Noob Question

[Zincwarrior]

Apologies if I blew right past the answer in a stickie thread or such and can point me there if so:

Decided to jump the shark and go into optics. Installing a Vortex Venom on an M&P compact (optic ready version).
I initially installed it just to see if it would work, while in process of breaking pistol in before gunsmithing a barrel.

I placed it with one of the M&P plates and everything appears tight. However the sight appears to be extremely high. I lowered the point of aim as far as it would go and it appears still to be a foot or so high at 10 feet. I have not shot it with the site yet as I just received the pistol yesterday.

I was wondering if thats normal that the dot looks high relative to the normal front post sight? The iron sights were shooting vertically pretty well.
I was wondering if I need to take the optic off an put it on again (maybe off in that manner), that the dot normally looks a lot higher, or if there may be an Optic glitch. I haven't shot an optic before so this is all a new field and test for me.

[RoyGBiv]

Any chance it was installed 180 degrees rotated such that the front side of the optic is pointed to the rear of the gun?
Not even sure that's possible...

Should look like this... I believe..

https://i.redd.it/2t94z19n84471.jpg

[Zincwarrior]

Any chance it was installed 180 degrees rotated such that the front side of the optic is pointed to the rear of the gun?
Not even sure that's possible...

Should look like this... I believe..

https://i.redd.it/2t94z19n84471.jpg

Yes there are a lot of plates so it could happen. For some reason I can't see the image. But this is how it looks:


https://content.osgnetworks.tv/firearmsnews/content/photos/MP9-Compact-Optics-1-840.jpg

[RJ]

I wonder if it is a "get used to the dot" thing?

So here is something you can do. Situate the gun on a firm desk or table, to where it won't move, but not far from a light colored surface. Say an office or closet with a shelf. Hold the gun still with something, like a couple books, or maybe a large spring clamp on the butt. What you want to be able to do is look at the optic, and see the dot, but not move the gun.

Roger so far?

Ok, so now look down the optic, and pick up the dot. Then move your head a little, side to side. And up and down. See what happens? The dot appears "to you" to move up and down, and side to side, in the window. But of course, the dot is not moving, it's your frame of vision. If you do this right, you can "move" the dot to where it is sitting on the front sight post. Or not. This is kind of a weird thing that you realize shortly after you start shooting a dot. It doesn't matter, really, where you see the dot in the window, all that matters is the dot is on target. You will get a hit every time.

Somewhere I made a video of this, I'll have to go dig it out.



But if it's not the above, I'm not sure what exactly is going on then.

[okie john]

I haven't shot an optic before so this is all a new field and test for me.

Shoot it and see.

Back when putting a scope sight on a rifle was a new thing, lots of folks used very low-powered scopes. The shooter could often see the blurry image of the front sight post in the scope, so a lot of folks thought of the scope like a peep sight and complained because they couldn't get the front sight sharp in the scope.


Okie John

[Zincwarrior]

Thank you both. I shall try that.

[RJ]

I couldn't find that video so I did a short one here at my desk. The only thing that's moving is the camera.


https://youtu.be/s2eMl1VTeVs

[Zincwarrior]

Thats trippy.

[RoyGBiv]

Yes there are a lot of plates so it could happen. For some reason I can't see the image. But this is how it looks:




That plate looks pretty thick, but, also looks level.... Not likely a shim or something under the front end to cause a misalignment...
RJ video is a good representation...

What I did to rough sight my RDS was to line up the iron sights at a target then adjust the dot to match the same POA as my correctly aligned F-R iron sights.
The longer the room, the better, up to whatever distance you want to use for zero. Then, range time.

I bet if you lined up your iron sights for a non-dot shot, your dot would not be in the window...

Assuming, of course, that your iron sights are reasonably co-witnessed in the dot window.

[stomridertx]

My 3 steps to zeroing pistol red dots that is working well for me:
1. After mounting the optic,dim the dot to where it's barely visible, and adjust it to where the dot is sitting on top of the front sight post when you have a good iron sight picture in your normal shooting posture. This gets you a rough but usuable zero right away. The optic is way more precise than your irons so you do not want to stop here.
2. At the range, zero the dot at 10 yards from your normal standing shooting position.
3. At the range, shoot a 25 yard 5 round group with a good rest and check the windage portion of the zero, adjust accordingly. As distance increases, a slight windage offset will reveal itself. Alternatively, shoot the first string of the FBI Bullseye test standing which is 10 rounds at 25 yards on a B8. This will also show you any windage correction that needs to happen.

[Pnut]

Have you zero’d the red red dot yet? I purchased a Venom a year ago and couldn’t get the dot zeroed. It shot about 6” low with the adjustments maxed out… on 2 different guns! I contacted Vortex and they recommended using a shim plate by UM Tactical. The shim solved the problem.

[Zincwarrior]

Have you zero’d the red red dot yet? I purchased a Venom a year ago and couldn’t get the dot zeroed. It shot about 6” low with the adjustments maxed out… on 2 different guns! I contacted Vortex and they recommended using a shim plate by UM Tactical. The shim solved the problem.

I have not. Will this weekend. I will try what everyone has suggested. Hopefully I will not have to contact them as you had to to did.

[RoyGBiv]

I purchased a Venom a year ago and couldn’t get the dot zeroed. It shot about 6” low with the adjustments maxed out… on 2 different guns! I contacted Vortex and they recommended using a shim plate by UM Tactical. The shim solved the problem.

I'd have sent that one back to the factory...
Total BS having to 1. Pay for a shim and 2. Create another gap under the optic that would need cleaning occasionally...
No thank you.... Please take this one back and send me one that works correctly. :rolleyes:

YMMV, of course, but, wow.

[RJ]

I'd have sent that one back to the factory...
Total BS having to 1. Pay for a shim and 2. Create another gap under the optic that would need cleaning occasionally...
No thank you.... Please take this one back and send me one that works correctly. :rolleyes:

YMMV, of course, but, wow.

If it was for a 1911, I could understand why it might need a shim plate. They appear to offer three different 1 degree shim plates.

https://www.umtactical.com/store/c22/OPTIC_SHIMS.html

[Pnut]

It seems like I wasn’t the only person with this problem. The fact that Vortex customer Service was aware of the problem AND the solution seemed odd. Also, after reading all the comments on the UM Tac site proved that it was a common problem. In hindsight, I could have sent it back, but it has functioned fine with the shim. It now lives on my Ruger 22/45 which is just a range toy.

[JCS]

Apologies if I blew right past the answer in a stickie thread or such and can point me there if so:

Decided to jump the shark and go into optics. Installing a Vortex Venom on an M&P compact (optic ready version).
I initially installed it just to see if it would work, while in process of breaking pistol in before gunsmithing a barrel.

I placed it with one of the M&P plates and everything appears tight. However the sight appears to be extremely high. I lowered the point of aim as far as it would go and it appears still to be a foot or so high at 10 feet. I have not shot it with the site yet as I just received the pistol yesterday.

I was wondering if thats normal that the dot looks high relative to the normal front post sight? The iron sights were shooting vertically pretty well.
I was wondering if I need to take the optic off an put it on again (maybe off in that manner), that the dot normally looks a lot higher, or if there may be an Optic glitch. I haven't shot an optic before so this is all a new field and test for me.

How do you know it’s a foot high if you haven’t shot it? Are your irons cowitnessed to your specific optic?

[Zincwarrior]

How do you know it’s a foot high if you haven’t shot it? Are your irons cowitnessed to your specific optic?

I shot it with the irons - 200 rounds (400 more to go then it goes off to the smith).

Later I was testing to see if the optic worked as a test (and if seeing it works with my eyes). I sighted up on a doorknob (a very technical test) with the iron sights and lowering to get the dot into view is where I came up with the "er is this a problem?" hence I was wondering if I had just put it on wrong. I'll shoot it 200 rounds more this weekend and if its super off in the real world then I'll take it off and try again or go from there.
if it really is the dot will send back. But I like it and can actually see it.*


(when I take my glasses off its like a red street light on top my pistol weeee!)