Shithole Cities

[Clusterfrack]

Rant about cities that are shitholes.

No politics, please (or I’ll have to move this thread behind the site members paywall).

[Clusterfrack]

Las Vegas is a shithole. Every street downtown smells like piss, tweakers are stumbling around like zombies, and it’s impossible to walk without getting hassled by con men/women. And this was before Noon on a weekday.

[blues]

Wouldn't it be easier to just list the cities which aren't? (Assuming, of course, that such unicorns exist.)

[Clusterfrack]

Wouldn't it be easier to just list the cities which aren't? (Assuming, of course, that such unicorns exist.)

Hmm. Salt Lake City, Boise, Bozeman…

[Totem Polar]

Rant about cities that are shitholes.

No politics, please (or I’ll have to move this thread behind the site members paywall).

Parts of Portland. Parts of Seattle. Parts of San Francisco. Parts of Spokane. All those cities have nice parts too. I’m sure I’m missing, well… a majority of urban centers. ;)

But you asked for a rant. One of the alluring parts of motorcycling is passing through your environment, as opposed to the rolled-up-windows car procedure of passing by your environment. Which is great fun on a twisty mountain road, a scenic historic neighborhood, or through rolling farmland hills on secondary highways. Not so much while stopped at red light, looking around at the environment—which includes several odd, sunburnt guys on the sidewalks with their pants falling down; people on all 4 corners having arm-flailing arguments with themselves; multiple shirtless young men with teardrop tattoos on their faces, riding DWI bikes the wrong way through 3 lanes of stopped traffic, and; a grey old street lady dropping a deuce/taking a leak/whatever in the grass median on the side street across from the stop n rob.

Something about that overly-long 90 seconds at the light really took some of the magic out of being on 2 wheels, with nowhere to be for an afternoon.

:)

[mtnbkr]

Las Vegas is a shithole. Every street downtown smells like piss, tweakers are stumbling around like zombies, and it’s impossible to walk without getting hassled by con men/women. And this was before Noon on a weekday.

I went to LV for the first time last summer as the last stop in our Southwest tour (we all wanted to see Hoover Dam and decided to fly out of LV). We were there for a bit more than 12hrs (flew out the following morning). It was a total shithole just like you describe. Been once, won't be going back.

Chris

[HeavyDuty]

Parts of most large cities, sometimes the majority.

My personal complaint is with smaller cities that are total shitholes. The most recent one added to my list is Killeen, TX. If there’s a good or even mediocre part, I haven’t found it.

[Tuefelhunden]

I went to LV for the first time last summer as the last stop in our Southwest tour (we all wanted to see Hoover Dam and decided to fly out of LV). We were there for a bit more than 12hrs (flew out the following morning). It was a total shithole just like you describe. Been once, won't be going back.

Chris

Agreed. I have to go there occasionally for business and in most of the nicer casino hotels it's fine but as soon as you leave the property and hit the strip it's pretty third world and the smell is always memorable. See lots of people with their kids in tow. I guess it's educational?

Still I've gotta think SF is a top contender.

[randyho]

My personal complaint is with smaller cities that are total shitholes.
Reading PA is one of the bleaker places I've ever been through.

More local to me are the parts of Annapolis that are absolute garbage. And if you ever feel the need to experience a mid-size city's garbage factor, drive the Wire Tour (https://wikitravel.org/en/The_Wire_Tour). Highly recommended for anyone who hasn't experienced a city that sucks the life out of the rest of a state.

[cheby]

With all due respect, this thread is pointless without talking about why those cities are shithole. What is the point of talking about it without analyzing policies that led to it? Those cities did not become so bad by accident. Just move this thread behind the site members paywall now.

[Colt191145lover]

Being raised a country boy I thought they all were , along with 90% of towns . But I'm probably just biased ;)

[Kanye Wyoming]

Smaller city shitholes in my neck of the woods:

Reading, PA. Total shithole.

Harrisburg, PA. State capital and mega shithole.

Newark, NJ. Need I say more? Except there are a few ethnic neighborhoods that are more or less safe and have some kickass restaurants.

Trenton, NJ. Just don’t.

Atlantic City, NJ. Scary, with a nice ocean breeze.

On the other side of the ledger, Pittsburgh is really nice. Bethlehem is charming. Easton used to be a real shithole but has been on the upswing over the past several years.

[GlockenSpiel]

Reading PA is one of the bleaker places I've ever been through.

More local to me are the parts of Annapolis that are absolute garbage. And if you ever feel the need to experience a mid-size city's garbage factor, drive the Wire Tour (https://wikitravel.org/en/The_Wire_Tour). Highly recommended for anyone who hasn't experienced a city that sucks the life out of the rest of a state.

Apparently I need to get an LTT 92 to prepare for this tour...

[mmc45414]

Apparently I need to get an LTT 92 to prepare for this tour...The problem for me there would be no reciprocity.

LV falls into my category with NOLA and Shanghai:
1) Been There
2) Would Go Back Tomorrow, If I NEEDED To
3) DGAF If I Never Go Back

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[medmo]

Phoenix, AZ and most of the surrounding areas. No matter the affluence of the surrounding neighborhood, there are packs of zombies inhabiting shopping centers and QT gas stations. It really is a sad sight, the complete waste of humanity, because of drugs.

[medmo]

Parts of most large cities, sometimes the majority.

My personal complaint is with smaller cities that are total shitholes. The most recent one added to my list is Killeen, TX. If there’s a good or even mediocre part, I haven’t found it.

Agreed, it's a relief once you cross into the base.

[0ddl0t]

Wouldn't it be easier to just list the cities which aren't? (Assuming, of course, that such unicorns exist.)


Hmm. Salt Lake City, Boise, Bozeman…

I don't know - I think Bozeman is a starting to become a seasonal shithole. Thank god for hard winters...

[SecondsCount]

Albuquerque, NM

Parts of Chicago. Some parts are really nice and others not so much. I really enjoyed the Museum of Science and Industry when I was there last time, then turned on the news back at the hotel and some was shot 2 blocks away that day.

[WDR]

Salt Lake City, Boise

Salt Lake certainly has some shithole spots. A few years ago, they ran most of the riffraff out of the city parks and downtown areas in a police operation my wife lovingly refers to as Operation Leafblower. They basically pushed the vagrants and druggies into other parts of the city and suburbs, and into other nearby cities. They didn't really solve the problems. They did arrest and/or offer drug treatment programs to quite a few of the people at that time.

All in all, SLC is not nearly as bad as it could be, and the people still generally support the police and enforcement of law.

Boise is a pretty nice "big" city, but it's also gone downhill in spots, and has its own bad areas. Their current mayor is... problematic. I will say downtown Boise doesn't give me the same anxiety as SLC does, but that may be a case of ignorance on my part. I'm far more familiar with SLC.

I would love to visit Seattle again, but I get the impression that the last ten years have seen it go downhill pretty severely. It's been that long since I visited, and my wife keeps bugging me to make a trip up there to visit some of her extended family (they are mostly living across the Sound, near Bremerton).

The last time I passed through Portland, I was ... less than compliant with their laws. Zero desire to go there again. Shithole 100% in my eyes. I do wish Oregon would unfuck their CCW reciprocity, so I could be legal in their state. (Hopefully that doesnt stray too close to politics) If they did, I'd love to visit other areas of Oregon, and I have family near Medford.

[randyho]

Apparently I need to get an LTT 92 to prepare for this tour...
We seriously considered a rental car.

[Navin Johnson]

To answer the above question why cities are shit holes in every case it’s the exact same thing maybe just done a little bit different way sometimes

If you’re not from a larger metropolis, every larger metropolis will be a shit hole in your opinion (and likely correctly so)

I don’t think there’s a major city that doesn’t have a shitty part…. what’s sad is how some of those smaller cities let themselves become shit holes

[feudist]

Birmingham, Alabama.
Extremely high reported property crime. Reporting is very manipulated(downward) by the admin, and the local businesses, media and chamber of commerce cheer leads for the deception.
Ridiculous levels of violent crime...hugely underplayed unless it involves click-worthy subject matter. You know...
An incredibly enabling Juvenile court system, simultaneously overwhelmed and contributory, with beyond lunatic leftist judges who verge on co-conspiracy, and are 100% down for the most hug-a-thug policies and rulings you can't even imagine. Once they "graduate" to the big boy jail, the older, grown inmates live in abject fear of the mindlessly hysterical and utterly pointless violence the kids are capable of.

The Criminal courts are fecally impacted, with every detention facility in the state, from prisons to the local hoosegows so overcrowded(and under consent decree) from a laughably large career criminal population that nothing short of Biblical plague or someone going through with a flamethrower will ever make enough of a splash to wipe up. So the ball rolls downhill from the courts to the district attorney to the screening prosecutors to the detectives to drop every case possible for any reason imaginable...sometimes just by magicking them away. Burglary is trespassing, attempted murder is felony assault pled down to misdemeanor. Sentence suspended, concurrent, split, abeyed, diverted("He smokes weed, your honor, he needs rehab...")
Witness fails to show after the 15th postponement? Toss the case. Detective 15 minutes late? Toss the case. Defendants first time committing this exact crime? Toss.

Two decades plus of "homeless" shite infesting the downtown business areas, parks and all the libraries(you risk cholera, diphtheria, scabies and lice going to the downtown library. Or being assaulted by a "teen" left there as after-school daycare). They were cleared out for the World Games, though. Which was a financial disaster that resembled the 2008 crisis mixed with the withdrawal from Afghanistan. ( it did result in a salutary incident though. A trio of German athletes were jumped by a quintuple set of the Usual Suspects.
Only the timely arrival of West Precinct officers saved the yutes from physical mutilation, though not utter humiliation. To the vast amusement of the coppers.

25 plus years of criminally mismanaged infrastructure, from water to sewage to simple road maintenance.
It's so despised by literally everyone that every city around it is willing to cut off their own nose for spite, merely to oppose or inconvenience it. No one who works for it wants to live there, and the population has shrunk so much so fast that it's now the second largest city in the state, behind Huntsville...which not so long ago was a sleepy town known for the NASA rocket center and nothing else. Soon, it'll be third.
The only reason it exists as a corporate entity is the UAB hospital system. Absent that(and the UAB Emergency Room, which alone keeps the homicide rate under that of Juarez) it would be a burned out post-apocalyptic wasteland in a decade. The parts that already aren't, that is.

In the 90s, Mayor-For-Life Arrington led a city that was consistently placed in the nation's top 10 for per-capita homicides...so he opened a chain of funeral parlors in the Hood.
He was accused of many things, but missing an opportunity wasn't one.

[Totem Polar]

feudist, now that was the rant this thread needs.

:D

[randyho]

In the 90s, Mayor-For-Life Arrington led a city that was consistently placed in the nation's top 10 for per-capita homicides...so he opened a chain of funeral parlors in the Hood.
He was accused of many things, but missing an opportunity wasn't one.
Jeezus.

[Caballoflaco]

feudist I am saddened that the forum software only allows me one like to give. That was beautiful.

[4RNR]

Smaller city shitholes in my neck of the woods:

Reading, PA. Total shithole.

Harrisburg, PA. State capital and mega shithole.

Newark, NJ. Need I say more? Except there are a few ethnic neighborhoods that are more or less safe and have some kickass restaurants.

Trenton, NJ. Just don’t.

Atlantic City, NJ. Scary, with a nice ocean breeze.

On the other side of the ledger, Pittsburgh is really nice. Bethlehem is charming. Easton used to be a real shithole but has been on the upswing over the past several years.You forgot Camden and Philly

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[feudist]

Jeezus.

Hand to God it was a prestige planting by the Rat cognoscenti.

[Paul D]

My personal experience only:

Paris, France
Harare, Zimbabawe
Lusaka, Zambia.
Apache Junction, AZ
El Paso, TX
Detroit, MI
St. Louis, MO
New Orleans, LA: I went to school here. If you are a young at heart person, it is a fun place to explore. It is a shithole but it has great eats and is the BEST ran town in the 3rd world.

[Kanye Wyoming]

You forgot Camden and Philly
I did forget Camden, and for that I am self-flagellating. That’s like being asked to name sub-100 IQ vice presidents and forgetting our current one. I must have bleached it from my mind, as Camden may well be the shithole di tutti shitholes.

Philadelphia, on the other hand, while having the makings of a shithole if the mayoral primary goes a certain way tonight, is not quite there yet. Several large swaths of the city are in fact shitholes, and there’s no way I’d allow a child of mine to go to Temple. But Center City, the historic area, a good portion of South Philly, and certain other neighborhoods, are still hanging in there and are mostly — mostly — insulated from the chaos elsewhere. Maybe like the Green Zone in Baghdad?

[Totem Polar]

Is anyone else picking up an overarching vibe on the responses to this thread?

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0002/1446/6618/products/i-used-to-be-a-people-person-but-people-ruined-it-for-me-removable-patch-390258_2048x.jpg?v=1651557769



:D :D :D

[OfficeCat]

Parts of Portland. Parts of Seattle. Parts of San Francisco. Parts of Spokane. All those cities have nice parts too. I’m sure I’m missing, well… a majority of urban centers. ;)

But you asked for a rant. One of the alluring parts of motorcycling is passing through your environment, as opposed to the rolled-up-windows car procedure of passing by your environment. Which is great fun on a twisty mountain road, a scenic historic neighborhood, or through rolling farmland hills on secondary highways. Not so much while stopped at red light, looking around at the environment—which includes several odd, sunburnt guys on the sidewalks with their pants falling down; people on all 4 corners having arm-flailing arguments with themselves; multiple shirtless young men with teardrop tattoos on their faces, riding DWI bikes the wrong way through 3 lanes of stopped traffic, and; a grey old street lady dropping a deuce/taking a leak/whatever in the grass median on the side street across from the stop n rob.

Something about that overly-long 90 seconds at the light really took some of the magic out of being on 2 wheels, with nowhere to be for an afternoon.

:)

Spokane? I think I've been at that intersection. ;) I'm a relatively frequent visitor and I have to admit I have a soft spot for Spokane. To me, there's something honest about Spokane, like it became what it is organically, it's OK with that and it's not trying to be something else. A city comfortable in its own skin. If I'm going "out of town" for something to do on a weekend (something I end up doing every couple of months) I much prefer Spokane to the alternatives of Missoula (pretentious and a little full of itself) or Kalispell (grew way too fast over the past couple of decades, no "there" there anymore). Don't even get me started on Whitefish ...

[WDR]

Is anyone else picking up an overarching vibe on the responses to this thread?

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0002/1446/6618/products/i-used-to-be-a-people-person-but-people-ruined-it-for-me-removable-patch-390258_2048x.jpg?v=1651557769



:D :D :D

People are gross.

[4RNR]

I did forget Camden, and for that I am self-flagellating. That’s like being asked to name sub-100 IQ vice presidents and forgetting our current one. I must have bleached it from my mind, as Camden may well be the shithole di tutti shitholes.

Philadelphia, on the other hand, while having the makings of a shithole if the mayoral primary goes a certain way tonight, is not quite there yet. Several large swaths of the city are in fact shitholes, and there’s no way I’d allow a child of mine to go to Temple. But Center City, the historic area, a good portion of South Philly, and certain other neighborhoods, are still hanging in there and are mostly — mostly — insulated from the chaos elsewhere. Maybe like the Green Zone in Baghdad?

It's moving NE. Late 80s Castor/Cottman was nice. Blue color but clean. Now it's crap north past Grant although overall not bad further towards Byberry/Philmont. I now avoid the city as a general rule. Used to go to South Street (used to drink at Lary Fine's house).), Germantown and center city but it's been years. There's this low undertone of edginess and vibes of uneasiness that weren't there before.

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[Totem Polar]

Spokane? I think I've been at that intersection. ;) I'm a relatively frequent visitor and I have to admit I have a soft spot for Spokane. To me, there's something honest about Spokane, like it became what it is organically, it's OK with that and it's not trying to be something else. A city comfortable in its own skin. If I'm going "out of town" for something to do on a weekend (something I end up doing every couple of months) I much prefer Spokane to the alternatives of Missoula (pretentious and a little full of itself) or Kalispell (grew way too fast over the past couple of decades, no "there" there anymore). Don't even get me started on Whitefish ...

Yup. Agreed on all points; all towns. Very astute. And, yeah, it’s the same intersection that I detailed in a burglary thread last year. Insane street people convergence point. Always a good time. :cool:

[RevolverRob]

I've been a few places a few times and I'm generally pretty chill when it comes to places. To my mind a genuine shithole has zero redeeming qualities. The kind of place that could just disappear one day and no one would really care.

Cleveland
Las Vegas
Baltimore

None of those cities matter.

Frankly, I don't think Seattle matters much either. Atlanta - who cares about Atlanta?

There are plenty of small shitholes in the world to the point where I don't bother counting them.

[HeavyDuty]

Birmingham, Alabama.
Extremely high reported property crime. Reporting is very manipulated(downward) by the admin, and the local businesses, media and chamber of commerce cheer leads for the deception.
Ridiculous levels of violent crime...hugely underplayed unless it involves click-worthy subject matter. You know...
An incredibly enabling Juvenile court system, simultaneously overwhelmed and contributory, with beyond lunatic leftist judges who verge on co-conspiracy, and are 100% down for the most hug-a-thug policies and rulings you can't even imagine. Once they "graduate" to the big boy jail, the older, grown inmates live in abject fear of the mindlessly hysterical and utterly pointless violence the kids are capable of.

The Criminal courts are fecally impacted, with every detention facility in the state, from prisons to the local hoosegows so overcrowded(and under consent decree) from a laughably large career criminal population that nothing short of Biblical plague or someone going through with a flamethrower will ever make enough of a splash to wipe up. So the ball rolls downhill from the courts to the district attorney to the screening prosecutors to the detectives to drop every case possible for any reason imaginable...sometimes just by magicking them away. Burglary is trespassing, attempted murder is felony assault pled down to misdemeanor. Sentence suspended, concurrent, split, abeyed, diverted("He smokes weed, your honor, he needs rehab...")
Witness fails to show after the 15th postponement? Toss the case. Detective 15 minutes late? Toss the case. Defendants first time committing this exact crime? Toss.

Two decades plus of "homeless" shite infesting the downtown business areas, parks and all the libraries(you risk cholera, diphtheria, scabies and lice going to the downtown library. Or being assaulted by a "teen" left there as after-school daycare). They were cleared out for the World Games, though. Which was a financial disaster that resembled the 2008 crisis mixed with the withdrawal from Afghanistan. ( it did result in a salutary incident though. A trio of German athletes were jumped by a quintuple set of the Usual Suspects.
Only the timely arrival of West Precinct officers saved the yutes from physical mutilation, though not utter humiliation. To the vast amusement of the coppers.

25 plus years of criminally mismanaged infrastructure, from water to sewage to simple road maintenance.
It's so despised by literally everyone that every city around it is willing to cut off their own nose for spite, merely to oppose or inconvenience it. No one who works for it wants to live there, and the population has shrunk so much so fast that it's now the second largest city in the state, behind Huntsville...which not so long ago was a sleepy town known for the NASA rocket center and nothing else. Soon, it'll be third.
The only reason it exists as a corporate entity is the UAB hospital system. Absent that(and the UAB Emergency Room, which alone keeps the homicide rate under that of Juarez) it would be a burned out post-apocalyptic wasteland in a decade. The parts that already aren't, that is.

In the 90s, Mayor-For-Life Arrington led a city that was consistently placed in the nation's top 10 for per-capita homicides...so he opened a chain of funeral parlors in the Hood.
He was accused of many things, but missing an opportunity wasn't one.

Spectacular. My only Birmingham experience has been driving through twice, semi-successfully dodging the Buick sized and depth potholes on I-20. The city left a nasty impression even from that vantage point.

[Caballoflaco]

Is anyone else picking up an overarching vibe on the responses to this thread?

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0002/1446/6618/products/i-used-to-be-a-people-person-but-people-ruined-it-for-me-removable-patch-390258_2048x.jpg?v=1651557769



:D :D :D

I’ve never really been a city or a people person, but there’s still plenty of things about cities that I like even though you’ll occasionally find me screaming into my helmet “Fuck there’s too many fucking people around here”.

Maybe it was spending a decade living in a small town on the outskirts of the meth-torn economic wasteland that’s rural Alabama.

[TheNewbie]

Seattle was rather unimpressive and unappealing. This was almost 10 years ago. I would feel safer in Mexico City than Seattle.

[Clusterfrack]

Las Vegas is a shithole. Every street downtown smells like piss, tweakers are stumbling around like zombies, and it’s impossible to walk without getting hassled by con men/women. And this was before Noon on a weekday.

Appropriately, the Las Vegas bus is called the Deuce.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230517/b4db9d46f3c7ac474d9a6f6e591f93db.jpg

[MountainRaven]

I don't know - I think Bozeman is a starting to become a seasonal shithole. Thank god for hard winters...

Not hard enough, IMO.

[Clusterfrack]

Birmingham, Alabama.
Extremely high reported property crime. Reporting is very manipulated(downward) by the admin, and the local businesses, media and chamber of commerce cheer leads for the deception.
Ridiculous levels of violent crime...hugely underplayed unless it involves click-worthy subject matter. You know...
An incredibly enabling Juvenile court system, simultaneously overwhelmed and contributory, with beyond lunatic leftist judges who verge on co-conspiracy, and are 100% down for the most hug-a-thug policies and rulings you can't even imagine. Once they "graduate" to the big boy jail, the older, grown inmates live in abject fear of the mindlessly hysterical and utterly pointless violence the kids are capable of.

The Criminal courts are fecally impacted, with every detention facility in the state, from prisons to the local hoosegows so overcrowded(and under consent decree) from a laughably large career criminal population that nothing short of Biblical plague or someone going through with a flamethrower will ever make enough of a splash to wipe up. So the ball rolls downhill from the courts to the district attorney to the screening prosecutors to the detectives to drop every case possible for any reason imaginable...sometimes just by magicking them away. Burglary is trespassing, attempted murder is felony assault pled down to misdemeanor. Sentence suspended, concurrent, split, abeyed, diverted("He smokes weed, your honor, he needs rehab...")
Witness fails to show after the 15th postponement? Toss the case. Detective 15 minutes late? Toss the case. Defendants first time committing this exact crime? Toss.

Two decades plus of "homeless" shite infesting the downtown business areas, parks and all the libraries(you risk cholera, diphtheria, scabies and lice going to the downtown library. Or being assaulted by a "teen" left there as after-school daycare). They were cleared out for the World Games, though. Which was a financial disaster that resembled the 2008 crisis mixed with the withdrawal from Afghanistan. ( it did result in a salutary incident though. A trio of German athletes were jumped by a quintuple set of the Usual Suspects.
Only the timely arrival of West Precinct officers saved the yutes from physical mutilation, though not utter humiliation. To the vast amusement of the coppers.

25 plus years of criminally mismanaged infrastructure, from water to sewage to simple road maintenance.
It's so despised by literally everyone that every city around it is willing to cut off their own nose for spite, merely to oppose or inconvenience it. No one who works for it wants to live there, and the population has shrunk so much so fast that it's now the second largest city in the state, behind Huntsville...which not so long ago was a sleepy town known for the NASA rocket center and nothing else. Soon, it'll be third.
The only reason it exists as a corporate entity is the UAB hospital system. Absent that(and the UAB Emergency Room, which alone keeps the homicide rate under that of Juarez) it would be a burned out post-apocalyptic wasteland in a decade. The parts that already aren't, that is.

In the 90s, Mayor-For-Life Arrington led a city that was consistently placed in the nation's top 10 for per-capita homicides...so he opened a chain of funeral parlors in the Hood.
He was accused of many things, but missing an opportunity wasn't one.

I hung out in downtown Birmingham on a Saturday night when I was out there for the 2021 USPSA LoCap Nationals. I didn't see any homeless, and the downtown looked clean and prosperous. There were no BLM signs, and I saw people chatting nicely with two cops who were on foot patrol. Everyone seemed to be getting along. I ate at a pub full of hipsters (white and black), and had a nice time talking with a bartender about how Birmingham had improved a lot in the past few years.

[Paul Blackburn]

This podcast details why American cities are becoming 3rd world shanty towns.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/sunday-special-with-raheem-kassam/id1585243541?i=1000612960905

[fatdog]

I hung out in downtown Birmingham on a Saturday night ....had a nice time talking with a bartender about how Birmingham had improved a lot in the past few years.

Last 10-12 years there has been a significant gentrification and sort of urban renewal with apartments, lofts, parks, millennials moving there. But the underlying stuff Fuedist describes is real and getting worse. There are just these sorts of islands of urban prosperity now in downtown where there is in fact a PD presence and an effort at having some neighborhoods that appear sane. They do seem to sweep the homeless down toward certain areas away from those gentrified areas.

But depopulation is Birmingham's destiny. The numbers of abandoned houses and emptying neighborhoods is starting to remind me of detroit and the city is trying to tear down some of those structures which have no future except to be homeless/drug houses. The place has a now long history of petty government corruption that is also spiraling down just like Detroit. The machine politics means there is no turning back for the place.

The youth violence in that place is stunning, and as fuedist describes, the absolutely feral young gang bangers scare everybody including even the older criminals, and their culture and norms are sadly spreading.

[RoyGBiv]

The problem for me there would be no reciprocity.

LV falls into my category with NOLA and Shanghai:
1) Been There
2) Would Go Back Tomorrow, If I NEEDED To
3) DGAF If I Never Go Back

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

Shanghai? I LOVE Shanghai.... Shanghai is like if Guiliani-era NYC and SFO had a baby.

Beijing? For sure among the worst places I've ever visited... despite the Forbidden City being spectacular. 2 days too many.

[DC_P]

Atlanta - who cares about Atlanta? .

I wish I didn't have to. Fortunately the northern suburbs are like being in a different state (although still not great). Sadly I have to drive through or near the city to get to work.

[mmc45414]

Shanghai? I LOVE Shanghai.... Shanghai is like if Guiliani-era NYC and SFO had a baby.
My trip was quite a while ago (~1998?) and at that point my impression was more like a crappy part of Chicago, with a bunch of in-process construction projects that no one seemed to be actively working on. Also part of my impression was from a different mindset and experience being a customer instead of a vendor, going from one event to the next, eating "delicacies" that were not all that appetizing, while expected to wear a suit to every event, and be pleasant the whole time.

Later on the same trip we went to a resort on Langkawi Island for a series of meetings that I wasn't required to be in many, and that was a whole different story! :cool:

[RevolverRob]

Seattle was rather unimpressive and unappealing. This was almost 10 years ago. I would feel safer in Mexico City than Seattle.

Nah. You're safer in Seattle than Mexico City - for now.

But it is the only North American city I've been in where I consistently had to step around piles of human shit, used needles, and smell crack being smoked as I walked to my office downtown. I know I described in a thread around here somewhere the day a pair of shit and blood caked boxer shorts were flying through the air at on a windy, rainy, Seattle day and nearly flew into me. That was but one instance of that kind of stuff.

Chicago sucked. And people burning and looting buildings during the pandemic and burning cars on Halloween all served to remind you that human garbage was there - many places weren't safe, but many many places were. I miss many things about Chicago. I miss a few things about the PNW (mainly specific people), but I don't miss Seattle. I doubt I ever will miss Seattle, to be honest.

[TheNewbie]

Nah. You're safer in Seattle than Mexico City - for now.

But it is the only North American city I've been in where I consistently had to step around piles of human shit, used needles, and smell crack being smoked as I walked to my office downtown. I know I described in a thread around here somewhere the day a pair of shit and blood caked boxer shorts were flying through the air at on a windy, rainy, Seattle day and nearly flew into me. That was but one instance of that kind of stuff.

Chicago sucked. And people burning and looting buildings during the pandemic and burning cars on Halloween all served to remind you that human garbage was there - many places weren't safe, but many many places were. I miss many things about Chicago. I miss a few things about the PNW (mainly specific people), but I don't miss Seattle. I doubt I ever will miss Seattle, to be honest.


It was a shock to me. I’ve never seen anything close to it in Mexico City. Mexico City has its own flavor of crazy, but Seattle was something out there. I’m not saying I’m right, just that even looking like I do, I *feel* safer when I walk alone in Mexico City.

I remember a dude making bird sounds in the street, another guy talking about it and the US mail man didn’t seem to speak English all that well. The train from the airport to the bus station close to the Seahawk stadium was also interesting.

The only time I’ve had to step around human waste was in a homeless camp. Which Seattle seems to be a big version of.

Once we got out of the city, it was nice.

That boxer story is crazy!

[Borderland]

Albuquerque, NM

Parts of Chicago. Some parts are really nice and others not so much. I really enjoyed the Museum of Science and Industry when I was there last time, then turned on the news back at the hotel and some was shot 2 blocks away that day.

Yeah, ABQ. There's a bad side of town. Mostly south of Central east of the river and south of US 66 west of the river. I learned the places to avoid from my cousin who's lived there for 40 years.

I like NM, just not ABQ.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Before we left Portland in 1994, my wife and I noted that parking structures for Portland State University, were a great place for folks to take a dump.

[Clusterfrack]

Before we left Portland in 1994, my wife and I noted that parking structures for Portland State University, were a great place for folks to take a dump.

Not much has changed about that.

[TGS]

For a city to qualify as a shithole, it needs no redeeming quality. Every city has generally increased crime levels and bad neighborhoods; that doesn't mean they're shitholes, that means they're cities. For those of you who live in a bubble, welcome to the world.

If a city has a nice area where people can go to enjoy their time, it's probably not a shithole city regardless of the fact you've never crossed the river to leave town and are afraid of human contact.

[Clusterfrack]

For a city to qualify as a shithole, it needs no redeeming quality. Every city has generally increased crime levels and bad neighborhoods; that doesn't mean they're shitholes, that means they're cities. For those of you who live in a bubble, welcome to the world.

If a city has a nice area where people can go to enjoy their time, it's probably not a shithole city regardless of the fact you've never crossed the river to leave town and are afraid of human contact.

I agree, and that was my intent when I started this thread. Portland is getting more shitholey, but our neighborhood is beautiful, clean, and safe. We go out for dinner and drinks at least once a week and don't have to dodge hobos.

Admittedly I didn't try that hard but I couldn't find anything redeeming about Las Vegas. Unless you are inside a casino complex, the place is a shithole.

[HeavyDuty]

For a city to qualify as a shithole, it needs no redeeming quality. Every city has generally increased crime levels and bad neighborhoods; that doesn't mean they're shitholes, that means they're cities. For those of you who live in a bubble, welcome to the world.

If a city has a nice area where people can go to enjoy their time, it's probably not a shithole city regardless of the fact you've never crossed the river to leave town and are afraid of human contact.

Agreed - my old small city (Aurora, IL) has a shithole reputation, but it’s actually a great place to live so long as you stay out of certain areas.

[RoyGBiv]

Admittedly I didn't try that hard but I couldn't find anything redeeming about Las Vegas. Unless you are inside a casino complex, the place is a shithole.

The strip and nearby is an overpriced shithole, for sure...
Although, LV has some decent restaurants off the strip...
If you like Thai... this is my favorite... Definitely get the Garlic Prawns and the Crispy Duck...

https://lotusofsiamlv.com/

The old location (still temporarily closed for several years) had a slightly run-down, Bangkok kind of vibe in a dated strip center full of Asian restaurants and bars. I loved that place and made a point of visiting when I had to go to Vegas for any reason I couldn't avoid. Have not been to the new, clean location...

[jetfire]

The problem with the idea of "cities as shitholes" is that it's just as much of a "I live in a bubble mindset" as the people in those cities have about "flyover country."

Every major city I've been to across the world had shithole parts and awesome parts. Some are certainly worse than others, but "XYZ is a shithole" because there are some bums pissing downtown is a smooth-brain take

[Borderland]

For a city to qualify as a shithole, it needs no redeeming quality. Every city has generally increased crime levels and bad neighborhoods; that doesn't mean they're shitholes, that means they're cities. For those of you who live in a bubble, welcome to the world.

If a city has a nice area where people can go to enjoy their time, it's probably not a shithole city regardless of the fact you've never crossed the river to leave town and are afraid of human contact.

I'm living in a bubble. ;)

[Borderland]

The strip and nearby is an overpriced shithole, for sure...
Although, LV has some decent restaurants off the strip...
If you like Thai... this is my favorite... Definitely get the Garlic Prawns and the Crispy Duck...

https://lotusofsiamlv.com/

The old location (still temporarily closed for several years) had a slightly run-down, Bangkok kind of vibe in a dated strip center full of Asian restaurants and bars. I loved that place and made a point of visiting when I had to go to Vegas for any reason I couldn't avoid. Have not been to the new, clean location...

LV in the 60-70's was pretty awesome, even if organized crime ran the casinos and everything else.

There wasn't much on the strip in those days. Glitter Gulch (Fremont St.) was the attraction.

https://i.ibb.co/DLH4V7W/LV-1970.jpg (https://ibb.co/stdjmFR)

[John Hearne]

Cities are concentrations of people to a perceived mutual benefit. It concentrates the whole social spectrum so everything gets amplified. You also seem to need a certain concentration of bad actors to play off of each other - a certain critical mass to play off of each other. When you combine that with diminishing law enforcement, you get what we have.

I'd also point out that you get a critical mass of good. When I last visited Chicago, I had an extra day to visit the Field Museum. I just made sure I had an alarm set and left around 3:30 in the afternoon and stayed out in the suburbs.

I lived in Vegas in the late 90's. I stayed away from the Strip, except for locals night at the Tropicana Comedy Club, and still had a great time. Las Vegas has a reasonable mix of good and bad places as opposed to some areas that are mostly bad - such as Jackson, MS or Memphis, TN. In those areas, anyone who could get out fled to new suburb cities leaving all the problem children together.

I was in Memphis for a funeral last week. It was right at the state line, like 1/2 mile away, from Southaven, MS. Crossing that imaginary line was like entering a different world. One side tolerated lawlessness and didn't send people to Parchman. The other side, didn't.

[RoyGBiv]

LV in the 60-70's was pretty awesome, even if organized crime ran the casinos and everything else.

There wasn't much on the strip in those days. Glitter Gulch (Fremont St.) was the attraction.

https://i.ibb.co/DLH4V7W/LV-1970.jpg (https://ibb.co/stdjmFR)

My son was in LV in March 22, said that he enjoyed that area much more than the strip... Apparently they've been rehabbing Fremont St.. ? Some of the pictures he sent looked better than the last time I was up that way... Still full of hookers, he said.

[Borderland]

My son was in LV in March 22, said that he enjoyed that area much more than the strip... Apparently they've been rehabbing Fremont St.. ? Some of the pictures he sent looked better than the last time I was up that way... Still full of hookers, he said.

Hookers. Nothing has changed. ;)

My dad and step mom lived in LV late 60's-early 80's. Then they moved to the Abilene area and retired. LV was just too fast for them I guess.

[Totem Polar]

For a city to qualify as a shithole, it needs no redeeming quality. Every city has generally increased crime levels and bad neighborhoods; that doesn't mean they're shitholes, that means they're cities. For those of you who live in a bubble, welcome to the world.

If a city has a nice area where people can go to enjoy their time, it's probably not a shithole city regardless of the fact you've never crossed the river to leave town and are afraid of human contact.

My metric is if there are still nice places within the central, historic downtown core where people can go to enjoy their time. Any P-F’er that wants to come to Spokanistan is welcome to #1, take a driving tour of the skell petting zoo with me, and #2, is welcome to go a few city blocks away to have *fantastic* craft cocktails and eats and a walk through the park along the river afterwards—without even keeping a hand on the primary, even.

I’ll leave it to others to let me know if Portland proper still makes the cut.

[Le Français]

For a city to qualify as a shithole, it needs no redeeming quality. Every city has generally increased crime levels and bad neighborhoods; that doesn't mean they're shitholes, that means they're cities. For those of you who live in a bubble, welcome to the world.

If a city has a nice area where people can go to enjoy their time, it's probably not a shithole city regardless of the fact you've never crossed the river to leave town and are afraid of human contact.


The problem with the idea of "cities as shitholes" is that it's just as much of a "I live in a bubble mindset" as the people in those cities have about "flyover country."

Every major city I've been to across the world had shithole parts and awesome parts. Some are certainly worse than others, but "XYZ is a shithole" because there are some bums pissing downtown is a smooth-brain take

Very true. If you never venture into big cities due to fear-mongering media panic, you're entirely free to do that, just as the rest of us (that is, the majority) are entirely free to consider that as strange and unfortunate a self-limitation as it would be to never go hiking or boating.

Sure, there are parts of New York/Paris/Rome/New Haven/Los Angeles/San Francisco/DFW/Miami/Washington DC/Cincinnati where you might not feel safe in an Abrams surrounded by USSS agents. But I have somehow had enjoyable, completely crime-free visits to all of those cities in recent memory. (Except for the crime I was specifically there to address, where applicable.)

I love rural America and enjoy my time there, but if your overall impression of any of the cities I listed is "this is a shithole", then you might be a rube. Just sayin'.

[Joe in PNG]

I'd put it this way: if the good parts of a city are basically holding their own, or are actually expanding, the city isn't really a shitehole.

But, if the bad parts are expanding and the good parts shrinking, it's a shitehole.

[Jakus]

I would suggest that instead of naming all the cities nearing 1M of population we consider the metric of a cities Narcan budget relative to that cities highest paid municipal employee.

[Cheap Shot]

Very true. If you never venture into big cities due to fear-mongering media panic, you're entirely free to do that, just as the rest of us (that is, the majority) are entirely free to consider that as strange and unfortunate a self-limitation as it would be to never go hiking or boating.

Sure, there are parts of New York/Paris/Rome/New Haven/Los Angeles/San Francisco/DFW/Miami/Washington DC/Cincinnati where you might not feel safe in an Abrams surrounded by USSS agents. But I have somehow had enjoyable, completely crime-free visits to all of those cities in recent memory. (Except for the crime I was specifically there to address, where applicable.)

I love rural America and enjoy my time there, but if your overall impression of any of the cities I listed is "this is a shithole", then you might be a rube. Just sayin'.

Respectfully disagree. "venturing" into the city is superficial. IMHO Just another type of virtue signalling and woke tolerance tourism (this isnt a slam at anyone especially Le F, but more a limitation of my thought process). Maybe we should define what a "shithole city" is?. Again IMHO, The real question is would you live there, raise and send your kids to the neighborhood public schools, live in a home without bars on the doors and windows, take your dog for a walk in the neighborhood after dark? If not, IMHO its a shithole city.

Im trying to sort this out in my head, and value challenges to my comments.

Signed

A Rube formerly from Detroit

[Le Français]

Respectfully disagree. "venturing" into the city is superficial. IMHO Just another type of virtue signalling and woke tolerance tourism (this isnt a slam at anyone especially Le F, but more a limitation of my thought process). Maybe we should define what a "shithole city" is?. Again IMHO, The real question is would you live there, raise and send your kids to the neighborhood public schools, live in a home without bars on the doors and windows, take your dog for a walk in the neighborhood after dark? If not, IMHO its a shithole city.

Im trying to sort this out in my head, and value challenges to my comments.

Signed

A Rube formerly from Detroit

I think I see what you're saying, and fair enough. But, many people just visit cities and don't live in them for various reasons. Why isn't it ok to judge a city based on how pleasant it is to visit? I certainly wouldn't live on a mountain in Chile or in a desert in North Africa, but those are very cool places to visit.

"This place is a shithole" and "I would gladly spend time and money visiting this place" are just not compatible to me.

[Totem Polar]

I would suggest that instead of naming all the cities nearing 1M of population we consider the metric of a cities Narcan budget relative to that cities highest paid municipal employee.

Ooooh! If all the local coffeehouses I saw in an urban area have customer-accessable Narcan bolted to the walls, does that make the area a #shithole?

Asking for my Portland friends…

;)

[Borderland]

I think I see what you're saying, and fair enough. But, many people just visit cities and don't live in them for various reasons. Why isn't it ok to judge a city based on how pleasant it is to visit? I certainly wouldn't live on a mountain in Chile or in a desert in North Africa, but those are very cool places to visit.

"This place is a shithole" and "I would gladly spend time and money visiting this place" are just not compatible to me.



Why isn't it ok to judge a city based on how pleasant it is to visit?

LV would fall in that category. LV is a great city if you want to be entertained, want a good restaurant, looking for a hooker or do some casino gaming. If I'm not mistaken NV is the only state where prostitution is legal. There are a few Mormon towns where it isn't however. You've probably never heard of them.

I guess it depends on how one defines pleasant. i know a couple that vacation there every year. I'm afraid to ask why.

[Clusterfrack]

Ooooh! If all the local coffeehouses I saw in an urban area have customer-accessable Narcan bolted to the walls, does that make the area a #shithole?

Asking for my Portland friends…

;)

Yes.

[DDTSGM]

Why isn't it ok to judge a city based on how pleasant it is to visit?

LV would fall in that category. LV is a great city if you want to be entertained, want a good restaurant, looking for a hooker or do some casino gaming. If I'm not mistaken NV is the only state where prostitution is legal. There are a few Mormon towns where it isn't however. You've probably never heard of them.

Actually, prostitution is legal in 10 of Nevada's 16 counties + Carson City (for a total of 17 'counties'). Since prostitution is illegal in counties with population over 700,000, it is currently illegal in LV - Clark County.

Outside of Reno/Sparks and LV, I thought the rest of Nevada was pretty rural when I lived there. One of my fondest memories of my grandmother when she visited us was when I got a picture of her standing under the arch of the Mustang Bridge Ranch with a group of college boys with their arms around her. She told her bridge club when she showed them the picture that she was broke and had to work her way home.

Personal favorites among the Marines from NAD Hawthorne were the Mustang, the Green Front in Hawthorne, and Bobbies Buckeye Ranch in Tonapah.

[Lex Luthier]

Actually, prostitution is legal in 10 of Nevada's 16 counties + Carson City (for a total of 17 'counties'). Since prostitution is illegal in counties with population over 700,000, it is currently illegal in LV - Clark County.

Outside of Reno/Sparks and LV, I thought the rest of Nevada was pretty rural when I lived there. One of my fondest memories of my grandmother when she visited us was when I got a picture of her standing under the arch of the Mustang Bridge Ranch with a group of college boys with their arms around her. She told her bridge club when she showed them the picture that she was broke and had to work her way home.

Personal favorites among the Marines from NAD Hawthorne were the Mustang, the Green Front in Hawthorne, and Bobbies Buckeye Ranch in Tonapah.

Your grandma sounds like a hoot. I expect I would have liked her.

[MickAK]

Admittedly I didn't try that hard but I couldn't find anything redeeming about Las Vegas.

Every city has redeeming qualities depending on where you are in your life and who you meet in your first 24 hours there. I've had some of my best times in some of the worst cities.

The folks commenting that cities have always been this way are the ones in a bubble. Something is different now. Cities have always been that way, and there were always ways cities and their populations worked to contain that problem. Those ways have been abandoned completely. That containment has frayed, strained, and in many cities flat out broken. There isn't a way back without a significant amount of ugliness and human rights violations.

There is behavior going on in the best parts of nice West Coast cities that would have got you immediately assaulted if not flat out lynched in the worst parts of the worst cities in the country 20 years ago.

[Joe in PNG]

The folks commenting that cities have always been this way are the ones in a bubble. Something is different now. Cities have always been that way, and there were always ways cities and their populations worked to contain that problem. Those ways have been abandoned completely. That containment has frayed, strained, and in many cities flat out broken. There isn't a way back without a significant amount of ugliness and human rights violations.


Cities are ecosystems like forest or lakes. There's factors that keep parts in check, and if they're reduced or removed, you get an overgrowth. Too few predators, and the populations of things like deer explode. Too many years without a fire, and you get a conflagration. Too many nutrients in the water, and you get an algae bloom.

We're seeing something similar here with various factors upsetting the urban ecosystems of many cities- and there's plenty for both sides to point at.

However, I would really recommend a reading of Asbury's "Gangs of New York". It takes a centuries long view of the crime problem in that city, and we see a lot of the same things then that we do now- lack of opportunity, political corruption, injustice, racism, riots, substance abuse, ect.

[Hambo]

I did forget Camden, and for that I am self-flagellating. That’s like being asked to name sub-100 IQ vice presidents and forgetting our current one. I must have bleached it from my mind, as Camden may well be the shithole di tutti shitholes.

Philadelphia, on the other hand, while having the makings of a shithole if the mayoral primary goes a certain way tonight, is not quite there yet. Several large swaths of the city are in fact shitholes, and there’s no way I’d allow a child of mine to go to Temple. But Center City, the historic area, a good portion of South Philly, and certain other neighborhoods, are still hanging in there and are mostly — mostly — insulated from the chaos elsewhere. Maybe like the Green Zone in Baghdad?

I'm going to disagree. Philly and Camden are the Twin Shitholes. Last time I went through there I was struck by the thought that if there was ever a need for carpet bombing CONUS, it's Philly/Camden.

Honorable mention in Jersey goes to Atlantic City. It's like Beirut, but facing the other direction.

Closer to home is Orlando, FL. Orlando is safer than 4% (not a typo) of American cities. Your chances of being a violent crime victim are double that of the rest of Florida, which is no small accomplishment. Even in nice neighborhoods, Mogadishu-like settings are never far away. Orlando highways feature electronic tolls every quarter mile so you can pay for the privilege of experiencing never-ending construction, road rage, and 75 million lost out of towners. The only good thing about the tourists is that they provide cover for locals at gas stations, convenience stores, and other criminal water holes. Welcome to Orlando signs should feature a reminder that a FL CWP does not limit holders to just one gun, because Orlando is definitely a two gun minimum.

PS-Fuck Mickey Mouse...

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Ooooh! If all the local coffeehouses I saw in an urban area have customer-accessable Narcan bolted to the walls, does that make the area a #shithole?

Asking for my Portland friends…

;)

Well, starting to see Bleed Out kits on the walls next to the AEDs in lots of places. Do we need new gun laws?

[WobblyPossum]

For a city to qualify as a shithole, it needs no redeeming quality. Every city has generally increased crime levels and bad neighborhoods; that doesn't mean they're shitholes, that means they're cities. For those of you who live in a bubble, welcome to the world.

If a city has a nice area where people can go to enjoy their time, it's probably not a shithole city regardless of the fact you've never crossed the river to leave town and are afraid of human contact.


The problem with the idea of "cities as shitholes" is that it's just as much of a "I live in a bubble mindset" as the people in those cities have about "flyover country."

Every major city I've been to across the world had shithole parts and awesome parts. Some are certainly worse than others, but "XYZ is a shithole" because there are some bums pissing downtown is a smooth-brain take

Then our list of potential shithole cities gets pared down to practically nothing and the members of the forum will have nothing to complain about in this thread. I can’t think of any place in this country I’ve ever been in that didn’t have a single redeeming quality. I guess Mogadishu might be a shithole but I’ve never been there so I could be wrong.

[TGS]

Then our list of potential shithole cities gets pared down to practically nothing and the members of the forum will have nothing to complain about in this thread. I can’t think of any place in this country I’ve ever been in that didn’t have a single redeeming quality. I guess Mogadishu might be a shithole but I’ve never been there so I could be wrong.

Many of the decayed industrial cities.

Camden NJ, Trenton NJ, Paterson NJ, Newark NJ, Flint MI, Gary IN, etc etc are all examples of shitholes. They're overwhelmingly bad and don't have any redeeming quality....as opposed to say DC, Savannah, or Portland, which all have multiple large neighborhoods that are still thriving, financially sound, and features/attractions that are nice places to visit. Borderline shitholes would be somewhere like Philly, where the previously nice places to live or visit (City Center, French Quarter, or Rittenhouse Square, for example) are getting severely impacted by the fallout from depolicing.

ETA: Baltimore is squarely in the shithole category for me. 10 years ago it wouldn't have been, but nowadays even the inner harbor has lost all its "charm" (Balmer being nicknamed charm city). There's not really a reason to go there now; crime is out of control everywhere in the city, and it shows: the inner harbor looks akin to those decayed industrial cities, and half the businesses are closed down. It is, in essence, dead.

P.S. I used to live and work in Trenton. Kanye Wyoming is on point.

[JCL]

....as opposed to say DC, Savannah, or Portland, which all have multiple large neighborhoods that are still thriving, financially sound, and features/attractions that are nice places to visit....

I'd be curiouis to know when you last visited Portland. The "features/attractions" are consequence-free theft and drug use coupled with survivable winters. There might be some purely residential areas nearby relatively unaffected by the zombie plague, but I am unaware of any area of the city proper that has not been seriously degraded by pevasive lawlessness. Many once-vibrant neighborhods are legitimate shitholes now, complete with actual shit in the doorways of boarded-up businesses. This isn't a case of a city losing its industrial economic base. This is a case of politics turning a city into a Mecca for indigents who are driving out productive economic activity.

[TGS]

I'd be curiouis to know when you last visited Portland.

I'm going off Clusterfrack, who I believe in this thread has stated such as a resident.

[JCL]

I'm going off Clusterfrack, who I believe in this thread has stated such as a resident.

Oh, I thought that the opinion you offered was based on personal experience.

[TGS]

Oh, I thought that the opinion you offered was based on personal experience.

Nah, not with regards to Portland, at least. Last time I was there was 2017, and I was blown away by how awesome a city it was. I'm originally from NJ, so anything that doesn't look like Berlin ca-1945 tends to impress me.

My opinions on Philly, Baltimore, DC, and Savannah are based on recurring, long term personal experience.

[LittleLebowski]

Smaller city shitholes in my neck of the woods:

Reading, PA. Total shithole.

Harrisburg, PA. State capital and mega shithole.

Newark, NJ. Need I say more? Except there are a few ethnic neighborhoods that are more or less safe and have some kickass restaurants.

Trenton, NJ. Just don’t.

Atlantic City, NJ. Scary, with a nice ocean breeze.

On the other side of the ledger, Pittsburgh is really nice. Bethlehem is charming. Easton used to be a real shithole but has been on the upswing over the past several years.

Funny how so many of those are in the Northeast, a region I assiduously avoid :D

[blues]

Funny how so many of those are in the Northeast, a region I assiduously avoid :D

I would argue that if you take a 50 state tour, you'll find plenty of shithole cities spread throughout the U.S.

(I'd prefer that it weren't so...but I believe that to be the case.)

[DDTSGM]

Your grandma sounds like a hoot. I expect I would have liked her.

Thank you, she was. It sometimes makes me a little melancholy when I think of her and my mom, miss them both, more than I appreciated them when they were living.

Grandma story: She took the bus out to see us, and she loved to play the penny slots at the bus station in Reno. The second time she came out she told us to give her a little time to play the slots before we picked her up.

[blues]

Listed in order of high to low violent crime, (I chose this over property crime but you can change the options):


104824




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate

[theJanitor]

Honolulu is trying it's best to join the Shithole City list

[blues]

Honolulu is trying it's best to join the Shithole City list

I'm sorry, they'll have to work harder at #74. Nestled between Newark, NJ and Madison, WI. Keep at it, though. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

[Totem Polar]

Listed in order of high to low violent crime, (I chose this over property crime but you can change the options):


104824




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate

Wait, Wut??? fourth?!?

:eek::confused::D

[Clusterfrack]

I'd be curiouis to know when you last visited Portland. The "features/attractions" are consequence-free theft and drug use coupled with survivable winters. There might be some purely residential areas nearby relatively unaffected by the zombie plague, but I am unaware of any area of the city proper that has not been seriously degraded by pevasive lawlessness. Many once-vibrant neighborhods are legitimate shitholes now, complete with actual shit in the doorways of boarded-up businesses. This isn't a case of a city losing its industrial economic base. This is a case of politics turning a city into a Mecca for indigents who are driving out productive economic activity.


I'm going off Clusterfrack, who I believe in this thread has stated such as a resident.

JCL's neighborhood has taken a bigger hit from Portland's decline than mine. We've had a few hobos stagger through the area, and a recent shooting outside a lunch spot we frequent. This doesn't come close to what JCL deals with on a daily basis. I'll leave it up to him if he wants to post some pics.

It hasn't reached the point where its unlivable, but most of the downtown now ranges from unpleasant to unsafe during daylight hours. That gets worse after dark. It's sad, because Portland used to be such a fun and attractive city.

EDIT: I just read blues post about violent crime rankings (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?57107-Shithole-Cities&p=1479450&viewfull=1#post1479450). Holy crap, Portland is #15!

[blues]

EDIT: I just read blues post about violent crime rankings (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?57107-Shithole-Cities&p=1479450&viewfull=1#post1479450). Holy crap, Portland is #15!


Yeah, but your murder rate is much more civilized than most of the others in the top group. Stay out of St. Louis.

[Totem Polar]

I’m still trying to figure out why wiki has a hard on for Spokane; it’s got the lowest murder rate on the chart, but we came in 4th?

I admit that our demographics could certainly make the town relatively rapey and *very* car/garage prowly (seen it first hand, more than once), but I don’t see Spokane as being more violent than Memphis or St Louis. Que pasa?

[blues]

Listed by murder rate per 100,000...


104830

[gruntjim]

Agree about Portland being a shithole.

I have to work in the city proper, but I live in a nearby suburb. Believe me when I say, my head is generally on a swivel.

And to add some sprinkles to this particular shit sundae, we're getting more and more bums encroaching westward, into Washington County.

There's no shortage of addled people wandering into traffic on Barbur, screaming at drivers about 'their damned ole fancy cars.'

[Clusterfrack]

Adding Salt Lake City (https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ut/salt-lake-city/crime):
Violent Crimes Per 100k: 1000 (Rank #25/101)
Property Crimes Per 100k: 7000 (Rank #3/101)

[JCL]

I’m still trying to figure out why wiki has a hard on for Spokane; it’s got the lowest murder rate on the chart, but we came in 4th?

I admit that our demographics could certainly make the town relatively rapey and *very* car/garage prowly (seen it first hand, more than once), but I don’t see Spokane as being more violent than Memphis or St Louis. Que pasa?

I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for Spokane. I almost got an agressive glue-huffing panhandler to wander into traffic in front of the Ridpath after re-establishing my personal space with a flashlight. Falling when he stepped off the curb saved him.


Agree about Portland being a shithole.

I have to work in the city proper, but I live in a nearby suburb. Believe me when I say, my head is generally on a swivel.

And to add some sprinkles to this particular shit sundae, we're getting more and more bums encroaching westward, into Washington County.

There's no shortage of addled people wandering into traffic on Barbur, screaming at drivers about 'their damned ole fancy cars.'

Weve gone from "put a bird on it" to "put a turd on it." Now we have a huge homeless-industrial complex with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.

[Outpost75]

If you want to escape DC and have a nice dinner where you can bring your gun try the Mountain View Diner in Charles Town, WV. If the Mountain View is full the Rainbow is also very good.

[Clusterfrack]

Listed by murder rate per 100,000...


104830

A violent crime rate of 2000/100000 per year results in a [1 - (1 - 0.02)^20] = 33% chance of having a violent crime happen to you in 20 years.

[blues]

A violent crime rate of 2000/100000 per year results in a [1 - (1 - 0.02)^20] = 33% chance of having a violent crime happen to you in 20 years.


You gotta move sometime within the 19th year and restart the clock. ;)

[Totem Polar]

You gotta move sometime within the 19th year and restart the clock. ;)

Or sucker punch 1 in 3 people in the line ahead of you at the grocery store. That might also work.

:eek:

;)

[blues]

Or sucker punch 1 in 3 people in the line ahead of you at the grocery store. That might also work.

:eek:

;)


You don't do that?

[Totem Polar]

You don't do that?

Well, I do live in Spokane, after all.

[Archimagirus]

Albuquerque absolutely qualifies. The info on the bad parts of town is out of date and old school in my opinion. Those are the really bad areas, but the entire Eastside with the exception of the really expensive parts of town along the foothills and along Paseo del Norte are unredeemable. Albuquerque is a great example of the issues with the judicial system other have expressed about other towns and having an organized crime family active that literally predates New Mexico becoming a state. There was so much flight to the west side of town that the Air Force base sold the biggest chunks of base housing because no one wanted to live in that part of town.

The cops I knew there were first rate and trying their best, but the judges in particular let them down. APD did a pretty good job of recruiting people who were a bit older and had non military or police experience and genuinely cared about the community. There were few incidents of bad cops doing bad things that rocked the community support they had garnered.

The sunsets are amazing though.

Portland is a tough one. The Washington County sheriff and the police departments on the west side of town are pretty dialed in and do good work. Clackamas County is much the same and during Riot Season in 2020, threatened to end the mutual aide agreement with Portland PD, the local Transit police and Multanomah County because the rules that they were proposing would put his deputies in danger of being charged with crimes. PPD eliminating their so called “gun crime” unit started letting things pop off on the eastside of town in ways that the civilian administration did not anticipate.

I think if Portland would either: a.) Solve its homeless industrial complex problem or b.) put an end to Riot Season it would improve greatly. Unfortunately, riot season is largely self induced because they are providing tents, tarps, and sleeping bags to the homeless and allow them to camp in public areas. A goodly portion of the rioters are not locals and just happen to be homeless. If the new bill passes the legislature to provided even more protections for the homeless, it is going to get even worse.

[blues]

Sporkane.


The tactical spork...


https://cdn.outdoorhub.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/01/Screen-Shot-2022-01-30-at-8.54.55-PM.png

[Coyotesfan97]

And the Dirty T represents for Arizona. 18th Tucson? Rookie numbers you can do better then that:cool:

[TheNewbie]

Even in Iztapalapa, I’ve never seen someone taking a dump in the street.

[Nephrology]

Has Denver been discussed yet? Because seriously fuck Denver

[Clusterfrack]

Has Denver been discussed yet? Because seriously fuck Denver

We tried riding the bus downtown Denver but found out it was a homeless shelter.

Our friends live in Golden, and that’s a great place. Some parts of Denver seem ok too.

[Nephrology]

We tried riding the bus downtown Denver but found out it was a homeless shelter.

Our friends live in Golden, and that’s a great place. Some parts of Denver seem ok too.

Oh yeah. The bus system in Denver is a hard no-go.

I like some of the exurbs (parker, centennial, SE aurora, littleton, etc). Just not terribly affordable.

Also everyone seems to have an incredibly fake ass job that lets them go hiking in the middle of the day.

[Erik]

Sporkane.


The tactical spork...


https://cdn.outdoorhub.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/01/Screen-Shot-2022-01-30-at-8.54.55-PM.png

I like how s/t/he/y roll/s.

[dtw]

Ashville, NC is approaching shithole status, if it hasn't arrived already. I'm hearing it called Trashville often.

Jackson Mississippi, where I grew up, is astonishing in how far it's fallen.

[blues]

Ashville, NC is approaching shithole status, if it hasn't arrived already. I'm hearing it called Trashville often.

Jackson Mississippi, where I grew up, is astonishing in how far it's fallen.

I'm less than an hour from Asheville and only go there when I need service on my 4Runner.

[Beast17]

I intermittently pay attention to Asheville because my Step-Mother-In-Law lives there. She is in her 80's and seems to be oblivious to all the problems. It's interesting because I read a lot of articles online that describe all the problems facing the police department, etc. and the place indeed does sound like a shithole. Nevertheless, neighborhood is everything I guess. She seems very content and doesn't seem to be aware of any of the problems. They haven't affected her yet and hopefully won't in the future.

Political observation deleted...

[Hambo]

Listed in order of high to low violent crime, (I chose this over property crime but you can change the options):


104824




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate

Thanks for validating my Orlando rant.

[mmc45414]

Listed by murder rate per 100,000...
104830

And the Dirty T represents for Arizona. 18th Tucson? Rookie numbers you can do better then that:cool:

That report (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate) only ranked the 100 largest cities, or we woulda been top ten!:
104892

So there will be a periodic news story about how high our murder rate is. But IMO even that is whacky, because what factors in is only residential population is counted. So the fact that few people that live in the Dayton area live in Dayton (~850k MSA, 137k Dayton population), because most of the people not inclined to kill people moved to more pleasant surrounding suburbs and don't count in the ratio. However, when suburbanites venture in to go make a drug deal or a sketchy Marketplace transaction, that hits the statistics. Probably no way to track the dead persons' residency status.

The math says Chicago is a much safer place (barely more than half the Dayton rate...), I say that is probably because they have almost three million residents and that is juking the stats. But pretty sure I will be able to live out my life here without getting kilt by following the Three Stupids Rule.

[blues]

I only posted the charts from the Wiki page in response to LL's comment that most of the shitholes were located within a particular geographic area of the country.

And while I fully agree that the NE is chock full of shitholes, the true shithole city aficionado will not be left high and dry whilst taking his Winnebago for an extended tour of these United States.

Democracy in action.

[Clusterfrack]

Back home in Hobolandia... I had to deal with a batshit crazy hobo at the bagel shop this morning.The guy was doing the tweaker shuffle and ranting about how there are white supremacists and Jews everywhere, and how if he had a gun he would kill them all, and it wasn’t a threat just a fact, and how he doesn't have a gun, but the police almost shot him yesterday. The poor girl behind the counter was on the verge of tears.

[blues]

Back home in Hobolandia... I had to deal with a batshit crazy hobo at the bagel shop this morning.The guy was doing the tweaker shuffle and ranting about how there are white supremacists and Jews everywhere, and how if he had a gun he would kill them all, and it wasn’t a threat just a fact, and how he doesn't have a gun, but the police almost shot him yesterday. The poor girl behind the counter was on the verge of tears.

It's the Jewish white supremacists that you really need to keep an eye on. :rolleyes:

[4RNR]

It's the Jewish white supremacists that you really need to keep an eye on. :rolleyes:Ben Shapiro?

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[blues]

Ben Shapiro?

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

I've only seen him a couple of times and haven't paid attention.

[LittleLebowski]

I would argue that if you take a 50 state tour, you'll find plenty of shithole cities spread throughout the U.S.

(I'd prefer that it weren't so...but I believe that to be the case.)

Wyoming?

[blues]

Wyoming?

There are no cities in WY. ;)

I'm not gonna trash WY. I'm a fan. Never lived there but have traveled the state extensively, as well as backpacked / climbed. If it weren't for the wind and the snow, I might be able to convince the wife to live there.

[4RNR]

I've only seen him a couple of times and haven't paid attention.I was making a joke. I don't listen to him often but enough to know the left calls him a white supremacist

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[Borderland]

There are no cities in WY. ;)

I'm not gonna trash WY. I'm a fan. Never lived there but have traveled the state extensively, as well as backpacked / climbed. If it weren't for the wind and the snow, I might be able to convince the wife to live there.


There are no cities in WY.


Blast zone building codes?

[cheby]

I've only seen him a couple of times and haven't paid attention.

You should. The young guys like him are successfully replacing the entire editorial board of NYT without any significant investments

[cheby]

I ate at a pub full of hipsters.

Having lived in Portland for 25 years, I'd argue that the high concentration of hipsters is the best indication that the city will become a shithole in a near future:)

[Jakus]

Oh yeah. The bus system in Denver is a hard no-go.

I like some of the exurbs (parker, centennial, SE aurora, littleton, etc). Just not terribly affordable.

Also everyone seems to have an incredibly fake ass job that lets them go hiking in the middle of the day.

Went to a concert in downtown Denver a few weeks ago. Had an early dinner then thought we’d walk a couple blocks to the theater. Damn was that the wrong idea. Hadn’t seen than much sidewalk completely taken over by tents there before.

It was funny that all the groups a federal buildings that are clumped together downtown and have nice lawns had exactly zero tents or homeless in general. I suspect if someone comes along and tries to setup a tent in front of a federal court house a very nice federal office comes out and offers to stuff you in the jail inside the federal building quite quickly.

It is apparently possible to prevent this situation if there was the will to do so.

[blues]

You should. The young guys like him are successfully replacing the entire editorial board of NYT without any significant investments

I'm not sure what you're saying...or what I'm supposed to take from this.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

My memories of WY. Stopped at Rock Springs overnight on a cross country drive. Went to a local restaurant. Ordered apple pie. Asked the waitress if she could put a scoop of ice cream on it. She looked at us like we were crazy. Never heard of such a thing, she said: You know, last week, some fella wanted ketchup for his french fries!

OK - turned on the local news, the big story was IR camera footage of guys going into the local trailer part whore house. This was 1977. Maybe things changed.

Of course, in Sacramento once, the big TV news story was a female morgue attendant having sex with the corpses while the other attendants watched. The local Sheriff though the place should be napalmed. Not unreasonable. The best tourist attraction was the state capitol and then the hazelnut factory.

[Colt191145lover]

Wyoming?

I thought Casper was kind of a turd, but then again my father was born there.

[HCountyGuy]

Then our list of potential shithole cities gets pared down to practically nothing and the members of the forum will have nothing to complain about in this thread. I can’t think of any place in this country I’ve ever been in that didn’t have a single redeeming quality. I guess Mogadishu might be a shithole but I’ve never been there so I could be wrong.

You clearly don't get out enough. While not being extensively traveled, even I've driven through some places where I've thought "Bombing this place would be an upgrade".


As for the previous mention of Atlanta in this thread, there's times I've driven through parts and thought to myself "Sherman had the right idea." It does have some nice spots though.

[TGS]

You clearly don't get out enough.

Lol.

[Archer1440]

As for the previous mention of Atlanta in this thread, there's times I've driven through parts and thought to myself "Sherman had the right idea." It does have some nice spots though.

I have “a friend” who never felt quite so happy to have a USP .45 in his pants than when “he” found himself on a MARTA train. Just saying.

[Clusterfrack]

I have “a friend” who never felt quite so happy to have a USP .45 in his pants than when “he” found himself on a MARTA train. Just saying.

Riding MARTA from the airport, I couldn’t help thinking that if it broke down in the wrong place, it would be really bad.

[45dotACP]

A violent crime rate of 2000/100000 per year results in a [1 - (1 - 0.02)^20] = 33% chance of having a violent crime happen to you in 20 years.

I'm not sure how well that assertion holds up, because I have seen quite a few patients who have had more than several violent crimes happen to them in about 20 years.

Case in point: A patient a colleague of mine cared for a while back who was a quadraplegic following a GSW. Previously he was a paraplegic following a GSW, and before that, just a guy who had a GSW.

Some while after he became a quadraplegic, he also suffered a stab wound.


Life is easier when you make friends with people and sometimes I wonder how much of an asshole this guy was to get someone to shoot a dude in a wheelchair, or to stab a dude who could move neither his arms nor his legs.


According to my colleague, he was quite the asshole and she understood why someone would stab him.

Nevertheless. He gets rolled into a room of 20 people and I bet suddenly all the violent crimes per capita are used up on just him.

[Clusterfrack]

I'm not sure how well that assertion holds up, because I have seen quite a few patients who have had more than several violent crimes happen to them in about 20 years.

Case in point: A patient a colleague of mine cared for a while back who was a quadraplegic following a GSW. Previously he was a paraplegic following a GSW, and before that, just a guy who had a GSW.

Some while after he became a quadraplegic, he also suffered a stab wound.


Life is easier when you make friends with people and sometimes I wonder how much of an asshole this guy was to get someone to shoot a dude in a wheelchair, or to stab a dude who could move neither his arms nor his legs.


According to my colleague, he was quite the asshole and she understood why someone would stab him.

Nevertheless. He gets rolled into a room of 20 people and I bet suddenly all the violent crimes per capita are used up on just him.

Yeah, that guy is at least two standard deviations above the mean...

[Crazy Dane]

Ashville, NC is approaching shithole status, if it hasn't arrived already. I'm hearing it called Trashville often.

Jackson Mississippi, where I grew up, is astonishing in how far it's fallen.



I intermittently pay attention to Asheville because my Step-Mother-In-Law lives there. She is in her 80's and seems to be oblivious to all the problems. It's interesting because I read a lot of articles online that describe all the problems facing the police department, etc. and the place indeed does sound like a shithole. Nevertheless, neighborhood is everything I guess. She seems very content and doesn't seem to be aware of any of the problems. They haven't affected her yet and hopefully won't in the future.

Political observation deleted...

Sorry I'm late, I've been on holiday with my feet in the surf and ass in the sand. No electronics other than to check weather and tides for fishing.

I have been a FF/medic in that city since 2005. The first 15 years of my career there I had never used Narcan in the field, now I'm guaranteed to use it at least once a shift. In my first 15 I never saw a GSW and only a couple of "stabbings". I worked 3 GSWs and 2 stabbings last month. I have been aggressively panhandled to the point of going hands on to back the subject up. APD is down 40 to 50 percent of its force. Ambulance response times are increasing and I have waited over 20 minutes to get a bus on scene. The FD is struggling to retain FFs. There are areas where violent crime is absent but the property crimes are through the roof everywhere.

I no longer shop there, I'll travel down to Greenville, SC to do all that.

[Crazy Dane]

I'm less than an hour from Asheville and only go there when I need service on my 4Runner.


Hey, When I had my Tundra I got better service from Brian Easler in Hendersonville, my wife takes her 4runner there too. When Jim Barkley sold out to Fred, that place went down hill.

[blues]

Hey, When I had my Tundra I got better service from Brian Easler in Hendersonville, my wife takes her 4runner there too. When Jim Barkley sold out to Fred, that place went down hill.

That is the truth. I have a good service manager there that I try to take care of...he's like a friend at this point...but yeah, not the same anymore.

[NWshooter]

There are no cities in WY. ;)

I'm not gonna trash WY. I'm a fan. Never lived there but have traveled the state extensively, as well as backpacked / climbed. If it weren't for the wind and the snow, I might be able to convince the wife to live there.

The Netflix series Longmire will get her to move.

Other than Breaking Bad it is my favorite thing they’ve done on Netflix

[NWshooter]

Having lived in Portland for 25 years, I'd argue that the high concentration of hipsters is the best indication that the city will become a shithole in a near future:)

The “future” was 2020.

Portland is a shithole city.

Seattle…..San Francisco….. Los Angeles

All West Coast cities.

Wonder what they all have in common?

[blues]

The Netflix series Longmire will get her to move.

Other than Breaking Bad it is my favorite thing they’ve done on Netflix

She's seen the show...I've both seen the show and read some of the books.

Oh, yeah...and I've taken her to WY on a motorcycle and covered much of the state. She knows the score.

Not moving, though she enjoyed visiting quite a bit. ;)

[Archimagirus]

The Netflix series Longmire will get her to move.

Other than Breaking Bad it is my favorite thing they’ve done on Netflix

Longmire, like Breaking Bad was filmed and produced in New Mexico. So, it should get her to want to go there, not Wyoming, and I would NOT recommend that.

[Caballoflaco]

The “future” was 2020.

Portland is a shithole city.

Seattle…..San Francisco….. Los Angeles

All West Coast cities.

Wonder what they all have in common?

Stupidly high housing prices and rich folks on both sides of the isle who won’t approve new high density housing because nimby?

[NWshooter]

Stupidly high housing prices and rich folks on both sides of the isle who won’t approve new high density housing because nimby?

Yes…..

And what else?

[cheby]

The “future” was 2020.

Portland is a shithole city.

Seattle…..San Francisco….. Los Angeles

All West Coast cities.

Wonder what they all have in common?

I think poverty, crime, homelessness, and even lack of hipsters do not make those places shitholes. They become shitholes when it is impossible to change it. Even if somebody willing to improve the situation gets in charge by some miracle or accident, the citizens of those places would riot because their minds are real shitholes. How else can you explain something like this:

https://komonews.com/news/local/william-tolliver-accused-in-2020-seattle-washington-mass-shooting-gun-violence-electronic-home-monitoring-king-county-kirkland-police-crime-firearm-witness-co-defendant-court-orders

[blues]

I remember lots of poor neighborhoods being clean and bright in years past. It's possible. It's the mindset and the outlook which has changed...for reasons or not.

[cheby]

Stupidly high housing prices and rich folks on both sides of the isle who won’t approve new high density housing because nimby?

Cause and effect is incorrect here. High housing prices are not what drives homelessness. It is actually opposite. Real estate development are suppressed in the cities where law and due process do not work. After all would you invest in real estate in, say, Kabul?

[HJB]

Austin, Texas is a shithole city because if is being overtake by liberals. It's getting just like Dallas, Houston, San Antonio and all of the other Texas cities that are being take over by democrats and homeless drug addicts and lazy liberals.

[NWshooter]

I think poverty, crime, homelessness, and even lack of hipsters do not make those places shitholes. They become shitholes when it is impossible to change it. Even if somebody willing to improve the situation gets in charge by some miracle or accident, the citizens of those places would riot because their minds are real shitholes. How else can you explain something like this:

https://komonews.com/news/local/william-tolliver-accused-in-2020-seattle-washington-mass-shooting-gun-violence-electronic-home-monitoring-king-county-kirkland-police-crime-firearm-witness-co-defendant-court-orders

Crime, people living in tents on the street (I don’t call them homeless as they have plenty of options to have housing but refuse), drugs, and mental illness is what is ruining these once great cities.

The Marxist people in local government ruin it.

Soft ass liberals and conservatives that refuse to see that these people living on the streets is not compassion and that it’s actually killing people is the problem.

Put these people in jail, give them treatment, and then when they come out of prison give them more treatment and life training to make these people whole again.

THAT’S a solution.

Man, let me be governor for one term.

[Lex Luthier]

I remember lots of poor neighborhoods being clean and bright in years past. It's possible. It's the mindset and the outlook which has changed...for reasons or not.

Words of my great grandmother, who spent the majority of her adult life as a sharecropper in Texas:
“ You can be poor, but you don’t have to be dirty.”

[NWshooter]

Words of my great grandmother, who spent the majority of her adult life as a sharecropper in Texas:
“ You can be poor, but you don’t have to be dirty.”

Oh my goodness.

My grandma said the same thing.

My dads family was poor as shit growing up in Poteau, Oklahoma.

[cheby]

This is how they become shitholes:


"Seattle City Council rejects bill that would have criminalized public drug use".

https://komonews.com/news/local/seattle-city-council-city-hill-king-county-prosecuting-attorneys-office-councilmember-legislation-bill-politics-drug-use-public-possession-gross-misdemeanor-vote#

[Coyotesfan97]

This is how they become shitholes:


"Seattle City Council rejects bill that would have criminalized public drug use".

https://komonews.com/news/local/seattle-city-council-city-hill-king-county-prosecuting-attorneys-office-councilmember-legislation-bill-politics-drug-use-public-possession-gross-misdemeanor-vote#

96% voted it as a major setback to revitalization in the poll.

[Totem Polar]

I’ve chronicled my conversations with LEOs from multiple left coast cities in past posts. I’ve told the story of the burglar intervention, and how nobody is coming. For the latest chapter, I am displeased to report that a violent EDP started threatening people in one of chez Totem’s favorite restaurants—including throwing metal bar chairs around, mid-rant. This happened literally right before myself and the Mrs arrived for a late dinner. The barroom manager—who is a friend—was pretty unhappy about the whole event, in particular the fact that the lone front of house server had been in the kitchen on the phone trying crime check, the business line, and especially 911; all went direct to voicemail/messaging, over and over.

This was the moment that an entire restaurant full, in a reasonably affluent part of town, discovered that nobody is coming.

When our buddy got to the part about hitting a voicemail wall, I could feel Mrs T giving me the sideways glance, subtly letting me know in the way that only long-term partners can: “Ok, I get it, you’re not paranoid when you’re always saying that we are on our own, and that the burglar guy wasn’t just a fluke…”

To be fair, I’m sure it gets old hearing me carp on the theme “nobody is coming; better be prepared,” but that doesn’t change the veracity of the statement.

I still love where I live, don’t get me wrong. I’m just disappointed that random portals into the shithole universe seem to be opening up with increasing regularity, mostly courtesy of our city council, with assistance from the state legislature and Governor.

Carry on.

https://media.tenor.com/damu8hbJ19YAAAAi/shrug-emoji.gif

[Coyotesfan97]

105772

One of my favorite stickers.

Thirty Seconds Out (https://thirtysecondsout.com/collections/stickers/products/sticker-no-one-is-coming#judgeme_product_reviews)

[cheby]

Once it becomes a shithole, there is no way back. Just another story...


https://katu.com/news/local/developer-pulls-out-of-portland-after-four-decades-what-does-a-property-owner-do

[Joe in PNG]

Once it becomes a shithole, there is no way back. Just another story...

At least until the society collapses and the next culture builds on the ruins.

[RoyGBiv]

At least until the society collapses and the next culture builds on the ruins.

Like this....

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/vigilantes-haiti-strike-back-gangsters-brutal-street-justice-99822535

[Borderland]

I have a no trespassing sign at the head of our driveway.

It informs people that they are about to enter private property.

It also informs them that they need my permission to be there.

Gross misdemeanor. $1000 or a year in jail. Their call. So far I haven't had to explain it to anyone.

The cities in the PNW, at least on the coast, are shit holes and I try to avoid them.

[Joe in PNG]

Like this....

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/vigilantes-haiti-strike-back-gangsters-brutal-street-justice-99822535

The Defund Idiots really don't grok the fact that the whole point of the criminal justice system is not to protect the people from the criminals. It's not even to protect the criminals from the people.
It's to protect everyone from the worst instincts of society. Due process not only ensures that the right criminal gets caught & punished, but that the innocent don't get lynched.

[Eric_L]

I’ve chronicled my conversations with LEOs from multiple left coast cities in past posts. I’ve told the story of the burglar intervention, and how nobody is coming. For the latest chapter, I am displeased to report that a violent EDP started threatening people in one of chez Totem’s favorite restaurants—including throwing metal bar chairs around, mid-rant. This happened literally right before myself and the Mrs arrived for a late dinner. The barroom manager—who is a friend—was pretty unhappy about the whole event, in particular the fact that the lone front of house server had been in the kitchen on the phone trying crime check, the business line, and especially 911; all went direct to voicemail/messaging, over and over.

This was the moment that an entire restaurant full, in a reasonably affluent part of town, discovered that nobody is coming.

When our buddy got to the part about hitting a voicemail wall, I could feel Mrs T giving me the sideways glance, subtly letting me know in the way that only long-term partners can: “Ok, I get it, you’re not paranoid when you’re always saying that we are on our own, and that the burglar guy wasn’t just a fluke…”

To be fair, I’m sure it gets old hearing me carp on the theme “nobody is coming; better be prepared,” but that doesn’t change the veracity of the statement.

I still love where I live, don’t get me wrong. I’m just disappointed that random portals into the shithole universe seem to be opening up with increasing regularity, mostly courtesy of our city council, with assistance from the state legislature and Governor.

Carry on.

https://media.tenor.com/damu8hbJ19YAAAAi/shrug-emoji.gif

I believe you. But hurt the guy throwing chairs, break a bone, head injury, etc., and those cops will sure take a report and drag the person who hurt them to jail.

[Clusterfrack]

The Defund Idiots really don't grok the fact that the whole point of the criminal justice system is not to protect the people from the criminals. It's not even to protect the criminals from the people.
It's to protect everyone from the worst instincts of society. Due process not only ensures that the right criminal gets caught & punished, but that the innocent don't get lynched.

I am going to start a new movement: Defund the Idiots.

[camel]

The Defund Idiots really don't grok the fact that the whole point of the criminal justice system is not to protect the people from the criminals. It's not even to protect the criminals from the people.
It's to protect everyone from the worst instincts of society. Due process not only ensures that the right criminal gets caught & punished, but that the innocent don't get lynched.

106202

[EMC]

Was Lawton Oklahoma mentioned yet, where are my fellow Artillerymen at? [emoji1787]

[cheby]

I am going to start a new movement: Defund the Idiots.

I think it’s much worse and more complicated than just idiots.

Why Smart People Believe Stupid things.

“ Despite being irrational, wokeism is nevertheless an intelligent worldview. It’s intelligent but not rational because its goal is not objective truth but social signaling, and in pursuing this goal it’s a powerful strategy. …. human intelligence evolved less as a tool for pursuing objective truth than as a tool for pursuing personal well-being, tribal belonging, social status, and sex, and this often required the adoption of what I call “Fashionably Irrational Beliefs” (FIBs), which the brain has come to excel at.”

https://gurwinder.substack.com/p/why-smart-people-hold-stupid-beliefs?utm_source=substack&utm_campaign=post_embed&utm_medium=email

[Clusterfrack]

I think it’s much worse and more complicated than just idiots.

Why Smart People Believe Stupid things.

“ Despite being irrational, wokeism is nevertheless an intelligent worldview. It’s intelligent but not rational because its goal is not objective truth but social signaling, and in pursuing this goal it’s a powerful strategy. …. human intelligence evolved less as a tool for pursuing objective truth than as a tool for pursuing personal well-being, tribal belonging, social status, and sex, and this often required the adoption of what I call “Fashionably Irrational Beliefs” (FIBs), which the brain has come to excel at.”

https://gurwinder.substack.com/p/why-smart-people-hold-stupid-beliefs?utm_source=substack&utm_campaign=post_embed&utm_medium=email

Totally agree. Have a look at this book. It's by far the best thing I've read on the topic--and one of my all time favorite non-fiction books. (FYI it must be read on a color e-reader, like an iPad).
What's Our Problem?: A Self-Help Book for Societies Kindle Edition
by Tim Urban
https://www.amazon.com/Whats-Our-Problem-Self-Help-Societies-ebook/dp/B0BTJCTR58

[1slow]

I cannot remember the author or exact title. It was dealing with the islamic grooming gangs in Europe. Something like " Why do we get Lynchings."

Premise was that, when your wife, daughter, sister or friend is attacked / raped and the authorities cover it up / ignore it etc.... People will seek their own solutions.

Author was not glorifying this. He was just stating that if no help is available / willing that people will choose another path and that this is predictable.


My opinion: it is best if the legal system works well, other solutions do not contribute to good civic order.

[Joe in PNG]

My opinion: it is best if the legal system works well, other solutions do not contribute to good civic order.

Vigilantes and lynch mobs are the immediate effect. Long term, you get tribalism, lawlessness, clannish isolation, loss of individualism, and the sort of long running, obligatory and violent feuds seen in tribal societies like the Balkans.
In this situation, it doesn't matter who gets lynched as long as they belong to the other tribe.

[andre3k]

Austin, Texas is a shithole city because if is being overtake by liberals. It's getting just like Dallas, Houston, San Antonio and all of the other Texas cities that are being take over by democrats and homeless drug addicts and lazy liberals.You mean like this?

Dude looked at all five of us in uniform and commenced to getting his smoke on. We went to lunch as usual knowing that it isn't worth the time and effort to make the arrest in Harris County.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230623/c713370d54ef3fa2e2b247851d9ae866.jpg

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

[Kanye Wyoming]

Wherever this is - shithole city.

1671873834134433794?s=61&t=rz98d1OvQDcPqew2mfLr5A:eek:

[Lex Luthier]

Wherever this is - shithole city.

1671873834134433794?s=61&t=rz98d1OvQDcPqew2mfLr5A:eek:

It is purportedly San Francisco.

I wonder if we will see any federal intervention in the organized theft ring operations?
Fed intervention seems to be the only reason there’s any upper limit on carjackings, automotive theft, and drug gang turf wars in the Twin Cities.

[parishioner]

106286

[jtcarm]

Hmm. Salt Lake City, Boise, Bozeman…

Does Salt Lake City have the goofy street-naming system?

I guess with Apple & Google maps I’d be OK now.

Back in the 90s I’d regularly get lost as hell visiting relatives in Layton & Ogden. You’d call someone to get their address & it would be something like “1601 West 1700 South, just past 1600 North & 1500 East. You can’t miss it!”

Huh?

[EMC]

Does Salt Lake City have the goofy street-naming system?

I guess with Apple & Google maps I’d be OK now.

Back in the 90s I’d regularly get lost as hell visiting relatives in Layton & Ogden. You’d call someone to get their address & it would be something like “1601 West 1700 South, just past 1600 North & 1500 East. You can’t miss it!”

Huh?The good old grid system. You can shoot arty using those coordinates. [emoji1]

[jtcarm]

The good old grid system. You can shoot arty using those coordinates. [emoji1]

I’d like to drop some arty on the designer.

[Joe in PNG]

Back when I was a Dominos guy, I loved Milwaukee's street layout. Named streets went E-W, numbered streets N-S, and went higher as you went further away from the city center.

[Coyotesfan97]

The good old grid system. You can shoot arty using those coordinates. [emoji1]

The city I worked for was a grid system but all the streets were named or numbered. I used to teach recruits that even if you don’t know what street you’re on but can say I’m 1400 E 900 N we’ll find you.

[Totem Polar]

Back when I was a Dominos guy, I loved Milwaukee's street layout. Named streets went E-W, numbered streets N-S, and went higher as you went further away from the city center.

The PacNW is resplendent with alarming mishmashed grids of trees and presidents: cedar, ash, maple, oak; and jefferson, adams, washington, lincoln, etc. Moreover, these streets can on occasion be interspersed with almost anything, eg. Jefferson, Adams, Monroe, fishtrap, Lincoln…

Add in a few historical buildings or old churches creating concentric rings that bisect streets for a half-mile at a time, and it’s no wonder that the nighttime uber eats peeps are on fentanyl.

[Kanye Wyoming]

Reports from Cuba: Danger on the streets: ‘Cuba is no longer safe, not even for the most hardened’

“It’s not enough to have cops who don’t take bribes, or who return lost belongings. We need cops who keep the streets, safe and laws that keep women safe,” he says.

Since February 1 DIARIO DE CUBA has documented more than a dozen murders, mostly involving robberies, not counting feminicides: 38 so far this year, according to independent feminist platforms in Cuba. That is six more than the total number of femicides reported in all of 2022.

No couples in parks

Being out on Havana streets at night, especially in peripheral neighborhoods, is very dangerous. Public lighting is practically non-existent, as are police patrols. Even avenues and roads are immersed in total darkness. Couples have zero intimacy in parks, because no one is willing to risk romantic or erotic indulgences amidst a wave of violence that has the whole country on edge.

“My partner and I, since we have no privacy in any of our homes, took advantage of the neighborhood parks. But that is taking a risk for pleasure, given the times,” says Yailín Caballé, a Reparto Martí resident.

“We prefer to bite the bullet and pay to enjoy a safe rental. We go there and back by taxi, because it’s not safe to walk at night, though the assaults are happening in broad daylight too. My brother-in-law was crippled for life. All for a cell phone.”

https://babalublog.com/2023/06/24/reports-from-cuba-danger-on-the-streets-cuba-is-no-longer-safe-not-even-for-the-most-hardened/

[Rex G]

You mean like this?

Dude looked at all five of us in uniform and commenced to getting his smoke on. We went to lunch as usual knowing that it isn't worth the time and effort to make the arrest in Harris County.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230623/c713370d54ef3fa2e2b247851d9ae866.jpg

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

“Liked” to indicate agreement, not because I like the situation. One of the final straws on this camel’s back, that prompted me to retire from Houston PD, was when I helped a Constable’s sergeant, working his extra job, make a P.I. arrest of a person, who was parked, in a driveway, just short of driving onto Westpark drive. The resulting struggle injured the sergeant, but, he only asked for Resisting, when he phoned the D.A.’s office, rather than asking for Agg Assault. I was not injured, but was certainly sore, having used aging muscles in very unfamiliar ways, while INSIDE the suspect’s car, pushing, while the sergeant was outside, pulling and fighting. Within hours, the D.A.’s officer had dropped the charge to Interfering. What should have been a felony was dropped to a charge not much more serious than the original, pre-struggle charge of Public Intoxication.

This was my first shake-head-and-wonder experience with the kinder, gentler, blue-er Harris County D.A.’s office. If I remember correctly, when I inquired, I got a rather weak excuse that no BWC video had been uploaded. Well, of course not, because the battery was, as usual, dead, by that late in the shift, but the D.A.’s office hinted that there was an ulterior reason that no video evidence had been uploaded.

In hindsight, I should have left in January 2020, rather than January 2018, in order to pay into DROP for another two years. But, to be clear, this experience with the D.A.’s office was not the final straw. Grandson #2 arrived, in December 2017, and, I had injured my one healthy shoulder, cleaning-up after Hurricane Harvey, so, was walking wounded. I needed to either request light duty, or get out. I got out. Houston may not yet be an “S.H.” City, but the only major factor that really keeps us in the area is a desire to be near my wife’s cardiologist, and, thankfully, we live in Bellaire, which, at least, has statistically, amazingly good police and EMS response time. Plus, Bellaire’s EMS is far better than Houston FD’s EMS.

Still, we are within Harris County, where most crimes go unpunished. I would not want to use lethal force, to defend myself, however, in this county. I would be a prize catch for the “justice” system.

[Borderland]

The PacNW is resplendent with alarming mishmashed grids of trees and presidents: cedar, ash, maple, oak; and jefferson, adams, washington, lincoln, etc. Moreover, these streets can on occasion be interspersed with almost anything, eg. Jefferson, Adams, Monroe, fishtrap, Lincoln…

Add in a few historical buildings or old churches creating concentric rings that bisect streets for a half-mile at a time, and it’s no wonder that the nighttime uber eats peeps are on fentanyl.


Jesus (Jefferson, James)
Christ (Cherry, Columbia)
Made (Marion, Madison)
Seattle (Spring, Seneca)
Under (University, Union)
Protest (Pike, Pine)

https://i.ibb.co/SQJg529/seattle-black-white-vector-map-101272234.webp (https://ibb.co/vsDWVbK)

When I first moved to N. Seattle I stayed lost for about a year.

[Lex Luthier]

Jesus (Jefferson, James)
Christ (Cherry, Columbia)
Made (Marion, Madison)
Seattle (Spring, Seneca)
Under (University, Union)
Protest (Pike, Pine)

https://i.ibb.co/SQJg529/seattle-black-white-vector-map-101272234.webp (https://ibb.co/vsDWVbK)

When I first moved to N. Seattle I stayed lost for about a year.

Yep. The nonsensical grid of San Francisco* seemed relatively tame in comparison.

*Planned in NYC by people who had never been there to experience the hills.

[Vista461]

Milwaukee, and the people that make it that way are taking their show to the close in suburbs. So glad I sold my house and moved out of Milwaukee County.

[Evil_Ed]

One example of a huge problem here (https://alphanews.org/auto-theft-its-time-for-a-paradigm-shift/)

Many of the metro PDs are in "smile and wave" mode; the ones that aren't, good on them. The ones that are...I understand and don't blame them. They've been thoroughly defanged at this point.

Never thought I'd say it, but if the various PDs were to turn back the clocks to 1950s-1970s era of policing, I don't think I'd mind or care.

[High Cross]

Smaller city shitholes in my neck of the woods:

Reading, PA. Total shithole.

Harrisburg, PA. State capital and mega shithole.

Newark, NJ. Need I say more? Except there are a few ethnic neighborhoods that are more or less safe and have some kickass restaurants.

Trenton, NJ. Just don’t.

Atlantic City, NJ. Scary, with a nice ocean breeze.

On the other side of the ledger, Pittsburgh is really nice. Bethlehem is charming. Easton used to be a real shithole but has been on the upswing over the past several years.
Newark chiming in here. Massive rebuilding and gentrification going on right now. Rents downtown are competing with NYC right now.

[Evil_Ed]

Newark chiming in here. Massive rebuilding and gentrification going on right now. Rents downtown are competing with NYC right now.

Something about Newark...let me put it this way - from at least the late 70s/early 80s on until now, my parents were so...shaken? ...by Newark that they even refused to fly out of EWR, ever. They wouldn't even come and pick me up whenever I flew in from there; the one and only time I was able to convince one of them to drive me down to drop me off there, they were so shaken by going there that they couldn't figure out the TWO FUCKING TURNS it takes to get there from the NJ Turnpike.

Me, on the other hand, having had a plane strapped to my ass for two years before Y2k and living in north NJ, EWR was a godsend - stupidly easy to get in to, park, and leave/escape from. Easier than dealing with LaGuardia, never mind the mess that was JFK. Cabs had fixed fares out of there, so you could more-or-less budget a cab home if you couldn't drive or didn't plan far enough ahead to get a rental.

They, on the other hand, would and preferred to fly out of either Stewart when that opened to commercial aviation, or they'd rather trudge down to JFK and fly out of there. They felt that getting to/from JFK was easier/better - never mind we lived next to West Point, NY...which, if you look at a map, is a fucking slog and a half to/from JFK but pretty literally a straight shot to EWR, once you get to any of the major highways.

I don't know what the fuck happened in Newark to so drive my parents to steer far away from it, but...whatever it was, it lingered to this day.

[RoyGBiv]

I don't know what the fuck happened in Newark to so drive my parents to steer far away from it, but...whatever it was, it lingered to this day.

For me (1970's - 80's) it was the smell of it from the turnpike. It smelled like "Stay Away"..... "Breathing here can kill you"...

I don't have any qualms about flying through there, however. That was Wife's local airport back when we were dating... No issues other than traffic.

[HeavyDuty]

Something about Newark...let me put it this way - from at least the late 70s/early 80s on until now, my parents were so...shaken? ...by Newark that they even refused to fly out of EWR, ever. They wouldn't even come and pick me up whenever I flew in from there; the one and only time I was able to convince one of them to drive me down to drop me off there, they were so shaken by going there that they couldn't figure out the TWO FUCKING TURNS it takes to get there from the NJ Turnpike.

Me, on the other hand, having had a plane strapped to my ass for two years before Y2k and living in north NJ, EWR was a godsend - stupidly easy to get in to, park, and leave/escape from. Easier than dealing with LaGuardia, never mind the mess that was JFK. Cabs had fixed fares out of there, so you could more-or-less budget a cab home if you couldn't drive or didn't plan far enough ahead to get a rental.

They, on the other hand, would and preferred to fly out of either Stewart when that opened to commercial aviation, or they'd rather trudge down to JFK and fly out of there. They felt that getting to/from JFK was easier/better - never mind we lived next to West Point, NY...which, if you look at a map, is a fucking slog and a half to/from JFK but pretty literally a straight shot to EWR, once you get to any of the major highways.

I don't know what the fuck happened in Newark to so drive my parents to steer far away from it, but...whatever it was, it lingered to this day.

106431

[High Cross]

Something about Newark...let me put it this way - from at least the late 70s/early 80s on until now, my parents were so...shaken? ...by Newark that they even refused to fly out of EWR, ever. They wouldn't even come and pick me up whenever I flew in from there; the one and only time I was able to convince one of them to drive me down to drop me off there, they were so shaken by going there that they couldn't figure out the TWO FUCKING TURNS it takes to get there from the NJ Turnpike.

Me, on the other hand, having had a plane strapped to my ass for two years before Y2k and living in north NJ, EWR was a godsend - stupidly easy to get in to, park, and leave/escape from. Easier than dealing with LaGuardia, never mind the mess that was JFK. Cabs had fixed fares out of there, so you could more-or-less budget a cab home if you couldn't drive or didn't plan far enough ahead to get a rental.

They, on the other hand, would and preferred to fly out of either Stewart when that opened to commercial aviation, or they'd rather trudge down to JFK and fly out of there. They felt that getting to/from JFK was easier/better - never mind we lived next to West Point, NY...which, if you look at a map, is a fucking slog and a half to/from JFK but pretty literally a straight shot to EWR, once you get to any of the major highways.

I don't know what the fuck happened in Newark to so drive my parents to steer far away from it, but...whatever it was, it lingered to this day.

I think I know: https://youtu.be/gC2ObNqHq7E

And this https://youtu.be/AGYh-Pl67aQ

[Evil_Ed]

I think I know: https://youtu.be/gC2ObNqHq7E

And this https://youtu.be/AGYh-Pl67aQ


Honestly could be...I do remember once when we were little kids we went to fly out of Newark and somehow my parents got lost on that drive and we wound up driving all around Newark, now that I think about it - I think this was before the 1/9 had a direct connection to the airport...I mean though even looking at a map of it today, it seems really freaking hard to miss.

[Yung]

(NY Post)
https://nypost.com/2023/06/25/nyc-rules-crack-down-on-coal-wood-fired-pizzerias-must-cut-carbon-emissions-up-to-75/

— must cut carbon emissions up to 75%
By Carl Campanile and Kevin Sheehan
June 25, 2023 6:53pm Updated

Mamma Mia!

Historic Big Apple pizza joints could be forced to dish out mounds of dough under a proposed city edict targeting pollutant-spewing coal-and-wood-fired ovens, The Post has learned.

The New York City Department of Environmental Protection has drafted new rules that would order eateries using the decades-old baking method to slice carbon emissions by up to 75%.

“All New Yorkers deserve to breathe healthy air and wood and coal-fired stoves are among the largest contributors of harmful pollutants in neighborhoods with poor air quality,” DEP spokesman Ted Timbers said in a statement Sunday. “This common-sense rule, developed with restaurant and environmental justice groups, requires a professional review of whether installing emission controls is feasible.”

---

[Clusterfrack]

This txt came from a friend today:

The other day I’m at Home Depot in the parking lot walking to the door. There’s some weird homeless guy ranting and raving on the path to the door so I went around him and ended up behind some woman who was keeping her distance from the guy. I was literally right behind her when I zipped up my jacket to keep my arms free in case the guy did something weird. As soon as she hears this loud zziippp from behind she goes, “uh-uh, hell no!” and turns around. she looked like she was having a heart attack until she saw me and realized I didn’t have my dick hanging out of my pants or something.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

In Fred Meyer's (hey Oregonians) with my daughter who is 5. We are looking at the kid's magazines in the mag rack. There is a woman to my side. I say to my kid - Give me a kiss baby! The women whirls in fighting form. Seems me holding my little girl and is chagrined.

[Robert Mitchum]

(NY Post)
https://nypost.com/2023/06/25/nyc-rules-crack-down-on-coal-wood-fired-pizzerias-must-cut-carbon-emissions-up-to-75/


https://youtu.be/scO0X8nIitw

[RevolverRob]

Shithole Cities Travel Edition:

Baltimore

--

I am not sure why anyone lives in Maryland willingly. I assume sane people who live here, do so because career advancement tethers them here.

ETA: I'm coming back from a trip to Texas. Saw family in Dallas, had a conference in San Antonio, on my way down, stopped in Austin.

Christ Austin is a shithole these days. I stopped at a Starbucks to get a latte and there was a homeless guy in the store sitting at a table, muttering something about the vagaries of invisibility. The staff in the store were just going about their day - indicating a clear acceptance of this as "normal". Dude set off my sketch alarm so hard I turned around and walked out of the store. This particular Starbucks was one my college roommate worked in and managed for a while it was always a clean and well managed store.

When people stop taking pride in things - they go to shit so fast.

[TGS]

Shithole Cities Travel Edition:

Baltimore

--

I am not sure why anyone lives in Maryland willingly. I assume sane people who live here, do so because career advancement tethers them here.

Why?

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Here's an issue - the main library. When I was a kid, I used to like to go to the Grand Army Plaza library, the main library in Brooklyn. Did school paper research, checked out books. Then I walked home - and got mugged at knife point.

The San Antonio Main library was a nice new building, had a good collection - fun to browse. Then it filled with homeless sitting on almost every sofa or chair, sleeping, drugged out. Didn't go there anymore - if my kid had a school project, I took her.

Now, with the on demand computer library book request systems, the main libraries are just becoming homeless shelters.

[RevolverRob]

Why?

Are you asking why I think Baltimore sucks or why I wonder why people live in Maryland?

The former seems self explanatory.

The latter, because the gun laws suck, taxes are high, median income is high compared to middle states, but low for the east coast, economy of Maryland is not particularly diverse, limiting economic opportunity, particularly among the lower economic classes.

Maryland does rank pretty well in terms of healthcare access and that is a big positive for it.

But I mean really the answer is: Old Bay.

[TGS]

Are you asking why I think Baltimore sucks or why I wonder why people live in Maryland?

The former seems self explanatory.

The latter, because the gun laws suck, taxes are high, median income is high compared to middle states, but low for the east coast, economy of Maryland is not particularly diverse, limiting economic opportunity, particularly among the lower economic classes.

Maryland does rank pretty well in terms of healthcare access and that is a big positive for it.

But I mean really the answer is: Old Bay.

Sorry, the latter regarding Maryland in general. As long as guns aren't something that are top of the agenda (newsflash for echo chambers: most americans don't care), then Maryland can be a decently nice place to live.

As for limited economic opportunities....yeah, I mean, no shit, it's a very small state that is either farmland, Chesapeake swamps, or Appalachia all straddling the DC-Baltimore corridor. If it wasn't for DC/Baltimore, the entire state would basically be middle america. Lots of nice neighborhoods and towns to live in, regardless.

[Caballoflaco]

When you move your family to Maryland.

https://youtu.be/lcyUU0sq2Zg

[Clusterfrack]

Multnomah County confirms it will distribute foil and straws for fentanyl smoking

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/multnomah-county-fentanyl-foil-straws-harm-reduction/283-97e5091d-566b-4086-9251-6e1190a4c638

[Totem Polar]

Multnomah County confirms it will distribute foil and straws for fentanyl smoking

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/multnomah-county-fentanyl-foil-straws-harm-reduction/283-97e5091d-566b-4086-9251-6e1190a4c638

https://i.etsystatic.com/7545759/r/il/0b3449/1736685335/il_1588xN.1736685335_ld3z.jpg

[Half Moon]

Multnomah County confirms it will distribute foil and straws for fentanyl smoking

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/multnomah-county-fentanyl-foil-straws-harm-reduction/283-97e5091d-566b-4086-9251-6e1190a4c638

But are they environmentally friendly paper straws? And, for that matter, where are the free Franklins for coke-heads? Or are they culturally biased against cocaine addiction?

(Other than flip comments this one just leaves me speechless. I understand the idea of clean needles but this...)

[Cookie Monster]

Multnomah County confirms it will distribute foil and straws for fentanyl smoking

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/multnomah-county-fentanyl-foil-straws-harm-reduction/283-97e5091d-566b-4086-9251-6e1190a4c638

It’s pretty crazy where we are.

We got Elon and Zuck going in on a cage fight, Biden at 140 years old running from re-election, we got social media and smart phones doing crazy unknown things, and unlimited access to any kind of consumer good and porn.

[mmc45414]

If it wasn't for DC/Baltimore, the entire state would basically be middle America. Lots of nice neighborhoods and towns to live in, regardless.
Like Illinois, like Michigan, many others.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Same here. Urban problems - outside of them, pretty nice. Unfortunately, in San Antonio, we lived outside of them until the city came roaring over us with all those problems. Our small street became one of the most dangerous in terms of accidents. New families, bad trucks, shootings - so NYS has problems but the old home area and a small town with one of the lowest crime rates in the USA.

We used to live in Washington County OR, buying a decent house was so expensive. Got a job in TX, moved. The destruction of good urban jobs for the less economically well off people in the cities destroyed so many of them.

[cheby]

When it becomes a shithole, there’s no easy way out.

https://katu.com/news/city-in-crisis/portland-homeowner-threatens-to-sue-city-over-homeless-camps-claims-he-cant-sell-house-leave#

Portland homeowner threatens to sue city over homeless camps, claims he can't sell house & leave

[Glenn E. Meyer]

More Oregon - decriminalizing drugs sounded good but didn't work out as expected: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2023/07/oregon-drug-decriminalization-results-overdoses/674733/

[Joe in PNG]

The really fun thing is when the effects of Illinois' No Bail policy hits.

"Bad Luck" strikes again:


“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

This is known as "bad luck.”
― Robert Heinlein

[DDTSGM]

More Oregon - decriminalizing drugs sounded good but didn't work out as expected: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2023/07/oregon-drug-decriminalization-results-overdoses/674733/

Sage words: “If you take away the criminal-justice system as a pathway that gets people into treatment, you need to think about what is going to replace it.” (from the article)

[mmc45414]

The destruction of good urban jobs for the less economically well off people in the cities destroyed so many of them.
This kinda describes the Dayton OH area. Many people lived here because of GM and the buttload of UAW jobs. Lots of opportunity with supporting businesses also, skilled and unskilled. But if you could make your way into the union a person could make a living and hate it the rest of their life. Still lots of opportunity here (Univ of Day, WPAFB), but not as much high paying opportunity for unskilled workers. So now we have people that are from here and stayed here but are 2-3 generations from the people that made the house payments and bought the cars by going in on third shift and shooting the screws.

And it wasn't just GM, the city continuously exploited the income from many other companies until they got recruited away (NCR is a prime example) or otherwise tanked. This local museum (https://www.daytonhistory.org/visit/things-to-see-do/heritage-center-of-dayton-manufacturing-entrepreneurship/) has a fantastic display highlighting all of the many companies that developed many products here, but only a couple of them are still operating here.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Happened in Niagara Falls, city lost much of its industry. Now that industry were lethal level polluters, so there's that but the city is basically kaput. Decent burbs from the spread of the Buffalo area but usual urban crime and slums.

A report about my birthplace, Brooklyn, NY.

https://www.innovatingjustice.org/publications/gun-violence-brooklyn

Why the gun carrying and violence?


Predominantly young Black men, ages 15 to 24, these gun-carriers talked about experiencing, witnessing, and being threatened with violence at shocking rates. Very few had access to long-term, stable jobs, with most relying on the underground economy to make ends meet. Afraid and distrustful of police, and with few other means to ensure their safety, many young people turned to gun-carrying for self-preservation. For most youth, fear for their own lives and the lives of their families outweighed concerns about going to jail.

I argue with my economist, conservative friend about stable, good jobs and he can't get beyond companies have to manage stock prices as paramount. Destroying communities is irrelevant. Trying to be competitive in the USA is NOT an option if it doesn't maximize profit as much as possible. A good profit here is bad business compared to more overseas.

[mmc45414]

Trying to be competitive in the USA is NOT an option if it doesn't maximize profit as much as possible. A good profit here is bad business compared to more overseas.
This also comes from two directions, and here the core city has been pretty (inadvertently) successful in pushing employers out to suburbs where the decision makers are already living anyway. I probably painted a too bleak picture with my last post, there are some major employers remaining in the area, but with the exception of the university they are mostly in the suburbs, most of the suburbs do not have a city income tax. Also the major employer in the area is the base, I think they are over 35k between active duty, employees, and contractors, not counting the many companies that surround the base. And UD has continued to grow, including their research group that took over the vacated NCR world HQ, and that is within the city limits. And the UDRI has attracted new facilities from GE Aircraft and Copeland, but these do not employ many/any unskilled people.

Net result is the tax base has moved, and the core city suffers from not enough LE and an undesirable school district, so the people that live there are mostly those that cannot afford to live elsewhere, and do not contribute all that much to the tax base, and those folks tend to use up more LE resources. But there are a few areas that are attracting more affluent residents, especially near the downtown entertainment venues. And rising housing costs in the burbs are making some of the less desirable neighborhoods a bit more desirable, but elevating costs at the same time. But crime will undo all of any gains. One of my closest friends still lives in a little nicer neighborhood than the one we moved out of us, and for the most part has had a nice life there without too many problems. But in the past few weeks three cars on his street were stolen and another trashed in an attempt to. One neighbor's cameras got enough of an image to identify them as punk juvies, so you know if they get caught they will suffer all the consequences of jack shit. He was asking me about less-lethal shotgun shells, I sent him home with a can of Sabre Red.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Our nice neighborhood in San Antonio started to decline. It was out towards the country a touch. Quiet area, not to much traffic. Then houses were sold and we started to get the trash cars in the driveways, with folks working on them, running them early in the morning loudly. One house became a party house, another the parents moved and let the young son take over, with folks in and out at all hours. The party house generated a shooting. The road to the neighborhood became so traffic clogged as to make commuting time a horror and accident prone. The freeway became a death trap. I know as I almost bought it when a nonattending driver plowed into the car in back of me at full speed, we were stopped on the freeway - a common occurrence. I still suffer pain from that which is basically unfixable surgically. The local malls started to attract shootings from gangs and cartels.

So we moved (NYS bad place, blah, blah, however, Bruen screwed us while Clarence fishes). One of the lowest crime rates in the country.

I've heard the less than lethal buckshot story before, folks don't just understand. Sigh. OC better option, I agree.

[luckyman]

…

So we moved (NYS bad place, blah, blah, however, Bruen screwed us while Clarence fishes). One of the lowest crime rates in the country.

….

You know Glen, we hear you rail against Clarence and Bruen multiple times a week, but I’m not sure I’ve ever heard you rail against the actual politicians who actually pushed through the damn laws! It sure would be nice to hear you complain about them for a change. Who was it that actually proposed the laws anyway, and how did those laws get enough votes to pass? Is it possible that NYS really is a “bad place” (not due to any fault of your local area, I fully realize) and you didn’t evaluate the risks appropriately when you chose to move there?

[Glenn E. Meyer]

A reasonable point. Let me expand on it. While not visible here I have written extensively about the problems with the CCIA to Gov. Hochul from the time it was being passed to the present day. I went through the practical and constitutional problems in detail. Also, to the relevant state and Federal legislatures. I get the usual respones that you might predict.

I have also written letters to the local town papers and gotten them published. I wrote a detail piece on the CCIA to the major Buffalo newspaper. A lower level editor said it was very well done on a factual and intellectual level. He was passing it on the higher editor for an op-ed. Surprise, it went nowhere.

I have had a consistent commentary on the CCIA and other firearms rights issues to op-eds or articles in the NY Times, and WAPO. Many have been published in their commentaries.

None of these complain about Samuel Alito and Clarence Thomas. They are about the CCIA and pro RKBA issues in general.

Thus, that's where I put my effort about the Gov. and the laws. Just saying they stink here are a given.

Now - why just the anger at Scotus. It is frustrating that we lost reasonable carry rights. While a pain to get, the permit itself was a pretty good one. The course at that time was a couple of ours, the references were a pain but my neighbors, gun folks came through. The sheriff's interview was good as I had a solid background in training and competition.

However, the big issues:

1. It was known (or so I am told, for what it is worth) that if something like Bruen passed (which had to goal of freeing up NYS permits in counties that used the reason for carry questions to deny a permit) the state would eliminate or castrate current carry utility. Cuomo said as much. It's clear the CCIA was written and ready for Bruen. The litigants seem to have been told this. Was it correct to proceed? Losing our carry rights for hypothetical years to recover them, if at all - worth it? The results in other states are irrelevant to me.

The protections in Bruen for carry were not well thought out, another issue I have to pick with Scotus. They were out foxed.

2. The biggest issue: The lower courts issued TROs that would have put the CCIA on hold until it was adjudicated up to Scotus, it was presumed. The TROs were based on the lower courts' views that the provisions were clearly unconstitutional. A win! However, the 2nd Circuit (a clearly antigun court) voided them.

Emergency relief was asked of Scotus and was denied. All we got was a statement from Samuel and Clarence, saying that if the 2nd Circuit doesn't deal with the TRO appeal (not even the law itself), we got our eye out and get back to us. So far it's been crickets from the 2nd Circuit and no one thinks they will find for gun rights. That will start another endless loop of the lower courts to them, to the 2nd Circuit, then maybe to Scotus if they actually would take the case - with their year long process.

Since the CCIA is clearly (in my not a lawyer opinon) unconstitutional as the lower courts said, I see no reason for them not to have granted the TROs. Thus Scotus had the power to given back the rights and let the state prove why we didn't deserve them. Instead they chose to let the rights be denied and the citizens having to prove why they should be given back. I know all the reasons for not supporting the TROs and without going over them yet again - they are BS.

That they screwed up somewhat in Bruen, but didn't leap into to fixing it is the source of my displeasure. I vent about Hochul elsewhere.

I moved here specifically for family reasons, which somethings trump gun rights but recall while the gun rights were stricter on mags and AWBs but workable. I could carry a G26 and have a Mini-14 and Ruger PCC. 10 rounds - not optimal but workable. If it were a total ban, maybe no move - tough choice;

[luckyman]

A reasonable point. Let me expand on it. While not visible here I have written extensively about the problems with the CCIA to Gov. Hochul from the time it was being passed to the present day. I went through the practical and constitutional problems in detail. Also, to the relevant state and Federal legislatures. I get the usual respones that you might predict.

I have also written letters to the local town papers and gotten them published. I wrote a detail piece on the CCIA to the major Buffalo newspaper. A lower level editor said it was very well done on a factual and intellectual level. He was passing it on the higher editor for an op-ed. Surprise, it went nowhere.

I have had a consistent commentary on the CCIA and other firearms rights issues to op-eds or articles in the NY Times, and WAPO. Many have been published in their commentaries.

None of these complain about Samuel Alito and Clarence Thomas. They are about the CCIA and pro RKBA issues in general.

Thus, that's where I put my effort about the Gov. and the laws. Just saying they stink here are a given.

Now - why just the anger at Scotus. It is frustrating that we lost reasonable carry rights. While a pain to get, the permit itself was a pretty good one. The course at that time was a couple of ours, the references were a pain but my neighbors, gun folks came through. The sheriff's interview was good as I had a solid background in training and competition.

However, the big issues:

1. It was known (or so I am told, for what it is worth) that if something like Bruen passed (which had to goal of freeing up NYS permits in counties that used the reason for carry questions to deny a permit) the state would eliminate or castrate current carry utility. Cuomo said as much. It's clear the CCIA was written and ready for Bruen. The litigants seem to have been told this. Was it correct to proceed? Losing our carry rights for hypothetical years to recover them, if at all - worth it? The results in other states are irrelevant to me.

The protections in Bruen for carry were not well thought out, another issue I have to pick with Scotus. They were out foxed.

2. The biggest issue: The lower courts issued TROs that would have put the CCIA on hold until it was adjudicated up to Scotus, it was presumed. The TROs were based on the lower courts' views that the provisions were clearly unconstitutional. A win! However, the 2nd Circuit (a clearly antigun court) voided them.

Emergency relief was asked of Scotus and was denied. All we got was a statement from Samuel and Clarence, saying that if the 2nd Circuit doesn't deal with the TRO appeal (not even the law itself), we got our eye out and get back to us. So far it's been crickets from the 2nd Circuit and no one thinks they will find for gun rights. That will start another endless loop of the lower courts to them, to the 2nd Circuit, then maybe to Scotus if they actually would take the case - with their year long process.

Since the CCIA is clearly (in my not a lawyer opinon) unconstitutional as the lower courts said, I see no reason for them not to have granted the TROs. Thus Scotus had the power to given back the rights and let the state prove why we didn't deserve them. Instead they chose to let the rights be denied and the citizens having to prove why they should be given back. I know all the reasons for not supporting the TROs and without going over them yet again - they are BS.

That they screwed up somewhat in Bruen, but didn't leap into to fixing it is the source of my displeasure. I vent about Hochul elsewhere.

I moved here specifically for family reasons, which somethings trump gun rights but recall while the gun rights were stricter on mags and AWBs but workable. I could carry a G26 and have a Mini-14 and Ruger PCC. 10 rounds - not optimal but workable. If it were a total ban, maybe no move - tough choice;

I hear ya…. I had that choice 2 years ago. There are plenty of really nice places in California, that would have been closer to my kids and grandkids, whose county stances on issuing CCW permits are fine.

But there was no way I was staying in California with the potential for the state to look at NY and say “hold my beer and watch this”. And it’s not just 2A, from my perspective a population willing to do this is willing to do other things I don’t agree with. And of course the high CA tax situation factored in also.

If I have a fear now, it’s that Nevada will get overrun with liberal Californians.

[cheby]

4 shot during illegal street racing event in Capitol Hill (Seattle) early Sunday morning.

"According to police, the shooting took place during an illegal street racing event. Police responded to reports of a large crowd and vehicles driving recklessly at the intersection of Broadway and E Pike Street shortly before 1:30 a.m.
There was resistance when officers attempted to disperse the crowd, so police stayed in the area to respond to life-safety events.
Gunfire was heard a little before 4 a.m."

https://komonews.com/news/local/4-people-shot-on-capitol-hill-in-seattle-sunday-morning#

So the police came to the illegal street racing event around 1:30 a.m. and did nothing till 4AM when some people got shot!

[Borderland]

This kinda describes the Dayton OH area. Many people lived here because of GM and the buttload of UAW jobs. Lots of opportunity with supporting businesses also, skilled and unskilled. But if you could make your way into the union a person could make a living and hate it the rest of their life. Still lots of opportunity here (Univ of Day, WPAFB), but not as much high paying opportunity for unskilled workers. So now we have people that are from here and stayed here but are 2-3 generations from the people that made the house payments and bought the cars by going in on third shift and shooting the screws.

And it wasn't just GM, the city continuously exploited the income from many other companies until they got recruited away (NCR is a prime example) or otherwise tanked. This local museum (https://www.daytonhistory.org/visit/things-to-see-do/heritage-center-of-dayton-manufacturing-entrepreneurship/) has a fantastic display highlighting all of the many companies that developed many products here, but only a couple of them are still operating here.

A relative of mine lives near Dayton and works at WPAFB. His wife works there also. They're both fed employees. As you say, for people with good jobs it's not a bad place to live. They purchased a house about 12 years ago for less than half of what that house would cost here. They like raising their kids there. I don't think they go into Dayton very often.

[Borderland]

4 shot during illegal street racing event in Capitol Hill (Seattle) early Sunday morning.

"According to police, the shooting took place during an illegal street racing event. Police responded to reports of a large crowd and vehicles driving recklessly at the intersection of Broadway and E Pike Street shortly before 1:30 a.m.
There was resistance when officers attempted to disperse the crowd, so police stayed in the area to respond to life-safety events.
Gunfire was heard a little before 4 a.m."

https://komonews.com/news/local/4-people-shot-on-capitol-hill-in-seattle-sunday-morning#

So the police came to the illegal street racing event around 1:30 a.m. and did nothing till 4AM when some people got shot!

They don't want another CHOP incident. ;)

[Rex G]

4 shot during illegal street racing event in Capitol Hill (Seattle) early Sunday morning.

"According to police, the shooting took place during an illegal street racing event. Police responded to reports of a large crowd and vehicles driving recklessly at the intersection of Broadway and E Pike Street shortly before 1:30 a.m.
There was resistance when officers attempted to disperse the crowd, so police stayed in the area to respond to life-safety events.
Gunfire was heard a little before 4 a.m."

https://komonews.com/news/local/4-people-shot-on-capitol-hill-in-seattle-sunday-morning#

So the police came to the illegal street racing event around 1:30 a.m. and did nothing till 4AM when some people got shot!

If your question was not rhetorical, I will simply point out the “resistance” part. Just leaving it at that, without comment.

I have been out of LEO-ing for 5+ years, after 33+ years of service; big-city patrol. I have no idea what policing is really like, in a post-2020 world.

[Borderland]

I hear ya…. I had that choice 2 years ago. There are plenty of really nice places in California, that would have been closer to my kids and grandkids, whose county stances on issuing CCW permits are fine.

But there was no way I was staying in California with the potential for the state to look at NY and say “hold my beer and watch this”. And it’s not just 2A, from my perspective a population willing to do this is willing to do other things I don’t agree with. And of course the high CA tax situation factored in also.

If I have a fear now, it’s that Nevada will get overrun with liberal Californians.

I was in Carson City a few years ago. I thought it was a great little town. LV seems to be getting yuge with people moving there from CA. Maybe this last heat wave will keep a few of them away but I wouldn't bet on it. ;)

[mmc45414]

They purchased a house about 12 years ago for less than half of what that house would cost here.
And they probably bought in one of the most expensive areas in the community. Sometimes I am just stunned when I realize how spoiled I am by our property values.


I don't think they go into Dayton very often.
Most people from the suburbs don't/won't. Twenty years ago my wife took over the business she owns that is in the city. After living my whole life here and especially from working for her for seven years (much installation and delivery in the city), I am pretty familiar with the area and the various segments of the city. But some of my friends that are lifelong suburbanites will not go into the city for anything they absolutely do not have to go for, like the courthouse or federal building, or maybe for a baseball game. This area is the epitome of sprawl. Meanwhile there are spectacular old residential structures that were majestic but are just rotting away (or burned down by squatters or arson) because of where they are sitting.

[cheby]

If your question was not rhetorical, I will simply point out the “resistance” part. Just leaving it at that, without comment.

I have been out of LEO-ing for 5+ years, after 33+ years of service; big-city patrol. I have no idea what policing is really like, in a post-2020 world.

Well the topic of this thread is shithole cities. What makes a place a shithole is not crime or lack of hipsters - it’s relatively easy to fix. What makes it a third world shithole is a collapse of institutions such as legal system and government services in general. That is nearly impossible to fix and that is what we have in places like Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, and so on.

[Crazy Dane]

From my last 2 shifts, quadruple overdose that used up our 6 doses narcan that we carry on the rig and "sharing of BVMs" until we got a EMS supervisor on scene. you get a breath and then you get a breath ew... All 4 revived with judicious amounts of narcan and they walked away AMA. Police can't arrest because of SAFE laws.

Dispatched to a GSW subject with a knife and apparent GSW to the leg attempting to assault people. Dont know the full outcome, we were redirected to a structure fire(multiple trucks were dispatched to the GSW). Chief said dude was in bad shape medical wise by the time subject was detained and got to treatment.


I posted the above because the only 2 people that got excited about any of this was the 2 rookies on the back of my truck(less than 2 months on the line). Anyone else was like " fuck, this bullshit again?" I don't think I've had a shift where my truck hasn't an OD call and GSW somewhere in the city. Single patient ODs are even remarkable anymore. I can't speak for the other 2 shifts but those calls are trending...

[Caballoflaco]

From my last 2 shifts, quadruple overdose that used up our 6 doses narcan that we carry on the rig and "sharing of BVMs" until we got a EMS supervisor on scene. you get a breath and then you get a breath ew... All 4 revived with judicious amounts of narcan and they walked away AMA. Police can't arrest because of SAFE laws.

Dispatched to a GSW subject with a knife and apparent GSW to the leg attempting to assault people. Dont know the full outcome, we were redirected to a structure fire(multiple trucks were dispatched to the GSW). Chief said dude was in bad shape medical wise by the time subject was detained and got to treatment.


I posted the above because the only 2 people that got excited about any of this was the 2 rookies on the back of my truck(less than 2 months on the line). Anyone else was like " fuck, this bullshit again?" I don't think I've had a shift where my truck hasn't an OD call and GSW somewhere in the city. Single patient ODs are even remarkable anymore. I can't speak for the other 2 shifts but those calls are trending...

I think the growth in Disease of despair deaths over the last decade is one of the most concerning trends in society for me. And right now if it wasn’t hard drugs I think it would be shit like alcohol or huffing paint and gas or any of the other ways people use to temporarily escape what they see as a society that they don’t want to participate in for whatever reason.

[G19Fan]

I think the growth in Disease of despair deaths over the last decade is one of the most concerning trends in society for me. And right now if it wasn’t hard drugs I think it would be shit like alcohol or huffing paint and gas or any of the other ways people use to temporarily escape what they see as a society that they don’t want to participate in for whatever reason.

This is spot on. The more people tune out of society the more our society goes downhill.

As a whole isolation, lack of community and online lifestyle are not helping

[Coyotesfan97]

Texas Worst State to Live/Work (https://www.statesman.com/story/news/local/2023/07/18/texas-worst-places-states-to-live-work-in-america-cnbc-business/70421581007/)

Texas has received the number one spot on a not-so-pleasant list: The top ten worst places in America to live and work in 2023.

While Texas landed at number six on CNBC's yearly America's Top States for Business study, the state scored significantly low in one category: Life, Health & Inclusion. Factors in this category include:

crime rates
environmental quality
health care
quality and availability of childcare
inclusiveness in state laws such as reproductive rights, protections against discrimination and voting rights
Texas received 53 out of 350 points for its 2023 Life, Health & Inclusion score, giving it an F in its Top States grade and the lowest nationwide, securing its number one spot on the list


My wife was reading me this article and I was just laughing. When they said inclusion was part of it I rolled on the floor. Oh no Texas is horrible! Stay out!

[Totem Polar]

What makes it a third world shithole is a collapse of institutions such as legal system and government services in general. That is nearly impossible to fix and that is what we have in places like Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, and so on.

It’s not impossible to fix, but it does require wholesale turning over of city councils, mayoral offices, and possibly a DA.

These types of scenarios are not just theoretical. Yesterday, I’m on my way downtown for work, and I pass a couple of permanent car residents, with attendant hangers-on in my neighborhood next to the park. I texted my wife—who was doing yardwork—to give her a heads up.

Of course, nothing came of it, and most times nothing will. But circumstances dictate that I *have* to have a plan B in mind: I have verified, on 3 separate occasions, that calling 911 will likely do fuck all. So that means dealing with anything that I might hypothetically have to deal with will be, #1, all on me, and #2 will be all on me in the current victimhood political climate. That’s an uneasy truce with the current zeitgeist of my city, and it’s a city that’s still better off than a couple of coastal cities I could name. Sobering. Very sobering.

[G19Fan]

Texas Worst State to Live/Work (https://www.statesman.com/story/news/local/2023/07/18/texas-worst-places-states-to-live-work-in-america-cnbc-business/70421581007/)

Texas has received the number one spot on a not-so-pleasant list: The top ten worst places in America to live and work in 2023.

While Texas landed at number six on CNBC's yearly America's Top States for Business study, the state scored significantly low in one category: Life, Health & Inclusion. Factors in this category include:

crime rates
environmental quality
health care
quality and availability of childcare
inclusiveness in state laws such as reproductive rights, protections against discrimination and voting rights
Texas received 53 out of 350 points for its 2023 Life, Health & Inclusion score, giving it an F in its Top States grade and the lowest nationwide, securing its number one spot on the list


My wife was reading me this article and I was just laughing. When they said inclusion was part of it I rolled on the floor. Oh no Texas is horrible! Stay out!

We literally had same reaction to this lol

[luckyman]

We literally had same reaction to this lol

Same with me too when I read it. To me they had the polarity reversed.

ETA I say this as the proud dad of a wonderful woman who is getting married to another woman next month.

[Borderland]

Texas Worst State to Live/Work (https://www.statesman.com/story/news/local/2023/07/18/texas-worst-places-states-to-live-work-in-america-cnbc-business/70421581007/)

Texas has received the number one spot on a not-so-pleasant list: The top ten worst places in America to live and work in 2023.

While Texas landed at number six on CNBC's yearly America's Top States for Business study, the state scored significantly low in one category: Life, Health & Inclusion. Factors in this category include:

crime rates
environmental quality
health care
quality and availability of childcare
inclusiveness in state laws such as reproductive rights, protections against discrimination and voting rights
Texas received 53 out of 350 points for its 2023 Life, Health & Inclusion score, giving it an F in its Top States grade and the lowest nationwide, securing its number one spot on the list


My wife was reading me this article and I was just laughing. When they said inclusion was part of it I rolled on the floor. Oh no Texas is horrible! Stay out!

I knew there was some reason I left TX in 1971 and never went back. ;)

[Coyotesfan97]

I had to go back and watch the Babylon Bee series Californians Move to Texas. :cool:

[G19Fan]

Same with me too when I read it. To me they had the polarity reversed.

ETA I say this as the proud dad of a wonderful woman who is getting married to another woman next month.

Yup marry who you want. Gov should stay out of bedroom.

Gov should make sure crime is prosecuted and society functions though

[DDTSGM]

I think the growth in Disease of despair deaths over the last decade is one of the most concerning trends in society for me. And right now if it wasn’t hard drugs I think it would be shit like alcohol or huffing paint and gas or any of the other ways people use to temporarily escape what they see as a society that they don’t want to participate in for whatever reason.


This is spot on. The more people tune out of society the more our society goes downhill.

As a whole isolation, lack of community and online lifestyle are not helping

I'd add one thing. I believe there are a lot of young folks looking at things and not thinking that they don't want to participate, but, instead realizing they there is little chance they will be able to participate in a self-actualizing way.

I related this story once in a thread somewhere in which a guy was pontificating about being a self-made man and anyone can grow up to be President: I am generally curious, and I hope caring, about folks I see. While not a particularly strong conversationalist, I do enjoy talking with random folks that I meet while out and about. One day I'm trucking through the Atlanta Airport and decide to get a burger. I walk up to the counter and see a young black guy, nametag says 'Josh.' 'What's good today?' Nothing back but a shrug so I order a burger and a coke. As I pay I try again 'How you doing today?' Clearly not wanting to talk, the kid looks at me mumbles 'I'm here.' At that moment I understood him to be saying 'this is it, life ain't getting no better' and it saddened me to think there wasn't anything I could say or do to help in the moment.

I think there are a lot of 'Josh's' out there, they may want to participate, but they see a life where they have little choice but taking what's available, what they can get, not what they want.

I think that's a different kind of despair.

[randyho]

This kinda describes the Dayton OH area. Many people lived here because of GM and the buttload of UAW jobs. Lots of opportunity with supporting businesses also, skilled and unskilled. But if you could make your way into the union a person could make a living and hate it the rest of their life. Still lots of opportunity here (Univ of Day, WPAFB), but not as much high paying opportunity for unskilled workers. So now we have people that are from here and stayed here but are 2-3 generations from the people that made the house payments and bought the cars by going in on third shift and shooting the screws.

And it wasn't just GM, the city continuously exploited the income from many other companies until they got recruited away (NCR is a prime example) or otherwise tanked. This local museum (https://www.daytonhistory.org/visit/things-to-see-do/heritage-center-of-dayton-manufacturing-entrepreneurship/) has a fantastic display highlighting all of the many companies that developed many products here, but only a couple of them are still operating here.
Dad worked at NCR in Dayton. Spent many evenings at old river, the park NCR had set up for the company's families. GM, Frigidaire, Dayton Tire and Rubber, Wonderbread, and Wright Pat along with NCR were the standout employers.

Then, NCR started sending people to Chicago for weeks at a time, they started letting people go w/o any notice. The place changed. Back toward the rest of the family in VA and MD we came. Been here ever since. The comment regarding MD being middle America with the parasites of DC and Baltimore and parts of Annapolis dragging it down is accurate.

My commute's from suburb to suburb which is unusual, in a good way, but I have to work goofy hours to make what was a half hour commute, or less, under 90 minutes now. Property tax bill arrived the other day and it's insane. I really don't understand any enthusiasm, by non-sailors, for MD. Can't wait to leave.

[Caballoflaco]

Dan Lehr what you just posted was definitely one of the things I was getting at, just more specific.

[Crazy Dane]

It’s not impossible to fix, but it does require wholesale turning over of city councils, mayoral offices, and possibly a DA.

These types of scenarios are not just theoretical. Yesterday, I’m on my way downtown for work, and I pass a couple of permanent car residents, with attendant hangers-on in my neighborhood next to the park. I texted my wife—who was doing yardwork—to give her a heads up.

Of course, nothing came of it, and most times nothing will. But circumstances dictate that I *have* to have a plan B in mind: I have verified, on 3 separate occasions, that calling 911 will likely do fuck all. So that means dealing with anything that I might hypothetically have to deal with will be, #1, all on me, and #2 will be all on me in the current victimhood political climate. That’s an uneasy truce with the current zeitgeist of my city, and it’s a city that’s still better off than a couple of coastal cities I could name. Sobering. Very sobering.



Our whole council is made up of liberal females.... This is what they voted for and the decisions from council reflect as much. I don't see this changing for a while.

Thank you for the "permanent car residents" I wasn't sure what to call these people. Planet fitness parking lot is full every night as is Craker Barrel.

I, a member of the FD, have radioed for the PD "emergency " and we are still waiting. If you come to this city, you will be responsible for yourself.

[cheby]

It’s not impossible to fix, but it does require wholesale turning over of city councils, mayoral offices, and possibly a DA.



City Councils, mayoral offices, and DAs are elected by people of those cities. I do not believe those people will vote differently even after everything that happened in the last 10 years. It did not happen overnight. It took many years to get to this point. It would take that long to fix it if we are lucky. (Spoiler alert, we are not).

[G19Fan]

[/B]



I'd add one thing. I believe there are a lot of young folks looking at things and not thinking that they don't want to participate, but, instead realizing they there is little chance they will be able to participate in a self-actualizing way.

I related this story once in a thread somewhere in which a guy was pontificating about being a self-made man and anyone can grow up to be President: I am generally curious, and I hope caring, about folks I see. While not a particularly strong conversationalist, I do enjoy talking with random folks that I meet while out and about. One day I'm trucking through the Atlanta Airport and decide to get a burger. I walk up to the counter and see a young black guy, nametag says 'Josh.' 'What's good today?' Nothing back but a shrug so I order a burger and a coke. As I pay I try again 'How you doing today?' Clearly not wanting to talk, the kid looks at me mumbles 'I'm here.' At that moment I understood him to be saying 'this is it, life ain't getting no better' and it saddened me to think there wasn't anything I could say or do to help in the moment.

I think there are a lot of 'Josh's' out there, they may want to participate, but they see a life where they have little choice but taking what's available, what they can get, not what they want.

I think that's a different kind of despair.

Agreed with this 100% it doesn't help that people are doombombed by the media all day. Also notice a huge lack of conversational skill (in person) amongst the younger gens

[mmc45414]

I have verified, on 3 separate occasions, that calling 911 will likely do fuck all. So that means dealing with anything that I might hypothetically have to deal with will be, #1, all on me, and #2 will be all on me in the current victimhood political climate.
Probably want to make the call just as a matter of record. If things ever unfortunately would escalate you would be the guy who called (with a timeline that could be verified) before you were attacked.


Clearly not wanting to talk, the kid looks at me mumbles 'I'm here.' At that moment I understood him to be saying 'this is it, life ain't getting no better' and it saddened me to think there wasn't anything I could say or do to help in the moment.

I think there are a lot of 'Josh's' out there, they may want to participate, but they see a life where they have little choice but taking what's available, what they can get, not what they want.

I think that's a different kind of despair.
What is really sad is that he has reason to despair, and things will not change for damn sure as long as that is his MO. I have empathy for some dude that probably got up at 04:30 to catch a bus to the airport to go to work to make jack shit, but being shitty to be around is not going to change his circumstance, but he has probably been conditioned to expect that his life will never change. Especially working in an airport, where he might constantly be making contact with people that might be able offer him alternative opportunities.

[mmc45414]

Dad worked at NCR in Dayton. Spent many evenings at old river, the park NCR had set up for the company's families. GM, Frigidaire, Dayton Tire and Rubber, Wonderbread, and Wright Pat along with NCR were the standout employers.
While you were hanging out with my wife at Old River I was playing Putt-Putt at Frigidaire Park. :cool:

[Joe in PNG]

If the powers that be on both sides can get money and votes to fix problems, there's no actual incentive to fix the problem, and even the perverse incentive to prolong it. Which leads to...

Likewise, if the lawless are a good portion of one's voting base, there's no incentive to enforce the laws. Lack of law enforcement leads to lawlessness & crime, lawlessness & crime leads to fewer legitimate business opportunities, which leads to more poverty, which leads to criminality & substance abuse. It's hard to make a small business work if the owner is regularly robbed and assaulted.

The Nostalgie de la Boue & radical chic of the rich & influential isn't helping things either.

[Borderland]

Dad worked at NCR in Dayton. Spent many evenings at old river, the park NCR had set up for the company's families. GM, Frigidaire, Dayton Tire and Rubber, Wonderbread, and Wright Pat along with NCR were the standout employers.

Then, NCR started sending people to Chicago for weeks at a time, they started letting people go w/o any notice. The place changed. Back toward the rest of the family in VA and MD we came. Been here ever since. The comment regarding MD being middle America with the parasites of DC and Baltimore and parts of Annapolis dragging it down is accurate.

My commute's from suburb to suburb which is unusual, in a good way, but I have to work goofy hours to make what was a half hour commute, or less, under 90 minutes now. Property tax bill arrived the other day and it's insane. I really don't understand any enthusiasm, by non-sailors, for MD. Can't wait to leave.

An old Navy buddy went back to MD after he was discharged around 1970. That was his family home where he grew up. He went to work as a union plumber and worked many jobs in DC. He retired about the same time I did and immediately moved to DE. I'm not sure where he lived in MD but where ever it was, he and his wife, didn't like it. He said there is a lot of residential construction now around Millsboro, so DE must be a hot spot.

[Totem Polar]

Probably want to make the call just as a matter of record. If things ever unfortunately would escalate you would be the guy who called (with a timeline that could be verified) before you were attacked.


Is that record still the case even if the call goes directly to voicemail? The last two cases of calling 911 that I am personally aware of (violent EDP in a restaurant, and trail fire on a popular mountain biking loop) went straight to voice message. No dispatcher picked up. I’m asking, because I have no idea if those calls are logged.


As an aside, I agree with you about Josh in the airport and opportunity. Like many, I was a Josh in the airport when I was younger, and I found opportunity. Of course, it sounds like I had significant verbal skills over “Josh,” but to be fair, the first step is showing up. If he’s actually working a shitty job, he’s already on, like, the 5th rung up the ladder.

[Borderland]

I was in an airport in the SE, I think it was Atlanta, and I offered a tip to a person behind the counter at one of the chain coffee shops. She said they weren't allowed to take tips which surprised me. Must be an airport policy or something. That has to be a really shit job.

I had a few shit jobs in my 20's.

[mmc45414]

Is that record still the case even if the call goes directly to voicemail? The last two cases of calling 911 that I am personally aware of (violent EDP in a restaurant, and trail fire on a popular mountain biking loop) went straight to voice message. No dispatcher picked up. I’m asking, because I have no idea if those calls are logged.
I do not know specifically (some here may) about call logs and voice mail retention at the dispatch centers, but if nothing else you would have your own phone records showing you had called 911, supporting your side of the story. One thing that that has been mentioned here is that there could be a possibility that your phone could be taken as evidence (at a time in life when you would probably need it) so I would probably not say "See, look at my call logs!!!!" but that info could easily be retrieved. But it sounds like if you said "I called 911, nobody ever showed up", no one would be inclined to even check. But if after the fact people questioned your UoF it might be handy to be able to say that you called the cops and they never showed, and:

107599

[RoyGBiv]

Is that record still the case even if the call goes directly to voicemail? The last two cases of calling 911 that I am personally aware of (violent EDP in a restaurant, and trail fire on a popular mountain biking loop) went straight to voice message. No dispatcher picked up. I’m asking, because I have no idea if those calls are logged.

.

Good opportunity to visit your local CLEO and ask them.

[randyho]

He said there is a lot of residential construction now around Millsboro, so DE must be a hot spot.
That's where a chunk of my family went, Bethany, specifically. 15 years ago that seemed like a great idea. But, there's a bit of NJification happening since then. Gun laws are getting stupid, calls for higher property taxes, etc.

NE TN is figuring into things to explore for retirement now.