Guitars with eyes closed

[JCN]

We should do this shooting pistols with eyes closed…


https://youtu.be/PMHqiyvDy0I

Totem Polar
Lex Luthier

[Totem Polar]

We should do this shooting pistols with eyes closed…


https://youtu.be/PMHqiyvDy0I

Totem Polar
Lex Luthier

Heh. I know that dude.

Along those lines, ballistic radio guy John Johnston shot and passed his state's CCW qual blindfolded and posted the clip to his social media. Pretty funny.

[JCN]

Heh. I know that dude.

Along those lines, ballistic radio guy John Johnston shot and passed his state's CCW qual blindfolded and posted the clip to his social media. Pretty funny.

I like the comments of the broken in $300 Yamaha beating the expensive “decoration” set up guitar as a Glock versus whatever $$$ fancy gun. Exactly right. Playability/ shootability matters.

[Duces Tecum]

Along those lines, ballistic radio guy John Johnston shot and passed his state's CCW qual blindfolded and posted the clip to his social media. Pretty funny.

Do you think John Johnston gave even a moment's thought to the probable / possible effect his stunt on his state's next revision to their CCW qual?


Duces

[GearFondler]

Do you think John Johnston gave even a moment's thought to the probable / possible effect his stunt on his state's next revision to their CCW qual?


DucesThat might have been his point... Just sayin.

[EVP]

JCN totally see your point and agree,


But to your point, since it’s the internet, why should we care what a person on the internet or a YouTube video thinks?

[JAH 3rd]

Gonna give it a try next time I go to the range. Shooting blindfolded may improve my groups!

[Joe in PNG]

A lot of musicians judge how good the sound of their gear is with their eyes.

[MVS]

Being a bit of a guitar player I have watched a number of these, though never one with classical guitars. The two big take aways here were the skill of the guitarist and how much difference a well set up guitar can make. I have a few guitars but my easiest one to play well is a cheap Fender acoustic that I had set up by a left handed professional set up guy. (I am a lefty)

[Bernomad]

A lot of musicians judge how good the sound of their gear is with their eyes.

Not necessarily, in my experience. At least not people who actually play.

[JCN]

Being a bit of a guitar player I have watched a number of these, though never one with classical guitars. The two big take aways here were the skill of the guitarist and how much difference a well set up guitar can make. I have a few guitars but my easiest one to play well is a cheap Fender acoustic that I had set up by a left handed professional set up guy. (I am a lefty)

I think a lot of good analogies to guns and marksmen, no?

[FrankB]

Shooting with your eyes closed: My wife is a raging trigger monster with her Glock 19. When I want her to pause her mag dump, I tap her shoulder. That failed to stop her a few weeks ago, so I waved my hand in front of her eyes. After she ran out of Bang, she told me that it looked like a shooting exercise!

I used to have the misfortune of living within a 30 minute drive The Classical Guitar Store in Philadelphia. Classical guitars are far more lyrical than electric and acoustic steel string beasts, and reveal tonal deficiencies very quickly. Playability is very dependent on string height, and the straightness of the fretboard. Electric guitars sorely lack any volume, and players make great use of amplifiers, cords, and effects of all sorts. I see the same with pistols. Change the trigger components, sights, all springs, and even the finish. Just as some 12 year old kid will often walk into a guitar shop, and make a $79 guitar sing like an angel, Joe Blow is going to walk into the range and clean up with a S&W Shield.

[MVS]

I think a lot of good analogies to guns and marksmen, no?

Definitely

[rawkguitarist]

This is something straight up my ally. And these videos/debates are an irritant to me.

I've played guitar for 34 years and have been gigging for about 32 years. The whole concept of "the expensive guitar doesn't offer any significant sonic differences over an inexpensive one" isn't new. Simply listening to one, especially an electric guitar through an amp, even great guitar players may not be able to ID the more expensive one.

BUT playing a guitar, just like many have said, shoot a stock glock compared to a Nighthawk 1911, there's a significant difference. Paying for a higher end guitar you're paying for the quality of construction and specifically the hand work to finish the fine details. A $300 or $500 guitar will sound just fine... but will have shortcomings that make it less enjoyable to play. Also, the intonation (tuning) of the guitar is often a variance between cheap and expensive guitars. The structure of the guitar itself can allow fine adjustments to the relief (bow) of the neck and action (hight of the strings). More expensive guitars are easier to adjust and often less expensive guitars are limited in their adjustments. This all adds to the playability of the guitar.

The playability of a guitar comes down to the analogy of the right grip size, shape, the quality of the trigger pull and the recoil impulse of a pistol.

Many of these debates, if an expensive guitar is actually "worth the price" are began by envious guitar players. Probably similar to shooters bagging on gun owners with "Safe Queens".

The guitar in my avatar took 4.5 years to get and is one of kind built by Saul Koll. Naturally it was quite expensive. But down to brass tacks, $2,000 to $3,000 range will get you a guitar as good as it gets construction wise. What do incremental dollars/thousands of dollars get you? Often it's rare and expensive materials. And you're often paying a single artisan to hand build the instrument.

Sound differences can be subtle. But they are real and apparent to a good player as they play the instrument. On the other hand, the playability/comfort/how in tune the guitar is, is is quite objective and is often worth it to an experienced player.

[Lex Luthier]

This is something straight up my ally. And these videos/debates are an irritant to me.

I've played guitar for 34 years and have been gigging for about 32 years. The whole concept of "the expensive guitar doesn't offer any significant sonic differences over an inexpensive one" isn't new. Simply listening to one, especially an electric guitar through an amp, even great guitar players may not be able to ID the more expensive one.

BUT playing a guitar, just like many have said, shoot a stock glock compared to a Nighthawk 1911, there's a significant difference. Paying for a higher end guitar you're paying for the quality of construction and specifically the hand work to finish the fine details. A $300 or $500 guitar will sound just fine... but will have shortcomings that make it less enjoyable to play. Also, the intonation (tuning) of the guitar is often a variance between cheap and expensive guitars. The structure of the guitar itself can allow fine adjustments to the relief (bow) of the neck and action (hight of the strings). More expensive guitars are easier to adjust and often less expensive guitars are limited in their adjustments. This all adds to the playability of the guitar.

The playability of a guitar comes down to the analogy of the right grip size, shape, the quality of the trigger pull and the recoil impulse of a pistol.

Many of these debates, if an expensive guitar is actually "worth the price" are began by envious guitar players. Probably similar to shooters bagging on gun owners with "Safe Queens".

The guitar in my avatar took 4.5 years to get and is one of kind built by Saul Koll. Naturally it was quite expensive. But down to brass tacks, $2,000 to $3,000 range will get you a guitar as good as it gets construction wise. What do incremental dollars/thousands of dollars get you? Often it's rare and expensive materials. And you're often paying a single artisan to hand build the instrument.

Sound differences can be subtle. But they are real and apparent to a good player as they play the instrument. On the other hand, the playability/comfort/how in tune the guitar is, is is quite objective and is often worth it to an experienced player.

I get your point.
Saul is an imaginary internet friend, though we have met in real life. He is a huge inspiration to many of us acoustic-centric folks*, as he thinks outside the box on the details so well. He makes the guitar equivalent to an Heirloom Precision 1911.
(Hi Jason!) There are very few electric guitar makers who are his equal.
I think you are correct in your assessment of
the right grip size, shape, the quality of the trigger pull and the recoil impulse of a pistol.

Being able to discern the distinction is so very key to being able to gain skill and ability to perform cold, and for a lot of folks, it's just elusive. Only with time on the strings -or on the trigger, on the clock- will the difference really make itself evident.

* I am all about an articulate single coil or humbucker circuit, but I prefer singles. Articulation is akin to a 3"x 5" headbox target. If you get it, you get it.

[rawkguitarist]

I get your point.
Saul is an imaginary internet friend, though we have met in real life. He is a huge inspiration to many of us acoustic-centricnt obout folks, as he thinks outside the box on the details so well. He makes the guitar equivalent to an Heirloom Precision 1911.
(Hi Jason!) There are very few electric guitar makers who are his equal.
I think you are correct in your assessment of

Being able to discern the distinction is so very key to being able to gain skill and ability to perform cold, and for a lot of folks, it's just elusive. Only time on the strings -or on the trigger, on the clock- will the difference really make itself evident.
Rock on! Someone who knows Saul on here. With 6 guitar's he's become a great friend. Not hyperbole... he's one of the coolest, nicest people I've ever known. I believe his personality shows in his instruments. Yup, there are great guitar builders as talented as Saul. Lots of amazing choices at the higher end... just different. He's by far my favorite though.

Only other guitars I'd like would be a Ken Parker Arch Top and a Teuffel Tesla. No need though... I'm quite content with guitars.

I DO WANT a Staccato C2 really bad though.

[Lex Luthier]

Rock on! Someone who knows Saul on here. With 6 guitar's he's become a great friend. Not hyperbole... he's one of the coolest, nicest people I've ever known. I believe his personality shows in his instruments. Yup, there are great guitar builders as talented as Saul. Lots of amazing choices at the higher end... just different. He's by far my favorite though.

Only other guitars I'd like would be a Ken Parker Arch Top and a Teuffel Tesla. No need though... I'm quite content with guitars.

I DO WANT a Staccato C2 really bad though.

I have met Ken (he's as interesting and kind as he comes off) and Ulrich both. Inspiring folks. Ken's guitars sound like nothing else I've ever heard.

I think your guitar/firearm comparisons are fairly spot-on, for whatever that's worth.

I carry a Walther P99 variant, as it's akin to a Tom Anderson T or a Heritage 530. It just does that thing it does so much better than the models that inspired it, and with a *lot* of refinement. There are many better now,
but it comes down to preference at that point. "How the guitar looks", so to speak.

[Totem Polar]

I know Ken as well, since I was a Parker artist back in the dark ages. When Ken (and Larry, who was the asshole in charge) sold to Washburn (who went on to fuck up the whole Fly concept, and run the entire brand into the ground) and started his hand made archtop deal, I called him up to get the scoop. When I asked what he charged for his new guitars, he responded, “you can’t afford them.”

He was correct.

:D

The guy is a brilliant innovator.

[Joe in PNG]

Ned Steinberger is another true innovator who got reamed when he sold his brand to Gibson.

I was blessed to get my XL2 right in that in between moment when it wasn't new and cool, but before it became rare and expensive.

[rawkguitarist]

I know Ken as well, since I was a Parker artist back in the dark ages. When Ken (and Larry, who was the asshole in charge) sold to Washburn (who went on to fuck up the whole Fly concept, and run the entire brand into the ground) and started his hand made archtop deal, I called him up to get the scoop. When I asked what he charged for his new guitars, he responded, “you can’t afford them.”

He was correct.

:D

The guy is a brilliant innovator.

Looks like a handful of us have a lot to chat about!!

Yeah, last I heard Ken's guitars are $35k. Way out of my price range too. My dream would be to get ahold of Green Beam. The Fly guitars sure were neat. Ridiculous feel and, naturally, forward thinking. I didn't follow the later problems with the brand/design. But they definitely became kind of "out of style" for lack of a better description. I love that Ken carried over the headstock used on the Fly's to his arch tops.

There are so many great guitar builders. I'm honestly too much of a rock guitar player, I just don't enjoy acoustic that much. If I bought a nice one, I'd get a Collings C10 Deluxe. I know there are even "nicer" acoustics. But Collings would do me fine.

Other builders I dig:

K-Line - for fender style guitars (I'm a Tele fan).
Suhr - for really nice production guitars
PRS - for really nice production guitars
Ronin
Tyler - yes, I love the headstock too.

Lastly - I skimmed the video in the OP. That gentlemen is a GREAT PLAYER. That piece he played with tremolo picking on top and simultanious slow harmonic/bass note changes on the bottom was amazing.

[JCN]

I get your point.
Saul is an imaginary internet friend, though we have met in real life. He is a huge inspiration to many of us acoustic-centric folks*, as he thinks outside the box on the details so well. He makes the guitar equivalent to an Heirloom Precision 1911.
(Hi Jason!) There are very few electric guitar makers who are his equal.
I think you are correct in your assessment of

Being able to discern the distinction is so very key to being able to gain skill and ability to perform cold, and for a lot of folks, it's just elusive. Only with time on the strings -or on the trigger, on the clock- will the difference really make itself evident.

* I am all about an articulate single coil or humbucker circuit, but I prefer singles. Articulation is akin to a 3"x 5" headbox target. If you get it, you get it.

Part two:

This was amazing to me.


https://youtu.be/Jk79_47mshs

Watching his brain work and how he was able to recognize subtle aspects of the guitars.

[TCinVA]

Acoustic guitars are a rabbit hole you can drown in if you want.

Some years ago when I was going to invest in a really good acoustic I played everything I could get my hands on. Including shit that was way out of my league like Huss & Dalton, top end Martin custom shop guitars and a $10,000 Bourgeois. This was in the early aughties, so a $10,000 acoustic was as insane a price as you were going to find in any guitar store that didn't specialize in vintage instruments. It took sitting in a room with no other sound and playing them back to back to be able to appreciate the tone.

The Bourgeois and one of the Martin custom shop guitars had the sweetest sound of any guitar I was able to get my hands on. (And only that specific Martin. A visually identical one sounded a lot flatter) The experience convinced me I'd never buy an acoustic without playing one in person first. If I was playing the guitar solo into a mic for a recording, they would be my choice.

As it happened, I was playing in a church setting with other instruments and even if I'd had the money to buy those lovely guitars...which would probably sell for significantly more than I would have paid for them today...they would have been lost completely in the mix.

I ended up going with a Taylor 610 (Dreadnoughts sound so much better to me than any other body style) with a spruce top and maple back and sides. A very bright guitar and nowhere near as sweet as the Martin or the Bourgeois, but a hell of a lot more affordable and it met the need. Playing lots of them I found that Taylors had a more consistent quality control than anyone else at the time and while none of their guitars sounded like magic, they all sounded very, very good and were set up properly from the factory. Couldn't say that about anything else in their price range at the time or even well outside their price range. I played a bunch of Gibson acoustics and they were largely "meh" experiences.

In that process I also learned that a lot of people don't have the ear necessary to really hear the differences between a lot of guitars, especially some of the finer aspects of acoustic tone. I could to an extent, which came as quite a surprise to the guy in the shop that had the $10,000 hand-made custom guitar. It didn't look special but I was able to tell it sounded and played special even with my exceptionally meager skills.

I don't know if I even have that ear anymore, as I did all of that with somewhere close to 15 fewer years spending large amounts of time around gunfire.

[TCinVA]

The guitar in my avatar took 4.5 years to get and is one of kind built by Saul Koll. Naturally it was quite expensive. But down to brass tacks, $2,000 to $3,000 range will get you a guitar as good as it gets construction wise. What do incremental dollars/thousands of dollars get you? Often it's rare and expensive materials. And you're often paying a single artisan to hand build the instrument.

Sound differences can be subtle. But they are real and apparent to a good player as they play the instrument. On the other hand, the playability/comfort/how in tune the guitar is, is is quite objective and is often worth it to an experienced player.

I wanted an ES-335 style guitar and I was disappointed by the Gibsons I played in my search. Then I discovered Heritage and since I didn't quite like the aesthetics of any of the few I encountered in the real world (but did like how they sounded and played) I took a leap and ordered a custom model that turned out really, really well:

101168
101169

They happily made one of their 535 guitars in "Sunsetburst" a three-tone finish with some red in the transition and white binding instead of "cream" binding.

In retrospect I should have had them do binding and inlay on the headstock, split-block abalone inlays and binding on the F holes. All of that would have cost me another $250 at the time but would have been totally worth it. And this was when Heritage was still under the ownership of the original Heritage employees in the original Gibson factory. Another early aughties purchase that probably should have gone into Amazon or Monster Energy stock instead, but there's no way I could replace it now. They literally don't make them like this anymore.

[rawkguitarist]

I wanted an ES-335 style guitar and I was disappointed by the Gibsons I played in my search. Then I discovered Heritage and since I didn't quite like the aesthetics of any of the few I encountered in the real world (but did like how they sounded and played) I took a leap and ordered a custom model that turned out really, really well:

101168
101169

They happily made one of their 535 guitars in "Sunsetburst" a three-tone finish with some red in the transition and white binding instead of "cream" binding.

In retrospect I should have had them do binding and inlay on the headstock, split-block abalone inlays and binding on the F holes. All of that would have cost me another $250 at the time but would have been totally worth it. And this was when Heritage was still under the ownership of the original Heritage employees in the original Gibson factory. Another early aughties purchase that probably should have gone into Amazon or Monster Energy stock instead, but there's no way I could replace it now. They literally don't make them like this anymore.

Man! That is an incredible guitar. Most certainly Heritage is a great alternative to Gibson. Were defiantly on my list along with the laminate Collings I-35. And I almost pulled the plug on this Koll because it was taking so long. But as I pondered that, I could see in my future I would have felt like I didn’t get exactly what I wanted. Saul Koll is a friend of mine. And although there are so many great guitar builders, he is by far my favorite.