some of the difficulties he's encountered with running his own company, and I certainly hope I'd be able to handle them as well as he does if I ever find myself in similar shoes.

[TCinVA]

Good on him for talking to you. Sure beats what others have done.

One hears lots of stuff about Mr. Costa...but whenever I've dealt with him one on one I've found him to be a very reasonable, respectful, polite fellow.