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BLR
10-19-2012, 07:19 AM
Got done at the gym, and stopped off at Steak & Shake for a quick bite of oatmeal before heading to teach my one class this semester.

Sitting at the bar, oblivious to everything, working on my Blackberry. Since I was at the gym, I left my P35 sitting in the truck. I didn't bother putting it on before going into S&S. Now's a good time to add some more detail. I'm a good 2 miles outside the main attraction in the Fairborn area. It's 6:45AM. I'm eating my oatmeal when I pick up on a conversation and a bit of a flap at the register. Two Saudi (I found out they were Saudi shortly) guys were trying to pay w/ Saudi currency, and when that failed, they tried to pay with no less than six, yes six unactivated credit/bank cards. Now some observations on the two fellows - they looked dirty and ragged. They said they were Wright State students. They didn't look like my middle east students. Nor did they act similar. The stickers on the cards weren't even removed. Only ID they had that I could see was Saudi - the waitress made them leave their ID with her before going to get more money. So, they agree to both leave to get the $15 to cover the bill. I'm sitting there, Blackberry in hand reading emails. I call the waitress over and ask her if it might not be a bad idea to make a photo copy of the licenses. She agrees, and says she will. I go back to finishing reading emails....mind you this is with the 8 mega pixel Blackberry camera in my hand with the ID a whole 24 inches from me. So let me summarize this so far:

1. Couple Saudi's acting strange for students, w/ no US currency and more than a few unactivated credit cards
2. I'm w/o my P35 (gotta be honest here, if I had my whole firearm collection in front of me and knew I'd be walking into this, I'd have left the HP at home in favor of my CQB-E). This is a caliber choice. I get the 9 v 45 argument. I don't care. I'd have rather had my 45. Don't bother explaining how this is illogical.
3. I had a really good digital camera right there and didn't use it.
4. I panned off the responsibility of reporting this to the waitress - not proud of that. I have excuses, but none that really justify it. She was just concerned w/ not having to pick up the tab, I think.
5. I did, however get a license plate number (foreign!) and their ID numbers.

So right when I realize I've got a great opportunity to just take a quick pick of the ID, my two guys show back up w/ a sawbuck. Way too fast to have gone to an ATM. Meaning they did have cash in the car. They pay, then leave. Everyone is stirred up a bit, and I'm kicking myself for leaving my pistol in my car in a place I've carried literally dozens of times before because I was just way to lazy this AM. AND not having the presence of mind to just take a stupid picture. Not exactly my best effort.

So, the question for the experts: when do you call, say, the FBI and tell them the story? This had a funny feel to me, and I'm very used to dealing with foreign students. In other words, where's the line to cross to justify making a call? After all, the guys who flew planes into buildings were "just students" too. Should I call the Cincy field office?

Isaac
10-19-2012, 08:06 AM
I'm sure the chances of them being terrorists are slim, but when in doubt- go with your gut. That's my vote. And you gut did turn on, right?

As for the 1911, I read your thread on that .45's reliability, wow. Reliability and familiarity trumps caliber IMO. So no argument there.


Props to the FBI for the recent bust too.

SLG
10-19-2012, 08:15 AM
It probably is nothing, but I would call the local FBI office and tell them what you know. They won't laugh, I promise.

BLR
10-19-2012, 08:50 AM
Done.

Not worried about them laughing though (my ego/arrogance is WAY too robust for that), more so just wasting their time.

So, what's the "rule of thumb" on calling the Feds? How dubious do things need to be to make a call.

Al T.
10-19-2012, 09:11 AM
Don't over think it, just call. I would.

NETim
10-19-2012, 09:54 AM
The "9mm vs the 45" thing was settled long ago:

1100

NickA
10-19-2012, 10:09 AM
I think you did the right thing. Most likely not an al-Quaeda sleeper cell, but six unactivated credit cards seems all kinds of sketchy.

Kyle Reese
10-19-2012, 10:12 AM
I think you did the right thing. Most likely not an al-Quaeda sleeper cell, but six unactivated credit cards seems all kinds of sketchy.

If they were a sleeper cell, they must have failed Tradecraft 101.

BLR, you did the right thing by calling it in.

Bigguy
10-19-2012, 10:16 AM
The "9mm vs the 45" thing was settled long ago:
http://pistol-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1100&d=1350658436
1100

http://www.guywheatley.com/gifs/twoguyslaugh.gif

Love the 10MM illustration.

TCinVA
10-19-2012, 11:55 AM
I almost left my pistol in the car on Christmas Eve 2010. I asked myself "what are the odds?"

I put on the gun and that was the night the dude tried to rob me.

I have a future blog post that will interview a fellow who almost left his gun home.

TGS
10-19-2012, 12:15 PM
I think you definitely did the right thing.

From what I understand, we can't rely on just one incident (besides the actual attack) to know that terrorists are terrorists.....if that makes sense. It's a string of events that investigators and intel analysts are able to piece together that points them towards someone who is likely a terrorist, that deserves a closer look. Maybe the indicators and warning model specified a group of men in the Cincinatti area who were having financial difficulties, and a Saudi background was also on the model. See what I mean? It could be just the piece of information that a crew is looking for, even if you don't know the whole deal.

And even if they're not what you perceive as terrorists, LE should know about someone who's trying 6 declined credit cards and acting suspicious anyway. That alone rings alarm bells, like a group of thugs that just ransacked an early-bird knitting workshop or has otherwise been on the run. Take the whole "claiming to be a Saudi student but not acting like any Saudi student I've ever seen" out of your description, and it still sounds like a situation where the authorities should be alerted due to potential fraud/stolen goods.

BLR
10-19-2012, 12:35 PM
Good points, well made.

I'm still kicking myself for being so lazy today. Phone in hand, looking right at it. Leaving gun in car because I've never needed it before. Another cool thing - must have been 4 or 5 customers in there total. Yet, I didn't even notice them until they started giving the waitress grief, 5 feet from me. Hell, forget terrorists. What if they were just regular old scum knocking off the place? And I'm 5 feet from the register. And, to make things even better, I look like I have money (Rolex, suit, etc.). Like a big ole' target painted on my back.

Josh Runkle
10-19-2012, 02:42 PM
If you think something's suspicious, report it. Odds are, nothing illegal was at all taking place.

ToddG
10-19-2012, 03:11 PM
As someone who has both called the FBI to report suspicious activity (pizza delivery guy spontaneously asked me how long I'd been working for the FBI, on an evening when I'd spent the whole day down at the FBI HRT compound) and had the FBI called on him (getting a pallet of ammo delivered to my front door)... I vote call. Always. If it turns out you're a jerk, evil, racist, whatever people want to say, so be it. Is the FBI that deals with it, not you. But if you're the only guy clued in enough to notice them before they do something wrong, you could make a real difference.

Also, you're a f'ing moron for leaving your gun in the car. That's a mistake not everyone gets to talk about afterwards.

BLR
10-19-2012, 04:00 PM
As someone who has both called the FBI to report suspicious activity (pizza delivery guy spontaneously asked me how long I'd been working for the FBI, on an evening when I'd spent the whole day down at the FBI HRT compound) and had the FBI called on him (getting a pallet of ammo delivered to my front door)... I vote call. Always. If it turns out you're a jerk, evil, racist, whatever people want to say, so be it. Is the FBI that deals with it, not you. But if you're the only guy clued in enough to notice them before they do something wrong, you could make a real difference.

Also, you're a f'ing moron for leaving your gun in the car. That's a mistake not everyone gets to talk about afterwards.

Usually I try to keep my language clean and observe some semblance of grammar on forums, but please excuse me this time.

1. I was not a "f'ing moron" for leaving my gun in the car. I was a lazy dumbass for doing that. I was/am a F'ING MORON FOR NOT GOING OUT AND GETTING IT DURING THE MANY OPPORTUNITIES TO DO SO AFTER THE ALARM BELLS WENT OFF. THAT makes me a F'ING MORON. And it's a mistake I'll never make again. 'Cause buddy, I looked right at it and decided to leave it in the Boyt case before going in. And to ice that cake, I walked right in, parked at the bar with my back to the world, and buried my nose in my BB and tuned out the world. That makes me a "f'ing moron."

2. I'm not too concerned w/ looking like an evil/racist/jerk. Unless you are paying me (and these guys will never have that opportunity), I pretty much don't care what people think. I've had the DEA, FBI, and the ATFE come visit me for a variety of reasons. I'm sure I'm on all kinds of "watch lists." Artifact from my line of work. I just don't like wasting their time, and was wondering what you guys though the line of demarcation is for making the call. What I'm hearing is whenever things look hinky.

Lesson learned. Thankfully, for free.

ToddG
10-19-2012, 04:14 PM
I'm willing to concede your version is a better description. :cool:

Al T.
10-19-2012, 07:41 PM
blr, some times it takes a "close encounter" of the awful kind to put things in perspective. If you really were a "f,ing maroon", you wouldn't be sharing your angst.

My "Uh-Oh, no gun" moment involved an after dinner run to the local store (1/2 mile away) and a potentially ugly encounter with a car full of drunks.

MD7305
10-19-2012, 07:57 PM
If anything your report of suspicious activity might be a missing piece of a puzzle already under the investigative eyes of the Bureau. You never know how valuable the info maybe, so as others have said, it can't hurt to make a call. In my professional experience with the Feds, they are always seemingly appreciative of small tips, even from a small town cop, in my case.

Lon
10-19-2012, 08:16 PM
Should I call the Cincy field office?

There's an office in Montgomery County. I'd tell you where it is, but then I'd have to kill you.:cool: If you need or want a name and number, I can get one for you. Worked with them a bit when I was working narcotics. PM me if you need to.

JAD
10-20-2012, 05:59 AM
I'm willing to concede your version is a better description. :cool:

More precise, which is just blr all over.

BLR
10-20-2012, 07:04 AM
There's an office in Montgomery County. I'd tell you where it is, but then I'd have to kill you.:cool: If you need or want a name and number, I can get one for you. Worked with them a bit when I was working narcotics. PM me if you need to.

I was interviewed by SAs from there a few times. Was mostly very shortly after 9/11 so everyone was being looked at.

Once due to technology transfer from AFRL "visiting scientists" to China.

Once to explain why I was buying large quantities of sodium hypophosphite (THE reducing agent for meth production.....but also necessary for electroless nickel deposition).

Once to explain what I was buying pentaerythritol (used to make PETN, we have an ATF Explosives Manufactures license).

I was more than happy to show the FBI, ATF, and DEA what we were doing and why. And for the most part (of the 3 SAs I talked to, only one jerk) it was a learning experience for both of us. I think they walked away having learned something from me, and me from them.

I've been impressed with the AFT and FBI's professionalism every time. The DEA, I have a single "negative" experience. Though I think they typically work with an entirely different crowd than I represent.