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DocGKR
10-08-2012, 03:07 AM
Please read the rules (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1837-Drill-of-the-Week) before participating in this thread.

Week 48: F-PAR High% Pair
results may be posted until 11:59pm EST on Monday 15 October 2012.

by Todd Louis Green
Range: 7yd
Target: 8" circle, IPSC A-zone, or 8.5x11 sheet of paper
Start position: holstered
Rounds fired: 40

You will need a shot timer for this drill and you will need to know how to operate the PAR function.

This is another Floating PAR (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5396-Week-45-F-PAR-High-Draw).

Begin with a PAR time that you can confidently draw and hit the target twice from the holster.

Draw and fire two rounds at the target. If you score both hits, reduce the PAR time by 0.1 seconds. If miss one, increase the PAR by 0.1 seconds; if you miss both shots, increase the PAR by 0.2 seconds. Do not make incremental changes greater than this even if your times are much farther from the PAR.

Draw and fire two again with the new PAR. Repeat the process (subtracting 0.1 seconds for 100% hits or adding 0.1 seconds per miss) until you've performed a total of 20 2-shot draws.

Please report the following when you post your results in this thread:

Target used
Start position (open holster, concealed, retention holster)
Starting PAR
Lowest PAR with a hit
Final PAR (20th draw)


(if you cannot draw from a holster due to some ill thought out, suspect, sissy rules, you may participate by shooting the drill from the ready position instead, until you can find a decent range that will allow an acceptable training regimen)

Training with firearms is an inherently dangerous activity. Be sure to follow all safety protocols when using firearms or practicing these drills. These drills are provided for information purposes only. Use at your own risk.

Mr_White
10-08-2012, 12:37 PM
I like how you are openly contemptuous of ranges run cold and those that won't allow holster work, shooting on the move, or other necessary and realistic shooting and gunhandling training and practice. I share your views on that. It's very unfortunate that that is the reality for so many dedicated handgun practitioners.

Jay Cunningham
10-09-2012, 07:55 AM
If you don't make the par do you add 0.1 for the next run?

DocGKR
10-09-2012, 10:56 AM
Yes--if you fail, add.

Jay Cunningham
10-09-2012, 06:33 PM
If you drop both shots AND go over the PAR, is it - 0.3 for the next run?

CCT125US
10-09-2012, 07:21 PM
-HK P30 V3
-Target used: 8" circle
-AIWB from under a T-shirt
-Starting par: 1.8
-Lowest par: 1.4
-Final par: 1.5

Bounced back and forth between 1.5 and 1.6
Also shot the I-Hack several times 7/9 pass and 8/9 pass, then failed several times going for clean.
And FAST times= 4.51 clean: 1.42/.46/1.82/.29/.27/.25 and 4.84 clean: 1.55/.47/2.12/.27/.23/.20
Floating par practice has been greatly beneficial

DocGKR
10-09-2012, 08:38 PM
See ToddG's comments below.

ToddG
10-09-2012, 09:12 PM
The way I do it, fwiw, is to add 0.1 per miss (whether it's off the target or late). So if I miss both, I tack on two tenths. Thought process being that if I couldn't hit either, I need a lot more time to get both.

Skullybones
10-09-2012, 09:45 PM
8"X11" paper. IWB with Springfield XD 5".

Starting 2.5 Sec.
Best 1.5
Final 1.7

Fun Drill.

BN
10-10-2012, 06:46 PM
IDPA target with the minus zero outlined in black.
Gen 3 G-17, Comp-Tac Holster, 511 vest.
Start PAR: 1.7
Lowest PAR with a hit: 1.4
Final PAR: 1.6

Reshot with Gen 4 G-17 Comp-Tac, 511 vest
Start PAR: 1.7
Lowest PAR with hit: 1.6
Final PAR: 1.6

Again I shot the Gen 3 with Warren sights better than the Gen 4 with Ameriglo sights.

MDS
10-10-2012, 07:10 PM
Target: 8" paper plate
Position: G19RTF AIWB in a Keeper under a Polo
Starting PAR: 2.5s
Lowest PAR with a hit: 1.7 (1.44/1.77)
Lowest PAR with 2 hits: 1.8 (1.41/1.73)
Final PAR: 2.0

Mr_White
10-11-2012, 11:18 AM
IDPA target with the minus zero outlined in black.
Gen 3 G-17, Comp-Tac Holster, 511 vest.
Start PAR: 1.7
Lowest PAR with a hit: 1.4
Final PAR: 1.6

Reshot with Gen 4 G-17 Comp-Tac, 511 vest
Start PAR: 1.7
Lowest PAR with hit: 1.6
Final PAR: 1.6

Again I shot the Gen 3 with Warren sights better than the Gen 4 with Ameriglo sights.

Which Warrens and which Ameriglos, just out of curiosity?

Mr_White
10-11-2012, 04:07 PM
Target: 8” circle/-0 zone on IDPA target
Start position: Gen3 G34 concealed in a Keeper under a t-shirt
Starting PAR: 1.6
Lowest PAR with a hit: 1.1
Final PAR: 1.1
Best clean pair: 1.02 (.83, .19)

BN
10-11-2012, 05:04 PM
Which Warrens and which Ameriglos, just out of curiosity?

The Gen 3 has a Warren wave rear sight with a .150 notch and the front is a .125 wide Dawson with a green fiber optic.

The Gen 4 has an Ameriglo i-dot rear with a .180 notch and the front is part # GL-212-220-GR-C ProGlo front sight, Green Tritum, LimeGreen LumiGlow Outline. .220" H x .140"W.

When I shot this exercise the other day I was facing South into the sun. The green front of the Ameriglo washed out.

Today I reshot it with both guns. Comp-Tac holster 5.11 vest, just like before. I moved the target and shot with the sun behind me. Nice to have my own range. :)

results:
Gen 4 6 misses
1.7
1.6
1.6
Fastest with both hits: 1.49

Gen 3 4 misses.
1.7
1.6
1.6
Fastest draw with hits: 1.51
Looks like a draw today.

Mr_White
10-11-2012, 07:47 PM
The Gen 3 has a Warren wave rear sight with a .150 notch and the front is a .125 wide Dawson with a green fiber optic.

The Gen 4 has an Ameriglo i-dot rear with a .180 notch and the front is part # GL-212-220-GR-C ProGlo front sight, Green Tritum, LimeGreen LumiGlow Outline. .220" H x .140"W.

When I shot this exercise the other day I was facing South into the sun. The green front of the Ameriglo washed out.

Today I reshot it with both guns. Comp-Tac holster 5.11 vest, just like before. I moved the target and shot with the sun behind me. Nice to have my own range. :)

results:
Gen 4 6 misses
1.7
1.6
1.6
Fastest with both hits: 1.49

Gen 3 4 misses.
1.7
1.6
1.6
Fastest draw with hits: 1.51
Looks like a draw today.

Thanks Bill!

Failure2Stop
10-11-2012, 10:00 PM
Target: 8” circle/-0 zone on IDPA target
Start position: Gen3 G34 concealed in a Keeper under a t-shirt
Starting PAR: 1.6
Lowest PAR with a hit: 1.1
Final PAR: 1.1
Best clean pair: 1.02 (.83, .19)

Nice runs.
What sights are you using?
Do you think that a different sight setup would effect your times?
What about in different lighting conditions?

I'm not trying to call you out or anything, I just saw your question to Bill about sights, and when I saw your times I suddenly became curious.
Cheers.

Mr_White
10-11-2012, 11:33 PM
Nice runs.
What sights are you using?
Do you think that a different sight setup would effect your times?
What about in different lighting conditions?

I'm not trying to call you out or anything, I just saw your question to Bill about sights, and when I saw your times I suddenly became curious.
Cheers.

I used my normal practice and competition gun, which is an internally-stock Gen3 G34 with Ameriglo Defoor (all black) sights. I use those because I believe them to be like reverse training wheels: they don't help me run my visual focus correctly, they force me to do so (because they are precise, but low visibility sights, being all black) or else I will get bad results from being completely visually unaware of the sights' position.

My carry gun is an identical Gen3 G34 except it has Ameriglo Operator night sights, which have are three-dot tritium, green tritium in front, yellow in back, white outline around the front trit, no outline around the rear trit, giving a high-visibility element to the front sight when there is enough light to discern the white. They still have the precision capability of any notch and post sight set in good enough light, but I hedge my 'focal bet' by having a higher visibility front sight, in case 'in the moment' - having never been there before - I find myself target focusing despite my constant practice to sight focus. That's my rationale.

For this drill, since the target is a larger one and at fairly close range, I think if anything a higher visibility front sight might make the times faster by a hair, but I think it's really close to same-same. If we put it in poorer lighting conditions, I think the all black Defoor sights would theoretically be worse, but since the target is so big and close, I believe index to play a large role at max speed and there might not be much difference regardless of the sight type or lighting conditions. I shot it on an indoor range that doesn't have the best light anyway. Black sights worked ok.

My question to Bill was only out of curiosity as to which sights he found most advantageous, to compare his preferences and experience with my own.

ChrisG
10-12-2012, 07:09 PM
Gen 4 G17 from keeper under untucked shirt.
Shot 8" circle using a turning target system set to par times.

Starting Par: 2.3
Lowest Par with 1 hit: 1.7
Lowest Clean Par: 1.8
Final Par: 1.8

DocGKR
10-13-2012, 01:06 AM
G19 w/RMR07 carried AIWB in a Fricke Seraphim from under a long sleeve Polo shirt and Gore Tex shell firing Fed AE9FP 147 gr FMJ
8.5 x 11 paper
Starting PAR: 2.0 seconds
Lowest PAR with a hit: 1.5 seconds (1.42s)
Final PAR (20th draw): 1.6 seconds

Note--bounced a lot between 1.5 and 1.6.

BN
10-13-2012, 10:32 AM
I'm gonna use an 8 1/2 x 11 inch piece of paper for the next drill that allows it. Most of my misses on the 8" circle would have hit the paper and I could be an internet hero. :cool:

JV_
10-14-2012, 06:14 AM
8.5x11
Concealed/AIWB
Starting Par - 1.8s
Lowest Par - 1.4s
Final Par - 1.3s

ToddG
10-15-2012, 11:20 AM
SACS/Warren 9mm 1911
5 Shot SME under polo
8" circle of Q-PT

Start: 1.4
Best: 1.2
End: 1.1, 2nd shot missed 2" low

The first 15 or so runs I literally alternated between 1.4 success, 1.3 fail. Then things came together near the end. At 1.1 I was definitely shooting faster than I could visually process. My draw with this gun continues to lag.

AJZ
10-15-2012, 04:33 PM
Gun: M&P FS9
Gear: Ludus Magnus MMA carried AIWB under Sweater
Target: IDPA Practice Target

Starting PAR: 2.0
Lowest PAR w/Hit: 1.6
Final PAR: 1.8

Bounced between 1.5 and 1.6 most of the runs. Would get both hits but be above 1.50 or would be below 1.50 and drop a round.

Corey
10-15-2012, 05:25 PM
Smith & Wesson M&P9 FS, Blade Tech Holster, open front concealment.
Target: 8” Circle on Q-PT Target
Starting Par: 2.5 seconds.
Lowest Par with both hits: 2.2 seconds (time was 2.17)
Final Par: 2.2 seconds. (One late hit, time was 2.22)

Running this drill one time was the only shooting I did this past week. It showed in the results. I felt slow and had to really work at getting both hits.

WyoXd
10-15-2012, 09:11 PM
Gen 4 Glock 17
Action Target 40% IPSC Torso Target
Comp Tac Paddle Holster--Open carry since I forgot my vest or even a jacket

Starting Par: 1.6
Lowest Par w/both hits: 1.3(1.29 actual time)
Final Par: 1.3 (1.28 with 1 miss)

My average time for my clean runs was 1.36. My slowest clean time was 1.48, and my fastest clean run was 1.24. I have really enjoyed and seen tremendous benefit to these floating par drills lately. The goal attainment/penalization aspect of the drills, for me anyways, encourages a much higher level of concentration than just repeating the same drill 20 times. I also get a lot better picture of where my skill level is really at--not just seeing extremes. Only downside for me is having to change my timer every run.