Good DAO Options in 2023?

[Wooosh]

I know that DAO pistols have never been all that popular, but I never been able to shoot DA/SA all that well under stress. In 2023, what's the best concealable DAO option currently available (excluding revolvers)?

[David S.]

Please define, or give examples of, what you mean by “concealable.”

[Noah]

Yeah, you'll need to clarify what size range you want. A PX4CC converted to DAO? Or smaller?

[Wooosh]

Please define, or give examples of, what you mean by “concealable.”

Yeah, you'll need to clarify what size range you want. A PX4CC converted to DAO? Or smaller?
Oh, sorry about that. I was thinking something like a P2000 (V2?) but I can try something smaller.

[fatdog]

my answer would be p2000 or usp compact lem, then P250 compact since you can find them, then P229 or P239 if you can find one, either in DAK being a distant third, I am unaware of anything in current production besides the HK's

[JonInWA]

I have no problems in concealing my HK P30L V1.5 LEM.

Best, Jon

[JCN]

but I never been able to shoot DA/SA all that well under stress.

Can you clarify a little about what "under stress" means? Like when you were on patrol as a LEO and found that the SA trigger was too light and you accidentally had an unintentional discharge and hurt someone?

Or like when you're on a square range training and find the timing difficult to get used to?

The answer to the question might be something different in either situation.

I think in general most of the people on PF wouldn't advocate a hardware solution for a software issue.

Please don't take it as criticism, I'm looking more for clarification out of curiosity!

[Rex G]

I found my P229R DAK duty pistol to be very nicely “concealable.” Its trigger was/is very similar, in operation, to that of an S&W K-Frame revolver. The thing about DAK is to avoid over-thinking it; just let the trigger return to its farthest forward position, to enable it to function as long-stroke DA. The optional shorter reset position results in a heavier, but shorter trigger pull, so, I just ignored it.

[Doc_Glock]

I like HK for plastic if you can find a DAO trigger kit.

But even better, Beretta 92DAO Centurion. A little heavier, but it's a fabulous DAO pistol.

[Wooosh]

Can you clarify a little about what "under stress" means? Like when you were on patrol as a LEO and found that the SA trigger was too light and you accidentally had an unintentional discharge and hurt someone?

Or like when you're on a square range training and find the timing difficult to get used to?

The answer to the question might be something different in either situation.

I think in general most of the people on PF wouldn't advocate a hardware solution for a software issue.

Please don't take it as criticism, I'm looking more for clarification out of curiosity!
When talking about under stress, I was referring to doing drills with a timer. The transition from a DA trigger to a SA trigger always gets me, especially with the different reset points. In contrast, I shoot SA striker pistols and DA revolvers fairly consistently.

[PNWTO]

The TDA version of Dot Torture (https://pistol-training.com/shooting-drills/dot-torture/) really cleans up the performance and understanding of the system.

[stomridertx]

It would be useful as well to get your definition of DAO, as I hear new shooters at the range I work at refer to striker fired pistols as DAO. Your join date says you're new here so we shouldn't assume you are only referring to a hammer fired gun with a DAO pull. That said, if you do mean hammer fired DAO, are you totally adverse to going to a striker fired pistol? I feel like if you dislike DA/SA then striker fired is the way to go.

[Tarrrnation!]

The Kahr K9 gets my vote for a nice double action only compact, concealable pistol. Very smooth consistent double action trigger.

[Doc_Glock]

I forgot the Beretta PX4 series I believe can be set up with a DAO trigger in which case I would lean towards that one as a first choice for carry if it were properly vetted.

[Navin Johnson]

The Kahr K9 gets my vote for a nice double action only compact, concealable pistol. Very smooth consistent double action trigger.

Kahr is a striker

Although very smooth and similar to TDA only

[Sig_Fiend]

I would say the P2000, P2000SK, P30SK, and USP Compact (all in LEM (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?9457-Why-I-like-the-LEM-as-a-quot-street-trigger-quot), usually in V1, V2, or V7 variants) are probably the most realistic current production compact guns with some form of a DAO trigger. LEM is not a true DAO but, it sort of mimics it. It's a love it or hate it trigger system for a lot of people, though, so I'd see if you can try one out locally first. One thing to watch out for, though, is a few of the models like the P2K and USP Compact did briefly come in a true DAO variant. I might be off but, I believe this was around the end of the 90's to the early 2000's, possibly mid 2000's. That true DAO is not the one you want as it's a heavier trigger that isn't great. If you buy something recent production or new, you'll be fine. I'd just pay more attention if you find something used, much older production, and getting close to ~20y/o. If browsing used guns, take note of the date codes (https://hk-usa.com/faqs/how-can-i-tell-what-year-my-usp-was-made/) on the frame or slide to figure out production year.

The Px4 series (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?16519-The-PX4-Compact-might-be-my-DA-SA-Glock-19) are also decent. I believe the Type-D (DAO) variant (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?35121-PX4-D-vs-92-D-Internals) only came in the Full Size. However, the Compact or Compact Carry can be converted to DAO by removing several components, similar to how you would on a 90-series. Doing this conversion may be more work than you want but, I bring it up since LTT offers tuned Px4's (https://langdontactical.com/products/guns/px4-series/) as well as red dot mounting options. If you don't mind the full size, you can occasionally find the Type-D model (visible by no safety levers on the slide) on Gunbroker. They're a bit tough to find but, I usually see a few listed there every other month.

If you don't mind an out of production option that's still plentiful, the P250 (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?45741-If-a-person-wanted-to-try-a-P250-in-2021) still has a lot of attractive qualities. Obviously the numerous sizes and frame options are one of the nice features. The trigger might be heavier than some like if they're used to a light SA or striker pull of ~5.5# or less. Anyone with any real time on a revolver shouldn't have an issue with them though. One of the nice things about the P250 series is, despite being out of production for a few years, a number of components are shared with the P320 series, including magazines. So they should remain viable for many, many more years. Some parts supply is drying up a bit for them though, so if going with one of these, I'd stock up on some spare parts to be safe. I really regret not snatching up a dozen or more of these when Cabela's had a blowout on them years ago for something like $200-250 a piece. ;)

If you don't mind the weight and prefer a metal-framed DAO, beyond the SIG DAK's others have mentioned, just about any Beretta 90-series is always an option. For carry, I'd probably opt for something like a 92 Compact. For DAO, there is the 92D (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?17768-Beretta-92D) / 96D (and Centurion versions (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?40595-I-want-a-D-(DAO)-Beretta-92-Centurion-How-do-I-make-it-happen)), 92D-XR (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?44855-Beretta-92D-w-92X-Grip) (rare), and possibly some rare models I'm forgetting. The D models are getting harder and harder to find but, nearly any 90-series can easily be converted to DAO (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?29146-Blasphemy-alert-can-I-convert-my-beretta-92g-sd-to-dao) by removal of a few components. If it was me and I was going the 92 route, I'd probably get something like a 92 Compact non-rail frame, convert it to DAO, add Langdon's TJIB (https://langdontactical.com/trigger-job-in-a-bag-92-96-m9-series/), and call it a day. In a more perfect world, for me it might be a 92D Compact Type M (https://www.gunsamerica.com/922863637/Beretta-92D-Compact-Type-M-Melonite.htm) but, I wouldn't have the heart to carry a $2-3K rare gun like that. ;)

Bottom line, most of your options will probably be Beretta, HK, or SIG if looking for current or recent production options. Others exist but, you don't hear about them as much on PF, or else you do but they're long since out of production (e.g. S&W third gen autos or older).

[Bucky]

I'd probably get something like a 92 Compact non-rail frame, convert it to DAO, add Langdon's TJIB (https://langdontactical.com/trigger-job-in-a-bag-92-96-m9-series/), and call it a day. In a more perfect world, for me it might be a 92D Compact Type M (https://www.gunsamerica.com/922863637/Beretta-92D-Compact-Type-M-Melonite.htm) but, I wouldn't have the heart to carry a $2-3K rare gun like that. ;)


Have you ever owned a 92 Compact Type M? I had both an M and standard compact at the same time. They felt no different and carried no different in my experience. Even took out the calipers and the grip dimensions could be measured in the thousandths.

Outside of uniqueness or nostalgia, I see no reason to do a Type M over standard compact.

[Sig_Fiend]

Have you ever owned a 92 Compact Type M? I had both an M and standard compact at the same time. They felt no different and carried no different in my experience. Even took out the calipers and the grip dimensions could be measured in the thousandths.

Outside of uniqueness or nostalgia, I see no reason to do a Type M over standard compact.

I haven't, and I wouldn't expect that it's any significant difference in size like you said, which is why I said that sort of jokingly. I just like oddball and uncommon stuff. ;)

I'm sure it's just like the Beretta 85 vs the 84. 85 being single stack with thick grips such that there's no appreciable size difference and only a capacity deficiency.

[BN]

Or like when you're on a square range training and find the timing difficult to get used to?

I have a PX4CC and the way the gun times when I fire continues to defeat me. I can fire the first DA shot and when the gun returns from recoil, the front sight is way low. With almost every other pistol, the front sight returns with the sights aligned toward the target. I have a LTT Elite 92 and several other SA/DA guns that I can shoot successfully. I have too many other guns that I can shoot well to spend time with this one.

I converted it to DA by removing some parts, but I didn't spend much time with it to see if I would be able to shoot it competently. I switched it back to SA/DA just so it would be normal if anybody else shot it.

[Joe in PNG]

I'd probably go looking for a 92D of some sort, preferably a Centurion.

It would be great if Beretta or LTT offered an optics cut, slick slide 92DAO option with all the modern goodies.

[1slow]

Look at GJM's and Barryl Bolke's writings on the HK USP LEM, particularly the Match Hybrid / LEM.

My favorite is the Match Hybrid / LEM in a full size USP. The P30/ P2000 series with LEM are good but not a nice as the USP Match Hybrid / LEM.

YMMV

[DDTSGM]

When talking about under stress, I was referring to doing drills with a timer. The transition from a DA trigger to a SA trigger always gets me, especially with the different reset points. In contrast, I shoot SA striker pistols and DA revolvers fairly consistently.

Do you currently own a DA/SA pistol?

Back in the day, literally thousands of LEO's transitioned from their DA revolvers to DA/SA pistols. If they can do it you ought to be able to, if that it your desire.

First you need to remember that the DA shot is the money shot. The is, ideally the first DA shot stops the gunfight, so don't neglect it. You want to make sure you have a smooth steady press through with no staging or hesitation once you've decided to shoot.

Obviously, the DA to SA transition for the second shot gives the majority of folks the most trouble. We used to intro the transition via dryfire. Dependent on pistol type, you dryfire the DA stroke, pin the trigger to the rear, and either thumb cock the hammer or cycle the slide. We taught maintaining contact with the trigger so you would release the trigger forward only until the action reset - usually an audible or tactile click - then press until the dry shot breaks. Then repeat.

After sufficient dryfire we would start with ball and dummy drills. Load the mag alternating dummy, live, dummy, live, ending with a live round on top. Load the pistol and decock. We conducted this drill from the holster. On the buzzer draw and fire the DA shot, reset the trigger and press the SA shot. Check for movement. We then had the shooter, tap, rack/roll, leave finger off trigger, decock and recover to the holster. Repeat. Our goal at the beginning was under 2.0 for the first shot. Keep in mind these were actually the first shots fired by many of the student officers.

Next work three shots from the holster, the first two being live, the third the dummy. Again, eval movement on the third (dry) shot. Repeat as before.

Then you want to work reaquiring the trigger and firing the pistol cocked in SA as if you had fired your initial rounds, assessed and determined more rounds were needed.

Above all, work that DA stroke, as I said it's the money shot.


You will probably find that as you become more practiced you are actually coming off the trigger a little on your resets, I know I do, but I still feel the best way to intro the average shooter is by initially teaching the 'pin, reset' method. I know othersw disagree, that is JMO.

ETA: I like the SIG DAK just fine, but for my money the absolute best DAO pistol I've ever shot was my wife's agency issue Beretta 92. She should have bought it when she left them to marry me, although I'm a better catch than any pistol.

[HCM]

When talking about under stress, I was referring to doing drills with a timer. The transition from a DA trigger to a SA trigger always gets me, especially with the different reset points. In contrast, I shoot SA striker pistols and DA revolvers fairly consistently.

Have you had any training on DA/SA shooting?

The hype regarding the DA to SA transition is just that. Hype.

1) Stop thinking of it as “two trigger pulls.” The trigger breaks in the same place whether DA or SA. As such it’s one trigger pull.

2) Are you riding / trying to shoot to trigger reset rather than getting off the trigger and prepping the trigger ? Trigger prep is a more efficient and effective way to run a trigger, whether by letting it all the way out while maintaining contact or doing the “Flip and press” where the finger comes off the trigger and flies back on to prep the next shot.

A good place to start is Ernest Langdon’s “fear not the double action shot” videos:


https://youtu.be/FsoX26OhDCY


https://youtu.be/GZplH6zreQI


https://youtu.be/nod5qLlSGUM

[JAH 3rd]

Good information contained within this thread. I look shooting a firearm, in this case a pistol, as a set of sub-systems that must work together for the desired outcome.

Caliber selection is important. Granny probably wouldn't shoot a 44 magnum well. Shoot a caliber that works well for the shooter. Sights are important. When I bought my Glock 21, I replaced the stock sights with AmeriGlo Hackathorn sights. Black rear sight and a tritium surrounded by the orange doughnut front sight. Greatly aids in sight acquisition. Also, a pistol with a grip that suits the hands of the shooter. Not too large, or small, but just right. Grip texture also aids anchoring the pistol in the hand.

Now to trigger pull. For carry I prefer a hammer fired pistol. So far all these pistols are traditional DA/SA systems. But I look out for DAO pistols as well as LEM actions. I too am trying to settle on a DAO platform. A friend of mine has a Beretta 92 that he converted to DOA and it shoots great. At the moment, I am leaning towards a LEM P2000 as I already have the DA/SA version of the P2000. Not in any hurry, but still looking.

Once again, thanks for all the opinions/observations in this thread!!

[Doc_Glock]

I agree the two trigger press thing is really not a thing and is easily trained around. But I also think it is an unnecessary complication. In addition it introduces decocking which is also a training issue, but is also another complication.

For sure DA/SA allows one to split faster.

Fact is that with how little I train currently my splits are around .25-.30
on any platform. Which incidentally seems to
be my assessment speed. And is also a speed i
can easily run a DAO gun at.

If I want to split faster I’ll use a Glock and train harder, but for day to day or a pistol I could hand to a beginner with no worries, the DAO Beretta is hard to beat.

I have dumped all the DA/SA platforms except a couple B92 “collectors”

[Dog Guy]

I would say the P2000, P2000SK, P30SK, and USP Compact (all in LEM (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?9457-Why-I-like-the-LEM-as-a-quot-street-trigger-quot), usually in V1, V2, or V7 variants) are probably the most realistic current production compact guns with some form of a DAO trigger. LEM is not a true DAO but, it sort of mimics it. It's a love it or hate it trigger system for a lot of people, though, so I'd see if you can try one out locally first. One thing to watch out for, though, is a few of the models like the P2K and USP Compact did briefly come in a true DAO variant. I might be off but, I believe this was around the end of the 90's to the early 2000's, possibly mid 2000's. That true DAO is not the one you want as it's a heavier trigger that isn't great. If you buy something recent production or new, you'll be fine. I'd just pay more attention if you find something used, much older production, and getting close to ~20y/o. If browsing used guns, take note of the date codes (https://hk-usa.com/faqs/how-can-i-tell-what-year-my-usp-was-made/) on the frame or slide to figure out production year.

The Px4 series (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?16519-The-PX4-Compact-might-be-my-DA-SA-Glock-19) are also decent. I believe the Type-D (DAO) variant (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?35121-PX4-D-vs-92-D-Internals) only came in the Full Size. However, the Compact or Compact Carry can be converted to DAO by removing several components, similar to how you would on a 90-series. Doing this conversion may be more work than you want but, I bring it up since LTT offers tuned Px4's (https://langdontactical.com/products/guns/px4-series/) as well as red dot mounting options. If you don't mind the full size, you can occasionally find the Type-D model (visible by no safety levers on the slide) on Gunbroker. They're a bit tough to find but, I usually see a few listed there every other month.

If you don't mind an out of production option that's still plentiful, the P250 (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?45741-If-a-person-wanted-to-try-a-P250-in-2021) still has a lot of attractive qualities. Obviously the numerous sizes and frame options are one of the nice features. The trigger might be heavier than some like if they're used to a light SA or striker pull of ~5.5# or less. Anyone with any real time on a revolver shouldn't have an issue with them though. One of the nice things about the P250 series is, despite being out of production for a few years, a number of components are shared with the P320 series, including magazines. So they should remain viable for many, many more years. Some parts supply is drying up a bit for them though, so if going with one of these, I'd stock up on some spare parts to be safe. I really regret not snatching up a dozen or more of these when Cabela's had a blowout on them years ago for something like $200-250 a piece. ;)

If you don't mind the weight and prefer a metal-framed DAO, beyond the SIG DAK's others have mentioned, just about any Beretta 90-series is always an option. For carry, I'd probably opt for something like a 92 Compact. For DAO, there is the 92D (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?17768-Beretta-92D) / 96D (and Centurion versions (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?40595-I-want-a-D-(DAO)-Beretta-92-Centurion-How-do-I-make-it-happen)), 92D-XR (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?44855-Beretta-92D-w-92X-Grip) (rare), and possibly some rare models I'm forgetting. The D models are getting harder and harder to find but, nearly any 90-series can easily be converted to DAO (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?29146-Blasphemy-alert-can-I-convert-my-beretta-92g-sd-to-dao) by removal of a few components. If it was me and I was going the 92 route, I'd probably get something like a 92 Compact non-rail frame, convert it to DAO, add Langdon's TJIB (https://langdontactical.com/trigger-job-in-a-bag-92-96-m9-series/), and call it a day. In a more perfect world, for me it might be a 92D Compact Type M (https://www.gunsamerica.com/922863637/Beretta-92D-Compact-Type-M-Melonite.htm) but, I wouldn't have the heart to carry a $2-3K rare gun like that. ;)

Bottom line, most of your options will probably be Beretta, HK, or SIG if looking for current or recent production options. Others exist but, you don't hear about them as much on PF, or else you do but they're long since out of production (e.g. S&W third gen autos or older).


While I like shooting my P250, don't go that route if you will need/want to mount a red dot. I have not found a viable option to do so.

[HCM]

While I like shooting my P250, don't go that route if you will need/want to mount a red dot. I have not found a viable option to do so.

Yes, the P250 is an evolutionary dead end.

[HCM]

I agree the two trigger press thing is really not a thing and is easily trained around. But I also think it is an unnecessary complication. In addition it introduces decocking which is also a training issue, but is also another complication.

For sure DA/SA allows one to split faster.

Fact is that with how little I train currently my splits are around .25-.30
on any platform. Which incidentally seems to
be my assessment speed. And is also a speed i
can easily run a DAO gun at.

If I want to split faster I’ll use a Glock and train harder, but for day to day or a pistol I could hand to a beginner with no worries, the DAO Beretta is hard to beat.

I have dumped all the DA/SA platforms except a couple B92 “collectors”

I agree training to decock at a level of automaticity is a bigger hurdle than the trigger thing.

[TheNewbie]

One thing that helps one to remember to decock, is to hit the lever every time before you reholster/come off target. Regardless of whether you have fired or not.

[Wooosh]

Do you currently own a DA/SA pistol?

Back in the day, literally thousands of LEO's transitioned from their DA revolvers to DA/SA pistols. If they can do it you ought to be able to, if that it your desire.


Have you had any training on DA/SA shooting?

I agree with you that with enough training, I will become sufficient with a DA/SA, but lately I have been busy (and the price of ammo isn't helping either). So, I was thinking of getting a DAO pistol as a stop gap in the meantime.

[CraigS]

Way back when we started shooting and had pretty much settled on Beretta 92s the DA shot was difficult. Then I watched the Langdon series posted above. Then I went to the range and forced myself to shoot 2 boxes of ammo all in DA. That made a tremendous difference. In the last 5-6 years Langdon has really gotten to be the leader in B92s and having hammer springs available in ranges from 10# to 16# plus his TJIBs, the DA shot is almost nothing to worry about. Our idpa 92s w/10 or 11# springs and NP3 TJIBs all have 5# or less DA pulls. And they are super smooth. A 13# spring in our defense guns gets the DA weight up to 5.5# but still super smooth. I just shot a match last Saturday and the 3rd or 4th stage had first shot a 6 inch steel at about 12yds. I had to concentrate to make that hit. But afterwards I realized that for the other 5 stages, I didn't even think about the DA first shot.

[MistWolf]

Kahr is a striker

Although very smooth and similar to TDA only

Strikers can be DAO, DA/SA, SAO or partially cocked, just like hammer fired.

[Tuefelhunden]

As a mostly DA/SA user (HK's in my case presently) I recognize longer distance shots with accuracy in DA can be intimidating and are more difficult. However, I subscribe to the practice of DA for closer in quick shots from draw and thumbing back the hammer for longer first shots in SA if time allows just like a revolver. I think this can equally apply to both competition and defensive situations. How much time do you have and the distance of the shot being the deciding factors. It's more complicated than a good striker for sure but not that hard with repetition and practice to be proficient. As for decocking repetition/safety, I always found Berretta and then Sig P-series to be the most intuitive.

Kahr is about the perfect DAO pocket sized pistol but I've always struggled with the magazine release being too easy to accidentally release both in hand and in pocket so I continue to wait for unobtanium.

[That Guy]

I subscribe to the practice of DA for closer in quick shots from draw and thumbing back the hammer for longer first shots in SA if time allows just like a revolver.

Have you tried this out on the range? I recall one Drill of the Week we had on this forum where you had a target at 50 yards. You started from the shooting position of your choice with your pistol already in your hand, and had 3 seconds to shoot the target. Single round per repetition with multiple reps, if I recall correctly. I made a complete mess out of the exercise when trying to thumb cock the hammer, whereas when I just shot double action I had fairly good results for me (something like half in the -0, with the rest being -1 hits on an IDPA target). Since then I have had the opportunity to shoot at a half size steel target from extended ranges several times, and while the double action press is a bit slower than a single action press, it's no trouble at all at least up to the 50 meter line. (Past 50 meters my hit ratio on that target drops way down really fast, regardless of which trigger press I use. I've told myself it's probably just because I can't see the sights clearly and not because I suck at shooting pistols or anything like that. :) ) These experiences have taught me that in most circumstances at least I am probably better off just pressing through the DA trigger pull, rather than trying to do something I don't normally practice.

Granted, I'm working with a nice Beretta trigger and not a H&K one. :)

[frozentundra]

I really, really like the triggers on the double action SCCY pistols. I keep trying to screw up the courage to buy one, but so far I've always come to my senses in time.

I wish HK would buy the SCCY patents. I'd happily pay $700 dollars for one that was reliable, durable, and had a decent optic mount.

YouTube gun influencers can take their "good triggers" and go sit on them.

[Chuck Whitlock]

IIRC, Claude Werner has had favorable experiences with SCCY pistols.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

SCCY recently updated their guns with metal triggers, G43 sight dovetails, and no finger grooves. I would really like to try one out. I wish they would come out with a larger pistol, their guns seem to me to be too big for pocket carry and unnecessarily small/light for AIWB.

[medmo]

Just my 2 penny’s worth. The challenges of “two different trigger pulls” and the “transition” is blown way out of proportion. Look, if I can shoot the TDA system pretty well then pretty much anyone can. You pull the trigger straight to the year as you clean up your sight picture. The first pull is going to be longer than the rest. I just ran out and banged a few rounds through my PX4CC. Six rounds, 40 yards, three two round stings, 1st DA and 2nd SA. The next is a B8, all 10 rounds shot DA. Shoot, decock, repeat. 94, not bad considering shot cold and I ran through it quickly. Also, the “decock” problem. I’ve never been able to wrap my head around that one. Ever hear someone say that the safety on a 1911 is a problem because someone might forget to throw it back on? If someone did forget to decock, they would be in the same situation as a lot of folks who carry SFA pistols that have a decent trigger. I’m sure the undecocked decocker would be noticed when reholstering with the hammer thumbed.

[L-2]

I quickly scanned through the responses and didn't see "GLOCK" mentioned.
I think many folks might think of double-action-only, aka DAO as only having a hammer-fired semiauto.
I realize the Glock doesn't have a hammer system but it does have the option of its NY1 and NY2 springs which will provide a "DAO-like" trigger feel:
https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/SP07412
https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/SP07405
https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/47337
https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/39651
https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/39324

Instead, Glock also has "plus" aka "+" connectors which will give a heavier trigger pull, but without a "DAO" feeling reset.

No responses needed. I just wanted to point something out which nobody else seems to have mentioned yet.

(Of course, there are also revolvers which can be used in a double-action mode, but may not have the same semiauto calibers, but there are some with semi-calibers, and won't be mag-fed.)

[medmo]

Way back when we started shooting and had pretty much settled on Beretta 92s the DA shot was difficult. Then I watched the Langdon series posted above. Then I went to the range and forced myself to shoot 2 boxes of ammo all in DA. That made a tremendous difference. In the last 5-6 years Langdon has really gotten to be the leader in B92s and having hammer springs available in ranges from 10# to 16# plus his TJIBs, the DA shot is almost nothing to worry about. Our idpa 92s w/10 or 11# springs and NP3 TJIBs all have 5# or less DA pulls. And they are super smooth. A 13# spring in our defense guns gets the DA weight up to 5.5# but still super smooth. I just shot a match last Saturday and the 3rd or 4th stage had first shot a 6 inch steel at about 12yds. I had to concentrate to make that hit. But afterwards I realized that for the other 5 stages, I didn't even think about the DA first shot.

Hitting the nail on the head. If someone wants to shoot a TDA pistol, or any other action pistol, proficiently they can't rely on luck. They will have to put a little work into it. I usually start with a few strings one shot DA, then a few 2 strings DA and SA for warm up. LTT works some serious voodoo magic for Beretta pistols. Ernest recommends not going below 12# hammer springs for the 92 platform carry guns due to gunk build up in the firing pin channel.

[medmo]

I quickly scanned through the responses and didn't see "GLOCK" mentioned.
I think many folks might think of double-action-only, aka DAO as only having a hammer-fired semiauto.
I realize the Glock doesn't have a hammer system but it does have the option of its NY1 and NY2 springs which will provide a "DAO-like" trigger feel:
https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/SP07412
https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/SP07405
https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/47337
https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/39651
https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/39324

Instead, Glock also has "plus" aka "+" connectors which will give a heavier trigger pull, but without a "DAO" feeling reset.

No responses needed. I just wanted to point something out which nobody else seems to have mentioned yet.

(Of course, there are also revolvers which can be used in a double-action mode, but may not have the same semiauto calibers, but there are some with semi-calibers, and won't be mag-fed.)


Respectfully disagree. In my mind a DAO trigger is based on a SA/DA pistol that has been altered to only shoot DA. What that means is a long in length trigger pull like a double action revolver trigger. To me the NY1 and NY2 Glock triggers feel like heavy and squishy SFA triggers and not at all like a longer smooth DA trigger.

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

I like HK for plastic if you can find a DAO trigger kit.

But even better, Beretta 92DAO Centurion. A little heavier, but it's a fabulous DAO pistol.

The only problem with true DAO in HK pistols is that it will likely be a ridiculous heavy and aweful pull. Maybe if you can get P30 setup this way it may be better but the others are pretty sad state of affairs from what I've seen.

[L-2]

Disagree or not, my suggestion was just something for the OP to consider.
I didn't mean to imply a NY1 or NY2 trigger Glock would pass for a revolver in a blindfolded test.
I realize there will somehow be a different feel, but at least get to a repeatable 12 pound trigger pull.

The OP is looking for something which may not even exist in a new-in-box available form, although, I think, HK still has its "LEM" triggered guns in its catalog. I believe SIG has shelved its "DAK" and "DAO" triggered "classic" P-series guns for now, but there are likely some used SIGs still out there.

If the OP finds something satisfactory to him/her, perhaps he'll post what he'll have found which satisfies the desired handgun. It's a good question, at least academically.

I think, for the OP, is to shop and make the best choice for what's available; then train to a level of proficiency with that firearm to his satisfaction. It seems the OP is just a couple of decades late, as those DAO semiautos don't seem to be available anymore, I'm thinking of those older SIGs and S&W semiautos.

Edited to add: For the OP, also take a look at the Kahr-brand of firearms,
https://www.kahr.com/
as I believe NYPD had some of these on its approved firearms list back when NYPD required heavier, perhaps DAO-like, trigger pulls.

[Sig_Fiend]

I quickly scanned through the responses and didn't see "GLOCK" mentioned.
I think many folks might think of double-action-only, aka DAO as only having a hammer-fired semiauto.
I realize the Glock doesn't have a hammer system but it does have the option of its NY1 and NY2 springs which will provide a "DAO-like" trigger feel:
https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/SP07412
https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/SP07405
https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/47337
https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/39651
https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/39324

Instead, Glock also has "plus" aka "+" connectors which will give a heavier trigger pull, but without a "DAO" feeling reset.

No responses needed. I just wanted to point something out which nobody else seems to have mentioned yet.

(Of course, there are also revolvers which can be used in a double-action mode, but may not have the same semiauto calibers, but there are some with semi-calibers, and won't be mag-fed.)

I know some will disagree with that but, I think the Glock NY triggers are at least worth mentioning from a testing/experimentation standpoint, at least for existing Glock owners.

Yes, it's not nearly the same amount of trigger travel as say a Beretta 92D. The NY triggers are certainly not a replacement for a DA/DAO pull (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?21470-Info-on-FBI-study-regarding-trigger-weight-versus-length-of-pull) in terms of safety, as length of travel has been well-established as more important.

That said, if someone already has a Glock and is considering jumping into the DAO realm, why not spend the $5 on the trigger spring for your Glock as sort of a teaser for how a constant force pull feels?

If someone can't even stand a 6-7# NY1 trigger setup, they sure as heck aren't going to like a lot of true DAO pulls that are 2-3x the length of travel. It's a cheap test at least but, I realize not everyone likes to tinker.

In all fairness, an HK LEM with a light or medium TRS (medium only on the P30 series) does feel considerably better than a Glock NY1 IMO.

[medmo]

Disagree or not, my suggestion was just something for the OP to consider.
I didn't mean to imply a NY1 or NY2 trigger Glock would pass for a revolver in a blindfolded test.
I realize there will somehow be a different feel, but at least get to a repeatable 12 pound trigger pull.

The OP is looking for something which may not even exist in a new-in-box available form, although, I think, HK still has its "LEM" triggered guns in its catalog. I believe SIG has shelved its "DAK" and "DAO" triggered "classic" P-series guns for now, but there are likely some used SIGs still out there.

If the OP finds something satisfactory to him/her, perhaps he'll post what he'll have found which satisfies the desired handgun. It's a good question, at least academically.

I think, for the OP, is to shop and make the best choice for what's available; then train to a level of proficiency with that firearm to his satisfaction. It seems the OP is just a couple of decades late, as those DAO semiautos don't seem to be available anymore, I'm thinking of those older SIGs and S&W semiautos.

Edited to add: For the OP, also take a look at the Kahr-brand of firearms,
https://www.kahr.com/
as I believe NYPD had some of these on its approved firearms list back when NYPD required heavier, perhaps DAO-like, trigger pulls.

Got it, understood, thanks.

[HeavyDuty]

Disagree or not, my suggestion was just something for the OP to consider.
I didn't mean to imply a NY1 or NY2 trigger Glock would pass for a revolver in a blindfolded test.
I realize there will somehow be a different feel, but at least get to a repeatable 12 pound trigger pull.

The OP is looking for something which may not even exist in a new-in-box available form, although, I think, HK still has its "LEM" triggered guns in its catalog. I believe SIG has shelved its "DAK" and "DAO" triggered "classic" P-series guns for now, but there are likely some used SIGs still out there.

If the OP finds something satisfactory to him/her, perhaps he'll post what he'll have found which satisfies the desired handgun. It's a good question, at least academically.

I think, for the OP, is to shop and make the best choice for what's available; then train to a level of proficiency with that firearm to his satisfaction. It seems the OP is just a couple of decades late, as those DAO semiautos don't seem to be available anymore, I'm thinking of those older SIGs and S&W semiautos.

Edited to add: For the OP, also take a look at the Kahr-brand of firearms,
https://www.kahr.com/
as I believe NYPD had some of these on its approved firearms list back when NYPD required heavier, perhaps DAO-like, trigger pulls.

They do, and they are becoming my choice. I put a heavy trigger return spring into them and I’m quite happy with the length and weight. I know, I’m only ten years late to the party…

[JonInWA]

I'll also jump on the Glock NY-1 and NY-2's for consideration. I ran a NY-2 for a season in my G21, and while I ultimately went back to the "regular" coil spring Glock trigger return spring, I wasn't all that displeased with the NY-2, except in long/repetitive strings of fire; my trigger finger got pretty tired. It did provide a somewhat revolver-like triggerpull flavor, and really wasn't that onerous to use.

If you're EDC'ing a Glock, it's an option worthy of consideration-and it's an easy and cheap experiment.

I'm not sure of the applicability of the NY spring options in the Gen5 Glocks; my 2021 Armorer's Manual isn't really clear on it; the NY options are pictured in a frame labeled "Gen4 Previous," and it wasn't discussed in detail to the point where I wrote it down in my notes; perhaps someone else can chime in more definitively.

Best, Jon

[JonInWA]

I checked my 2018 course notes; they specified that there are NY1 springs for Gen5 Glocks, but then they were only available for Canadian LEO contract/order guns. I don't know if the Gen5 NY1 (or NY2) are different from earlier NYs.

Best, Jon

[HeavyDuty]

I picked up a Gen5 NY-1 a few months ago, it’s in my 26.5 now.

[JonInWA]

Hmmm...question solved; according to my current Armorer's parts list, part # 39651 is a black Gen5 NY1 spring, excluding G19X and G45, and part # 47337 is a gray NY2 Gen5 spring, also excluding G19X and G45.

Best, Jon

[medmo]

Just my 2 penny’s worth. The challenges of “two different trigger pulls” and the “transition” is blown way out of proportion. Look, if I can shoot the TDA system pretty well then pretty much anyone can. You pull the trigger straight to the year as you clean up your sight picture. The first pull is going to be longer than the rest. I just ran out and banged a few rounds through my PX4CC. Six rounds, 40 yards, three two round stings, 1st DA and 2nd SA. The next is a B8, all 10 rounds shot DA. Shoot, decock, repeat. 94, not bad considering shot cold and I ran through it quickly. Also, the “decock” problem. I’ve never been able to wrap my head around that one. Ever hear someone say that the safety on a 1911 is a problem because someone might forget to throw it back on? If someone did forget to decock, they would be in the same situation as a lot of folks who carry SFA pistols that have a decent trigger. I’m sure the undecocked decocker would be noticed when reholstering with the hammer thumbed.

The 10 round DA string, (94), was at 25 yards. Oops, don’t want anyone to think I did that at 40. I need to leave a sharpy pen at my range to mark up the targets before pics.

[CraigS]

Not our favorite but a Glock is an option. My wife started carrying a G19 in 2014 and my immediate thought was the trigger was too light for purse carry so I started experimenting w/ trigger bars etc. One we tried got rid of the bump or wall completely. I 'think' it was the Edge but not 100% on that.
https://ghostinc.com/comparision-chart-for-connectors/

[JonInWA]

I mis-read my Armorer's parts list-actually the #39651 black NY1 and the gray #47337 NY2 INCLUDES, not excludes the G19X and G45-my bad.

And there's a slim NY1,#39324 that's for the G42, G43, G43X and G48.

Best, Jon

[Sig_Fiend]

Not our favorite but a Glock is an option. My wife started carrying a G19 in 2014 and my immediate thought was the trigger was too light for purse carry so I started experimenting w/ trigger bars etc. One we tried got rid of the bump or wall completely. I 'think' it was the Edge but not 100% on that.
https://ghostinc.com/comparision-chart-for-connectors/

Yep, the Ghost Edge connector definitely does it. It's my favorite connector by far. On this video you can see the force curve mapped against other connectors to get a sense of how smooth the break is. (Edge connector is at 10:30)


https://youtu.be/0YJ0hX9N0aM?t=625

If you combine the Ghost Edge connector with an NY1 TRS, it's quite a different experience. The wall is mostly gone. The over-travel no longer goes from break -> zero trigger weight instantly, as you have constant tension from the TRS. You also get a robust reset. It ends up being somewhat reminiscent of a DA revolver trigger, though with ~1/3 to 1/4 of the length of trigger travel. Still not a replacement for a good DA/DAO but, I quite like this combo for what it is.

[ViniVidivici]

That is my preferred config for gen 2 & 3 Glocks, NY1 w/ "-" connector. For Connectors I like the Zev Pro-Con the best, but also use Ghost Ranger and a LW in one gun.

Indeed, removes the wall, is smoother and a little more DAO-like in feel, and yields very positive reset.

I ran a NY1 w/ standard connector for a while, and just got tired of it, as it yields a very hard break at the wall. The "-" connector makes the press a bit lighter, and more consistent throughout travel.

Definitely worth trying for someone who already owns Glocks.

[HeavyDuty]

I mis-read my Armorer's parts list-actually the #39651 black NY1 and the gray #47337 NY2 INCLUDES, not excludes the G19X and G45-my bad.

And there's a slim NY1,#39324 that's for the G42, G43, G43X and G48.

Best, Jon

Good info, thank you - I’ll get one of these ordered for my carry 43.

[mrflash]

I would say the P2000, P2000SK, P30SK, and USP Compact (all in LEM (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?9457-Why-I-like-the-LEM-as-a-quot-street-trigger-quot), usually in V1, V2, or V7 variants) are probably the most realistic current production compact guns with some form of a DAO trigger. LEM is not a true DAO but, it sort of mimics it. It's a love it or hate it trigger system for a lot of people, though, so I'd see if you can try one out locally first. One thing to watch out for, though, is a few of the models like the P2K and USP Compact did briefly come in a true DAO variant. I might be off but, I believe this was around the end of the 90's to the early 2000's, possibly mid 2000's. That true DAO is not the one you want as it's a heavier trigger that isn't great. If you buy something recent production or new, you'll be fine. I'd just pay more attention if you find something used, much older production, and getting close to ~20y/o. If browsing used guns, take note of the date codes (https://hk-usa.com/faqs/how-can-i-tell-what-year-my-usp-was-made/) on the frame or slide to figure out production year.

The Px4 series (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?16519-The-PX4-Compact-might-be-my-DA-SA-Glock-19) are also decent. I believe the Type-D (DAO) variant (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?35121-PX4-D-vs-92-D-Internals) only came in the Full Size. However, the Compact or Compact Carry can be converted to DAO by removing several components, similar to how you would on a 90-series. Doing this conversion may be more work than you want but, I bring it up since LTT offers tuned Px4's (https://langdontactical.com/products/guns/px4-series/) as well as red dot mounting options. If you don't mind the full size, you can occasionally find the Type-D model (visible by no safety levers on the slide) on Gunbroker. They're a bit tough to find but, I usually see a few listed there every other month.

If you don't mind an out of production option that's still plentiful, the P250 (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?45741-If-a-person-wanted-to-try-a-P250-in-2021) still has a lot of attractive qualities. Obviously the numerous sizes and frame options are one of the nice features. The trigger might be heavier than some like if they're used to a light SA or striker pull of ~5.5# or less. Anyone with any real time on a revolver shouldn't have an issue with them though. One of the nice things about the P250 series is, despite being out of production for a few years, a number of components are shared with the P320 series, including magazines. So they should remain viable for many, many more years. Some parts supply is drying up a bit for them though, so if going with one of these, I'd stock up on some spare parts to be safe. I really regret not snatching up a dozen or more of these when Cabela's had a blowout on them years ago for something like $200-250 a piece. ;)

If you don't mind the weight and prefer a metal-framed DAO, beyond the SIG DAK's others have mentioned, just about any Beretta 90-series is always an option. For carry, I'd probably opt for something like a 92 Compact. For DAO, there is the 92D (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?17768-Beretta-92D) / 96D (and Centurion versions (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?40595-I-want-a-D-(DAO)-Beretta-92-Centurion-How-do-I-make-it-happen)), 92D-XR (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?44855-Beretta-92D-w-92X-Grip) (rare), and possibly some rare models I'm forgetting. The D models are getting harder and harder to find but, nearly any 90-series can easily be converted to DAO (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?29146-Blasphemy-alert-can-I-convert-my-beretta-92g-sd-to-dao) by removal of a few components. If it was me and I was going the 92 route, I'd probably get something like a 92 Compact non-rail frame, convert it to DAO, add Langdon's TJIB (https://langdontactical.com/trigger-job-in-a-bag-92-96-m9-series/), and call it a day. In a more perfect world, for me it might be a 92D Compact Type M (https://www.gunsamerica.com/922863637/Beretta-92D-Compact-Type-M-Melonite.htm) but, I wouldn't have the heart to carry a $2-3K rare gun like that. ;)

Bottom line, most of your options will probably be Beretta, HK, or SIG if looking for current or recent production options. Others exist but, you don't hear about them as much on PF, or else you do but they're long since out of production (e.g. S&W third gen autos or older).

;)