What is it About Revolvers and Older Pistols?

[Moped]

What make us hanker for older technological revolvers and semi-autos? Are we reliving our youth? Is a yearning for simpler things? Is it the beauty found in wood and steel? I find myself coming to P-F and skimming through the Semi-Auto threads and then moving on to the Revolver Sub-forum, where I read just about everything. Revolvers are just so much more fascinating to me than semi-autos, unless it's something older, like a 1911, Hi-Power or Mil-Surp. However, most of the time, I carry a modern auto. Go figure!

[Hizzie]

I enjoy wheelguns more. They are usually what I reach for when it matters.

[Totem Polar]

I feel that revolvers are more interesting, complex, and challenging to run at speed. I also just like the aesthetics, both visually and kinesthetically. That said, with the exception of the much-discussed gas station j-frame pocket carry scenario, developing serious proficiency with one is a bit like developing serious proficiency with a rapier in fencing class. Gobs of fun, but practically eclipsed by newer tools.

I’ve been running revolvers in USPSA fun shoots for several months, with two predictable results: one, more polished skills and, two: abysmal times relative to carry optics or limited. That particular game does not favor 3 (or more!) reloads on the clock.

If there was a match that tested leaving a gun loaded for 6 months while you were too busy with work to get to the range, and then running the first stage cold, I’d own that crowd with the ol’ round gun. They have their place. Which is mostly as an enthusiast tool/activity. JMO.

[sharps54]

I think for most of us nostalgia plays a big part. The fact that polymer striker powered guns have no soul also plays a big part and good wheel guns are cheaper than 1911s. :cool:

I think objectively outside specific use cases (j frames, people with specific physical ailments or no desire to learn more complicated manuals of arms) it is pretty hard to say a revolver is a better defensive/duty/competitive tool than say a Glock or D model 92 (insert compact or full size service pistol of your choice) but as long as we can stay honest with ourselves about that there is no harm with having a love affair with them.

Edit to add I took way to long to type this as I’m just beating the horse at this point

[FrankB]

I grew up with Westerns, and those actors had revolvers. Nostalgia, mixed with revolvers being mechanically more interesting to me.

[FNFAN]

The terminology of "plastic-people-popper" is accurate. The last 10 years of my career was with an issued Glock and were all rules observed, if the gun was fired without a range officer standing nearby, a report would have to be written and supervision alerted. I bought the same generation in 9mm and used the same sights, backstrap and holster for classes and IDPA. Now retired, I have little interest in shooting anything except 1911's, EDC X9 or a revolver, again. The stars aligned in my last week of work and I was able to pick up a CCO that had been worked over by a 'smith I've long admired and I am sincerely grateful to have found it and to have been able to afford it.

[Tamara]

It’s…complicated.

Like, if someone was like “you can only own one pistol and it has to suffice for e’rrthing…” then, yeah, sure, I’m going to have some kind of plastic service pistol with a 15-17rd mag and a dot and a light and all that shit, because, you know…what if?

But I have zero interest in those things these days. I got most of my fangirling for that stuff out of my system 20 years ago and now I look at people getting all wound up about Glock v. SIG v. S&W v. FN v. HK v. Walther or whatever, and I’m like “Dude, they’re all the same gun. Pull one out of the sack and go dry-fire.”

But also for the last 20 years I’ve separated “work guns (https://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2009/12/unexcited.html)” from “guns I love”, and since then (with very few exceptions) if it’s not an older Smith or a custom 1911, it’s just another fungible commodity blaster.

[Outpost75]

An old gun that works beats a new one which doesn't. How many plastic bottom feeders are still going to be working in 100 years?

[Tamara]

An old gun that works beats a new one which doesn't. How many plastic bottom feeders are still going to be working in 100 years?

That’s a specious argument. I’ve gotten rid of most of my Glocks because I’m generally focusing on FN 509s these days, but my 30-plus-year-old Gen2 Glocks still work just fine, so miss me with that shit.

Besides, you and I won’t be around in a hundred years to care.

[Trooper224]

We've discussed this many times. Do a search for "passion for the gun". That will tell you what you want to know.

[JCN]

I still drive a manual transmission in the summer.

[Joe in PNG]

Passion for older guns is a lot like the passion for other older items like watches, cameras, cars, guitars & amps, and so on.

A modern Toyota Camery or Ford Explorer will blow the doors off of most vintage sportscars. And will be way more comfortable, easier to drive, reliable, maneuverable, ect. But there's just something about a '65 Mustang GT or whatever ancient car one may fancy.

[Jason M]

I grew up with Westerns, and those actors had revolvers. Nostalgia, mixed with revolvers being mechanically more interesting to me.

Adam-12 for me.

[Totem Polar]

Passion for older guns is a lot like the passion for other older items like watches, cameras, cars, guitars & amps, and so on...

And Air-cooled motorcycles. Don't forget to add cooling fins and Kerkers to your list of things that make joyous noises unto everyone's favorite Lord...

(Says the guy with a hand cranker watch, maple acoustics, nos swedish tubes in his DIs, and a safe full of round things--several of which are older than himself...)
;)

[Lester Polfus]

Totally agree with Tamara regarding the fungibility of roughly Glock 19ish sized 9mm plastic people poppers for folks that primarily "operate" in an urban/suburban environment. Years ago I invested in a significant number of Gen 3 Glock 19 pistols. If they all burned up in a house fire or something I would probably buy some other iteration of a mid-sized 9mm plastic people popper, but nothing has come along with enough of an incremental improvement for me to spend the money on the switching costs of a new platform.

Aside from the Passion Of The Gun that I've developed for revolvers, I'd argue that for rural/outdoorsy folks, a 4" adjustable sight magnum revolver is the Glock 19 equivalent. It offers capabilities that mid-sized service pistols don't. One day last fall I shot two rabbits with .38 Special wadcutters in the morning, and that evening while they were marinating for tacos, I had the same revolver in hand trying to put a 140-grain Barnes into a spike buck. He won that particular game of hide and seek because there was just too much vegetation between us, but if things had gone slightly differently, I could have just as easily been cutting up a deer courtesy of the same revolver that fetched me the rabbits.

When we venture into big critter country, the GP100 with 180-grain hard cast is a good companion. I also am better able to get hits at longer ranges, 100 yards+ with an adjustable sighted magnum revolver than a service-pistol-sized gun.

I could do all of those things with a G19, but not as well.

I also would argue that J-frame-sized revolvers make better deep concealment and FUT guns than small autoloaders.

So for me it's a mix of very practical and some Passion of The Gun type stuff.


In the hypothetical "if I could only own one" scenario, for an urban/suburban life a Glock 19 equivalent gets the nod. For how I live now, it's the 4" adjustable sight .357.

[FrankB]

Adam-12 for me.

My wife and I bought all of the Adam 12 seasons. Martin Milner used his own personal Model 15 when they switched from 6” M14’s to 4” M15’s.

101877

[Borderland]

It's the nostalgia of a revolver. Same with lever and single shot rifles.

An elegant weapon, for a more civilized age.

[Lost River]

An old gun that works beats a new one which doesn't. How many plastic bottom feeders are still going to be working in 100 years?


Well considering that I have a multiple examples of Gen 1 (1980s) and Gen 2 (early 90s) Glocks that are already 30-40 years old, and function absolutely perfectly in spite of being shot a lot, odds are that they will be functioning perfectly by the time they hit the century mark.



For me personally I like revolvers, as I tend to associate them with recreational pastimes and I associate autos with work. Having carried guns for work for a very long time, when I see the various semi autos, I just think about work duty type roles usually. When I see a nice revolver, I think about how it would fill a role for me recreationally, such as hiking, hunting, camping, etc.

The funny thing is that I very often carry a semi auto recreationally due to the practical nature of them, provided that it meets the needs of whatever I am going to be doing.

[mtnbkr]

I still drive a manual transmission in the summer.

Wuss. I drive one year-round. :D

That said, even though I've mostly driven sticks for my entire driving "career", if I never had to drive them again after tomorrow I wouldn't mind. Living with NoVA traffic has beaten any enjoyment of manual transmissions out of me. I won't buy another unless it's a vintage vehicle (and my '97 4Runner is closing in on that "vintage" classification).

Chris

[mtnbkr]

Passion for older guns is a lot like the passion for other older items like watches, cameras, cars, guitars & amps, and so on.

A modern Toyota Camery or Ford Explorer will blow the doors off of most vintage sportscars. And will be way more comfortable, easier to drive, reliable, maneuverable, ect. But there's just something about a '65 Mustang GT or whatever ancient car one may fancy.

Grassroots Motorsports did a track test between a new Honda Odyssey, a vintage Porsche, and another vintage sports car that I forget. The Honda hung with the sports cars in stock form, but smoked them once real tires were installed. This was over a decade ago and I'm sure the newer Odysseys are even better. But, the old Porsche would elicit more ownership joy.

Chris

[mtnbkr]

I have loved revolvers ever since the first centerfire gun I fired was a k-frame 38 snubnose. It just imprinted on me like a baby duck. But, from a practicality perspective, I'm just as well served by a Glock 48. I *like* the revolvers, but the Glock is what I strap on more often than not, even in the field.

Chris

[JAH 3rd]

For me it's more of the times that are associated with the object, in this case a revolver. Just think back to the introduction of S&W's first stainless steel revolver. Or the S&W model 59, a wonder nine. Or when Dirty Harry was making everyone's day with a model 29. Nostalgia indeed!!

On a similar note, but different subject matter. I was listening to the radio in my car and a Van Halen Power Ballad took me back as if I was in a time machine. Not really and Van Halen fan, but man, this song transported me back. Lyrics still run true today. Give is a listen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uhMCzTvV9Y

[358156hp]

I keep cycling back and forth too. The truth is that I started out with revolvers and 1911s, and I'm very comfortable with both platforms. I have a half dozen plastic crunchentickers (V2.0) in the safe, and a respectable number of 1911s in Gods Caliber, but I'm a bit low on revolvers right now, only 3-4 and this is below my comfort level. All I can say is that DA revolvers and 1911s are the way I feel life is supposed to be. For some crazy reason I still want one of those 2 tone 2 inch 327s in 357 mag for a carry gun. Damn they're expensive right now.

[rainman]

And Air-cooled motorcycles. Don't forget to add cooling fins and Kerkers to your list of things that make joyous noises unto everyone's favorite Lord...

(Says the guy with a hand cranker watch, maple acoustics, nos swedish tubes in his DIs, and a safe full of round things--several of which are older than himself...)
;)

Luddite! :D

I can identify...Kawasaki triples with Bill Wirges expansion chambers, and with the smell of Castrol-R!

Thanks for bringing back some great memories of fun times and the childhood I haven't fully left.

Oh; I also like revolvers and always read the P-F revolver forum. My thanks to all who have and continue to contribute.


-Rainman

[Moped]

Well some interesting turns here. For the record, my first pistol was a 4" S&W Mdl 13. It looked good and was good for a couple cylinders of .357, then the cylinder would lock up and become very hard to open. Ended up trading it off for the first of 2 Mini 14s, I had over the years. I switched to semi-autos as the Wonder nine age came into being.

The next S&W I picked from a pawn shop in Fayetteville NC, after i came back from Desert Storm. It was a 2.5 inch Mdl 19. Cool looking revolver, until the barrel came unscrewed. Quickly lost my love for that one. There was a 6" Security Six, a couple of J-Frames in .32 S&W Long (really wish I had kept that one) and .38s. Then I bought a Colt Agent a retired Postal Inspector. It was his back up piece and he even told me it loved the 130gr Federal Nyclads. And he was right!!! It really did. Revolvers were dead at that point. LE had complete moved to SAs in 9mm and .40. But I carried that old Colt a lot. That was the only pistol I ever pointed at someone, with intent to defend myself. Fortunately, i didn't have to use it. Wish I still had that one, but I found something else I wanted more, so off it went.

I went revolverless for several years afterwards. But now I'm back. Still mostly carry semi-autos. But every now and then, I get nostalgic and the 442 slips back into a holster or a pocket along with a couple of speed strips. And I carry a Taurus 627 Tracker when I hike and camp. Starting to look favorably on Taurus 856 Defender with the 3" barrel. Could be my next purchase. Or it might be a used S&W mdl 64-6 that's located in Upper East Tennessee. Not sure I really want another 4" though. So I'm setting on it right now. I like collecting old things. And I like shooter guns. Don't really care for collector items. If I own them, then they get shot. Revolvers feel like old friends to me now. They have a soul that most of the new pistols don't have. So I come here gloss through the Semi-Auto section and read everything in the Revolver section and I learn from y'all.

Other things I'm interested in are old Barlow knives, other folding knives and believe it or not, old compasses. So when my wife and I go antiquing, those are some of the things I look for, along with old holsters and leather shooting accessories.

As for manual transmissions, their fun to drive fast, but they suck in stop and go traffic, so you can have them. At a couple of months shy of 60, I've graduated to full time automatics, even in sports cars! :)

[revchuck38]

For whatever reason, I just shoot K frames in .38 Special better than any of my autoloaders...well, right up until that seventh shot. :rolleyes: I usually carry an autoloader for the capacity, but I'm always arguing with myself about "what's the chance of needing a more-than-two-bad-guy gun" with the places a 71-year-old guy goes who's in bed by 2130 every night? The internal struggle is real! LOL

[Borderland]

For whatever reason, I just shoot K frames in .38 Special better than any of my autoloaders...well, right up until that seventh shot. :rolleyes: I usually carry an autoloader for the capacity, but I'm always arguing with myself about "what's the chance of needing a more-than-two-bad-guy gun" with the places a 71-year-old guy goes who's in bed by 2130 every night? The internal struggle is real! LOL

We aren't exactly operators or federal marshals, are we?

I just built my own combat cane. I still carry but it's a model 36 most of the time. Not a lot of fire power there. Just keep a respectful distance.....or die. ;)

[Spartan1980]

Just sold a plastic fantastic today and picked up another for a new carry gun. I have a few more to liquidate and there are several that I'll keep but I'm "restructuring" my safe contents to an extent.

I have 4 Glocks now and will acquire 2 or 3 more, but those are just game guns so they don't really count. The new carry gun is a tool, it will get modded, carried and abused by shooting the living shit out of it if all goes to plan.

I'm going a different direction with the guns that bring me enjoyment. They will be limited to interesting revolvers, 1911s, Sig P2xx autos (especially the Swiss made P210 I have yet to acquire), Beretta autos and a Walther or two. The plastic HKs will remain but the rest will be just for pure fun.

[Catshooter]

Do you mean other than class, beauty and certain sense of just out-and-out style? I have no idea.

For serious fighting? Glock every time, thank you. But how do you beat hot dipped blue with nitre blue on the same piece? Throw in some old time color cased hardening, get the fuck out with that ugly Glock.

But I'm them too.

[willie]

Discontinued guns often become sought after. One example is that group of Winchester long guns discontinued after 1963/64. Two other examples are certain Colt, S&W, and Ruger products. In my area like used but like new K frames, all J frames, and many older Colt revolvers dropped in value during the 1980's and 90's. Fortunately I bought and kept a large number at low prices. Collector value was not my motivation. I just liked them. Today these guns are trendy, and for this reason a band wagon exists. Too the internet fans this flame. People with money are constantly driving up prices on fine specimens in the same way that the rich are driving up land prices. On forums people influence each other to buy all this stuff. Speaking of PF'ers, most appreciate these older revolvers which I too like. Nostalgia is a factor. Appreciation of a well built revolver is another. I have two new Model 10's. One is unfired. I will give it my 12 year old cousin. I grew up with his grandfather who hunts and fishes and shoots with him several times per week. The Model 10 will go to GrandPa and then given to boy to use. The plan is that the revolver will stay at Grandpa's, and the boy as he hunts and fishes in this rural wilderness will carry it and then return it to the old man.

[JonInWA]

Revolvers tend to be inherently accurate, and are both fun and challenging to shoot, with their long trigger pull and required triggerpull triggerfinger repositioning as the trigger traverses through its pull arc to firing. Reloading requires a special skill set of its own as well. Cleaning is remarkably easy, and lubrication/general maintenance is low.

I'm also not entirely buying the "soulless" concept attributed to polymer platforms. To me, what attributes "soul" to an inanimate object or tool is my ability to successfully interface with it, and operationally use it, and/or modify it as necessary or desirable to incrementally improve.

No doubt that at it's time of inception the 1911 was probably decried "soulless" compared to a Colt single action revolver, or that the bolt-action rifle was considered "soulless" compared to a rolling-block single shot rifle. Or the FN FAL compared to the FN-49, or the M16 compared to the M-14....you get my drift.

Just because something is modernized, capable of increased capacity/performance/inexpensive to produce and purchase doesn't necessarily make it "soulless."

Ok, back to revolvers. In addition to their accuracy and durability, a perceived hindrance has been their limited capacity (compared to semi-automatic pistols, particularly those with higher capacity magazines), and a relatively complex reloading process. As more states enact magazine capacity limitations, I suspect that shooters will re-evaluate which gun works best for them on a more even playing field, where the merits of inherent magazine capacity will play a diminished role as a selection criteria.

Reloadability will of course continue to be a criteria, but I suspect that it's necessity may have been overstated; most lethal encounters in the U.S. tend to be resolved by 3-5 shots, according to FBI statistics. Of course, it sucks to be you if you're the individual requiring more than 6 shots situationally to successfully resolve....

Revolver reloading is an acquirable skill-set. It requires more familiarity, training and continued practice, and is less instinctive than reloading mose magazine-fed semi-automatic weapons.

Those are my meandering thoughts. I'll admit, in most of my use scenarios, I'm more likely to default to a semi-automatic (both metal- or polymer- framed). But I don't neglect my revolvers, and still tend to used them as a primary platform for at least 2 months out of the year. Because I can, and because situationally (or politically) in the future I may have to.

And yeah, I also like the echoes of history they personify and remind me of. Especially with my RUger Blackhawk single-action...

Best, Jon

[JTMcC]

There are legit reasons beyond nostalgia for at least some of us. When you have a possible need for bigger bore, bigger meplat, more horsepower... revolvers deliver that very reliably while still functioning with much lighter loads.
Maybe a small percentage of shooters but it's a real subset.

[JCN]

Wuss. I drive one year-round. :D

That said, even though I've mostly driven sticks for my entire driving "career", if I never had to drive them again after tomorrow I wouldn't mind. Living with NoVA traffic has beaten any enjoyment of manual transmissions out of me. I won't buy another unless it's a vintage vehicle (and my '97 4Runner is closing in on that "vintage" classification).

Chris

I’m all for the Subaru CVT and adaptive cruise for traffic.

It’s somewhere between a Glock and Sig of vehicles.

Not going to win beauty contests, can push it off a cliff and replace it the next day with what’s in stock locally. Love it for the functional competence. And not going to break the bank.

[Trooper224]

I've carried Glocks as issued weapons for years. I have no doubt I'll end my professional gun toting with one. I have no negative feelings about them, never have. They're the epitome of a tool built for task. I've never owned one, but I have owned several other plastic fantastics. They've all moved on. To me they're the Bic lighters of handguns. Beat it up, wear it out, get a new one. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Revolvers stir my soul. They're my happy place guns that I pull out whenever I just want to escape. A four inch Model 29 is the classic backwoods gun for me. A single action evokes visions of gunfights and dusty streets, of chasing bandits through the purple sage. Triple Locks and New Services conjure visions of intrepid explorers.

I've come to realize, the 1911 is my gun. I experiment with other things but alway return to it. I shot one for the first time at five years old and we've done everything one can do together with a gun. I have complete confidence in its ability to rise to the occasion, as long as I do. Discussions revolving around capacity, weight, reliability, etc., are just semantic masturbation I don't have patience for.

These are my opinions, they may not be yours and that's fine. You make YOUR choices and take YOUR chances.

[JRV]

I carry snubs. Some vintage, some modern. My handgun collection is almost exclusively comprised of vintage target revolvers and 1911s. Sometimes I carry a hard-chromed lightweight Commander.

Why? Don't know. If a butterfly flapped its wings wrong in China in 1985, I might have been one of those turbovirgins spending Python money on Glock clones because titanium gold platings, Keanu Reeves movies, and shooting harems. I could have been a bandwagon 2011 nerd, desperate to be perceived as an "early adopter." I could have been an absolute weeb carrying a Jericho ("see you, space cowboy") or modding a Beretta into the "Samurai Edge." But, I wasn't. I was raised by two loving parents and turned out respectable.

Guns and gun choices above the bare functional minimums are by definition an affectation. My "needs" are a reliable, concealable (in professional clothing), and shootable firearm that holds multiple shots. I could dress around almost anything to make that happen. I could carry a Taurus G3C. I could carry a 642. I could carry a Glock of any compact flavor. I could carry an EDCX9. I could carry an LCP Max. It doesn't matter. I picked what I like handling and shooting.

Like cars, watches, knives, phones... once you get past minimum utility, people make choices based on personal taste, reputation, nostalgia, self-perception, tribalism, heritage, advertising, novelty, and influence. Needs don't go very far. I like snubs. I have vintage watches (and G-shocks, the collection is a mess). I like knives in CTS-XHP and K390. I prefer iPhones because of the simplicity. I think people overstate (and overpay for) the "quality" of German vehicle manufacturing.

There is an absolutely miniscule chance of dying in a criminal act because your gun wasn't "enough." Miniscule. You know what will kill you? Cancer discovered too late. Heart disease. Inattentive drivers. Alcohol. Tobacco. Gluttony. Sedentary living. Carrying a 1911 or a vintage snub won't kill you any deader than being overweight, being a smoker, or not getting quality sleep. Carrying an Atlas with a Modlite and an SRO isn't going to save you from cirrhosis, not getting colonoscopies, or asshole texting and driving. General awareness and avoidance will keep you out of places where you are likely to encounter violence. Avoid dumb places at dumb times with dumb people, and you'll probably live to a ripe old age armed only with pepper spray and a good flashlight.

Buy and use the things that make you happy. There's no reward for being a ascetic utilitarian gun owner. Just don't be incompetent, unsafe, or unhealthy. Don't outspend your budget There are consequences for those behaviors.

[Dusty Stone]

Personally I'm far more accurate with a revolver... bit my teeth back in the early 70's with the S&W mod 10 in the USAF, it's been a love affair since. I don't like plastic semi autos period, nor the plastic revolvers either.. give me a S&W, Colt or Ruger all steel revolver. :cool:

[jtcarm]

It’s…complicated.

Like, if someone was like “you can only own one pistol and it has to suffice for e’rrthing…” then, yeah, sure, I’m going to have some kind of plastic service pistol with a 15-17rd mag and a dot and a light and all that

One handgun for everything = double-action .357.

[jtcarm]

I still drive a manual transmission in the summer.

AKA “Millennial Anti-Theft Device”

[Tamara]

One handgun for everything = double-action .357.

If I lived in the sticks somewhere west of the Mississippi, sure.

[revchuck38]

If I lived in the sticks somewhere west of the Mississippi, sure.

Well, I live in suburbia west of the Mississippi, where does that leave me? :) Maybe I'll just go with a double-action .38!

[42Willys]

I like revolvers because I can shoot them accurately, I prefer a good K frame DA trigger to pretty much anything else, they are easy to load cartridges for, and the dry fire, oh the dry fire. Revolvers are also easy to carry, even service size guns carry easy thanks to their design, the butt tucks right behind your back in a 4:00 carry position.

One can practice pretty much every aspect of shooting except recoil control with a dry revolver, for free. Because the revolver operates entirely on human energy, you can get a lot of realistic practice snaps in easy.

I find hard wired revolver skills transfer well between guns - I can pick up a J frame, an airweight K frame, or a steel
K frame and don’t need to dry fire for an hour to know I can grip the gun and use the trigger.

[jtcarm]

If I lived in the sticks somewhere west of the Mississippi, sure.

There’s plenty of sticks east of the Mississippi and plenty four-legged things that might need killing.

[Tamara]

There’s plenty of sticks east of the Mississippi and plenty four-legged things that might need killing.

Mm-hm. We're overdue for some bearthread (https://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/search?q=bearthread).

101935

[45dotACP]

Idk why I love this python I just bought.

But I do. It's just cool. And the rule of cool still applies.

Yes I have a few guns for when I need to scuba dive or parachute out of planes with a knife in my teeth or something...but that's not what this whole hobby is to me. Only in part is this about self defense. The other (bigger) part is fun.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[Joe S]

Mm-hm. We're overdue for some bearthread (https://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/search?q=bearthread).

101935

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Gotta make sure ya don't get kilt in the sticks.

[JRV]

Mm-hm. We're overdue for some bearthread (https://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/search?q=bearthread).

101935

Your carry gun needs to be able to handle—decisively, with no compromise—rabid brown bears, gators, angry moose, obese criminals in winter clothes, barricaded samurai, the entire first act of Red Dawn, and armored car windshields.

Because “you never knowTM” what you might run into while hiking, fishing, sitting at your office pretending to work, or stopping at Sheetz for cheese sticks.

[sharps54]

Your carry gun needs to be able to handle—decisively, with no compromise—rabid brown bears, gators, angry moose, obese criminals in winter clothes, barricaded samurai, the entire first act of Red Dawn, and armored car windshields.

Because “you never knowTM” what you might run into while hiking, fishing, sitting at your office pretending to work, or stopping at Sheetz for cheese sticks.

Best way to do that is to look to fiction for the answers. Like when Robert Parker has Spenser carrying a j frame with an empty chamber under the hammer. Four is plenty, right? :rolleyes:

[Tamara]

Your carry gun needs to be able to handle—decisively, with no compromise—rabid brown bears, gators, angry moose, obese criminals in winter clothes, barricaded samurai, the entire first act of Red Dawn, and armored car windshields.

Because “you never knowTM” what you might run into while hiking, fishing, sitting at your office pretending to work, or stopping at Sheetz for cheese sticks.

thisguygetsit.jpeg

[Moped]

Best way to do that is to look to fiction for the answers. Like when Robert Parker has Spenser carrying a j frame with an empty chamber under the hammer. Four is plenty, right? :rolleyes:

:D

I like Robert Parker books and TV shows, but he was somewhat clueless about firearms. Same for Ian Fleming. Fortunately, the Producers for Spencer for Hire and the Jesse Stone series of made for TV movies, seemed to do their firearms homework and turned out quality products.

[Joe in PNG]

:D

I like Robert Parker books and TV shows, but he was somewhat clueless about firearms. Same for Ian Fleming. Fortunately, the Producers for Spencer for Hire and the Jesse Stone series of made for TV movies, seemed to do their firearms homework and turned out quality products.

John D MacDonald also had a tendency to not really know guns. The part about testing the safety catch on a Colt Police Positive for instance.

[45dotACP]

I will add on...the snub still has some legit intelligent use cases.

Even if you're a freak of nature with a blazing AIWB draw like GJM or JCN, A gun that you can keep a hand on in view of the public but can swiftly produce from your pocket and score a hit in a second or less?

I mean it doesn't get any more Sgt. Doakes than that.

That probably pretty much handles 90 percent of "things you need a gun for" both east and west of the Mississippi.

I am all for that latest and greatest 15-17 round plasticblastermatic, but I will pretty much always have a snub handy just because of how useful it is. I view it on par with the Glock 19 as one of the most utilitarian choices in a lethal force tool...just for different reasons sorta

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[JCN]

45dotACP

Thanks for the shout out. Totally agree and 99% of times I carry a weak side pocket revolver.

[sharps54]

:D

I like Robert Parker books and TV shows, but he was somewhat clueless about firearms. Same for Ian Fleming. Fortunately, the Producers for Spencer for Hire and the Jesse Stone series of made for TV movies, seemed to do their firearms homework and turned out quality products.

I wonder if Tom Selleck had anything to do with the 1911 and handling of it in the Jesse Stone tv films?

I have learned to just accept that authors are going to make mistakes where guns are concerned but some of them, like Spenser running around with four shots in his J frame while justifying it as ok, are pretty bad.

[mikey357]

Idk why I love this python I just bought.

But I do. It's just cool. And the rule of cool still applies.

Yes I have a few guns for when I need to scuba dive or parachute out of planes with a knife in my teeth or something...but that's not what this whole hobby is to me. Only in part is this about self defense. The other (bigger) part is fun.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

...and Revolvers are just more fun--MUCH more fun--Than Bottomfeeders are...

[Malamute]

As many others have mentioned, I like revolvers far more than autos, besides shooting them better, in both mechanical accuracy in most examples, and in my ability to shoot the gun to its abilities. Revolvers have always seemed easier to achieve higher abilities with less work for me, and the skill level doesnt seem as perishable as with autos. YMMV of course, thats my take on it.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Spenser - is about 90 years old and is still a H2H whiz as he boxed against Jersey Joe Walcott. Susan Silverman is a goddess that all men worship. In one book, he had to assault some bad guy's compound and recruited gang bangers as all those criminals were the best shots on the planet. Spenser chose a lever action for the fight - grandpa. You think a Korean War vet would at least get a Garand.

The books got stupider as time went on. They became all quips and love of Susan. In the end, Parker introduced a totally politically incorrect Native American that made me cringe. Kellermans' (wife and hubby) books are similarly going down hill.

The Lucas Davenport have some anti civilian gun rhetoric at times, mocking civilian commando types, but have their gun stuff pretty well OK. Letty's gun fight with the cartel was awesome.

I will agree that a pocket J frame is a great pocket gun. For a close in, one opponent gun over the eggplant in the supermarket - it's just fine.

[sharps54]

Spenser - is about 90 years old and is still a H2H whiz as he boxed against Jersey Joe Walcott. Susan Silverman is a goddess that all men worship. In one book, he had to assault some bad guy's compound and recruited gang bangers as all those criminals were the best shots on the planet. Spenser chose a lever action for the fight - grandpa. You think a Korean War vet would at least get a Garand.

The books got stupider as time went on. They became all quips and love of Susan. In the end, Parker introduced a totally politically incorrect Native American that made me cringe. Kellermans' (wife and hubby) books are similarly going down hill.

The Lucas Davenport have some anti civilian gun rhetoric at times, mocking civilian commando types, but have their gun stuff pretty well OK. Letty's gun fight with the cartel was awesome.

I will agree that a pocket J frame is a great pocket gun. For a close in, one opponent gun over the eggplant in the supermarket - it's just fine.

The first solo novel with Letty got much worse as far as the anti gun rhetoric, in fact I didn’t even finish the book. You aren’t wrong about Spenser getting more and more cliche as the series went on.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

You're right about that in the Letty novels. It's a bit strange. Clearly, Letty was trained up and an argument for home SD guns in her 22S single shot fight with the bad cop and then the cartel. But even in the first Lucas books, IIRC there was a chase through a yard where a Fudd with a shotgun trots out and shoots a cop tangling with a dog in his yard, when the cops come over the fence in pursuit. Mocks the civilian, might be justified in the case.

But better than the Spenser and Kellerman books for a read. Another author who went to Hell was Stuart Woods. The last set of Barrington books were horrible but he was dying, it seems and might be ghost written. The gun usage and carry was so inconsistent.

[FNFAN]

The first solo novel with Letty got much worse as far as the anti gun rhetoric, in fact I didn’t even finish the book. You aren’t wrong about Spenser getting more and more cliche as the series went on.

Letty dispatching the cartel filth was excellent as was her subsequent sit-down with Lucas. I wonder if we will see more derogatory material from Sandford as he’s getting up there in age and I’ve noted people seem to go all in on the, “nobody needs a ______” as they get older.

My last two gun purchases were both Colt’s. An original Trooper and a CCO 1911. 99.9% of my carry time is served by my 642 j-frame with the rest being road trips or to and from matches.

[HCM]

An old gun that works beats a new one which doesn't. How many plastic bottom feeders are still going to be working in 100 years?

I like/own/ shoot many old guns but as some one who carries a gun for “real” you are 100% wrong. I subscribe to Tamara’s “work gun” / “fun gun” theory but one needs to be realistic about what they are respectively.

I won’t be working in 100 years so I don’t care about that in a work gun. It’s simply a tool for killing people or animals which need killing. It’s simplt easier to accomplish that task with a plastic fantastic vs a rock, a claw hammer or a plastic shiv. If it goes into evidence CONUS or down a storm drain OCONUS after it serves its purpose I just go get another.

Not to mention that regardless of aesthetics, plastic people poppers are both more durable and reliable (in terms of mean rounds between failures) than any of my older guns.

[Rex G]

As many others have mentioned, I like revolvers far more than autos, besides shooting them better, in both mechanical accuracy in most examples, and in my ability to shoot the gun to its abilities. Revolvers have always seemed easier to achieve higher abilities with less work for me, and the skill level doesnt seem as perishable as with autos. YMMV of course, thats my take on it.

My take agrees with your take. The less-perishable skill aspect was especially helpful during the panic-demic, when it was necessary to stay away from folks, due my wife’s health risk factors, and the “less work” part remains important, in times of less abundance of ammo and handloading components.

[Stephanie B]

Spenser - is about 90 years old and is still a H2H whiz as he boxed against Jersey Joe Walcott. Susan Silverman is a goddess that all men worship. In one book, he had to assault some bad guy's compound and recruited gang bangers as all those criminals were the best shots on the planet. Spenser chose a lever action for the fight - grandpa. You think a Korean War vet would at least get a Garand.

The books got stupider as time went on.

Yep. Read the first few, stop before you get to "A Catskill Eagle". Hard pass on the Sunny Randall stories. Some of the Jessie Stone books are OK, but pass on anything and everything that some other dude wrote after Parker died.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Yep. Read the first few, stop before you get to "A Catskill Eagle". Hard pass on the Sunny Randall stories. Some of the Jessie Stone books are OK, but pass on anything and everything that some other dude wrote after Parker died.

Sunny Randall is a prime example of why a man should not write a major female central character. Her personality did not ring true. Her mooning over her ex, her cliched Karate gay buddy - nothing wrong with being that - but a crappy character.

One thing in the Parker books that annoyed me was the love fest with organized crime figures. Of course, they were 'good' organized crime figure. Bah, again.

Back to revolvers.

[Stephanie B]

Sunny Randall is a prime example of why a man should not write a major female central character. Her personality did not ring true.

In that vein, don't read "Artemis" by Any Weir. It's Mark Whatley as a younger female super-McGyvering criminal on the Moon. I couldn't get past about page 70.

But yes, revolvers.

[Rock185]

In a World of plastic, I guess nostalgia is a part of my still enjoying revolvers. I carried revolvers for years, still have few, including one of the first ones I carried. I was in a situation one time in which my very well known plastic semi-auto pistol malfunctioned, when I really needed it to work. Sure wish I'd been carrying a revolver that day...

[MolonLabe416]

I wonder if Tom Selleck had anything to do with the 1911 and handling of it in the Jesse Stone tv films?

I have learned to just accept that authors are going to make mistakes where guns are concerned but some of them, like Spenser running around with four shots in his J frame while justifying it as ok, are pretty bad.

Selleck is a Gunsite graduate. He carries a GSP in the Jesse Stone movies.

[Chuck Whitlock]

What make us hanker for older technological revolvers and semi-autos? Are we reliving our youth? Is a yearning for simpler things? Is it the beauty found in wood and steel? I find myself coming to P-F and skimming through the Semi-Auto threads and then moving on to the Revolver Sub-forum, where I read just about everything. Revolvers are just so much more fascinating to me than semi-autos, unless it's something older, like a 1911, Hi-Power or Mil-Surp. However, most of the time, I carry a modern auto. Go figure!

Maybe yes to all of the above. After 15-ish years of toting Glocks professionally, I am now most likely to be toting a 1911 behind my hip in a leather IWB holster, two reloads on my left hip, and an Airweight Smith in a pocket holster. In my particular case, this mostly comes down to "fit" with my smallish hands. I will freely admit that the handgun that brings the biggest smile to my face is my Hi-Power....so far.

[Ed L]

I came of age with guns in the 1970s, when a revolver was the standard for police guns that I saw in police holsters. When I was a kid and even into my 20s, a revolver was what you saw most police carrying in real life and on most police shows. To me a revolver represents simpler times for life in general. When I lived in NY City decades ago with its strict licensing policies, people were overjoyed to get just a revolver and the difficulty in legally buying them made you appreciate it that much more. A few moths ago I came across a NYPD S&W model 10 on Gunbroker with a Holster and a leather cartridge loop holder for a "Buy-It-Now," for $500. So I did. The seller's address was listed as Staten Island, the borough in Ney York City that has the highest concentration of Cops and firemen, so I felt confident it was legit. I spoke to the seller on the phone and he was a NYPD cop with 15 years on the job who helped out at a gun store where a lot of retired cops came to sell their old duty guns (I need an icon or emotioncom with tears to put here.) I will include a picture of what Being in contact with Daryl B./Dagga_Boy will eventually turn you into a revolver collector.

If you like revolvers you owe it to yourself to buy Practical Handgun Training: A Practical Guide in the Important Aspects of Handgun Use and Handling by Richard P. Rosenthal:
https://www.amazon.com/Practical-Handgun-Training-Important-Handling/dp/0988882817/

It is a comprehensive but easy to read and engaging book book written by someone who served with the NYPD from the late 60s until I believe 1990 when he retired as a Lieutenant in the NYPD Firearms & Tactics Unit. While with the NYPD he worked as a detective and more importantly in the firearms and tactics section at a time when most cops carried revolvers. He served under the legendary NYPD trainer Frank Mcgee. If you buy this book you will want to buy a S&W Model 10, a gun which the author has much affection for. He points out that with good ammo and the gun in a machine rest, the Model 10 will shoot a 1.5" group at 25 yards. In the book he details some police and civilian shootings that he saw while on the NYPD, and the lessons that they held. Just the NYPD info on firearms and training is well worth the price of the book. This is a must buy book for anyone interested in revolvers or firearms training. After retiring from the NYPD the author became Chief of a small town police in MA. The book also covers automatics, shotguns, and red dot sights for handguns as well as legalities, tactics , and considerations for lethal force. This book is a gem that doesn't get the attention that it deserves. It is a must-read for serious firearm owners and trainers. It is a book that I would not hesitate to give a firearms newbie because it covers so much important information and is easily readable and understandable, yet comprehensive.

By the title of this book, one would expect the book to be a basic book on handguns and training. But it's much more and delves into areas not found in other books. It is not a basic book; it is a comprehensive book. The Author details NYPD training and selection of firearms, ammo equipment, and training in a way that I have not seen in other books. He covers things like legalities, avoidance, awareness and tactics. Everything, even things that I already knew, were presented in a way that was enjoyable to read and interesting.

I first stumbled upon the author on the S&W forum, where I read his many interesting posts, then somehow discovered that he had written a book about them. It was not something that he frequently mentioned.

Here is a picture of the ex-NYPD Model 10 that I bought, complete with the holster and cartridge holder. The holster has a belt loop on the other side for belt wear with the clip visible in the picture for right handed IWB wear. There is no manufacturers name on the holster.

102037

[sharps54]

Ed L ‘s post makes me want to break out my Model 10 4” HB instead of fiddling with my new 856 Toro wearing a 407K. If it wasn’t for the RDS I wouldn’t have picked the Taurus up at all.

[Stephanie B]

If you like revolvers you owe it to yourself to buy Practical Handgun Training: A Practical Guide in the Important Aspects of Handgun Use and Handling by Richard P. Rosenthal:
https://www.amazon.com/Practical-Handgun-Training-Important-Handling/dp/0988882817/

Ordered, and thanks for telling us about the book.

[HCM]

I came of age with guns in the 1970s, when a revolver was the standard for police guns that I saw in police holsters. When I was a kid and even into my 20s, a revolver was what you saw most police carrying in real life and on most police shows. To me a revolver represents simpler times for life in general. When I lived in NY City decades ago with its strict licensing policies, people were overjoyed to get just a revolver and the difficulty in legally buying them made you appreciate it that much more. A few moths ago I came across a NYPD S&W model 10 on Gunbroker with a Holster and a leather cartridge loop holder for a "Buy-It-Now," for $500. So I did. The seller's address was listed as Staten Island, the borough in Ney York City that has the highest concentration of Cops and firemen, so I felt confident it was legit. I spoke to the seller on the phone and he was a NYPD cop with 15 years on the job who helped out at a gun store where a lot of retired cops came to sell their old duty guns (I need an icon or emotioncom with tears to put here.) I will include a picture of what Being in contact with Daryl B./Dagga_Boy will eventually turn you into a revolver collector.

If you like revolvers you owe it to yourself to buy Practical Handgun Training: A Practical Guide in the Important Aspects of Handgun Use and Handling by Richard P. Rosenthal:
https://www.amazon.com/Practical-Handgun-Training-Important-Handling/dp/0988882817/

It is a comprehensive but easy to read and engaging book book written by someone who served with the NYPD from the late 60s until I believe 1990 when he retired as a Lieutenant in the NYPD Firearms & Tactics Unit. While with the NYPD he worked as a detective and more importantly in the firearms and tactics section at a time when most cops carried revolvers. He served under the legendary NYPD trainer Frank Mcgee. If you buy this book you will want to buy a S&W Model 10, a gun which the author has much affection for. He points out that with good ammo and the gun in a machine rest, the Model 10 will shoot a 1.5" group at 25 yards. In the book he details some police and civilian shootings that he saw while on the NYPD, and the lessons that they held. Just the NYPD info on firearms and training is well worth the price of the book. This is a must buy book for anyone interested in revolvers or firearms training. After retiring from the NYPD the author became Chief of a small town police in MA. The book also covers automatics, shotguns, and red dot sights for handguns as well as legalities, tactics , and considerations for lethal force. This book is a gem that doesn't get the attention that it deserves. It is a must-read for serious firearm owners and trainers. It is a book that I would not hesitate to give a firearms newbie because it covers so much important information and is easily readable and understandable, yet comprehensive.

By the title of this book, one would expect the book to be a basic book on handguns and training. But it's much more and delves into areas not found in other books. It is not a basic book; it is a comprehensive book. The Author details NYPD training and selection of firearms, ammo equipment, and training in a way that I have not seen in other books. He covers things like legalities, avoidance, awareness and tactics. Everything, even things that I already knew, were presented in a way that was enjoyable to read and interesting.

I first stumbled upon the author on the S&W forum, where I read his many interesting posts, then somehow discovered that he had written a book about them. It was not something that he frequently mentioned.

Here is a picture of the ex-NYPD Model 10 that I bought, complete with the holster and cartridge holder. The holster has a belt loop on the other side for belt wear with the clip visible in the picture for right handed IWB wear. There is no manufacturers name on the holster.

102037

Rosenthal eventually succumbed to the plastic menace and went to a Glock 19. In fact I recall one of his articles in the early 90s comparing the G19 to his prior Colt Detective Special. Never meet your heroes….

He knows his stuff though and his book is worthwhile.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

This reminds me of the older Law and Orders. For some reason, the detectives had to have a entry in force to some bad guy's apartment. So the NYPD guys all tactical with the usual outfits were there but Lenny was in front of them with just a vest and a SW or Colt Detective Special snubby. Do detectives lead the charge into entries - inquiring minds want to know. Olivia does that all the time as a captain.

[Tamara]

Do detectives lead the charge into entries - inquiring minds want to know.

That's the lulziest recurring trope in police procedurals.

[Ed L]

Ordered, and thanks for telling us about the book.

Definitely let us know what you think about the book and please tag me in the post to make sure that I see it.

[Ed L]

Rosenthal eventually succumbed to the plastic menace and went to a Glock 19. In fact I recall one of his articles in the early 90s comparing the G19 to his prior Colt Detective Special. Never meet your heroes….

He knows his stuff though and his book is worthwhile.

Amazingly he was writing for Combat Handguns Magazine under his own name. He also wrote a good book detailing his adventures going undercover with the Jewish Defense League where he interacted quite a bit with Meir Kahane. I went to see Kahane speak at my college (Hofstra out on Long Island) in the early 1980s. This would have been after his arrest which Rosenthal covered in his book on the JDL. Kahane was accompanied by a bunch of big guys in army jackets with a Jewish star and a fist emblazoned on the back who were concealing baseball bats. I know that they were baseball bats because I heard the distinct sound of a baseball ball hitting the floor.

I also noticed a less obvious protector. In the row ahead of me, sat a bespectacled, slightly chubby Jewish male with something in a black zipped case on his lap. In looking at the zipped case I saw the distinct outline of a collapsible stock. Given the size of the package and the ethnicity and culture of the JDL, I assumed it was an Uzi--either a full auto one or a semi auto one with the barrel cut down from the 16" that the carbine version came in over the counter. A friend who was sitting next to me blew it off and said it was probably a musical instrument. I asked my friend what musical instrument has a collapsible stock. He was in ROTC with me and had looked over the various gun magazines in my house, so he should have known. The event wasn't heavily attended, maybe 20 or 30 people from the college and 6 bodyguards for Kahane.

[Ed L]

The S&W Model 10 that I bought was pure nostalgia--especially since I grew up in NYC. Imagine a time when a cop would go out on the street and feel ready comfortable facing anything with a model 10. I would love to travel back to those simpler days (with my current knowledge of what the stock market would be doing in the future intact).

And here is another package that I picked up from the same seller on gunbroker: A 1964 Colt Detective Special with NYPD province along with three holsters and an ammo holder. I wasn't as excited about this package as I was about the Model 10, holster, and spare ammo in cartridge loops. But I could not let this gun remain unbought.

102058

[FNFAN]

This reminds me of the older Law and Orders. For some reason, the detectives had to have a entry in force to some bad guy's apartment. So the NYPD guys all tactical with the usual outfits were there but Lenny was in front of them with just a vest and a SW or Colt Detective Special snubby. Do detectives lead the charge into entries - inquiring minds want to know. Olivia does that all the time as a captain.

Settled science since 1995. In that great police procedural, the movie “SEVEN,” we learned not only that “SWAT GOES BEFORE DICKS!” but also what is likely to be in the box! 🤣

I think Mr. Rosenthal‘s book on the NYPD firearms program would be fascinating for nothing else than possible discussion of the transition from round nose ammo to jhp and from revolvers to semiautomatic pistols. I can only imagine the interplay involved with internal politics was intense!

[jandbj]

I came of age with guns in the 1970s, when a revolver was the standard for police guns that I saw in police holsters. When I was a kid and even into my 20s, a revolver was what you saw most police carrying in real life and on most police shows. To me a revolver represents simpler times for life in general. When I lived in NY City decades ago with its strict licensing policies, people were overjoyed to get just a revolver and the difficulty in legally buying them made you appreciate it that much more. A few moths ago I came across a NYPD S&W model 10 on Gunbroker with a Holster and a leather cartridge loop holder for a "Buy-It-Now," for $500. So I did. The seller's address was listed as Staten Island, the borough in Ney York City that has the highest concentration of Cops and firemen, so I felt confident it was legit. I spoke to the seller on the phone and he was a NYPD cop with 15 years on the job who helped out at a gun store where a lot of retired cops came to sell their old duty guns (I need an icon or emotioncom with tears to put here.) I will include a picture of what Being in contact with Daryl B./Dagga_Boy will eventually turn you into a revolver collector.

If you like revolvers you owe it to yourself to buy Practical Handgun Training: A Practical Guide in the Important Aspects of Handgun Use and Handling by Richard P. Rosenthal:
https://www.amazon.com/Practical-Handgun-Training-Important-Handling/dp/0988882817/

It is a comprehensive but easy to read and engaging book book written by someone who served with the NYPD from the late 60s until I believe 1990 when he retired as a Lieutenant in the NYPD Firearms & Tactics Unit. While with the NYPD he worked as a detective and more importantly in the firearms and tactics section at a time when most cops carried revolvers. He served under the legendary NYPD trainer Frank Mcgee. If you buy this book you will want to buy a S&W Model 10, a gun which the author has much affection for. He points out that with good ammo and the gun in a machine rest, the Model 10 will shoot a 1.5" group at 25 yards. In the book he details some police and civilian shootings that he saw while on the NYPD, and the lessons that they held. Just the NYPD info on firearms and training is well worth the price of the book. This is a must buy book for anyone interested in revolvers or firearms training. After retiring from the NYPD the author became Chief of a small town police in MA. The book also covers automatics, shotguns, and red dot sights for handguns as well as legalities, tactics , and considerations for lethal force. This book is a gem that doesn't get the attention that it deserves. It is a must-read for serious firearm owners and trainers. It is a book that I would not hesitate to give a firearms newbie because it covers so much important information and is easily readable and understandable, yet comprehensive.

By the title of this book, one would expect the book to be a basic book on handguns and training. But it's much more and delves into areas not found in other books. It is not a basic book; it is a comprehensive book. The Author details NYPD training and selection of firearms, ammo equipment, and training in a way that I have not seen in other books. He covers things like legalities, avoidance, awareness and tactics. Everything, even things that I already knew, were presented in a way that was enjoyable to read and interesting.

I first stumbled upon the author on the S&W forum, where I read his many interesting posts, then somehow discovered that he had written a book about them. It was not something that he frequently mentioned.

Here is a picture of the ex-NYPD Model 10 that I bought, complete with the holster and cartridge holder. The holster has a belt loop on the other side for belt wear with the clip visible in the picture for right handed IWB wear. There is no manufacturers name on the holster.

102037

Super excited to get the book!

My cousin received one of Frank McGee’s 1911’s as a West Point graduation gift from Frank’s son, Dave McGee. Old school cool with K frame rear sight. I’ll see if I can find a pic. I geeked out when I saw that gift unwrapped and heard the history.

[HCM]

Amazingly he was writing for Combat Handguns Magazine under his own name. He also wrote a good book detailing his adventures going undercover with the Jewish Defense League where he interacted quite a bit with Meir Kahane. I went to see Kahane speak at my college (Hofstra out on Long Island) in the early 1980s. This would have been after his arrest which Rosenthal covered in his book on the JDL. Kahane was accompanied by a bunch of big guys in army jackets with a Jewish star and a fist emblazoned on the back who were concealing baseball bats. I know that they were baseball bats because I heard the distinct sound of a baseball ball hitting the floor.

I also noticed a less obvious protector. In the row ahead of me, sat a bespectacled, slightly chubby Jewish male with something in a black zipped case on his lap. In looking at the zipped case I saw the distinct outline of a collapsible stock. Given the size of the package and the ethnicity and culture of the JDL, I assumed it was an Uzi--either a full auto one or a semi auto one with the barrel cut down from the 16" that the carbine version came in over the counter. A friend who was sitting next to me blew it off and said it was probably a musical instrument. I asked my friend what musical instrument has a collapsible stock. He was in ROTC with me and had looked over the various gun magazines in my house, so he should have known. The event wasn't heavily attended, maybe 20 or 30 people from the college and 6 bodyguards for Kahane.

Well, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean no one is out to get you.

The 1990 assassination of Kahane by El Sayyid Nosair, a Egyptian national, was one of the earliest examples of an Islamic Extremist terror attack on U.S. Soil. After the assassination Nosair was involved in a shoot out with a uniformed Postal Police Officer and arrested. Nosair was convicted on state charges and incarcerated at Attica state prison.

It was later learned that on the night of the assassination Nosair was accompanied by two co-conspirators, a Jordanian national and a Palestinian illegal alien, one of whom also had a gun but never fired. It was alleged that in addition to Kahane, the conspirators were supposed to target future Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon.

The Palestinian illegal co-conspirator was part of the Al Queda terror cell which later conducted the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.

Speaking of the 1993 WTC bombing cell, investigation later revealed the "Blind Sheikh" Omar Abdel Rahman, purported leader of the WTC cell, ordered surveillance of Attica state prison and discussed conducting a truck bombing and armed assault on the prison to free Nosair.

[BN]

If you like revolvers you owe it to yourself to buy Practical Handgun Training: A Practical Guide in the Important Aspects of Handgun Use and Handling by Richard P. Rosenthal:
https://www.amazon.com/Practical-Handgun-Training-Important-Handling/dp/0988882817/



I ordered it too. :)

[HCM]

This reminds me of the older Law and Orders. For some reason, the detectives had to have a entry in force to some bad guy's apartment. So the NYPD guys all tactical with the usual outfits were there but Lenny was in front of them with just a vest and a SW or Colt Detective Special snubby. Do detectives lead the charge into entries - inquiring minds want to know. Olivia does that all the time as a captain.

The two most realistic things on Law And order:

1) Lenny, a divorced, recovering alcoholic, has one remaining Vice -he plays the ponies, and when off duty he can be found at the off-track betting parlor;

2) the episode, where the suspect, a realtor, was believed to have stashed a murder weapon in a vacant apartment which was one of his listings. Lenny and his partner are waiting outside the apartment for other detectives to arrive with a search warrant, the suspect has a key and insists on entering the apartment. Lenny. Having just eaten lunch, keeps the suspect out by sticking his toothpick in the keyhole and breaking it off…

[revchuck38]

If you like revolvers you owe it to yourself to buy Practical Handgun Training: A Practical Guide in the Important Aspects of Handgun Use and Handling by Richard P. Rosenthal:
https://www.amazon.com/Practical-Handgun-Training-Important-Handling/dp/0988882817/


I ordered one too, threw in another HKS 36-A speedloader to get over $25 for free shipping. :cool:

[Zeke38]

Just ordered the R. Rosenthal book, earlier today. Thanks for the heads up!

[Rock185]

Glenn, No, the detectives do not lead the charge on warrant entries. We want the first officers making entry to be identifiable as police officers. I was a new detective sergeant one time, wasn't thinking about not being in uniform anymore, and started to "lead the charge" on an entry. Fortunately a uniformed sergeant pal of mine grabbed me before I made that mistake...

[Edster]

Practically, I have concerns about bad dogs. That could quickly become a contact-distance one-handed problem. I would expect a revolver to give me a better chance at more than one shot. I also would prefer to have a .357 sending something hollowpoint 140 grains or heavier.

Double action dry fire seems to help maintain both revolver and Glock skills for me. Glock shooting alone does not help my revolver skills.

But I don't carry a revolver unless I'm especially worried about animals. As pleasant as it is to shoot at the range, a 4" .357 is heavy and bulky. Carrying and hiding extra ammo is a challenge, too. Yeah, I can envision myself doing some 80s Texas sheriff cosplay. The reality of why I would carry a gun in the first place snaps me to reality before I give in to that.

[Jamie]

"If you like revolvers you owe it to yourself to buy Practical Handgun Training: A Practical Guide in the Important Aspects of Handgun Use and Handling by Richard P. Rosenthal:
https://www.amazon.com/Practical-Han...dp/0988882817/" Ed L

I ordered the book as well. Thank you.

I've carried a Glock 19 for about 30 years and most of that period I also carried a 640 Smith J frame in a pocket holster. I replaced my 1992 J Frame with an LCR (influenced by the Revolver sub-forum). I shoot this combo at least once a week.

I have been strongly influenced by this subforum, from both a practical and a nostalgic standpoint. P-F is my goto site and the Revolver subforum is the first thing I read.
I have been "enabled" ( :) ) and educated here. I purchased a .327 LCR, a vintage Model 10 4 " and a vintage Model 15 4" in great shape and for great below market prices.
Oh yeah, and a very nice Model 66 4" from a local friend.
Tony has been instrumental in making some great AIWB holsters for me.

As I am approaching 70, I have no fantasies about "running & gunning" and avoid what John Farnam refers to as the "3 s's".

I tend to shoot my Model 10 and/or Model 15 each week. There is something remarkable about the feeling the smooth mechanical working of those revolvers in my hands.

My first carry gun was a 686 (which I still own), so as I've never completely left revolvers I have certainly been "enabled" to revisit them.

While I like having the capacity and subjective shootability of my RDS Glocks, I absolutely love shooting my revolvers and wouldn't feel underguned carrying a couple of them on the streezts.

Thank you for the influence and information P-F and Thank you Moped for starting this thread.

[Rick R]

It’s all about the “Snick!”. That smooth metal on metal noise that revolvers and old school autos make when you manipulate them. Modern “Plastic People Poppers” make more of a “Thock!” due to the Polygodknowswhat sounding board of a grip. The Snick! evokes memories of smooth whisky and cigar smoke beside fireplace. The Thock ain’t natural.

I started out as a cop in the 80’s with a 1911, moved to revolvers by choice and then my second department issued them by policy. I know that I’m more efficient shooting a modern gun but the old stuff just more pleasing to carry.

[Trooper224]

It’s all about the “Snick!”. That smooth metal on metal noise that revolvers and old school autos make when you manipulate them. Modern “Plastic People Poppers” make more of a “Thock!” due to the Polygodknowswhat sounding board of a grip. The Snick! evokes memories of smooth whisky and cigar smoke beside fireplace. The Thock ain’t natural.

I started out as a cop in the 80’s with a 1911, moved to revolvers by choice and then my second department issued them by policy. I know that I’m more efficient shooting a modern gun but the old stuff just more pleasing to carry.

I will admit, there's something very visceral and manly about listening to brass clatter on concrete, while you're shoving a speedloader full of big fat freedom seeds into a revolver.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I do love a revolver. Loading them with a speed loader is enjoyable. I think my SW 632 is the ultimate revolver for me. However, it's analogous to this. I enjoyed driving stick for many years. It was fun and changing gears was cool - unless it was on a very steep hill in Portland, OR, sandwiched between two cars while your daughter laughed at you trying to get out of the spot. Or when I drove myself to the hospital with a broken wrist, broken ribs and a badly sprained accident (should I have waited for an ambulance - maybe).

Thus, the next car was automatic - which also helped my screwed up knees which were getting annoyed with shifting.

That being said - a shiny revolver is much cooler. I wouldn't feel helpless if semis were banned and I had to carry my revolver (and a J in the pocket).

[Rex G]

Practically, I have concerns about bad dogs. That could quickly become a contact-distance one-handed problem. I would expect a revolver to give me a better chance at more than one shot. I also would prefer to have a .357 sending something hollowpoint 140 grains or heavier.

Double action dry fire seems to help maintain both revolver and Glock skills for me. Glock shooting alone does not help my revolver skills.

But I don't carry a revolver unless I'm especially worried about animals. As pleasant as it is to shoot at the range, a 4" .357 is heavy and bulky. Carrying and hiding extra ammo is a challenge, too. Yeah, I can envision myself doing some 80s Texas sheriff cosplay. The reality of why I would carry a gun in the first place snaps me to reality before I give in to that.

How to carry spare ammo for a revolver, without the bulk? Easy. The Glock IS the speed-loader. ;) Texas*/NY Reload meets Austrian Reload. :) One or two Glock mags reload the Glock, if necessary, to stay in the fight. One or two Slow Strips can be carried, for administrative reloading of the cylinder, after the fight is over.

A 3” SP101 is amazingly slim, compared to a 4” K/L-Frame or GP100, yet the semi-square factory grip is long enough to reach the “heel bone” of my hand. I can get a three-finger grip, on an SP101, with my skinny fingers, so, an SP101 behaves much like a duty-sized revolver, for me. By getting HIGH on the grip, muzzle flip is largely mitigated.

I know what you mean about dogs. My small dogs are too valuable to be lunch for a loose/feral/random Pete Bull. My small dogs are man-portable, so, I will scoop them up, if at all possible, prior to an attack, or, stand my ground in the path of the attacking dog(s). The Nike Defense is not so useful when one’s attacker can run WAY faster. Plus, running away triggers or enhances the prey drive of the attacking dog. I have stood up to/stared-down dogs, while issuing commands, in cases where running would have probably resulted in my being mauled, but, someday, such friendly persuasion may fail. So, yes, being able to press a muzzle against an attacking dog is a thing.

If I have to shoot an attacking dog, I may then need that Austrian Reload, for the encounter that may result, with the Pete Bull’s misguided owner.

Why small dogs? Well, as I age, it is becoming more difficult to carry big dogs, which may become necessary due to illness or injury. Bella, my wonderful GSD, will be nine years old, this July. She is probably going to be my final large dog. Plus, I do not want a large dog to survive me, as it is so difficult for them to find new homes.

*Texas Rangers turned the tide of the Comanche War by adopting Paterson Colts, and then subsequent models of Colt’s Revolving Pistols, which they tended to carry in multiples.

[Rex G]

Regarding my use of the term “Slow Strips,” in my previous post: The Strip is actually a VERY fast and sure way to get those first two rounds into the cylinder, and a very efficient way to organize ammo, so, I find Slow Strips to be very valuable assets.

[High Cross]

This reminds me of the older Law and Orders. For some reason, the detectives had to have a entry in force to some bad guy's apartment. So the NYPD guys all tactical with the usual outfits were there but Lenny was in front of them with just a vest and a SW or Colt Detective Special snubby. Do detectives lead the charge into entries - inquiring minds want to know. Olivia does that all the time as a captain.

Detective Donald O'Sullivan at least did in the Larry Davis raid. He ran in ahead of ESU.

[High Cross]

The two most realistic things on Law And order:

1) Lenny, a divorced, recovering alcoholic, has one remaining Vice -he plays the ponies, and when off duty he can be found at the off-track betting parlor;

2) the episode, where the suspect, a realtor, was believed to have stashed a murder weapon in a vacant apartment which was one of his listings. Lenny and his partner are waiting outside the apartment for other detectives to arrive with a search warrant, the suspect has a key and insists on entering the apartment. Lenny. Having just eaten lunch, keeps the suspect out by sticking his toothpick in the keyhole and breaking it off…

We used to use the toothpick trick to get out of test taking in high school. The teacher couldnt let us in the classroom and had to call for the custodian.

[HCM]

Detective Donald O'Sullivan at least did in the Larry Davis raid. He ran in ahead of ESU.

A perfect example of why it’s a bad idea.

I wonder how many besides you, Ed L and myself know who Larry Davis is without google ?

[FrankB]

A perfect example of why it’s a bad idea.

I wonder how many besides you, Ed L and myself know who Larry Davis is without google ?

I never heard of him before today, but his acquittals were horrific!

https://archive.nytimes.com/cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/21/the-death-of-larry-davis/

[HCM]

I never heard of him before today, but his acquittals were horrific!

https://archive.nytimes.com/cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/21/the-death-of-larry-davis/

Let’s just say the way things were back in the day there is a not zero chance that his story about having a green light from the local cops to target drug dealers might have been true.

[Moped]

"If you like revolvers you owe it to yourself to buy Practical Handgun Training: A Practical Guide in the Important Aspects of Handgun Use and Handling by Richard P. Rosenthal:
https://www.amazon.com/Practical-Han...dp/0988882817/" Ed L

I ordered the book as well. Thank you.

I've carried a Glock 19 for about 30 years and most of that period I also carried a 640 Smith J frame in a pocket holster. I replaced my 1992 J Frame with an LCR (influenced by the Revolver sub-forum). I shoot this combo at least once a week.

I have been strongly influenced by this subforum, from both a practical and a nostalgic standpoint. P-F is my goto site and the Revolver subforum is the first thing I read.
I have been "enabled" ( :) ) and educated here. I purchased a .327 LCR, a vintage Model 10 4 " and a vintage Model 15 4" in great shape and for great below market prices.
Oh yeah, and a very nice Model 66 4" from a local friend.
Tony has been instrumental in making some great AIWB holsters for me.

As I am approaching 70, I have no fantasies about "running & gunning" and avoid what John Farnam refers to as the "3 s's".

I tend to shoot my Model 10 and/or Model 15 each week. There is something remarkable about the feeling the smooth mechanical working of those revolvers in my hands.

My first carry gun was a 686 (which I still own), so as I've never completely left revolvers I have certainly been "enabled" to revisit them.

While I like having the capacity and subjective shootability of my RDS Glocks, I absolutely love shooting my revolvers and wouldn't feel underguned carrying a couple of them on the streezts.

Thank you for the influence and information P-F and Thank you Moped for starting this thread.

You're more than welcome!!!

As I set typing this response, I have a S&W 442 on my hip. Later this evening, if I don't have anything else to do, I'll be searching gunbroker.com for revolvers that I might want to purchase or trade for, throughout the state of Tennessee. Specifically, I'm looking for a Model 10, 13, 15 or 19 or their equivalent stainless steel versions. Then I'll start looking for .32s and .44s.

I've come to love revolvers, even though, most of the time, when I'm out and about, I'm carrying a Glock 45 or a Ruger Max9. Revolvers seem to have more of a "soul" compared to most semi-autos. I still love the old classic steel 1911s, Hi-Powers, Walthers and Berettas. I even like the old holsters for them! :)

[45dotACP]

Are we at the point where Beretta 92s are older pistols?

Because Langdon Tactical has made the Beretta 92 perhaps my favorite gun of all time.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[High Cross]

A perfect example of why it’s a bad idea.

I wonder how many besides you, Ed L and myself know who Larry Davis is without google ?

For those who do not here is a documentary biased toward him. https://youtu.be/-hGPB-dYcSo I was a young kid in Queens when that all happened. I went to college a few blocks from where the second building he was holed up in was and I used to look at it down Lorillard Place in the Bronx. Pat Rogers told me that he believed it true that some of the MOS on that scene were intox as the family alleged. That crazy part of ESU Sgt Edward Coulter blindly firing his shotgun at davis which accidentally blew open his sisters door allowing his escape was also wild.

[High Cross]

Are we at the point where Beretta 92s are older pistols?

Because Langdon Tactical has made the Beretta 92 perhaps my favorite gun of all time.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

When I bought my first hand gun on my own just about 20 years ago, the prevailing advice was to get a Glock or a Sig. I ended up buying a Glock 19 and a NJSP trade in Ruger Security Six together. I regret neither but didn't end up shooting Beretta 92's until recently. I don't think I shoot any semi auto better except maybe a 1911. The 92 was talked down on, and literally everyone I knew in the military told me it was a piece of garbage so I never gave it a chance. If I knew what I knew now, I would have absolutely bought one then. What a great semi auto. My father is retiring to Pennsylvania and has not owned a handgun in 30 plus years. I was thinking of having him try this. So you have good taste.

[jtcarm]

It’s all about the “Snick!”. That smooth metal on metal noise that revolvers and old school autos make when you manipulate them. Modern “Plastic People Poppers” make more of a “Thock!” due to the Polygodknowswhat sounding board of a grip. The Snick! evokes memories of smooth whisky and cigar smoke beside fireplace. The Thock ain’t natural.

I started out as a cop in the 80’s with a 1911, moved to revolvers by choice and then my second department issued them by policy. I know that I’m more efficient shooting a modern gun but the old stuff just more pleasing to carry.

“Snick”? I like it. The Glock thock is hollow-sounding to me.

It’s like the difference between the “thwack” of a wood bat on a baseball vs the “clank” of aluminum.

“Thwack” is pleasing to the ear (unless you’re the pitcher), while the “clank” is irritating.

[Ed L]

Are we at the point where Beretta 92s are older pistols?

Because Langdon Tactical has made the Beretta 92 perhaps my favorite gun of all time.

I don't think we are the point where the Beretta 92 is an older pistol since it is still in service with the US Army and various police agencies.

Judging by the content of this thread and the fact that it is located in the Revolver category, I think we are talking about certain revolvers and models of revolver that have not been made for a while.

I am not sure what the cutoff date is. I am not sure that my S&W 686 CS-1 round butt revolvers with a 3" and a 4" barrel qualify. Even though they are from a special run from the US Customs Service in 1988, they might be too new for this thread.

[Totem Polar]

Not much more to add, save for: I bought the book too.

[Salamander]

Lots of good thoughts above on revolvers. I'm carrying one now, but for purposes of this thread I'll use photography as a metaphor.

Way back in high school I worked as a photojournalist, when that was still a good way to make decent money, way more than was possible at any of the standard young person retail jobs. I wore out a couple of Nikons and used to buy 35mm film in 100 foot rolls. It was a job, it paid well, the camera was a tool and film was at that time the only option.

I transitioned to digital when it became practical but never completely gave up on film. These days it's for fun not for money, I still shoot both though. Digital when peak efficiency and rapid post-production matters, which isn't all that often. Film when I'm not in a hurry, or just in that mood. Each has advantages and disadvantages.

Why both? Because film forces me to slow down, to pre-visualize the image, to think and not just point and shoot. Shooting analog makes me a better digital photographer. Oh, and the old 1969 Leica M4 body is an amazing piece of industrial art, fun to use in a hard to explain way. Not at all unlike certain old revolvers.

There's a group of millennials here in town who have re-discovered analog, kids who came up in the digital age and think analog is cool. I'm having a blast mentoring some of them, as with many things there's a lot of derp on the internet and they want to learn the right way to do this so badly, sort the good info from the bad.

[mtnbkr]

Lots of good thoughts above on revolvers. I'm carrying one now, but for purposes of this thread I'll use photography as a metaphor.

Way back in high school I worked as a photojournalist, when that was still a good way to make decent money, way more than was possible at any of the standard young person retail jobs. I wore out a couple of Nikons and used to buy 35mm film in 100 foot rolls. It was a job, it paid well, the camera was a tool and film was at that time the only option.

I transitioned to digital when it became practical but never completely gave up on film. These days it's for fun not for money, I still shoot both though. Digital when peak efficiency and rapid post-production matters, which isn't all that often. Film when I'm not in a hurry, or just in that mood. Each has advantages and disadvantages.

Why both? Because film forces me to slow down, to pre-visualize the image, to think and not just point and shoot. Shooting analog makes me a better digital photographer. Oh, and the old 1969 Leica M4 body is an amazing piece of industrial art, fun to use in a hard to explain way. Not at all unlike certain old revolvers.

There's a group of millennials here in town who have re-discovered analog, kids who came up in the digital age and think analog is cool. I'm having a blast mentoring some of them, as with many things there's a lot of derp on the internet and they want to learn the right way to do this so badly, sort the good info from the bad.

I grew up with film and only switched to digital around 2009ish. Before Covid, I got interested in pinhole photography and bought a 4x5 pinhole camera to shoot direct positive paper in. That led to a 4x5 press camera, then fully back into film on 35mm.

Digital is demonstrably better, but I *like* using the old film cameras and especially like the funky emulsions the smaller shops are coming out with these days. The easy perfection of digital frees me up to enjoy these odd films. Yeah, I can do the same in digital with PS or something, but I like not having to spend more time in front of the computer.

I currently have:
Canon FT with 50/1.4 and 28/3.5
Canon New F-1 with 50/1.8 and a fungus-ridden 28/2.0 (I'm getting ready to tear down and clean the 28)
Canon VT rangefinder with 50/1.8 and Voigtlander 35/2.5
Rollei A110 (110 camera)
Kodak Hawkeye Instamatic 110 (also 110)
Kodak Brownie Hawkeye for 120 film

The youngest camera in the bunch is the F-1, which dates back to the early 80s. The rest are from the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

It's a sickness, just like revolvers.

Chris

[Ed L]

On the topic of older revolvers, here is a picture of my S&W Model 14-2 Hanen Special. The best description I could find for this gun is written by Dagga Boy "Made in 1965 for the Dayton Gun Headquarters in Dayton, Ohio and is called a “Hanen Special”. These were a very unique special run of revolvers made by Smith & Wesson that combined the attributes of the Model 14 and Model 15 Revolvers together that were both variations of their parent K-38 revolvers. The Model 14’s were normally a 6” heavy barrel target revolver with a Patridge style target sight and are exceptional target revolvers. The Model 15 was a medium barrel version of the K-38 that used a Baughman style front sight and were usually a 2”-4” barreled gun. The Model 14 was more of a target gun and the Model 15 a Police or Combat gun. The “Hanen Special” is a unique hybrid. It uses the same frame as the normal model 14 and 15, but then uses a very heavy bull target style barrel that is actually thicker than a model 14 and a Baughman combat sight is mounted like a Model 15”. You get the benefit of a combat guns sights and size with the accuracy and balance of a target gun. These also used the narrower serrated standard trigger and hammer rather than the wide target models making them better when shot Double Action rather than cocked into single action."

102123

[Rick R]

Judging by the content of this thread and the fact that it is located in the Revolver category, I think we are talking about certain revolvers and models of revolver that have not been made for a while.

I am not sure what the cutoff date is. I am not sure that my S&W 686 CS-1 round butt revolvers with a 3" and a 4" barrel qualify. Even though they are from a special run from the US Customs Service in 1988, they might be too new for this thread.

My take is that any revolver is old technology, including my 3” WC GP100 in 10mm. I still have to swing open a cylinder, insert cartridges (albeit in a moonclip), close the cylinder, manually cycle the action to fire, and open the cylinder to eject it’s contents. Archaic and slow as molasses to anyone born in the 80’s.

The OP mentions “1911s, BHP and milsurp” autos, I’d say the Beretta 92’s status as a golden oldie might depend on your date of birth in relation to its date of adoption.

[Ed L]

A perfect example of why it’s a bad idea.

I wonder how many besides you, Ed L and myself know who Larry Davis is without google ?

Funny that Larry Davis should be mentioned: https://nypost.com/2023/03/03/nypd-sergeant-john-ohara-shot-by-loco-larry-retires/.

[Borderland]

The Beretta 92 wasn't in service when I was, so for me it's just another bottom feeder. Generational thing, no doubt. For me there has to be a major technological shift to make something truly old, like a vehicle with a clutch or a camera that uses film. The technological shift for handguns was probably when more pistols were being built than revolvers. I'm not sure when that was but I think it was prior to the 70's, given the number of 1911's built in WW2.

That would be an interesting topic to discuss.

[Salamander]

I grew up with film and only switched to digital around 2009ish. Before Covid, I got interested in pinhole photography and bought a 4x5 pinhole camera to shoot direct positive paper in. That led to a 4x5 press camera, then fully back into film on 35mm.

Digital is demonstrably better, but I *like* using the old film cameras and especially like the funky emulsions the smaller shops are coming out with these days. The easy perfection of digital frees me up to enjoy these odd films. Yeah, I can do the same in digital with PS or something, but I like not having to spend more time in front of the computer.

I currently have:
Canon FT with 50/1.4 and 28/3.5
Canon New F-1 with 50/1.8 and a fungus-ridden 28/2.0 (I'm getting ready to tear down and clean the 28)
Canon VT rangefinder with 50/1.8 and Voigtlander 35/2.5
Rollei A110 (110 camera)
Kodak Hawkeye Instamatic 110 (also 110)
Kodak Brownie Hawkeye for 120 film

The youngest camera in the bunch is the F-1, which dates back to the early 80s. The rest are from the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

It's a sickness, just like revolvers.

Chris

A few classics... photographed with my iPhone, because that's faster and more efficient.

102127

The cameras are not my original ones, I wore the finish down to brass on those before selling them. These are later acquisitions in much better condition.

[HCM]

Funny that Larry Davis should be mentioned: https://nypost.com/2023/03/03/nypd-sergeant-john-ohara-shot-by-loco-larry-retires/.


He was stabbed to death in 2008 by another inmate at an upstate prison, where he was serving time for the 1991 murder of a Bronx drug dealer — for which he was convicted in 1991.

[High Cross]

Funny that Larry Davis should be mentioned: https://nypost.com/2023/03/03/nypd-sergeant-john-ohara-shot-by-loco-larry-retires/.
I saw John O'Hara at McGinns in the Woodlawn section of the Bronx hanging out with NYPD Emerald Society St Patricks day 2009 or 10. He had a glass eye and was flying choppers in the Aviation Bureau.

[Archer1440]

For me, it is the simple honesty of shooting a good revolver well in DA that I find very satisfying.

Shooting a DA revolver just makes me shoot everything else better. For me it is a great training tool.

[Wondering Beard]

Stories.

I believe stories play a huge part in this.

All of us (whether in this forum or anywhere else) love a good story; be it in the making, in the past, or in fiction. Even in our consumption of news, we prefer a story format rather than be given straightforward data and facts.

Older guns come with stories galore. It doesn't matter if they're real (Elmer Keith and the 44 Magnum, anything involving JMB, the 1911 and world wars or the Texas Rangers, K frames and the various "stakeout squads" all over the country, the MR73 and GIGN etc...) or not (Miami Vice and the 10mm, Dirty Harry, John Wayne's Colt's one of my favorites: Bullit and the Colt Diamonback, etc...).

Having in your possession and being able to shoot a gun that has one or more stories (fictional or not) fires up the imagination and brings a smile to one's face.

By the way, the Glock's turn is coming. Some ten year's ago, my BIL had bought an old farmhouse in the south of Virginia as a second home where his kids and family could experience a non urban life. On one Thanksgiving, he decided we ought to have some fun plinking at stuff (in a more or less organized safe way) and I brought a couple of Glocks that needed some "breaking in (i.e. I hadn't shot them yet and range time is dear so let's run them in fun environment). The kids, then under ten years of age, all said "Wow, is that a real Glock?"
These kids are catching on to the stories.

[Moped]

My take is that any revolver is old technology, including my 3” WC GP100 in 10mm. I still have to swing open a cylinder, insert cartridges (albeit in a moonclip), close the cylinder, manually cycle the action to fire, and open the cylinder to eject it’s contents. Archaic and slow as molasses to anyone born in the 80’s.

The OP mentions “1911s, BHP and milsurp” autos, I’d say the Beretta 92’s status as a golden oldie might depend on your date of birth in relation to its date of adoption.

The last pistol I carried in the Army was a 1911, that was in 1991, during Desert Storm. Most Engineer units still hadn't moved to the M9 at that point. I remember the Battalion Commander from a active-duty unit out of Ft. Carson, visiting our BN TOC to coordinate his unit passing through ours (I was the night shift TOC NCOIC). I noticed that he also carried an old 1911 and the grip panel was attached with only one screw. Being as my unit was a reserve unit from East Tennessee and have the genteel manners of typical Southerners, I offered to fix his pistol for him, while he talked to our BN Commander. He gladly accepted our hospitality, and I had our Armorer fix him up in about 10 minutes. He was most greatly appreciative and a little chagrined that his own unit (active duty) lacked the resources to fix the issue.

Later, as a Marksmanship Training NCO, I was able to qualify with the M9, so I could train other soldiers to use it. It's a great pistol, much easier to shoot accurately than the 1911, but it didn't have the gravitas, the 1911a1 had. At least in my mind.


Stories.

I believe stories play a huge part in this.

All of us (whether in this forum or anywhere else) love a good story; be it in the making, in the past, or in fiction. Even in our consumption of news, we prefer a story format rather than be given straightforward data and facts.

Older guns come with stories galore. It doesn't matter if they're real (Elmer Keith and the 44 Magnum, anything involving JMB, the 1911 and world wars or the Texas Rangers, K frames and the various "stakeout squads" all over the country, the MR73 and GIGN etc...) or not (Miami Vice and the 10mm, Dirty Harry, John Wayne's Colt's one of my favorites: Bullit and the Colt Diamonback, etc...).

Having in your possession and being able to shoot a gun that has one or more stories (fictional or not) fires up the imagination and brings a smile to one's face.

By the way, the Glock's turn is coming. Some ten year's ago, my BIL had bought an old farmhouse in the south of Virginia as a second home where his kids and family could experience a non urban life. On one Thanksgiving, he decided we ought to have some fun plinking at stuff (in a more or less organized safe way) and I brought a couple of Glocks that needed some "breaking in (i.e. I hadn't shot them yet and range time is dear so let's run them in fun environment). The kids, then under ten years of age, all said "Wow, is that a real Glock?"
These kids are catching on to the stories.

I'm not ready to put the Glock out to pasture just yet. I have a Gen 2 17, that I bought new. My wife liked it so much, I gave it to her. Probably what kept it from being sold or traded away. It rests in her nightstand table, as I type this. And the newest firearm I bought a couple of months ago is a Glock 45. They aren't going anywhere, anytime soon. :)


Not much more to add, save for: I bought the book too.

Guess what... I did too. Due to be delivered on Thursday. :)

[Wondering Beard]

I'm not ready to put the Glock out to pasture just yet. I have a Gen 2 17, that I bought new. My wife liked it so much, I gave it to her. Probably what kept it from being sold or traded away. It rests in her nightstand table, as I type this. And the newest firearm I bought a couple of months ago is a Glock 45. They aren't going anywhere, anytime soon. :)


That's a story. A couple of generations down, one may hear from a young un:"Hey that's the same as grandma's gun!"

[Borderland]

My grandmother carried a 32 revolver in her purse. Texas, 1955 ish. I saw it and my dad said to not tell my mom. She was living with us and they didn't get along real well. No need to cause anymore trouble. My grandmother also dipped snuff. probably another thing that my mom disliked.

[Joe in PNG]

Speaking of old memories...
Way back when, in the late 1980's while I was in junior high, I got to have a bit of a shooting party on a vacant lot with a friend, his dad, and his uncle. His uncle happened to be a police officer from Tampa I believe, or one of the departments in the area that had just adopted the newfangled Glock 17.

So, that's how the Glock 17 became the first centerfire auto pistol I've ever shot.

[awp_101]

Not much more to add, save for: I bought the book too.

Ditto.

(Yes, I AM a provincial putz!)

[Trooper224]

I hope I live long enough to hear someone say, "Glocks? Yeah, old guys like those."

[Joe in PNG]

I hope I live long enough to hear someone say, "Glocks? Yeah, old guys like those."

Or the inevitable memes about Glocks being a more elegant weapon (3 World Wars!) in an era of phased plasma pistols.

[Half Moon]

Or the inevitable memes about Glocks being a more elegant weapon (3 World Wars!) in an era of phased plasma pistols.

Well sure, I understand the romance of brass and powder and bullet in a finely crafted polymer slugthrower but, in this day and age, you might as well be carrying great-great-great-granddaddy Ogg's slingshot. Nostalgia's gonna get you killed in the streets. Personally, I carry a piece in the 40 watt range because they don't make a 41...

[Corse]

Whatever, my internal combustion blaster will still work after some yahoo touches off an EMP grenade.

On topic, there must be something about them as I have bought 4 revolvers this year. All these plastic guns are played out.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Well, my last purchases were a revolver, a Buckmark and G44. The first two are old school. I regret now selling a couple of nice revolvers a few years ago.

[Rex G]

I hope I live long enough to hear someone say, "Glocks? Yeah, old guys like those."

I cannot cite any, at the moment, but I have been seeing internet posts, to that effect. (Not P-F, IIRC.) I think that one might have been in a discussion about the light-trigger plastic pistols, with fully-cocked strikers, as opposed to Glocks, which are only partially-cocked, requiring the shooter to finish cocking the striker, during the trigger pull. If I recall correctly, one of the comments was that only “old” shooters would prefer a pistol that did not have a fully-cocked striker.

Another discussion was about police duty pistols. Older officers, preferring to cling to their Glocks, were seen as quaint dinosaurs.

Not saying that I am a Glock guy/fan/boy. Glocks have their uses. A baby Glock, for example, can be a good tactical reload option when the number of Comanches exceeds the number of rounds in the cylinder of my Stone Age cowboy cannon.

[Trooper224]

Or the inevitable memes about Glocks being a more elegant weapon (3 World Wars!) in an era of phased plasma pistols.

I don't think "Glock" and "elegant" will ever be use in conjunction, ever.

[Borderland]

Well sure, I understand the romance of brass and powder and bullet in a finely crafted polymer slugthrower but, in this day and age, you might as well be carrying great-great-great-granddaddy Ogg's slingshot. Nostalgia's gonna get you killed in the streets. Personally, I carry a piece in the 40 watt range because they don't make a 41...



https://i.ibb.co/4NfNV8r/oddball-negative-waves.gif (https://ibb.co/rytywxr)

[Wondering Beard]

I don't think "Glock" and "elegant" will ever be use in conjunction, ever.

Andy Warhol is considered an artist.



https://mtltimes.ca/wp-content/uploads/elementor/thumbs/andy-warhol-campbells-soup-can-p6n2ahitn7by8xzm9ejbqveo3bossv8zcpihwi57pw.jpg?8dc f9f&8dcf9f

[Moped]

I don't think "Glock" and "elegant" will ever be use in conjunction, ever.

Yeah, I'm not getting that vibe either. The only polymer striker fired pistol I have ever considered "elegant" was the Remington R51 and that one was so bad, they bought them all back. I think it was the nail in Remington's coffin.

[Joe in PNG]

Yeah, I'm not getting that vibe either. The only polymer striker fired pistol I have ever considered "elegant" was the Remington R51 and that one was so bad, they bought them all back. I think it was the nail in Remington's coffin.

The Styer M series are rather striking for plastic strikers, but no one really uses them.

[Stephanie B]

My grandmother carried a 32 revolver in her purse. Texas, 1955 ish.

She got a .32 gun in her purse for fun.....

[Joe S]

I don't think "Glock" and "elegant" will ever be use in conjunction, ever.

I don't know that most would call an NFL lineman or heavyweight sumotori elegant in comparison to a professional ballerina, but that doesn't mean that there isn't grace and art involved.

[JAH 3rd]

She got a .32 gun in her purse for fun.....

And a razor in her shoe? Per Jim Croce

[Stephanie B]

Yeah, I'm not getting that vibe either. The only polymer striker fired pistol I have ever considered "elegant" was the Remington R51 and that one was so bad, they bought them all back. I think it was the nail in Remington's coffin.

I kind of regret that I didn't buy one and keep it NIB, My niece probably could have sold it for bank in a few decades.

Now, there's an idea: A museum display of The Crappiest Guns Ever Sold. Remington R51, Colt All-American 2000, C-O-P Derringer, AMT .380 Backup, Taurus Curve.

I can't recall it, but back in the first days of the Wondernines, there was one that was so bad, Gun Tests printed a photo of one of their testers throwing the gun at a target. That was the most reliable way to hit something.

[FNFAN]

I kind of regret that I didn't buy one and keep it NIB, My niece probably could have sold it for bank in a few decades.

Now, there's an idea: A museum display of The Crappiest Guns Ever Sold. Remington R51, Colt All-American 2000, C-O-P Derringer, AMT .380 Backup, Taurus Curve.

I can't recall it, but back in the first days of the Wondernines, there was one that was so bad, Gun Tests printed a photo of one of their testers throwing the gun at a target. That was the most reliable way to hit something.

Could have been the Smith & Wesson Sigma! A truly horrendous handgun. At one point you could buy a junker Sigma and the mothership would trade you a new gun just to get it off the street.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

A friend had the AMT 380 - horror. Another had a Sigma - couldn't get one round thru it.

[jtcarm]

I kind of regret that I didn't buy one and keep it NIB, My niece probably could have sold it for bank in a few decades.

Now, there's an idea: A museum display of The Crappiest Guns Ever Sold. Remington R51, Colt All-American 2000, C-O-P Derringer, AMT .380 Backup, Taurus Curve.

I can't recall it, but back in the first days of the Wondernines, there was one that was so bad, Gun Tests printed a photo of one of their testers throwing the gun at a target. That was the most reliable way to hit something.

The Star Model 28 was notoriously bad.

[Stephanie B]

The Star Model 28 was notoriously bad.

Then there's the Charter Arms "Boomer". With no front sight, it should be renamed "the Mugger's Delight".

[Tamara]

I hope I live long enough to hear someone say, "Glocks? Yeah, old guys like those."

Just a reminder that we’re only a handful of years away from the earliest imported Glocks aging into C&R eligibility.

[Joe in PNG]

I kind of regret that I didn't buy one and keep it NIB, My niece probably could have sold it for bank in a few decades.

Now, there's an idea: A museum display of The Crappiest Guns Ever Sold. Remington R51, Colt All-American 2000, C-O-P Derringer, AMT .380 Backup, Taurus Curve.

I can't recall it, but back in the first days of the Wondernines, there was one that was so bad, Gun Tests printed a photo of one of their testers throwing the gun at a target. That was the most reliable way to hit something.

Probably the Rogak P-18: a very, very poor copy of the Steyer GB. A copy where they forgot to actually put in the gas system.

[Tamara]

Could have been the Smith & Wesson Sigma! A truly horrendous handgun. At one point you could buy a junker Sigma and the mothership would trade you a new gun just to get it off the street.

That was only the subcompact single-stack blowback SW9F and SW380F. The actual full size Sigmas weren’t really all that bad, but you can’t tell the internet that.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

My friend's Sigma was a 40SW and wouldn't run a mag. I later heard that it was a mag problem that was well known and fixed. But he had sold it by then.

[Moped]

Just a reminder that we’re only a handful of years away from the earliest imported Glocks aging into C&R eligibility.

There's no need in remind us all that we are old...

[JonInWA]

Or....Get a P80 or one of the current Gen 1 G17 re-issues! Problem solved!

You can thank me later.....

Best, Jon

[Inkwell 41]

Probably the Rogak P-18: a very, very poor copy of the Steyer GB. A copy where they forgot to actually put in the gas system.

I remember reading about that in a couple magazines back in the day. I think the word “turd” was used in the description.

[45dotACP]

One thing about old revolvers...

Man they look good.


Also, this gun shoots exceptionally well. At the longest distances I can shoot (20 yards) I have produced a few hits per cylinder on targets the size of a dime.

Not a quarter. A dime. Intentionally.

This gun tho.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230308/7ef582b5d402c12b3bdbb8998175135f.jpg

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[Trooper224]

One thing about old revolvers...

Man they look good.


Also, this gun shoots exceptionally well. At the longest distances I can shoot (20 yards) I have produced a few hits per cylinder on targets the size of a dime.

Not a quarter. A dime. Intentionally.

This gun tho.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230308/7ef582b5d402c12b3bdbb8998175135f.jpg

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

I just sold one of those to help my oldest son with some financial concerns. It was a worthy cause, but I miss it.

[Trooper224]

There's no need in remind us all that we are old...

This morning, two Troopers came into the courthouse. I remember them both when they were so new they squeaked. Now, they're balding and going grey. I don't need further reminders.

[JAH 3rd]

Just for "fun", I put on my Sam Browne a few years ago. It was circa 70's/80's when purchased. Still had my Bianchi "the Judge" front-break holster attached to it. And my speedloader carrier with the loaders still in the carrier. A time capsule. It is amazing how leather shrinks over time but it could have been my waist expanded. Probably the latter. Anyway, good memories. Started out with a S&W nickel Model 19 4" barrel. When I changed departments, it was a Model 66 I carried.

My first handgun purchase was a S&W model 19, blue, with a 2.5" barrel. Wish I had it back.

[High Cross]

I cannot cite any, at the moment, but I have been seeing internet posts, to that effect. (Not P-F, IIRC.) I think that one might have been in a discussion about the light-trigger plastic pistols, with fully-cocked strikers, as opposed to Glocks, which are only partially-cocked, requiring the shooter to finish cocking the striker, during the trigger pull. If I recall correctly, one of the comments was that only “old” shooters would prefer a pistol that did not have a fully-cocked striker.

Another discussion was about police duty pistols. Older officers, preferring to cling to their Glocks, were seen as quaint dinosaurs.

Not saying that I am a Glock guy/fan/boy. Glocks have their uses. A baby Glock, for example, can be a good tactical reload option when the number of Comanches exceeds the number of rounds in the cylinder of my Stone Age cowboy cannon.

Still rocking those Ruger GP 100s?

[Rex G]

Still rocking those Ruger GP 100s?
Yes, though 2” S&W Model 64 and SP101 revovlers get more actual carry time than the GP100s and Speed Sixes

[Rex G]

Yes, though 2” S&W Model 64 and SP101 revovlers get more actual carry time than the GP100s and Speed Sixes

Well, on a good day, I can spell “revolvers.”

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I'm reading this thread too much. Last night, I had a dream that I was in a motel, swarming with zombies and all I had was my SW 632 3 inch 327 Fed Magnum, hammered, SS revolver. Surprising, it did the job with single head shots and I woke up not in a sweat from being killed.

[FrankB]

I'm reading this thread too much. Last night, I had a dream that I was in a motel, swarming with zombies and all I had was my SW 632 3 inch 327 Fed Magnum, hammered, SS revolver. Surprising, it did the job with single head shots and I woke up not in a sweat from being killed.

I started having many dreams that my revolver wouldn’t fire early last year. Your post made me realize it’s been a few months since that’s happened (in my dreams).

[jtcarm]

Speaking of old memories...
Way back when, in the late 1980's while I was in junior high, I got to have a bit of a shooting party on a vacant lot with a friend, his dad, and his uncle. His uncle happened to be a police officer from Tampa I believe, or one of the departments in the area that had just adopted the newfangled Glock 17.

So, that's how the Glock 17 became the first centerfire auto pistol I've ever shot.

Late ‘80s? Old memories?

What?

My first CF handgun shots were from Dad’s Remington Rand 1911-A1.

First handgun of any sort was Gramps’ first-issue Colt Woodsman.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Memories of old wheel guns:

1. First was a SW 442. Traded it for a 642 as l liked the finish better.

2. Next, SW 651 - way back when. I wanted a SW 63 in 22LR but the LGS couldn't find one and offered a 22 Mag. Nice gun but the 22 mag in a revolver wasn't for me. Ammo was expensive and the round gunked up the gun terribly. After 50 rounds, the cylinder froze from gunk and I had to use a can of Gunk Blaster to free it. Sold it but should have kept it as they appreciated.

That was in the mid 90's.

[Joe in PNG]

Late ‘80s? Old memories?

What?

My first CF handgun shots were from Dad’s Remington Rand 1911-A1.

First handgun of any sort was Gramps’ first-issue Colt Woodsman.

To be fair, it was the Fudd era. While a lot of folks owned guns, most tended to be of the classic sporting variety. If someone had a semi-auto rifle, it was probably a .22lr of some sort.
And the few people I knew back then who owned handguns, almost all of them had revolvers. The first centerfire handgun I shot was my Grandpop's .32 H&R.

[Stephanie B]

I'm reading this thread too much. Last night, I had a dream that I was in a motel, swarming with zombies and all I had was my SW 632 3 inch 327 Fed Magnum, hammered, SS revolver. Surprising, it did the job with single head shots and I woke up not in a sweat from being killed.

Good, because as the current lore seems to have it, only shots that bust the brainpan kill zombies. And a .327 Federal Magnum should do quite nicely.

[Moped]

Well it came today! 🙂

102296

The first handgun I ever fired was my dad’s H&R 929 9 shot .22LR. Actually a pretty good shooting revolver.

[revchuck38]

^^^^Mine did too. It'll be good to be reading off paper rather than my computer screen.

[Jamie]

My copy arrived Wednesday! I'll be starting it tonight. It'll be a good change from reading on my Kindle. A "real" book just feels right. :)

[Zeke38]

^^^^^^

Looking for my book to show up soon.

[Dave T]

I have always preferred blue steel revolvers to stainless ones. As they are used they show character, more so with out the infernal S&W Lock. As for pistols my preference was always pre-MKIV Series 70 Government Models, in 45 ACP of course. I've owned and carried Glocks and as everyone knows the (expletive deleted) things work - all the time. But they have no soul. Excellent tools but so is a claw hammer. Both are things that can be replaced almost anywhere and anytime.

Of course you must take into account I'm a genuine Boomer, born in 1948. Heck, I don't even own a smart phone. (smile)

Dave

[JAH 3rd]

When buying a S&W revolver, 19 or 27 back in the day, I preferred a blue finish. Then a pretty set of factory full-size grips. Add to that a colorful casehardening of the trigger and hammer. Made for a pretty revolver.

[farscott]

I kind of regret that I didn't buy one and keep it NIB, My niece probably could have sold it for bank in a few decades.

Now, there's an idea: A museum display of The Crappiest Guns Ever Sold. Remington R51, Colt All-American 2000, C-O-P Derringer, AMT .380 Backup, Taurus Curve.

I can't recall it, but back in the first days of the Wondernines, there was one that was so bad, Gun Tests printed a photo of one of their testers throwing the gun at a target. That was the most reliable way to hit something.

The Rogak P18, which was an unauthorized clone of the Steyr GB (and killed the Steyr offering), has to be on the list of "The Crappiest Guns Ever Sold". https://www.forgottenweapons.com/rogak-p18-a-cautionary-tale-of-manufacturing/

[Zeke38]

Practical Handgun Training, showed up in the mail today. It's worth a read! Some good info, I didn't know and some that I have forgotten. Big proponent of Tyler Ts. Tyler Ts answered a lot of problems, cop wages were horrible and money was always tight. The handgun grip makers were into target slabs of wood and could care less about concealment. My first Tyler for a K frame was $5.00 and I appreciated the advantage it gave to a Model 10 Square butt. Circa 1972,

[Moped]

I had a Colt Agent, with original wood grips, that I put a Tyler T grip on. They made a vast improvement over just the original grips. I wish they weren't so hard to find or purchase. Guess I have become to enamored with purchasing online using a CC or pay app. Tyler does it the old-fashioned way. Must fill out the order form and mail it in with a money order or personal check.

But I do like the grips that came on my 442. S&W has done a good job with those. But if I wanted a wood grip on any revolver, they would sport a Tyler T grip as well.

BTW, here is the Tyler T Grip website. http://www.t-grips.com/

[Stephanie B]

The Rogak P18, which was an unauthorized clone of the Steyr GB (and killed the Steyr offering), has to be on the list of "The Crappiest Guns Ever Sold". https://www.forgottenweapons.com/rogak-p18-a-cautionary-tale-of-manufacturing/

I think that may have been it.

[mikey357]

I've had the Rosenthal book for awhile now and am about halfway thru. It's worth the Price just for his suggested method of "De-Cocking" a Revolver that's had the Hammer thumbed back for a Single action shot. I'm probably gonna' buy a few more of this book to give as gifts...