Double action / single action trigger manipulation

[Cowtown44]

My wife is new in the last year to shooting. The gun that feels the best in her hand is the 9mm Sig P226. She shoots MUCH better with DA vs SA with this gun. She also has a 686P revolver that she shoots only in DA and is acceptably accurate (all rounds on a 8" plate at 25 yds). Does anyone have a diagnosis for the significant accuracy differences between DA and SA? Where should her finger be on the Sig trigger for DA and SA pulls? Any other tips to improve SA accuracy? Thanks for the input.

[Pistol Shooter]

It sounds like your wife is on the right track -- most folks struggle more with the DA trigger than the SA.

I know I did and still do with some pistols. :eek:

It's my understanding that her fingerprint should be on the trigger when she shoots.

Maybe if she slows down a bit on the SA shots and practices more it will help her.

Just my two cents, I look forward to reading the responses of the experts here.

[SLG]

I put my finger pretty much where it naturally falls, and then don't worry about it. If your wife's fingers are very long or very short, that may not work. I definitely do not put it in one place for the DA and another place for the SA.

Where are her SA shots going? Mostly low left, or somewhere else?

Again, depending on her finger length and finger strength (that doesn't sound like a problem), she may be hitting the frame in SA, or she may be jerking and anticipating the short trigger movement. The long DA pull is very hard to anticipate, and I often find that my best shots are fired that way. I vastly prefer it to a 1911 trigger. Having said that, though I think it's worth learning to shoot anything and everything, she may want to consider a 226 with a DAK trigger, or even a DAO version.

[Cowtown44]

Thanks for the responses, the errant shots are going low and left. If DA is bullseye, SA is about 4" low and left. Here first SA shot is acceptable but continued shooting yields more and more low left drift.

She is not changing her finger position between DA and SA. The trigger imprint is just distal (toward the tip) to first interphalangeal joint.

[SLG]

Cowtown44,

Sounds like anticipation, with maybe a bit of trigger jerk, but trying to diagnose shooting errors over the errornet is difficult. There's lots of info on this site (I think) and on pistol-training.com about overcoming anticipation and jerk.

[JV_]

There's lots of info on this site (I think)
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?356-The-Dreaded-Flinch

[Cowtown44]

Got some more information for the diagnostics. She has a 22 conversion kit for the Sig and shoots tight groups in both DA/SA.

[ford.304]

I'm not an expect, but it sounds as though she is reacting to the first shot. I used to see it when I was shooting .357 magnums - my first shot would be on, and then I would flinch the rest of the cylinder after being reminded of the muzzle blast and recoil. It's not the DA versus the SA, it's the fact that the DA is her first shot. The fact that she doesn't flinch when shooting the .22 would seem to confirm this.

[41magfan]

Your wife could just be an anomoly. Some folks can actually counter the tendency to flinch much better with the deliberate manipulation required with a DA trigger pull. All that free play/movement of the SA trigger before engagement may be messing with her mind - something usually overcome with proper practice.

But, if she's shooting well and feels comfortable with the DA trigger design - you might consider what's already been suggested and embrace the reality by using a DAO platform.

You mentioned that she could stay within 8" @ 25 yards. That accuracy standard may not win much in a particular shooting discipline, but it'll work just fine in the real world of self-defense, if that's the intended application of her skill.

[SLG]

This is certainly strange, and not seeing what she's doing is tough.

I would have her shoot groups DA/SA, DA/SA, DA/SA, so that she ends up with 6 shot groups, half shot DA, and half shot SA. De-cock after each SA shot and start over DA. This may or may not help her particular issue, but it is the best way to shoot a traditional DA gun that I know. Todd showed this to me years ago, and without it, I'm sure I would never have learned to shoot a DA gun properly.

If she has no problem shooting a .22 SA, then the blast/recoil of the 9 might be an issue, but I wouldn't think that she would be able to keep shooting DA well either.

Have her shoot a 5 shot group DA only, and see what happens. If all is good, then go to the DA/SA group shooting above. If the first DAO group is not good, then report the results of that, and try DAO with the .22.


41magfan, welcome! Glad to see you made it over here.

[41magfan]

Thanks, SLG - hope I can add something useful to the Forum.

[ToddG]

The first step I take with a shooter struggling to get DA/SA shooting under control is to shoot DA/SA two-shot strings as SLG pointed out, but on two different targets. For example, put up two 3x5 cards at 3yd. Have her point the gun at the left target, press through a good DA shot, then keeping the trigger pulled all the way to the rear move the gun over to the right target, reset the trigger, and break the SA shot. Repeat this five times.

Compare the groups for size, POI, etc.

From there, without actually seeing her shoot and manipulate the trigger, it's impossible to diagnose what actual problem(s) may be at work. But firing slow deliberate DA and SA shots in sequence usually helps most folks get accustomed to the mechanism. While it may take a bit more time and effort, being a truly good DA/SA shooter isn't nearly as difficult as many people make it out to be.

[Cowtown44]

Thanks for all the responses guys. We will initiate the drills and I'll report back.