Thought exercise -- EDC/field/training pistol for you and 50 friends

[GJM]

So here is the exercise. Pick one pistol set-up that will cover you for EDC (concealed), for field use in all weather, and to train with. Here is the wrinkle -- that same pistol set-up needs to be suitable for the same uses as your pistol for fifty of your friends, and you need to set all the pistols up. Extra credit if the pistols are likely to run reliably out of the box and as accessorized, and you don't need to get a home equity loan to pay for each one.

This idea came about because I have been shooting a pistol the last few days that fits these criteria perfectly, and was simple enough I could set up dozens of duplicates with a minimum of fuss.

[CCT125US]

Since this is posted in the dot section..... you want OR?

[GJM]

Since this is posted in the dot section..... you want OR?

That is funny as I could swear I put it in semi auto pistols -- must be one of those Freudian slips. Dive on in, even if it doesn't have a dot!

[Clusterfrack]

That is funny as I could swear I put it in semi auto pistols -- must be one of those Freudian slips. Dive on in, even if it doesn't have a dot!

Want this thread moved?

Or can we say Glock 19 and close it out?

[flyrodr]

If not too loose an answer, I'd go with the user-preferred variants of the P365 and Holosun enclosed emitter red dot.

I know many would (with good reason) prefer the G19.5 w/enclosed red dot, but I, and several friends, find the G19 either a bit fat for smallish hands/stubby fingers, and/or it's tougher to conceal in much of some folks' everyday attire.

[CCT125US]

Dive on in, even if it doesn't have a dot!

P30sk V3s would be my submission. How'd I do?



Or can we say Glock 19 and close it out?

I personally would not trust 50 Glocks to run out of the box. But that's me.

[Duelist]

Glock 26. SCD. Real sights - Ameriglo, Trijicon, factory night sights, whatever - something steel with glow in the dark dot(s). JMCK IWB#3 or similar from Dark Star or something. 2 each 10 round, 12 round, and 15 round magazines. Case or three of ball. 200 HSTs. Done.

[Bergeron]

How experienced are my 50 friends? I start running out of real gun folk-friends less than halfway in, and that starts changing me up real quick.

Gun friends- G19.5 or Sig Macros with either SCDs(Glocks) or thumb safties(Sigs) wearing EPS w/ TLR8ag.

Non-gun friends - LTT P30s or 92s, EPS, no light/lasers.

Absolute stranger incompetents whom I must lead- S&W Shield EZ9s, no thumb safeties, with TLR8ag.

[WDR]

Want this thread moved?

Or can we say Glock 19 and close it out?

My very first thought. But I am biased... and wearing an RMR'd G19.5 AIWB right now.

[Willard]

This idea came about because I have been shooting a pistol the last few days that fits these criteria perfectly, and was simple enough I could set up dozens of duplicates with a minimum of fuss.

Which one?

[rd62]

A G19 would be my choice for such a scenario

[Totem Polar]

Man, I know we are in the wrong forum, but given my friends and the requirements…


I’d choose 4” DAO police trade in M64 S&Ws. 135gr +P GDHP and something like Buffalo Bore, Underwood or Lost River semi-wadcutter outdoorsman load. JMCK kydex for all 50.

If the Taurus executive that I just bought doesn’t suck or self-destruct, then I’lll change my vote to that, purely for the CCW part of the requirement triumvirate.

JMO.

[Noah]

Bone Stock PX4CC, or G19 Gen 5 that comes with Ameriglo sights, and an SCD. My heart wants to pick the PX4CC, but the G19 will be easier for people. No DA or decocking. I'll go with those larger pistols since you said, field use.

For more urban/suburban EDC, not my cup of tea, but probably P365XLs. Don't know if these 50 friends are willing to dress around a gun or learn to use stuff like holster wedges.

[Clusterfrack]

...same pistol set-up needs to be suitable for the same uses as your pistol for fifty of your friends, and you need to set all the pistols up.

I don't have 50 friends.

[TheNewbie]

P-07.

Yes TDA, but I’ll take the extra practice there over the downsides of the Glock for 50 people of various skill sets.


If it were still in production, then maybe the P250.

[MVS]

I don't have 50 friends.

No kidding. I might not have 5 that I would actually call friend enough to outfit with weapons. I have pretty high standards for friends though.

[camsdaddy]

A Glock 26 immediately came to mind. I would trust 50 of them to shoot out of the box. I think the 26 can be shot as is but can also take extensions for those who require a longer grip. The 26 will be easier for all 50 to EDC where a 19 may be large to some depending on who those 50 are.

I think those 50 would be well served with a S&W Model 66. I just don’t know if I trust 50 of them to come out of the box and not have to be sent back. I have not bought a new K frame but several of the more recent J frames did have to return home.

A Ruger SP101 may be perfect here. The sp101 is small enough just about anyone can conceal. The 3” would bring it into a field role and I would trust them to run out of the box without much issue.

[TheNewbie]

Part of my reason for wanting a TDA/DAO gun is as follows.


Even if the end of the world is happening, and we are having to do battle with the one world unity government and roving gangs of pinko commies, without a doubt, more guns will be still be pointed at me by my “friends”.

[TheNewbie]

A Glock 26 immediately came to mind. I would trust 50 of them to shoot out of the box. I think the 26 can be shot as is but can also take extensions for those who require a longer grip. The 26 will be easier for all 50 to EDC where a 19 may be large to some depending on who those 50 are.

I think those 50 would be well served with a S&W Model 66. I just don’t know if I trust 50 of them to come out of the box and not have to be sent back. I have not bought a new K frame but several of the more recent J frames did have to return home.

A Ruger SP101 may be perfect here. The sp101 is small enough just about anyone can conceal. The 3” would bring it into a field role and I would trust them to run out of the box without much issue.


SP101 is a great choice! Plus it’s pretty simple for a revolver.

[Danjojo]

Gen5 G23 MOS with Holosun SCS if just one for all locations and activities, multiple people with different body types and familiarization to dots (3 of the 50 at most)

[CCT125US]

I don't have 50 friends.

Perhaps GJM is planning some sort of conscript army.

[GJM]

Perhaps GJM is planning some sort of conscript army.

If I am bringing the 9mm ammo, I can find a lot more than 50 friends!

[JCN]

Want this thread moved?

Or can we say Glock 19 and close it out?

Glock 20 with 509t?

[WDR]

If I am bringing the 9mm ammo, I can find a lot more than 50 friends!

Not sure if humblebrag, or just the facts, mam.

[Warped Mindless]

Glock 26 or 365 long slide macros

[03RN]

I don't have 50 friends.

I might have 5

I'd be happy with a k frames flavor. My 2yo and 4yo have m64s and my wife has a nickel 2" m15.

[Lester Polfus]

Glock 20 with 509t?

It has to run reliably.

[jandbj]

If not too loose an answer, I'd go with the user-preferred variants of the P365 and Holosun enclosed emitter red dot.

I know many would (with good reason) prefer the G19.5 w/enclosed red dot, but I, and several friends, find the G19 either a bit fat for smallish hands/stubby fingers, and/or it's tougher to conceal in much of some folks' everyday attire.

Nailed it with both options of the 365 variant &/or G19Gen5. EPS carry (red or green), milled preferably over MOS on the 19.

[ST911]

So here is the exercise.


...say Glock 19 and close it out?

This.

[JAD]

I don't have 50 friends.
I’d tell you to buy me a coke, but…

[BillSWPA]

Glock 26 or original model Sig P365, with good tritium sights. Concealable under a wide variety of situations and accurate.

[HCM]

Bone Stock PX4CC, or G19 Gen 5 that comes with Ameriglo sights, and an SCD. My heart wants to pick the PX4CC, but the G19 will be easier for people. No DA or decocking. I'll go with those larger pistols since you said, field use.

For more urban/suburban EDC, not my cup of tea, but probably P365XLs. Don't know if these 50 friends are willing to dress around a gun or learn to use stuff like holster wedges.

Having converted a stock PX4CC to LTT-ish form….

The PX4CC has potential in LTT-ish form but in stock form it’s a turd with a slick grip, bad trigger and oversized controls that get in the way of running the gun.

Having to pick one gun for everyone to use for everything is why the Glock 19 is the Glock 19.

[Clusterfrack]

Glock 20 with 509t?

LOL! I know exactly what you're referring to. We all have guns that we like a lot, and that are reliable. But how much work does that require? If the question was just aimed at me, I know my answer: Prograde P-07 / 509t2. I use it for CCW, in harsh field conditions, and am not concerned that 5-10k a year of practice would cause a problem. I've set up P-07/09's for friends, and I think I'm up to 10 guns so far and all have been trouble free. But I'm not volunteering to do that for 50. And then there's the optic milling issue, and we all have horror stories. A good shop could probably go 50/50 on a milling job, but I don't want to be managing that.

[Clusterfrack]

I assume we've got 50 people with different hand sizes, skill levels, grip strengths, etc. That makes the G19 a better choice than a lot of the other options mentioned so far. It fits nearly everyone, and nearly everyone can shoot it decently well.

[GJM]

My submission -- the Langdon grip anchor and EPS significantly improve this pistol for my use. The Langdon grip anchor makes it shoot like a full size while still concealing like a 19. The EPS gives all weather sealed emitter performance while maintaining a concealment profile.

99471

[HCM]

My submission -- the Langdon grip anchor and EPS significantly improve this pistol for my use. The Langdon grip anchor makes it shoot like a full size while still concealing like a 19. The EPS gives all weather sealed emitter performance while maintaining a concealment profile.

99471

I’d say this with the option for +2 mag extensions for those of us who don’t have tiny Trump hands.

[60167]

365xl with thumb safety on a macro frame. EPS Carry. JMCK Holsters. Done and done.

[Super77]

I would probably just do Glocks. They’re issued en masse to many different military and police units and all those people seems to figure them out. Hell, half these people probably already have their own. Second, equally good choice would probably be M&Ps.

[Kanye Wyoming]

My submission -- the Langdon grip anchor and EPS significantly improve this pistol for my use. The Langdon grip anchor makes it shoot like a full size while still concealing like a 19. The EPS gives all weather sealed emitter performance while maintaining a concealment profile.

99471
I have the exact same setup and it’d be hard to argue against it.

For a do-it-all gun for everybody, I would also put out there the M&P 2.0 3.6 optics ready.


The new stock M&P trigger is quite nice (better than stock Glock trigger).
It holds 15 with the same grip length as a G19.
It takes the 17-rd mags and S&W actually includes well done sleeves in the box.
With the various backstraps (or palm swells) it can be made to fit all of them unless your friends include infants and NBA centers and forwards.
The grip texture is aggressive enough that stippling will never be necessary and can easily be sanded down if someone finds it too aggressive.
While not as light as the G19, at 33.6 oz with 15 + 1 124gr HST the 3.6 is amore than an ounce lighter than the 4.0.
As the name suggests it’s optics ready, and a K footprint CHWS plate is readily available if you don’t want to use the included S&W plate.
It comes from the factory with suppressor height sights so no need to mess with that; they’re plain white dots but they don’t distract, and if you do want to swap out for blacked out sights, or tritium, or whatever your heart’s desire, there are plenty of options available and with the new design you don’t have to worry about the striker block plate and spring thingie going airborne when changing the rear sight.
Pretty much every holster out there is available for the M&P.
No SCD available, but it is available with or without a manual safety, and the safety is a very good one.
A lot of your friends may not do well with the Glock grip angle from the get-go. They won’t have that issue with the M&P.
It shoots very nicely.

[Chuck Whitlock]

If it were still in production, then maybe the P250.

If it were still in production, the P250c with Wilson grip module.


My submission -- the Langdon grip anchor and EPS significantly improve this pistol for my use. The Langdon grip anchor makes it shoot like a full size while still concealing like a 19. The EPS gives all weather sealed emitter performance while maintaining a concealment profile.

99471

My "50" would have to include non-gun persons like some of my kids and their spouses. A DAO SP101 w/ a high visibility front sight would be a good choice, although a lighter hammer spring would be helpful.

In a semi-auto, I'd be torn between a 365XL w/MS in a Wilson grip module, and one of these:

https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/mp-shield-ez

...which was the choice of a non-sworn co-worker with tons of CSI experience. Someone who shows up after bad things happen, and might have to defend herself out of the blue, but isn't out chasing down bad guys.

Understand that my take is taking into account those with smaller-than-average hands.

[Jason M]

"So here is the exercise. Pick one pistol set-up that will cover you for EDC (concealed), for field use in all weather, and to train with. Here is the wrinkle -- that same pistol set-up needs to be suitable for the same uses as your pistol for fifty of your friends, and you need to set all the pistols up. Extra credit if the pistols are likely to run reliably out of the box and as accessorized, and you don't need to get a home equity loan to pay for each one.

This idea came about because I have been shooting a pistol the last few days that fits these criteria perfectly, and was simple enough I could set up dozens of duplicates with a minimum of fuss."

Gun:
G26 (Gen 5) with OEM "Bold" sights
SCD
3x OEM 10 round mags
3x OEM "+2" 12 round mags (If allowed by locale)
2x OEM 15 round model 19 mags (If allowed by locale)

Carriage:
JMCK or DSG AIWB of choice
RCS Perrun OWB or Safariland 7TS.
RCS Vanguard2 with DCC behind belt clip and a dummy cord loop for use in the kit bag.
HPG Kit bag or Waist bag

I recently had this discussion with a friend. We each chose the same path but I opted for the 26. He chose the 19. Rationale was that we live near mag ban states and have folks in our 50 who live there FT. The 10 round options for the G19 are not nearly as reliable as the 10 round mags for the 26.

Glock is a frame which, based on spoken opinion from many users, does not form an instant bond with the shooters hand. It takes a little getting used to for many. The 2 finger grip of the OEM G26 is not a steep learning curve to climb for many. It is easier to carry for many. It is uber reliable. My G26 across all of the available generations are my most reliable Glocks. The Gen5 is very accurate with a wide variety of ammo.

The different mags provide "scalability" for different uses, hand sizes, and settings if allowed by local laws. Carry with the 15rnd mag and a 15rnd reload when in the field with the kit bag. Carry 10rnd or 12rnd for EDC with a 15rnd reload. Carry the 10rnd mag for NPE. I would not feel handicapped with 3 10 rnd mags.

The carriage options cover field, EDC, NPE, and training. Different ammo covers the same three uses. Use the kit bag and vanguard or the perrun in the field. Use the perrun or AIWB for training. Use the vanguard for NPE. My colleague friends my want the option of overt OWB carry and would be good with the 7TS.

The Bold sights on the 26 should be visible in all weather or lighting conditions. They should be sufficient for 2 or 4 legged problems at the most probable encountered distances.

The 19 would be just fine too. Both guns are accurate, all-weather durable, amenable to high round counts, and easily sourced. Either gun would be easy to set up. All of the accessories are easily sourced. The pistols and items spec'ed are pretty economical choices. I think the 26 gets the edge for those qualities AND being reliable with any size OEM Glock mag as well as being easier to conceal for many.

[Duelist]

Glock 26. SCD. Real sights - Ameriglo, Trijicon, factory night sights, whatever - something steel with glow in the dark dot(s). JMCK IWB#3 or similar from Dark Star or something. 2 each 10 round, 12 round, and 15 round magazines. Case or three of ball. 200 HSTs. Done.

Addendum: anyone who doesn’t want to/can’t manage a semiauto gets an SP101 with equivalent carry gear & appropriate ammo.

I also like the HPG chest pack and RCS Vanguard.

[fatdog]

Glock 19.5 with SCD, Ameriglo agent sights, JMCK IWB #3

[mcgivro]

This is super easy…P365XL with EPS Carry.

[DaBigBR]

19 MOS with Holosun SCS and quality metallic irons.

[Noah]

Having converted a stock PX4CC to LTT-ish form….

The PX4CC has potential in LTT-ish form but in stock form it’s a turd with a slick grip, bad trigger and oversized controls that get in the way of running the gun.

Having to pick one gun for everyone to use for everything is why the Glock 19 is the Glock 19.


Thats why I said CC! You're thinking of the plain Compact. The Compact Carry is also a standard/non custom model available from retailers, that comes with Talon grips, Ameriglo sights, stealth levers, and D spring. Buying it from LTT themselves just adds a full trigger job.

[rob_s]

P365


P30sk (https://hk-usa.com/hk-models/p30sk/) V3s


LTT P30s (https://langdontactical.com/hk-p30-da-sa-series-pistols-by-ltt/)

S&W Shield EZ9s (https://www.smith-wesson.com/9ez)


PX4CC (https://www.beretta.com/en-us/pistols/px4-family/)

P365XLs


P-07. (https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-p-07/)

P250.


365 variant


original model Sig P365


PX4CC


365xl (https://www.sigsauer.com/p365-xl.html)


P250c (https://sigsauerarmory.com/sig-sauer-p250c-9mm-police-trade-ins-with-night-sights/)

365XL


P365XL

Sad to say, I had to google most of these. At least the P365 I had an idea of what it looked like. The others I couldn’t even conjure a mental picture. I went ahead and added some links to the above quotes in case others were similar,as.y challenged.

I suppose that taints my answer of “stock Glock 19, Ameriglo sights”.

Also, unless I missed it, no mention of the M&P other than the “ez” model above (which I had to google)?
Not even the 2.0?
https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/mp-m20-compact

[flux]

G19 Gen 5. Though I would be comfortable with a gen 3 or 4 to be honest. Dawson fibre sights. Bunch of spare mags . JM kydex holsters. Simple and effective setup .

[RJ]

Order for Standard Level 3 equipment, individual. Shipping Instructions: FOB Alaska (contact the local agent who may be in some kind of airplane or other on arrival Anchorage)


Line Item 1 Pistol Equipment, Field Expedient, NSN 0340-02-203-9GJM:

Quantity Required: 50 Sets

- Pistol, Sig Sauer, P365XL, sku 365XL-9-BXR3P
- Optic, Holosun, EPS Carry, Red, 6 MOA
- Grip Module, P365 Macro
- Magazine, P365XL, extra, 12 round (1)
- Magazine, P365 Macro, 17 round (3 per set)
- Holster, Vedder Light Tuck IWB (right hand) P365XL, Black
- Holster, JM CK R/C, P365 Macro, Black
- Belt, Mastermind Tactics Specialist
- Loader, Maglula, Hot Pink (Barf Yellow authorized until stocks deplete)
- H/L Foam ear plugs (bag 50)
- Sordin Supreme Pro X Ear Pro (fit Noisefighter Gel Seals prior to shipment)
- Battery, CR1620 (2 per set)
- Case, soft, range use, LA Police Gear
- Case, Shipping, Pelican, (Orange)


Line Item 2 Pistol Equipment, Field Expedient, Logistic Support Kits, NSN 4050-22-239-9GJM:

Quantity Required: 5

- Optic, Holosun EPS Carry Red, 6 MOA
- Screw, Torx,, McMaster Carr M3 Flat Head, sku 94414A714 (4 per kit)
- Trigger Bar Spring Kit, P365 (2 per kit)
- Receiver Pin Kit, P365 (2 per kit)
- Slide, P365XL, complete, spare (1 per kit)
- Slide, P365, complete, spare (1 per kit)
- Grip Module, P365XL, spare (1 per kit)
- Grip Module, P365 Macro, spare (1 per kit)
- Battery, CR1620 (5 per kit)
- Case, Shipping, Pelican (OD Green)

Line Item 3 Pistol, Field Expedient, User Service/Special Purpose Kit, NSN 8700-338-8482-9GJM:

Quantity Required: 5

- Holster, Vedder Light Tuck (Left hand)
- Holster, Vedder, Pocket Locker (right hand)
- Holster, Vedder, Pocket Locker (left hand)
- Holster, JM CK R/C, P365 Macro, Black (left hand)
- Grip Module, P365
- Slide Assy, P365, complete
- Magazine, 10 round, P365 (2 per kit)
- Extension, Magazine, Taran Tactical, P365 Macro (+4 rounds) (2 per Kit)
- Case, Shipping, Pelican (OD Green)

[GJM]

I find the other pistol I have been shooting lately also to be very attractive, and that is the XL upper/Macro lower with an EPS Carry.

99480

The reasons I pick the Glock 19 are -- I shoot it better, magazines are more available and cheaper, the SCD, availability of retention holsters for field use, weather resistance in the field, the ability to use a wider range of optics like the Acro, 407CO and RMR/SRO, and all the Glock parts and available aftermarket support.

[JohnO]

Waiting on GJM to enlighten us on his morphing one size fits all discovery. :cool:

[Darth_Uno]

So it's really the "if you could only have one" question, but you have to get 50 people to agree on it. Best of luck. :cool:

I'd like to say 19 + optic (and which exact optic muddies the waters even further). If we can imagine that all 50 of your friends will train with whatever you give them, there's still plenty of people that won't or can't carry a 19. Heck, there's guys in this thread.

[David S.]

Glock 19.5 or M&P 2.0.

ETA: on second thought, I think a LEM gun, either P30 or P2000 makes a lot of sense (see DB threads).

[4RNR]

Desert Eagle .50 all around!!!

But seriously, police trade G19 or something in that category. Im really not picky. CZ P10C, M&P, PPQ/PDP. .... If 19 is a bit too large Hellcat PRO. Basically the same size and capacity just slightly slimmed all around. I know Shield Plus and 365XL exist but they have varying mag capacities. the PRO is 15rd flush fit and thats it. I think theres actually a sale now or was just durring the holidays where the PRO with 5 extra mags (6 total) was $550. If youre outfitting 50 people mags can be expensive.

[1Rangemaster]

Jason M
@RJ
You gentlemen have pretty organized thinking!

GJM : I’m pretty invested in the Glock platform, and to your OP, I’d go with some generation of Glock 19. It seems that Glock has basically committed to the 5th generation. My personal weapon is a Gen5 19MOS with an ACRO and (usually) a TLR8G attached. I say usually because I have a second 19 with Heinie sights, and sometimes I’ll switch slides to get a little iron sight practice. The rest is personal choice and contextual. For example, I’d stick with the ACRO; I think the 2032 battery is a little easier to source. But I wouldn’t turn down a 19 set up with the EPS like you’ve shown. I’d have a threaded barrel and suppressor if budget is not limited. Some standard mags(I am fortunate enough to live in a non-ban area), some +baseplate equipped 17 mags for the reload, etc. 500-1000 rounds of ball per quarter for sustainment practice, 50 rounds of some vetted carry ammo-I lean toward 135-147 grains and a mag or two of “penetrators” per year.
I like the extended slide stop and mag catch personally. Holsters would be JMCK and Safariland duty, depending on context.

My only caveat is the G26 has a little edge on concealment. Might sneak that by you on my ankle…;)
Seriously, a couple of fellows with serious overseas experience discussing this same situation, opted for the 26. “It’s a 9, and you can find mags to fit just about everywhere”. So for deep cover/NPE/low profile, whatever-G26. Orange BOLD night sights, an array of holsters, done in that context.
Nice little exercise; thanks for the challenge.

Edited to add: As I define friends, I don’t have that many either. But my daughters have 19s. And, by my casual count, about two thirds here so far agree.

[Stephanie B]

Are any of those fifty likely to put the gun away and not touch it for ten years until they hear a bump in the night?

Because if they are, then I'm voting for a gun that is as simple as possible to use: A police trade-in Model 64. New, a Taurus 856 (if Caleb's right and they've got their QA/QC shit together).

[Clusterfrack]

I find the other pistol I have been shooting lately also to be very attractive, and that is the XL upper/Macro lower with an EPS Carry.
...
The reasons I pick the Glock 19 are -- I shoot it better, magazines are more available and cheaper, the SCD, availability of retention holsters for field use, weather resistance in the field, the ability to use a wider range of optics like the Acro, 407CO and RMR/SRO, and all the Glock parts and available aftermarket support.

365s are small, easy to shoot, and everyone I know who has one is happy with it.

But if I were limited to one gun for high-round count, hard use under challenging conditions... and also had to recommend that gun to all my friends and loved ones, it wouldn't be a striker-fired Sig.

I'd sacrifice size, beauty, and a bit of shootability for reliability, durability, ease of diagnosis & maintenance, and parts availability. Which gun would you bet on after 20 years of hard use?

[Outpost75]

Back in the day (1984) did this for real.


3-inch barrel stainless, round butt, Ruger Speed Six .357 with lanyard ring. Customs and Border Patrol version .

Requirement was to run 10,000 rounds with no malfunctions and no parts replacements.

My armorer school build gun is still going strong.

[TGS]

I find the other pistol I have been shooting lately also to be very attractive, and that is the XL upper/Macro lower with an EPS Carry.

....

The reasons I pick the Glock 19 are -- I shoot it better, magazines are more available and cheaper, the SCD, availability of retention holsters for field use, weather resistance in the field, the ability to use a wider range of optics like the Acro, 407CO and RMR/SRO, and all the Glock parts and available aftermarket support.

The Glock 19 isn't a great option as the only carry gun for a larger group of people, though. I conceal a Glock 19 every day, you can, lots of the people here can, but I don't think that's realistic to a larger group of people unless those 50 people are simple clones of ourself. That's why my agency issues everyone a Glock 19 and a Glock 26, not one or the other. There's plenty of people who will leave a Glock 19 home due to a real or perceived burden that would otherwise carry a Glock 26 or one of the larger variants of the P365 everyday.

[JCN]

365s are small, easy to shoot, and everyone I know who has one is happy with it.

But if I were to be limited to one gun for high-round count, hard use under challenging conditions... and also had to recommend that gun to all my friends and loved ones, it wouldn't be a striker-fired Sig.

I'd sacrifice size, beauty, and a bit of shootability for reliability, durability, ease of diagnosis & maintenance, and parts availability. Which gun would you bet on after 20 years of hard use?

GJM

I think G19 is the runaway favorite for very good reason. It’s an awesomely capable gun.

I could possibly make a case for a Shadow Systems MR920 for the direct mount option of different optics (no plates) and different grip angle options.

[Crazy Dane]

I though this, "for field use in all weather", was going to get us at least something that could run .45 Super but instead we get a 9MM for manbearpig country.




My submission -- the Langdon grip anchor and EPS significantly improve this pistol for my use. The Langdon grip anchor makes it shoot like a full size while still concealing like a 19. The EPS gives all weather sealed emitter performance while maintaining a concealment profile.

99471

[Clusterfrack]

...make a case for a Shadow Systems MR920 for the direct mount option of different optics (no plates) and different grip angle options.

How much do you want to bet that Shadow Systems will not be around in 20 years? Or that some Glock parts incompatibility issue will crop up?

A Glock clone would be low on my list.

[WobblyPossum]

Since I come from an institutional firearms background my first thought is a group of people issued something who don’t have a choice on whether to carry it or not so basically GJM’s gun, a Gen5 G19 with an optic, probably a Holosun EPS, and a SCD. Everyone would get multiple holsters: overt duty rig with retention device, an OWB strong side for something less overt, and an IWB or AIWB for concealment depending on preference. Maybe throw in some Enigmas for more specialized personnel having to conceal in suits or tuxedos. The EPS probably isn’t as bombproof as an ACRO and the top-down screws are weaker than the rail/clamp interface, but the ACRO is a pretty big optic and if concealed carry is a requirement then I’d rather sacrifice a little of that durability for much easier concealment.

If we’re talking 50 private citizens who will just leave the gun at home if it would take more effort to conceal it than they want to put in, then a Gen5 G26 direct milled for an EPS with a SCD. It’s small enough for most people who are willing to put in any effort to carry a gun to actually carry. With an optic the short sight radius doesn’t have any negative effects. People with larger hands or who want a guaranteed three finger grip can use the factory 12 round mags. Mags from the larger guns and a grip sleeve would be used for field roles.

I would trust 50 Glocks to function out of the box. They’re durable, reliable and accurate. They’re also simple to maintain and keep functioning. At least from an institutional aspect of equipping a large group of people with handguns and then maintaining all those guns, it’s tough to beat Glocks.

[1Rangemaster]

Agree with Clusterfrack. If I think back 20 +years when I started with Glock platforms, there have been obvious changes, but the support for the pistols has increased exponentially if anything.
Many who have started with a clone have come to regret it.
As for field use, I'm hoping over the next few months to whack some feral pigs with some 147 "penetrators", and will report back if lucky in the field. The few reports I've seen lead me to believe with good placement there is a high probability of success.
Geez, where have I heard that before...

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Interesting that a focus is on the G26, my EDC with Trijicons. Gen 3, see no need to upgrade now. I'm going to argue against an RDS if this is for a group widely varying in ability and training. Despite really liking my SRO Glock, I see the optic as an unnecessary complication for the majority of casual users and the need for extra set ups. For years, folks have shot Glocks with some decent irons quite well.

I would have guessed the G19. My kid who is a short young lady (which annoys her greatly as you are supposed to tower over your parents) can shoot a G19 just fine. When about 16, I was curious about her racking the gun as we see folks who say someone can't rack. After super carefully clearing the gun, I showed her how to rack (no special gyrations), she did it and said: So what.

True she was into weights a bit.

However, as the finale of White Lotus 2nd Season has shown us, even a rank beginner can take down an assassin and accomplices!

[BillSWPA]

Considering the concealed carry role, a G19 sized gun will require some type of cover garment. That will not work in hot weather when there is a need to wear a tucked in shirt. It is also much bigger than desired for NPE use, where the acceptable risk of getting caught is essentially zero. The G26 and P365 give up little in accuracy, but are much more likely to actually be carried.

[GJM]

I love the Glock 26, but what takes it out of the running for this for me, is that it is currently not available, optics ready. Hint, hint, Glock!

[BillSWPA]

I love the Glock 26, but what takes it out of the running for this for me, is that it is currently not available, optics ready. Hint, hint, Glock!

I would hesitate to make an optics-equipped gun the only gun, since some carry methods I use frequently would not work. However, a G26 with an optic carried IWB could be very appealing.

[MickAK]

Which magazines would you bet on after 20 years of hard use?

While I haven't had a 365XL magazine failure yet Glock magazines can take a lot more abuse.

For the field use requirement, people fall. And drop stuff.

You can make a good retention chest rig for the 365 but even if I had 50 friends by the time I got done doing all that sewing I wouldn't like most of them.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Do I have to alter or buy new pants for 50 friends to fit an IWB holster or AIWB holster? Now, if optics came with the gun, zeroed, etc. I might consider that but setting up 50 optics and checking them - not for me.

Friend has a G26 that he had an optic added. First time match out, it fell off. He was also of the opinion that when you put on an optic, you take off the irons. Oh, well.

[GJM]

YVK just called me with his solution. If you really like your friends, buy 50 365 FCUs and let them configure them as they like. If you don't like those friends, he said to buy 50 320 FCUs!

[Up1911Fan]

I would also suggest the P365 series route. Pick an X or XL slide with and EPS Carry or K series dot and the grip module of choice.

While I've been using the 365 series guns a lot more, I still consider a Gen5 G19 with a direct milled 509T and a TLR-7A to be my do all pistol.

[medmo]

My submission -- the Langdon grip anchor and EPS significantly improve this pistol for my use. The Langdon grip anchor makes it shoot like a full size while still concealing like a 19. The EPS gives all weather sealed emitter performance while maintaining a concealment profile.

99471

You were supposed to say G23 GEN5 MOS with EPS. That was my guess. 40S&W, field use. I guessed wrong. :)

[gato naranja]

YVK just called me with his solution. If you really like your friends, buy 50 365 FCUs and let them configure them as they like. If you don't like those friends, he said to buy 50 320 FCUs!

Oh, that is good!

[JonInWA]

My choices:

Gen3 (but I wouldn't be opposed to a Gen5) Glock G19 with Leupold DeltaPoint Micro, Trijicon tritium OEM front sight, Pierce Grips butt plug, Glock extended slide release, Hogue HandAll Beavertail grip sleeve (and I just may have to try one of those Langdon Grip Anchors)

https://i.imgur.com/uVol30lh.jpg

Ruger Security Six, with Trausch grip, Millett Orange Bar front sight, updated contemporary Ruger white outline rear sight

https://i.imgur.com/SaYcth4h.jpg

Ruger stainless steel Blackhawk convertible .357/.38/9mm (Bet no one saw a single action revolver coming up in the mix....)

https://i.imgur.com/6ehw6wAh.jpg

Ruger GP100 (but the stainless version for weather imperviousness)

https://i.imgur.com/E3jX8oNh.jpg

Best, Jon

[4RNR]

Considering the concealed carry role, a G19 sized gun will require some type of cover garment. That will not work in hot weather when there is a need to wear a tucked in shirt. It is also much bigger than desired for NPE use, where the acceptable risk of getting caught is essentially zero. The G26 and P365 give up little in accuracy, but are much more likely to actually be carried.

OK but how much are you really truely out in the hot weather? Summers here are 95+ along with humidity. I wear jeans, undershirt and a tshirt and almost never break asweat. House - AC, work - AC car - AC, any store/busness/mall/shopping area - AC. The only place there isnt one is the parking lot between the car and buildings. wouldnt the 26 and 365 require and cover garment as well?

[4RNR]

Do I have to alter or buy new pants for 50 friends to fit an IWB holster or AIWB holster? Now, if optics came with the gun, zeroed, etc. I might consider that but setting up 50 optics and checking them - not for me.

Friend has a G26 that he had an optic added. First time match out, it fell off. He was also of the opinion that when you put on an optic, you take off the irons. Oh, well.

Do those friends already use belts?

[BillSWPA]

OK but how much are you really truely out in the hot weather? Summers here are 95+ along with humidity. I wear jeans, undershirt and a tshirt and almost never break asweat. House - AC, work - AC car - AC, any store/busness/mall/shopping area - AC. The only place there isnt one is the parking lot between the car and buildings. wouldnt the 26 and 365 require and cover garment as well?

I am self-employed so I get to dress how I like, but I always try to look business casual or at least smart casual during normal office hours in case I unexpectedly have a client drop by my office. This means a tucked in shirt. I also have clients with widely differing opinions about carrying guns, and most of mine do not know that I carry (some do, and are in shooting or related fields).

I pocket carry 5 days a week for about 6-7 months every year, which allows me to look business casual without a cover garment. With relaxed fit pleated dress slacks and a well designed pocket holster (Aholster or Pocket Concealment Systems Tomahawk), a G26 or P365 is quite pocketable.

Meeting with a new client in an untucked shirt is not the way to earn their confidence or their business. Wearing a jacket when the temperature is 80F-90F and refusing to take it off will be noticed.

If you work around ladies, they will notice things that men will not notice. They will gossip about those things until they figure out why those things are out of place. That big bulge that you think is well hidden will be the subject of conversation.

If any of the hypothetical 50 people in the original post's question are female, 99.9% of them hate many of the things we do to hide guns, and 99.9% of them would never compromise the way they dress to hide a gun. If you are going to set something up that they will actually find useful, you must take that into account.

Considering all of this, the need for a small gun is quite significant.

[MolonLabe416]

For non-dedicated folks, I’d go with what I already recommend to people unlike us - A K Frame-ish, six shot revolver.

[Stephanie B]

Back in the day (1984) did this for real.


3-inch barrel stainless, round butt, Ruger Speed Six .357 with lanyard ring. Customs and Border Patrol version .

Requirement was to run 10,000 rounds with no malfunctions and no parts replacements.

My armorer school build gun is still going strong.

Oooh. Photos!!!!

[4RNR]

I am self-employed so I get to dress how I like, but I always try to look business casual or at least smart casual during normal office hours in case I unexpectedly have a client drop by my office. This means a tucked in shirt. I also have clients with widely differing opinions about carrying guns, and most of mine do not know that I carry (some do, and are in shooting or related fields).

I pocket carry 5 days a week for about 6-7 months every year, which allows me to look business casual without a cover garment. With relaxed fit pleated dress slacks and a well designed pocket holster (Aholster or Pocket Concealment Systems Tomahawk), a G26 or P365 is quite pocketable.

Meeting with a new client in an untucked shirt is not the way to earn their confidence or their business. Wearing a jacket when the temperature is 80F-90F and refusing to take it off will be noticed.

If you work around ladies, they will notice things that men will not notice. They will gossip about those things until they figure out why those things are out of place. That big bulge that you think is well hidden will be the subject of conversation.

If any of the hypothetical 50 people in the original post's question are female, 99.9% of them hate many of the things we do to hide guns, and 99.9% of them would never compromise the way they dress to hide a gun. If you are going to set something up that they will actually find useful, you must take that into account.

Considering all of this, the need for a small gun is quite significant.

"Work" is probably something that should have been left out, i guess. Its one of those things that vary from place to place and even city to city or state to state. When i worked in an "office" setting untucked tshirt was fine as long as you didnt look like a slob. So, no baggy shirts or anything with inappropriate pictures or phrases. i always carried, over time some people knew, none of them cared. Gossip and subject of conversations i was pretty good at stopping in its tracks. Just have to be upfront with people and not play office politics. But again, "office" means different things to different people (is it a dealership, medical, gov, construction site, corp... etc...) and have their state, local, federal and private laws.

The other thing is why are we arming 50 friends? Is it just because i won the lottery and feel like buying presents but dont want to shop around for individual products or is it because the atmosphere is tense and highly likely that something terrible is going to happen? If im looking at the women I know and their clothing styles then the choice of G19 or a 365 wont matter because neither will work. Theyre basically going to be the same thing. Maybe a Derringer, or the NAA 22lr revolver. Years ago I got my sister a Kahr PM9 and she still cant carry it. Too big, doesnt fit anywhere!

[BillSWPA]

"Work" is probably something that should have been left out, i guess. Its one of those things that vary from place to place and even city to city or state to state. When i worked in an "office" setting untucked tshirt was fine as long as you didnt look like a slob. So, no baggy shirts or anything with inappropriate pictures or phrases. i always carried, over time some people knew, none of them cared. Gossip and subject of conversations i was pretty good at stopping in its tracks. Just have to be upfront with people and not play office politics. But again, "office" means different things to different people (is it a dealership, medical, gov, construction site, corp... etc...) and have their state, local, federal and private laws.

The other thing is why are we arming 50 friends? Is it just because i won the lottery and feel like buying presents but dont want to shop around for individual products or is it because the atmosphere is tense and highly likely that something terrible is going to happen? If im looking at the women I know and their clothing styles then the choice of G19 or a 365 wont matter because neither will work. Theyre basically going to be the same thing. Maybe a Derringer, or the NAA 22lr revolver. Years ago I got my sister a Kahr PM9 and she still cant carry it. Too big, doesnt fit anywhere!

Work is a tough situation but one that accounts for s significant portion of most of our days. I have been fortunate not to have worked for anyone with an explicit no guns policy, and my last employer (and perhaps 2nd to last as well) did a criminal background check. At least one employer knew I had concealed handgun licenses in more than 1 state (and in fact made a casual comment about it once) and never told me not to carry. I always assumed, however, that being seen with a gun in the office would not have a positive effect on my career, and chose accordingly.

Solutions for the ladies are difficult but not impossible. I agree that even a P365 will be a problem, but at least that size gives us a fighting chance of finding a solution.

[GJM]

"Work" is probably something that should have been left out, i guess. Its one of those things that vary from place to place and even city to city or state to state. When i worked in an "office" setting untucked tshirt was fine as long as you didnt look like a slob. So, no baggy shirts or anything with inappropriate pictures or phrases. i always carried, over time some people knew, none of them cared. Gossip and subject of conversations i was pretty good at stopping in its tracks. Just have to be upfront with people and not play office politics. But again, "office" means different things to different people (is it a dealership, medical, gov, construction site, corp... etc...) and have their state, local, federal and private laws.

The other thing is why are we arming 50 friends? Is it just because i won the lottery and feel like buying presents but dont want to shop around for individual products or is it because the atmosphere is tense and highly likely that something terrible is going to happen? If im looking at the women I know and their clothing styles then the choice of G19 or a 365 wont matter because neither will work. Theyre basically going to be the same thing. Maybe a Derringer, or the NAA 22lr revolver. Years ago I got my sister a Kahr PM9 and she still cant carry it. Too big, doesnt fit anywhere!

50 is just shorthand for something rack grade as opposed to a custom project like a Yost 1911, or something that takes eight months at Gray Guns getting trigger work. If you can easily build five, you could scale that to 10, 20, 50 or 100.

Also, different people are going to come out on different ends of the concealment vs field use and training continuum. My bias is as much field and training as concealment, because I walk in the field and train most days, while having the luxury of not worrying about losing my job if I print a bit. I also want reasonable shooting performance. Today, when I finished up shooting my Open gun, I ended the practice session by grabbing the kind of rig I might use in the field and shooting the array with the Glock 19. Compared to my Open gun, I draw the Glock faster, transition about the same, and split slower.


https://youtu.be/3Q7utfA5cNY

[03RN]

So I'm trying to think of my friends. My wife and kids are set as we stand like I said.

snow white already has a 3" sokol k frame, my buddy Wayne in RI has a detective special so he can use my speed loaders, my buddy Sam has a m19 carry comp, and my buddy chuck will have to deal with a spare k frame same with my 2 brother in laws and sister. I think at that point I'm out of friends and guns.

[nalesq]

For the vast majority of random muggles, if there is to be any hope of getting them to actually carry a projectile weapon around regularly and discretely in an urban environment and practice meaningfully with it, I would issue something like a Ruger LCR-22 with lasergrips.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[03RN]

50 is just shorthand for something rack grade as opposed to a custom project like a Yost 1911, or something that takes eight months at Gray Guns getting trigger work. If you can easily build five, you could scale that to 10, 20, 50 or 100.

Also, different people are going to come out on different ends of the concealment vs field use and training continuum. My bias is as much field and training as concealment, because I walk in the field and train most days, while having the luxury of not worrying about losing my job if I print a bit. I also want reasonable shooting performance. Today, when I finished up shooting my Open gun, I ended the practice session by grabbing the kind of rig I might use in the field and shooting the array with the Glock 19. Compared to my Open gun, I draw the Glock faster, transition about the same, and split slower.


https://youtu.be/3Q7utfA5cNY

That's actually why I love 3" k frames. It conceals in a npe and handles the field need as well as anything.

99494
99497

https://youtu.be/RBzjRv58G-I

https://youtu.be/N-FkKXIT5pg

[JHC]

My very first thought. But I am biased... and wearing an RMR'd G19.5 AIWB right now.

That’s my answer. I plan to have one with an EPS in near future

[Sig_Fiend]

If I was building my 50 man posse for the end of the world (joking), for pistols it would be: G19.5 MOS, TangoDown plates (because steel), ACRO P-2, and probably Ameriglo sights.

If time, opportunity, and expense allowed, I'd get the non-MOS and send them to ATEI for ACRO cuts to simplify parts count. If we're thinking futuristically and if they ever materialize large scale, the OEM ACRO cut slide would be ideal.

I say ACRO because of the mount design. I think it stands the best chance of persisting and potentially seeing adoption from other companies. It's also an easier and more robust mount design to maintain across many guns IMO.

To build and maintain 50 guns yourself, a 9mm Glock makes the most sense IMO. Stupid easy to handle any work or maintenance within minutes and with minimal tools.

Also, the issue of parts availability. I'd stock plenty of spares. For the gen5's, out of 10 total springs, 7 of them are round coil compression springs, 1 is straight spring wire. Worst case scenario, units of similar specs can be sourced from McMaster or numerous other non-gun places.

[Lost River]

I have not read the thread past the first 4 posts but I immediately thought " "Grab a bunch of Glock 19s and be done."

That formula has been working all over the globe. Literally. From various SMUs, to U.S. government agencies, even to the Iraqi police academy, where the average IP could jack up a hockey puck.



Just go to the rack and grab a G19 and call it done. :)

https://i.imgur.com/NVwUjc9.jpg

[GJM]

That's actually why I love 3" k frames. It conceals in a npe and handles the field need as well as anything.

99494
99497

https://youtu.be/RBzjRv58G-I

https://youtu.be/N-FkKXIT5pg

Your shoot that revolver very well. What is your plan if your problem takes more than six cartridges?

[03RN]

Your shoot that revolver very well. What is your plan if your problem takes more than six cartridges?

Maneuvering, reloading, using tactics if necessary.

As a private citizen in a rural area capacity really isn't something I get hung up on.

[GJM]

Maneuvering, reloading, using tactics if necessary.

As a private citizen in a rural area capacity really isn't something I get hung up on.

I have no idea what a defensive encounter might look like for me, but even if the risk of needing a magazine or more is low, why would you want to have to "maneuver and reload using tactics" when you could just stay in the fight with 15 cartridges before you have to reload?

[BillSWPA]

The summer of 2020 caused me to dismiss any assumptions I had about what my fight might look like if it ever happens.

[03RN]

I have no idea what a defensive encounter might look like for me, but even if the risk of needing a magazine or more is low, why would you want to have to "maneuver and reload using tactics" when you could just stay in the fight with 15 cartridges before you have to reload?

Because even when I've been shooting at insergants with a 15 round handgun I was moving to cover and capacity was moot. I fought through Fallujah with an 8round shotgun. The fallacy of needing some high capacity magazine I swear comes from Magpul training promos where Costa and Haley are standing there flat footed, reloading, and finishing their magdump. And I like Magpul training videos but their training promos aren't realistic. They're a commercial.

I hope by "staying in the fight" you don't mean just standing there. Because no matter how many rounds you may fire in a defensive shooting you should be seeking cover which really mitigates capacity.

[JAH 3rd]

Anything HK or Beretta.

[4RNR]

50 is just shorthand for something rack grade as opposed to a custom project like a Yost 1911, or something that takes eight months at Gray Guns getting trigger work. If you can easily build five, you could scale that to 10, 20, 50 or 100.

Also, different people are going to come out on different ends of the concealment vs field use and training continuum. My bias is as much field and training as concealment, because I walk in the field and train most days, while having the luxury of not worrying about losing my job if I print a bit. I also want reasonable shooting performance. Today, when I finished up shooting my Open gun, I ended the practice session by grabbing the kind of rig I might use in the field and shooting the array with the Glock 19. Compared to my Open gun, I draw the Glock faster, transition about the same, and split slower.


https://youtu.be/3Q7utfA5cNYI get it. I was just going with the number given.

I think if you just want to make sure everyone you know is armed and you can't ask them to slightly change clothes then you have to go with the lowest common denominator. Some people can conceal 50BMG, others barely have enough pocket space for a credit card. So something thin, light and small. Keltec/Ruger 32/380.

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[breakingtime91]

Because even when I've been shooting at insergants with a 15 round handgun I was moving to cover and capacity was moot. I fought through Fallujah with an 8round shotgun. The fallacy of needing some high capacity magazine I swear comes from Magpul training promos where Costa and Haley are standing there flat footed, reloading, and finishing their magdump. And I like Magpul training videos but their training promos aren't realistic. They're a commercial.

I hope by "staying in the fight" you don't mean just standing there. Because no matter how many rounds you may fire in a defensive shooting you should be seeking cover which really mitigates capacity.

My squad leader, a fallujah veteran, used to cuss us out if he caught us doing a bolt lock reload during a gun fight. He said it meant we hadn't shot, moved, and reassessed. Because if we had reassessed we should of been doing a tactical reload. We did get into a bad near ambush where we all ended up going to bolt lock several times. He forgave us that one time :p

[breakingtime91]

It's really hard to beat a glock 19, decent irons or red dot, and extra magazines and parts. The gen 5s are just as accurate as anything else oem. I am doing a experiment soon comparing the g26 to a g48 to see which fills my new mexico warm weather gun requirement. I can carry a g19, but man does it get hot.

[Utm]

Because even when I've been shooting at insergants with a 15 round handgun I was moving to cover and capacity was moot. I fought through Fallujah with an 8round shotgun. The fallacy of needing some high capacity magazine I swear comes from Magpul training promos where Costa and Haley are standing there flat footed, reloading, and finishing their magdump. And I like Magpul training videos but their training promos aren't realistic. They're a commercial.

I hope by "staying in the fight" you don't mean just standing there. Because no matter how many rounds you may fire in a defensive shooting you should be seeking cover which really mitigates capacity.
Capacity matters more than a reload for private citizens

[claymore504]

I'll play. As others have stated, I am not even close to 50 friends;). I prefer to carry something small like the P365XL, Shield or LCR. I could carry something bigger and have tried many options in the past, but at 5'4" I really have to make it work. If it was just for me, there would be no doubt it would be my CZ P07. I do carry it, but only while on Army National Guard duty, since my uniform top conceals it great.

So, the handgun I would pic would be the M&P M2.0 OR Compact 9mm. I chose OR model because it solves the one issue I had with the M&P and that is the striker block channel could not be accessed unless the rear sight was removed which is a giant PIA. I prefer DA/SA, but new shooters and even non-experienced shooters just do better wth striker fired and most people will not put in the training to learn DA/SA. The P365 X Macro might be a great option as well, but I have zero expereince with one.

[45dotACP]

This is basically asking what type of gun should be issued to a police department or the members of a cult...either way I am interested to see where the thread goes.

The answer is not a glock 19.

Giving 50 people a gun means some of those people are good shooters with safe gun handling and some will nearly shoot themselves the first chance they pick the thing up.

Even if they are all my friends, not all my friends are gun people. But even worse...some of my friends are GUN PEOPLE and will immediately try to bolt on all manner of ATI catalog nonsense to the gun and try to get the trigger as short and light as possible and bypass all the safeties.

I'm gonna go with 03RN and say they should all get DAO 3"K frames in .357 magnum.

Maybe a runner up to a HK45C LEM if you're worried about Kodiak bears and wanna launch some .45 super but I don't freaking know, I don’t live in Alaska or Montana or wherever large aggressive carnivores call home. That's way outside my lane. I just like .45s

In my state you don't need to worry about "field use" unless you mean a gray squirrel with a Chicago attitude.

If I become one of the thimble-full of people killed because I didn't have enough capacity then my 50 friends will avenge me I'm sure.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[GJM]

This is basically asking what type of gun should be issued to a police department or the members of a cult...either way I am interested to see where the thread goes.

The answer is not a glock 19.


Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

I said this a few pages back:

50 is just shorthand for something rack grade as opposed to a custom project like a Yost 1911, or something that takes eight months at Gray Guns getting trigger work. If you can easily build five, you could scale that to 10, 20, 50 or 100.

Not looking for a LCD choice for the masses, but rather something a reasonably skilled shooter would pick. Everyone will have a different opinion but my priorities are optic capable, able to conceal while shooting at a reasonably high level, have parts and accessory support, and be suitable for carrying and shooting in crappy weather. The Gen 5 19 MOS with a sealed emitter optic like the EPS and the Langdon grip anchor meets that objective better than anything else I have or know about, but I am interested in what others think.

[45dotACP]

I said this a few pages back:

50 is just shorthand for something rack grade as opposed to a custom project like a Yost 1911, or something that takes eight months at Gray Guns getting trigger work. If you can easily build five, you could scale that to 10, 20, 50 or 100.

Not looking for a LCD choice for the masses, but rather something a reasonably skilled shooter would pick. Everyone will have a different opinion but my priorities are optic capable, able to conceal while shooting at a reasonably high level, have parts and accessory support, and be suitable for carrying and shooting in crappy weather. The Gen 5 19 MOS with a sealed emitter optic like the EPS and the Langdon grip anchor meets that objective better than anything else I have or know about, but I am interested in what others think.

So that's a no to the cult then?

Harumph.

Personally, I think the grip anchor is an interesting idea, but probably won't salvage my inability to work with a Glock 19's grip. The CZ P07 or 92X compact has been my "there's a bunch of them and I can make another one just like it whenever I need.

Plus it gives me the peace of mind of TDA. Especially now in the winter time when I may be wearing gloves, I worry about a striker fired gun.

[GJM]

So that's a no to the cult then?

Harumph.

Personally, I think the grip anchor is an interesting idea, but probably won't salvage my inability to work with a Glock 19's grip. The CZ P07 or 92X compact has been my "there's a bunch of them and I can make another one just like it whenever I need.

Plus it gives me the peace of mind of TDA. Especially now in the winter time when I may be wearing gloves, I worry about a striker fired gun.

I remember when getting a decock only Beretta require knowing Bill Wilson and staying tuned to GunBroker almost full time. It's great how many awesome pistols are readily available now.

[JHC]

I said this a few pages back:

50 is just shorthand for something rack grade as opposed to a custom project like a Yost 1911, or something that takes eight months at Gray Guns getting trigger work. If you can easily build five, you could scale that to 10, 20, 50 or 100.

Not looking for a LCD choice for the masses, but rather something a reasonably skilled shooter would pick. Everyone will have a different opinion but my priorities are optic capable, able to conceal while shooting at a reasonably high level, have parts and accessory support, and be suitable for carrying and shooting in crappy weather. The Gen 5 19 MOS with a sealed emitter optic like the EPS and the Langdon grip anchor meets that objective better than anything else I have or know about, but I am interested in what others think.

I'm tracking.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVdRTQNlMck

[Clusterfrack]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230103/33bdd1d9f0c7d3af5937f1d77dcf998c.jpg
It’s comforting to know that 48 of you like that I have less than 50 friends.

[BN]

I don't have 50 friends either. And the few friends I do have are already equipped with multiple guns. ;)

If I was going to equip 50 of my close acquaintances, I would give them all a Glock 19 with 3 mags. Any Gen, any sights. I feel the learning curve for a red dot is too great for many of my acquaintances. GJM probably has 50 friends who could use a dot.

I would save enough on not buying red dots, that I would also equip each with a 9mm LCR with a pocket holster.

[CSW]

I don't want 50 friends.
Too much drama.

But in the theme of the thread :

Glock 26, gen 3, and Hackathorn night sights.

Or, 4" Model 13 Smiths.

[45dotACP]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230103/33bdd1d9f0c7d3af5937f1d77dcf998c.jpg
It’s comforting to know that 48 of you like that I have less than 50 friends.Yeah if 50 people liked your post that would have been awkward

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[Half Moon]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230103/33bdd1d9f0c7d3af5937f1d77dcf998c.jpg
ItÂ’s comforting to know that 48 of you like that I have less than 50 friends.

Piled on another like. The sky's the limit 😜

[Totem Polar]

Clusterfrack, if you get to 50, you can count on me to unlike your post. What are friends for?

[Clusterfrack]

Clusterfrack, if you get to 50, you can count on me to unlike your post. What are friends for?

Thanks buddy. Good to know I can count on you.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230103/76fea6da361c268356f515f11d933280.jpg

[Totem Polar]

Thanks buddy. Good to know I can count on you.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230103/76fea6da361c268356f515f11d933280.jpg

Done.

[GJM]

As a red dot shooter, my selection process starts with how red dot friendly is it. If it isn't, that pistol is off the table for me. I used to think I preferred a slide direct milled for the RMR footprint or Acro, but the Holosun EPS educated me as to why a MOS type system helps future proof what you select. Who knows what the next even better EPS optic will be and what footprint it has?

Clusterfrack, the reason you don't have 50 friends is you are such a hard ass moderator -- lighten up and you might get four or five.

[JAD]

It’s comforting to know that 48 of you like that I have less than 50 friends.

It's worth remembering that the Like button is multifunctional. It can also indicate simple agreement to an obvious fact.

[Up1911Fan]

As a red dot shooter, my selection process starts with how red dot friendly is it. If it isn't, that pistol is off the table for me. I used to think I preferred a slide direct milled for the RMR footprint or Acro, but the Holosun EPS educated me as to why a MOS type system helps future proof what you select. Who knows what the next even better EPS optic will be and what footprint it has?

Clusterfrack, the reason you don't have 50 friends is you are such a hard ass moderator -- lighten up and you might get four or five.


I'll start this by saying I have zero EPS experience. However I have 3 EPS Carry's in P365 series slides and 3 G19's direct milled for 509T's. I can't see an instance where I would prefer an MOS, plus plate and a full size EPS over the direct milled 509T. Understanding that those slides are committed to that footprint.

[03RN]

As a red dot shooter, my selection process starts with how red dot friendly is it. If it isn't, that pistol is off the table for me. I used to think I preferred a slide direct milled for the RMR footprint or Acro, but the Holosun EPS educated me as to why a MOS type system helps future proof what you select. Who knows what the next even better EPS optic will be and what footprint it has?

Clusterfrack, the reason you don't have 50 friends is you are such a hard ass moderator -- lighten up and you might get four or five.

Easy button ;)
99561

But this gives me the warm fuzzies
99562

[rob_s]

I fought through Fallujah with an 8round shotgun.

Alone?

[Bucky]

I assume we've got 50 people with different hand sizes, skill levels, grip strengths, etc. That makes the G19 a better choice than a lot of the other options mentioned so far. It fits nearly everyone, and nearly everyone can shoot it decently well.

Prior to Gen 4, I couldn’t stand the G19 grip. It felt bigger / fatter in the hand than a G17. The G19 gen 4 is OK. I personally feel Glock should have continued with the G19 gen 1 design, just shorten a 17 and retain its profile.


How experienced are my 50 friends? I start running out of real gun folk-friends less than halfway in, and that starts changing me up real quick.

Gun friends- G19.5 or Sig Macros with either SCDs(Glocks) or thumb safties(Sigs) wearing EPS w/ TLR8ag.

Non-gun friends - LTT P30s or 92s, EPS, no light/lasers.

Absolute stranger incompetents whom I must lead- S&W Shield EZ9s, no thumb safeties, with TLR8ag.

Interesting the non gun folks get the more complex OS.

[Bergeron]

Bucky, yep, I think about my non-gun friends and now I'm mainly worried about them unintentionally shooting themselves or others, but I still want nice guns that can quickly reward training time.

[GJM]

Even Gunsite has an entrant!

https://gunsmagazine.com/guns/handguns/gunsite-glock-service-pistol/

[Mike C]

I have not read the thread past the first 4 posts but I immediately thought " "Grab a bunch of Glock 19s and be done."

That formula has been working all over the globe. Literally. From various SMUs, to U.S. government agencies, even to the Iraqi police academy, where the average IP could jack up a hockey puck.



Just go to the rack and grab a G19 and call it done. :)

Hahaha, worked for basically everyone except for the IP's, (minus a few real ass kickers) if they'd just had stopped selling them and then buying cheap Tariq's to replace them. But I digress. G19 MOS would be my pick. Holosuns or RMR's to top. I love the P365X and XL series and they run great but I am not so sure they'd handle long term rough handling/field use as others pointed out.

[GJM]

I think the Gunsite offering is solid. My only quibble is the rear Ameriglo sight is needlessly sharp. With a direct milled installation of the 509, they could have gone with a lower height BUIS set, like the CHPWS that has a rounded rear profile.

I had no knowledge of this before today. Since they plan to scale this, it is interesting that their configuration was close.

[rob_s]

Even Gunsite has an entrant!

https://gunsmagazine.com/guns/handguns/gunsite-glock-service-pistol/


I think the Gunsite offering is solid. My only quibble is the rear Ameriglo sight is needlessly sharp. With a direct milled installation of the 509, they could have gone with a lower height BUIS set, like the CHPWS that has a rounded rear profile.

I had no knowledge of this before today. Since they plan to scale this, it is interesting that their configuration was close.

I reallyfuckinghate gunwriters... :eek: ;)

is there a bulleted list of what they offer? I don't want to read through the author's expose on whether Cooper's left nut hung lower than the right. :cool:

ETA:
At least there's this
https://www.gunsitestore.com/product/firearms/gunsite-glock-service-pistol-glock-45-9mm/

A 9mm, Glock 45 Model with these modifications:

Ameriglo Suppressor Sights
FBI Mag Release (A bit larger than the standard release and has rounded edges.)
Lanyard Loop in the tradition of the original Gunsite Service Pistol.
Minus connector for better trigger press.
Glock has milled the slide for Military, LE & Gunsite Academy.
Holosun 509T reflect optical sight directly mounted to the slide.
API (American Pistol Institute) serial number.
Bird & Gunsite logo (“Bird and the Word”) on the slide.



All for $1,275. how do we feel about that price? I do love me some turnkey, but may a $1k+ Glock....

ETA 2:
Glock 45 MOS - $620 (https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/112843/glock+pa455s203mos+g45+gen+5+mos+9mm+4.02+17+1)
Holoson HE509T - $430 (HOLOSUN HE509T)

$1,050 total?

[HCM]

I reallyfuckinghate gunwriters... :eek: ;)

is there a bulleted list of what they offer? I don't want to read through the author's expose on whether Cooper's left nut hung lower than the right. :cool:

ETA:
At least there's this
https://www.gunsitestore.com/product/firearms/gunsite-glock-service-pistol-glock-45-9mm/

A 9mm, Glock 45 Model with these modifications:

Ameriglo Suppressor Sights
FBI Mag Release (A bit larger than the standard release and has rounded edges.)
Lanyard Loop in the tradition of the original Gunsite Service Pistol.
Minus connector for better trigger press.
Glock has milled the slide for Military, LE & Gunsite Academy.
Holosun 509T reflect optical sight directly mounted to the slide.
API (American Pistol Institute) serial number.
Bird & Gunsite logo (“Bird and the Word”) on the slide.



All for $1,275. how do we feel about that price? I do love me some turnkey, but may a $1k+ Glock....

ETA 2:
Glock 45 MOS - $620 (https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/112843/glock+pa455s203mos+g45+gen+5+mos+9mm+4.02+17+1)
Holoson HE509T - $430 (HOLOSUN HE509T)

$1,050 total?

The GSP version is a direct mill so about $150 for mill and refinish though a non MOS gun is slightly cheaper. Plus the cost of the “Bird and the Word” engraving.

Your $1050 MOS requires an aftermarket plate so add $50 to $75 plus $50 for BUIS. So say $1150 plus the Bird and as the Word engraving.

I’d say $1275 is not out of line.

[WDR]

The GSP version is a direct mill so about $150 for mill and refinish though a non MOS gun is slightly cheaper. Plus the cost of the “Bird and the Word” engraving.

Your $1050 MOS requires an aftermarket plate so add $50 to $75 plus $50 for BUIS. So say $1150 plus the Bird and as the Word engraving.

I’d say $1275 is not out of line.

Not out of line, but also nothing exceptional. Other than the engraving. If I was a Gunsite guy... I could see buying one. If I'm reading things right, Glock factory milled these ones? That alone is interesting.

[03RN]

Even Gunsite has an entrant!

https://gunsmagazine.com/guns/handguns/gunsite-glock-service-pistol/

This is one of the reasons I don't read gun magazines anymore. To be fair it's half the writing and half the gun.

Calling the g45 a single stack

"A gun a young cop can afford."......>$1200

No light but a nice Chinese optic

2 lanyard loops. And I fucking love lanyard loops but I don't need 2.

[03RN]

I know I was talking revolvers earlier but really it's just what I like better.

Realistically it would be g19s, RMRs, and either surefire x300 or streamlight TLR 7s.

[Lester Polfus]

I don't want to read through the author's expose on whether Cooper's left nut hung lower than the right. :cool:


If you mention that on The Firing Line somebody who has Cooper's Commentaries memorized can probably tell you which one hung lower, from memory, minutes after you hit the submit button on your post.

[HCM]

Not out of line, but also nothing exceptional. Other than the engraving. If I was a Gunsite guy... I could see buying one. If I'm reading things right, Glock factory milled these ones? That alone is interesting.

If I get a direct mill G 45 I’d want it for the acro footprint not the 509.

Not seeing anything about it being a factory mill. Just milled vs MOS plates.

This is clearly aimed at the “The Bird and the Word” crowd but it’s not any sort of price gouging.

[CSW]

Read thru this, and can't believe that Beretta wasn't mentioned more.... Be it a Px4 or a 92.


I know, no optic.

[G19Fan]

P365XL pr P365XL macro with eps carry

[ST911]

Starts with this.


Gun scribes are frequently accused of exaggerating the unexceptional, overstating the obvious and generally putting lipstick on any pig that comes waddling our way. In fact, we’re often accused of using hyperbole as standard operating procedure rather than an occasional literary device.

But then writes this. Tongue in cheek?


But not today. Call it embellishment if you want, but this month’s cover gun is literally revolutionary — it will tilt the gun world a few degrees off-axis, crush some pre-conceived notions and destroy a few long-cherished certainties, as wrong as they might be.

All based on this.


Ameriglo Suppressor Sights
FBI Mag Release (A bit larger than the standard release and has rounded edges.)
Lanyard Loop in the tradition of the original Gunsite Service Pistol.
Minus connector for better trigger press.
Glock has milled the slide for Military, LE & Gunsite Academy.
Holosun 509T reflect optical sight directly mounted to the slide.
API (American Pistol Institute) serial number.
Bird & Gunsite logo (“Bird and the Word”) on the slide.


Nothing wrong with the gun or specs, and priced okay as an institutional/limited run/commemorative/keepsake, but nothing revolutionary.

Probably a great option for GJM to provide to his growing body of friends.

[Borderland]

Alone?

And without 50 FB friends. ;)

[JonInWA]

Capacity matters more than a reload for private citizens

Why? What are the odds, and statistics for any civilian, let alone LEOs getting into massive, infantry-type firefights? FBI stats certainly don't support it.

My contention is that for most, in most scenarios, a decent semi-auto, with a back-up magazine should be more than sufficient; and the primary purpose of the spare magazine is for having a reserve magazine on tap in the event of a malfunction with the initial magazine, not so much for additional capacity per se.

While I've got several Ruger revolvers on my thread recommend list, my general preference/recommendation for a semi-auto like a Glock G19 is for ease of reloading under stress as opposed to capacity per se. Weather imperviousness would be next.

That said, 50 friends with Ruger Blackhawks could lay down an impressive amount of fire-before they had to reload...

Best, Jon

[JonInWA]

Read thru this, and can't believe that Beretta wasn't mentioned more.... Be it a Px4 or a 92.


I know, no optic.

Bergeron in #8, Noah in # 13, HCM in #32, and JAH 3rd in #95....

However, for me, much as I appreciate my Beretta 92D, and as durable and reliable that they generally are, I think for GJM's scenario a Glock or similar just makes more sense on a number of different levels-but a Beretta 92 certainly wouldn't be a bad choice at all.

Best, Jon

[Utm]

Why? What are the odds, and statistics for any civilian, let alone LEOs getting into massive, infantry-type firefights? FBI stats certainly don't support it.

My contention is that for most, in most scenarios, a decent semi-auto, with a back-up magazine should be more than sufficient; and the primary purpose of the spare magazine is for having a reserve magazine on tap in the event of a malfunction with the initial magazine, not so much for additional capacity per se.

While I've got several Ruger revolvers on my thread recommend list, my general preference/recommendation for a semi-auto like a Glock G19 is for ease of reloading under stress as opposed to capacity per se. Weather imperviousness would be next.

That said, 50 friends with Ruger Blackhawks could lay down an impressive amount of fire-before they had to reload...

Best, Jon
LE reloads are very common. For citizens? They just don't happen. The ammo in the gun is what a citizen uses. There's a ton of video evidence of this, and while I get having an extra mag for malfunctions, I just haven't seen that be a factor. In videos where a malfunction takes place, the good guy is usually getting out of dodge or the bad guy turns into an Olympic sprinter

[coldcase1984]

What about shotguns and carbine for this merry band?

[SCCY Marshal]

What about shotguns and carbine for this merry band?

Fifty people on the same task with H&R single barrels could change a goodly portion of their world.

[ECK]

My submission is probably going to be the 365XL w/ either a 407K/507K or the new EPS. But I kind of like the idea of a 365 FCU and let the user choose which grip frame they want (365, 365X/XL, Macro or one of the after-market ones). Ditto on slide (365, XL, Macro, or one of he after market slides).

I wasn’t very enthusiastic about the regular 365 when they first came how. Probably because of the curved trigger and I thought it was snappier than the G43 (which is the subcompact I was carrying at the time w/ a TTI +2 extension). But that all changed when the 365XL came out and I had a chance to shoot it. It just fit my hand better even with the 12 rnd mag. And it was OR for a red dot without needing a plate. I started out with a R-zero (which we won’t talk about) and quickly switched to the 407K once they became available. And it shot surprisingly good for such a small gun.

Plus if you can’t conceal one under a t-shirt you’re doing something wrong.

ETA: I don’’t have 50 friends either. Several hundred contacts in my phone, but only a handful in my ‘favorites’.

[GJM]

Well, I didn't give away 50, but my wife and I, for Christmas gifted a good friend one of our extra Gen 4 Glock 19 pistols, a 507C, CHPWS BUIS, a Mastermind AIWB and a box of Gold Dot 124+P. He didn't have a Glock, and we didn't think we could consider another shooter a good friend if he didn't have a Glock.

Today was the first time we were all together, and he was able to shoot it after a local USPSA match. I had zeroed it at 25 yards with Gold Dot prior to today. For reference, he is a strong M class CO shooter, shoots a Legion, and has carried a P2000SK .40 or P30L 9mm with a GGI trigger. We started at 20 yards, and I shot the pistol first, putting three rounds in the upper A, in about a two inch group and inch right of center. His shots were all low left on the head. I told him to try more finger and that helped, but his shots were still a few inches left. We asked my wife to shoot it, and her shots were right with mine. We shot some more, but ultimately went one click up and three right. At that point, he was slightly left of center, and the gun shot right of center for my wife and I.

I spent an hour transferring as much Glock info to him as I thought he could absorb (draw, holster, take down, cleaning and lubrication, downloading mags one, don't screw with the OEM parts!) I also let him shoot one G5 19 of mine with a Mayhem and another G5 19 with an EPS. Interestingly, he preferred the G5 trigger with the dot connector. He left carrying the G19 with a spare mag of Gold Dot in his front pocket, so I think we brought him into the fold. My guess is he would have shot a 365 Macro better -- the Glock takes some work, even for a good shooter!

[psalms144.1]

Anyone who knows me knows I have an absolute love/hate relationship with Glocks. IMHO, there's nothing easier to shoot quickly on moderately generous targets. They're generally reliable, Gen5s are very mechanically accurate, and they're dead nuts simple to maintain/repair should such repairs be necessary.

On the other hand, I own no other handgun that's HARDER to run fast on discreet targets, that's more sensitive to grip/trigger finger placement, etc, than the GLOCK. When I did a recent head-to-head with the P07 and P365XL, I shot both of the alternatives measurably more accurately, with similar speed - but I was shooting relatively discreet targets at what most gun owners would consider a middle distance. Shooting full size IPSC steels at 100 yards is an exercise in wasting ammo with the G19, but is do-able with either the XL or P07. Additionally, as others have pointed out, the need to pull the trigger to disassemble is a design flaw that has led to God only knows how many otherwise avoidable negligent discharges since GLOCK hit the market.

Having said all that, if I needed to train and equip a cadre of hand gunners in today's environment, I'd opt for the Gen5 G19, even with all of its warts. Direct milled with 509Ts and irons forward of the optic would be a plus, but not a necessity. TLR7s and JMCK holsters, and a crap ton of ammo for training.

You can always what if this into the realm of the absurd - what if some of those 50 folks are 70+ one-handed hobbits? What if this group had to operate on the surface of the sun?

Simple is nearly always better. I love me some round guns, but I've seen WAY more "non-shooters" struggle with revolver DA triggers than I have had to deal with low-left shooting Glock folks. And let's not get started on having to train folks to reload a revolver versus any semi...

[GJM]

I learned a decade or more ago, a Glock is easy to shoot OK with, and extremely hard to shoot great with. Interestingly, there are a number of very strong CO shooters in AZ, that started with a Glock, developed great fundamentals, and then transitioned to other platforms while applying Glock honed fundamentals and really moved up.

[TGS]

Anyone who knows me knows I have an absolute love/hate relationship with Glocks. IMHO, there's nothing easier to shoot quickly on moderately generous targets. They're generally reliable, Gen5s are very mechanically accurate, and they're dead nuts simple to maintain/repair should such repairs be necessary.

On the other hand, I own no other handgun that's HARDER to run fast on discreet targets, that's more sensitive to grip/trigger finger placement, etc, than the GLOCK. When I did a recent head-to-head with the P07 and P365XL, I shot both of the alternatives measurably more accurately, with similar speed - but I was shooting relatively discreet targets at what most gun owners would consider a middle distance. Shooting full size IPSC steels at 100 yards is an exercise in wasting ammo with the G19, but is do-able with either the XL or P07. Additionally, as others have pointed out, the need to pull the trigger to disassemble is a design flaw that has led to God only knows how many otherwise avoidable negligent discharges since GLOCK hit the market.


Exact opposite experience, on my end. Some of the highest 200-Drill scores I've had are with my Glock 19M. It dings steel at 100 yards pretty effortlessly.

The only other Glock 19 I have any significant time on is the Gen 3, but I never took that past 50. Results at 50 weren't great, but it was also about 115* Fahrenheit, with a minor case of diarrhea and healthy bit of sleep deprivation.

[Borderland]

Exact opposite experience, on my end. Some of the highest 200-Drill scores I've had are with my Glock 19M. It dings steel at 100 yards pretty effortlessly.

Crap. I could never shoot that well. But then I couldn't see a 100 yd target, or even a 50 for that matter, to shoot that well. That doesn't bother me because I know age catches up with everyone. If I can see it with a 4x scope I can hit it, even at 300. Sad but that is what's in store for almost everyone, sooner or later. With a pistol, 25 is all I'm interested in at my age. That I can still see.

I saw an old timer bullseye shooter punching a 50 yd target with a Gold Cup the other day. There's hope. ;)

[psalms144.1]

Exact opposite experience, on my end. Some of the highest 200-Drill scores I've had are with my Glock 19M. It dings steel at 100 yards pretty effortlessly.

The only other Glock 19 I have any significant time on is the Gen 3, but I never took that past 50. Results at 50 weren't great, but it was also about 115* Fahrenheit, with a minor case of diarrhea and healthy bit of sleep deprivation.I agree. 15 years ago, I was hitting a pepper popper at 100 12+ out of 15 with an issued G19. Those days are gone now, just don't have the grip strength anymore.

I'd still take 50 G19s as an arsenal for a small unit over 50 of anything else I can think of, because I don't think ringing those IPSC steels at 100 is as important as being able to put 3-4 fast hits into the A Zone out to 15 yards, for the average shooter. And I'd rather instruct folks through the GLOCK's nuances and shortfalls than deal with the issues of more "shootable" pistols, and sure as shooting would rather be the on-site armorer for 50 Glocks than pretty much anything else.