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View Full Version : Single or double point slings for M4 style carbines?



Little Creek
10-05-2012, 11:42 AM
What do you guys use and why?

LittleLebowski
10-05-2012, 11:44 AM
Double. Keeps the carbine from banging my body and going weird places.

SamuelBLong
10-05-2012, 11:50 AM
Double. Keeps the carbine from banging my body and going weird places.

Same. Plus most of the current designs that are out there will allow you to take up some slack to improve stability in various positions.

Also being able to secure the gun to your back and not bang it into rocks and whatnot when climbing is a plus.

My guns are setup to run single point if I really want to, but I dont find myself unclicking the 2 point slings and changing over very often.

DocGKR
10-05-2012, 01:49 PM
90% of the time and adj 2-point like a VCAS or VTAC; however, for pure CQB/entry work, a single point does work well.

orionz06
10-05-2012, 02:07 PM
Double simply because a carbine for me is for fun (in classes) and classes are 8 hours a day and a 2 point is easier to carry the gun for long periods.

Lon
10-05-2012, 03:38 PM
Both. I have an Emdom sling that allows me to do either. Kinda like the Magpul MS3. Which variation depends on what I'm doing at he time.

Sparks2112
10-05-2012, 04:49 PM
The first time your single point sling introduces your rifle to your testicles the cool factor wears off. 2 point sling please.

Zhurdan
10-05-2012, 05:51 PM
I run a single point and have never had my testicles introduced to my gun thru several 3 day classes.

Control the gun out of the way with your support hand during transition and it may bang your knee, but not your wee nee.

Sparks2112
10-05-2012, 06:10 PM
I run a single point and have never had my testicles introduced to my gun thru several 3 day classes.

Control the gun out of the way with your support hand during transition and it may bang your knee, but not your wee nee.

Maybe it's a surface area thing? ;)

Zhurdan
10-05-2012, 06:26 PM
Maybe it's a surface area thing? ;)

Nice. Well played sir. well played!

Jay Cunningham
10-05-2012, 06:47 PM
Single points are specialized pieces of kit; the adjusting two point is much more versatile over a range of situations.

Al T.
10-05-2012, 07:14 PM
Two point, VTAC preferred.

Dave J
10-05-2012, 07:32 PM
Another vote for the two-point.

I've gone back and forth between the VTAC and VCAS a few times over the last few years/deployments. Both work well, IMHO.

Zhurdan
10-05-2012, 07:50 PM
Single points are specialized pieces of kit; the adjusting two point is much more versatile over a range of situations.

I understand. Let me clarify. I'm a Hobbyist? Is that what they call people who like to shoot and want to learn how to do it right?

I also have a 10.5" 5.56 and a 8" 300BLK SBR. So, knee banging isn't really an issue once the gun is guided out of the way. It's also an MS2 sling with a front sling attachment. So I use what needs to be used at the time, but it's usually single point.

LittleLebowski
10-05-2012, 07:59 PM
I understand. Let me clarify. I'm a Hobbyist? Is that what they call people who like to shoot and want to learn how to do it right?


Slow down, dude. That's not what he said nor implied.

Jay Cunningham
10-05-2012, 08:05 PM
I hear the "hobbyist" term used a lot, and it seems to have several meanings, context-dependent. Sometimes it's used in a perforative manner - sometimes fairly, often unfairly.

IMO where the single point is most effective is in the job description of "assaulter" - meaning you are transported to a structure in a vehicle, you egress the vehicle and enter the structure with the intentions of fighting inside the structure, moving through it.

I don't have any personal experience with the above, it's just an observation.

tjbeck
10-05-2012, 08:19 PM
A parade sling...that's what they give us for the rifle range so that's got to be the best answer...right?:rolleyes:

I generally prefer a good two point sling, seems more versatile in my limited experience.

Lon
10-05-2012, 08:26 PM
IMO where the single point is most effective is in the job description of "assaulter" - meaning you are transported to a structure in a vehicle, you egress the vehicle and enter the structure with the intentions of fighting inside the structure, moving through it.

I don't have any personal experience with the above, it's just an observation.

I do have the experience above and you are correct, IMHO. That's why I have the sling I do. Riding to the target house in the raid van, jumping out, serving the warrant and then being done the single point is GTG. Standing or kneeling on perimeter or doing something along those lines, I prefer the 2 point configuration where I can cinch that rifle up close and tight across my chest. Comes in handy when you are kneeling down, working on something. Or when you have to carry a shield, or when you have to help carry a generator, or lights, or a stretcher or whatever. The rifle doesn't swing/bang around with a good tightened 2 point sling. I can't say the same about a single point, even a good single point.

This is the sling I use:

http://prostores2.carrierzone.com/servlet/emdomusa/Detail?no=57

SLG
10-05-2012, 10:46 PM
I do have the experience above and you are correct, IMHO. That's why I have the sling I do. Riding to the target house in the raid van, jumping out, serving the warrant and then being done the single point is GTG. Standing or kneeling on perimeter or doing something along those lines, I prefer the 2 point configuration where I can cinch that rifle up close and tight across my chest. Comes in handy when you are kneeling down, working on something. Or when you have to carry a shield, or when you have to help carry a generator, or lights, or a stretcher or whatever. The rifle doesn't swing/bang around with a good tightened 2 point sling. I can't say the same about a single point, even a good single point.

This is the sling I use:

http://prostores2.carrierzone.com/servlet/emdomusa/Detail?no=57

I too am an assaulter, and I've been using the same sling as of late. Mine is a one off version, but close enough that you get the idea.

I used 2 points for years (also as an assaulter), and a single point for years before that. What goes around, comes around, or something like that. With kit on, I've never had my balls banged by the gun, and the single point lets me run the gun how I want. When I need to climb or cuff, I turn it into a 2 point. What's not to like?

Zhurdan
10-06-2012, 12:16 AM
Slow down, dude. That's not what he said nor implied.

LL, I'm not offended at all by the term or what was said. I'm just a guy that likes to take a piece of equipment and make it work to the best of my abilities. I'm not a HSLD kind of guy. I just appreciate learning how to make stuff work better. I have a lot to learn. The single point works for me for what i do with it. As a hobbyist. I'm figuring out what I don't know one day at a time. ;_)

TGS
10-06-2012, 12:43 AM
Hey guys,

I'm surprised no one has mentioned a 3-point sling yet (tactical type, not a 3 point Ching sling).

I'm not sure what brand they were, but the one's we had in the Marines were able to be used like a 2 point which is nice for the reasons you've all mentioned. Unless we were on a hike or some other admin role, I'd almost always release the forward fastex buckle and use it as a single-point for field work. Seems like the best of both worlds, but I've never had experience with a dedicated two-point besides a cotton USGI or M1907 sling...

Comments?

YVK
10-06-2012, 12:52 AM
LL, I'm not offended at all by the term or what was said. I'm just a guy that likes to take a piece of equipment and make it work to the best of my abilities. I'm not a HSLD kind of guy. I just appreciate learning how to make stuff work better. I have a lot to learn. The single point works for me for what i do with it. As a hobbyist. I'm figuring out what I don't know one day at a time. ;_)

Oh, come on, just admit there isn't a two point sling that you can wrap around you...

:p

I've seen you shoot a carbine: you're qualified to add "serious" before "hobbyist".

I can't use single point for longer than 1 hour or so. I understand it is not meant to be used for protracted activities, but even from the standpoint of taking a training class, I can't do it. I guess my balls are too big...I have magpul's sling and I like the idea but not execution. I also saw it not do well at all, i.e. suck, in bad weather. Perhaps this emdom piece is better.

I prefer Vickers over VTAC for two points.

TGS
10-06-2012, 12:58 AM
I can't use single point for longer than 1 hour or so. I understand it is not meant to be used for protracted activities, but even from the standpoint of taking a training class, I can't do it.

Makes a huge difference if you're wearing body armor. With an interceptor vest, I could never feel discomfort from using a 3-point sling setup as a single point with my M16A4 with an RCO, VFG and PEQ15.

I tried on BaiHu's single point (Magpul?) with his Colt 6400 while wearing just a t-shirt and I didn't want to wear it for 5 minutes.

Jay Cunningham
10-06-2012, 02:10 AM
There are some slick aftermarket buckles and fasteners available that let you mod your sling to work in several configurations.

rob_s
10-06-2012, 08:19 AM
I use a modified VCAS with a custom tail to have a 2-to-1-point-convertible sling. Stole the idea from the Magpul sling which I tried and found sorely lacking. I only use this sling on SBRs and I move it around from gun to gun. I use a variety of front attachment points depending on the forend used.

My preferred sling right now is the Mission Ready Equipment Sheriff of Baghdad sling designed by John "Shrek" McPhee. It is essentially a VTAC, totally unloaded, and with the adjustment reversed. When attached far forward on the hand guard and at the heel or toe of the stock, it is surprisingly comfortable even with heavy guns and very usable in all situations I've encountered as a hobbyist once you know what you're doing and work the kinks out.

Which brings up a point... If you're going to buy a specific sling, it behooves you to understand how to use it in the manner the designer intended. That doesn't mean that's the only way to use it, but at least start out using it "right". I've seen a lot of guys bitch about this or that sling, only to discover they were using it all screwed up or trying to make it do something it wasn't designed to do.

Dave J
10-06-2012, 10:26 AM
Hey guys,

I'm surprised no one has mentioned a 3-point sling yet (tactical type, not a 3 point Ching sling).

Comments?

Because they suck.

I used to use Wilderness "Giles" 3-points for much of the 1990's, on both M16's and M4's. In fairness, they worked OK for patrol carry, back when we wore suspender-style load carriage equipment, usually without body armor, and I sometimes needed to have my hands free for the map, compass, radio, etc. Once we started routinely wearing body armor, and carrying mags/gear on the chest rather than on the belt, the 3-points failed miserably, since they just get caught up on everything, and don't really serve any useful purpose other than to annoy the wearer and provide comedy for any observers, IMHO.

Even trying to use a 3-point for a few minutes drives me nuts now, even if it's just plinking with a .22LR carbine.

TGS
10-06-2012, 10:52 AM
Once we started routinely wearing body armor, and carrying mags/gear on the chest rather than on the belt, the 3-points failed miserably, since they just get caught up on everything

Hence why I would use it as a single point when in the field.

I'd buckle it back up into its two-point like configuration when weapon/gear accessibility is secondary (admin functions).

I'm not familiar with the ones you had. Most of the problems I saw with people using 3-points was because they didn't give any thought, whatsoever, to how they configured and used the sling. Most wore them incorrectly, as far as I could tell....and were expecting too much of a sling to begin with. A tacticool sling is either going to be optimal in an admin role, or in an assaulter role.....not both. A 3 point allows you to either/or with the click of a buckle, which is what I found useful about them.

I'd agree with using a 3 point sling all clicked up is a clusterfuq if you're in an environment where weapon/gear accessibility is primary.

seabiscuit
10-06-2012, 11:07 AM
I bought a Giles sling from Wilderness before I knew better, and it's a three-point, but I don't think it's the kind you guys are talking about. As far as I know, there's no way to quickly make it a single point.

DocGKR
10-06-2012, 12:56 PM
Traditional 3-point sling was great in 1990...they blow chunks now.

TGS
10-06-2012, 01:19 PM
Is there a reason behind your statement? Is there something that prevents a 3-point from being used effectively in the ways I've explained?

seabiscuit
10-06-2012, 01:27 PM
I was wondering if anyone knew whether the sling I have can be converted to a single point sling. Apparently it is a traditional three-point sling and cannot be converted. If it can, I'd like to know how.

I do now realize the drawbacks of a traditional three point sling. For now, mine just sits on my 15-22.

TGS
10-06-2012, 01:39 PM
I was wondering if anyone knew whether the sling I have can be converted to a single point sling. Apparently it is a traditional three-point sling and cannot be converted. If it can, I'd like to know how.

Does it have a buckle towards the front attachment point that can be released?

That's literally all it took on the ones I was issued. Completely on the fly. If yours doesn't have a buckle, I'm afraid I can't be of assistance.

seabiscuit
10-06-2012, 01:51 PM
There's a buckle but unclipping it breaks the loop. Then I have a strap hanging off the end of the rifle, which sucks.

When I saw the post about reconfigurable three points, I got excited, but looks like I still have a sucky sling. Sorry for the thread drift.

EMC
10-06-2012, 05:17 PM
2 point boonie packer tactical quick adjust. Cheap and effective. You need a front side mounting point though.

Little Creek
10-07-2012, 06:54 PM
Thanks for all the imput. Sometimes something makes since to me, but I need to bounce it around some SME. I think the double point sling will meet my needs best.

DocGKR
10-08-2012, 02:52 AM
TGS--they are not as versatile, ergonomic, or effective as single point or 2-point and tend to get in the way of pouches on the chest; keep in mind that the traditional 1990's style 3-point sling CANNOT be quickly turned into any other configuration. Many things have changed over the past two decades or so...

http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/ga/ul/85520959963/inlineimg/Y/French_helmet_Eagle_vest.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6050/6338342552_13b7fb84da_z.jpg

Chuck Haggard
10-08-2012, 10:04 AM
I started out with the GI slings because that's what we had, then bought a 3 point Giles sling, ended up with a home made single point and used that for awhile, then back to a GI sling, now I'm using one or another variation of the advanced two point slings.

I've got 18 years on our team and about 2000 entries under my belt so I got an opportunity to play around with this stuff for awhile.

Part of my reasoning for what I do is due to the amount of training that I have done with Ken Good. He looks at a sling as a holster for a long gun and runs unslung most of the time, slinging only when he needs to. I did the same for quite a bit of my work.

The single point slings work great for pure shooting or going fast through houses, they completely suck when you have to do things like climb a fence or cuff. Try writing the memo explaining to IA how you accidentally split a guy's head open (just a little) with the end of your carbine barrel due to the gun swinging around and cracking him in the head while he was proned out and compliant while being cuffed.


To answer an asked question; the 3 points suck for a variety of reason, including that one cant transition to the weak side shoulder, there is too much material involved in the sling and this makes it tend to hang up on other gear, and the sling can't be configured into other modes when needed or easily adjusted.

JRas
10-08-2012, 12:30 PM
Get a convertible 2 to 1 point sling and try both. Only time I prefer a 2-point is hands free

seabiscuit
10-08-2012, 01:14 PM
I can transition to weak shoulder with my Giles; I just drop my left arm through the loop and wind up with a loop around my neck. Sucks, and takes a while, and I still have a strap across my throat, but it works.

The biggest problem I have with it is getting in the way of controls, particularly the bolt release. But it also sucks for the aforementioned reasons.

Josh Runkle
10-09-2012, 12:14 PM
I have used all 3 types. 3 point's immediately get tangled in your mags if you're running a chest rig. I keep one on a "fun" .22 trainer at home, since it's comfortable and I don't actually "train" with that gun. IMO, it has almost zero real world usage.

I ran single point for a long time, but have recently switched to two point: a vicker's BFG. The only thing I really can't do is switch shoulders quickly. It takes about 2.5 seconds to switch shoulders with the two point, where I could switch around 1 second in a single point. How many times do you actually switch shoulders under pressure for the advantage? Maybe only if you're competing and there's no true penalty for failure (ie: no one dies if you screw up), or you're truly ambidextrous. Two point has so many added advantages with an M4, I haven't looked back. I would definitely stay single point with a smaller, lighter weapon like an MP5, though.

Zhurdan
10-09-2012, 12:25 PM
I have used all 3 types. 3 point's immediately get tangled in your mags if you're running a chest rig. I keep one on a "fun" .22 trainer at home, since it's comfortable and I don't actually "train" with that gun. IMO, it has almost zero real world usage.

I ran single point for a long time, but have recently switched to two point: a vicker's BFG. The only thing I really can't do is switch shoulders quickly. It takes about 2.5 seconds to switch shoulders with the two point, where I could switch around 1 second in a single point. How many times do you actually switch shoulders under pressure for the advantage? Maybe only if you're competing and there's no true penalty for failure (ie: no one dies if you screw up), or you're truly ambidextrous. Two point has so many added advantages with an M4, I haven't looked back. I would definitely stay single point with a smaller, lighter weapon like an MP5, though.

You raise a good point. The size/weight of the weapon, at least for me, determines what I use. On my 10.5"AR, I use a single point. On the FAL... well, it gets a Vickers because that one will bang you in the knees, toes, and everywhere else on a single point sling.