Rogers-Surefire Technique

[NH Shooter]

With a light properly configured, I'm a fan of the Rogers-Surefire technique (https://surefire.news/surefire-combatlight-the-solution-to-a-handheld-with-a-handgun/). I find it provides a far more steady hold and control of the pistol vs. one hand only, and noticeably more steady than the Harries.

Configuring a light to work well with this technique requires a grip ring that is secure when squeezed (doesn't slide rearward) and a switch that operates reliably. Some recent experimentation has yielded excellent results, which I thought I'd share here along with a slight tweak to the technique.

Photo 1

An old Surefire Z2 Combat Light and an EDCLB 18350 Fat Boy set up with the optional E2T Tailcap with Lanyard & Grip ring Kit. The grip ring kit is comprised of a Lumens Factory silicone grip ring and four tight-fitting O-rings to anchor the grip ring from sliding rearward;

https://i.ibb.co/whdKXgN/fatboy-z2.jpg


Photo 2

The wrist lanyard provides full retention of the light while freeing the hand for other tasks, such as magazine changes or stoppage clearing;

https://i.ibb.co/x66rz7m/cgrk-1.jpg


Photo 3

Getting the grip ring spacing right on such a short light took a little experimentation, but this works really well for me even without a pistol. Notice the position of the middle, ring and pinky fingers;

https://i.ibb.co/GW9WVPb/cgrk-2.jpg


Photo 4

My PPS and E2XTD 18350 Fat Boy in the (slightly tweaked) Rogers-Surefire grip;

https://i.ibb.co/s3WWXLL/cgrk-3.jpg


I have found that the key to success with this specific light and technique is to grip the light for easy and consistent operation of the switch, then "marry" the support hand to the firing hand without altering the grip of the light. Essentially the middle, ring and little fingers are extended as shown in Photo 3 with the finger tips engaging the MCP joints of the firing hand in a push-pull fashion as shown in Photo 4. I find it's important to not change the weak hand grip in order to maintain good control of the light.

For those of you who have purchased an 18350 light with lanyard from me and would like a grip ring kit, PM me for info. Be advised the grip ring kit will NOT work with the pocket clip. For reference, here is the kit installed on the BGV2 18350 Bodyguard;

https://i.ibb.co/0ZyQsmR/cgrk-bgv2.jpg

[HCM]

With a light properly configured, I'm a fan of the Rogers-Surefire technique (https://surefire.news/surefire-combatlight-the-solution-to-a-handheld-with-a-handgun/). I find it provides a far more steady hold and control of the pistol vs. one hand only, and noticeably more steady than the Harries.

Configuring a light to work well with this technique requires a grip ring that is secure when squeezed (doesn't slide rearward) and a switch that operates reliably. Some recent experimentation has yielded excellent results, which I thought I'd share here along with a slight tweak to the technique.

Photo 1

An old Surefire Z2 Combat Light and an EDCLB 18350 Fat Boy set up with the optional E2T Tailcap with Lanyard & Grip ring Kit. The grip ring kit is comprised of a Lumens Factory silicone grip ring and four tight-fitting O-rings to anchor the grip ring from sliding rearward;

https://i.ibb.co/whdKXgN/fatboy-z2.jpg


Photo 2

The wrist lanyard provides full retention of the light while freeing the hand for other tasks, such as magazine changes or stoppage clearing;

https://i.ibb.co/x66rz7m/cgrk-1.jpg


Photo 3

Getting the grip ring spacing right on such a short light took a little experimentation, but this works really well for me even without a pistol. Notice the position of the middle, ring and pinky fingers;

https://i.ibb.co/GW9WVPb/cgrk-2.jpg


Photo 4

My PPS and E2XTD 18350 Fat Boy in the (slightly tweaked) Rogers-Surefire grip;

https://i.ibb.co/s3WWXLL/cgrk-3.jpg


I have found that the key to success with this specific light and technique is to grip the light for easy and consistent operation of the switch, then "marry" the support hand to the firing hand without altering the grip of the light. Essentially the middle, ring and little fingers are extended as shown in Photo 3 with the finger tips engaging the MCP joints of the firing hand in a push-pull fashion as shown in Photo 4. I find it's important to not change the weak hand grip in order to maintain good control of the light.

For those of you who have purchased an 18350 light with lanyard from me and would like a grip ring kit, PM me for info. Be advised the grip ring kit will NOT work with the pocket clip. For reference, here is the kit installed on the BGV2 18350 Bodyguard;

https://i.ibb.co/0ZyQsmR/cgrk-bgv2.jpg

If one has the properly configured flashlight and they practice regularly this works great.

The latter tends to be the biggest obstacle.

[Shawn Dodson]

Even with long fingers, the Rogers techique with a Surefire 6Z-type flashlight has never worked well for me.

If I need to go two-handed with a handheld, then I use the Harries technique.

[NH Shooter]

Even with long fingers, the Rogers techique with a Surefire 6Z-type flashlight has never worked well for me.

If I need to go two-handed with a handheld, then I use the Harries technique.

Likewise;

https://i.ibb.co/whdKXgN/fatboy-z2.jpg


I find the distance between the grip ring and tailcap on the Z2 too long for me. I can make it work, but taking a spacer out of the standard configuration works better for me. The E2XTD light has shorter spacing, which I find much easier to control the light.

Harries is my go-to if a light is not configured for the Rogers-Surefire.

[1Rangemaster]

HCM, is correct-and in the end, whatever skill is about practice. We have a low light session at our place yearly, and it is “interesting” to see how some personnel struggle even with weapon lights. I tend to revert to Harries as it got imprinted long ago.
NH Shooter : respectful suggestion I think I got from Bill Murphy at the old Surefire Institute years ago. Consider cinching the lanyard around the palm of your hand, rather than wrist. That way, if the light gets caught on something or grabbed, you can “detach” from it.
Just a suggestion-ymmv, etc.

[NH Shooter]

NH Shooter : respectful suggestion I think I got from Bill Murphy at the old Surefire Institute years ago. Consider cinching the lanyard around the palm of your hand, rather than wrist. That way, if the light gets caught on something or grabbed, you can “detach” from it.
Just a suggestion-ymmv, etc.

Thanks, much appreciated!

On the EDCLB lights, the lanyard connects to the lanyard ring on the tailcap with the small split-ring connector seen in the photo above. With a forceful tug the ring unwinds and serves as a break-away between light and lanyard, so if an assailant gains control of the light, they don't gain control of the person using it.

I test this function by installing the lanyard on the ring, then hooking the ring on a screw that is secured to my work bench. With a good tug, the split ring needs to fail for that batch of rings to be used.

[HCM]

Likewise;

https://i.ibb.co/whdKXgN/fatboy-z2.jpg


I find the distance between the grip ring and tailcap on the Z2 too long for me. I can make it work, but taking a spacer out of the standard configuration works better for me. The E2XTD light has shorter spacing, which I find much easier to control the light.

Harries is my go-to if a light is not configured for the Rogers-Surefire.


HCM, is correct-and in the end, whatever skill is about practice. We have a low light session at our place yearly, and it is “interesting” to see how some personnel struggle even with weapon lights. I tend to revert to Harries as it got imprinted long ago.
NH Shooter : respectful suggestion I think I got from Bill Murphy at the old Surefire Institute years ago. Consider cinching the lanyard around the palm of your hand, rather than wrist. That way, if the light gets caught on something or grabbed, you can “detach” from it.
Just a suggestion-ymmv, etc.

Harries is a valid technique but two issues:

First, there is no one “go to” technique for handheld flashlights. What I mean is none of them work 100% in all situations.. just doing Harries works great on an open square range. However, when you start dealing with barricades, vehicles, or moving through a structure etc it’s at best a 50% solution. Harries works great for a right handed shooter working around a right side cover, or corner When a right handed shooter tries to apply Harries to a left side cover position it is or requires over, exposing oneself or more commonly results in backsplash in oneself with white and not illuminating the target or area to be searched. A left-handed shooter using Harries has the same issues on the opposite sides.

The second issue with the Harries is if you’ve ever tried to search in the Harries position for any length of time it is fatiguing. It’s a good shooting position, but not necessarily a good position for searching with a gun.

[MVS]

https://youtu.be/-Jetdqew6uM?t=1817

A lot of info I just marked where he mentions what we are talking about briefly. I no longer really practice any two handed low light shooting techniques.

[Erick Gelhaus]

I remember when the Surefire/Rodgers technique came in after my first Gunsite trip. It is a viable way of getting both hands on the pistol (or shotgun even) while working a narrower light. I've got one of the 6Z's in my bin o' lights for reference and teaching. I think there are two reasons it isn't more commonly used/taught or has fallen out of favor.

The first is that some need a light modification to use the technique. While I can do it with an unmodified light, it isn't always doable. Once you cut rings off the 6Z, I don't recall there being a way to add them back.

The other is that the user now has to manipulate and switch how they hold the light. An ice pick grip works for the FBI, jaw/temple, Harries, and reverse Harries, but everything gets changed to use the SF/Rodgers/Syringe/Caracci/Etc method. Even with us teaching it at work and school, I rarely saw it used in either simulators (without prompting) or in the real world. If it isn't being used without prompting in training, why spend time on it in training? I'll demo and discuss it in low-light courses, but I don't spend much time on it.

As for the lanyard, for quite a while now (like since '96) I've avoided using a full lanyard behind the thumb. For the handful of lights with a lanyard it's made of shock cord and a cord lock. It only goes as far back as the web of my hand. I had a full-length SF lanyard made of paracord, on the wrist, get stuck in the pistol during a reload. Embarrassing in class, don't want to consider its implication elsewhere.

99449
An old 6Z light, the lanyard is gone and now it has an LED bulb in it. Notice how it is held;
99450
Sure Fire / Laser Products
99451
An ice pick grip on a 6Z. How different is that from the SF/Rodgers hold? How much manipulation does changing between the two require? How doable is it during an event?
99452
Shock cord lanyard, on a 6P, in front of the thumb
99453
Another view of the shockcord lanyard, IFO the thumb, with an old, short, smooth button on the Laser Products/SF tail cap.

BL: While it does work better for pure shooting, the Pros of an Ice Pick grip and the other methods for everything else I do in low light outweigh it for me.

[HCM]

I remember when the Surefire/Rodgers technique came in after my first Gunsite trip. It is a viable way of getting both hands on the pistol (or shotgun even) while working a narrower light. I've got one of the 6Z's in my bin o' lights for reference and teaching. I think there are two reasons it isn't more commonly used/taught or has fallen out of favor.

The first is that some need a light modification to use the technique. While I can do it with an unmodified light, it isn't always doable. Once you cut rings off the 6Z, I don't recall there being a way to add them back.

The other is that the user now has to manipulate and switch how they hold the light. An ice pick grip works for the FBI, jaw/temple, Harries, and reverse Harries, but everything gets changed to use the SF/Rodgers/Syringe/Caracci/Etc method. Even with us teaching it at work and school, I rarely saw it used in either simulators (without prompting) or in the real world. If it isn't being used without prompting in training, why spend time on it in training? I'll demo and discuss it in low-light courses, but I don't spend much time on it.

As for the lanyard, for quite a while now (like since '96) I've avoided using a full lanyard behind the thumb. For the handful of lights with a lanyard it's made of shock cord and a cord lock. It only goes as far back as the web of my hand. I had a full-length SF lanyard made of paracord, on the wrist, get stuck in the pistol during a reload. Embarrassing in class, don't want to consider its implication elsewhere.

99449
An old 6Z light, the lanyard is gone and now it has an LED bulb in it. Notice how it is held;
99450
Sure Fire / Laser Products
99451
An ice pick grip on a 6Z. How different is that from the SF/Rodgers hold? How much manipulation does changing between the two require? How doable is it during an event?
99452
Shock cord lanyard, on a 6P, in front of the thumb
99453
Another view of the shockcord lanyard, IFO the thumb, with an old, short, smooth button on the Laser Products/SF tail cap.

BL: While it does work better for pure shooting, the Pros of an Ice Pick grip and the other methods for everything else I do in low light outweigh it for me.

Agree on the Rodgers technique. We discuss it and demo it every year during low light training and I’ve never seen anyone use it outside of being prompted to do so on the range.

I like the shock cord for the lanyard vs regular 550 type cord.

[NH Shooter]

First, there is no one “go to” technique for handheld flashlights.

Agreed! The Low Light Pistol Operator course I took at the Sig Academy covered the most common techniques, including the advantages and disadvantages of each. For me the Harries provides only a minor benefit for increased stability, but still better than a true one hand hold. The Rogers-Surefire provides for a much more stable hold for when maximum precision is needed.

Even for one-hand shooting, I find a grip ring useful - it keeps the light from sliding forward in the hand;

https://i.ibb.co/YhXzSH0/lanyard-23.jpg


The larger grip ring set up for use with the Rogers-Surefire works just as well for me for single hand use. Having a light so configured IMO provides greater flexibility, and being able to smoothly transition from one technique to another depending on the circumstances is a valuable skill set. That said, keeping the light and pistol independent of each other provides some major benefits at short engagement distances.

I appreciate everyone's engagement in this discussion!

[1Rangemaster]

HCM - certainly agree there is no one way/technique. I have found myself on a couple of occasions drawing sidearm and light to a Harries. It's what I learned first years ago, so it was interesting to me I went to it under a little stress.
As Erick Gelhaus pointed out, and I’ve seen and practiced, there are a lot of holds one can flow into and out with the “ice pick”. I could see-no pun intended-though if one had the foresight in a sense to set up in a Rogers it would useful moving down a hallway or aisle for example.
Thanks for the discussion, all; reminds me I need to put a session or few into some light handling practice-thanks!

[NH Shooter]

https://youtu.be/-Jetdqew6uM?t=1817

A lot of info I just marked where he mentions what we are talking about briefly. I no longer really practice any two handed low light shooting techniques.

MVS, thanks for the link! I think MS makes some great points in this video, especially in regards to the one-hand hold and being able to use the arm to block blows to the head. Shooting from retention in an arm's length entanglement is also something I have embraced and "wired-in." In fact, one of the reasons the PPS remains my preferred EDC is due to the fact there's not much for an assailant to grab hold of forward of the trigger guard. This article (https://www.artofmanliness.com/skills/manly-know-how/how-to-use-a-tactical-flashlight/) written 10 years ago by MS remains relevant to this day.

As a civilian, my use of light (with or without a firearm) is going to differ compared to a LEO. Where a LEO would go on "offense" in search and apprehension of a suspect, my goal is quite the opposite: to detect, evade and escape. While constant-on light operation is beneficial for a PO, it's more likely to be a detriment for the civilian who is looking to avoid encounters with criminals rather than tracking them down to make an arrest. I very much consider the use of light for a civilian to enhance their situational awareness in the typical low-light setting as my primary mission.


I remember when the Surefire/Rodgers technique came in after my first Gunsite trip. It is a viable way of getting both hands on the pistol (or shotgun even) while working a narrower light. I've got one of the 6Z's in my bin o' lights for reference and teaching. I think there are two reasons it isn't more commonly used/taught or has fallen out of favor.

The first is that some need a light modification to use the technique. While I can do it with an unmodified light, it isn't always doable. Once you cut rings off the 6Z, I don't recall there being a way to add them back.

The other is that the user now has to manipulate and switch how they hold the light. An ice pick grip works for the FBI, jaw/temple, Harries, and reverse Harries, but everything gets changed to use the SF/Rodgers/Syringe/Caracci/Etc method. Even with us teaching it at work and school, I rarely saw it used in either simulators (without prompting) or in the real world. If it isn't being used without prompting in training, why spend time on it in training? I'll demo and discuss it in low-light courses, but I don't spend much time on it.



Erick, thanks for your insight!

If I may add some flashlight nerd points to the above, in my view the Rogers technique does indeed require a flashlight specifically configured for the technique to be effective. Along with the grip ring, the other key feature is the tailcap and switch.

The original SF Combat Lights used the "twisty" tailcap, which mechanically is a very simple design consisting of an aluminum plunger that is under tension from the battery contact spring. Pushing the switch presses the plunger against the spring to the rear edge of the body to make electrical contact. There are two issues with this design;


How far the tailcap is twisted down impacts the spring tension, which changes the amount of force required to make a good electrical contact
More importantly, the aluminum plunger and the rear of the body where it makes contact oxidizes over time, increasing electrical resistance and the amount of force required for good contact

The net result is that light actuation can be inconsistent, and it only gets worse over time. I have a collection of old "twisties" and they all cause light flicker if I don't really press down hard on the switch. This is IMO the Achilles heel of the technique - establishing and maintaining consistent actuation of the switch with a part of the hand that does not have much dexterity.

SF has moved to a "clicky" style switch on their new Combat Lights (https://www.surefire.com/products/illumination/flashlights/g2z-maxvision-combat-light/). The electrical contacts are plated for corrosion resistance and the amount of pressure required on the switch remains constant, so this is a big improvement. The downside is the liability of inadvertent latching to constant-on if the switch is pressed a little too aggressively. While some may not consider this a big deal, others (including myself) see it as an impediment to precise control of momentary-only operation.

This has been a focus of my efforts for quite some time - finding the ideal tailcap and switch for this technique. My goal is to provide easy and consistent momentary operation while minimizing inadvertent latching of the switch. The "Tactician style" tailcap I use, along with the industry-standard McClicky switch and a low-profile medium press boot does this extremely well. I can squeeze as hard as I can in a Rogers-Surefire hold without the switch latching, yet the switch easily actuates for momentary operation. I guess only a nerd like me would have expended all the bandwidth to figure out how to do this. :-)

Due to this, I can easily see why most would abandon the technique for something that is easier to use. That said, I'm glad I finally came up with a combination of parts that addresses the hardware challenges.

Thanks again for sharing your experience, it's very much appreciated!

[CraigS]

A fellow I shoot idpa with showed me that technique at our last night match. One thing he added was that he uses the shortest flashlight he can find. He says that really helps reduce the tendency of the light to sag downward.

[nalesq]

A fellow I shoot idpa with showed me that technique at our last night match. One thing he added was that he uses the shortest flashlight he can find. He says that really helps reduce the tendency of the light to sag downward.

It also helps for the light to be lightweight and for the portion between the fingers to be as thin as possible. I personally found the little old and sadly long discontinued Quark QTLC to be ideal in this regard.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[NH Shooter]

It also helps for the light to be lightweight and for the portion between the fingers to be as thin as possible. I personally found the little old and sadly long discontinued Quark QTLC to be ideal in this regard.



https://i.ibb.co/0FSYYng/edc-2023-2.jpg


My Quark QT2L-X head on a Quark AA body, using a 14500 Li-ion cell for power. I find the AA length perfect, but the 1-CR123 body too short. The Quark would benefit from a true grip ring instead of just an O-ring, but it is certainly very usable for the Rogers-Surefire configured like this.

IMO, the best feature of the Quarks was using the head to select one of two outputs, but this was something the Surefire lawsuit brought to an end.

As much as I like the Quark, the E2HT 18350 Dagger (or BGV2 18350 Bodyguard) is far superior for this use.

[ViniVidivici]

Good to see this discussed.

I've always used 3 techniques: FBI, Harries, and Rogers/Surefire.

My FBI is not held up at full extension, but sort of hybridized with neck index. Used for situations when I'm already searching or illuminating, THEN a potential threat emerges.

Also useful for searching in very close quarters, light up at shoulder height (where arm can be used for blocking/pushing if need be), and pistol held back in retention position, ready to shoot.

Harries for when I want to draw the pistol and light simultaneously.

Rogers/Surefire is great for increased accuracy and stability, bit I feel it's too cumbersome to get into quickly, from the holster. I almost always use it for extended searching or shooting, migrating from Harries if/when there's time. It's just not fast enough to get into, from the holster.