Stick an optic on a USP?

[KevH]

I've fallen back in love with the USP line. I carried my USP 40c LEM as pretty much my only gun last year and loved it.

I had been pondering for some time and finally made the decision to pickup a USP 9 (full size) and the parts to convert it to LEM. I should have the gun and kit within a couple weeks.

I have the holsters and gear to carry it sans-optic, but have been thinking about mounting a RMR on it. I've used pistol optics on and off for the past eight years, have attended a couple PMO instructor classes, but am still not sold on them being necessary for me. After lots of training and use they are advantageous for me at distance, but still a hinderance or break-even with irons within 15 yards.

If I do have this USP 9 milled, I'm thinking the Wright Armory I-Dot. Does anyone have experience with it?

Are there other options?

[CCT125US]

I will detail my thoughts when time permits.

I did the WA iDot.

[1slow]

I am very interested as well. HK USP 45 and 9.

[GJM]

Expect to see a run of USP 45 pistols, ready for an optic, soon.

https://www.lipseys.com/itemdetail?itemno=HKLTTUSP45FTJRM

[TC215]

Expect to see a run of USP 45 pistols, ready for an optic, soon.

https://www.lipseys.com/itemdetail?itemno=HKLTTUSP45FTJRM

Did not see that coming.

[WobblyPossum]

Expect to see a run of USP 45 pistols, ready for an optic, soon.

https://www.lipseys.com/itemdetail?itemno=HKLTTUSP45FTJRM

If they have another run of USP9s, I’ll probably be listing a few guns for sale to fund one.

[KevH]

I will detail my thoughts when time permits.

I did the WA iDot.

I'm looking forward to hearing what you think!

[Bucky]

Interesting. I’ve been pondering a USP compact milled for a dot.

[Archer1440]

Expect to see a run of USP 45 pistols, ready for an optic, soon.

https://www.lipseys.com/itemdetail?itemno=HKLTTUSP45FTJRM

It’s a LTT conversion- I would certainly be interested in a factory offering if it matched the optics system from the VP series. Probably never going to happen.

[CCT125US]

Had a massive wall of text that didn't actually apply to your specific question. More of my musings on dots in general and not applicable to most here.

I did the WA iDot, took a bit longer than promised, return packaging left a bit to be desired. As in very fortunate it was not damaged.

The backup irons were nicely done. However, the rear sight took up most of the tiny window of the RMR and printed about 8 inches high. Fortunately they use a Glock dovetail, so easy enough fix. I promptly ordered a 10-8 Performance rear. Upon drifting out the existing sight, the ultra thin aluminum dovetail became deformed slightly into the RMR pocket. No worries again, some light polishing and all was well. Replacement plates are around $150, by the way. They are very proud of their work. Installed the 10-8, confirmed irons at 25yds with GDHP 124+p.

Completely changed the usability of the pistol in a negative way. Made it too large, and presented height over bore issues (both near and far) I've not experienced with a pistol.
I would not do it again on this particular gun intended for concealed carry. Had to replace it with another P2000SK.

[Sig_Fiend]

Completely changed the usability of the pistol in a negative way. Made it too large, and presented height over bore issues (both near and far) I've not experienced with a pistol.
I would not do it again on this particular gun intended for concealed carry. Had to replace it with another P2000SK.


This has been my concern. Worked with Scott at Impact Machine (https://impactcncmachine.com/) last year on a direct milled ACRO setup for a USP9C. I wanted to get something lower than a milled adapter plate setup. That appears to be a no-go unfortunately. I mention this in case anyone thinks that route might be a solution to the clunky height over bore feeling of the milled adapter plate setups.

One of the issues for attempts to direct mill with at least the USP and USPC lines are the weight relief cuts on the underside of the slide, particularly for the 9mm variants since there is such a substantial cut. The .40sw variants have a bit less of a relief cut, and the .45's even less of one as well, so those are more flexible to work with.

Best I can tell, with the height of the USP slide as well as the way it tapers at the top, it seems to me like a lot of the adapter plate setups lead to a pretty clunky feeling appearance to actually use. Clunky is the only way I can think to describe it. I feel the same about the LTT Beretta 92 RDO. Ernie does great work but, I mean at the end of the day it's putting a big rectangular chunk of stuff on top of what amounts to a triangular profile slide. That just doesn't feel smooth to use, to me, but then I am weird. ;)

I feel like a much more usable setup for the USP's would be if it was possible to mill and direct mount something like one of the Holosun SCS variants. Something slim and low profile.

[KevH]

CCT125US

Thanks for the feedback. I think I'm going to stick with irons on this gun. I found a couple negative Wright Armory posts last night. I really don't care for aluminum optic plates. I've had negative experience with CHWPS (who I think makes Langdon's plates) and drifting a steel sight into aluminum just seems like a bad idea.


I just don't think the juice of an optic on this gun is worth squeeze and as I said before, after shooting with irons for 30 years and 8 years with optics (yes, with professional instruction) I'm still not sure they're worth it for me.

Thanks for helping me think out loud!

[GJM]

I would love to see a USP FS 45 with a hybrid match LEM trigger and either a direct milled Acro or 509T with low BUIS.

[GJM]

Had a massive wall of text that didn't actually apply to your specific question. More of my musings on dots in general and not applicable to most here.

I did the WA iDot, took a bit longer than promised, return packaging left a bit to be desired. As in very fortunate it was not damaged.

The backup irons were nicely done. However, the rear sight took up most of the tiny window of the RMR and printed about 8 inches high. Fortunately they use a Glock dovetail, so easy enough fix. I promptly ordered a 10-8 Performance rear. Upon drifting out the existing sight, the ultra thin aluminum dovetail became deformed slightly into the RMR pocket. No worries again, some light polishing and all was well. Replacement plates are around $150, by the way. They are very proud of their work. Installed the 10-8, confirmed irons at 25yds with GDHP 124+p.

Completely changed the usability of the pistol in a negative way. Made it too large, and presented height over bore issues (both near and far) I've not experienced with a pistol.
I would not do it again on this particular gun intended for concealed carry. Had to replace it with another P2000SK.

Considering the height over bore issue, is the VP9 similar or does the required plate on the hammer models cause problems?

[CCT125US]

Considering the height over bore issue, is the VP9 similar or does the required plate on the hammer models cause problems?

It appears the plate / hammer combo is the issue.

[Bergeron]

That link to the USP45 LTT optics-cut looks great. The issue I see repeated over and again is the slide lightening between the different calibers.

I really do like the idea of an enclosed optic on a USP, in all calibers, and including the Expert long-slide.

[fatdog]

I'm thinking the Wright Armory I-Dot. Does anyone have experience with it?

Are there other options?

I did the Wright I dot for a USP Compact 9 for an Acro, pretty happy with it but pricey and took 12+ weeks.

I had my P30 done by these guys (https://impactcncmachine.com/) but they don't do Acro at present. They will do USP or USP compact for rmr footprint.

[TC215]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW6PKi9hVLw&t=1s

[GJM]

Hope to be shooting one next week!

[1slow]

Very interested.

Would really like to see this on a Tactical as well !

[1slow]

Saw a couple on GunBroker.

Any Idea of the retail and or street price.

What optic is best for hard all weather use / CCW ?

Any chance of mounting a closed emmitter optic ?

Thanks.

[DamonL]

It looks like LTT will cut a customers slide for $325.

https://langdontactical.com/ltts-custom-gun-work-hk-usp-9-and-45/

https://langdontacticaldealers.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/HK-USP-CGW-Order-Form-April-2023.pdf

They don’t list plates for the USP yet, but it might be similar to the other HK’s.

https://langdontactical.com/ltt-p30-red-dot-optic-plates/

[SwampDweller]

I am interested in this, although the previously mentioned height over bore issues and resulting size of the pistol have concerned me. The USP 45 with iron sights is one of the best shooting pistols for me, near or far. Wouldn't want to mess that up, but I have always been interested in a red dot USP.

[1slow]

Got is Lipseys/ Langdon USP 46, 509T, Plates from Langdon for 509T ( same plate as for P30 according to Langdon).

Need to change plates, mount 509T and get to the range.

I will need to find torque specs, procedure and what threadlocker.

[1slow]

RED DOT DRY DRILL
I am new to the dot so this may not be new to you.
I had not heard of doing this before.
I thought it up and tried it.

Pick a spot on a wall that is a safe back stop, make sure visually and digitally that the pistol is empty. No ammo in dry fire area.

Draw to spot on wall, observe when you first see dot, drive dot to target, break shot without disturbing pistol, repeat.

Cut all lights for full dark, repeat drill. You do not have visual cues to find dot. It has to be done kinesthetically. This grooves in correct stroke.

See how early you can find dot.
In the beginning go slow, as you improve speed up until you are finding dot quickly and early.

Do this a bunch, 50 - 100 times maybe.

Turn lights on and do drill again. Dot will appear in the correct spot like magic.
HK USP 45 LTT/ Lipseys, Holosun 509T

YMMV

[entropy]

Hope to be shooting one next week!

Did you get the opportunity to shoot it? What were your opinions? I’m particularly interested in your opinions on height over bore and overall handling. My experience with an aftermarket plate and optic a few years back were somewhat less than extraordinary.

Thanks!

[GJM]

Did you get the opportunity to shoot it? What were your opinions? I’m particularly interested in your opinions on height over bore and overall handling. My experience with an aftermarket plate and optic a few years back were somewhat less than extraordinary.

Thanks!

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?56848-Lipsey-s-LTT-USP-FS

[entropy]

Reading is fundamental.

🤷*♂️

Thanks

[Elwin]

For anyone still looking into putting a dot on a USP, it also seems Impact Machine mills at least some models. I ran into some examples while researching milling options for my oddball 1911s.

They also just generally put themselves out there as an option for milling of weird guns. Some other examples I saw were a SW 5906, a Ruger P85, and a damn Automag of all things. Seems their approach is send it, have them measure it, and if it works they’ll do it.

[1slow]

5/16/23
HK USP 45 LTT / LIPSEYS / HOLOSUN 509T

Following in DB’s and GJM’s footsteps I have been shooting a HK USP 45 LEM the past 2 years or so.

I was very happy to learn of:
HK USP 45 LTT / LIPSEYS with optics plate.
I bought 2, got the HOLOSUN 509T plates from LTT mounted plates, Holosun 509Ts and went to range.

Rough 0 at 10 yard then 0 at 25 yards. Shot at 25, 50, 75 , and 100 yards.

I am not as skillful as many on this forum.
I my day is OK with iron sights I can usually, from 2 hand standing, do 25 yd head shots on a 6’’ x 6’’ box, 50 yd hits on a MGM BCC plate, I can usually hit a full size IPSC steel at 100 yd about 85 % of the time. 100 yd requires a 6:00 hold o the 6’’ x 6’’ head for me to make body hits.

I shot at 25, 50, 75 , and 100 yards.
All were done standing 2 hands single action.
Excepting 5 shots at 25 yards DA that worked almost as well as SA.
Not as tight a group but all on 6'' x 6'' head plate.

Federal 230 gr FMJ.


25 yd - center head in circle.

50 yd - center BCC in circle.

75 yd - center BCC in circle

100 yd - put dot at 6:00 on 6’’ x 6’’ head. I did not measure but the 100 yd group looks smaller than the 75 yd group ?


All off these are better than my iron sight groups.

Needs work. I need to trust my wobble zone more. I am walking the occasional shot.

I am happy with my first day shooting this package and it has been years since I shot red dot on a pistol.



Targets attached.



50 yd all SA
104777

75 yd all SA
104778

100yd all SA
104779

25 yd all DA

104780

25 yd all SA
I labeled this one 4 shots but it looks like 5, I am not sure.

[entropy]

I recently took a low light class (my first dedicated pistol class in quite a while) and was “reintroduced” to the entire “red dot on a pistol genre”.

I walked away impressed.

Dumb question:

Is there a way to have a plate machined to cover the optic cut out? I’m sure anything is possible given enough cash flow, but curious if this is something that is normally available and done. I’d be much more comfortable putting my pistol under the knife if I knew there was a method of facial reconstruction. Lol

[GJM]

I recently took a low light class (my first dedicated pistol class in quite a while) and was “reintroduced” to the entire “red dot on a pistol genre”.

I walked away impressed.

Dumb question:

Is there a way to have a plate machined to cover the optic cut out? I’m sure anything is possible given enough cash flow, but curious if this is something that is normally available and done. I’d be much more comfortable putting my pistol under the knife if I knew there was a method of facial reconstruction. Lol

I wouldn't say it is normally done but it is not uncommonly done, especially with an RMR cut.

[entropy]

I guess I would just want a way to bring it back to a semblance of “stock configuration”.

Now all we need is Safariland to make an ALS for it.....

[GJM]

I guess I would just want a way to bring it back to a semblance of “stock configuration”.

Now all we need is Safariland to make an ALS for it.....

I think the cut on a USP is intrusive enough, you should consider it a dedicated optics slide even if you could get a plate. I doubt we ever see an ALS that works with a USP with an optic.

[entropy]

I guess it “go big or go home”...

[1slow]

I have 2 of the LTT/Lipsey’s HK USP 45 with Holosun 509Ts. Overall I like the package.

Today both of them are giving me LIGHT STRIKES , one gave me 3 out of 24 light strikes, one gave me 1 out of 24 light strikes. I am not impressed.

These light strikes were all DA after using the hammer drop, the second DA trigger pull would fire it.

This was with the Federal 230 gr FMJ that has been great in multiple HK USP 45s.


I put the 3/24 light strike upper on a LEM lower and had no light strikes in 48:rounds.
.
My guess is the hammer spring is too light. Not a good thing but fixable.

My intent is to set them up as LEM / MATCH HYBRIDS. I thought I might like the action work but I much prefer LEM / MATCH HYBRIDS.

I wanted the LTT package , otherwise I would set up a LEM / MATCH HYBRID and send it in to LTT.

Test your gear !

[GJM]

I have 2 of the LTT/Lipsey’s HK USP 45 with Holosun 509Ts. Overall I like the package.

Today both of them are giving me LIGHT STRIKES , one gave me 3 out of 24 light strikes, one gave me 1 out of 24 light strikes. I am not impressed.

These light strikes were all DA after using the hammer drop, the second DA trigger pull would fire it.

This was with the Federal 230 gr FMJ that has been great in multiple HK USP 45s.


I put the 3/24 light strike upper on a LEM lower and had no light strikes in 48:rounds.
.
My guess is the hammer spring is too light. Not a good thing but fixable.

My intent is to set them up as LEM / MATCH HYBRIDS. I thought I might like the action work but I much prefer LEM / MATCH HYBRIDS.

I wanted the LTT package , otherwise I would set up a LEM / MATCH HYBRID and send it in to LTT.

Test your gear !

I did not experience light strikes with mine. Is hot Winchester white box 230, Critical Duty and Underwood Lehigh Super loads. Did you learn anything from LTT?

[1slow]

Email sent to LTT.

[J0hnny]

I have a spare USP 9mm slide and an RMR looking for a host...

Langdon or Wright Armory?

[Bergeron]

I saw an Instagram pic (I think?) of an Acro on a USP9. The post mentioned how the lightening cuts of the USP9 slide are problematic for RDS mounting, but this was apparently overcome. I don't have the pic, but the optic was very low-slung over the slide.

[J0hnny]

I saw an Instagram pic (I think?) of an Acro on a USP9. The post mentioned how the lightening cuts of the USP9 slide are problematic for RDS mounting, but this was apparently overcome. I don't have the pic, but the optic was very low-slung over the slide.

A direct mount ACRO would be rad

[Bergeron]

I think it was these guys with the Acro:

http://https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=io03MJ9Izq0