Glock vs Shadow Systems

[witchking777]

Hi there. I currently have a Gen 5 Glock 17 with Ameriglo Agent sights that is my EDC piece. It has about 4,000 rounds through it with one malfunction caused by purposely limp wristing it. I'm looking to go the red dot/comp route with either a SS DR920P, SS War Poet XR920 w/ the new SS comp, or a Glock 45 MOS with either the Agency 417 dual port comp, ZEV comp, or the Radian Ramjet w/Afterburner. Does anyone have any experience with these combos? The red dot will be a Holosun 407co x2. I was excited about the SS but I've been reading about a lot of issues with FTF, FTE, etc. For that kind of money a pistol shouldn't be having issues IMO, especially since it will be my carry piece. I'm also looking at the new Glock trigger as well. I will also get a CHPWS plate for the Glock as well. Thanks!

[Biggy]

FYI, Shadow Systems also offers their new Foundation Series line of pistols. The Foundation Series of pistols starts at an MSRP of $679 which is about $350 less than the typical cost of the MR series of pistols. Also, like the Timney Glock Gen 4 and 5 triggers, I am pretty sure Glock could offer a GEN 4 version of their new performance OEM trigger if they wanted to, and that would be compatible with the Shadow Systems Gen 4 type pistol.
As for any Shadow Systems quality issues, yes they have some just like every other manufacturer, Glock included. The thing is online for instance you will usually hear about the bad much more than the good. The main thing to me is if I got a new pistol with issues, is that the manufacturer fix it promptly and fix it right the first time. Not making any excuses for any manufacturer, but I think because of COVID and the overall work ethic of the current work force in our Country, *good* workers are harder to find and retain, especially for a growing company and overall quality / quality control has slipped across the board. I have seen this in all kinds of products.

[jlw]

i can't help you with the comp question, but I won't try to sway your opinion on that issue.

The primary advantage of Shadow Systems is their universal mounting system. Their systems provides for a LOT of thread engagement with the mounting screws. You also won't have the cost of swapping sights or needing a plate; so, that mitigates the cost difference.

The difference in frames is a matter of personal preference. The SS does give you the option of swapping backstraps and changing the grip angle.

My MR920 has been completely reliable with Glock mags although it did come with a recoil spring that had to be immediately replaced. It doesn't like feeding the first round of a full mag from slidelock with the Magpul mags.

[Biggy]

Here are a few Vid reviews on the SS Foundation series pistols.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCXHie3e0AY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XIoLmr2C5w&t=13s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvs1NhRc_SU

[raydoctor]

My eyes are aging and I wanted a fairly cheap way to dip my toes into the RDS pool. I did a little research and recently picked up a SS MR920 (Foundation Series) due to it's direct mounting system jlw mentioned. Bass Pro had a sale on the Holosun HS507C so I opted to go that route for an optic. The fit an finish on the pistol is good in my opinion. I only have about 600 rounds through the pistol (all Blazer Brass). I've had one stoppage (second mag through the pistol with the provided Magpul magazines).....after which I swapped the stock SS mag catch out for a Glock OEM and started using Glock OEM 15 rounders with no stoppages or issues since.

[David S.]

I spent a couple months with a DP920 and a MR920L early last year and generally liked them OK, but ultimately decided they didn't offer anything over CZ P-07/09 I was previously running. My biggest hangup with the gun was that they went away from the original Glock backplate design, so that it wouldn't take a striker control device.

As JLW mentioned above, the best part of the gun is its optic mounting system. Additionally, the grip texture, undercuts, decent suppressor sights, and other features make it a good value compared to a $600 Glock, if those features suit you.

In the scant couple thousand rounds, I didn't have any malfunctions after the 50 round "break in period" that their manual says to expect. I did see another student in a Presscheck Consulting No Fail Pistol class struggle with reliability issues shooting an SS gun with some sort of aftermarket comp. (I don't remember the details, but it was before the factory comp'd guns came out) I wouldn't be too concerned about their factory comp.

[Biggy]

Shadow Systems take on *The why behind a break in period on their pistols*, and their Foundation Series pistols

https://youtu.be/r9xyl7TMHQs

https://www.recoilweb.com/shadows-systems-foundation-series-pistols-best-affordable-gucci-glock-hands-on-review-177007.html

[1Rangemaster]

witchking777 , I can offer a couple of insights using a G45MOS with a Radian comp/barrel. We have one at work, with a Steiner MPS on the slide for evaluation. My experience is the barrel is very accurate and the comp allowed me to follow the dot on recoil. I did go to the lighter recoil spring to see how it would perform.
Disclosure: I’m a Glock owner and carrier. I have no experience with the other company other than I have read of functioning issues. Every maker experiences some bumps, but the Glock has a lot of support surrounding it. JMO, but I’d think you’d have fewer issues with it than the other.
With the positive reports on the the Glock “Performance Trigger”, I could see setting up a Glock with the comp of your choice, etc. By policy we don’t run comps on our carry pistols. But a Radian barrel/comp, red dot and new trigger is something I’d look forward to running.

[gtmtnbiker98]

I issue the G45 MOS as a duty sidearm and cannot speak higher of a pistol from a duty/carry standpoint. Shadow Systems tends to cater to those who like to play Barbie with their weapons.

[Oukaapie]

My biggest hangup with the gun was that they went away from the original Glock backplate design, so that it wouldn't take a striker control device.

This is the reason why my polymer choice is Glock. That margin for safety is huge for me.

[witchking777]

Thank you for all of the insightful replies! After careful consideration I am leaning towards the G45 with the Radian barrel/comp, a Holosun 407co x2 w/a steel CHPWS or FCD plate , and the new Glock performance trigger.

[msstate56]

Shadow Systems take on *The why behind a break in period on their pistols*, and their Foundation Series pistols

https://youtu.be/r9xyl7TMHQs

https://www.recoilweb.com/shadows-systems-foundation-series-pistols-best-affordable-gucci-glock-hands-on-review-177007.html

After over 1,000 rounds, our sample was still not “broken in” apparently. I wouldn’t ask anyone to waste money on a Shadow Systems. I think their early guns worked and created the buzz, but their current guns aren’t worth the gun rug they ship them with.

Just buy the G45

[Biggy]

Most of the feedback I have heard about Shadow Systems pistols has been positive. Both my MR920 and MR920L that I got around a year and a half ago have been 100% reliable since day one and round one. I know their sales has really exploded in the last few years, so there quality control could have slipped some recently, I don’t know. I would also not be surprised if some of the pistols that have reliability issues were dicked with in one way or another my the original or secondary owners, just like with Glocks. Also, I kind of take anything I hear on the internet with a grain of salt.

[msstate56]

Most of the feedback I have heard about Shadow Systems pistols has been positive. Both my MR920 and MR920L that I got around a year and a half ago have been 100% reliable since day one and round one. I know their sales has really exploded in the last few years, so there quality control could have slipped some recently, I don’t know. I would also not be surprised if some of the pistols that have reliability issues were dicked with in one way or another my the original or secondary owners, just like with Glocks. Also, I kind of take anything I hear on the internet with a grain of salt.

My sample was brand new, hand selected, Agency T&E gun. It was absolutely brand new off the assembly line, with nothing touched on the gun prior to, during, or after our evaluation. It was MY suggestion to test. I wanted to like it. It literally could not get through 2 full magazines without a malfunction. Over 5 different shooters and multiple new, factory ammunition types. Both Glock and Magpul provided mags.

[Biggy]

My sample was brand new, hand selected, Agency T&E gun. It was absolutely brand new off the assembly line, with nothing touched on the gun prior to, during, or after our evaluation. It was MY suggestion to test. I wanted to like it. It literally could not get through 2 full magazines without a malfunction. Over 5 different shooters and multiple new, factory ammunition types. Both Glock and Magpul provided mags.

I can relate to that, as I felt the same way about a new Chevy truck I bought back in 2000 that had issues from day one.
So no more Chevy or GM stuff for me, even though I know they don’t all have issues.

[mizer67]

My DR920 was new and stock. The second one I got back from SS was also stock.

Neither could do sub 8" for 10 rounds at 25 yards. They ran though, mostly although I only ever used Glock mags.

My personal experience is they can't articulate any quality standards and the precision of the frames, barrel and slide machining leave something to be desired for critical areas. It's also really difficult to get CS to respond.

Glock can keep it's tolerances down to .001" over decades for those same points.

[L-2]

Post 11,
I generally like your potential configuration.
I will say, do consider the Holosun SCS instead of the 407C-X2, as the SCS won't need a mounting plate; only comes with a green-colored reticle; and gives three reticle choices: donut-of-death (looks like an Eotech reticle to me) with dot in the center; dot only; or donut only.

I'll also point out, I see/hear Shadow Systems is coming out with its own screw-on compensator, should you want to go with Shadow Systems as was initially being considered.

I'm a Glock-type-of-guy, too, and considered trying a Shadow Systems MR920, but then I calmed down and realize I've got other places to spend ~$1000 right now. I've already got two G19Gen5 guns; one's a MOS with a Holosun SCS. I've also got a G17Gen5 and a G34gen4, so I'm well-covered with the full-size grip Glocks, too (but nope, don't have a G45).

Although tempting at times, I just don't buy everything Glock sells to try them out. I'll let others do the testing and reviews; read about them on forums like Pistol-Forum, then probably think about it for a year or longer.

[jlw]

Neither could do sub 8" for 10 rounds at 25 yards. They ran though, mostly although I only ever used Glock mags.



Interesting. I have seen some other complaints of malfunction issues, but I have not previously seen any accuracy concerns. Mine is a friggin' laser beam when I do my part.

[mizer67]

Interesting. I have seen some other complaints of malfunction issues, but I have not previously seen any accuracy concerns. Mine is a friggin' laser beam when I do my part.

My first gun had several issues at play. The second one's slide to frame fit was better, but the barrel to slide fit at the hood and bottom locking lug was bad. I measured the play at the hood at ten times what Glock's factory dimensions are for my Gen 4 guns and even worse compared to Gen 5's barrel fitment.

I could've re-barreled that gun and it would've likely tightened it up some, but at that point I was money ahead to trade it on a Gen 5 G17 MOS, so that's the path I took. Fortunately I hadn't paid close to list price on the DR920. The G17.5 (box stock) can reliably hold the X ring at 25 yards for 10 rounds, as long as you count line breaks.....with the same load the DR920 sprays like a shotgun.

[maximus83]

Just buy the G45

^That.

When testing pistols for a new platform, I tested a couple of my range's well broken-in SS rentals against my new G45. The ones I tested had no reliability issues. And they do have a nice optic mounting solution and a few of the extras (sights, grip frame with an angle I'd prefer). But I shot the G45 as well, or better. It's proven reliable over a large number of users. While some SS shooters like their pistols and have good reliability, IMO the number of reports of issues is disconcertingly high and lots of people are getting rid of them. That's compounded by repeated mentions of slow or poor service.

In the end, the G45 shot as well or better than an equivalent sized SS, for me. And is proven more reliable. If this is a carry gun, I'd get the G45 and spend the effort to customize it for optics, sights, etc.

[RAM Engineer]

Hmmm...Buy a new Honda Civic, or buy pimped out Civic slammed with extreme camber, a big fartbox muffler, and a Venom paint job.

Gosh, I don't know what the wise choice is...

[LockedBreech]

I myself considered the Shadow Systems Foundation series, as I'm a huge fan of Glock and, with the exception of an M&P Shield Plus, all my primaries are Glocks. My thought had been hey, it's a Glock with a better trigger and grip angle. My brother's agency was eyeballing them for the same reason.

However, my research soured me on them. Far more reported stoppages than with Glocks. I think that Shadow Systems has successfully managed to produce an improved Glock design. What it appears they have not managed to do is produce a level of quality control equivalent to Glock, which, outliers aside, generally exhibits outstanding consistency and quality control, especially at the price point.

So I'm back in my Gen 5s and am likely to stay there for a very long time if not forever. I have a Gen 5 17, 19, and 22, and I think it would be nearly impossible to improve upon them for service-size 9mm or .40 pistols, at least for me. For all the press the grip angle gets, I've easily enough learned to slightly angle my wrist on the draw, and I think it's a reasonable exchange for probably a perfect self-defense trigger (very debatable, I know), great accuracy, moderate recoil, and it just plain runs. I know that my local agency which has changed to Glock 45 MOS has also been very satisfied.

This quote is beaten to death but that's because it's true: It's the Indian, not the arrow. 9 times out of 10 you're better off with 1000 rounds of practice through a beat-up police trade Glock with dim night sights than you are with 500 rounds through a Gucci'd out race gun.

[mcgivro]

Most of the feedback I have heard about Shadow Systems pistols has been positive. Both my MR920 and MR920L that I got around a year and a half ago have been 100% reliable since day one and round one. I know their sales has really exploded in the last few years, so there quality control could have slipped some recently, I don’t know. I would also not be surprised if some of the pistols that have reliability issues were dicked with in one way or another my the original or secondary owners, just like with Glocks. Also, I kind of take anything I hear on the internet with a grain of salt.

Consider yourself lucky. I have received a slew of complaints about their performance/reliability.

[ASpear]

Love all of my shadow systems.. DR elite with timney trigger ,XR and MR elite with threaded barrel and comp
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3333451210134087&set=a.780811545398079&type=3&mibextid=cr9u03