9mm reloading economics in 2023.

[David S.]

Now that components are starting to come back, I'm looking to potentially reload something like 10k+ rounds of 9mm this year for training and USPSA competition. I'm not concerned with any other caliber at the moment.

I have a Dillon 650 setup.
I have basically unlimited range pick up brass.
I have a mentor with Dillon experience.

Not searching for cheapest product or deals:

Powder Valley pricing:
4lb jug of N320: $150. (At 2k rds/lb, should yield 8k total)
8k projectiles: $700 (147g Blue Bullets.)
8k primers: $760

It looks like 8k rounds will cost 24 cpr, or $1871 shipped.

Bulk 115g 9mm is currently about 27 cpr. 8k rounds of MagTech 115g is $2270 shipped.

Do my numbers seem reasonable?

[jeep45238]

That sounds correct. The only thing I've found myself looking at recently is what is my time worth (life got busy quick).

If you would be watching TV otherwise and literally wouldn't be doing anything else during the creation/QC process, then I would still forecast out what my time expenditure would be for all of reloading process, and ask if I would still do it for XYZ dollars if it's from an economy perspective.

I'll continue to reload, even at a bit of a cost, as it offers diversification of where the ammo comes from, and smooths out the bumps in the road during dry spells.

[bofe954]

I think your numbers look about right.

I will say shooting USPSA with 130pf 147gr 9mm vs factory 115gr is not quite the same experience. A more fair comparison might be the 150gr fed syntech or Atlanta arms 147gr or something.

I am still using primers hoarded from a long time ago. I doubt primers will ever be $35-$40/k again, but I am hoping they get a little more reasonable. It seems like they are at least readily available now at $100/k.

Reloading 9mm when primers are $100/k isn't a big money saver.

If primer prices do not drop, at some point I will start saving my stash for 40 cal and more expensive rounds and probably put effort into finding a bulk deal on syntech, instead of putting effort into pulling the handle on my press.

[JCS]

There’s also the time aspect. Not just time of reloading but time testing loads, range time spent, travel to and from range. Setting up press, fiddling with press, fixing press when press breaks. There’s time spent picking up brass, cleaning brass, sorting and qcing brass. The list goes on. The time isn’t as simple as I can reload 1,000 rounds an hr on my press so it’ll take me 8 hrs to reload 8k rounds. IMO I spend more time doing the other parts of reloading than on the press. The brass processing is time consuming and I didn’t used to do it but crimped primers are super annoying and increase the chances of something going wrong during the process. Additionally I had a case blow out once from range pickup brass. On more than one occasion I have found cracked brass at the range.

Due to a move I no longer have my press set up so I’m buying factory. At current prices of $.24 per round I don’t see it worth it to reload. Back when I could reload at half the cost it was. But like someone else mentioned, with primers at $100/1000 I personally don’t see it as worth it. To really make it worth I would need to be buying in huge quantities.

[mmc45414]

I circle this drain myself all of the time.
One tricky thing is how costs fluctuate, seems like the cost of ammo drops faster than the price of primers.
So right now I am using primers I bought for $90-$100 back when you couldn't hardly get ammo or primers. But I was in a position to load almost 10k if things got more scarce. Fortunately they became more available, but that leaves me loading at less of a cost savings, until I "get" to buy primers again.

Looks like maybe you could do better on primers, Ammoseek is your friend (https://ammoseek.com/reloading/primers?ikw=small).

There can also be a cost per round disadvantage that enables a cash flow advantage.
I suggest buying as many primers as you can (probably 5k-10k), on one HazMat.
Then buy 8 pounds of powder, maybe even on the same HazMat if you get lucky.
Pay for this by not buying all of the bullets. Get them 3k at a time on their free freight bundle (147gn BB is also what I load), the savings to bump up to their higher quantities is very slight.
By buying more powder you throw things off sync, and that is good news because you will not need everything at the same time ever again. Right now I need powder (~$280), a few months from now I will need bullets again ($270), sometime next year I will need primers again (~$450). This has me perpetually loading at about $0.20.

And as mentioned, this also upgrades you to a 147gn bullet. So a true cost comparison would be to buy 8 cases of 147gn loaded ammo RIGHT NOW. Costs will probably come down, but could go up again. IMO as long as you have primers your butt is pretty well covered.

And as also mentioned, the time factor depends on what else you would be doing. Personally, my wife likes to watch American Idol, so I have time available to reload while that is going on... :cool:

[David S.]

Roger that on the time consideration.

If it's a $50/k cost difference between factory and reloads, I'm working for $20/hr if it takes me 20 hrs all-in to load that 8k.

Is my gun time better spent dry firing? hmmmm.

[CCT125US]

I also look at the cost, replacement cost, and average cost.

For instance, my current cost / stock is valued at:
$25 / k primers
$110 / 8lb / 4.7gr per case
$80 / k bullets
Free brass

Replacement cost:
$75/k primers
$230 / 8lb
$90 / k bullets
Free brass

Average cost:
Unknown

Current factory 9mm cost at local shop $14.99/50


Also, if prices spike on primers and powder, I have the knowledge and ability to cast bullets. I can redirect what I was spending on bullets. With a 4 cavity mold and a couple afternoons, you can drop alot of projectiles. However, one must have primer and powder, so at this point I'm less likely to use existing stock.

My centerfire pistol usage has fallen off a cliff. I barely shoot 50 rounds a week currently. I reviewed my round counts and made some adjustments. Much more focused drills and dryfire.

However, when you use this to tumble your brass, what's a few dollars either way.

102701

[bofe954]

I debate picking up X amount of brass at the range when I shoot, not sorting it at all and just recycling it and then using the money to buy once fired, cleaned brass.

[JCN]

Is my gun time better spent dry firing? hmmmm.

Yes, unless you really enjoy the meditation of reloading.

If you spend the time dry firing it’ll take less ammo to get to the same proficiency so the cost will wash that way too…

IMO.

[Clusterfrack]

Bullets: $0.07
Primers: $0.085
Powder: $0.015
Range brass: $0.00
$0.017 / round

[JAD]

For those of us who dig .45, the calculus is a little better.

[45dotACP]

For those of us who dig .45, the calculus is a little better.I like reloading .38 special quite a bit. Especially wadcutters or SWCs. .45 ACP is pretty great savings wise as well. Even more so when I load .357 mag or .41 magnum.

Also I feel like the people talking about "what's the value of your time compared to just buying cases of 115gr steel cased crap?" often miss the point that I'm not comparing my handloads to a bunch of Tula.

Compare your handloads cost wise to a 147 grain factory ammo instead.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[Borderland]

Bullets: $0.07
Primers: $0.085
Powder: $0.015
Range brass: $0.00
$0.017 / round

That's very close to the number I came up with.

I reload 9mm but then I have more time than money.

How's that old Lefty Frizzell song go?
If you've got the money honey I've got the time

[mmc45414]

Is my gun time better spent dry firing? hmmmm.
Or do you get better by doing 35% more live fire for the same money?
Pretty sure in the history of reloading, money was actually saved by nobody, ever... :cool:
In my case my equipment investment might be difficult to cost justify, but I have it, and I always aspire to doing more volume.

Seriously, if you think you will dislike the task, and would do it only to keep $50 a month or so in your pocket, that is like the cost of a case of craft beer. OTOH if you like working with cool tools and get an appreciation for a shiny pile of ammo you had a hand in, and it cost $50 less, you already have the equipment sitting there then why not give it a try and decide for yourself. You might end up liking it and gaining a feeling of satisfaction.


crimped primers are super annoying
That right there is how I ended up with that dang ol RL1100...

ETA:

For those of us who dig .45, the calculus is a little better.

I like reloading .38 special quite a bit. Especially wadcutters or SWCs. .45 ACP is pretty great savings wise as well. Even more so when I load .357 mag or .41 magnum.
Loading anything other than 9mm is pretty much like printing money The cost of the bullet changes a few pennies, and other than that...

[Jim Watson]

My 9mm load today, 147 gr Gallant coated, is $204 a thousand at current prices.
Dare I compare that to 147 Syntech at $450 a thou or must I treat it as no better than $259 Blazer Brass?
It is a darn sight more pleasant to shoot than econoball.

P.S. I am retired with time to reload, dry fire, live fire, and watch Braves baseball.

[WDR]

I usually shoot my own 147gr 9mm reloads. I have tons of brass and powder on hand, pre-covid sunk cost. I have ~4-5k 147gr bullets on hand. I have not bought primers since pre-covid. The last 5k primers I bought was CCI small pistol, for about $25/k. I've been using my old stock of WSP (some as low as $10/k) up, and I'm about to break into that 5k CCI SP, but I'm having the same quandary. Primers are still often 8-10 cents each, delivered, which is ~30% of the cost of some new factory 9mm ball.

The curve ball for me is .38 and .357... I can save myself a LOT of money reloading those rounds. I have plenty of powders, brass and bullets on hand, for the volumes of each of those that I shoot. If I use up all my primers loading 9mm, I'd have to buy primers again at what I consider inflated prices to load .38/.357, or I'd have to buy factory revolver ammo. My current thinking is to load 1-2k 9mm, and maybe 1k .38, while waiting to see if primer prices drop more in the next 6-12 months, keeping ~3k reserve for future 9/38/357 loads.

CCI Blazer Brass 147gr can be had for about $270/k. AE9FP can be had around $300/k. Tax adds a bit to those prices. I'd likely be buying ammo now, if I could get either of those for closer to $200-$225/k. If I was willing to use 115gr or 124gr factory ball, I could maybe come close to my "buy it now" 9mm pricing. Buying ammo saves a lot of labor/time, but, I enjoy reloading.

Ammo prices seem to have somewhat stabilized at a "new normal", but you are also seeing Winchester offer some fairly significant rebates on multiple rifle calibers right now, so maybe there is some room for more downward pressure in the market. If you start seeing Federal/CCI/Speer offering rebates, I'd suspect lower primer prices would follow soon.

[dogcaller]

What am I missing? I have recently purchased a few thousand 124s, and I also have a couple thousand 115s. What’s the deal with 147s and USPSA?

[JCS]

What am I missing? I have recently purchased a few thousand 124s, and I also have a couple thousand 115s. What’s the deal with 147s and USPSA?

Bigger bullets= less powder and are “softer” shooting. If you look at the uspsa survey 124s are still very popular.

I settled on 124ish because sigs didn’t like 147s accuracy wise. If it shoots accurate in the gun, I’ve settled on, it probably doesn’t matter that much in terms of my placement in matches.

[okie john]

IMO I spend more time doing the other parts of reloading than on the press.

Agreed. This is where the equation breaks down for me.

I’m happy to load 44 Magnum and 45 Colt but not 9mm or 308. I like that factory ammo leaves you with once-fired brass. I’m not a fan of range brass as a rule. Too many people do all the wrong things on the loading bench and leave little time bombs in their wake.


Okie John

[Hambo]

When I run out of my pre-CovidRiotDeathPanic supplies, I won't go back to loading 9mm unless primer prices drop :rolleyes:. At current prices, it's even money for reloads of bulk ammo.

On the other hand, .357 and anything that starts with a 4 is still money saved...lots of money.

[Duelist]

I like having the capability of loading 9mm. If availability of loaded ammunition goes down, or cost goes up, I can keep shooting, but I don’t load it regularly when cost/availability of loaded ammunition is such that it trumps the time/cost to load it myself.

Other calibers, I handload almost exclusively: hunting rifle ammunition, .38/.357. Cost savings is almost always significant to stupidly significant. Hunting rifle ammunition is a relatively low volume use, so I don’t have to spend significant time doing it while saving up to a couple of dollars for every round loaded.

[JCN]

What am I missing? I have recently purchased a few thousand 124s, and I also have a couple thousand 115s. What’s the deal with 147s and USPSA?


Bigger bullets= less powder and are “softer” shooting. If you look at the uspsa survey 124s are still very popular.

I settled on 124ish because sigs didn’t like 147s accuracy wise. If it shoots accurate in the gun, I’ve settled on, it probably doesn’t matter that much in terms of my placement in matches.

My opinion is that it’s a function of the way power factor is calculated for games.

Power factor in games = (bullet weight) X (velocity) and has to be over 125,000.

If you take 127,500 power factor as a floor

Syntech 150gr @ 850 fps

Or

Random 115gr @ 1109 fps

The difference in the muzzle energy is actually quite different.

127.5 power factor

Syntech 150gr @ 850 fps = 241 ft*lbs (which is 380ACP level power)

Random 115gr @ 1109 fps = 314 ft*lbs

That’s quite a difference in actual energy transfer, and may explain some of the difference in feel.

[Jamie]

I handload the overwhelming majority of the ammo I shoot.

That's around 5K-6K/year. Roughly 2/3 of that is 147 gr 9mm.(I personally like it's subjective recoil impulse).
The other 1/3 is .38 spl, .32 S&W Long, .32 H&R, and .357 mag.
It's mind-boggling to me how expensive it would be to purchase those revolver rounds. Handloading revolver rounds is where I too really appreciate the savings.

I do shoot a few hundred factory rounds each year, but that's usually just cycling out my carry ammo every 6 months +/-.

I'm fortunate to have been handloading since the late 80's because I've learned to save money buying bulk or even group purchases of components. This is the most protracted period of difficult to find and inflated cost of components I've ever seen.

I'm bumping 70 years old, so I don't shoot high round classes anymore. But the few classes I've taken over the past couple years were focused on particular skill development (like low light) and my weekly to bi-weekly range trips have specific drills or skills in mind.

I am mostly retired so that affords me the time. And I enjoy handloading! It's my "Zen Space" or a time to listen to podcasts.

[B]IF[B]I see decent, not cheap, 9mm 124 or 147 gr dip down to the $.20/round total price point I'll probably start buying some 9mm again.

Just my ever devaluing $.02 worth adjusted for inflation... :rolleyes:


ETA My current handloading per round cost is around $.15/round.

[Jim Watson]

Bigger bullets= less powder and are “softer” shooting. If you look at the uspsa survey 124s are still very popular.

I settled on 124ish because sigs didn’t like 147s accuracy wise. If it shoots accurate in the gun, I’ve settled on, it probably doesn’t matter that much in terms of my placement in matches.

Right, the FELT recoil is less even though the Newtonian recoil figured as a momentum balance (power factor) is the same.

BUT, I am loading these 147s largely as a novelty. The difference between 147 and 124 at the same power factor is noticeable when standing still, shooting carefully. I am not sure it will be apparent at speed for USPSA. I will find out this week or next. I have to keep 124s in production, I am supplying my protege and her G34 does not like low velocity ammo.

[GyroF-16]

I’ll pitch in…

I load 147 gr for practice and IDPA with a recoil impulse that matches Federal Syntech 150 gr. It’s plenty accurate and makes power factor, and is considerably less expensive than Syntech.

X-Treme 147 bullet: .0925
3.5 gr of HP-38: .0246
Primers: .044-.095
Brass (reuse my own): 0

Works out to: $0.16 - 0.212 per round, depending on whether I use primers from pre-COVID purchases, or current prices.
The bullets were ordered in bulk (9,500) during a Memorial Day sale last year. The powder was all purchased pre-COVID. Looks like the powder is going for $10 more a pound now, so that would add about another penny a round.

All in all, I like the soft-shooting ammo for practice and competition, and enjoy being self-sufficient during ammo shortages. To top it off, I rather enjoy the time I spend reloading. The reloaded ammo offers a slight price advantage, but I’d probably reload until it’s LESS expensive to buy equivalent ammo.

Loading 300 BLK is a whole other story- I save 50% when I reload, and get equivalent- to higher-quality ammo for my trouble.

[MickAK]

I like having the capability of loading 9mm. If availability of loaded ammunition goes down, or cost goes up, I can keep shooting, but I don’t load it regularly when cost/availability of loaded ammunition is such that it trumps the time/cost to load it myself.


This is an important factor. In shortages both my cost/rd goes up and my reserve stock goes down.

Another important factor is the amount of time I spend thinking about it during shortages. Most people are familiar with the amount of time you consider whether an app is worth $10 when you'll spend quadruple that on dinner without much of a thought. So it is with ammo.

The increased cost is a fairly small part of my yearly budget but the time spent thinking about it is a factor too. People with 9mm reloading components probably spend less time reloading than I spend thinking 'Damn, ammo is high'.

[revchuck38]

I've got about 3.5k of small pistol primers left from before Covid. I also have about 2k of loaded 9x19 left. My remaining SP primers are going to be used for .38 Special and .357 Magnum ammo. I have almost a full case of LP primers, so when I run out of SP I'll load my big bore stuff. Actually, I'm down to ~100-125 rounds of .44 Mag from when I hunted, once that's gone I'll get some 240-grain LSWCs and load them to ~950 fps from my OMSBH, so that might be the next caliber up. ;)

ETA: Once my 9x19 gets low, I'll probably buy factory ammo unless the primer prices come down appreciably.

[psalms144.1]

I'm also ready to drop loading 9mm on my Dillon, in order to save what primers I have left for .38s. My current stash puts me at about $0.20-.22/round. For ME, saving $.03-.05/round isn't worth the time/hassle, especially since my current RL550C is the least "smooth" operating Dillon I've ever seen, making loading anything a chore. When I figure out the time it takes to load primer tubes, clean/dry brass, fiddle with dies, confirm powder charge, etc, I'm really spending more time fiddling around than actually loading.

I did a conservative estimate, and I can realistically pull off 500 rounds/hour on my machine. If I'm saving 5 CPR, that means I'm paying myself $25 an hour to do the work, which doesn't "wow" me.

[mmc45414]

I did a conservative estimate, and I can realistically pull off 500 rounds/hour on my machine. If I'm saving 5 CPR, that means I'm paying myself $25 an hour to do the work, which doesn't "wow" me.

Yeah, I have loaded a bunch of ammo on my 550, but if I was still using a 550 I would probably be buying 9mm.

The OP has a 650 sitting there, and the 650 with a case feeder and a bullet feeder is probably the value sweet spot.
But then after I bought the bullet feeder I decided WTH and got the 1100. I financed it by selling stuff that was sitting in the safe, I figured it will be something I will use until I am unable to shoot anymore.

[Molon]

Yes, unless you really enjoy the meditation of reloading.

If you spend the time dry firing it’ll take less ammo to get to the same proficiency

IMO.

No rule that says you can't dry-fire as well as hand-reload and do plenty of live-fire.

...

[Molon]

As I imagine that you are aware, you are getting into reloading at what is arguably the worst time in history to do so. There a two main reasons for reloading.

1. To produce ammunition that outperforms even the most expensive factory ammunition that you can by. Cost is irrelevant in this case.

2. To produce ammunition for training that is as good as factory loaded ammunition (or even better) at a price that is significantly lower than factory loaded ammunition.


The trick to accomplishing the second goal is to buy in large quantities at low prices during plentiful times so that you have more than enough components on hand should a shortage occur (duh). I still have thousands of components on hand for just this one particular load alone, shown in the cost break-down shown below.


https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/9mm_reloading_costs_001-2754144.jpg


….

[JCN]

No rule that says you can't dry-fire as well as hand-reload and do plenty of live-fire.

...

Not at all. It’s just that time spent on one thing takes away from another.

For me it’d be mental currency that’d be limiting. If I were reloading I would burn energy making sure everything was safe and appropriate… after a day of work I wouldn’t want to do that.

There are some times where I can turn off my conscious and still get quite a bit out of subconscious dry fire.

[mmc45414]

I'm working for $20/hr if it takes me 20 hrs all-in to load that 8k.

Yes, 20hr is a lot, but 25min a week maybe not so much. I rarely churn out much more than Qty500 at a time.

[Clusterfrack]

On my 1050, I run about 1000-1200/hr. Add brass prep (wet tumbling) and primer tube loading, it works out to about 1k/hr. I pick up range brass for about 10 min after practice, unless i'm in a rush or the weather is crap.

The biggest hassle is when something goes wrong with the press.

But all that is worth it to shoot the loads I prefer, and have a source of ammo that can support a 15-30k/yr burn rate.

[Spartan1980]

I've been buying Blazer Brass FMJ 124gr for $12.49 per box. Target Sports currently has S&B for the same price. It's just doesn't justify setting up 9mm on my Dillon 650 at this price point. If primers were still $35 per 1K it would justify it. If I had a 1050/1100 with built-in swaging that would change the justification a bit due to time spent in prep.

I still have a decent stash of pre-COVID primers but if I load them I have to replace them, so at this point in time, I choose to load them in other calibers such as .38/.357 or .45ACP which are easily justifiable. If I was shooting more than 1K a month it might help justify it too, but as it is I'm doing good to shoot 300 rounds a month. I hope to change that soon. :cool:

[358156hp]

Over the winter I pulled down over a thousand 9mm cast bullet loads to salvage components, I had to devise a new way of pulling bullets because I would be damned if I was going to beat my brains out with a hammer type puller. Anyway, the powders were all mixed so they became fertilizer, the bullets are ready to remelt, and I cleaned my single stage press really good, then resized and deprimed the brass. When I started reloading again I started out with pre-processed cases since I was tired of fiddling around with the original cases at that point. Anyway, the 1000+ plus primers were like finding free money, back when the original batch was loaded they cost around $10.00/K and we all know how much they are now. My new loads are for practice only, and the 1K jacketed bullets for this project were RMR closeouts at around $75.00/K, powder is my new old stock HP38 that I bought for $12.50/lb. In todays money that's practically free, under $100.00 for 1K practice ammo for a fussy M&P, and it kept the pistol off the used gun market.

[Hambo]

The trick to accomplishing the second goal is to buy in large quantities at low prices during plentiful times so that you have more than enough components on hand should a shortage occur (duh). I still have thousands of components on hand for just this one particular load alone, shown in the cost break-down shown below.


Or to cost average over time. I bought a lot of primers when they are cheap ($0.03). Current cost is about $0.10. If I buy the same quantity of higher cost primers, my total primer cost is still lower than current cost. The powder I use cost me X dollars at the time, but the charge in 9mm is so small that the cost is almost 0 per round.

Lies, damn lies, and reloading justification lies. ;)

[mmc45414]

Lies, damn lies, and reloading justification lies. ;)

Sooooo, if I had just kept one box that I paid $28 for, my costs would go down....
I like the (distorted) way you think!!! :cool:

[Jamie]

Rationalization is a useful tool and it's served me well going on 69 years now. :)

I stumbled onto a deal, in today's environment, for some SA (Sevvicios Aventuras) primers from Norma several weeks ago. 20% discount code and free shipping. Not knowing if they would work or not I only purchased 3K. But at $60.00/K total ($180.00 for the order) I took the risk. 4 days to deliver per FedEx.

They worked great! I tried them in a total of 4 factory stock Glocks, 9mm Shield, my LCR and Model 10. I made certain the primers were fully seated in my mixed range brass using my old Dillon 550, and RCBS hand primer and even a Lee single stage. I had 4 primers out of 400 that required a second strike but I honestly think it was my seating the primers and not the primers themselves. 100% ignition in the Glocks.

I will definitely use my rationalization and justification processes to cost average into the < $30.00/k stack of primers I have on hand.

If/when? 9mm reaches closer to $0.22/rd, preferably $0.20/rd I'll pick some up and focus my components on .38/.357 and .32 ammo production.

P-F "enabling" is a good thing! :rolleyes:

[mizer67]

I'll agree the economics of basic range fodder aren't great right now. However, my loads shoot better than the usual basic round that goes bang reliably. I don't really want to go looking for cases of a load that will shoot comparably with mine at distance. If I find it, it's probably not going to be the cheapest out there.

Even shooting VV powders and higher grain JHPs, I can get to about ~$0.20 per round in the current market, not counting older components that cost less than current market rates. The equivalent factory practice load doesn't exist, but if it did, I'd expect it'd be significantly more than $0.25 per.

Also, if I had to buy say 4-5 cases of 9mm at one time, it'd hurt a lot more psychologically than just buying bullets or powder or primers that I need at the time to keep reloading. I'm pretty sure I'd shoot less if I "felt" the true costs all at once. Maybe just a small lie I tell myself, but it works for me and how my mind processes spending money.

[mmc45414]

Maybe just a small lie I tell myself, but it works for me and how my mind processes spending money.
I have been lying to myself since 1973. The lie I tell me is that I am saving money while I am blasting away making noise :cool:

In my case I have been doing it so long I might tell myself I do not have a problem and could quit anytime I wanted to, but I just keep buying reloading equipment. I figured I was all set when I got the RL1100, but I just bought a second toolhead (that cost as much as some reloading presses...), I guess it is cheap compared to stuff like flying and racing.

[Trooper224]

A couple of days ago, I realized I was running low on bullets. This caused me to do a breakdown analysis of my costs. Let's just say that one more price increase will erase any cost savings.at all. Other than some niche rounds I shoot once in a blue moon, the reloading juice is quickly becoming unworthy of the squeeze. I was contemplating purchasing a new stand for my press. That's now on the back burner. 35 years of reloading may be coming to an end.

[willie]

I suggest taking advantage of good ammo deals and maintaining supplies to reload 9mm. That is, do both. The other centerfire handgun ammo is expensive. Reload those.

[Borderland]

A couple of days ago, I realized I was running low on bullets. This caused me to do a breakdown analysis of my costs. Let's just say that one more price increase will erase any cost savings.at all. Other than some niche rounds I shoot once in a blue moon, the reloading juice is quickly becoming unworthy of the squeeze. I was contemplating purchasing a new stand for my press. That's now on the back burner. 35 years of reloading may be coming to an end.

I can understand the logic if all you reload is 9mm or 5.56 The juice is worth the squeeze with revolver and rifle ammo except for maybe 5.56.

If I didn't reload I wouldn't have been able to shoot every few weeks for the past two years. I guess everyone's finances are different but if you're retired you save a buck where you can. Especially with things like food digging into the budget. I'm reloading with early 2019 prices because that's about the time I topped off my powder and primer stock. I bought 20 pounds of powder in 2019 and IDK how many primers. It was a bunch.

It still doesn't make any financial sense for me to buy ammo. Even 9mm or 5.56. If you didn't buy low I can see the math not working in your favor. It's a lot like the stock market.

[Trooper224]

I can understand the logic if all you reload is 9mm or 5.56 The juice is worth the squeeze with revolver and rifle ammo except for maybe 5.56.

If I didn't reload I wouldn't have been able to shoot every few weeks for the past two years. I guess everyone's finances are different but if you're retired you save a buck where you can. Especially with things like food digging into the budget. I'm reloading with early 2019 prices because that's about the time I topped off my powder and primer stock. I bought 20 pounds of powder in 2019 and IDK how many primers. It was a bunch.

It still doesn't make any financial sense for me to buy ammo. Even 9mm or 5.56. If you didn't buy low I can see the math not working in your favor. It's a lot like the stock market.

I laid in a large stock of everything pre-corona uprising and I'm still working through the primers and powder. My bullet suppliers have been good to go for a couple of years. With things like .45 Colt, .44 Magnum, 30-06 etc., the advantage is still there. But, with common service handgun calibers it's quickly reaching the point of diminishing returns for me. It doesn't help that I've always considered reloading a chore.

[TMc]

Im in NY and can reload for under $15/ 50 rnd. I cant find seeds less then $19.99 on shelves thats not including taxes. Even if I purchase bulk we need to ship to seeds to an FFL which usually charge 20% FFL fee and they take down your address and such. So after haz mat, shipping FFl fee still cant touch 15$. Plus Im going to test out some of them blu boolits. as that would drive the price down to around $10 for 50 seeds.

[Slavex]

Bullets: $0.07
Primers: $0.085
Powder: $0.015
Range brass: $0.00
$0.017 / round

you mean $0.17 / round right?

[Clusterfrack]

you mean $0.17 / round right?

Yes, dammit. I wish it was what I mistyped.

(This is more evidence that people with math degrees can't do basic math).

[Slavex]

Yes, dammit. I wish it was what I mistyped.

(This is more evidence that people with math degrees can't do basic math).

Pretty sure your math skills are just fine lol

[Nat Lambeth]

I am licensed and insured ammuition manufacture. I can load 4,000 rounds per hour with new or very good reprocessed brass. I load in excess of a 3 million rounds per year.

Even buying the components wholesale and including your time, expenses and machine cost it is very difficult to compete with large ammunition manufactures discount prices. The only thing you can do is use better components and tweek your loads for your application.

I only load 9mm or 223 for custom load applications as general ammo in these two cartridges is not cost wise to load.

I custom load rifle ammunition for both prescision target shooting and hunting ammunition. There is so much prep in this ammo that it is more expensive than factory ammo. I load thousands of 6mm BR, 6mm BRX, 6mm Dasher, 243 Win, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRS, 264 Win Mag, 270 Win, 280 AI, 284 Win, 7mm 08, 7mm Rem Mag, 300 WSM, 300 Win Mag, and others.

[Crusader]

I still think it’s worthwhile to reload 9mm, sure with primer prices it’s not as cost effective as it use to be. But I can still load 1000 9mm for roughly $70-100 cheaper then buying new, $40-50 cheaper then buying someone else’s reloads and I’m much more comfortable shooting my own hand loads.

It’s like I’ve always said I don’t save any money reloading, but I get to shoot three to four times more and that’s a huge but.

[JCS]

I still think it’s worthwhile to reload 9mm, sure with primer prices it’s not as cost effective as it use to be. But I can still load 1000 9mm for roughly $70-100 cheaper then buying new, $40-50 cheaper then buying someone else’s reloads and I’m much more comfortable shooting my own hand loads.

It’s like I’ve always said I don’t save any money reloading, but I get to shoot three to four times more and that’s a huge but.

The numbers from your last statement don't add up. It's still slightly more economical to reload if we are talking purely dollar and cents (not time) but you can shoot 25-30% more rounds for the same price, not 3-4x.

[JCS]

More food for thought....

I have roughly $2k in my press and all my reloading equipment. With current prices at a savings of $.06 per round I'd have to reload 33,000 rounds to break even.....

I upgraded presses a couple years ago and the return on investment hasn't been there. I've spent more money in reloading equipment than it would've cost me just to buy factory ammo the past two years.

[mmc45414]

My angle on this is to keep shooting more until it is cost justifying

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[Jamie]

My angle on this is to keep shooting more until it is cost justifying

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

LOL. I live by this! And it works too.

[Crusader]

The numbers from your last statement don't add up. It's still slightly more economical to reload if we are talking purely dollar and cents (not time) but you can shoot 25-30% more rounds for the same price, not 3-4x.

Oh yeah I’m not talking time invested and yes my statement may be a stretch today, but I’ve been saying that for decades.
I also shoot and reload lots of rifle, 45, 40, 38/357. The cost savings is even more with those calibers, my reloading equipment is not new, it has paid for itself many many times over. I have buckets and buckets of brass in all those calibers, bullets, primer and powder are my only expense and I don’t mind donating the time.

Even with today’s prices I find it economically sound to reload 9mm.

[bofe954]

More food for thought....

I have roughly $2k in my press and all my reloading equipment. With current prices at a savings of $.06 per round I'd have to reload 33,000 rounds to break even.....

I upgraded presses a couple years ago and the return on investment hasn't been there. I've spent more money in reloading equipment than it would've cost me just to buy factory ammo the past two years.

Right, but you will have your reloading equipment forever if you want, and it won't cost you much more. Ammo prices will continue to increase, and if this blip is like any of the half dozen or so I have been through, it will pass. I think some of the inflation is real and we won't be buying primers for $150/5k on sale anymore, but they will come down.

I used to do this math when I first starting shooting and 100 round winchester white box were 7.99 at walmart. I wish I'd have just bought a 1050 then.

If you think it's a good deal, sell your press and buy 6 cases of 9mm, and we'll revisit this thread down the road.

[mmc45414]

Part of my problem is that I have had reloading equipment since 1973 when I was saving tons reloading 38, 357, and 45. So when I transitioned to 9mm the equipment was already bought. But since the savings were not as much, I needed to do it faster, since I wasn't saving as much, so I bought better reloading equipment. Then I needed to reload more to justify it.

Shit, wait...

[SecondsCount]

Part of my problem is that I have had reloading equipment since 1973 when I was saving tons reloading 38, 357, and 45. So when I transitioned to 9mm the equipment was already bought. But since the savings were not as much, I needed to do it faster, since I wasn't saving as much, so I bought better reloading equipment. Then I needed to reload more to justify it.

Shit, wait...

I feel your pain, and bought a RL550 in 1991, then another a few years later, a 650 in 2009, and a 1050 around 2015. They have paid for themselves many times over so I can't really complain.

[mmc45414]

I know I keep circling the drain over this, but it is something that has always intrigued me. In my case it is just something I have always done so I keep doing it, without stopping to wonder if it is cost justified, I would probably screw with it if it cost the same. But...

I think it really comes down to trolling for primers. I have used up all of the $90-$120 primers I bought in a panic and am now about to start loading some I got in hand for $0.08ea. My math shows if I wanted to switch over to 115gn Blue Bullets (I won't, but...) I could be loading a case for right at $174. I also have 4.5k of them, so I am locked in at that price for at least half a year. The shipping with HazMat was $60, now I am wishing I had bought more.

I setup my www browser to automatically open several www site I check daily, and at this inventory level I have put the Ammoseek Small Primer search (https://ammoseek.com/reloading/primers?ikw=small) back into the daily startup routine. Sometime in the next 3-4mo some more will pop up, there are already some CCI out there for $0.065 before shipping, tax and HazMat.

[Corse]

9mm is only worth the effort and cost to reload during the price spikes and shortages, but that is best mitigated by stock piling ammo ahead of time and using components for far more costly calibers.

[LotI]

Others have posted similar thoughts but the real justification for me is finding “the load”. Adding the ability to make this “perfect”* load for less than the lowest of the low priced stuff justifies it.

I have found the 9mm load that works magic in my CZC A01-SD. It justifies that I take my time to load it myself at $175/case, current prices. 150gr Brass Monkey at 860fps, if you pry.

Same thing with my .223 load with a 88gr ELDM out of my bolt gun. How many factory loads are available? None.

The big advantage of 9mm and .223 is brass lying at public ranges for free. Very few reload so if I see someone packing up for the day at the range I tell them I’ll clean up their brass if I get to take it. I see the factory boxes they’re throwing in the trash so I know the lineage. If you’re thinking of reloading in the future, keep your brass! I have enough to last me if they stopped making it today, but I still pick it up. I have a ton of 30-06 once fired, and I don’t have a rifle for it.

Even with the cost of my LnL, dies, maintenance, setup, it makes sense. 300rds/hr., paying attention, taking breaks, not distracted, in a zen space, etc. It’s worth it. Winter in WI can be a bit long and TV sucks.


*until the next perfect one comes along!

[DMF13]

My 2 cents as a very new reloader, who only loads 9mm, and has no plans to load anything else.

At first I was interested in saving money, but quickly saw that, at best my break even point in cost savings, not even figuring in the cost of my time, was a couple years at the cost of a progressive setup. If time costs are calculated that stretches out even farther.

I had pretty much abandoned the idea, but a local M class shooter, who was helping me, pointed out that on short open targets my mixed cheap factory ammo wasn't a big deal. However, he had me shoot groups with some of different cheap ammo at 25 yard. While the individual groups by ammo type were okay for most of the stuff, there were definite differences in point of impact. He convinced me the real value of reloading was to always get consistent performance from the ammo, rather than worrying if there was a 3-4" shift in POI between Winchester White Box, Monarch (PPU), Blazer, or other cheap factory ammo, on stuff other than the short range open targets.

Even if I was willing to pay a premium for something other than the cheapest available 115gr FMJ 9mm, there is no guarantee I can always source that particular ammo.

So I ended up with a Hornady Lock-n-Load AP, and I think I found (mostly by blind dumb luck), a load that functions, and groups, well, out of my Glocks.