IDPA concealment… belt clips showing?

[JCN]

102880

They say “all” gear to be hidden… but does that include belt clips as part of the “all?”

I would assume yes, but I don’t know if this is one of those things that is an accepted grey area.

Like the “trigger shoe” thing that apparently only applies to add on trigger covers and not to Glock shoes or replacement trigger levers.

So for those in IDPA, would this be allowed at a sanctioned match?

102881

(Basically can I show belt clips if I tuck?)

Les Pepperoni

[1911Nut]

I've been shooting IDPA for 10 years, and wish I could help you, but I don't know the answer to your question.

You might call your IDPA Area Coordinator, but chances are at least 50% he won't know the answer, either.

Perhaps check with IDPA headquarters. But then you rick the chance of getting one opinion from your Area Coordinator and a different opinion from IDPA Headquarters.

And even if you do get a definitive answer, the rules (or the interpretation of them) will most likely change before the next sanctioned match in your area is held.

But I could be wrong . . . . . anyone have Joyce Wilson's phone number?

[JCN]

I've been shooting IDPA for 10 years, and wish I could help you, but I don't know the answer to your question.

You might call your IDPA Area Coordinator, but chances are at least 50% he won't know the answer, either.

Perhaps check with IDPA headquarters. But then you rick the chance of getting one opinion from your Area Coordinator and a different opinion from IDPA Headquarters.

And even if you do get a definitive answer, the rules (or the interpretation of them) will most likely change before the next sanctioned match in your area is held.

But I could be wrong . . . . . anyone have Joyce Wilson's phone number?

I like that the IDPA website basically says: Don't bother us with rules questions, ask someone else. We don't care whom and we don't care if it's consistent. Did I mention, don't bother us?

[Jim Watson]

HQ will most likely refer you to the AC. If your AC does not agree with my AC, too bad.

I suggest an empirical approach. Show up with your clips bared and if the MD says anything, cover them up.

I know the imprecision of IDPA is an annoyance, but it is a lot less obvious on the range than it is on the Internet, where you can find many USPSA jocks and True Tacticians ready to tell you what you are doing wrong.

[RJ]

102880
They say “all” gear to be hidden… but does that include belt clips as part of the “all?”


I spent a good part of my professional career carefully parsing the language in "Requirements" and based on what you've posted, I'd interpret "all of the holster" to include the clips that holds the holster on the belt. So, in your case, I would expect you'd need to hide the clips somehow.

I've never shot an IDPA match but there is a large gun club near me which hosts regular IDPA matches; the nearest USPSA option for me is over an hour away. It's been on my mind to go check out an IDPA match sometime, so I'm curious what Les's answer is, as I have a similar setup (AIWB).

[JCN]

I spent a good part of my professional career carefully parsing the language in "Requirements" and based on what you've posted, I'd interpret "all of the holster" to include the clips that holds the holster on the belt. So, in your case, I would expect you'd need to hide the clips somehow.

I've never shot an IDPA match but there is a large gun club near me which hosts regular IDPA matches; the nearest USPSA option for me is over an hour away. It's been on my mind to go check out an IDPA match sometime, so I'm curious what Les's answer is, as I have a similar setup (AIWB).

I would interpret it the same way as you! But belt clips exposed and shirt tucked in is my usual actual EDC carry method (and I'm not alone in this), so I wonder if they have a provision with a narrower definition of the holster and pouch being the non-clip part. I sent a message to the AC and will see what he says.

There are behind the belt clip options that I can employ (Ulti-clips) and underhooks as well as the velcro backed ones, but they're a little more of a PITA to get holster on and off... if I don't have to do so, then I'd prefer not to for ease of use.

Actually, now that I'm thinking of it...

Concealment pants!

One of my favorite belts is the Mastermind Covert and I've been carrying a clinch pick on that.

It hides INSIDE the whole pants....

Something like an elastic pant cover for the belt pants...

Think running shorts over cargo shorts...

[Mirolynmonbro]

.

So for those in IDPA, would this be allowed at a sanctioned match?



I'm going with no

[dontshakepandas]

I would interpret it the same way as you! But belt clips exposed and shirt tucked in is my usual actual EDC carry method (and I'm not alone in this), so I wonder if they have a provision with a narrower definition of the holster and pouch being the non-clip part. I sent a message to the AC and will see what he says.

There are behind the belt clip options that I can employ (Ulti-clips) and underhooks as well as the velcro backed ones, but they're a little more of a PITA to get holster on and off... if I don't have to do so, then I'd prefer not to for ease of use.

Actually, now that I'm thinking of it...

Concealment pants!

One of my favorite belts is the Mastermind Covert and I've been carrying a clinch pick on that.

It hides INSIDE the whole pants....

Something like an elastic pant cover for the belt pants...

Think running shorts over cargo shorts...

Have you considered trying the Phlster Enigma? Not necessarily just for IDPA, but for EDC those clips are a huge give away and look like they protrude enough to cause some printing even if you were using the Mastermind Covert. The Enigma would give you the same advantage, but it also completely removes the necessity for clips which really slims down the whole package.

If you do decide to try it, order the sport belt with it. It is "optional" but I think it really helps with comfort and concealment.

[RJ]

Given how unexcited the IDPA leadership was about AIWB, if I showed up with an Enigma they’d probably have a stroke. :cool:





(Just kiddin’ fellers :) )

[JCN]

As long as you pistol, holster and magazine are fully concealed the clips don’t matter. Don’t hesitate to contact if you have further questions. Thanks

[rob_s]

If it turned out that they DID need to conceal the clips, what’s the worst case scenario? Untuck the short to cover them? And what’s the negative outcome from doing do?

[CraigS]

If you wear a vest or jacket they would be covered. Where I shoot we have a few people doing IWB but only one of the two clubs allow AIWB. I haven't paid close attention but those couple of guys when not required to have a vest still have their shirt untucked which would definitely cover your clips. Each stage has it specified whether cover is required or not. Say Oct to Mar cover is usually required. But the March matches I remember at least a couple of stages said no cover. Especially if we start seated and have to draw while seated, they usually think of cover creating a safety hazard, so none required. As soon as it gets a little warm often the entire match is cover NOT required. These are local level matches so as we know upper level matches could be different. You could paint them to match your belt so they'd be less obvious.

[JCN]

If it turned out that they DID need to conceal the clips, what’s the worst case scenario? Untuck the short to cover them? And what’s the negative outcome from doing do?

It would depend on what shirt I was wearing.

Some shirts may stretch and tuck but might not pass the dangle with arms out test.

It’s really not a big deal but I generally like to compete like I practice.

And I don’t like to give away free time when I’m competing so…

[Jim Watson]

There is a shooter at the Wednesday night USPSA who is what I call "relentlessly tactical."
Sometimes he is carrying AIWB, sometimes hip with concealment. He would fit right in at IDPA.
He isn't winning USPSA but he is exercising his carry gear.

[1911Nut]

I see that over on another forum our own JCN was part of a conversation about the subject of clips (same as this thread) and mentioned that he was told by his IDPA Area Coordinator that the clips being visible was okay.

Imagine my surprise when a participant in that conversation on that forum advised that HE had been told by HIS IDPA Area Coordinator that the clips being visible was NOT allowable.

Those guys have teamed up to make me pretty proud of my prognostication skills! (See Post #2 in this thread).

[Jim Watson]

Same thing on ports and comps, there is at least one AC still clinging to the factory installed restriction, even though that is gone from the .2 rules. But then "incorporated" can mean a lot of different things.
A.2.3.2 Compensated and ported barrels that are incorporated into the firearm.

I was contemplating having my No 2 ESP ported just for the fun of it, but not now, not soon.

[Mirolynmonbro]

I see that over on another forum our own JCN was part of a conversation about the subject of clips (same as this thread) and mentioned that he was told by his IDPA Area Coordinator that the clips being visible was okay.

Imagine my surprise when a participant in that conversation on that forum advised that HE had been told by HIS IDPA Area Coordinator that the clips being visible was NOT allowable.

Those guys have teamed up to make me pretty proud of my prognostication skills! (See Post #2 in this thread).

It was my state coordinator, not area coordinator

[1911Nut]

It was my state coordinator, not area coordinator

Thanks for the correction.

[G19Fan]

Have you considered trying the Phlster Enigma? Not necessarily just for IDPA, but for EDC those clips are a huge give away and look like they protrude enough to cause some printing even if you were using the Mastermind Covert. The Enigma would give you the same advantage, but it also completely removes the necessity for clips which really slims down the whole package.

If you do decide to try it, order the sport belt with it. It is "optional" but I think it really helps with comfort and concealment.

Enigma is amazing. Was a super early adopter and push it on others that aiwb as it is amazing. Also how my wife carries in yoga pants and dresses.

Personally hated the sports belt. Insanely uncomfortable for me vs standard

[TGS]

Enigma is amazing. Was a super early adopter and push it on others that aiwb as it is amazing. Also how my wife carries in yoga pants and dresses.

Personally hated the sports belt. Insanely uncomfortable for me vs standard

What did you find uncomfortable about it? I'm most often wearing the Enigma when wearing garments with no pockets, so I wanted space for my credentials and cell phone. Just added the sports belt, but I don't have any time on it yet...all my time thus far has been with the regular belt.

[G19Fan]

What did you find uncomfortable about it? I'm most often wearing the Enigma when wearing garments with no pockets, so I wanted space for my credentials and cell phone. Just added the sports belt, but I don't have any time on it yet...all my time this far has been with the regular belt.

It didn't give me enough movement. Made me super unfomfortable and gassy (not normally a gassy person)