Which JM Custom for AIWB?

[HammerStriker]

I'm 5'10 and 170lbs, 32" waist and am thinking of ordering the below holster package for my M&P shield 3.1in. What do you guys think?

Quick Ship AIWB Holster
Belt Loops: 1.5" Pull the dot
Mid sweat guard
Flat tear drop muzzle pad
Red Dot Sight Cut

Do I need the muzzle pad? Should I go with the angular wedge instead?

Should I go with one of the newer AIWB models with the claw instead?

The AIWB non-claw holster appeals to me because of the smaller overall footprint. Also the models with a claw are 4" instead of 3.1", supposedly the extra length helps with comfort and conceal-ability. Honestly, I'm not really buying this, I think it is largely BS spin so that these holster manufactures can offer 1 size for pistols that come in both 3" and 4" barrel lengths (like the shield).

[Jay585]

I'm not really buying this, I think it is largely BS spin[/b] so that these holster manufactures can offer 1 size for pistols that come in both 3" and 4" barrel lengths (like the shield).

It's not. I'll buy a G17 or G34 length for my G19 for extra tuck-ability.

https://www.phlsterholsters.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Concealmentmechanics12-scaled.jpg

From: https://www.phlsterholsters.com/the-basics-of-concealment-mechanics/

Claw is well worth it and personally I'd skip the wedge and go buy a foam block at WalMart and cut out your own wedge.

[WDR]

Extra length is not "BS" ... guns with short muzzles can "roll" over the top of the belt, and extra length helps counter that. Wedges and claws serve similar purposes in different directions. The real answer is you'll have to try things for yourself, as every body is different. Belt type/tension and what gun you are concealing also matters.

JM makes excellent holsters, and I have several. the 2.5 is the model I use IIRC. I have been thinking about trying a "George" for a G26, without the extra length, for extended use sitting in vehicles. I use Mastermind appendix carry pillows instead of foam wedges.

[HammerStriker]

It's not. I'll buy a G17 or G34 length for my G19 for extra tuck-ability.



Claw is well worth it and personally I'd skip the wedge and go buy a foam block at WalMart and cut out your own wedge.

Thanks for the info. Wouldn't putting a foam wedge mitigate the keeling issue with small guns?

I feel like owning a 3.1 in shield is pointless if I'm going to carry it around in a holster made for a 4" gun. After all, the reason I bought the shield is because it is small...

[Jay585]

Thanks for the info. Wouldn't putting a foam wedge mitigate the keeling issue with small guns?

I feel like owning a 3.1 in shield is pointless if I'm going to carry it around in a holster made for a 4" gun. After all, the reason I bought the shield is because it is small...

Why? Most of it is below the belt and behind your pants.

Let's look at it as if you're trying to pry a stump out of the ground.

You got your fulcrum point and a lever. In this example the wedge is the fulcrum point and holster length is the lever. If you have a big wedge and short holster, there's not much force to wedge the gun into your body. By the time you get the appropriate amount of wedge to actually press the gun into the body, you're printing below the belt. Longer holster needs less amount of wedge in order to press that grip into your stomach.

[RJ]

Excellent info in this thread.

I lost a bunch of weight 2021-22 and got to 178; I'm 5'6", size 34. During that time, I had two JM AIWB rigs, one for my Glock 26 and one for my P365X. The G26 I ordered in G19 length (and ended up carrying the G19 anyway); same for the P365 i.e. XL length.

As to the wing claw and/or pad, I've found this is very much a personal fit issue determined by trial (lots) and error (also lots). You have to be willing to put the effort in and make it work. If it doesn't work, you have to keep adjusting, putting parts on, and off, reloacating the holster on your belt, adjusting tension on the belt, swapping clips from top mount to bottom mount, trying DCC clips in different sizes, tweaking the angle of the holster on the belt. In other words, pretty much almost everything about AIWB had to be custom fit. There's nobody shaped quite like you, so asking what works for other folks did me no good at all. I had to try everything under the sun before it worked for me.

I will say the concept of buying a longer length holster for a shorter muzzle gun is for real. It certainly was for me. However the benefit of carrying that way is if you end up with the shorter gun (e.g. G26 v G19; P365X v P365XL) you are shaving a couple ounces off your carry rig weight. For larger humans, this may not matter, but for those of us who are smaller in stature it does make a difference.

Not sure if mentioned but Clusterfrack's invention of the Junk Carry Pillow (small fabric bag stuffed with polyfil, sewn with velcro strips) was a game changer for me. A commercial version is made by MMT as the Appendix Carry Pillow. I made a couple JCP's but currently use two ACP's on my P365X rig; one below for comfort and one above that I took the stuffing out of to serve as a cusion against my tummy in the inguinal crease.

The Melody Lauer holster hack (Dr. Scholl's Women's Gel Heel Pad) also helps sometimes.

Dragged in a couple snap shots just to illustrate some of the different setups I used over the last couple years. I'm no expert but maybe some ideas here to try.

P365XL WC Grip Module sitting in a JM CK AIWB WC 2.5. I asked Tony to put holes top and bottom, so I could play around with clips. As shown is a single DCC clip.
105183

P365X in RCS Perun, deflated MMT top, Melody Lauer hack bottom. Left top is my gray MMT ACP, left bottom is a JCP I sewed myself (I know, the picture is not appendix, but it shows the pads I used)
105181


EDC rig night before my Miami Tim Herron class last spring: G19 MOS in JM CK AIWB 2.5 WC, deflated MMT ACP top, regular ACP bottom.
105182

[Elwin]

Unfortunately people who make guns and people who carry them is a Venn diagram with a very small center section and a lot of space on either side of it, so yes, you have a lot of people carrying short barreled guns in longer holsters. I’d wager almost no one actually needs a pistol barrel to be under 4”, but manufacturers tend to think it matters a lot. So much so you have “carry” models of a pistol where only the barrel is shortened and the grip is the same…

I carry both 4” and 5” 1911s and I carry both in the same full length holsters. I’m also using foam pads cut from yoga blocks and attached with Velcro tape. That approach has worked for a long time for me but YMMV.

They’re also all JM 2.0 or 2.5 models. I prefer the wide range of adjustability you get pairing those holsters with DCC clips. The height of each clip can be adjusted down to the millimeter and then the grip rotation is adjustable by playing with the height of the block on the Modwing. If the holster is doing something you don’t want, there’s probably a way to fix it.

[mastiffkb]

I am a fan of JMCK and have bought my last 4-5 holsters from them.

I have found that the quick ship aiwb, no wings, work the best for me.

My options choices that work best are.

One size up muzzle length wise. A G48 for a G43, a VP9 for a VP9sk

1.75 pull the dot, you can adjust down to 1.5 but if you get the 1.5 you cannot make it longer.

Having used flat and angled pads on other holsters when I purchased the JMCK with the extra tuck feature, will never have one without it nor go back to pads. It is a tear dropped shape built into the holster that allows all the benefits of a pad but is easier to put the holster on, doesn’t stick to undergarments, very smooth and doesn’t create extra heat like pads do.

Hope this helps.

[entropy]

Good info here.

I started AWIB a few years back with a snub. Warmed up to it. In the past 6mo I’ve started carrying a G19 same way. What started as an “experiment” with a cheap Blackhawk ARC and MMT pillow has turned into my basic carry. I’ve had to “restuff” the pillow a few times as the fill seems to compress over time, especially when extended sitting is involved.

I’m interested in trying a JM for both the G19 and my HK USP. The description on the “George” states: is an appendix holster made for lean body types whose waist, chest and stomach are all on the same plane.

This IS NOT me. Lol. Using the Philster sail boat analogy, I have more superstructure above my waterline.

Perhaps I’m better off ordering two standard models...

[Jay585]

Why? Most of it is below the belt and behind your pants.

Let's look at it as if you're trying to pry a stump out of the ground.

You got your fulcrum point and a lever. In this example the wedge is the fulcrum point and holster length is the lever. If you have a big wedge and short holster, there's not much force to wedge the gun into your body. By the time you get the appropriate amount of wedge to actually press the gun into the body, you're printing below the belt. Longer holster needs less amount of wedge in order to press that grip into your stomach.

Did this part make sense to anyone? Sometimes I think I'm explaining something well, but it's actually garbage. Explaining things to kids will make you realize you're not as smart as you think you are. :p

[entropy]

Did this part make sense to anyone? Sometimes I think I'm explaining something well, but it's actually garbage. Explaining things to kids will make you realize you're not as smart as you think you are. :p


Makes sense to me.

Got a “C” in high school physics.

[blues]

Did this part make sense to anyone? Sometimes I think I'm explaining something well, but it's actually garbage. Explaining things to kids will make you realize you're not as smart as you think you are. :p

I think your and the other explanations all make sense. But those of us who are long time AIWB carriers already know from experience and need little further illustration.

I own several JMCK holsters and like them all.

An added benefit of the WC 2.0 and 2.5 over, say, the George or AIWB is that they start out with less bulge at the belt line, right off the bat. Also, I like the added stability that the wide belt attachments afford.

I still wear the George occasionally, but by far have gone with the two WC versions since receiving them.

I can get by with either G19 or G17 length for my G26.

[Jason M]

I think your and the other explanations all make sense. But those of us who are long time AIWB carriers already know from experience and need little further illustration.

I own several JMCK holsters and like them all.

An added benefit of the WC 2.0 and 2.5 over, say, the George or AIWB is that they start out with less bulge at the belt line, right off the bat. Also, I like the added stability that the wide belt attachments afford.

I still wear the George occasionally, but by far have gone with the two WC versions since receiving them.

I can get by with either G19 or G17 length for my G26.

Like blues, I use a 2.0 WC of the G19 persuasion. It is super stable and needs no wedge. The spacing between the DCC clips makes the difference for me. It routinely carries a 26,19, or a 45. I no longer own any 17s. It is worn mostly with a First Spear Line One belt or a Tenicor Zero.

[luckyman]

Did this part make sense to anyone? Sometimes I think I'm explaining something well, but it's actually garbage. Explaining things to kids will make you realize you're not as smart as you think you are. :p

My last physics class was 40 years ago, but I’m not sure this is correct. Your thinking is fine for force, but not for distance.

[HammerStriker]

Thanks everyone, this is all good info. Although, I must say that AIWB seems to have gotten way too complicated. After thinking about it I'm going to stick with IWB @ 4:00. I really don't want to put a small pistol in a large holster and add wedges, pillows, claws, wings, or anything else. Seems overly complicated and all the extras add to the bulk and weight of your carry rig.

Something is telling me this AIWB craze will pass and one day we will look back and laugh at how bulky these carry rigs had gotten. Shit there's people walking around with a tiny gun in a large holster plus a backup mag, light, red dot, and now wedges, pillows, and claws. Seems a bit much if you ask me.

I'll say the the industry is brilliant though, they always think of something new to get us spending our money.

[Jason M]

Thanks everyone, this is all good info. Although, I must say that AIWB seems to have gotten way too complicated. After thinking about it I'm going to stick with IWB @ 4:00. I really don't want to put a small pistol in a large holster and add wedges, pillows, claws, wings, or anything else. Seems overly complicated and all the extras add to the bulk and weight of your carry rig.

Something is telling me this AIWB craze will pass and one day we will look back and laugh at how bulky these carry rigs had gotten. Shit there's people walking around with a tiny gun in a large holster plus a backup mag, light, red dot, and now wedges, pillows, and claws. Seems a bit much if you ask me.

I'll say the the industry is brilliant though, they always think of something new to get us spending our money.

I think AIWB has outlived the label of "craze".

https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/a-historical-look-at-appendix-carry

[littlejerry]

OP:

You'll see a lot of variation in holster type for different body types when it comes to AIWB. Waist circumference, hip width, belly fat, shoulder/chest size all factor into concealability.

You may have a similar body type to me. 5'11", 165 lbs, 31-32" waist depending on brand of pants. Relatively narrow hips.

For me the JM Wing Claw 2.5 with DCC monobloc is the best answer.

[CSW]

3 AIWB holsters work for me:
5'8", 190, 36" waist.
JM AIWB for my Berettas, (92 compact and Centurion) using a MMT wedge, and PTD loops.
JM 2.0 for the Berettas, with DCC clips and the MMT pillow.
Tenicor Certum 3 for a 1911 Commander, with DCC clips and a MMT pillow.

99% of the time it's the Tenicor and the 1911. None of the holsters want to roll out, but also know OP, that it's going to take trial and error to get the best 'fit' for you.
As Blues said, the wide clips allow for real stability.

[Elwin]

Do what works for you, but don’t tell other people their stuff doesn’t actually work for them. Plenty of people, including some very knowledgeable instructors and other experts, have been using and designing and testing the rigs you’re knocking without trying for years. They may know something you don’t.

As for me, I’ll stop carrying a gun before I go back to carrying strongside IWB, and that’s after trying both, so I’d definitely say it’s not a craze.

[blues]

I think AIWB has outlived the label of "craze".

https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/a-historical-look-at-appendix-carry

Hell, I was carrying that way on the job back in the 80's without knowing it even had a name. It's only gotten better since then with the industry-wide upgrades in available gear.

I think I'll stick with this newfangle craze.

[entropy]

Which clips does everyone recommend?

I’m currently using something akin to a JMCK quick clip. Open to ideas I don’t know about on that.

How about the guard height? Present holster has none. Am I missing out on something?

Thanks

[Sig_Fiend]

Thanks everyone, this is all good info. Although, I must say that AIWB seems to have gotten way too complicated. After thinking about it I'm going to stick with IWB @ 4:00. I really don't want to put a small pistol in a large holster and add wedges, pillows, claws, wings, or anything else. Seems overly complicated and all the extras add to the bulk and weight of your carry rig.

Something is telling me this AIWB craze will pass and one day we will look back and laugh at how bulky these carry rigs had gotten. Shit there's people walking around with a tiny gun in a large holster plus a backup mag, light, red dot, and now wedges, pillows, and claws. Seems a bit much if you ask me.

I'll say the the industry is brilliant though, they always think of something new to get us spending our money.

I'd recommend trying the JMCK Wing Claw 2.5 (https://www.jmcustomkydex.com/p/AIWB-WC2-5.html). In your case, I believe the one you want is marked "S&W Shield/Shield Plus w/ 4" Barrel 9mm". It should have a slightly longer body for that improved fulcrum effect while still working for the 3.1" version.

With either the PTD loops or fixed soft loops (same basic thing really), they're mounted to the top of the holster and spaced farther apart than most other holsters in this class.
This is important in that it distributes the load over a wider area. IMO, it makes the holster more stable for carry, for the draw, and produces less girth in the holster.
The claw is highly effective at rotating the grip inward, taking care of at least one of the major areas that can print.

Another factor I see less talked about is belt rigidity. Maybe I'm weird but, with the WC 2.5, I've found the claw + wide-spaced loops is so effective, I can get away with a much flimsier belt than I normally would.
Instead of say a kydex-reinforced leather belt or other substantial leather gun belt, I find that even something like a cheapo 5.11 TDU nylon belt works well.
In some cases, this might even be a win in that you don't have to use such a rigid belt that it creates as large and unnatural of gaps fore or aft of the holster, and the belt can more easily conform.

Best part I've found is the WC 2.5 is so effective I can even carry as far back as 3:00. The claw works so well it actually carries nicely in that position and conceals more effectively than most other 3:00 holsters I've used.
This is worth considering if you're not sure about whether you'll like AIWB carry. A lot of other AIWB holsters are not really that flexible, IMO, and have a much smaller zone of efficacy.

[blues]

Which clips does everyone recommend?

I’m currently using something akin to a JMCK quick clip. Open to ideas I don’t know about on that.

How about the guard height? Present holster has none. Am I missing out on something?

Thanks

I like the mid-guard with JMCK. Doesn't get in the way of a draw, and doesn't interfere with bending if the gun is out of the holster. Others' mileage will vary.


These days all of my JMCK's are wearing either DCCs, (not Monoblocks), or fixed loops. The fixed print less than PTD and have less possibility of failure, however remote.

The only way to know is to try, imho.

[Elwin]

Which clips does everyone recommend?

I’m currently using something akin to a JMCK quick clip. Open to ideas I don’t know about on that.

How about the guard height? Present holster has none. Am I missing out on something?

Thanks

I love the standard DCC clips because they're so adjustable - I'm never stuck wishing there was a set of mounting holes in between the ones I have. They also disappear, whereas with other clips and loops I have the hardware printing even when the gun is hidden.

I find guard height to be firearm-dependent. For striker guns I settled on mid for similar reasons to Blues. For a 1911 I like full because I can mold it (or have Tony mold it) so that the guard prevents the safety from moving to "off" while holstered. I could imagine more guard could be good with slide-mounted decockers on the Beretta guns.

I like at least some guard because keeps my undershirt out of the holster when reholstering, and I index the muzzle on that flat surface provided by the guard before easing it into the holster mouth.

[HammerStriker]

Hell, I was carrying that way on the job back in the 80's without knowing it even had a name. It's only gotten better since then with the industry-wide upgrades in available gear.

I think I'll stick with this newfangle craze.



I know appendix carry has been around forever, however it was not very popular until relatively recently. I think it is in large part due to internet influencers pushing apendix holsters and other related product.

I've given Appendix carry a try with a cheap IWB BladeTech holster and a Glock 19. Def conceals better than 4:00, but the pistol points at my body when seated and isn't the most comfortable. I thought I'd give it another try with an AIWB specific holster from a quality manufacturer like JM Kydex. With that said, it is not worth it to me if I have to put my shield in a 4" holster and add a claw and pillow. Kind of defeats the purpose of having a small gun, doesn't it?

[blues]

I know appendix carry has been around forever, however it was not very popular until relatively recently. I think it is in large part due to internet influencers pushing apendix holsters and other related product.

I've given Appendix carry a try with a cheap IWB BladeTech holster and a Glock 19. Def conceals better than 4:00, but the pistol points at my body when seated and isn't the most comfortable. I thought I'd give it another try with an AIWB specific holster from a quality manufacturer like JM Kydex. With that said, it is not worth it to me if I have to put my shield in a 4" holster and add a claw and pillow. Kind of defeats the purpose of having a small gun, doesn't it?

In the end, all that matters is how it works for you. There is no better barometer.

That said, many of us feel that it is worth the additions. (And not everyone that carries AIWB needs a claw or a pillow. Sometimes I prefer both, sometimes not. Sometimes just a pad with no claw, or a claw with no pad.) Depends on the clothing and the holster. I don't ordinarily carry anything smaller than a G26 or a J frame.

We are not evangelists and will never try to tell you to carry in a manner that does not suit your needs.

[RJ]

Which clips does everyone recommend?

I’m currently using something akin to a JMCK quick clip. Open to ideas I don’t know about on that.

How about the guard height? Present holster has none. Am I missing out on something?

Thanks

I like the DCC clips. One seems to work best for me.

I tried a "no sweat guard" option on one JMCK order; as Tony explained, you can't put material back. Rubbed like the devil. From then onward, I specify "full guard". To date I've not trimmed any of them down.

[CSW]

Which clips does everyone recommend?

I’m currently using something akin to a JMCK quick clip. Open to ideas I don’t know about on that.

How about the guard height? Present holster has none. Am I missing out on something?

Thanks

On my JMCK 2.0, dcc clips, 1.5.
On the Tenicor, dcc clips, 1.5.
On the JMCK original AIWB, ptd loops. Tried the dcc monoblock clip, no bueno on that one.

[RJ]

In the end, all that matters is how it works for you. There is no better barometer.

That said, many of us feel that it is worth the additions. (And not everyone that carries AIWB needs a claw or a pillow. Sometimes I prefer both, sometimes not. Sometimes just a pad with no claw, or a claw with no pad.) Depends on the clothing and the holster. I don't ordinarily carry anything smaller than a G26 or a J frame.

We are not evangelists and will never try to tell you to carry in a manner that does not suit your needs.

What blues said.


I know appendix carry has been around forever, however it was not very popular until relatively recently. I think it is in large part due to internet influencers pushing apendix holsters and other related product.

I've given Appendix carry a try with a cheap IWB BladeTech holster and a Glock 19. Def conceals better than 4:00, but the pistol points at my body when seated and isn't the most comfortable. I thought I'd give it another try with an AIWB specific holster from a quality manufacturer like JM Kydex. With that said, it is not worth it to me if I have to put my shield in a 4" holster and add a claw and pillow. Kind of defeats the purpose of having a small gun, doesn't it?

Some people feel they don't want to wear Appendix because they are too fat. Some don't like it because "you'll shootcherdickoff...". Some don't want to put in the work required tailoring cant, height, tension, location wedge, claw/no claw, wing/no wing, clip vs. DCC vs. PTD, etc. etc. Some feel it's uncomfortable.

That's all ok.

If it doesn't work for you, no one is going to try and convince you otherwise.

[RJ]

Another factor I see less talked about is belt rigidity. Maybe I'm weird but, with the WC 2.5, I've found the claw + wide-spaced loops is so effective, I can get away with a much flimsier belt than I normally would.
Instead of say a kydex-reinforced leather belt or other substantial leather gun belt, I find that even something like a cheapo 5.11 TDU nylon belt works well.
In some cases, this might even be a win in that you don't have to use such a rigid belt that it creates as large and unnatural of gaps fore or aft of the holster, and the belt can more easily conform.


Same.

So much so that I've had the startling revelation over the past few years that the old saw about "you need a rigid gunbelt!" to be completely untrue. My MMT Specialist (I have, hmmm, three of them now) is about perfect. Flexible enough to flex with movement but rigid enough that the DCC clip firmly "locks" into place around it.

[Blades]

I know appendix carry has been around forever, however it was not very popular until relatively recently. I think it is in large part due to internet influencers pushing apendix holsters and other related product.

I've given Appendix carry a try with a cheap IWB BladeTech holster and a Glock 19. Def conceals better than 4:00, but the pistol points at my body when seated and isn't the most comfortable. I thought I'd give it another try with an AIWB specific holster from a quality manufacturer like JM Kydex. With that said, it is not worth it to me if I have to put my shield in a 4" holster and add a claw and pillow. Kind of defeats the purpose of having a small gun, doesn't it?


What blues said.


If it doesn't work for you, no one is going to try and convince you otherwise.


But based on the vast available knowledge(shared freely) of actual experts(and not keyboard "experts") on P-F you'll save yourself time, and money by listening to them if you decide to carry appendix. If you do change your method of carrying in the future come back and update us. If I had a JM Kydex holster for a Shield I'd let you borrow it to see if you liked AWIB with a purpose built holster.

[Sig_Fiend]

Same.

So much so that I've had the startling revelation over the past few years that the old saw about "you need a rigid gunbelt!" to be completely untrue. My MMT Specialist (I have, hmmm, three of them now) is about perfect. Flexible enough to flex with movement but rigid enough that the DCC clip firmly "locks" into place around it.

+1 for MMT (https://www.mastermindtactics.com/). Great belts.

The extreme end of the rigidity spectrum is the Ted Blocker H Belt (https://tedblockerholsters.com/collections/belts/products/belt-h), and I think there are a few others out there like it. Steel-lined. It's like wearing a leather-wrapped slim jim around your waist, and is exactly as ridiculous as that sounds. :cool:

Don't take that the wrong way. He builds good stuff, and that may work amazing for some uses. Doesn't work at all for me. I carry at 3:00 with a straight drop. That particular belt turns the gun into a mailbox flag when twisting or bending at the waist. ;)

In my case, it sits in the holster "crate" (where we're going, we don't need no stinking holster box! ;)). The MMT Specialist does everything I need in a belt.

[Elwin]

I think it is in large part due to internet influencers pushing apendix holsters and other related product.

With that said, it is not worth it to me if I have to put my shield in a 4" holster and add a claw and pillow. Kind of defeats the purpose of having a small gun, doesn't it?

The first sentence here is just wrong. If you're interested in the history of modern AIWB use, you should read some of Todd L. Green's writings on the subject. There is more going on here than a fad - there is a lot of work being put in by holster makers and others to develop gear optimized for this application. Again, if it's not for you, that's fine. But you can decide it's not for you without dismissing it (and the experiences of those whose opinions you asked for in the first place) as the result of marketing hype and people (whose opinions you asked for) being stupid enough to fall for marketing hype. Don't ask for input from people only to turn around and insult their intelligence when they take the time to give it and it's not what you wanted or expected to hear.

As for barrel length, what advantage does a 3" barrel offer you that you are so worried about losing by putting it in a longer holster, if that is in fact an advantage to concealment and/or comfort in your case?

[HammerStriker]

The first sentence here is just wrong. If you're interested in the history of modern AIWB use, you should read some of Todd L. Green's writings on the subject. There is more going on here than a fad - there is a lot of work being put in by holster makers and others to develop gear optimized for this application. Again, if it's not for you, that's fine. But you can decide it's not for you without dismissing it (and the experiences of those whose opinions you asked for in the first place) as the result of marketing hype and people (whose opinions you asked for) being stupid enough to fall for marketing hype. Don't ask for input from people only to turn around and insult their intelligence when they take the time to give it and it's not what you wanted or expected to hear.

As for barrel length, what advantage does a 3" barrel offer you that you are so worried about losing by putting it in a longer holster, if that is in fact an advantage to concealment and/or comfort in your case?

I'm not sure what triggered you. I am listening here. It seems like AIWB carry requires a bunch or experimentation and trail/error to get it to work. I was already on the fence about it in the first place, but thought I'd give it a try because of all the "experts" raving about it. AIWB has been around forever, how come everyone is raving about it in the last 5 years?

Honestly, I feel more comfortable with the pistol not pointing at my junk anyhow, which is why I was on the fence in the first place. I know this upsets people, but at the same time there was a DA/SA resurgence and tao industries striker whatever gizmo so that people could feel safer about pointing a gun at their junk.

Your question about what I'm losing by going with a 4" holster is silly. Obviously I purchase a shield because I want a small gun for limiting printing, low weight, and maximum concealment. Adding inches to the gun or holster has an impact on weight and size. How come physics only applies when arguing for AIWB?

With all do respect to the late Todd Green, he was not infallible and everyone has their own biases--including myself. There is something called the "Appeal to Authority Fallacy".

[Elwin]

I'm not sure what triggered you. I am listening here. It seems like AIWB carry requires a bunch or experimentation and trail/error to get it to work. I was already on the fence about it in the first place, but thought I'd give it a try because of all the "experts" raving about it. AIWB has been around forever, how come everyone is raving about it in the last 5 years?

Honestly, I feel more comfortable with the pistol not pointing at my junk anyhow, which is why I was on the fence in the first place. I know this upsets people, but at the same time there was a DA/SA resurgence and tao industries striker whatever gizmo so that people could feel safer about pointing a gun at their junk.

Your question about what I'm losing by going with a 4" holster is silly. Obviously I purchase a shield because I want a small gun for limiting printing, low weight, and maximum concealment. adding inches to the gun or holster has an impact on weight and size.

I'm not "triggered" by anyone deciding AIWB isn't for them. The issue is that in the process of deciding it's not for you, you're writing it off as not really for anyone. Your comments about "fads" and "marketing by influencers" are crossing that line. I am attempting, as civilly as I can, to point out that you're taking the generous and experienced people responding in this thread (i.e.everyone but me) as well as world class instructors and throwing them all under the bus of "just falling for marketing hype" so you can feel better about your decisions. You don't need to do that - just make your decisions without the extra step of implying that people who make different ones don't know what they're doing.

[blues]

It seems silly to engage in a long conversation about why you shouldn't AIWB.

Just don't do it.

Finis.

[HammerStriker]

I'm not "triggered" by anyone deciding AIWB isn't for them. The issue is that in the process of deciding it's not for you, you're writing it off as not really for anyone. Your comments about "fads" and "marketing by influencers" are crossing that line. I am attempting, as civilly as I can, to point out that you're taking the generous and experienced people responding in this thread (i.e.everyone but me) as well as world class instructors and throwing them all under the bus of "just falling for marketing hype" so you can feel better about your decisions. You don't need to do that - just make your decisions without the extra step of implying that people who make different ones don't know what they're doing.

I don't think I used the word "fad", I called it a craze. When every video on YouTube is about appendix carry and how great it is, what do you call that? Almost all holster manufactures are cranking out new AIWB holsters and everyone is trying it. To pretend that marketing hype doesn't work or only works on "stupid" people is silly. I guess you think all the Fortune 500 corporations that spend huge bucks on social media advertising and marketing are not as smart as you? Alphabet & Meta, man those guys are stupid...social media marketing and advertising? HA, no way it works on anyone but the stupid! C'mon man, we're all susceptible to hype, marketing, and advertising. Especially those of us who hang out on sites dedicated to enthusiasts, whether it be pistols, watches, knives, etc.

[HammerStriker]

It seems silly to engage in a long conversation about why you shouldn't AIWB.

Just don't do it.

Finis.

that's what I've decided. thank you for the feedback. I really didn't mean to offend anyone.

[WobblyPossum]

I only want to address the timeframe when appendix carry started to become more popular with the mainstream shooting community. I was reading Todd Green’s blog pistol-training.com during college starting in the 2008-2009 timeframe. He was already carrying AIWB. Shortly after that was around the time he started working with Custom Carry Concepts on AIWB specific holsters like the Looper. Things kicked off from there with additional manufacturers, both kydex and leather. Mainstream popularity really started increasing about 15 years ago, not 5. The first purpose built AIWB holster that I remember actually being mainstream and not just popular with enthusiasts was the Raven Concealment Eidolon which I believe was released in 2015. We could also go waaaaaay further back with the original Milt Sparks Summer Special being designed as a straight-drop AIWB holster.

[Up1911Fan]

I only want to address the timeframe when appendix carry started to become more popular with the mainstream shooting community. I was reading Todd Green’s blog pistol-training.com during college starting in the 2008-2009 timeframe. He was already carrying AIWB. Shortly after that was around the time he started working with Custom Carry Concepts on AIWB specific holsters like the Looper. Things kicked off from there with additional manufacturers, both kydex and leather. Mainstream popularity really started increasing about 15 years ago, not 5. The first purpose built AIWB holster that I remember actually being mainstream and not just popular with enthusiasts was the Raven Concealment Eidolon which I believe was released in 2015. We could also go waaaaaay further back with the original Milt Sparks Summer Special being designed as a straight-drop AIWB holster.

I wish Todd's blog was still up.

[EVP]

I wish Todd's blog was still up.

It is!

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Regarding your objection of having to buy a "bigger" holster making the Shield pointless, I think you are looking at it upside down. With dialed in AIWB you can conceal an M&P compact and it will print the same or less than a Shield carried at 4:00. On top of that you have a faster draw, better retention of the weapon, and other benefits.
AIWB allows most people to carry a gun that is much closer to the gun they actually spend time practicing with, which in and of itself is a huge benefit.
If none of the advantages of carrying a bigger gun appeal to you, you can also just AIWB the shield. Youll still get way better concealability, a faster draw, etc. IME its MUCH more comfy as well, though yes it did take some experimentation and adaptation to get there for me.

Only you can decide if the advantages are worth the downsides: $$ on holsters and belts, the effort of doing some experimenting, and the low odds but high stakes possibility of killing yourself while reholstering.

[MountainRaven]

Not everyone can carry a bigger gun AIWB. Some people have to choose a smaller gun if they want to go AIWB.

(I say this as someone who finally got AIWB to work for him by carrying a 2019 still-STI Staccato P with an RMR, an X300U-B, and the "slim" extended magwell that graced the original Staccato Ps in a PHLster Floodlight.)

[HammerStriker]

I only want to address the timeframe when appendix carry started to become more popular with the mainstream shooting community. I was reading Todd Green’s blog pistol-training.com during college starting in the 2008-2009 timeframe. He was already carrying AIWB. Shortly after that was around the time he started working with Custom Carry Concepts on AIWB specific holsters like the Looper. Things kicked off from there with additional manufacturers, both kydex and leather. Mainstream popularity really started increasing about 15 years ago, not 5. The first purpose built AIWB holster that I remember actually being mainstream and not just popular with enthusiasts was the Raven Concealment Eidolon which I believe was released in 2015. We could also go waaaaaay further back with the original Milt Sparks Summer Special being designed as a straight-drop AIWB holster.

you could go way back further but up until about 5-10 yrs about the majority carried IWB strong side. It used to be hard to find a "good" AIWB holster for many guns, now every manufacture makes more AIWB holsters than anything else.

[HammerStriker]

Regarding your objection of having to buy a "bigger" holster making the Shield pointless, I think you are looking at it upside down. With dialed in AIWB you can conceal an M&P compact and it will print the same or less than a Shield carried at 4:00. On top of that you have a faster draw, better retention of the weapon, and other benefits.
AIWB allows most people to carry a gun that is much closer to the gun they actually spend time practicing with, which in and of itself is a huge benefit.
If none of the advantages of carrying a bigger gun appeal to you, you can also just AIWB the shield. Youll still get way better concealability, a faster draw, etc. IME its MUCH more comfy as well, though yes it did take some experimentation and adaptation to get there for me.

Only you can decide if the advantages are worth the downsides: $$ on holsters and belts, the effort of doing some experimenting, and the low odds but high stakes possibility of killing yourself while reholstering.

I ordered some Tenicor certum holsters along with the JM kydex IWB 3 holster. The Tenior holsters can play double duty, both AIWB and strong side carry. This way I can try both out. Thanks for the post.

[WobblyPossum]

The Certum 3 is my favorite Tenicor holster. I like it much better than the Velo 4. I think you’ll like it. Don’t be afraid to play around with ride height and the height of that bump to the side of the clips for grip tuck. You might find that small variations make major differences in comfort and concealment.

[CSW]

The Certum 3 is my favorite Tenicor holster. I like it much better than the Velo 4. I think you’ll like it. Don’t be afraid to play around with ride height and the height of that bump to the side of the clips for grip tuck. You might find that small variations make major differences in comfort and concealment.

My experience to a T.
Took about 2 weeks to truly tweek it to the best comfort.

[MDFA]

Which clips does everyone recommend?

I’m currently using something akin to a JMCK quick clip. Open to ideas I don’t know about on that.

How about the guard height?
Thanks

I use DCC Monoblock clips with my JMCK Holsters and a Full Guard. You can always trim it down if you don't like it.

[HammerStriker]

So I received the Tenicor Certum holsters and do like them very much. Great holster.

Maybe I'm doing things wrong here, but my Glock 19 conceals MUCH better at 4:00 than 12:00 or 1:00 position. I wear fitted clothes. Nothing tight, but not baggy either. Good stiff leather belt and largest camming bar in the appendix position. With one of my regular t-shirts the printing is terrible. Even with a loose fitting shirt there is visible printing in the appendix position. The camming bar does a nice job tucking the butt of the gun into my body, but you can see this large bulge and I really don't think a wedge would help as the printing is at the belt line. G19 is a thick double stack and I am a thinner guy.

Maybe it is just me, but in the 4:00 position my G19 disappears. Wife could not even tell where I was carrying when I had it in the 4:00 position. Maybe its the natural curvature of my body, does seem to tuck into that spot nicely.

Anyone else feel IWB 4:00 conceals better than AIWB for them?

Still waiting on the "Quick Ship" JM Custom Kydex IWB 3.

[littlejerry]

If I'm standing still then an IWB holster can conceal well.

The second I bend over, twist, pick up something, etc. it all goes to shit.

Most people prefer a thinner belt for AIWB. Thick belts(especially leather with a traditional buckle) create a large bulge up front. I'm a fan of the Mastermind belts or Tenicor.
ETA: pics of carrying with a thin nylon belt. I'll also add that belt mounts matter. I much prefer slim steel clips vs. PTD loops.
105511105512

[Hstanton1]

AIWB is flat out more complicated than strong side is. That’s not a bad thing, it’s just a different ball game and I think that’s the cause of the issues you’re running into. You’re taking what works well strong side (short holsters/stiff belts) and trying to translate those to AIWB.

I’ll say that the certum is not my favorite AIWB holster, and doesn’t conceal particularly well for me in that position. However, having a thin belt (tenicor zero) a g17 length holster, and an appropriately sized and shaped muzzle wedge make that holster conceal better than a g19 length holster with a stiff belt and no pad. If strong side is working well for you there’s no real reason to switch, but if you are interested in making AIWB work for you, you’ll probably need to give a longer holster and a muzzle wedge a try.

Jon Hauptman of PHLster has compared dialing AIWB carry in to fitting a prosthetic, and that’s a good comparison. If that’s not a level of trial and error that you are interested in, and you get an acceptable level of concealment from strong side, just keep carrying strong side.

[HammerStriker]

If I'm standing still then an IWB holster can conceal well.

The second I bend over, twist, pick up something, etc. it all goes to shit.

Most people prefer a thinner belt for AIWB. Thick belts(especially leather with a traditional buckle) create a large bulge up front. I'm a fan of the Mastermind belts or Tenicor.
ETA: pics of carrying with a thin nylon belt. I'll also add that belt mounts matter. I much prefer slim steel clips vs. PTD loops.


I think you're spot on with the belt, I need a thinner belt with less of a buckle.

[Tony Mayer]

So I received the Tenicor Certum holsters and do like them very much. Great holster.

Maybe I'm doing things wrong here, but my Glock 19 conceals MUCH better at 4:00 than 12:00 or 1:00 position. I wear fitted clothes. Nothing tight, but not baggy either. Good stiff leather belt and largest camming bar in the appendix position. With one of my regular t-shirts the printing is terrible. Even with a loose fitting shirt there is visible printing in the appendix position. The camming bar does a nice job tucking the butt of the gun into my body, but you can see this large bulge and I really don't think a wedge would help as the printing is at the belt line. G19 is a thick double stack and I am a thinner guy.

Maybe it is just me, but in the 4:00 position my G19 disappears. Wife could not even tell where I was carrying when I had it in the 4:00 position. Maybe its the natural curvature of my body, does seem to tuck into that spot nicely.

Anyone else feel IWB 4:00 conceals better than AIWB for them?

Still waiting on the "Quick Ship" JM Custom Kydex IWB 3.

Our "Quick Ship" orders ship within a 5-10 business day window per the stated lead times in red at the top of the home page.

[03RN]

4" mountain gun in a jmcustom aiwb
105581

[Shorikid]

AIWB is flat out more complicated than strong side is. That’s not a bad thing, it’s just a different ball game and I think that’s the cause of the issues you’re running into. You’re taking what works well strong side (short holsters/stiff belts) and trying to translate those to AIWB.

I’ll say that the certum is not my favorite AIWB holster, and doesn’t conceal particularly well for me in that position. However, having a thin belt (tenicor zero) a g17 length holster, and an appropriately sized and shaped muzzle wedge make that holster conceal better than a g19 length holster with a stiff belt and no pad. If strong side is working well for you there’s no real reason to switch, but if you are interested in making AIWB work for you, you’ll probably need to give a longer holster and a muzzle wedge a try.

Jon Hauptman of PHLster has compared dialing AIWB carry in to fitting a prosthetic, and that’s a good comparison. If that’s not a level of trial and error that you are interested in, and you get an acceptable level of concealment from strong side, just keep carrying strong side.JMCK wing claw 2.5 is my go to holster. I pair it with a Volund Gear works Atlas G hook belt. With that set up I can carry a government model, all steel 1911 under a tee shirt with minimal printing. And do it relatively comfortably. I'm 5'9" and about 180lbs.

Claw combined with a wedge and the right tension on a thinner belt works really well for me. I don't wear the gun at 12:00, closer to 2:00 in the pocket/dip at the front of the hip. Fiddling with the belt tension on the belt can make a huge difference in comfort and printing.

Sent from my SM-A536U1 using Tapatalk

[RhinoJM]

Which clips does everyone recommend?

I’m currently using something akin to a JMCK quick clip. Open to ideas I don’t know about on that.

How about the guard height? Present holster has none. Am I missing out on something?

Thanks

I got the mid guard on my JMCK AIWB 2.0 (G17-length holster for G19).
I ended up cutting off the guard.

In classes, whenever I'd slightly bend my torso w/ gun unholstered, I'd seppuku myself.
The guard, in my opinion, serves NO purpose in terms of comfort, cleanliness, concealment, etc.

[sharps54]

I got the mid guard on my JMCK AIWB 2.0 (G17-length holster for G19).
I ended up cutting off the guard.

In classes, whenever I'd slightly bend my torso w/ gun unholstered, I'd seppuku myself.
The guard, in my opinion, serves NO purpose in terms of comfort, cleanliness, concealment, etc.

I find the guards help in safely reholstering if you have a gut, if you don’t suffer from “done lap” disease I could see it being less beneficial.

[vcdgrips]

I am most recently of two minds re guards. Slight rant follows YMMV greatly. I say this all as somebody who started AIWB with a g34/35 in 2008 or 2009.

One one hand- the higher the better as it protects the garment below it. This make sense to me when I am in dress shirt and tie mode and my cover garment is a sportscoat/suit jacket. Pre COVID, this was daily except Fridays during the summer.

OTOH, I have cracked three guards in the last few years because:

1. At times, I have a bit of done lap given my weight fluctuations 199 v 204 v 209

2. I have a bad habit of after checking my weapon at the door so to speak, leaving my holster on and putting undue stress on the guard as I move about over the course of the day in a secured environment.

3. Kydex does what kydex does which is perform well right until it starts to crack.

4. As such I sent out an all call for leather options and then found something that will work in the holster box (thx DEG) all the while cycling thru a MMT, Graith and Shaggy Kydex.


If I were buying from JM today-I suspect that I am enough of a preserve the shirt guy that I would buy a full guard and just try to remember to take off the holster when empty and accept that cracking guards are simply the cost of doing business.

Again, this is a very YMMV arena and I am likely being a bit of a priss as I have an inordinate number of white and light blue dress shirts that do not shed grease/lubricant stains very well nor are particularly abrasion resistant.

[G19Fan]

Thanks everyone, this is all good info. Although, I must say that AIWB seems to have gotten way too complicated. After thinking about it I'm going to stick with IWB @ 4:00. I really don't want to put a small pistol in a large holster and add wedges, pillows, claws, wings, or anything else. Seems overly complicated and all the extras add to the bulk and weight of your carry rig.

Something is telling me this AIWB craze will pass and one day we will look back and laugh at how bulky these carry rigs had gotten. Shit there's people walking around with a tiny gun in a large holster plus a backup mag, light, red dot, and now wedges, pillows, and claws. Seems a bit much if you ask me.

I'll say the the industry is brilliant though, they always think of something new to get us spending our money.

Draw speed alone from aiwb makes it worthwhile for squared away users. Way passed the craze stage. If anything you have a greater chance of iwb 4 o clock go away long term imo (say next 20 years).

I would not carry a gun if I had to carry iwb 4 o clock

[G19Fan]

I know appendix carry has been around forever, however it was not very popular until relatively recently. I think it is in large part due to internet influencers pushing apendix holsters and other related product.

I've given Appendix carry a try with a cheap IWB BladeTech holster and a Glock 19. Def conceals better than 4:00, but the pistol points at my body when seated and isn't the most comfortable. I thought I'd give it another try with an AIWB specific holster from a quality manufacturer like JM Kydex. With that said, it is not worth it to me if I have to put my shield in a 4" holster and add a claw and pillow. Kind of defeats the purpose of having a small gun, doesn't it?

What is your cold 4 o clock draw to first shot at say 5 yards (into black of a b8 on demand from concealment).I am generally around 1.33 from appendix and imo I am not particularly fast. This is the primary benefit of aiwb. Also amazing for npe.

Aiwb is great for grappling and gun control.

Definitely isn't for everyone. Some don't want point a gun a femoral or their junk. Some are too fat. Some just find it uncomfortable.

[sharps54]

What is your cold 4 o clock draw to first shot at say 5 yards (into black of a b8 on demand from concealment).I am generally around 1.33 from appendix and imo I am not particularly fast. This is the primary benefit of aiwb. Also amazing for npe.

Aiwb is great for grappling and gun control.

Definitely isn't for everyone. Some don't want point a gun a femoral or their junk. Some are too fat. Some just find it uncomfortable.

It’s also great from the seated position and the ability to “look” the gun into the holster on the range, compared to say 4 o’clock, is a big deal to me with striker fired pistols.

[G19Fan]

It’s also great from the seated position and the ability to “look” the gun into the holster on the range, compared to say 4 o’clock, is a big deal to me with striker fired pistols.

Very true

[Spartan1980]

2. I have a bad habit of after checking my weapon at the door so to speak, leaving my holster on and putting undue stress on the guard as I move about over the course of the day in a secured environment.



I suspect this is your issue. I've put serious stress on all my kydex AIWB holsters with my substantial dunlap and have yet to break one in 10 years now. However that's mostly stress on the clips that I seem to gravitate to. I wore them daily until only recently as I'm stuck at home for far longer periods now, but if I leave the house I'm wearing one. I only run Keepers and JMC and have just added a Dark Star but haven't really put it in carry rotation as of yet due to RDO experience, or rather the lack thereof. I think your leather option will wear out too but in perhaps a far less dramatic way. I'd bet if you pull the holster with the gun in it and check that in secured environments, you'll get far better life from them.

[WobblyPossum]

That’s my guess too. I’ve only ever broken one kydex holster in almost a decade of using them. I almost never have the holster on without the gun in it with AIWB because I know any bending or rotation would put a lot of stress in the sweat guard.

[vcdgrips]

Great idea re keeping the weapon and holster together AND CHECKING THEM AS A PACKAGE.

[CSW]

Big thanks to @tonymayer, this 2.0 arrived today.
Fits the new to me/back from LTT perfectly.

111786

[Archer1440]

Great idea re keeping the weapon and holster together AND CHECKING THEM AS A PACKAGE.

For administrative purposes my AIWB striker gun usually comes out- and goes in- as a package. DCC clips and a proper belt make this reasonably effortless.

As careful and ‘reluctant’ as I am when reholstering, for administrative handling I feel this method helps further reduce the small risk associated with AIWB.

[Dog Guy]

Regarding the wing on a Wing Claw 2.0 or 2.5 forcing the butt in to minimize printing: when using a red dot (EPS on a G19.3) does the wing have a reciprocal effect of forcing the top of the sight out, thus causing a printing problem in a different spot? Or is the hole spacing wide enough that the gun doesn't sort of pivot around the slide?

[CSW]

The trijicon RM04 does in fact get pushed out, but only to the point of the corner of housing even with the back of the belt.
I've got a bit of middle aged spread at 60, so there that.

[APS-PF]

Regarding the wing on a Wing Claw 2.0 or 2.5 forcing the butt in to minimize printing: when using a red dot (EPS on a G19.3) does the wing have a reciprocal effect of forcing the top of the sight out, thus causing a printing problem in a different spot? Or is the hole spacing wide enough that the gun doesn't sort of pivot around the slide?

Trying out different options on my G26.5MOS, an EPS or EPS carry will poke out but an SCS will not.

[Dog Guy]

Trying out different options on my G26.5MOS, an EPS or EPS carry will poke out but an SCS will not.

Interesting. Any thoughts on why? The dimensions and shape are pretty similar although not exact.

[APS-PF]

Interesting. Any thoughts on why? The dimensions and shape are pretty similar although not exact.

I think it's just that the rear edge of the EPS is farther back than the SCS plus the added height of the DPP mount. The SCS ends up in line with the bulge of the DCC clips on the holster but the EPS goes passed that. I have the tallest wing that came with the holster installed.