Idle curiosity - VP9 series coexisting with P30 series?

[HeavyDuty]

First, some background. I’m moving away from Glock to TDA and LEM for carry and defense. The Berettas are working out well, and I have high hopes for P30s based on my current P30LS. I especially like how the P30s have very configurable grip panels.

I’ve noticed that when I’ve been concentrating on the Berettas and HK and switch back to Glock, the different grip angle is very noticeable and takes a transition. Plus, my wrist pain has gotten worse as of late, and that may be a permanent thing - the Glock angle is definitely an aggravating factor for this. (I know I can dehump the Glocks to somewhat change the angle.) The Berettas are neutral and don’t cause as much pain, and my P30LS is downright comfortable with a neutral wrist position.

The new HK Micro thread got me idly looking online at VP9s for the first time. I like keeping a pure range and game type pistol around, that has been the realm of an iron sighted G34.4 and more recently a SIG X5 Legion with R1P. The VP9L OR and VP9 Match caught my eye for this purpose.

The question - do the VP9 series pistols have similar ergonomics to the P30 series? I know the triggers are totally different, but (from photos anyways) the grip angles, dimensions and shapes look to be nearly identical. If yes, I might do well to move.

(I feel a pistol fire sale coming on.)

[Kanye Wyoming]

The question - do the VP9 series pistols have similar ergonomics to the P30 series? I know the triggers are totally different, but (from photos anyways) the grip angles, dimensions and shapes look to be nearly identical. If yes, I might do well to move. For some reason I like the Large backstrap on the VP9 and the Medium on the P30(L), so there must be some difference. I also find the VP9 slightly more comfortable. But overall, I’d say yes, very similar ergonomics.

[Sig_Fiend]

The VP9 ergos are very similar to the P30 and, I'd say, probably only a few percent difference. The side panels and backstrap of both are not interchangeable but, at a glance appear very close.

The main difference in feeling I notice between them is how deep the VP9 sits in your hand from the grip arch / beavertail area.

I feel your pain, literally, HeavyDuty! I have wrist problems too and have found the amount of camming forward necessary with Glocks is just enough that it's really irritating and exhausting on my wrists. HKs and SIGs I find considerably less exhausting.

Although there is a noticeable difference between the VP series and its P30 equivalents, you do have the similarity of most of the ergos, mag release, and same mags. Slide release placement is different and the trigger feels distinctly different of course. The trigger is what most would probably call lame or unremarkable. I don't love the trigger but, I do find it easy to ignore the pull entirely and just shoot the gun.

The only thing I've found off-putting about the VP series is those damned charging supports. IMO, they create an obnoxious and unnecessary view obstruction and distraction. I did find them quite easy to cut off with a short blade Mora utility knife, without needing to remove the rear sight. ;)

[CCT125US]

Short story...

Spent a fair amount of time (85k) with a P30 v3 (Da/Sa), and started to develop hand and finger fatigue. It would happen sooner and more frequently in dry and live fire. Began looking for other options, and then the VP9 was introduced.

Rented one at the shop and was immediately underwhelmed. I then went LEM.

[LOKNLOD]

My main beef with the vp9 grip was the texture. The bumpy maggots are not as good as the p30 roughness.

[HeavyDuty]

The only thing I've found off-putting about the VP series is those damned charging supports. IMO, they create an obnoxious and unnecessary view obstruction and distraction. I did find them quite easy to cut off with a short blade Mora utility knife, without needing to remove the rear sight. ;)

I was under the impression they were removable?

[HeavyDuty]

Finding one to handle someplace that doesn’t have mandatory trigger locks would answer this, but absent that - how does the VP9 trigger compare to a Glock?

[LOKNLOD]

I was under the impression they were removable?

They are - held in by the rear sight. shaving them off as he described means you don't have to fiddle with the rear sight and leaves them flush.


Finding one to handle someplace that doesn’t have mandatory trigger locks would answer this, but absent that - how does the VP9 trigger compare to a Glock?

Less of the weighted takeup/crunchy wall of a Glock. They have a trigger that feels more like the other crop of modern fully cocked striker guns, 320, PPQ, etc. Not as light as the walther, though. It's very shootable but nothing special? The fully cocked nature gives less optionality to play with than a Glock trigger.

[HeavyDuty]

Ok, I’ve heard enough to determine I need to find one in a case somewhere to check out. Thanks, everyone!

[Mark D]

One issue with the VP9, that I have personally witnessed, is the dead trigger phenomenon that can result from a blow to the butt of the pistol. Doc_Glock documents it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kP9ZW57ov0

This may or may not be important to you.

[Spartan1980]

Finding one to handle someplace that doesn’t have mandatory trigger locks would answer this, but absent that - how does the VP9 trigger compare to a Glock?

I find the VP9 trigger far superior to any Glock I've ever touched. You can also play with springs and such to improve them like most other striker fired pistols if you want. Additionally, field stripping and looking inside gives the impression that everything is far more robust, like "bomb proof". It's typical HK build quality.

Have you considered a CZ P10C? My sample of one compares very well to my VP9 and is a "better G19" if there is such an animal. It may be an option for you that doesn't deviate so far from Glock. A lot of G19 holsters will work with a P10C.

[HeavyDuty]

One issue with the VP9, that I have personally witnessed, is the dead trigger phenomenon that can result from a blow to the butt of the pistol. Doc_Glock documents it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kP9ZW57ov0

This may or may not be important to you.

This would be a range toy, so probably not something I would worry too much about unless it fails unsafe.

[HeavyDuty]

I find the VP9 trigger far superior to any Glock I've ever touched. You can also play with springs and such to improve them like most other striker fired pistols if you want. Additionally, field stripping and looking inside gives the impression that everything is far more robust, like "bomb proof". It's typical HK build quality.

Have you considered a CZ P10C? My sample of one compares very well to my VP9 and is a "better G19" if there is such an animal. It may be an option for you that doesn't deviate so far from Glock. A lot of G19 holsters will work with a P10C.

Good info on the springing, thanks.

A VP9L would be a G34/X5 Legion replacement for me, but the CZs are interesting. I’m trying to avoid looking at too much, though since I’ve already made radical changes to Beretta and HK over the last few months.

[Lex Luthier]

HeavyDuty -looks like you may want to reach out to a fellow P-F member if you like whichever one you handle:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?55685-Grey-Frame-VP9-with-Additional-Factory-Optics-Ready-Slide-Barrel-and-Recoil-Spring

[HeavyDuty]

HeavyDuty -looks like you may want to reach out to a fellow P-F member if you like whichever one you handle:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?55685-Grey-Frame-VP9-with-Additional-Factory-Optics-Ready-Slide-Barrel-and-Recoil-Spring

If that was just an L…

[SecondsCount]

I'm a longtime P30 shooter and have a VP9. I don't notice a big difference between the two but I'm the type to just pulls a pistol out the box and shoot it. They have both been solid pistols for me.

[JonInWA]

I'm running a P30L and a VP40; my thoughts are that their ergos are very similar, but not exact. The VP has a deeper tang cut in the backstrap; while both work best for me with the Small backstrap, on the P30L I'm using Large left and right side panels, while on the VP I use a Large left and Small right.

The slide releases on the P30 are larger and seemingly sturdier, but the VPs work well. The VP's slide releases are stamped components, and the left one is semi-recessed, but actually protrudes sufficiently. The right side one is long and seemingly spindly, but operationally it's fine.

While the P30 has a more sandpaper-y grip texturing, the VP's works well enough; I haven't felt any compelling need to add any aftermarket texturing/grip applications.

The VP has a softer wall and break than a Glock, but it's workable. Reset is a tad longer, but not a big deal to me. I see the VP40 as being preferable to a Gen 4 or 4 G23, but I haven't comparatively shot with a Gen5 G23. My Gen4 G22 gives me trigger sting unless I use the Medium or Large beavertail backstrap (which I prefer to anyhow). The VP definitely has a softer recoil than my Gen4 Glock G22.

Best, Jon

[omega9]

If that was just an L…

Don’t discount a VP9 with a PMM comp, mine shoots very nice. My mother is 64 and shoots it without an hand pain. Comparatively, she doesn’t like my other non- comp’d 9’s.

[Navin Johnson]

This would be a range toy, so probably not something I would worry too much about unless it fails unsafe.

Sorry if I did not see it earlier. If it is a range toy why not a steel 1911 9mm?

[Ed L]

I bought a P30L in 2014 only to have the VP9 come out a month or two later. The only thing I liked better about the P30L over the VP9 is that mine has a manual safety and I use it in the cocked and locked mode as a bedroom gun. I wound up sending the P30L to Grayguns to have the troth/groove in the inside bottom of the trigger guard removed, since it tended to whack my trigger finger during recoil like a mini rubber band hit.

The VP9 has a higher beavertail that lets the shooter attain a higher grip, which results in a lower bore axis than the P30 which makes the VP9 a bit more controllable. For me the higher grip means a different trigger finger position so that even though the VP9 has the same troth/groove in the inside bottom of the trigger guard, it does not whack my finger the way that the P30s did or the HK45s did.

The P30 has a longer trigger reset that the VP9 and its trigger seems to break further back. The reset length seems to be a German police specification. I had Grayguns apply their Reduced Reset Carry Perfection Package on the P30L, along with my HK45 and HK45C, since those guns have a similarly long trigger reset which require the trigger to come much further forward than most of the other auto pistols that I shoot. I am not one who is super attentive to every millimeter of trigger reset, but I did find myself not allowing the HK45's Trigger to go to full reset once or twice in during a 2 day 500-600 round shooting class. Now I can switch between a variety of different guns, including VP9s, P30s/HK45s, Glocks, Sig P365 with no issues.

[HeavyDuty]

Sorry if I did not see it earlier. If it is a range toy why not a steel 1911 9mm?

I’m thinking because of similarity with what may become my main defensive pistols. But I’ve also been watching for a Ruger 6759… this would be in addition to that.

[HeavyDuty]

I bought a P30L in 2014 only to have the VP9 come out a month or two later. The only thing I liked better about the P30L over the VP9 is that mine has a manual safety and I use it in the cocked and locked mode as a bedroom gun. I wound up sending the P30L to Grayguns to have the troth/groove in the inside bottom of the trigger guard removed, since it tended to whack my trigger finger during recoil like a mini rubber band hit.

The VP9 has a higher beavertail that lets the shooter attain a higher grip, which results in a lower bore axis than the P30 which makes the VP9 a bit more controllable. For me the higher grip means a different trigger finger position so that even though the VP9 has the same troth/groove in the inside bottom of the trigger guard, it does not whack my finger the way that the P30s did or the HK45s did.

The P30 has a longer trigger reset that the VP9 and its trigger seems to break further back. The reset length seems to be a German police specification. I had Grayguns apply their Reduced Reset Carry Perfection Package on the P30L, along with my HK45 and HK45C, since those guns have a similarly long trigger reset which require the trigger to come much further forward than most of the other auto pistols that I shoot. I am not one who is super attentive to every millimeter of trigger reset, but I did find myself not allowing the HK45's Trigger to go to full reset once or twice in during a 2 day 500-600 round shooting class. Now I can switch between a variety of different guns, including VP9s, P30s/HK45s, Glocks, Sig P365 with no issues.

Great info, thank you!

[Spartan1980]

Good info on the springing, thanks.

A VP9L would be a G34/X5 Legion replacement for me, but the CZs are interesting. I’m trying to avoid looking at too much, though since I’ve already made radical changes to Beretta and HK over the last few months.

FYI. These are the pieces that's suppose to bring the magic. I wouldn't know how much magic because I haven't yet seen the need or had the urge to install them. :cool:

Well hell, attachment isn't working.

HKParts.net SKUs

VPTRSLT (VP9, VP40 Ultra Match Spring Set)
HKP16031 (Trigger Return Spring Tool)

[HeavyDuty]

FYI. These are the pieces that's suppose to bring the magic. I wouldn't know how much magic because I haven't yet seen the need or had the urge to install them. :cool:

Well hell, attachment isn't working.

HKParts.net SKUs

VPTRSLT (VP9, VP40 Ultra Match Spring Set)
HKP16031 (Trigger Return Spring Tool)
Thanks! And I agree about the tool - I have it for my P30s and it’s worth its weight in gold.

[HeavyDuty]

I had a chance to briefly handle a VP9 today. I think would work for me as a range gun alongside P30 series pistols.

[Chuck Whitlock]

I had a chance to briefly handle a VP9 today. I think would work for me as a range gun alongside P30 series pistols.

I think I would be concerned with having two nearly identical guns with very different trigger characteristics. But that's me.

[HeavyDuty]

I think I would be concerned with having two nearly identical guns with very different trigger characteristics. But that's me.

Two very different purposes, so I’m not sure there would be a risk.

[Archer1440]

I regularly compete with both P30L and VP9L, and I honestly feel that running the P30 series gun to the limits of my ability helps keep me honest in terms of marksmanship with the VP series.

But then again I regularly train with a Python in DA for the same purpose.

My movement speed isn't competitive in USPSA, due to injuries, but my accuracy isn't anything I have ever been ashamed of.

[Corse]

There are some small differences between the two grip wise, most can be minimized by swapping grip panels. I like and use both pistols but, so far the VP9L has been the most accurate.

100997

One issue I have noticed, is that the VP9L slide is very easy to push out of battery and it needs momentum to completely return to battery. Neither the P30s or other VP9s do this.

[Bucky]

I went back and forth between a VP9 and a P30L with greatly lightened DA pull for competition use for a full season. I did better with the P30L. Maybe just forget the VP9 and do a dedicated range / competition use P30L?

[HeavyDuty]

I went back and forth between a VP9 and a P30L with greatly lightened DA pull for competition use for a full season. I did better with the P30L. Maybe just forget the VP9 and do a dedicated range / competition use P30L?

That’s definitely an option. I have a P30LS now that came v3 but that I converted to v1. Maybe I should convert it back and tune it for a range gun?

One advantage I see to a VP9L OR over a tuned P30L is the consistent trigger and it being optic ready.