Remington 870 Tactical question

[DLWinner]

I recently acquired a Remington 870 Tactical 12Ga. It is approximately 5 years old. It was made when Remington had some questionable qc. I am keeping it simple with no optics or lights.
What parts on these were known to fail? I was thinking the extractor. This will probably be used for some classes so I wanted to replace the questionable parts.

[TCinVA]

You want to check to ensure the chamber doesn't have any issues by running shells through the gun and ensuring they extract cleanly. Issues with chambers leading to unreliable extraction were a problem.

The MIM extractor can be replaced by a tool-steel extractor from Volquartsen.

Replace the magazine spring and follower with better quality items. Wilson sells a nice spring and follower combo. I use a Wolff spring in the gun and the Vang Comp follower in my 870s.

Ensure the magazine cap stays tight so you don't break the ejector.

[DLWinner]

You want to check to ensure the chamber doesn't have any issues by running shells through the gun and ensuring they extract cleanly. Issues with chambers leading to unreliable extraction were a problem.

The MIM extractor can be replaced by a tool-steel extractor from Volquartsen.

Replace the magazine spring and follower with better quality items. Wilson sells a nice spring and follower combo. I use a Wolff spring in the gun and the Vang Comp follower in my 870s.

Ensure the magazine cap stays tight so you don't break the ejector.

Thank you for the info. Those were were all of the parts on I was thinking. I will get them ordered this week.

[perlslacker]

You want to check to ensure the chamber doesn't have any issues by running shells through the gun and ensuring they extract cleanly. Issues with chambers leading to unreliable extraction were a problem.

The MIM extractor can be replaced by a tool-steel extractor from Volquartsen.

Replace the magazine spring and follower with better quality items. Wilson sells a nice spring and follower combo. I use a Wolff spring in the gun and the Vang Comp follower in my 870s.

Ensure the magazine cap stays tight so you don't break the ejector.

Didn't the Police Magnums always have milled extractors? Or did that change at some point during the Freedom era?

EDIT: OP said "Tactical" not "Police." I reed gud.

[shootist26]

I recently acquired a Remington 870 Tactical 12Ga. It is approximately 5 years old. It was made when Remington had some questionable qc. I am keeping it simple with no optics or lights.
What parts on these were known to fail? I was thinking the extractor. This will probably be used for some classes so I wanted to replace the questionable parts.

I made the following upgrades:
- 870 police steel extractor and carrier dog spring
- Hi vis polymer follower and better magazine spring that came with my Vang mag extension
- Vang big dome safety

Shoot a bunch of cheap metal base (aluminum? steel?) shells through it and see how the extraction goes. If the hulls stick in the chamber, you'll need to hone it. I've mostly seen problems running those low rimmed non-brass shells like Estate sport loads

I like the 870 Police carrier dog spring upgrade a lot. It makes the shell lifter lift up with noticeably more oomph than the standard 870

[gato naranja]

I recently acquired a Remington 870 Tactical 12Ga. It is approximately 5 years old. It was made when Remington had some questionable qc. I am keeping it simple with no optics or lights.
What parts on these were known to fail? I was thinking the extractor. This will probably be used for some classes so I wanted to replace the questionable parts.

K.I.S.S. is a good idea on a 12 gauge pump shotgun.

These small bits should get you most of the way to a "Police"-grade action:

Police carrier dog spring
Police sear spring
Police extractor (which is - or at least was - milled steel).

After that, things can get out of focus.

The right magazine spring is essential, but some tacticals may actually already have one. There are lots of length variations in magazine springs over the years and if you have a magazine tube extension, you don't want to be caught short (so to speak). If in doubt, get a new one of known quality and specific application.
I swear by the S&J Hardware Type 2 Green magazine follower, but there are plenty of other good ones out there. The factory orange ones function okay until the day the polymer they are molded of fails.
After a few years trying different safeties, I returned to the old-school Wilson/Scattergun Jumbo head safety. The Vang protruded way too much for me, and while the S&J was just right, I started having some forefinger pain using anything but the Wilson (or the stock Remington) safety.

I found that the best of parts will occasionally need a burr removed or some such thing, and even the most revered of vendors can have a bad day (be it bad heat treating, etc). I have had more unpleasant "surprises" on shotgun mods/upgrades than about anything else.

[L-2]

All the replies have very good advice and the posters have very good knowledge and experience with these guns.
I'm not very knowledgeable in the 870 detail stripping or "armorer-ing".

If me, especially for classes, I'd definitely have a 2nd shotgun brought with me to these classes, whether another 870 or not.

Although I might order the recommended parts, I'd consider going through the classes with the subject shotgun as is.
The existing parts might or I'd even say, likely hold up just fine for a few classes without breakage, but you'd have the spare parts on hand should they do break at some later time.

Or some other part(s) break not mentioned at all, which would be more my luck; (like a bead sight breaking off, a recoil pad decomposing; or the new, replaced part breaking, then needing to use the old original part to fix it).

This were just my thoughts as I was casually reading this thread, not so much to be used as advice.

[UNK]

Ive got a non related question. Aside from a few parts that can be installed on any 870 is there anything really special about the PM? Ive shot 3” out of a 12 guage in one instance in during a goose hunt. That load kicks. Arent most loads for defensive use 2.75? My point being they are rare and expensive wouldnt a viable alternative be an older inexpensive Wingmaster With a 2.75” chamber?

[kwb377]

My point being they are rare and expensive wouldnt a viable alternative be an older inexpensive Wingmaster With a 2.75” chamber?

PM's are rare and expensive? I picked up my '99-vintage 18.5" w/ ghost rings for $369 back in November...stopped by the same LGS last weekend and they had some mid-90's vintage ones in the rack with 20" rifle sights, mag extensions and SF forends for $329. They had more wear than mine did...but even though I'm full-up on defensive shotguns right now I consider myself a fool for not getting one.

[UNK]

PM's are rare and expensive? I picked up my '99-vintage 18.5" w/ ghost rings for $369 back in November...stopped by the same LGS last weekend and they had some mid-90's vintage ones in the rack with 20" rifle sights, mag extensions and SF forends for $329. They had more wear than mine did...but even though I'm full-up on defensive shotguns right now I consider myself a fool for not getting one.

I have only seen good prices on them here on the forum when some police dept traded a bunch in. Aside from that Ive seen only a few and they were more than I wanted to pay. Whats the most desirable configuration? Ive only shot shotguns with single bead or ribbed and two beads.

ETA I just went online and looked lots of tacticals, wingmaster or express and 1 marine magnum ad claiming to be police trade ins but very few police magnums.
At a lgs I recently saw a synthetic 870 they claimed was a police trade in but obviously that wasnt correct because the barrel had been recently cut short and they hadnt bothered to re blue the end or de burr it.

[thatguybryan]

Some good trade ins here:

https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/291456

I ordered one myself. If you get a light and I don’t, please send my way! ;)

[DLWinner]

New extractor and Magpul stock installed!
Any idea what wolff spring I need for this? Links would be appreciated. Thanks!

[DDTSGM]

IIRC the OEM mag spring for extended tubes was 28 or 29 inches.

Wollf makes an extended mag spring - bottom of page linked: https://www.gunsprings.com/REMINGTON/870,%20878,%2011-48,%20SPT-48,%20SPT-58/cID2/mID108/dID216

One thing you want to watch out for is shell deformation. In some cases shells can kind of crunch up/swell if you leave them in a fully loaded mag tube for extended periods.

ETA: I just noticed that was a Defender with the one-piece long mag tube. I believe those are 6 round tubes not 7 or 8.

[gato naranja]

ETA: I just noticed that was a Defender with the one-piece long mag tube. I believe those are 6 round tubes not 7 or 8.

I guess I assumed that it was an old-school tactical that used the factory +2 extension. That one-piece tube solves some potential issues, but it does limit barrel choice (there are no free lunches).

Any magazine spring made for trad 870's with factory +2 extensions should work okay, but they seem to be out of stock at a lot of places. I have used both Wolff (#32712) and Wilson/Scattergun (#SGSP-2-12) springs with +2 extensions and never had one fail in any way. At this point, you have as good furniture on the gun as you can get on an 870, and an extractor that shouldn't worry you. I'd run an eclectic assortment of shells through it to see if anything weird pops up; if not, you can replace - or not replace - some of the other bits at your leisure.

[DLWinner]

So I need the replacement Wolff spring for the extended tube? They’re seem to be out of stock most places. The spring that was in the gun, was too short. It rattled when shook. I stretched it out slightly and it should work in a pinch until the replacement arrives.
Would this do it? I would get the one with the follower, but my tube has dimples and I really don’t want to do the mod.

[gato naranja]

So I need the replacement Wolff spring for the extended tube? They’re seem to be out of stock most places. The spring that was in the gun, was too short. It rattled when shook. I stretched it out slightly and it should work in a pinch until the replacement arrives.

Yeah, if the magazine spring wan't being compressed a bit at rest, I'd be looking for a longer replacement.

You might try checking the websites of Wolff and/or Wilson Combat to watch for availability of just the spring and ordering from them directly. A good alternative would be https://sjhardware.us/product/type-1-follower-and-magazine-spring-package/ which would get you a longer spring and a better follower than the factory one (and the S&J Hardware follower should clear the "dimples").

ETA: That Wilson you linked to will work .

[DLWinner]

I ordered the WC spring and got the follower just to have. Once that comes, I will shoot it! A lot.

[DLWinner]

I ordered the WC spring and got the follower just to have. Once that comes, I will shoot it! A lot.

And the safety

[gato naranja]

I ordered the WC spring and got the follower just to have. Once that comes, I will shoot it! A lot.

That particular follower MIGHT be a bit problematic in your 870 configuration. It has a relatively long tail, and does not have lengthwise notches to clear the magazine tube "dimples" in 870's so equipped. I have notched a Wilson follower myself just to see if it could be done, and it can (I have never been a big fan of removing the dimples, as I consider all 870 magazine tubes to be better left alone). Should you decide to use a Wilson follower, about five minutes with the right size file on either side of the follower will allow it to slide past the dimples. Whatever they are molded of is odd stuff.

At one point, I had about a half-dozen of these Wilson/Scattergun followers around the place as they were sort of the "go-to" followers in those days. I eventually disposed of them in favor of the S&J Hardware Type 2 followers. If I were redoing another defensive 870 at this stage of my life, I would probably use one of the S&J Hardware Type 3 followers, but I don't need to fix what ain't broke.

[DLWinner]

The wilson spring will work with the OEM orange follower, right?

[TCinVA]

Ive got a non related question. Aside from a few parts that can be installed on any 870 is there anything really special about the PM?


The 870 Police was manufactured on a different production line than the 870 "Express" models. Their receivers were vibra-honed where the "express" models were not. They were parkerized where the "express" models were just painted. They included a tool-steel extractor where the "express" models use an MIM extractor. They also included a heavier sear spring and heavier carrier dog spring. The heavier sear spring reduced the chances of the hammer jumping off the sear from impact and discharging the shotgun. The heavier carrier dog spring helped with reliable feeding and function. The chambers on the police barrels tended to be better polished, reducing the odds you get feed issues from a sticky chamber.

I say "was" because I have no idea what Remington is doing after emerging from the bankruptcy.

The vibra-honed receivers, in general, made for a smoother running action. The parkerized finish holds up to hard wear and abuse better than the paint on the "express" model guns. The Police model guns also don't have those ridiculous dimples in the magazine tube that prevent use of a magazine extension without the need to use a dremel.


Arent most loads for defensive use 2.75?

Yes. 2 3/4" shells are just fine for defensive purposes.



My point being they are rare and expensive wouldnt a viable alternative be an older inexpensive Wingmaster With a 2.75” chamber?

An old Wingmaster that's in good shape is a great starting place for a defensive shotgun. A properly made Wingmaster has an action that is slicker than owl snot and they run beautifully. Trouble is that the blued finish isn't usually the best for the kinds of circumstances that the defensive gauge finds itself in. I taught a class yesterday in the rain where the shotguns end up laying on gravel in between shooting exercises...not great for a pretty Wingmaster.

I have defensive 870's that started life as a Wingmaster. But my go-to 870 is an "express" gun that I put a rifle-sighted 870P barrel on, had refinished with Cerakote (which has held up very well), replaced the key springs in with 870P springs, and had barrel work done on. It's a great shotgun.

The action on it isn't super smooth, limiting me to .28 splits with it. With a really smooth action on an 870 I can shoot .24 splits. So obviously those extra 4/100ths of a second are going to get me kilt in the streets...but it is noticeable in the feel of the gun.

I bought a lot of 870's during the era of the cheap trade-in 870. And I spent a fair bit of time on Gunbroker picking up various specimens of 870 for $200 a piece. Those days are gone and I doubt they will return.

[TCinVA]

The wilson spring will work with the OEM orange follower, right?

Yes, but the OEM follower is a shamefully cheap part that would be better replaced with the Wilson follower...which can be had in bright colors so it is also highly visible.

I de-dimpled my 870 "Express" gun using a dremel tool and just nibbling off the "dimples" from the inside of the magazine tube.

[Paul Blackburn]

I bought a lot of 870's during the era of the cheap trade-in 870. And I spent a fair bit of time on Gunbroker picking up various specimens of 870 for $200 a piece.

What did you do with them?:D

[gato naranja]

The wilson spring will work with the OEM orange follower, right?

That spring will work just fine regardless of the follower you use; it's a good spring.

The orange OEM follower will work too, but it will eventually crack like the inexpensive plastic part it is; maybe not tomorrow, or next month, but there will come a day when it fails. In "the golden age of Remington 870's" the followers were a stamped steel cup that might rust in place if you neglected them, but they weren't going to crack on you.

The green Wilson/Scattergun follower that came with the Wilson spring could be a functional improvement for a while if it dropped right in, but even then I would not recommend those followers because they can distort over time. I have had two of them develop a bend in their tail, and had one that began to crumble apart... to be fair, the one that began to disintegrate may have done so due to a particular cleaning compound. Since these followers don't work with dimpled magazine tubes unless you either put grooves in the follower or modify the gun itself by removing the mag tube dimples, they are a dated design compared to other followers.

As mentioned before, I use the S&J Hardware Type 2 magazine followers, but the current Vang Comp stainless (# VC-112) and GG&G stainless/aluminum (# GGG-1437) followers will work just as well- and all three already have the grooves (or "notches, if you will) that will clear the dimples on your magazine tube so you don't need to permanently modify your magazine tube. There are other followers out there that also have the clearance grooves, but I have no personal experience with them, so I won't list them.

[TCinVA]

Personally I use the Vang Comp follower in my 870 shotguns. It's performed very well, even when the gun has been exposed to thick red clay out in Oklahoma.

[gato naranja]

Personally I use the Vang Comp follower in my 870 shotguns. It's performed very well, even when the gun has been exposed to thick red clay out in Oklahoma.

The Vang Comp follower is definitely a quality item.

[LHS]

Personally I use the Vang Comp follower in my 870 shotguns. It's performed very well, even when the gun has been exposed to thick red clay out in Oklahoma.

Same. The Wilson/Scattergun follower is definitely better than the craptastic factory plastic follower, but I tend to stick with the Vang follower in my serious-use guns.

[DLWinner]

I just ordered the Vang comp follower. Thanks for all the help!

[DLWinner]

This is the difference in springs….
I’m pretty sure the wrong spring was installed at the factory.

[gato naranja]

This is the difference in springs….
I’m pretty sure the wrong spring was installed at the factory.

Late on a Friday afternoon... after someone cut the lights...

[DLWinner]

The follower should arrive today. I’m planning on shooting it tomorrow to test everything.
I’ve replaced:
Stock
Extractor
Magazine spring
And follower.

Any other items I should replace, or just run it?

[Paul Blackburn]

The 870 Police models have an extra power carrier dog spring.

[gato naranja]

The follower should arrive today. I’m planning on shooting it tomorrow to test everything.
I’ve replaced:
Stock
Extractor
Magazine spring
And follower.

Any other items I should replace, or just run it?


The 870 Police models have an extra power carrier dog spring.

The Police models also used to have an extra power sear spring, but Remington changed over to using the standard 870 sear spring in them at some point. Not too many people get real excited about the thought of increasing sear spring weight.

[DLWinner]

I fired a box of cheap bulk Winchester today. Seems to work. Kinda weak ejection, but nothing too concerning. Smooth shooter.

[gato naranja]

I fired a box of cheap bulk Winchester today. Seems to work. Kinda weak ejection, but nothing too concerning. Smooth shooter.

A lot of initial 870 extraction/ejection problems I have seen are due to ammo type or roughness of the chamber and/or the extension on the barrel that the shell might rub against on the way back and out. That your gun works even just okay with the cheap Winchester stuff is a plus right out of the gate.

My own experience has been that even Police models benefit from some use and break-in to really function their best, and while I don't believe in pounding the living daylights out of an 870 or a Mossy, I admit that I can still get too "delicate" when I rack a pump shotgun... yes, I am confessing to "sub-optimal operator" error.

I personally like doing some "farmer style" vetting of a new shotgun: running all sorts of odds and ends through the gun and getting at least some of the rough bits smoothed off while simultaneously making mental notes about what ammunition seems to make the thing choke. I used to always have odd rounds that were the dregs of nearly empty boxes, or single rounds eventually thrown into the proverbial coffee can after being pocketed during sessions; I also "bummed" random rounds whenever other shooters were willing to contribute a couple. The more variety the better.

(And man, some contributions are interesting to speculate on! Like shells that must have left the factory during the Eisenhower administration, or some odd crap made in Elbonia or Pottsylvania. I always clean the barrel and magazine tube religiously after using such mixed bags o' fodder because some of the fouling can be kind of wild.)