Pistol Optics in 2023

[SoCalDep]

I’m stealing the idea of this from the LPVO thread in the carbine/rifle forum here.

This is my opinion, but I’m setting up the proverbial folding table and chair and I’m sitting here with a virtual cup of coffee asking if you’ll “change my mind”.

I asked Trijicon if they were planning to release an RMR that didn’t require removal to change the battery... in January 2020. The “we’re thinking about it” answer I got this week was the same answer I got back then. I have owned four RMRs. I’m down to one that’s about to be removed to the spare container. I will never buy another that requires removal for a battery change. Trijicon... The RMR was the thing that got pistol optics real-world cred. It will die if you don’t get your shit together.

The SRO is still rad. I’ve seen some copies of the SRO and I’m still an SRO fan. It’s awesome for what it does and I’m happy with both of mine. I have seen very minimal issues with SROs with other shooters and most of those issues were battery caps not tightened enough (though they do need to be “really” tight).

Leupold... The DPP is a decent optic but is not ideal in several ways. Get better.

Aimpoint... The ACRO P-2 is a great optic and if I could only have one gun and one optic the P-2 would be on that gun. Don’t rest on your laurels. This is where I’m a loyalist and a bit of a fanboy. I did a lot of research, testing, and I’m confident to say that Aimpoint is one of those companies that when you invest in quality, you get performance that when tested in a bunch of different areas, is better than the rest. My favorite rifle has an H2 and Aimpoint magnifier and my second favorite has a Comp M4. With all that said... There is more to be done with pistol optics. I think that Aimpoint has the right people in places to influence design and if they let those people do that we’ll see great stuff from them.

Bushnell... I’m kinda impressed so far with the RXS-250 but need to shoot it more. It needs some pretty proprietary screws, but they’ve been pretty generous with sending spares out.

EOTech... It’s very...very similar to the Bushnell. I have little experience but at least one person I very much respect has been running one and is happy. I think both the Bushnell and EOTech are probably made in the same factory and that means that my opinion of both so far is decent.

Steiner... The MPS has had mixed reviews here and a partner has experienced a broken optic that I confirmed. Steiner replaced it immediately and I think this optic has potential to solve some some traditional optic problems (glare being one). The jury is still out and as with other manufacturers there is still improvement, but it’s a great addition to the optic world and will influence development going forward.

Sig... The Romeo 1Pro is actually a pretty decent optic. I’ve taught a lot of classes with students running them and they seem to work really well. I’ve had a couple that got lazy about the shake awake, but with a quick beating they started running again and didn’t repeat the problem. They aren’ t my favorite but they make a decent pistol optic. THe Romeo 2 is something I’ve only played with for a few minutes without shooting. They want a lot of money for it and it’s not really an enclosed emitter so without a lot of time behind it I’m deferring to a truly enclosed for my preference...

Except the following, the manufacturers I haven’t mentioned I either have no experience with (that I remember currently) or I simply don’t like or care about because they are copies of better optics at a lower price point. I will pay for the better...

Then there’s Holosun.

People say they are stealing intellectual designs. So has everyone since Grubb in 1900. It’s not new.

They have been driving improvements over the past three years to include battery replacement without removing the optic on an RMR footprint, multiple reticles, solar power, multiple body metal compositions, effective compact optics, compact enclosed emitters, solar charging sights with no battery exchange/charging necessary, and based on what I saw this week, their thermal and NV rifle optics are just stupid awesome at an attainable (if not cheap) price.

Like a bunch of other products, the company is based in the US, and they happen to be in the area where I work. Their products are made in China like a lot of other products to include most of the phones we are using to look at this thread. If that’s a no-go for you I get it, and if you’re dedicated and consistent to a US or US-friendly only product then look somewhere else and be confident. If you are crap talking because it’s made in China as if that’s supposed to convince me to buy an RMR instead of a 507C I’m excited to debate.

Yes, Trijicon sued them a bit ago. When I look at the real reason I see a desperate company trying to stay relevant in the face of improved performance and better ingenuity. Let’s face it. Holosun isn’t stealing technology. That boat sailed a century ago. They’re just making things better. Other companies need to wake up and get in the race.

I have more Holosuns than any other optic. I’ve dropped my personal Holosun optic in testing from 3, 4, and twice from 5 feet (not Aaron Cowan but enough for me) to see how it performed. I’m still using it.

[WDR]

I have a G26 slide out being milled with an RMR footprint right now. My original intent was to stick a 6.5 MOA RMR on it. I have two 3.25 RMR's that I've been happy with. Checking zero once a year after a battery swap, for me, isn't a big deal. I believe they are likely the most robust mini-reflex on the market, physical abuse wise, besides maybe the Aimpoint. I like buying American made stuff, when it comes to weapons/defense use. I'd prefer not to send my dollars to the PLA (even if indirectly).

All that said, I've been eyeballing the Holosun offerings, and I do have to admit they have some neat and useful features, and have certainly pushed innovation far better than Trijicon has. Which is almost shameful. Someone here said Trijicon might be coming out with a top-loading RMR at SHOT... So I was waiting, just to see if that was actually true. I'd love to see a Trijicon sight with a side or top loading battery, with an enclosed emitter (that isn't a mailbox), that fits the legacy RMR footprint (I know, it sucks). High hopes. Just not seeing it happening.

I might still end up with an RM07... But I have started wondering if I'm being too much of a curmudgeon and stick in the mud about Holosun on a pistol.

[Lon]

I’ve had/have a lot of different MRDS - Trijicon, Holosun, Steiner, Swampfox, Sig and Shield. All my carry & work guns are running Holosun. The Trijicons (RMR/SRO) are both broke and I’ve just been lazy about sending them in to get fixed. I’ll never buy another RMR or other bottom loading battery optic.

[GJM]

I’ve had/have a lot of different MRDS - Trijicon, Holosun, Steiner, Swampfox, Sig and Shield. All my carry & work guns are running Holosun. The Trijicons (RMR/SRO) are both broke and I’ve just been lazy about sending them in to get fixed. I’ll never buy another RMR or other bottom loading battery optic.

I travel a fair amount and have a small Daka pouch in my day pack with 1225, 1632, 1620 and 2032 batteries. Not infrequently I have had to change batteries away from home. How does that work if you have an RMR?

[MVS]

I tested the Bushnell after going to a Dave Spaulding class and hearing his recommendation. It worked fine but I ended up taking it off because I was always inadvertently changing the brightness due to the button location and ease/pronouncement.

I also agree about the RMR. I got my first one mounted on a Glock 19 in I think early 2010. It served me well through the years and I have bought more, but they are being left behind in the innovation department and I won't be buying anymore.

Love my SRO except for its ghost dot in the sun thing. Maybe I should just keep it occluded.

I have I lot of different Holosun models and they have all worked well for me. I don't care for the 2MOA dots, so new ones I buy get the 6.

Somewhat early on in this journey I tried Vortex. After sending back the same optic a couple of times and using their vaunted warranty I didn't bother anymore.

The Sig Romeo 1 Pro has worked well for me. It is a nice optic. I don't have it on a gun that sees a lot of use though. Many of the people in my area run the on their match guns and like them. I think early on they had a reliability problem but that seems better now. Romeo Zero that came on my 365 XL was a complete piece of trash.

Havent tried any of the big enclosed optics because they are so damn ugly, but I am liking my EPS Carry so far.

I have 2 DPP's. One was my first dedicated match optic. Other than the shake awake burning out early on it functioned well through about 30,000 rounds. I bought a second for my POS Legion Carry and though I like some things about it a lot, I had forgotten how much I hate the brightness controls.

[Bergeron]

I think that the big ring on the ACSS Holosun combined with enclosed emitter and no dismount-enclosed emitter is a noticable and real step in making pistol optics more practical, over and above the step forward that RMR offered.

I still prefer a dot to the chevron, though.

I'm beginning to trust shake awake more than in the past.

[David S.]

I suspect an SRO (or possibly CHPWS Comp, if they check out) and EPS are going to be my 2023 purchases to replace my 507c's.

[MVS]

I’m stealing the idea of this from the LPVO thread in the carbine/rifle forum here.

This is my opinion, but I’m setting up the proverbial folding table and chair and I’m sitting here with a virtual cup of coffee asking if you’ll “change my mind”.

I asked Trijicon if they were planning to release an RMR that didn’t require removal to change the battery... in January 2020. The “we’re thinking about it” answer I got this week was the same answer I got back then. I have owned four RMRs. I’m down to one that’s about to be removed to the spare container. I will never buy another that requires removal for a battery change. Trijicon... The RMR was the thing that got pistol optics real-world cred. It will die if you don’t get your shit together.

The SRO is still rad. I’ve seen some copies of the SRO and I’m still an SRO fan. It’s awesome for what it does and I’m happy with both of mine. I have seen very minimal issues with SROs with other shooters and most of those issues were battery caps not tightened enough (though they do need to be “really” tight).

Leupold... The DPP is a decent optic but is not ideal in several ways. Get better.

Aimpoint... The ACRO P-2 is a great optic and if I could only have one gun and one optic the P-2 would be on that gun. Don’t rest on your laurels. This is where I’m a loyalist and a bit of a fanboy. I did a lot of research, testing, and I’m confident to say that Aimpoint is one of those companies that when you invest in quality, you get performance that when tested in a bunch of different areas, is better than the rest. My favorite rifle has an H2 and Aimpoint magnifier and my second favorite has a Comp M4. With all that said... There is more to be done with pistol optics. I think that Aimpoint has the right people in places to influence design and if they let those people do that we’ll see great stuff from them.

Bushnell... I’m kinda impressed so far with the RXS-250 but need to shoot it more. It needs some pretty proprietary screws, but they’ve been pretty generous with sending spares out.

EOTech... It’s very...very similar to the Bushnell. I have little experience but at least one person I very much respect has been running one and is happy. I think both the Bushnell and EOTech are probably made in the same factory and that means that my opinion of both so far is decent.

Steiner... The MPS has had mixed reviews here and a partner has experienced a broken optic that I confirmed. Steiner replaced it immediately and I think this optic has potential to solve some some traditional optic problems (glare being one). The jury is still out and as with other manufacturers there is still improvement, but it’s a great addition to the optic world and will influence development going forward.

Sig... The Romeo 1Pro is actually a pretty decent optic. I’ve taught a lot of classes with students running them and they seem to work really well. I’ve had a couple that got lazy about the shake awake, but with a quick beating they started running again and didn’t repeat the problem. They aren’ t my favorite but they make a decent pistol optic. THe Romeo 2 is something I’ve only played with for a few minutes without shooting. They want a lot of money for it and it’s not really an enclosed emitter so without a lot of time behind it I’m deferring to a truly enclosed for my preference...

Except the following, the manufacturers I haven’t mentioned I either have no experience with (that I remember currently) or I simply don’t like or care about because they are copies of better optics at a lower price point. I will pay for the better...

Then there’s Holosun.

People say they are stealing intellectual designs. So has everyone since Grubb in 1900. It’s not new.

They have been driving improvements over the past three years to include battery replacement without removing the optic on an RMR footprint, multiple reticles, solar power, multiple body metal compositions, effective compact optics, compact enclosed emitters, solar charging sights with no battery exchange/charging necessary, and based on what I saw this week, their thermal and NV rifle optics are just stupid awesome at an attainable (if not cheap) price.

Like a bunch of other products, the company is based in the US, and they happen to be in the area where I work. Their products are made in China like a lot of other products to include most of the phones we are using to look at this thread. If that’s a no-go for you I get it, and if you’re dedicated and consistent to a US or US-friendly only product then look somewhere else and be confident. If you are crap talking because it’s made in China as if that’s supposed to convince me to buy an RMR instead of a 507C I’m excited to debate.

Yes, Trijicon sued them a bit ago. When I look at the real reason I see a desperate company trying to stay relevant in the face of improved performance and better ingenuity. Let’s face it. Holosun isn’t stealing technology. That boat sailed a century ago. They’re just making things better. Other companies need to wake up and get in the race.

I have more Holosuns than any other optic. I’ve dropped my personal Holosun optic in testing from 3, 4, and twice from 5 feet (not Aaron Cowan but enough for me) to see how it performed. I’m still using it.

Thanks again for doing this. Obviously the sheer volume of what you see makes your observance's and opinion more worthwhile than someone like me who has been doing this a fairly long time but with low numbers.

[MDFA]

I've had several RMR's, 2 Holosuns, 2 DPP's and 3 Sig Romeo 1 Pros. One was sold with the slide it was mounted on, no issues with it. The 2 I have now on a M17 and M18 have not had an issue. Although I don't have many rounds through them yet. However as others have noted RMR's have reliability issues, bottom load battery etc. I'm not a huge fan of the tiny screw/battery tray setup on the Holosuns. DPP brightness controls are a PITA. So for me I prefer the Romeo 1 Pro. Large window without being a mailbox on top of the gun, no mounting and remounting to change battery's, rugged supplied screws, comes with a shield now, easy access brightness controls. So far I'm impressed with them and the features they offer. YMMV.

[Lon]

I travel a fair amount and have a small Daka pouch in my day pack with 1225, 1632, 1620 and 2032 batteries. Not infrequently I have had to change batteries away from home. How does that work if you have an RMR?

Exactly. Had to do that at work.

Trijicon (and Surefire, if you ask me) has gotten fat off .gov contracts. Which has led them to be lazy when it comes to updates and innovation. I’m not an engineer, but I find it hard to believe they could not combine the SRO and RMR somehow and come out with a Type 3 RMR.

They used to be the top dog around. Not anymore.

[t1tan]

I never considered Holosun until the 509T came out, got a couple of them, then the EPS and EPS Carry, now I pretty much plan a Holosun optic of some sort for every gun I own, I’m super impressed with what they're doing and my experience with them so far. Now at shot show they had the most exciting stuff out of the whole show to me, the DRS-NV and DRS-TH, AEMS in XL, Medium, and a pistol variant plus an AEMS magnifier, SCRS, and more.

[GearFondler]

I don't understand all the Trijicon hate... It's like all of you have forgotten that only a few years ago Trijicon released the RMR HRS with the nice coyote brown anodizing. What the fuck else do you really need?

[Lon]

I don't understand all the Trijicon hate... It's like all of you have forgotten that only a few years ago Trijicon released the RMR HRS with the nice coyote brown anodizing. What the fuck else do you really need?

We are a bunch of ungrateful bastards.

[1Rangemaster]

SoCalDep has pretty well hit it again. The community owes him thanks for his contributions. I came a little late to the party with an ACRO P1 I think over three years ago. I worked with it and obsessed a bit over the battery life. I have had a P-2 over a year now; same battery, not constantly on, but still my first choice. I am fairly committed to enclosed emitters, and my experience, less than some, follow the OP.
For work, I am currently running a Holosun EPS. Dropped it inadvertently last evening, all ok. I have a carry EPS on my personal 43X, and am pleased with it. I think Holosun checks a lot of boxes, and they are getting close to lapping the field. Other manufacturers really need to step it up.
So, I won’t try and change any one’s mind. I lament that Trijicon has not yet fielded an enclosed emitter and hope that changes soon. I also look forward to the C&H offerings.

[WDR]

If the 508Tx2 had a 5-7 MOA dot option, I'd be a lot more tempted to ditch my plan for an RM07. I'm just not sure I'm digging the circle dot. Unfortunately, I'm sorta locked in on the RMR cut... too bad Glock didn't bother bringing out the 26.5 MOS.

[HCM]

I travel a fair amount and have a small Daka pouch in my day pack with 1225, 1632, 1620 and 2032 batteries. Not infrequently I have had to change batteries away from home. How does that work if you have an RMR?

As someone who is stuck with SIG Romeo Zero/zero elite optics on work approved 365 series guns - fix it sticks. But it’s sub optimal.

[HCM]

I’m stealing the idea of this from the LPVO thread in the carbine/rifle forum here.

This is my opinion, but I’m setting up the proverbial folding table and chair and I’m sitting here with a virtual cup of coffee asking if you’ll “change my mind”.

I asked Trijicon if they were planning to release an RMR that didn’t require removal to change the battery... in January 2020. The “we’re thinking about it” answer I got this week was the same answer I got back then. I have owned four RMRs. I’m down to one that’s about to be removed to the spare container. I will never buy another that requires removal for a battery change. Trijicon... The RMR was the thing that got pistol optics real-world cred. It will die if you don’t get your shit together.

The SRO is still rad. I’ve seen some copies of the SRO and I’m still an SRO fan. It’s awesome for what it does and I’m happy with both of mine. I have seen very minimal issues with SROs with other shooters and most of those issues were battery caps not tightened enough (though they do need to be “really” tight).

Leupold... The DPP is a decent optic but is not ideal in several ways. Get better.

Aimpoint... The ACRO P-2 is a great optic and if I could only have one gun and one optic the P-2 would be on that gun. Don’t rest on your laurels. This is where I’m a loyalist and a bit of a fanboy. I did a lot of research, testing, and I’m confident to say that Aimpoint is one of those companies that when you invest in quality, you get performance that when tested in a bunch of different areas, is better than the rest. My favorite rifle has an H2 and Aimpoint magnifier and my second favorite has a Comp M4. With all that said... There is more to be done with pistol optics. I think that Aimpoint has the right people in places to influence design and if they let those people do that we’ll see great stuff from them.

Bushnell... I’m kinda impressed so far with the RXS-250 but need to shoot it more. It needs some pretty proprietary screws, but they’ve been pretty generous with sending spares out.

EOTech... It’s very...very similar to the Bushnell. I have little experience but at least one person I very much respect has been running one and is happy. I think both the Bushnell and EOTech are probably made in the same factory and that means that my opinion of both so far is decent.

Steiner... The MPS has had mixed reviews here and a partner has experienced a broken optic that I confirmed. Steiner replaced it immediately and I think this optic has potential to solve some some traditional optic problems (glare being one). The jury is still out and as with other manufacturers there is still improvement, but it’s a great addition to the optic world and will influence development going forward.

Sig... The Romeo 1Pro is actually a pretty decent optic. I’ve taught a lot of classes with students running them and they seem to work really well. I’ve had a couple that got lazy about the shake awake, but with a quick beating they started running again and didn’t repeat the problem. They aren’ t my favorite but they make a decent pistol optic. THe Romeo 2 is something I’ve only played with for a few minutes without shooting. They want a lot of money for it and it’s not really an enclosed emitter so without a lot of time behind it I’m deferring to a truly enclosed for my preference...

Except the following, the manufacturers I haven’t mentioned I either have no experience with (that I remember currently) or I simply don’t like or care about because they are copies of better optics at a lower price point. I will pay for the better...

Then there’s Holosun.

People say they are stealing intellectual designs. So has everyone since Grubb in 1900. It’s not new.

They have been driving improvements over the past three years to include battery replacement without removing the optic on an RMR footprint, multiple reticles, solar power, multiple body metal compositions, effective compact optics, compact enclosed emitters, solar charging sights with no battery exchange/charging necessary, and based on what I saw this week, their thermal and NV rifle optics are just stupid awesome at an attainable (if not cheap) price.

Like a bunch of other products, the company is based in the US, and they happen to be in the area where I work. Their products are made in China like a lot of other products to include most of the phones we are using to look at this thread. If that’s a no-go for you I get it, and if you’re dedicated and consistent to a US or US-friendly only product then look somewhere else and be confident. If you are crap talking because it’s made in China as if that’s supposed to convince me to buy an RMR instead of a 507C I’m excited to debate.

Yes, Trijicon sued them a bit ago. When I look at the real reason I see a desperate company trying to stay relevant in the face of improved performance and better ingenuity. Let’s face it. Holosun isn’t stealing technology. That boat sailed a century ago. They’re just making things better. Other companies need to wake up and get in the race.

I have more Holosuns than any other optic. I’ve dropped my personal Holosun optic in testing from 3, 4, and twice from 5 feet (not Aaron Cowan but enough for me) to see how it performed. I’m still using it.

I’ve heard rumors about Holosun possibly beginning manufacturing (or at least assembly) in the US.

Re Trijicon and Leupold - the NRA show is coming up in April and traditionally Trijicon has released things like the SRO at NRA rather than SHOT..

[BillSWPA]

If I want an optic with either a 6+ MOA dot or a circle-dot combination, and a good auto-adjust that adjusts quickly and correctly, what are my options other than a Trijicon RM07?

[maximus83]

I’ve heard rumors about Holosun possibly beginning manufacturing (or at least assembly) in the US.


US-made seems to be catching on. PA says they have upcoming US-made optics as well.

@SoCalDep (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=12912) great post. For those of us that are newer to dots--as with your others posts about screws and mount options--it helps navigate thru the confusing minefield of risky/subpar/frustrating optics and mounts.

Currently I have 2 RDS on pistols: an SRO, and a 507c. Which I got based on reviews/consensus on this site. Both are great, but looking to add an EPS carry when they're more available.

One sight that seems subpar, based on my sample of one: the RomeoZero Elite. It came with a new P365XL that had the taller suppressor height sights. Battery wears down too quickly, shake-awake is sporadic, control button hard to access, has to be removed to replace battery. The sight picture itself is decent, though a little busy with the circle-dot. I'll probably move that one to my P322 as a trainer only, don't trust it for carry.

[HCM]

US-made seems to be catching on. PA says they have upcoming US-made optics as well.

@SoCalDep (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=12912) great post. For those of us that are newer to dots--as with your others posts about screws and mount options--it helps navigate thru the confusing minefield of risky/subpar/frustrating optics and mounts.

Currently I have 2 RDS on pistols: an SRO, and a 507c. Which I got based on reviews/consensus on this site. Both are great, but looking to add an EPS carry when they're more available.

One sight that seems subpar, based on my sample of one: the RomeoZero Elite. It came with a new P365XL that had the taller suppressor height sights. Battery wears down too quickly, shake-awake is sporadic, control button hard to access, has to be removed to replace battery. The sight picture itself is decent, though a little busy with the circle-dot. I'll probably move that one to my P322 as a trainer only, don't trust it for carry.

The new R0 is about 50% brighter than the original. If you run it on highercsetting the batteries goes quick, even quicker if you run the circle dot. Haven’t seen shake awake issues yet. The control button is a carry over from the original design and sucks.

[Kanye Wyoming]

If I want an optic with either a 6+ MOA dot or a circle-dot combination, and a good auto-adjust that adjusts quickly and correctly, what are my options other than a Trijicon RM07?
Unfortunately, I think the only place they have that is the same place where they sell the Walther P99 M2 OR.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?55772-The-Walther-P99-Has-Come-to-an-End&p=1442074&viewfull=1#post1442074

[TCinVA]

The Acro P2 is beginning to roll out to specialized units and instructional staff in a few federal agencies. At some point the switch will get flipped and new recruits in those agencies will go through their respective academy training with the mounted optic. Manufacture in China is a deal breaker for those kinds of agencies.

The Acro makes sense for that kind of approach. Central armorers can affix mounting plates to MOS guns that have already been purchased, and can affix the optic. Neither mount is touched by the user. All they do is replace a battery. The battery life is sufficiently long that even that task isn't something they have to do very often, maybe once or twice a year depending on use.

Of course, in some of these agencies the people who tote guns often only shoot them at qualification time and in some there's little or no training happening outside the academy setting. So will they keep their batteries changed? I imagine there will be some sort of policy on that eventually.

Enclosed emitter, robust and simple mounting...that's the way institutional users are going to be moving.

We're out of alpha and beta testing and into version 1.0 of dots on pistols.

[BillSWPA]

I am just beginning to use pistol mounted optics, and have significantly less experience than most or all of you at this point. However, I find myself strongly preferring an optic that many of you have moved away from: a Trijicon RM07.

I have an RM07 and a Swampfox Liberty. I really like the 6.5 MOA, auto-adjust dot of the RM07. I can see the dot in anything from bright sunlight to low light. The only difficulty is looking from a darkened area into a well-lit area, in which case my backup irons become very easy to see.

The RM07 is also very well structured for IWB carry. The lens ends up right above my belt, where any additional printing is minimized or eliminated.

I tried carrying the RM07 during some very cold days last month, with wind chills of between -30F and -40F. When I came indoors, my glasses were badly fogged, bot the optic, which had been under my coat and sweater, was clear and usable.

The need to remove the optic for battery changes is not something I view as a deal-breaker as long as I can replace the battery preventatively long before it does, something that should be done regardless. If the stated battery life is reasonably accurate, then once every year or two should be fine. If the battery were to die unexpectedly while traveling, I can see that being a more difficult issue to address.

The Liberty has shown me that I do not like 3 MOA dots with no auto adjust. It works fine as long as I have time to adjust it. However, I need the absolute maximum brightness in bright sunlight. In low light, this setting is too bright to effectively use the dot, and makes the glass so difficult to see through that it would preclude using irons.

So, any optic with a small dot size and no auto adjust will not be high on my current list. Unfortunately that appears to rule out many choices.

[HCM]

I am just beginning to use pistol mounted optics, and have significantly less experience than most or all of you at this point. However, I find myself strongly preferring an optic that many of you have moved away from: a Trijicon RM07.

I have an RM07 and a Swampfox Liberty. I really like the 6.5 MOA, auto-adjust dot of the RM07. I can see the dot in anything from bright sunlight to low light. The only difficulty is looking from a darkened area into a well-lit area, in which case my backup irons become very easy to see.

The RM07 is also very well structured for IWB carry. The lens ends up right above my belt, where any additional printing is minimized or eliminated.

I tried carrying the RM07 during some very cold days last month, with wind chills of between -30F and -40F. When I came indoors, my glasses were badly fogged, bot the optic, which had been under my coat and sweater, was clear and usable.

The need to remove the optic for battery changes is not something I view as a deal-breaker as long as I can replace the battery preventatively long before it does, something that should be done regardless. If the stated battery life is reasonably accurate, then once every year or two should be fine. If the battery were to die unexpectedly while traveling, I can see that being a more difficult issue to address.

The Liberty has shown me that I do not like 3 MOA dots with no auto adjust. It works fine as long as I have time to adjust it. However, I need the absolute maximum brightness in bright sunlight. In low light, this setting is too bright to effectively use the dot, and makes the glass so difficult to see through that it would preclude using irons.

So, any optic with a small dot size and no auto adjust will not be high on my current list. Unfortunately that appears to rule out many choices.

It’s not a deal breaker for you, as an individual, or even a small enough local PD that has their own range. But for large state or federal institutions it is ABSOLUTELY a deal breaker.

At least one large federal agency is moving to the P-2 after attempts to have RMR Batteries changed in the field turned into fed exing guns to a national armory for battery changes. And then because it’s a duty gun after a battery change, you need to get to a range ASAP and verify zero has not shifted. In my experience most bottom load battery optics are pretty close if you were using proper torque values, but never exactly zeroed after battery changes.

Auto adjust in general and with RMRs in particular seems to work best with bigger dots.

[BillSWPA]

It’s not a deal breaker for you, as an individual, or even a small enough local PD that has their own range. But for large state or federal institutions it is ABSOLUTELY a deal breaker.

At least one large federal agency is moving to the P-2 after attempts to have RMR Batteries changed in the field turned into fed exing guns to a national armory for battery changes. And then because it’s a duty gun after a battery change, you need to get to a range ASAP and verify zero has not shifted. In my experience most bottom load battery optics are pretty close if you were using proper torque values, but never exactly zeroed after battery changes.

Auto adjust in general and with RMRs in particular seems to work best with bigger dots.

That makes perfect sense.

How are the P-2's being set so that they are visible in most light conditions? Pick 1 setting and hope for the best? Adjust throughout the day? Genuinely curious since I do see the advantages of not having to remove for battery changes as well as closed emitter.

[HCM]

That makes perfect sense.

How are the P-2's being set so that they are visible in most light conditions? Pick 1 setting and hope for the best? Adjust throughout the day? Genuinely curious since I do see the advantages of not having to remove for battery changes as well as closed emitter.

I’ll be honest, I hate auto adjust, and I would never use an auto adjust optic, didn’t allow me to shut it off or override it.

My agency is currently using Sigg optics with the RMR as a personally owned option. In general, we turn the optic up to max and back it off one or two clicks.

Generally running, the optic bright helps prevent issues with mistaking emitter reflections (aka ghost dots) for the actual dot. In low light, one generally needs illumination to identify targets, and it helps prevent the dock from being washed out when you activate your flashlight or WML.

In my experience, shooting a bright dot in low light without additional lighting is similar to doing occluded shooting in daylight. In other words, it’s still very workable. I don’t fiddle around with that brightness and I don’t recommend it to my people.

[SoCalDep]

That makes perfect sense.

How are the P-2's being set so that they are visible in most light conditions? Pick 1 setting and hope for the best? Adjust throughout the day? Genuinely curious since I do see the advantages of not having to remove for battery changes as well as closed emitter.

I’ll try to condense my thoughts and teaching points into a short version. The first part of that is to agree completely and enthusiastically with HCM.

When we’re running our classes we don’t have a low light portion because of time constrictions, scheduling, etc. I do a discussion and have the students verify their daylight settings, then give “homework” to find low light settings, and it’s much like HCM said. I’m sure I’ve stolen these phrases but I forget from whom, but you can’t dim daylight, and brighter is better. I go with a single setting that works in all environments but may not be ideal. It gives me confidence that I know what to expect.

The discussion I referenced earlier relies heavily on what I experienced taking the Orange County (CA) Sheriff’s Dept. pistol optic course. They have an indoor range and a limited amount of time for training. They wanted more - got what they got - and are making the best use of it they can. It’s excellent... really excellent training. The low light block is maybe 20 minutes, but it’s super effective at showing what works with a dot in changing lighting conditions. I encourage anyone in LE who is interested to reach out to them and if you can get into that class.

For my current carry guns with Holosun EPS Carry optics, that means all the way bright, then two steps down.

This is determined by running the optic in bright sunlight against white targets, then using a weapon light against a white target or T-shirt at a fairly close distance (I use 6-9 feet but some serious dudes at my department use about three feet so I can’t say it’s wrong) with a weapon-light if you use one. If not, then it’s all about ambient conditions.

I sometimes do the WML thing off duty and sometimes don’t. Today was a lot of driving and it was a no-WML day, but because we can’t dim daylight it was up all the way then down two. Tomorrow I’ll have a WML on my pistol. That will get all the way up and down two. If I didn’t have a WML and it was going to be cloudy all day or I was going out at night then it’s down three.

[GearFondler]

I’ll be honest, I hate auto adjust, and I would never use an auto adjust optic, didn’t allow me to shut it off or override it.

But isn't this opinion only based on current technology?
If a manufacturer ever gets it to function properly under all lighting conditions wouldn't you find that preferable?

[HCM]

But isn't this opinion only based on current technology?
If a manufacturer ever gets it to function properly under all lighting conditions wouldn't you find that preferable?

I’d still want an over ride option.

Same with flashlights.

No pre programmed sensor can be 100%.

Maybe Svetlana the Swedish AI bot in the ACRO P15 will get there but it won’t be in my lifetime.

[GearFondler]

I’d still want an over ride option.

Same with flashlights.

No pre programmed sensor can be 100%.

Maybe Svetlana the AI bot in the ACRO P15 will get there but it won’t be in my lifetime.Fair enough... And I would agree with still wanting a manual override just for peace of mind.

[Utm]

But isn't this opinion only based on current technology?
If a manufacturer ever gets it to function properly under all lighting conditions wouldn't you find that preferable?

I don't really see the advantage of auto adjust unless its just to save on battery life. I prefer to just set it 1 step down from the brightest and call it good

[GearFondler]

I don't really see the advantage of auto adjust unless its just to save on battery life. I prefer to just set it 1 step down from the brightest and call it goodThat's what I do with with my 507 & 508T because Holosun's auto-adjust on those is just dog shit. But my RM06 has that fucking 13 hr timer which is also dog shit and drives me nuts to the point that I rarely carry it anymore... I'm just a regular Joe who doesn't want to worry twice a day about the brightness setting on my fucking "premium" RDS.

[Utm]

That's what I do with with my 507 & 508T because Holosun's auto-adjust on those is just dog shit. But my RM06 has that fucking 13 hr timer which is also dog shit and drives me nuts to the point that I rarely carry it anymore... I'm just a regular Joe who doesn't want to worry twice a day about the brightness setting on my fucking "premium" RDS.

Its actually 16.5 hours. I just bump it up 1 and back down 1 upon waking and repeat before bed

[JCN]

Maybe Svetlana the Swedish AI bot in the ACRO P15 will get there but it won’t be in my lifetime.

Be careful! I heard Svetlana is actually a Russian plant….

Aaron Cowan also prefers running bright without auto adjust so it seems like people in the know have a consensus.

[Bergeron]

No matter how good Auto-Adjust ever gets, I don't how it'll handle the problem of shooting from a dim environment into a brighter one. The sensor would need some of way knowing itself the brightness of both the "local" dot environment and the "far afield" target environment.

Anyways, my personal observations from matches is that having dots is the expectation, and not running dots is only done as a purposeful affectation. It if my RMRs were suddenly enclosed, but I'd be even happier if the batteries were side or top load.

[MVS]

No matter how good Auto-Adjust ever gets, I don't how it'll handle the problem of shooting from a dim environment into a brighter one. The sensor would need some of way knowing itself the brightness of both the "local" dot environment and the "far afield" target environment.

Anyways, my personal observations from matches is that having dots is the expectation, and not running dots is only done as a purposeful affectation. It if my RMRs were suddenly enclosed, but I'd be even happier if the batteries were side or top load.

That was the first problem I noticed with my RMR years ago doing low light FOF. At that time I don't think there were other options. At the opposite end, I often find 2 down from the top sometimes hard to clearly see the target when shooting in the dark.

[maximus83]

The new R0 is about 50% brighter than the original. If you run it on highercsetting the batteries goes quick, even quicker if you run the circle dot. Haven’t seen shake awake issues yet. The control button is a carry over from the original design and sucks.

Good tip, I'll disable the circle dot and see how much battery life improves.

[Up1911Fan]

My first 3 RDS handguns were RMR's. I've since sold them and went all Holosun since maybe '19. I currently use the 507k, EPS Carry, 508T and 509T. I haven't had any issues with any of them. Come to think of it, I have a 507c on my Scorpion as well.

[BillSWPA]

At least based on what I have read here, those using larger dot sizes seem to be happier with auto adjust than those using smaller dot sizes. The larger dot provides a greater likelihood that the brightness level will be adequate to see the dot. My very small experience confirms that a large dot RMR seems to adjust well.

I completely agree that shooting from a darkened area to a well lit area does not result in good auto adjustment.

[jnc36rcpd]

SoCalDep, I also appreciate your sharing your expertise and experience on the forum. Being a guy who started with Betamax abd is still frosted that DVD's wrnt away, you've offered valuable insight.

[DamonL]

Here is some info on the Sig Romeo M17. It was built for the M17 handgun and DOD. Not commercially available yet, but it has a lot of features that are interesting. The mounting system is specific to the M17 handgun, so that would have to change if they want to adapt it to other guns in the commercial space.

https://soldiersystems.net/2023/01/24/sig-sauer-romeom17-red-dot-sight/

[DaBigBR]

I agree with everything SoCalDep said. Great thread.

I've probably got a half dozen RMRs and I am really conflicted on them. I have one HWS model that I'll keep because it's on a 19X, but the others have slowly made their way from my favorite and most shot guns, to backups and spares. The heavy use guns all have Holosuns (and one Steiner).

[WDR]

I have a G26 slide out being milled with an RMR footprint right now [snip] I might still end up with an RM07... But I have started wondering if I'm being too much of a curmudgeon and stick in the mud about Holosun on a pistol.

I did end up with an RM07. I have not zeroed, or live fired it yet, but I have zero regrets. Concealment wise, the RMR's work well for me. I almost wish my other two 3.25 MOA models were 6.5's, after a bit of dryfire. We'll see if that impression holds. The dot is certainly more "round" to my eyes, compared to the 3.25's starbursting a bit on me and my astigmatism.

If the Holosun EPS 6 MOA models would have mounted directly to an RMR footprint, I'd have likely given one a try. I really didn't want to go back to using an adapter plate. The 508T was interesting, but no option for a 5-6 MOA dot. I did see a bunch of folks having issues with recent EPS optics in threads on reddit and elsewhere (weird distortion of the dot being a big one), that may have influenced my decision. They also reported customer service issues. I'm sure growth is a factor in both problems.

Next week when Glock comes out with Gen 6 factory milled and mounted pistol optics that beat the pants off of everything else... We'll start the arms race all over again. :cool: Or Trijicon comes out with RMR Type 3 with all the bells and whistles everyone has been asking for, and then my regret kicks in.

[SoCalDep]

I did end up with an RM07. I have not zeroed, or live fired it yet, but I have zero regrets. Concealment wise, the RMR's work well for me. I almost wish my other two 3.25 MOA models were 6.5's, after a bit of dryfire. We'll see if that impression holds. The dot is certainly more "round" to my eyes, compared to the 3.25's starbursting a bit on me and my astigmatism.

If the Holosun EPS 6 MOA models would have mounted directly to an RMR footprint, I'd have likely given one a try. I really didn't want to go back to using an adapter plate. The 508T was interesting, but no option for a 5-6 MOA dot. I did see a bunch of folks having issues with recent EPS optics in threads on reddit and elsewhere (weird distortion of the dot being a big one), that may have influenced my decision. They also reported customer service issues. I'm sure growth is a factor in both problems.

Next week when Glock comes out with Gen 6 factory milled and mounted pistol optics that beat the pants off of everything else... We'll start the arms race all over again. :cool: Or Trijicon comes out with RMR Type 3 with all the bells and whistles everyone has been asking for, and then my regret kicks in.

The RMR is still a great optic that has a lot going for it. It’s also probably the most common/easily accessed common optic with a larger dot. I was a fan of the larger dot for a while and an RM02 6.5MOA dot is what I “started with” (not counting the Tasco Optima 2000) back in 2017.

I saw just a couple days ago on another forum someone asking what dot size to get and a bunch of people answering with their opinion. As Pat Rogers would say, that’s Clownshoes.

Everyone’s eyes are different. Giving your opinion to someone based on your eyes who doesn’t have your eyes is like telling someone who to be attracted to. It’s ignorant.

We can talk about what we’ve heard and what we’ve experienced to try to give people perspective, but I try to avoid saying “you need a big dot” or “you need a small dot”, especially for things like precision, speed, or distance. Those are constants. 10 yards is always 10 yards. A .20 split is what it is unless you’re so damn fast you go back in time.

Ultimately it’s what the individual prefers with their own vision. I had large dots for years. It got to the point they went on guns I didn’t shoot much... then a sims gun... then got traded. That’s not anyone but me, and my eyesight is messed up enough that I wouldn’t encourage anyone to make a decision based on what I prefer.

The RMR is, as you mentioned, a great optic for concealment, has lots of attributes, and is “the” optic for some serious dudes who do (not-basic) dude stuff. I just wish/hope Trijicon would engage like Maverick and come out with some more modern options. It’s like the original and main player is just sitting out the game.

[WDR]

The RMR is, as you mentioned, a great optic for concealment, has lots of attributes, and is “the” optic for some serious dudes who do (not-basic) dude stuff. I just wish/hope Trijicon would engage like Maverick and come out with some more modern options. It’s like the original and main player is just sitting out the game.

I too, wish Trijicon would push out a little bit. They tend to make some really robust and useable optics, and I think they could put out something awesome, if they were willing to stretch a bit. Other companies have been much quicker to react to customer/consumer desires, demands, complaints and problems. Aimpoint seemed to go from P-1 to P-2 rather quickly, once initial battery life problems were noticed, for example.

I'd love to see something similar to the EPS, maybe that still used the RMR footprint (because I'm invested there), though it seems like the cross bolt Aimpoint type mount is really gaining a lot of traction with "hard use" crowds. It'll be interesting to see if/when Trijicon brings out the rumored "RMR Type 3" and what it ends up looking like, and what features they give us. A slightly taller/bigger window ala SRO, but retaining the RMR durability would be awesome. As would seeing something enclosed.

Totally agree on dot size/type being a personal thing. I bought into the "you can always bloom a 3.25 dot to appear bigger" line of thinking, and ended with with two RM06's, which I have been pretty happy with so far. The dots do "bloom" a bit with my very slight astigmatism, looking more like comets or star bursts sometimes, but I've been able to use them both at speed, and slow fire without issue. I really wanted to look through both sizes when I was setting up my first gun, but for whatever reason ( probably "covid") the 6.5 models were very sparse locally at the time, so I had to dive in, going straight to the 3.25. For whatever reason, the 6.5 dot appears more round to my eyes, using the auto-adjust setting, in various light. I have not tinkered with it enough to say the auto is better on this one, than my 3.25's, but the larger dot is a bit easier to pick up, even if its on a dimmer setting.

Holosuns circle/dot seem too "busy" for me, but I've only looked through them, not shot while using them. I had an EOtech on an AR for quite a while, and it wasn't as bad, but the circle was larger, the center dot smaller, and rifle/carbine cheekweld meant I wasn't really "hunting" for a dot, like you would with a pistol. I'm not sold on big circles as being useful, other than for speed on larger targets. I may eventually try one on a .22 pistol I've got in the works.

I'm 100% happy with my decision. Previous positive experiences with Trijicon/RMR played into that. Being less of a "mailbox" profile was important to me, as I'm a skinny dude without a ton of waist space to work with to avoid printing, and I've been satisfied with how I can conceal the shape of the RMR. Enclosed or not isn't a deal breaker for me, as these things live under my shirts/vests/jackets 99% of the time, though I do appreciate the idea that enclosed is probably a better mouse trap.

[Erick Gelhaus]

When we’re running our classes we don’t have a low light portion because of time constrictions, scheduling, etc. ...

The discussion I referenced earlier relies heavily on what I experienced taking the Orange County (CA) Sheriff’s Dept. pistol optic course. They have an indoor range and a limited amount of time for training. They wanted more - got what they got - and are making the best use of it they can. It’s excellent... really excellent training. The low light block is maybe 20 minutes, but it’s super effective at showing what works with a dot in changing lighting conditions. I encourage anyone in LE who is interested to reach out to them and if you can get into that class.
...
This is determined by running the optic in bright sunlight against white targets, then using a weapon light against a white target or T-shirt at a fairly close distance (I use 6-9 feet but some serious dudes at my department use about three feet so I can’t say it’s wrong) with a weapon-light if you use one. If not, then it’s all about ambient conditions.

I sometimes do the WML thing off duty and sometimes don’t. ...
When I schedule my PMO and PMO instructor classes, I adjust day 1's hours so we can shoot with the dots in diminished, low light. A bit of flashlight work is included.

Whether the pistol has a light on it or not, I point in on a light colored wall and Illuminate the spot with a handheld or WML. I adjust the dot to where it is just visible over the light. I leave it there. The only exception being AZ in the summer.


But isn't this opinion only based on current technology?
If a manufacturer ever gets it to function properly under all lighting conditions wouldn't you find that preferable?
Since this was about Auto Adjust ... No. An optic that can shoot from dark into light and a visa versa is needed. Unless a dual/tri sensor version is created, I wouldn't be interested.

Holosun's competition optic looks interesting, but I'll most likely look at the EPS/EPS-C to replace my existing open emitter holosuns.

I look forward to seeing what the C&H optics will or won't do, where they are from, etc. Without any existing history, it may take the brand a while to make inroads if they are reliable and capable.

[Archer1440]

I look forward to seeing what the C&H optics will or won't do, where they are from, etc. Without any existing history, it may take the brand a while to make inroads if they are reliable and capable.


Unless the innards are radically different, we already have a pretty good clue. The Lucid E7 and the C&H “Duty” appear to be the exact same externally (except for branding), and Lucid sources from China. The specific suppliers are a matter of public record, as this is information reported by CPB, including import quantities.

Both also have a remarkable similarity to the Swampfox “Kraken”, though that item has some external styling differences.

Both CHPWS and Lucid have announced similar timelines for availability of their respective closed emitter products.

[Archer1440]

I saw just a couple days ago on another forum someone asking what dot size to get and a bunch of people answering with their opinion. As Pat Rogers would say, that’s Clownshoes.

Everyone’s eyes are different. Giving your opinion to someone based on your eyes who doesn’t have your eyes is like telling someone who to be attracted to. It’s ignorant.

We can talk about what we’ve heard and what we’ve experienced to try to give people perspective, but I try to avoid saying “you need a big dot” or “you need a small dot”, especially for things like precision, speed, or distance. Those are constants. 10 yards is always 10 yards. A .20 split is what it is unless you’re so damn fast you go back in time.


Very well put.

[23JAZ]

I saw just a couple days ago on another forum someone asking what dot size to get and a bunch of people answering with their opinion. As Pat Rogers would say, that’s Clownshoes.

Everyone’s eyes are different. Giving your opinion to someone based on your eyes who doesn’t have your eyes is like telling someone who to be attracted to. It’s ignorant.

We can talk about what we’ve heard and what we’ve experienced to try to give people perspective, but I try to avoid saying “you need a big dot” or “you need a small dot”, especially for things like precision, speed, or distance. Those are constants. 10 yards is always 10 yards. A .20 split is what it is unless you’re so damn fast you go back in time.

Ultimately it’s what the individual prefers with their own vision. I had large dots for years. It got to the point they went on guns I didn’t shoot much... then a sims gun... then got traded. That’s not anyone but me, and my eyesight is messed up enough that I wouldn’t encourage anyone to make a decision based on what I prefer.


Agreed. My eyes are weird. If I use a single dot, I see more of a coma or a starburst. But with the Holosun circle dot everything is crisp and sharp. Most people say it’s too much clutter but for me the circle/dot works!

[GJM]

The EPS/EPS Carry offers so many potential advantages that I am interested in getting feedback from as many as possible to see how they are holding up in terms of durability, how long the battery last and generally are they working well.

[JCN]

I’m sitting here with a virtual cup of coffee asking if you’ll “change my mind”.


The RMR is still a great optic that has a lot going for it. It’s also probably the most common/easily accessed common optic with a larger dot. I was a fan of the larger dot for a while and an RM02 6.5MOA dot is what I “started with” (not counting the Tasco Optima 2000) back in 2017.

I saw just a couple days ago on another forum someone asking what dot size to get and a bunch of people answering with their opinion. As Pat Rogers would say, that’s Clownshoes.

Everyone’s eyes are different. Giving your opinion to someone based on your eyes who doesn’t have your eyes is like telling someone who to be attracted to. It’s ignorant.

We can talk about what we’ve heard and what we’ve experienced to try to give people perspective, but I try to avoid saying “you need a big dot” or “you need a small dot”, especially for things like precision, speed, or distance. Those are constants. 10 yards is always 10 yards. A .20 split is what it is unless you’re so damn fast you go back in time.

Ultimately it’s what the individual prefers with their own vision. I had large dots for years. It got to the point they went on guns I didn’t shoot much... then a sims gun... then got traded. That’s not anyone but me, and my eyesight is messed up enough that I wouldn’t encourage anyone to make a decision based on what I prefer.


Okay since you prefaced this with a “change my mind” I’ll try. I pretty much agree with what you said about the different optics so it’s not much of a dissent.

But to address the dot size recommendations…

I think that it’s okay to make dot size recommendations based on the assumption that people have not fucked up vision and to say “if you have fucked up vision this may not apply to you.”

Just like normal visual standards of beauty would have a different emphasis to someone who couldn’t see... but for most seeing folks there are some general trends of beauty with symmetry, etc.

Small dots sometimes don’t get bright enough depending on the manufacturer and can be hard to pick out dynamically in bright sunlight. So for pure action, small may be a detriment.

Similarly, the larger / closer the target the more advantage a larger reticle has. Like for 10 yards and in, a 32 MOA works great for super rapid acquisition and makes a small window into a virtual larger window as you can track with the center dot off the window by virtue of the 32 MOA ring.

So everything is a compromise. Out to 50 yard A zones I’ll still prefer 5-7 MOA for the compromise. And use the top of the dot (or bottom of the dot depending on the ammo ballistics) at distance for precision.

But with the caveat that non-seeing people might have a different experience.

Okay, not really earth shattering since I pretty much agree with you.



The EPS/EPS Carry offers so many potential advantages that I am interested in getting feedback from as many as possible to see how they are holding up in terms of durability, how long the battery last and generally are they working well.

My EPS carry has some of the worst parallax out of any of my optics. So I’m hoping I got a bad one… but that’s something I’m going to pay closer attention to in the future.

[Mike C]

The EPS/EPS Carry offers so many potential advantages that I am interested in getting feedback from as many as possible to see how they are holding up in terms of durability, how long the battery last and generally are they working well.

Out of the two carry models, (one MRS and one 2 MOA, as well as one full-size MRS model) I am liking mine. Round count is still really low but no parallax issue in mine and the dots are more crisp than the 407/507K's I have and have had. The window stays noticeably cleaner and is piece of cake to wipe clear.

Mine are on original battery. My oldest one is only about 1 1/2 months or so maybe a bit older. Batteries were shipped in optic which so the fact they are still going makes me hopeful they'll last. The solar works as advertised, auto cut off as well and the optic snaps on immediately. I'm not crazy about the auto brightness adjustment as it doesn't feel bright enough but it does ramp up and down rather quickly. The foot print is really great and does not cause printing any more than a 407/507K model in snug clothing. So far I am very happy. I hope that the competition model is as good, at this point I find myself wanting one and have been happy with the first full of holosuns I have had.

[MVS]

The EPS/EPS Carry offers so many potential advantages that I am interested in getting feedback from as many as possible to see how they are holding up in terms of durability, how long the battery last and generally are they working well.

Won't be able to help a lot there. My EPS Carry is on my NPE/work gun that doesn't get a lot of rounds through it. (365XL) I try to shoot it first every session but only a limited amount. Since putting the EPS carry on I have took it out 3 times for a whopping total of 106 rounds. So far though, I really like it. When I end up putting a full size EPS on something, it should get more of a workout.

[zaitcev]

The Lucid E7 and the C&H “Duty” appear to be the exact same externally (except for branding), and Lucid sources from China.
Both also have a remarkable similarity to the Swampfox “Kraken”, though that item has some external styling differences.
The industry is springing up. Add Cyelee BEAR to the list of Kraken clones.

Reminds me how everyone in Spain and China copied Mauser C96 in 1920s, and then copied each other.

But we have the Internet now. If someone's locking lugs are soft, we'll know very quickly.

[CS Tactical]

Just a heads up, a new compact option will appear... :cool:

[HeavyDuty]

Just a heads up, a new compact option will appear... :cool:

What footprint?

[CS Tactical]

What footprint?


Shield RMS

[BobM]

Just a heads up, a new compact option will appear... :cool:

Hopefully the first letter starts with A

[joshs]

Hopefully the first letter starts with A

I'll take any decent option not made in China.

[23JAZ]

Brand new EPS Carry MRS Red shake awake is in-op. Shuts off after 10 minutes of no movement then I have to press a button to turn it back on. This is right out of the box. All I did was change the battery to a Duracell. Called Holosun they walked me through a reset procedure and 10 minutes after we hung up I had to press a button to turn it on. Finally just shut the shake awake off and haven’t had any issues but going to send it back to Holosun. Not that big a deal I can just put my 507K back on but still very disappointing.

[HeavyDuty]

I’m beginning to think having a spare Holosun around might be prudent.

[HCM]

I’m beginning to think having a spare Holosun around might be prudent.

That’s true of any serious use optic.

[Tokarev]

That’s true of any serious use optic.Killed a Trijicon SRO and a Steiner MPS with mild use. Have not yet had a Holosun die.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[HCM]

Killed a Trijicon SRO and a Steiner MPS with mild use. Have not yet had a Holosun die.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

Had an original Holosun 407c die. But I’ve also killed an RMR, a DPP and had an SRO that would not turn on when new right out of the box.

[1Rangemaster]

That’s true of any serious use optic.

True for any serious use equipment...

[Erick Gelhaus]

The 7th edition of Cowan pistol mounted optics white paper is out.

https://www.sagedynamics.org/_files/ugd/7dc128_6377087e72264cd18dbcb04eea4686ce.pdf

[DamonL]

Its interesting to see he added the “Steiner EPS” to his durable optic list of the RMR, P2, and 508T/509T. Did he mean Holosun EPS or Steiner MPS? Or both? Looking at his chart, I think Steiner because it has been out longer.

[RennBaer]

I wonder how many people complaining about auto-adjust have had a chance to try out Holosun's next-generation of auto-adjust that comes on the newer SCS models. It uses multiple light sensors taking in information from different directions and is smart enough to properly adjust for weapon mounted lights being used in dark areas, or for aiming into a lighted area from a dark area. It also adjusts so quickly to changing light conditions that the actual brightness transitions are nearly imperceptible. Unfortunately, it's limited to the SCS lineup for the time being.

[Tokarev]

Cyelee Bull Pro review


https://youtu.be/6US_s7l6Rz0?si=fmgwAMO2zxPGkP0x

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk