Shooting aggressive dogs while running

[Warped Mindless]

I live in Ohio. For those who don’t know, in Ohio, everyone and their mother owns a pitbull.

Why?

I have no idea but it’s ridiculous because the vast majority of owners are NOT responsible.

Anyways, now that warmer months are upon us I want to start running outside again but curious about the legalities of shooting an aggressive dog that gives chase.

I’ve been bit by attacking dogs before and I will NOT allow that to happen again.

I’ve been around enough dogs to know when one is just being playful and chasing for fun. I get that and bo worries. My concern is the unchained pitt that starts aggressively chasing.

Here is the deal… I know all the “typical” advice of stopping, turning sideways, not looking the dog in the eyes and slowly backing away and I’m not doing ANY of that. Who ever wrote that BS hasn’t had to deal with the dogs around here.

I also get that the most obvious COA is to run elsewhere but there is no where in my AO that doesn’t have aggressive dogs around and frankly I’m sick of not being able to run outside.

So, hoping to hear from some more experienced members in this area but, in general, what are the requirements for shooting a dog that gives chase and one that you believe is aggressive?

Again, just to restate, I’ve been attacked by dogs before and I’m not ever allowing that to happen again so if it seems I’m “to quick to what to shoot the poor fur baby” that’s why.

[Hambo]

Don't we have a 1700 page thread on dog shooting?

Ever think of moving to a neighborhood where people don't let their dogs run loose?

[Warped Mindless]

Don't we have a 1700 page thread on dog shooting?

Ever think of moving to a neighborhood where people don't let their dogs run loose?

I live in southern Ohio. Those neighborhoods don’t exist.

[WobblyPossum]

Be prepared for an immediate, aggressive confrontation with the dog’s owners if you shoot someone’s dog.

[Jim Watson]

Right.
IDPA will sometimes present targets trimmed down and positioned low and horizontal to represent mean dogs, and there will also be some upright targets. To which my comment is that if you shoot a mean dog, be prepared to shoot a mean owner.

Anecdote Alert:
When we relocated the Trap and Skeet Club out of encroaching suburban development to the back of the county, we had a nearby resident counsel us.
His advice was that shotguns were ok, but "Don't go shooting off rifles and pistols, or somebody will burn this place down."
He described the time a neighbor kicked his dog: "I drove by his place that night. I had my rifle in the truck and was going to shoot through his house, but Joe said not to, his woman and kids were prolly in there."

[vcdgrips]

WP is spot on.

The why of why you cannot run without being attacked by a dog in your AO is not particularly relevant.

The what is that it sounds like that it is only a matter of time before you do

You can:

Run free, with pepper spray and other gear

Run on a track outside to mitigate/eliminate the issue

Do another form of cardio outside i.e. bike which may mitigate the risk

Do another form of cardio indoors

Do no cardio.

Let us know what you do and why you do it.

Be safe and well.


PS-To be clear-In most jurisdictions- Dog owners are strictly liable for ANY bites their dogs cause. As such, using force against dogs when you can articulate a fear of bodily injury , particularly serious bodily injury, is completely permissible. Having said that, hurting folks dogs, for any reason, reasonable or not, tends to really piss said folks off.

Very anecdotally, many porch dogs were routinely dispatched when “teams” were serving warrants earlier in my career ( late 90s). While this still happens, the use of pepper spray, fire extinguishers, less leather rounds etc. are often in play as well. Some of that plays to the crowd and the press better. Some of that is because, anecdotally, subjects in the house where a warrant was being served would really get pissed off when the dog got shot and the whole operation got sporty very quickly and/or folks would not give statements after the fact.

[medmo]

Right.
IDPA will sometimes present targets trimmed down and positioned low and horizontal to represent mean dogs, and there will also be some upright targets. To which my comment is that if you shoot a mean dog, be prepared to shoot a mean owner.

Anecdote Alert:
When we relocated the Trap and Skeet Club out of encroaching suburban development to the back of the county, we had a nearby resident counsel us.
His advice was that shotguns were ok, but "Don't go shooting off rifles and pistols, or somebody will burn this place down."
He described the time a neighbor kicked his dog: "I drove by his place that night. I had my rifle in the truck and was going to shoot through his house, but Joe said not to, his woman and kids were prolly in there."

There should be a treadmill set up at that IDPA stage to shoot from and the trimmed down targets should be moving quickly from behind. :)

Shooting an assault dog in town is going to bring all kinds of woes that will outweigh the benefits of being able to run in that area. There are also risks associated with loosing a round or two in an inhabited area.

IMHO - Not recommended, and not worth it if you can avoid it.

[Clusterfrack]

Warped Mindless, your situation sucks. There's really no good answer. Being an off-leash dog vigilante is not likely to end well for you. I'm not sure what I would do. We have had some issues with off-leash dogs in our neighborhood, and pocket OC spray solved the problem three times. I guess you could try running with bear spray or a riot-fogger, but blowback from OC is likely. And, owners may get into it with you for spraying their fur baby.

[HCM]

I live in Ohio. For those who don’t know, in Ohio, everyone and their mother owns a pitbull.

Why?

I have no idea but it’s ridiculous because the vast majority of owners are NOT responsible.

Anyways, now that warmer months are upon us I want to start running outside again but curious about the legalities of shooting an aggressive dog that gives chase.

I’ve been bit by attacking dogs before and I will NOT allow that to happen again.

I’ve been around enough dogs to know when one is just being playful and chasing for fun. I get that and bo worries. My concern is the unchained pitt that starts aggressively chasing.

Here is the deal… I know all the “typical” advice of stopping, turning sideways, not looking the dog in the eyes and slowly backing away and I’m not doing ANY of that. Who ever wrote that BS hasn’t had to deal with the dogs around here.

I also get that the most obvious COA is to run elsewhere but there is no where in my AO that doesn’t have aggressive dogs around and frankly I’m sick of not being able to run outside.

So, hoping to hear from some more experienced members in this area but, in general, what are the requirements for shooting a dog that gives chase and one that you believe is aggressive?

Again, just to restate, I’ve been attacked by dogs before and I’m not ever allowing that to happen again so if it seems I’m “to quick to what to shoot the poor fur baby” that’s why.

Since this is “mindset and tactics”

IME Ohio is the only contender for Florida’s status as paragon of trashy weird shit.

It doesn’t matter what color or ethnicity the residents are, if you are in an area where people let their dogs routinely run loose you are in the hood. Plan accordingly.

You live in an area full of s****y trashy people who let their dogs run loose and you think if you shoot one of those dogs you’re not gonna get into a lethal force confrontation with the owner(s) ?

As someone who has both been bitten by dogs and involved in shooting dogs, none of which were pits, your fixation on them tells me that you actually don’t know shit about fuck regarding dogs and dog behavior.

IME dry Chem fire extinguishers are the most effective less lethal option but impractical for running. OC is effective on dogs and much less likely to rile up the natives. For outdoor applications I would choose stream over a fog cone. Longer distance, less effected by environmental conditions and dogs can’t wipe the liquid off their face like people can.

[okie john]

Having said that, hurting folks dogs, for any reason, reasonable or not, tends to really piss said folks off.

Yep. The ball is in their court as to how/when/where they avenge Fido. Maybe it's a Molotov through your window when you're away but your family is not.


Okie John

[Warped Mindless]

Since this is “mindset and tactics”

IME Ohio is the only contender for Florida’s status as paragon of trashy weird shit.

It doesn’t matter what color or ethnicity the residents are, if you are in an area where people let their dogs routinely run loose you are in the hood. Plan accordingly.

You live in an area full of s****y trashy people who let their dogs run loose and you think if you shoot one of those dogs you’re not gonna get into a lethal force confrontation with the owner(s) ?

As someone who has both been bitten by dogs and involved in shooting dogs, none of which were pits, your fixation on them tells me that you actually don’t know shit about fuck regarding dogs and dog behavior.

In my life I’ve been attacked by three dogs. All pits. So yeah, maybe you don’t know shit about me.

[Dave Williams]

Your plan to run in an area with loose aggressive pit bulls violates 2 of Farnam’s Rules:

1. Don’t go stupid places and 2. Do stupid things

The last is 3. With stupid people.

It sucks, but it’s reality.

I’m not a fan of pits either.

They are amazing creatures, tough, athletic, etc. it’s like having a mountain lion loose in your neighborhood.

[Dave Williams]

Also, I live in Ohio, and it’s a pretty nice place to live. All 4 seasons, no natural disasters, no fire ants, decent firearms training opportunities, decent gun laws, great breweries, winery’s, and distilleries,I could go on.

[blues]

Apparently, according to someone's definition, I also live in the "hood"...western NC mountain style. And I have had encounters with several loose dogs, as well as their owners. And nobody has shot anyone (yet). (I even know several folks from Ohio around here.)

I know, it's only been 20 years...so I'll give it time.

Funny thing is, I had this conversation with the guy who is to install my whole house generator, (who as it happens is from Ohio)...the folks I've met around here from OH seem to be about the nicest folks I've met.

I hope I don't have to shoot any dogs, after having two physical altercations with loose dogs in the past few months.

[Warped Mindless]

Warped Mindless, your situation sucks. There's really no good answer. Being an off-leash dog vigilante is not likely to end well for you. I'm not sure what I would do. We have had some issues with off-leash dogs in our neighborhood, and pocket OC spray solved the problem three times. I guess you could try running with bear spray or a riot-fogger, but blowback from OC is likely. And, owners may get into it with you for spraying their fur baby.

I’m not sure minding my own business and shooting an attacking dog makes me an “off leash vigilante” any more than a dude getting mugged at the ATM and shooting the mugger makes him “Batman; criminal vigilante” but I see your point.

The simple solution seems to be just not to run but it doesn’t sit well with me that I can’t enjoy a freedom and a pleasure because of a bunch of bad dog owners. While that’s not the way shut is supposed to work, I suppose that’s life.

How many dogs, and possibly dog owners, am I willing to shoot to enjoy that freedom? Its not worth the hassle I guess…

[Warped Mindless]

Apparently, according to someone's definition, I also live in the "hood"...western NC mountain style. And I have had encounters with several loose dogs, as well as their owners. And nobody has shot anyone (yet). (I even know several folks from Ohio around here.)

I know, it's only been 20 years...so I'll give it time.

Funny thing is, I had this conversation with the guy who is to install my whole house generator, (who as it happens is from Ohio)...the folks I've met around here from OH seem to be about the nicest folks I've met.

I hope I don't have to shoot any dogs, after having two physical altercations with loose dogs in the past few months.

Funny this is, this new area I live in has less drugs, almost no crime, and most of the dog owners are decent people… they just make horrible dog owners. The number one cause of any violence in this area is from dogs. Having pitts and lifted trucks around here is the “cool thing” right now and people buy them, often end up neglecting them, and allows them to get loose.

[CCT125US]

Hello from Ohio.

I've heard it said that "Any person who would shoot my dog, better have a lightning fast reholster, or I will take them to be an active deadly threat to my life, and respond accordingly."

The things you hear.

[pangloss]

I'd load up with pepper spray and a clinch pick.

Sent from my moto g power (2021) using Tapatalk

[JimCunn]

I've never lived in a State where people leash or pen their dogs. Doing so seems weird to me.
In 80+ years, I've never been attacked by a dog.

[Wondering Beard]

I haven't had a dog since my teens and dogs around here are all leashed, so I ask the following out of total ignorance on how people care (or don't) for their dogs:

Would it be a good idea to carry dog treats for uncertain dog encounters?

[Utm]

Funny this is, this new area I live in has less drugs, almost no crime, and most of the dog owners are decent people… they just make horrible dog owners. The number one cause of any violence in this area is from dogs. Having pitts and lifted trucks around here is the “cool thing” right now and people buy them, often end up neglecting them, and allows them to get loose.

Pepper spray is a good option. I would not hesitate to put a dog down that I felt was going to bite me.

[shane45]

The problem is the number of people I have seen in a full on panic over a dog being playful. Case in point my Shiba Inu puppy that was maybe 8 pounds(around 28 pounds full grown) backed the meter reader up and tugged on his pant leg. He fell backwards screaming he was bit. I had a few choice words for him and kicked him off the property.

[HCM]

The problem is the number of people I have seen in a full on panic over a dog being playful. Case in point my Shiba Inu puppy that was maybe 8 pounds(around 28 pounds full grown) backed the meter reader up and tugged on his pant leg. He fell backwards screaming he was bit. I had a few choice words for him and kicked him off the property.

This ^^^.

[Crusader]

I understand completely, it’s a rotten position to be but in. You should be able to run/jog in your own neighborhood without worrying about somebody’s loose dog attacking you and who the hell wants to run/jog with a full duty belt just so you have less lethal options.

That said, shooting the dog could lead to so many problems and trouble. Financial and safety wise in the long run, really no easy answer to this.

I had to make that decision once while mountain biking on a canal bank in a very rural area, I carried a Shield 9 and an expandable baton on the bike. Dog chased me down, he didn’t want to play I put the bike between him and me. Made a decision to grab the baton, not the gun. Reached over the bike and smacked him in the head, he welp and took off running the other way.

But it was not a Pit and I had the bike between me and options, without the bike or if it was a pit I might have picked the gun.

Think if this was a very real issue for me on a regular basis, I’d carry a small OC with me too and hope that keeps me from having to use the gun.

[HCM]

But it was not a Pit and I had the bike between me and options, without the bike or if it was a pit I might have picked the gun.

Think if this was a very real issue for me on a regular basis, I’d carry a small OC with me too and hope that keeps me from having to use the gun.

Using the bike as a barrier was a good call. That said…

Please explain why pit vs non pit is an objective factor ?

A dog large enough to be a threat and displaying (actual) aggressive behavior (both objective factors) is a threat justifying use of force. Being in a remote area / far from help if injured could also be an objective factor.

But what difference does the breed make ?

It seems purely subjective.

Because as a subjective (feelings) factor if we substitute a human threat for a dog threat it sounds a lot like this: if “some-dude” chased you down and threatened you with a weapon and you chose not to shoot him because he wasn’t race “X,” but if he was an “X” you would have shot him.

One would then expect to hear something like “because you know those X people are (scary, athletic, have hard heads, don’t feel pain) etc.”

How does that sound in 2023 America ?

[MickAK]

I haven't had a dog since my teens and dogs around here are all leashed, so I ask the following out of total ignorance on how people care (or don't) for their dogs:

Would it be a good idea to carry dog treats for uncertain dog encounters?

No. That's mostly a movie thing. The impulse that moves a dog to attack is very different from 'Ooo, treat' and they won't even notice. If a dog gets distracted by a treat it wasn't going to attack, it was just being a dog, which can be scary.

[pangloss]

Using the bike as a barrier was a good call. That said…

Please explain why pit vs non pit is an objective factor ?

A dog large enough to be a threat and displaying (actual) aggressive behavior (both objective factors) is a threat justifying use of force. Being in a remote area / far from help if injured could also be an objective factor.

But what difference does the breed make ?

It seems purely subjective.

Because as a subjective (feelings) factor if we substitute a human threat for a dog threat it sounds a lot like this: if “some-dude” chased you down and threatened you with a weapon and you chose not to shoot him because he wasn’t race “X,” but if he was an “X” you would have shot him.

One would then expect to hear something like “because you know those X people are (scary, athletic, have hard heads, don’t feel pain) etc.”

How does that sound in 2023 America ?

It makes a difference because of the athleticism is the breed. If you had to fight a dog, would you pick a standard poodle or a pit bull of equal weight. The breed also has a well-deserved reputation for unprovoked attacks, one of which happened nextdoor to me.

Sent from my moto g power (2021) using Tapatalk

[Gadfly]

Please explain why pit vs non pit is an objective factor ?

But what difference does the breed make ?

It seems purely subjective.



Because 2/3 dog mauling deaths are caused by pit bulls? That’s just math. Obviously there are sweet loving pits. And obviously there are aggressive pits bred specifically to be fighting dogs.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230426/e197ddd48d3e0446daea9096cc004591.jpg
————

I have gone out of my way as a LEO to try and make friends with every dog I have encountered on the job. I usually have beef jerky or crackers in the car. If we have to hop a fence or such, a slim Jim or peanut butter cracker slipped between fence boards has calmed most dogs. Went 45 years of my life without having any issues with dogs, and not understanding why anyone would shoot a dog.

But…
I have now been on the receiving end of a German Shepard bite. It got my left forearm and shook me like a rag doll. Fighting a dog with both hands would be a challenge. Fighting a 110lb dog with only one had was going to damn near impossible. I would have had to shoot it if the owner (a friend) was not there to immediately pry its mouth open.

You don’t realize the power of that bite or how easily it will take you off your feet until you experience it. If there is more than one dog, and two of your limbs are out of the fight, you are screwed. A trained police dog will bite and hold a limb. That’s how they train. A random aggressive dog? Who knows if wants to go for your face or throat? Is it worth the risk?

A few antibiotic shots, some stitches and a lot of bruising left me with a valuable lesson. I will NOT get bit again. If someone’s dog is off leash and charging? Well, it might end badly.


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[Crusader]

Using the bike as a barrier was a good call. That said…

Please explain why pit vs non pit is an objective factor ?

A dog large enough to be a threat and displaying (actual) aggressive behavior (both objective factors) is a threat justifying use of force. Being in a remote area / far from help if injured could also be an objective factor.

But what difference does the breed make ?

It seems purely subjective.

Because as a subjective (feelings) factor if we substitute a human threat for a dog threat it sounds a lot like this: if “some-dude” chased you down and threatened you with a weapon and you chose not to shoot him because he wasn’t race “X,” but if he was an “X” you would have shot him.

One would then expect to hear something like “because you know those X people are (scary, athletic, have hard heads, don’t feel pain) etc.”

How does that sound in 2023 America ?

Pits can be incredibly aggressive and almost immune to pain when they are in attack mode, while most other dogs can be deterred with a baton strike that’s not always the case when it comes to pit bulls. Dog breeds are in fact different, you can’t make the same comparison with people. Dogs are breed to be a certain way, strong aggressive and being able to endure pain is what the pit was breed for. Add in a POS owner that treats and trains the dog to be so and there often is no quit in them until you kill them. Sorry but dog breeds are very different and there is ample proof of it.

[HCM]

It makes a difference because of the athleticism is the breed. If you had to fight a dog, would you pick a standard poodle or a pit bull of equal weight. The breed also has a well-deserved reputation for unprovoked attacks, one of which happened nextdoor to me.

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1) All dogs are more “athletic” than humans so it’s a given not a variable but for arguments sake there are plenty of breeds more athletic / agile than pits.

2) doesn’t matter - not because pits are harmless but because you don’t understand what an aggressive standard poodle is actually capable of. A pit may have a stronger bite but an aggressive 70lb plus hunting dog quicker and more agile than a pit is no joke. Either one is a bad day.

3) Pits / pit mixes are one of the most common dog types in America. Many people don’t realize how common dog attacks (all types) are in general.

[HCM]

Pits can be incredibly aggressive and almost immune to pain when they are in attack mode, while most other dogs can be deterred with a baton strike that’s not always the case when it comes to pit bulls. Dog breeds are in fact different, you can’t make the same comparison with people. Dogs are breed to be a certain way, strong aggressive and being able to endure pain is what the pit was breed for. Add in a POS owner that treats and trains the dog to be so and there often is no quit in them until you kill them. Sorry but dog breeds are very different and there is ample proof of it.

There is an unfortunate correlation of POS humans being attracted to owning pits

All dogs can be incredibly aggressive. It’s not unique to pits. I’ve been bitten by both a German Shepard and a Lab. Do you know those good wholesome white people dogs.

Animals generally have higher resistance to pain than humans but they are not immune to it.

The rest is simply an alleged certainty fallacy i.e. “Everybody knows that X is true.” Therefore, X is true.

[HCM]

Because 2/3 dog mauling deaths are caused by pit bulls? That’s just math. Obviously there are sweet loving pits. And obviously there are aggressive pits bred specifically to be fighting dogs.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230426/e197ddd48d3e0446daea9096cc004591.jpg
————

I have gone out of my way as a LEO to try and make friends with every dog I have encountered on the job. I usually have beef jerky or crackers in the car. If we have to hop a fence or such, a slim Jim or peanut butter cracker slipped between fence boards has calmed most dogs. Went 45 years of my life without having any issues with dogs, and not understanding why anyone would shoot a dog.

But…
I have now been on the receiving end of a German Shepard bite. It got my left forearm and shook me like a rag doll. Fighting a dog with both hands would be a challenge. Fighting a 110lb dog with only one had was going to damn near d . I awould have had to shoot it if the owner (a friend) was not there to immediately pry its mouth open.

You don’t realize the power of that bite or how easily it will take you off your feet until you experience it. If there is more than one dog, and two of your limbs are out of the fight, you are screwed. A trained police dog will bite and hold a limb. That’s how they train. A random aggressive dog? Who knows if wants to go for your face or throat? Is it worth the risk?

A few antibiotic shots, some stitches and a lot of bruising left me with a valuable lesson. I will NOT get bit again. If someone’s dog is off leash and charging? Well, it might end badly.


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Have been bitten by both a GS and a Lab plus Had a dog shooting (Rottweiler intentionally released on us by an suspects son) and almost had a second (pit) who had recently bitten his owner (a sex offender) so you don’t have to sell me on the threat dogs in general can pose. Nor is that my argument.

My argument is any dog large enough to be a threat displaying aggressive behavior is a threat. The whole nonsense about puts being somehow “immune to pain” or things like baton strikes or OC vs other breeds is nonsense. Various force options are going to be equally effective or not effective on any aggressive large breed dog. The rest is simply an alleged certainty fallacy.


Pits are one of the three most common dog breeds in the United States so their being involved in a majority of attacks is no surprise. The other two most common being labs and Chihuahuas. Chihuahuas bite people all the time. I’ve been bitten by chihuahuas twice and a lab once. I blame the lab bite squarely on the owner and Chihuahua bites simply don’t get reported in most cases because they rarely cause significant injury.

[Warped Mindless]

Have been bitten by both a GS and a Lab plus Had a dog shooting (Rottweiler intentionally released on us by an suspects son) and almost had a second (pit) who had recently bitten his owner (a sex offender) so you don’t have to sell me on the threat dogs in general can pose. Nor is that my argument.

My argument is any dog large enough to be a threat displaying aggressive behavior is a threat. The whole nonsense about puts being somehow “immune to pain” or things like baton strikes or OC vs other breeds is nonsense. Various force options are going to be equally effective or not effective on any aggressive large breed dog. The rest is simply an alleged certainty fallacy.


Pits are one of the three most common dog breeds in the United States so their being involved in a majority of attacks is no surprise. The other two most common being labs and Chihuahuas. Chihuahuas bite people all the time. I’ve been bitten by chihuahuas twice and a lab once. I blame the lab bite squarely on the owner and Chihuahua bites simply don’t get reported in most cases because they rarely cause significant injury.

I googled it and I can’t find where pitts are even in the top 10 most common here in the states.

You seem to take issue with us saying that certain breeds are more aggressive than other breeds. I don’t think any of us are denying that all dogs can be dangerous and mean, but to say that a breed that was bread specifically for violence and aggression is something to be more cautious around than something like a poodle… well that’s just the truth.

[Hambo]

I have gone out of my way as a LEO to try and make friends with every dog I have encountered on the job. I usually have beef jerky or crackers in the car. If we have to hop a fence or such, a slim Jim or peanut butter cracker slipped between fence boards has calmed most dogs.


Good strategy.


1) All dogs are more “athletic” than humans so it’s a given not a variable but for arguments sake there are plenty of breeds more athletic / agile than pits.


If I were as athletic as my 10 month old Lab, I'd be doing 6' box jumps.

This thread has gone the same route as all before it. To Warped I say, as my beloved grandfather used to before I engaged in something stupid and/or dangerous, "I wouldn't do it that way."

[pangloss]

1) All dogs are more “athletic” than humans so it’s a given not a variable but for arguments sake there are plenty of breeds more athletic / agile than pits.

2) doesn’t matter - not because pits are harmless but because you don’t understand what an aggressive standard poodle is actually capable of. A pit may have a stronger bite but an aggressive 70lb plus hunting dog quicker and more agile than a pit is no joke. Either one is a bad day.

3) Pits / pit mixes are one of the most common dog types in America. Many people don’t realize how common dog attacks (all types) are in general.

1) You have not met "all dogs." I'm not particularly athletic, but I am certainly more athletic than some of my neighbor dogs, particularly the geriatric ones. The beagle and chihuahua across the street may have been forces to reckon with in their day, but I could crush either of them today. And today is all that matters.

2) Athletic ability, like IQ and good looks, exists within a population as a distribution. Some people are on the smart end of the curve and others are not. As a breed, pits are on the athletic end of the athleticism spectrum. If you randomly chose ten pits and compared their ability to ten chihuahuas, it is almost 100% certain that the pits could run faster, jump higher, and bite harder than the chihuahuas.

3) Pits are indeed common. The two people I know personally know well (1st cousin and next-door neighbor) who suffered dog attacks that required medical treatment were both attached by pit bulls.

Just found this: "DogsBite.org recorded 46 fatal dog attacks in 2020. Pit bulls contributed to 72% (33) of these deaths, over 16 times higher than any other dog breed."
https://blog.dogsbite.org/2021/06/2020-dog-bite-fatality-statistics-discussion.html

I don't think pits are 16x more popular than the second most popular dog breed.

[TGS]

So, hoping to hear from some more experienced members in this area but, in general, what are the requirements for shooting a dog that gives chase and one that you believe is aggressive?

Generally*, the same as shooting any other living being: an articulation that you were in fear of grievous bodily harm or death, and that articulation meeting the reasonable man standard. An articulation isn't just a statement that you were scared of getting bit; an articulation is citing specific observations about the attacker's actions and behaviors (to include history) that made you believe you were at risk of grievous bodily harm. Just because you've been bitten 3 times does not give you the right to shoot any dog that starts chasing you while you're out jogging.

This thread reads more like you're pissed off and almost want to find a reason to shoot a dog as opposed to giving any critical thought to your situation. That's likely why you got the "vigilante" comment from Clusterfrack, or the comment by Hambo, both of whom are overwhelmingly helpful dudes that don't shitpost just to get under peoples' skin. IMO, it's not the best read for you if a prosecutor were to get their hands on it after you were to shoot a dog and have things go sideways.

*state specific laws may outline more detailed situations in dispatching animals, but this is the general rule of thumb.

[CraigS]

HCM do you have a dog? If so, what breed is it?

[jh9]

1) You have not met "all dogs." I'm not particularly athletic, but I am certainly more athletic than some of my neighbor dogs, particularly the geriatric ones. The beagle and chihuahua across the street may have been forces to reckon with in their day, but I could crush either of them today. And today is all that matters.

2) Athletic ability, like IQ and good looks, exists within a population as a distribution. Some people are on the smart end of the curve and others are not. As a breed, pits are on the athletic end of the athleticism spectrum. If you randomly chose ten pits and compared their ability to ten chihuahuas, it is almost 100% certain that the pits could run faster, jump higher, and bite harder than the chihuahuas.

3) Pits are indeed common. The two people I know personally know well (1st cousin and next-door neighbor) who suffered dog attacks that required medical treatment were both attached by pit bulls.

Just found this: "DogsBite.org recorded 46 fatal dog attacks in 2020. Pit bulls contributed to 72% (33) of these deaths, over 16 times higher than any other dog breed."
https://blog.dogsbite.org/2021/06/2020-dog-bite-fatality-statistics-discussion.html

I don't think pits are 16x more popular than the second most popular dog breed.

I don't think a blog on "dogsbite.org" is an objective data source.

I've seen in a couple places that cite the CDC, but I don't see CDC data directly. The WHO (https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/animal-bites) cites the CDC and says the average is 885k require 'medical attention' annually. 30k require some sort of reconstructive surgery. Actual deaths are pretty low at 10-20.

The "30k require some sort of reconstructive surgery" is a bit of a surprise. 885k requiring "medical attention" can range from minor to anything short of "reconstructive surgery". I assume "a fuckton of stitches" probably falls in that 885k figure. How much of that vs just needing a band-aid isn't clarified.

Dogs are an emotional topic where people do emotional things. It kind of feels like how LE describe a lot of domestic violence calls. Fight starts with one of them then you're dealing with both of them. I have better things to do with the time and money that would pay for medical treatment after dealing with the dog attack and lawyers after dealing with the belligerent owner. It sucks to lose public spaces like parks because shitty people and their poorly socialized, aggressive dogs have created a content where it just isn't worth it. But it is what it is.

[HCM]

HCM do you have a dog? If so, what breed is it?

Currently a mastiff / lab mix but I’ve had both a pit and a pit mix before and would not hesitate to have one again given the same temperament standards one would apply to getting any dog.

Not that it’s relevant to the Fudd lore arguments re Pits advanced in every dog thread here.

My observation that areas where people intentionally let their dogs run loose is the hood / a place to avoid is based on spending my average work day in such places and encountering the dogs (loose and otherwise) found there in the course of those activities. The majority are pits and pit mixes so my experience is not based solely on my dog(s).

[jh9]

This thread reads more like you're pissed off and almost want to find a reason to shoot a dog as opposed to giving any critical thought to your situation. That's likely why you got the "vigilante" comment from

Really? I didn't read it like that at all.

The whole thing reads to me like acknowledging that there's a potential threat and having the awareness to realize that once a fight starts it's likely downhill from there. So it's best to realize the pre-fight cues and know ahead of time where the threshold is for the fight to be something other than one-way. (And the ultimate, obvious conclusion of "yea it sucks but don't run in neighborhoods with a bunch of shitty dog owners' off leash pits.")

I absolutely, positively do not want to shoot a dog or any other sentient creature. But I also absolutely, positively will not just stand idly by and get mauled. Dogs aren't different from people in that once they start a fight only they know where they're going to stop. You have no choice but to respond accordingly.

The undercurrent of everyone in society needs to learn some dog whisperer skills because shitty people can't be bothered to socialize their animals is... bizarre. But then again I'm not a dog person. And I don't think I should have to be in order to not end up in court or the ER just because I was checking the mail.

[blues]

Pits can be incredibly aggressive and almost immune to pain when they are in attack mode, while most other dogs can be deterred with a baton strike that’s not always the case when it comes to pit bulls. Dog breeds are in fact different, you can’t make the same comparison with people. Dogs are breed to be a certain way, strong aggressive and being able to endure pain is what the pit was breed for. Add in a POS owner that treats and trains the dog to be so and there often is no quit in them until you kill them. Sorry but dog breeds are very different and there is ample proof of it.

As I recently found out and discussed in another thread. I kicked and beat the tar out of that dog on its back and spine with a blackthorn stick and it didn't release from aggressing against my dog...and I'm not a shrinking violet. (I couldn't get a head shot with the stick because of the proximity of their heads in the fight.)

The "stick" I am carrying now would break its back, I've no doubt. (I am still loathe to shoot one, let alone stab one, unless I feel there is no other way out.)

[HCM]

1) You have not met "all dogs." I'm not particularly athletic, but I am certainly more athletic than some of my neighbor dogs, particularly the geriatric ones. The beagle and chihuahua across the street may have been forces to reckon with in their day, but I could crush either of them today. And today is all that matters.

2) Athletic ability, like IQ and good looks, exists within a population as a distribution. Some people are on the smart end of the curve and others are not. As a breed, pits are on the athletic end of the athleticism spectrum. If you randomly chose ten pits and compared their ability to ten chihuahuas, it is almost 100% certain that the pits could run faster, jump higher, and bite harder than the chihuahuas.

3) Pits are indeed common. The two people I know personally know well (1st cousin and next-door neighbor) who suffered dog attacks that required medical treatment were both attached by pit bulls.

Just found this: "DogsBite.org recorded 46 fatal dog attacks in 2020. Pit bulls contributed to 72% (33) of these deaths, over 16 times higher than any other dog breed."
https://blog.dogsbite.org/2021/06/2020-dog-bite-fatality-statistics-discussion.html

I don't think pits are 16x more popular than the second most popular dog breed.

Dog bite.org is not a credible source.

First their sub-title “because sone dogs don’t let go” makes their position clear.

104007

Second, not because they’re wrong and “my” data is right, but rather because Their (Dogbite.org’s) data is inaccurate and they are misrepresenting it. ANY data about dog attacks is inaccurate, because studies have repeatedly proven that breed identification by witnesses, shelter workers and veterinarians is often inaccurate. Given my experience with the reliability of witnesses in other matters this is not surprising.


A study done by Dr. James Serpell and team says the following:

Dog bite statistics are potentially misleading for several reasons: (a) most dog bites go unreported unless medical attention is sought (which may be more likely with larger breeds that have the ability to inflict more serious injury); (b) the total number of dogs of a given breed in the local community is seldom known, so the degree to which that breed is over-represented among reported dog bites is usually undetermined (Lockwood, 1995; however see Gershman et al., 1994; Guy et al., 2001b; Reisner et al., 2005); and (c) in many cases the breed of dog involved cannot be verified (Wright, 1991).


None of this means an aggressive pit isn’t a threat. It’s just no more (or less) of a threat than any other aggressive large breed.

[Warped Mindless]

Generally*, the same as shooting any other living being: an articulation that you were in fear of grievous bodily harm or death, and that articulation meeting the reasonable man standard. An articulation isn't just a statement that you were scared of getting bit; an articulation is citing specific observations about the attacker's actions and behaviors (to include history) that made you believe you were at risk of grievous bodily harm. Just because you've been bitten 3 times does not give you the right to shoot any dog that starts chasing you while you're out jogging.

This thread reads more like you're pissed off and almost want to find a reason to shoot a dog as opposed to giving any critical thought to your situation. That's likely why you got the "vigilante" comment from Clusterfrack, or the comment by Hambo, both of whom are overwhelmingly helpful dudes that don't shitpost just to get under peoples' skin. IMO, it's not the best read for you if a prosecutor were to get their hands on it after you were to shoot a dog and have things go sideways.

*state specific laws may outline more detailed situations in dispatching animals, but this is the general rule of thumb.

Thanks for the answer.

If I go the rest of my life without ever having to kill another living thing (except spiders), I’ll be a happy man. In retrospect, the tone of my first post could have been a bit different but no, I’m not looking to kill any animals. I don’t even hunt.

[CraigS]

I was just curious. I see your point about not prejudging based on breed but admit that I probably would. I know pits don't automatically have to be killers, and I haven't researched this but, in my experience, a huge percentage of news items about someone being injured or killed by a dog turns out it was a pit. To me the difference between finding out if the dog will actually be biting me vs a preemptive shot will be about 3 seconds. Lots of thinking and decision making to happen in 3 seconds.

[Warped Mindless]

Really? I didn't read it like that at all.

The whole thing reads to me like acknowledging that there's a potential threat and having the awareness to realize that once a fight starts it's likely downhill from there. So it's best to realize the pre-fight cues and know ahead of time where the threshold is for the fight to be something other than one-way. (And the ultimate, obvious conclusion of "yea it sucks but don't run in neighborhoods with a bunch of shitty dog owners' off leash pits.")

I absolutely, positively do not want to shoot a dog or any other sentient creature. But I also absolutely, positively will not just stand idly by and get mauled. Dogs aren't different from people in that once they start a fight only they know where they're going to stop. You have no choice but to respond accordingly.

The undercurrent of everyone in society needs to learn some dog whisperer skills because shitty people can't be bothered to socialize their animals is... bizarre. But then again I'm not a dog person. And I don't think I should have to be in order to not end up in court or the ER just because I was checking the mail.

My feelings exactly!

[Dave Williams]

None of this means an aggressive pit isn’t a threat. It’s just no more (or less) of a threat than any other aggressive large breed.

So I thought this was utter BS, and I called my Animal Control Officer for her opinion. She has 25yrs experience in an inner ring suburb loaded with pit bulls, I've seen her do some really crazy stuff. She agreed with your statement and said she'd rather go against a pit than an Akita or a German Shepherd.

[Zincwarrior]

Be prepared for an immediate, aggressive confrontation with the dog’s owners if you shoot someone’s dog.

I would proffer a really good pepper spray/mace would be better. A follow on confrontation would be less likely, and the police aren't coming / you being sued because you sprayed Biff the lovable house pet vs. blasting away in the street.

[Gadfly]

People thought Chows were a huge threat...
Then people thought German Shepards were a huge threat...
Then People thought Dobermans were a huge threat...
Then People thought Rottweilers were a huge threat...
Then People thought Pits were a huge threat...
Who know what the next breed will be that people and the media flip out about.

I get that any dog can be a threat. But I am not that worried about a beagle bite...

SIDE NOTES:
My dad tells of when he was a child in the 1940s. The lived next door to a retired preacher and his wife. They had a chow. One day, the chow flipped out and mauled the elderly pastor, BADLY. As my Grandfather pulled into the driveway, he heard the wife screaming, as she was trying to pull the dog off her husband, and was getting bit too. Granddad was a carpenter, so he grabbed a hunk of 2x4 from the bed of his truck, and knocked the dog off the preacher. The dog then came at him and got another taste of Texas pine. So the dog went back to the preacher. Granddad went back to the truck for his M1 Carbine, and ended the problem. The preacher died of his wounds a few weeks later. His wife had permanent hand injuries... My dad was very distrustful of Chows. I will end up with the M1-carbine from that day.

When I was an apartment manager, my maintenance man's young son was bit in the face by the family dog.. a chow mix. kid lived, but had like 20-30 stiches on his little face. Scars for life. Maintenance man put the dog down...

END of RANDOM RAMBLINGS....

[HCM]

I was just curious. I see your point about not prejudging based on breed but admit that I probably would. I know pits don't automatically have to be killers, and I haven't researched this but, in my experience, a huge percentage of news items about someone being injured or killed by a dog turns out it was a pit. To me the difference between finding out if the dog will actually be biting me vs a preemptive shot will be about 3 seconds. Lots of thinking and decision making to happen in 3 seconds.

What does and doesn’t make the news is selective / locally driven at best - manipulated at worst.

Not to mention I’ve been present for a party to events that were covered by the media, and could barely recognize it as the same event based on their coverage.

I’ve personally seen both LEOs and regular people who have 1) reacted to any medium to large dog as a threat regardless of breed or behavior because / afraid of dogs and / or 2) reacted any pit as a threat regress of behavior because / pit and then fail to react to actual aggressive or warning behavior by other breeds they consider “nice.”

For background my city particularly the east and west sides has a huge problem with loose dogs and strays. Our relatively mild winters enhance the problem to the point there are NGO groups dedicated to facilitating adoptions of our strays to northern states and Canada where there are fewer strays available for adoption as most of their local strats don’t make it through the winters.

[Robinson]

I live in Ohio. For those who don’t know, in Ohio, everyone and their mother owns a pitbull.

Why?

I have no idea but it’s ridiculous because the vast majority of owners are NOT responsible.

Anyways, now that warmer months are upon us I want to start running outside again but curious about the legalities of shooting an aggressive dog that gives chase.

I’ve been bit by attacking dogs before and I will NOT allow that to happen again.

I’ve been around enough dogs to know when one is just being playful and chasing for fun. I get that and bo worries. My concern is the unchained pitt that starts aggressively chasing.

Here is the deal… I know all the “typical” advice of stopping, turning sideways, not looking the dog in the eyes and slowly backing away and I’m not doing ANY of that. Who ever wrote that BS hasn’t had to deal with the dogs around here.

I also get that the most obvious COA is to run elsewhere but there is no where in my AO that doesn’t have aggressive dogs around and frankly I’m sick of not being able to run outside.

So, hoping to hear from some more experienced members in this area but, in general, what are the requirements for shooting a dog that gives chase and one that you believe is aggressive?

Again, just to restate, I’ve been attacked by dogs before and I’m not ever allowing that to happen again so if it seems I’m “to quick to what to shoot the poor fur baby” that’s why.

If you are attacked by a dog and faced with death or serious injury you have a right to use lethal force to defend yourself. I think it's fair to say the membership of this forum is generally supportive of the right to legitimate self defense. However...

Knowingly and willingly putting yourself in a situation in which you are likely to face a dog problem that can only be solved by using lethal force sounds like a good way to guarantee you will at some point be faced with an unpleasant and possibly dangerous problem with a human.

[CraigS]

What does and doesn’t make the news is selective / locally driven at best - manipulated at worst.

Not to mention I’ve been present for a party to events that were covered by the media, and could barely recognize it as the same event based on their coverage.



So true. We live on a street w/ 9 houses all on about 5ac of woods w/ 1/2 to 1ac cleared for house and yard. Previously we had 2 ac completely fenced so we could walk out sheltie/border collie mix w/o a leach. WE thought this would be similar and it was until a couple moved into the empty house next door. Husband and wife and I get along great. Wife we are fine with but she isn't outside much and it turns out she is scared of dogs. I do the 630a walk w/o leash but the 3p walk at least partly w/ leash after an incident. Husband sent me a text a month ago w/ a pic the wife had sent him of 2 medium dogs in their front yard. I thought dang she is inside, 2 dogs are outside, where is the problem? I texted him I will walk around his house and report back. As I am doing that he texts me more saying the 2 dogs are now at another house 1/4 mile away and one had backed the man (45yr old self employed 6ft contractor who is in good shape) up into a corner between a building and dumpster. Animal control called, all turned out fine no injuries, the 2 dogs had been recently adopted and the owner didn't realize they would jump a 3ft fence. The aggressive one back to the agency and our problem solved. Wife is a professor so not always a 9-5 schedule. After the above, on my 3p walk I start w/ a leash out to the road and up the road in front of their house. Once I am sure she isn't there, I remove the leash. Our dog is a super lover rub you, snuggle, keep himself under your hand for scratches. Friendly as can be but...he goes full speed to anyone he sees walking so I can sure see how someone could misinterpret his run as an attack.

[HCM]

So true. We live on a street w/ 9 houses all on about 5ac of woods w/ 1/2 to 1ac cleared for house and yard. Previously we had 2 ac completely fenced so we could walk out sheltie/border collie mix w/o a leach. WE thought this would be similar and it was until a couple moved into the empty house next door. Husband and wife and I get along great. Wife we are fine with but she isn't outside much and it turns out she is scared of dogs. I do the 630a walk w/o leash but the 3p walk at least partly w/ leash after an incident. Husband sent me a text a month ago w/ a pic the wife had sent him of 2 medium dogs in their front yard. I thought dang she is inside, 2 dogs are outside, where is the problem? I texted him I will walk around his house and report back. As I am doing that he texts me more saying the 2 dogs are now at another house 1/4 mile away and one had backed the man (45yr old self employed 6ft contractor who is in good shape) up into a corner between a building and dumpster. Animal control called, all turned out fine no injuries, the 2 dogs had been recently adopted and the owner didn't realize they would jump a 3ft fence. The aggressive one back to the agency and our problem solved. Wife is a professor so not always a 9-5 schedule. After the above, on my 3p walk I start w/ a leash out to the road and up the road in front of their house. Once I am sure she isn't there, I remove the leash. Our dog is a super lover rub you, snuggle, keep himself under your hand for scratches. Friendly as can be but...he goes full speed to anyone he sees walking so I can sure see how someone could misinterpret his run as an attack.

Whenever I take my dog off my property, he’s on a leash unless we’re in a fenced in dog park. Not because I couldn’t walk him without a leash, he’s compliant with voice commands, but just so there are no misunderstandings.

The only time he’s out, but not on a leash is in my front yard / driveway when I am present.

No issues, other than one rather neurotic lady who was walking her dog and started screaming when he looked at her and her dog. Mind you he did not leave the yard or even take a step towards them. All he did was look at them.

[HCM]

My observation that areas where people intentionally let their dogs run loose is the hood / a place to avoid is based on spending my average work day in such places and encountering the dogs (loose and otherwise) found there in the course of those activities. The majority are pits and pit mixes so my experience is not based solely on my dog(s).

Speaking of 2nd and 3rd order effects in such areas:


https://www.expressnews.com/news/article/new-details-woman-dogs-hit-and-run-17919628.php?sid=5ffd9f3e4cbb1a4ff15a293e&ss=A&st_rid=32ea9280-bcd8-48eb-b426-c241a05e279d&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=headlines&utm_campaign=SAEN_210Report



New details in case of woman attacked by dogs, then struck by hit-and-run driver
Police released a description of the car that plowed into the woman Saturday night on the Northwest Side. The victim was found lying on the ground, bleeding from the head.



Police are looking for a white, four-door Honda sedan that struck a pedestrian as she tried to get away from a pack of dogs on the Northwest Side over the weekend.

The description of the car is included in a San Antonio Police Department report on the incident. The driver of the Honda did not stop after hitting the 38-year-old woman in the 2200 block of Bandera Road, near Evers Road, at 8:25 p.m. Saturday.

When police arrived, they saw the victim lying on the ground, bleeding from her head.

Three people witnessed the incident, the police report says.

The victim's name and the three witnesses' names were redacted from the report.

The victim had crossed Bandera Road and was walking on a sidewalk when a "pack of dogs" began to bark and lunge toward her, according to an initial account provided by SAPD.

The woman backed away from the dogs, stepped into the road and was struck by the white Honda.

She was taken to University Hospital with minor injuries and underwent surgery.

The driver, if identified by police, will be charged with failure to stop and render aid, a third-degree felony. If convicted, the driver could face two to 10 years in prison and a fine of up to $10,000.

[Crusader]

Had to laugh, I stumbled across this vid today. Kind of long a tedious, but fits here.

https://youtu.be/HIdLpcPgoRM

[DDTSGM]

In my life I’ve been attacked by three dogs. All pits. So yeah, maybe you don’t know shit about me.

Haven't read the rest of the thread, and I agree that the 'you don't know fvck all about dogs' was unnecessary, but in this case don't shoot the messenger. His advice regarding OC spray was spot on.

My take is that if you are running - versus jogging - your heart rate will be elevated, and while if you are conditioned you may not be gasping for vbreath, you will still have increased respiration. All of which makes firing a pistol accurately more of a challenge - note I said more of a challenge not impossible.

Additionally, engaging the moving target adds complexity to the task. I've been around a couple of officers who were poodle-shooters and my recollection is more misses than hits. Mag dumping to get a hit isn't the way to go.

OTOH, with the OC streamer you have a visible agent stream to guide you to the dog and keep you on target.

I would use the OC streamer - and get at least a Mark 2 size - as the first line of defense with you pistol as a back up.

My motto: Spray early and spray a bunch.

All those post men can't be wrong.

[Zincwarrior]

OTOH, with the OC streamer you have a visible agent stream to guide you to the dog and keep you on target.

I would use the OC streamer - and get at least a Mark 2 size - as the first line of defense with you pistol as a back up.

My motto: Spray early and spray a bunch.

All those post men can't be wrong.


Thread win.

[Gadfly]

My motto: Spray early and spray a bunch.



One of my instructors in the Sheriff's academy would say "When in doubt, the OC comes out." and "Spray early, spray often"

His logic was solid. "If you shoot someone, you cant un-shoot them. The damage is done. If you hit someone with a baton/flashlight, you cant unbreak that bone. But, if you spray someone, it will suck for them, but they will be back to normal and fine in an hour. If you spray them and it doesn't work, you can always shoot them later." Not exact, but a close paraphrase. Now, replace "someone" with "some dog" and it fits this thread.

I carry a POM OC most every day. Yet have not been carrying it or ANY weapon while jogging. I have lost OC cans and pocket knives on runs before, and just swapped to 95% of my runs being indoors on the treadmill. I never carried a gun while jogging because I sweat A LOT. My sweat would eat through a gun finish in no time. Indoor treadmills are not as healthy for me as a dose of sunshine and fresh air, but indoors it never rains, dogs never chase me, cars don't come within a foot of hitting me, mosquitos don't eat me up, its always 70 degrees...

[Robert Mitchum]

https://university.leerburg.com/Catalog/viewCourse/cid/137?utm_source=leerburg&utm_medium=internal&utm_campaign=homepage

[cracker]

we run into aggressive dogs while walking the trouts streams and have had the discussion with my friend about shooting an aggressive dog. While we are both dog people we know how people feel about their fur babies. So I have heard and will take the advise that if involved in a shoot not to leave the scene, grab the cell phone and call to report the incident even if no shots fired.
If it ever comes to the point I need to put a dog down I will be hoofing it toward the truck in a hurry while calling the cops, I am not going to hang around out in the country waiting for the owner to show up only to have more problems with the owner who may come armed and no witnesses.

[Stephanie B]

I was just curious. I see your point about not prejudging based on breed but admit that I probably would. I know pits don't automatically have to be killers, and I haven't researched this but, in my experience, a huge percentage of news items about someone being injured or killed by a dog turns out it was a pit. To me the difference between finding out if the dog will actually be biting me vs a preemptive shot will be about 3 seconds. Lots of thinking and decision making to happen in 3 seconds.

Up until a year or so ago, my roomie was a fan of The People's Court[1]. One time, Judge Milian was hearing a dogbite case. As the plaintiff was making her (or his, don't recall) case, the judge looked over at the bailiff and remarked "it's always a pit, isn't it".

Even here, I see more and more pits being walked off-leash in the woods. There were a lot more in Missouri, especially near an apartment complex that I called "Probation Estates". After an early-morning encounter with two large mutts that could have gone sideways, I put the J-frame back in the case and went with something a little heavier.

And a hardwood hiking stick.

[1] I came to like the show. Unlike that NYC harpy, Milian does a pretty good job of explaining the law to the parties. One could probably learn a good bit about civil law from her show.

[Shawn Dodson]

I go mountain biking in an area where there's the risk of encountering an aggressive dog(s).

I carry in my trunk bag an ASP expanding baton and a can of Fox Labs pepper spray for dealing with dogs.

If those don't work or are inappropriate for the situation, then I have a Glock 19 on my hip.

I carry less than lethal options because I don't want to shoot a dog but I also acknowledge I may not have that choice.

[Blades]

If you have one near you try a virtual range and ask if they have a dog attack scenario. It's quite a learning experience.