Is a MP5 Clone Necessary? Or Does Something that an AR9 Doesn’t?

[Screwball]

So, I sold a few things and have some extra disposable income. Feeling like I should buy another gun. [emoji1787] I’ve been tossing an AP5 back and forth for some time.

When I first moved up to ME, my first investment was a 11.5” AR pistol (5.56). This is currently running my Griffin Bushwhacker 46 and is a go to firearm. I followed that up with a PSA AK-P. Also got a M1 Carbine on my C&R (middle finger to NJ). I have a braced TAC-14 and a D/I AR45 that I eventually plan on SBRing.

About a half year after starting work up here, we switched to 9mm Glocks. When it was getting closer, I built another AR pistol using a Stern 9mm kit (6” barrel). Made it so it would take my Dead Air Odessa fitted under the forend. Having a source of 19 magazines, as well as larger magazines from my 17 and 34, Glock magazines were an obvious choice. I also did pick up a KelTec SUB-2000 that takes 19 magazines for times where I didn’t want to take the AR pistol with me (did the MCARBO upgrades, and very happy with it). I do like options.

I also have a 9mm CX4, which is paired with my 92. I might look into threading, but it’s just another carbine. Won’t sell it, but isn’t something I shoot a lot.

So considering all that, and the fact that I have an investment in Glock magazines… is a MP5 clone worth the costs? I’d probably get like a half dozen magazines (likely just do MKE magazines), likely a brace but I might consider SBRing it for the John McClane look. I likely would get a 3-lug adapter for the Griffin so I can run it on there. No lights. No red dot. Might do some small upgrades, but not going too far from the traditional design. If I get bored, maybe a binary trigger.

I know zero about roller delayed guns. Closest thing I had was a GSG5 (.22 clone that I had with a MP5 stock set). People seem to like them and they don’t seem to fail a lot. HK slap is “cool.” But shy of that… I don’t know much about them. If I get one, I’d probably look into seeing if any parts needed to be swapped. I do get how the double feed magazines are easier to load, just I don’t have any issues with loading Glock magazines.

If I don’t get one, I’ll probably get a Fulton A1 AR as I wanted another 20”. Was tossing around a LCP Max or the Glock 47, but can always get one. Can’t say the same if Biden decides Turkish gun imports are too dangerous.

[JCN]

JP5 uses Glock mags… just sayin….

[Sig_Fiend]

If you've ever truly wanted an MP5, IMO, nothing else will scratch that itch.

You'll hear both positive and negative feedback. Some of the positive will elevate it to an infallible, almost mystical status. The negative will deride the platform as archaic and easily outclassed by everything else on the market. The truth is somewhere in between. I think of the MP5 (and all clones) as basically the lever gun of PCC's. Lever guns are sometimes seen as archaic but, honestly for some uses they still work just fine. Old school cool that is well built and still useful, I mean who wouldn't want that, even if only for a fun range gun? ;)

The MP5 platform tends to be very simple, easy to maintain, very light recoil, very accurate, and a joy to shoot. They're like driving an older analog car with a manual gearbox; less comfortable but more enjoyable and more soul. They're also highly modular and can be configured countless ways. They are, however, not all perfect. Some clones will have issues. Often these issues seem to be with feeding, extraction, and ejection. Sometimes the bolt / bolt head is the issue. Sometimes the extractor or extractor spring. Just be aware, if buying a clone, it may still need some tweaking before it runs like a sewing machine. Once they do, however, they're a joy to shoot.

Since you mentioned not doing many modifications, I'd say something like the Century AP5 is definitely worth considering. Half of the draw for an AR-based PCC is the modularity and increased aftermarket offerings, so that sounds like a moot point in your case.

[fly out]

So, is an SP5 fun for a left-hander, long term? Any southpaws have significant time with one?

[O4L]

I have a friend that has a MP5 clone (roller delayed) and a CMMG Banshee (radial delayed) that takes Glock mags.

He slightly prefers the MP5 clone and I much prefer the AR platform of the Banshee but I'm an AR fan.

Either of them are out of my price range but I sure do enjoy getting to shoot his now and then. Oh and he has suppressors for both so... [emoji16]

Sent from my LM-Q720 using Tapatalk

[paherne]

Only one of those guns can you do the HK slap on. Just sayin'. You've got a Beretta 92, so you're half-way to a Christmas movie load out.

[Bucky]

Only one of those guns can you do the HK slap on. Just sayin'. You've got a Beretta 92, so you're half-way to a Christmas movie load out.

Less than 1/2 way. You’d still need to AUG-ment the collection. :p

Might also need to “squeeze” something else in, too.

[Hambo]

Sig_Fiend is right on. A pistol with a light and a stendo will do everything an MP5 will except be an MP5. If I really needed a short, suppressed gun today it would be an SBR 300BLK, but an SP5 or clone is in my future just because I used them and I'm nostalgic. The safety on the SP5 is easier to use than I recall on the MP5, and that's a good thing.

Just buy one.

[Super77]

For what an MP-5 costs I’d rather have a JP-5.

[GJM]

I would rather compete with a JP5 and defend myself with an HK SP5 or K. No idea how good clones are, but there may never be a better time to get an HK.

99972

99973

[JCN]

I would rather compete with a JP5 and defend myself with an HK SP5 or K. No idea how good clones are, but there may never be a better time to get an HK.

I know you’re not a fan, but didn’t SOCOM adopt MPX?

I would rather defend myself with an MPX than an MP5 for a number of reasons.

With a short suppressor, it’s a nice package.

99976

And compete with a JP5.

[HCM]

If you want an MP5 clone /because MP5 the AP5 is a great gun and prices have never been better. I just got one over the holidays for $1099. At sub $1500 these are a steal - get one now or kick your self later. Like PD trade in revolvers, $99 SKS, cheap 5.45 ammo etc

Now “necessary” … if you need a working 9mm PDW you need a modern gun and are buying a B&T or an MPX variant. Period.

[WobblyPossum]

If you want an MP5 clone /because MP5 the AP5 is a great gun and prices have never been better. I just got one over the holidays for $1099. At sub $1500 these are a steal - get one now or kick your self later. Like PD trade in revolvers, $99 SKS, cheap 5.45 ammo etc

Now “necessary” … if you need a working 9mm PDW you need a modern gun and are buying a B&T or an MPX variant. Period.

Something to think about considering we’ve recently chatted about firearms related things we regret not buying.

[JRB]

If you need an MP5, you know already that you need an MP5. You woke up needing an MP5. You've been thinking about it for years.

If you're wondering whether or not you need an MP5, no, you don't need an MP5.

[GJM]

If you need an MP5, you know already that you need an MP5. You woke up needing an MP5. You've been thinking about it for years.

If you're wondering whether or not you need an MP5, no, you don't need an MP5.

I had an HK94 decades ago when the cost $650 new and have regretted selling it ever since. A SP5 and SP5k made me get over my sense of loss. :p

[HCM]

I had an HK94 decades ago when the cost $650 new and have regretted selling it ever since. A SP5 and SP5k made me get over my sense of loss. :p

I had a chance to buy a NIB HK94 right after the import ban pushed them up to $999.00 but could not afford it at the time.

I later had an HK 94 that I bought at a ridiculous price ($4k ?). It was OK but it was not $4k awesome. I liked it enough to want an MP five cologne that actually ran but not enough to spend that kind of money on another HK 94 to SBR.

While the SP5 is cooler than the HK94, it’s not $2k (cost of a Stacatto)!cooler than an MKE AP-5.

[HCM]

If you need an MP5, you know already that you need an MP5. You woke up needing an MP5. You've been thinking about it for years.

If you're wondering whether or not you need an MP5, no, you don't need an MP5.

This ^^^.

[DDTSGM]

So, is an SP5 fun for a left-hander, long term? Any southpaws have significant time with one?

I'm a lefty and have a lot of time on the MP5, not the SP5.

The SP5, like the MP5, has a paddle mag release, as well as the button, so no problem there. IMO, when using the 'proper' NEW - BACK - OFF - ON - FORWARD reloading techbnique, a lefty has an advantage in using the release button over the righty - if they so desire.

As far as slapping the action forward it is no problem for the lefty to bring the right hand over the top to do so. Likewise, bringing the action to the rear is simply a matter of right hand over the top fingers down, instead of left hand fingers up - not much more than that.

[Evil_Ed]

Almost nothing compares to a roller locked subgun with a suppressor on it - much quieter than the competition, IMO.

100001

100002

A few things though...they are not the wonderous catch-all that a lot of people think they are - you may need to change the locking piece, depending on whether you get the full size SP5 or the smaller K (as I have) and if you plan on running it suppressed full time or not. And, when doing that, you need to be able to measure the bolt gap, and change rollers to bring it into spec if necessary...there's also considerations of bullet weight, etc.

And...they can get a bit gummy after a few hundred rounds :o

Having said all of that - when you get behind one and put a few rounds through it, you'll wonder why anyone would want to shoot anything else...right up until you need to clean it, anyway.

[fly out]

I'm a lefty and have a lot of time on the MP5, not the SP5.

The SP5, like the MP5, has a paddle mag release, as well as the button, so no problem there. IMO, when using the 'proper' NEW - BACK - OFF - ON - FORWARD reloading techbnique, a lefty has an advantage in using the release button over the righty - if they so desire.

As far as slapping the action forward it is no problem for the lefty to bring the right hand over the top to do so. Likewise, bringing the action to the rear is simply a matter of right hand over the top fingers down, instead of left hand fingers up - not much more than that.

Thanks for the thoughts. It's been years since I played with an MP5, and I recall just rotating my left hand 30-45 degrees, but time plays tricks on me. Lots of things from 20-ish years ago have become romanticized in my mind.

Back order placed.

[CleverNickname]

I had an HK94 decades ago when the cost $650 new and have regretted selling it ever since. A SP5 and SP5k made me get over my sense of loss. :p
I bought an ex-CA DOJ HK94 and a Fleming autosear circa 2009. Sold it about year later when I realized I had too many machine guns (had four at the time). It was a better-shooting gun than the Uzi SMG that I kept, but it was also worth about twice as much as the Uzi so the Uzi won.

[Screwball]

Figured I’d bounce this back for an update…

Ended up getting one. [emoji41]

Atlantic had a decent deal on PTR classic models. Kind of prefer PTR for the warranty aspect over Century dealing with MKE guns. Not to say MKE will have issues, but I just rather have a US built gun.

Hindsight, it also clears me from any 922(r) issues… and I likely will SBR it upon my return from training. I am likely going to check on an A3 stock at the PA Oaks gun show… which is a stop on my travel day (I’ll toss it in a Flat Rate box and leave it at my godmother’s place in PA until it comes back).

Got to get a 3-lug adapter for my Bushwhacker 46. Going to have to figure out a single point sling… being there isn’t a front sling point on the PTR. And want to get magazines figured out.

Damn gun is expensive already…

[Screwball]

https://i.imgur.com/rbTohSy.jpg

Hoping to get it out to shoot when we qualify next week.

[Bergeron]

A lovely gun!

Back in my days of being a broke college student, I would save up for range trips with rental MP5s as my special expensive end-of-semester treat.

Please let us know what the range trips are like!

[Darth_Uno]

If you've ever truly wanted an MP5, IMO, nothing else will scratch that itch.

Since you mentioned not doing many modifications, I'd say something like the Century AP5 is definitely worth considering. Half of the draw for an AR-based PCC is the modularity and increased aftermarket offerings, so that sounds like a moot point in your case.

I always wanted an MP5, and ended up with a B&T APC9 Pro. I wanted the one that takes Glock mags, but at the time you couldn’t find it anywhere so I got the “regular” one. I’m not qualified to say how it’s better or worse than an MP5, but I freakin’ love it.

Not a lot of aftermarket for it though.

[UNM1136]

I scratched my itch with a GSG-5K that I Form 1'd and suppressed. It is not quite the same, but good enough for me. And .22 is waaaay cheaper than. 9mm to shoot.

Something like this...
101512

101511

I have an actual HK rear sight on it, and the three lug barrel is cosmetic... but it is fun and cheap to shoot and absolutely SLAYS bunnies and squirrels. Steel at 50 yards is fun.

For potential social use, I think the manual of arms for the current options is much, much better. The MP5, IiRC was a 60s design based on a 50s design.

And JRB said it better than I could have.

pat

[Screwball]

Since a few of have way more knowledge with these than I do… asking a question. Have the same question on HKPro… but I figured I’d ask here, as well.

So, I picked up one of those HK Parts trigger groups that had the Franklin Armory trigger installed. Got it so I could just toss on and run it.

It is the SEF lower, and the correct one to fit my PTR 9CT (HKP-18533). I also made sure to add that to the comments, as instructed.

Got it the other day, but doesn’t fit at all. I watched the video they posted on YouTube, but came down to it being a trigger housing issue (clipped/pinned by HK Parts). I pulled the pack out, and this is what I get…

https://i.imgur.com/Fc3JJRY.jpg

The difference of that overhang is identical to how far out of alignment the rear pin hole is.

https://i.imgur.com/XFYW1gD.jpg

And then when the housing is all the way forward… I can see light thru the gun just behind the magazine release.

Took it off and noticed the paint scuffed around the shelf.

https://i.imgur.com/xV9tJiT.jpg

I emailed HK Parts last night with those pictures because nothing in their listing talks about needing to fit anything. Should a trigger housing be fitted to a gun. If so, and specific way to do it “correctly?”

Thanks in advance for any help.

[pi3]

Less than 1/2 way. You’d still need to AUG-ment the collection. :p

Might also need to “squeeze” something else in, too.

I want some of those diehard mags that never run dry until the scropt calls for it.

[TGS]

And...they can get a bit gummy after a few hundred rounds :o


How do you clean them? Is the design amenable to just being blasted with non-chlorinated brake cleaner?

I have a GSL Phoenix that I bought 4 years ago and still need to buy a host. Shooting it on jc0000's SP5 is the only time I've used it. I was going to get one, and then I saw a custom built Mk12 Mod-H that I absolutely had to have...which as an impulse buy, used up the funds I had reserved for an SP5. And now I'm planning on a Gordy, because 1) that gun fucks, 2) I already have an AEM-5 and OCM-5 (OCM still in jail) for my two Mk12s, and itd be awesome to use those cans on a Gordy.

So, one day I'll get around to it. Maybe September at the earliest....maybe next year.

[Screwball]

I’ve been shooting my PTR for a few months… cleaning isn’t too bad. Brush out the carbon, wipe, clean and lube.

If you mean the suppressor… this is my new go-to. Very good reviews.

https://www.breakthroughclean.com/solvents-cleaners/suppressor-cleaner

I actually have a 3-day class with the gun (also my duty gun) in NC this March. Estimated 2,000 rounds, so I’ll definitely put it thru its paces.

[Sig_Fiend]

Since a few of have way more knowledge with these than I do... asking a question. Have the same question on HKPro... but I figured I'd ask here, as well.

So, I picked up one of those HK Parts trigger groups that had the Franklin Armory trigger installed. Got it so I could just toss on and run it.

It is the SEF lower, and the correct one to fit my PTR 9CT (HKP-18533). I also made sure to add that to the comments, as instructed.

Got it the other day, but doesn't fit at all. I watched the video they posted on YouTube, but came down to it being a trigger housing issue (clipped/pinned by HK Parts). I pulled the pack out, and this is what I get...

The difference of that overhang is identical to how far out of alignment the rear pin hole is.

And then when the housing is all the way forward... I can see light thru the gun just behind the magazine release.

Took it off and noticed the paint scuffed around the shelf.

I emailed HK Parts last night with those pictures because nothing in their listing talks about needing to fit anything. Should a trigger housing be fitted to a gun. If so, and specific way to do it "correctly?"

Thanks in advance for any help.

I realize your previous post was nearly a year ago, and not sure you ever resolved it but, figured I'd mention this in case it helps. Awhile back I bought a clipped and pinned lower for my HK 91 from them. I ended up having to file it quite a bit around the faux pins. Similar situation, I think.

The lower wouldn't go forward all the way, which was evident at the rear pushpin holes, just like yours. I ended up having to file the backside of the faux pins as they weren't flush with the polymer of the lower and were creating a bit of interference.

I also had to file the back of the ears a bit. Also, while I didn't have to do this on mine, there is the metal "shelf" at the front of the lower. Some people end up having to file it a bit if it's forcing the lower to sit higher than it's supposed to, so you could potentially have a problem there as well. I'd be real sure before filing the shelf, though.

[DDTSGM]

So, is an SP5 fun for a left-hander, long term? Any southpaws have significant time with one?

oh, fiddlesticks, this thread showed up in the new post list and I didn't register the 2023 date.

I'm a left-hander and an HK ITD Master Instructor (I guess was is the operative word since the International Training Division no longer exists). I have a lot of rounds through them.

In terms are manipulations the MP5 manual-of-arms is easy for a lefty - if the lower has ambi-safties they suck just as bad for righties as lefties.

If the pistol/rifle is a true clone it will have both a paddle mag release as well as a button, so no problem there.

If you want one I woukdn't let left-handedness stop me.