TAURUS 856 TORO- Red dot optic equipped revolver.

[Lester Polfus]

Here's a link to a Firearms Blog story about the the new Taurus 856 Toro. (https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2022/12/28/6-new-taurus-rossi-revolvers-2023/)

It's almost like they have a dialed in revolver shooter working for them or something?

It will be interesting if Ruger and Smith follow along.

ETA: I've been holding off on buying an 856 to see if they would release a model with a rear sight similar to the Ruger Wiley Clapp or Smith 640 Pro. They have apparently decided to say "fuck all that" and jumped to the head of the line.

Once a holster becomes available, this almost is a no-brainer. Even if I don't carry it on the street, I can use it as a practice mule and red-dot transition gun.

What I've been speccing out in my head is a Smith Model 19 Carry Comp with an Allchin mount and an optic. I probably will be able to buy three of these Tauri for what one of those costs.

[Totem Polar]

Once a holster becomes available, this almost is a no-brainer. Even if I don't carry it on the street, I can use it as a practice mule and red-dot transition gun.


^^^This. I had no idea there was a Taurus that I needed so much. Didn’t see that one coming.

But “Taurus Judge Executive Grade?” Of all the line extensions to offer…

And that 10.5 raging hunter leapfrogs all competition for worst looking revolver.

Yeah, that little 3” red dot revolver though. I’m pretty sure I have to buy one.

:D

[Lester Polfus]

^^^This. I had no idea there was a Taurus that I needed so much. Didn’t see that one coming.

But “Taurus Judge Executive Grade?” Of all the line extensions to offer…

And that 10.5 raging hunter leapfrogs all competition for worst looking revolver.

Yeah, that little 3” red dot revolver though. I’m pretty sure I have to buy one.

:D

Right? The .500 revolver right above it has a kind of cool, Junkyard dog aesthetic about it that I like, but the 10.5" Raging Hunter made me throw up in my mouth a little.

If somebody tells you "I bought a Taurus Judge Executive Grade" that will tell you everything you need to know about them.

[PNWTO]

I’m just going to tag jetfire so he can get to ‘splaining when he’s professionally allowed to ‘splain.

Guess I know what I’m spending money on.

[Lester Polfus]

Guess I know what I’m spending money on.

Me too. And it shouldn't be very much. All of the 856 models are under $450 on GrabAGun, except the Executive Grade, which comes with that dumb Pelican case.

I can pop a Holosun on there and have a red dot revolver training mule for less than $1k. I just need somebody to make a holster.

[newyork]

Are Taurus good now??

[Lester Polfus]

Are Taurus good now??

We've had some discussion about that. It sounds like they are really trying to up their game. With some of the issues Smith is having, there is definitely blood in the water and if Taurus can level up in quality, and compete on price, they can eat Smith's lunch.

[wmu12071]

Damn it. 2023 may be an expense year. I am liking 1911s again and now a RDS revolver.

[Jim Watson]

Is there a reputable gunsmith working to improve Taurus revolvers?
There are Smith shops, Ruger shops, even Colt shops, but I have not heard of anybody debugging and tuning up a Taurus.

[DanTheWolfman]

3"6-shot Rossi .357 Magnum RP63 ie basically a 462 w/ 3" like one distributer got....except...all now not just very few...being drop safe IS SOMETHING I HAVE DEFINITELY BEEN WANTING. Hopefully only 27.5-28 ounces.

I'd really like to get a early one do we know eta on this model jetfire getting out there???

Can the defender night sight fit in it need to check pic see if pinned through side

Only no grip options kinda stinks but this is like the carry specs I've been wanting

[lee n. field]

Here's a link to a Firearms Blog story about the the new Taurus 856 Toro. (https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2022/12/28/6-new-taurus-rossi-revolvers-2023/)

It's almost like they have a dialed in revolver shooter working for them or something?


"That Caleb guy" was hinting that there was some interesting stuff coming for SHOT.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Very cool. Pretty sure this tips the scales in my decision of which 3" revolver to buy. Just the fact that they are willing to make products that match what shooters actually want is a good omen.

I hope they offer a taller front sight to cowitness the 507k rear notch.

[awp_101]

And that 10.5 raging hunter leapfrogs all competition for worst looking revolver.
Maybe, but I’ve been intrigued with FrankenRugers (https://baysidecustomgunworks.com/franken-ruger) for a while and that looks like a nice way to jump into the pool. Being a .460 means I can run .45 Colt (because .460 and .454 are non-starters for me) and I’m always looking for a reason to bring a .45 Colt into the safe.

And because I’m a fricken gun N-E-R-D.

[PNWTO]

If somebody tells you "I bought a Taurus Judge Executive Grade" that will tell you everything you need to know about them.

True fact; I want to find a redeeming aspect of the Judge but I’m not sure it’s possible.

But I do understand the new “Executive Grade”, lots of people don’t know what they don’t know and buy a Judge. Now they’ll be drooling for second one and making haste to make sure the O2 tank is on the power scooter so they can mosey immediately to the LGS.

[Totem Polar]

Maybe, but I’ve been intrigued with FrankenRugers (https://baysidecustomgunworks.com/franken-ruger) for a while and that looks like a nice way to jump into the pool. Being a .460 means I can run .45 Colt (because .460 and .454 are non-starters for me) and I’m always looking for a reason to bring a .45 Colt into the safe.

And because I’m a fricken gun N-E-R-D.

;)

(Referring to the gun, not any person in this thread)

[AdioSS]

3"6-shot Rossi .357 Magnum RP63 ie basically a 462 w/ 3" like one distributer got....except...all now not just very few...being drop safe IS SOMETHING I HAVE DEFINITELY BEEN WANTING. Hopefully only 27.5-28 ounces.

I'd really like to get a early one do we know eta on this model jetfire getting out there???

Can the defender night sight fit in it need to check pic see if pinned through side

Only no grip options kinda stinks but this is like the carry specs I've been wanting

https://www.taurususa.com/revolvers/small-frame-revolvers/taurus-856

The image shown on TFB has a pinned on front sight, & there are 5 different grip options shown in the current production 856 page including VZ G10, Viridian laser, Altamont wood, Hogue rubber, & a Taurus rubber. I actually recently installed a set of those newer factory Taurus rubber grips on my old 605. They have a very good feel to them to me. I also put older 605 grips on my 642 & really like them, too. I wouldn’t be surprised if the 856 grip is the same as one of the S&W grips, so there should be some kind of grips available that fit you.

[DanTheWolfman]

https://www.taurususa.com/revolvers/small-frame-revolvers/taurus-856

The image shown on TFB has a pinned on front sight, & there are 5 different grip options shown in the current production 856 page including VZ G10, Viridian laser, Altamont wood, Hogue rubber, & a Taurus rubber. I actually recently installed a set of those newer factory Taurus rubber grips on my old 605. They have a very good feel to them to me. I also put older 605 grips on my 642 & really like them, too. I wouldn’t be surprised if the 856 grip is the same as one of the S&W grips, so there should be some kind of grips available that fit you.

It's the Rossi I'm very interested in and different frame. Found Thai guy makes one pair I like. For 856 there is the really nice rosewood for $44 on taurus website or Amazon, there is a particular g10 not the common one I think I would like as well, and Altamonte has one color in stock too.

But 6 shot .357 option now I would like to know when will happen as that will itch my particular scratch best actually

The ramp of the rossi looks longer but looks like same location for roll pin best I can tell so hoping could put that Amariglo night sight on

[jetfire]

I’m just going to tag jetfire so he can get to ‘splaining when he’s professionally allowed to ‘splain.

Guess I know what I’m spending money on.

I think that if I were a member of the credentialed outdoors media that I wouldn't log in to the SHOT Show new products section and leak embargoed information in a blog post.

That would be what I would do in this situation ;-)

[Lester Polfus]

I think that if I were a member of the credentialed outdoors media that I wouldn't log in to the SHOT Show new products section and leak embargoed information in a blog post.

That would be what I would do in this situation ;-)

whoops...

[jetfire]

whoops...

You didn't do anything wrong, you found a blog post and shared information that's relevant to the public. I appreciate that!

[HCM]

I think that if I were a member of the credentialed outdoors media that I wouldn't log in to the SHOT Show new products section and leak embargoed information in a blog post.

That would be what I would do in this situation ;-)

Assuming why said blog post was taken down.

[jetfire]

Assuming why said blog post was taken down.

I wouldn’t know anything about that 😉

[WobblyPossum]

I think it’s a cool idea. The Shield RMSc/Holosun K footprint really seems to be getting popular too.

[jetfire]

Right? The .500 revolver right above it has a kind of cool, Junkyard dog aesthetic about it that I like, but the 10.5" Raging Hunter made me throw up in my mouth a little.

If somebody tells you "I bought a Taurus Judge Executive Grade" that will tell you everything you need to know about them.

If I knew anything about these products, which obviously I don’t because they don’t exist (yet), but if I did I would say that as someone who has written columns about how much the Judge sucks, I find it hard to hate the hypothetical Executive Grade Judge that definitely doesn’t exist and I don’t have one

[Lester Polfus]

If I knew anything about these products, which obviously I don’t because they don’t exist (yet), but if I did I would say that as someone who has written columns about how much the Judge sucks, I find it hard to hate the hypothetical Executive Grade Judge that definitely doesn’t exist and I don’t have one

I'm willing to be persuaded, because I'm one of those people who can actually for reals use a "foraging gun," which I define as someone who can actually use a single, lightweight firearm that is easily packed around all day and can kill everything from grouse to blacktail deer, depending on what happens along.

[awp_101]

;)

If that's the worst thing I get called today (and at this point it is the leader in the clubhouse) then it's been a damn good day.:cool:

[jetfire]

Maybe, but I’ve been intrigued with FrankenRugers (https://baysidecustomgunworks.com/franken-ruger) for a while and that looks like a nice way to jump into the pool. Being a .460 means I can run .45 Colt (because .460 and .454 are non-starters for me) and I’m always looking for a reason to bring a .45 Colt into the safe.

And because I’m a fricken gun N-E-R-D.

Again, if I knew anything about these guns that definitely don't exist yet, I'd say that the 10.5 RH is a really cool looking space gun and that the compensator is absolutely wonderful and insanely effective at reducing recoil on 460 rounds, and it makes shooting spicy 45 Colt like shooting a 22.

Hypothetically, of course because I don't know anything about these guns that don't exist

[DanTheWolfman]

If that long thing that doesn't exist but was envisioned were made, with a can or flash suppressor isn't that in a cartridge w a lot of punch and a platform that could actually do a lot of things at realistic special teams distances in confined space setups ala GIGN?

Are cats out of the bag fair game re details and screen shots or is it requested they are put back in the bag?

I read those old small frame Rossi Revolvers had heavy DA's and I don't know the internals...would spring kits for 856's work? or I read some used 9lb J-frame hammer springs on them back in the day? Anyone have those older smaller frame ones? Or theoretically speaking of course, would they have lighter hammer springs than yore?

Also, speaking of springs....is there a trigger kit liked for lighter but reliable on GX4XL? I do dig the way they look and feel.

[Moped]

Sorry, but I'm a bit behind. Might this be the Taurus 856 in question?

https://jdmtactical.com/product/taurus-856-toro-revolver-black--38-spl-p--3-barrel--6rd--rubber-grip--includes-optic-mount99193

[Jamie]

Well, I'm glad I read the hypothetical article about the hypothetical revolver that may or may not quite yet exist. Because it feels a hypothetical need (want) I wasn't even aware of surly exists.
If, and when, these come to fruition it will surely be a case of "Take my money" please.

I spent the past 2 days watching Christmas movies ("Lethal Weapon" and "Die hard" and listening to Lee Weens podcasts): priming .38 spl brass, 1200 pieces of .38 brass brass. I love my LCR... but I think I need one of these hypothetical revolvers...for I love my RDS's as well.

I blame this on the enabling capabilities of the respected members here. I applaud you. Your powers are strong.

[MountainRaven]

It's kind of a pity, in my opinion, that this 856 TORO that's not happening isn't an Executive Grade.

[HCM]

Sorry, but I'm a bit behind. Might this be the Taurus 856 in question?

https://jdmtactical.com/product/taurus-856-toro-revolver-black--38-spl-p--3-barrel--6rd--rubber-grip--includes-optic-mount99193


https://youtu.be/THZV5g1CNZM

[Lester Polfus]

Sorry, but I'm a bit behind. Might this be the Taurus 856 in question?

https://jdmtactical.com/product/taurus-856-toro-revolver-black--38-spl-p--3-barrel--6rd--rubber-grip--includes-optic-mount99193

That price...

For almost a year I’ve been considering running a RDS revolver experiment with either a Smith 2.75” Model 66 or 3” Model 19 Carry Comp. That was going to be a $1400 to $1800 experiment before I bought a holster.


I can put this together for maybe less than $850 all in with tax, shipping, etc

[wmu12071]

It's kind of a pity, in my opinion, that this 856 TORO that's not happening isn't an Executive Grade.

If they are smart and following the model everyone else seems to lately that is about a year after this one and everyone that want the executive has the standard so they can double sell.

[paherne]

I've got to say, I've never even considered buying a Taurus. But, looking at the options in grips and figuring out how to put a removable front sight blade on a revolver that doesn't cost $1k, I'm impressed. I won't be able to purchase the RDS model in CA until our tyrannical LIST is struck down. For a non-dedicated person and home defense, this might be the best option out there. One of the real benefits of RDS is that dry fire gives the shooter so much more feedback with less training and repetitions. Also, anyone under about 35 who has played FPS games understands the dot without explanation or training. This will be a winner. It will also be fun with a 3" barrel and light loads. I predict any dude who purchases one for himself will have it bogarted by wife/kids. Should probably come out with a 4" .22 version as a follow up.

[willie]

Is there a reputable gunsmith working to improve Taurus revolvers?
There are Smith shops, Ruger shops, even Colt shops, but I have not heard of anybody debugging and tuning up a Taurus.

Removing side plate voids warranty. I never heard of a custom Taurus shop either.

[Jim Watson]

Well, boo hoo.

If I have a gunsmith tinker with a gun and he doesn't get it right, I am not taking it to the company warranty clerk.

[Lester Polfus]

Removing side plate voids warranty. I never heard of a custom Taurus shop either.


Well, boo hoo.

If I have a gunsmith tinker with a gun and he doesn't get it right, I am not taking it to the company warranty clerk.

Well...

One strike against them is that there are zero Taurus parts. Smith parts are readily available. I'm pretty sure gunsmiths can order Ruger parts that aren't available to the general public.

With Taurus, it either gets fixed at the Mothership, or not at all.

However... At $399 we're pretty much talking a disposable firearm in this day and age. If Taurus will pay the shipping, I guess it's worth my while to make the 60 mile drive to a place where I can ship it, and hope whatever bubble-gum chewing clerk at the hub knows how to ship a gun. If Taurus wants to ship it on my dime, maybe I just strip all the parts out of the frame, and sell them on Gunbroker.

[Salamander]

I've got to say, I've never even considered buying a Taurus. But, looking at the options in grips and figuring out how to put a removable front sight blade on a revolver that doesn't cost $1k, I'm impressed. I won't be able to purchase the RDS model in CA until our tyrannical LIST is struck down. For a non-dedicated person and home defense, this might be the best option out there. One of the real benefits of RDS is that dry fire gives the shooter so much more feedback with less training and repetitions. Also, anyone under about 35 who has played FPS games understands the dot without explanation or training. This will be a winner. It will also be fun with a 3" barrel and light loads. I predict any dude who purchases one for himself will have it bogarted by wife/kids. Should probably come out with a 4" .22 version as a follow up.

Taurus has added revolvers to the California roster as recently as late summer 2022, and they have 19 variants listed there as of five minutes ago (that may update after Jan 1). Colt also added the 3-inch Python. So apparently it really is still possible for revolvers. If this hypothetical RDS-ready revolver does appear on the roster, I might need to go take a very close look...

[jetfire]

Taurus has added revolvers to the California roster as recently as late summer 2022, and they have 19 variants listed there as of five minutes ago (that may update after Jan 1). Colt also added the 3-inch Python. So apparently it really is still possible for revolvers. If this hypothetical RDS-ready revolver does appear on the roster, I might need to go take a very close look...

One of my personal crusades is to get as many of our guns on the CA approved list as possible. I’ve got homies behind enemy lines there, which is why I got the 856 EG on the list as soon as possible.

[awp_101]

Again, if I knew anything about these guns that definitely don't exist yet, I'd say that the 10.5 RH is a really cool looking space gun and that the compensator is absolutely wonderful and insanely effective at reducing recoil on 460 rounds, and it makes shooting spicy 45 Colt like shooting a 22.

Hypothetically, of course because I don't know anything about these guns that don't exist

Hypothetically a .357 version would be awesome if it were a possibility and I’m not even hypothetically asking for a Maximum. A regular old Magnum would hypothetically suit me just fine.

[lee n. field]

Well...
If Taurus will pay the shipping, I guess it's worth my while to make the 60 mile drive to a place where I can ship it, and hope whatever bubble-gum chewing clerk at the hub knows how to ship a gun.

When I shipped one in a few months ago now, they (Taurus CS) emailed me a FedEx tag. I packed, and handed it off to a "FedEx agent" (clerk in Walgreens who scanned it and put it in a locked cabinet for the driver). No one but me knew it was anything out of the ordinary. Painless process on my part.

[PNWTO]

I'm willing to be persuaded, because I'm one of those people who can actually for reals use a "foraging gun," which I define as someone who can actually use a single, lightweight firearm that is easily packed around all day and can kill everything from grouse to blacktail deer, depending on what happens along.

Meme-snark in my previous Judge comment, aside. I do seem some similar value in such a use.

Also have looked hard and long at the .454 Raging Hunter as a more packable .45 Colt launcher for those big game seasons where I’m pulling Sherpa duty for family.

[Totem Polar]

If that's the worst thing I get called today (and at this point it is the leader in the clubhouse) then it's been a damn good day.:cool:

Dude! To be clear, I was calling the .460 tubular x-frame space gun a platypus; that’s one weird looking gun. *You,* on the other hand, are far from the king of the weirdos. I mean, you may well be, but you’re my sort of weirdo, by all posted evidence.

Apologies for the error in communication. Sincerely. For real.

[DanTheWolfman]

I know you RDS guys are geeking,
but surprised I seem to be the only one so jonesing for a hypothetical comeback of a 6-shot 3" .357 in a nicer carry weight than most others (and more affordable than k6s king cobra options).

[BillSWPA]

I've got to say, I've never even considered buying a Taurus. But, looking at the options in grips and figuring out how to put a removable front sight blade on a revolver that doesn't cost $1k, I'm impressed. I won't be able to purchase the RDS model in CA until our tyrannical LIST is struck down. For a non-dedicated person and home defense, this might be the best option out there. One of the real benefits of RDS is that dry fire gives the shooter so much more feedback with less training and repetitions. Also, anyone under about 35 who has played FPS games understands the dot without explanation or training. This will be a winner. It will also be fun with a 3" barrel and light loads. I predict any dude who purchases one for himself will have it bogarted by wife/kids. Should probably come out with a 4" .22 version as a follow up.

I second everything above, and will add that a .22 DA revolver with a red dot would be an excellent training/instruction gun as long as the trigger pull is reasonable.

[Edster]

I know you RDS guys are geeking,
but surprised I seem to be the only one so jonesing for a hypothetical comeback of a 6-shot 3" .357 in a nicer carry weight than most others (and more affordable than k6s king cobra options).

I don't think you're alone in this. I keep an eye out for the Wiley Clapp but I haven't found the sweet spot of price/availability/condition/money-in-my-pocket yet. The prices seem to have shot up over $200 during the Great Supply Chain Debacle and show no signs of ever coming back down to earth. And that's if you can find one.

For me, the rugged, carry-worthy 3" 357 is more of a want than a need. The Glock 19 I already have is far more practical. There's a lot of things I need that $900 could buy before a super-cool spinny bullet launcher.

[Hizzie]

A 942 Ultra Lite CH version in 22LR would be killer.

[jandbj]

A 942 Ultra Lite CH version in 22LR would be killer.

☝🏼 So much this! ☝🏼

[Salamander]

One of my personal crusades is to get as many of our guns on the CA approved list as possible. I’ve got homies behind enemy lines there, which is why I got the 856 EG on the list as soon as possible.

Thank you. CA DOJ usually makes things more complicated than they need to be, so I appreciate the effort.

My background is management not marketing, but I can see some logic in that effort. California, whatever we think of state policies, is the fifth largest economy in the world... maybe fourth, based on recent projections. That's a lot of potential sales. With the impossibility of adding any new semi-autos to the roster pending resolution of pending litigation which could take years, I'm seeing more and more revolvers at local ranges. Not at all unusual for it to be 50% on my RSO duty days. Not sure that's translated to carry yet, although my intuition is that's increasing too (and I no longer get raised eyebrows at the Sheriff's office when I add another revolver to my CCW). And at least way up north here, most everyone owns a gun or three or 20. Of the five LGS within about 20 miles, I've recently seen a Taurus on the shelf at two or three of them at least.

ETA: Just ran through the list, and 316 (38%) of the handguns currently on the roster are revolvers. A lot are simple variations of finish or barrel length, of course. S&W and Ruger have by far the most revolvers listed, but I think Taurus has now climbed into third place.

[JCN]

I know you RDS guys are geeking,
but surprised I seem to be the only one so jonesing for a hypothetical comeback of a 6-shot 3" .357 in a nicer carry weight than most others (and more affordable than k6s king cobra options).

Well, I guess he exceeded the acceptable dickhead parameter of PF 2017+….

[RevolverRob]

Stoked for this.

Can't wait for the full, real, announcement.

[jetfire]

Thank you. CA DOJ usually makes things more complicated than they need to be, so I appreciate the effort.

My background is management not marketing, but I can see some logic in that effort. California, whatever we think of state policies, is the fifth largest economy in the world... maybe fourth, based on recent projections. That's a lot of potential sales. With the impossibility of adding any new semi-autos to the roster pending resolution of pending litigation which could take years, I'm seeing more and more revolvers at local ranges. Not at all unusual for it to be 50% on my RSO duty days. Not sure that's translated to carry yet, although my intuition is that's increasing too (and I no longer get raised eyebrows at the Sheriff's office when I add another revolver to my CCW). And at least way up north here, most everyone owns a gun or three or 20. Of the five LGS within about 20 miles, I've recently seen a Taurus on the shelf at two or three of them at least.

ETA: Just ran through the list, and 316 (38%) of the handguns currently on the roster are revolvers. A lot are simple variations of finish or barrel length, of course. S&W and Ruger have by far the most revolvers listed, but I think Taurus has now climbed into third place.

Most importantly it's usually 3rd or 4th in terms of guns purchased per year behind the expected power house states. It's also one of the biggest states, as you've noticed, for revolver purchases. Part of that is because the way your stupid list is written, if I already have, say the 856 approved on the list, and I just make a version with a different barrel length, that's the same gun according to your stupid state.

[awp_101]

Dude! To be clear, I was calling the .460 tubular x-frame space gun a platypus; that’s one weird looking gun. *You,* on the other hand, are far from the king of the weirdos. I mean, you may well be, but you’re my sort of weirdo, by all posted evidence.

Apologies for the error in communication. Sincerely. For real.
Fear not my fine feathered, guitar-slinging, revolver aficionado! I took it in jest anyway because I'm always up for a good laugh! :cool:

[awp_101]

Are the hammers on the CH models really concealed like a 442 or is it just a bobbed DAO hammer?

[jetfire]

Are the hammers on the CH models really concealed like a 442 or is it just a bobbed DAO hammer?

Bobbed DAO hammer

[awp_101]

Thanks! More of a "concealment" hammer rather than a concealed hammer.

[jetfire]

Thanks! More of a "concealment" hammer rather than a concealed hammer.

That's definitely correct, and fixing technical nomenclature is like medium on my list

[Salamander]

Most importantly it's usually 3rd or 4th in terms of guns purchased per year behind the expected power house states. It's also one of the biggest states, as you've noticed, for revolver purchases. Part of that is because the way your stupid list is written, if I already have, say the 856 approved on the list, and I just make a version with a different barrel length, that's the same gun according to your stupid state.

"Stupid" is more polite than some of what I hear it called around here. I used to assume it was intentional obstructionism within state government and probably there's some of that, but after reading the third-party report on the June DOJ data breach it's clear that a lot of it is actually a lack of training at low and mid levels, and an even bigger lack of effective oversight by those at higher levels. So I just don't expect much from Sacramento. But hey, if it helps you get more cool revolvers on the shelves that's a silver lining.

[jetfire]

"Stupid" is more polite than some of what I hear it called around here. I used to assume it was intentional obstructionism within state government and probably there's some of that, but after reading the third-party report on the June DOJ data breach it's clear that a lot of it is actually a lack of training at low and mid levels, and an even bigger lack of effective oversight by those at higher levels. So I just don't expect much from Sacramento. But hey, if it helps you get more cool revolvers on the shelves that's a silver lining.

I try to be nice to Cali, since I'm from there originally. Born and raised in the Mojave Desert

[JRV]

This is exactly what I pictured when I have sporadically harassed Caleb on IG over the past year. Not an L-frame wearing a mailbox on a crazy thick plate that mounts to a rear sight platform. A thin topstrap mounting option for a compact 6-shot .38.

I presume holstermakers will be ready given Caleb’s connections.

[BillSWPA]

That's definitely correct, and fixing technical nomenclature is like medium on my list

Regardless of whether it is a concealment hammer or concealed hammer, the absence of a prominent hammer spur is a good thing.

[wmu12071]

A 942 Ultra Lite CH version in 22LR would be killer.

This is a great idea. Also for a second I thought this thread could get expense. Then I thought about it again and the reality is that we could probably get a 6 shot 38 with an RDS and a 8 shot 22 with an RDS for the price of a 357 with a mail box...

[lee n. field]

TAURUS 856 TORO- Red dot optic equipped revolver.

Of the revolvers in the now vanished article, I'm really only interested in the small self defense oriented guns.

Thoughts on the TORO 856 (and 605):

Taurus' other TORO models are more expensive than the non-TORO. I expect that. More machining, more parts. Likely also true of these revolvers.

The thing that makes a snubby revolver really useful for me in my current life is pocket carry. With a top strap mounted optic, even a short barrel snubby is too big for pocket carry. If you're going to have a belt gun, it may as well be a 3", The 3" 856 seems popular now. The 3" 605 is something that's come and gone a few times over the years.

That said, depending on what's done, this might also be a mount for an alternative iron sight, something better than the typical trench, lower profile than an optic.

[jandbj]

I saw mention of a rear sight blade on the TORO…

Capacity: 6 Rounds Action Type: Double Action / Single Action Firing System: Hammer Front Sight: Removable Serrated Blade Rear Sight: Fixed Includes Optic Mount for micro Red Dots Grip: Soft Rubber

And that part is exciting too.

[awp_101]

While we're wishing and hoping, jetfire is there any chance the 856 line will get a real rear sight instead of just the standard gutter sight? Something like the Wiley Clapp Rugers?

[45dotACP]

Strange as it is to say...it sounds like Taurus is getting better.

In times past I would remark that there's no reason to buy a Taurus when LE trade in guns are available, but I've heard some talk even from the 1911 world that they sent a gun to none other than Joe Chambers and basically said "keep it, but let us know what dimensions need changing."

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[jetfire]

While we're wishing and hoping, jetfire is there any chance the 856 line will get a real rear sight instead of just the standard gutter sight? Something like the Wiley Clapp Rugers?

It's certainly not impossible.

Here's the thing, right? We can do literally anything. We could make a 30 Super Carry 6 shot small frame revolver if we wanted to, but will it sell is the question I'm accountable to Brazil for

[Hizzie]

It's certainly not impossible.

Here's the thing, right? We can do literally anything. We could make a 30 Super Carry 6 shot small frame revolver if we wanted to, but will it sell is the question I'm accountable to Brazil for

Logistically I suspect the 32acp View is a lot easier sell than 30SC in Latin America.

[jtcarm]

Red dot on a bull[emoji848]

Wouldn’t he chase himself?

[CarloMNL]

They just released the product video.

https://youtu.be/fC-pOLOMxuk

[Whirlwind06]

I don't need another gun (as I'm sure is true for most folks here). I expect I'll buy this, if for no other reason than to reward Taurus for making something that Ruger and S&W don't seem motivated to make. I carry an LCR with laser a lot now so I can see this replacing the LCR.

[jandbj]

They just released the product video.

https://youtu.be/fC-pOLOMxuk

I’m liking it. But would also like to see what the rear sight that fits in place of the plate is.

[Ndbbm]

On the video it looked like the plate attached over a sight channel cut out

Jason

[PNWTO]

jetfire, are these starting to ship or more of a Q2+ thing?

Now to order an EPS.

[lee n. field]

They're on the Taurus website too. MSRP only a little bit higher than non-TORO.

[defilade]

Shut up and take my money!

[Ndbbm]

Is there going to be an executive version?

Jason

[BK14]

A 942 Ultra Lite CH version in 22LR would be killer.

Been looking for a 942, specifically the UL 3”. Are these even made anymore? Can’t find them in stock anywhere.

[jetfire]

jetfire, are these starting to ship or more of a Q2+ thing?

Now to order an EPS.

These are shipping to distributors Q1

[jetfire]

I’m liking it. But would also like to see what the rear sight that fits in place of the plate is.

The rear sight is a standard trench rear. If you take the plate off it’s basically an 856 Defender

[jandbj]

The rear sight is a standard trench rear. If you take the plate off it’s basically an 856 Defender

Will the plates be available for us to have our existing 856’s drilled and tapped?

I already went all in on 3” defenders and have 3. 🤷🏻*♂️

[TicTacticalTimmy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHFHqluF9tY

Caleb showing off the TORO, you can tell he's excited about this!

[PNWTO]

Harry’s Holsters. Stolen from the FB of jetfire. Excited to see the DSG offering.

100304

[GJM]

I shot Darryl's 856 ultralite today. It shot to the sights and had a good trigger. It felt S&W good, or better, for a fraction of the cost.

[CarloMNL]

I shot Darryl's 856 ultralite today. It shot to the sights and had a good trigger. It felt S&W good, or better, for a fraction of the cost.

What ammo were you shooting in the 856? DB mentioned in this IG/FB posts that he installed a Galloway spring which is an inexpensive upgrade.

For the alloy frame/airweight ignorant, would the UltraLite fall under the carry often/shoot seldom category?

[sharps54]

The stainless 856 Toro has shown up on gunbroker for $360
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/967746305

[Lon]

The stainless 856 Toro has shown up on gunbroker for $360
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/967746305

That’s the last thing I need to buy this year, but damn that’s a good price.

[Duelist]

That’s the last thing I need to buy this year, but damn that’s a good price.

Give it time - the year is young! I’m sure I can find something that costs more that I would need less.

[ldunnmobile]

Been looking for a 942, specifically the UL 3”. Are these even made anymore? Can’t find them in stock anywhere.


Second this. In 22LR

[Pepper]

The stainless 856 Toro has shown up on gunbroker for $360
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/967746305

I grabbed one. I figure that it could be really nice because it is one of the first ones built or it could be really bad for the same reason. :D

[sharps54]

I grabbed one. I figure that it could be really nice because it is one of the first ones built or it could be really bad for the same reason. :D

I did as well, I wish I had the disposable funds to have gotten two since I expect at least one trip back to the factory for repairs. Hopefully the inevitable issue will come up sooner rather than later as I hope to take this to Revolver Round Up in November.

[Pepper]

I did as well, I wish I had the disposable funds to have gotten two since I expect at least one trip back to the factory for repairs. Hopefully the inevitable issue will come up sooner rather than later as I hope to take this to Revolver Round Up in November.

It is really sad that we think this way about a new firearm!

[sharps54]

It is really sad that we think this way about a new firearm!

To be fair if I was buying a S&W or Ruger online these days I’d have the same concern.

[sharps54]

I’ll post pics later but I picked mine up this afternoon and it appears to just be a 856 with a couple holes through the top strap. I’m not complaining but if the executive grade is a better gun I wonder if it would be better to buy one of them and just get this hole pattern drilled.

Edit to add I only looked at it briefly so it might be more involved than it looks at first glance.

[jetfire]

I’ll post pics later but I picked mine up this afternoon and it appears to just be a 856 with a couple holes through the top strap. I’m not complaining but if the executive grade is a better gun I wonder if it would be better to buy one of them and just get this hole pattern drilled.

Edit to add I only looked at it briefly so it might be more involved than it looks at first glance.

No, that's pretty much what it is. It's an 856 Defender (the three inch steel gun) that's drilled for our optics mount. The real engineering trick went into the mount itself, not the actual gun.

The good news is that the 856 uses a strut and coil mainspring, so cleaning up the trigger is simple: dry fire a bunch, then install a Galloway precision mainspring. Leave the trigger return spring alone. That's what I run in my small frames, and how DB set his up on my advice. The end result of that mod should eliminate trigger stacking at the end of the pull and reduce the overall pull weight to under 10lbs while still getting reliable ignition with domestic primers.

[JWH]

No, that's pretty much what it is. It's an 856 Defender (the three inch steel gun) that's drilled for our optics mount. The real engineering trick went into the mount itself, not the actual gun.

The good news is that the 856 uses a strut and coil mainspring, so cleaning up the trigger is simple: dry fire a bunch, then install a Galloway precision mainspring. Leave the trigger return spring alone. That's what I run in my small frames, and how DB set his up on my advice. The end result of that mod should eliminate trigger stacking at the end of the pull and reduce the overall pull weight to under 10lbs while still getting reliable ignition with domestic primers.

Will the mount be available separately?

[sharps54]

100585

[jetfire]

Will the mount be available separately?

As of right now, no. All the mounts we’re making are destined for production guns. I’ve asked the question about drilling customer guns for the mount but for now the focus is on making the guns

[Crazy Dane]

No, that's pretty much what it is. It's an 856 Defender (the three inch steel gun) that's drilled for our optics mount. The real engineering trick went into the mount itself, not the actual gun.

The good news is that the 856 uses a strut and coil mainspring, so cleaning up the trigger is simple: dry fire a bunch, then install a Galloway precision mainspring. Leave the trigger return spring alone. That's what I run in my small frames, and how DB set his up on my advice. The end result of that mod should eliminate trigger stacking at the end of the pull and reduce the overall pull weight to under 10lbs while still getting reliable ignition with domestic primers.


Can I ask a dumb question? Why not copy the Galloway spring at the factory?

[jetfire]

Can I ask a dumb question? Why not copy the Galloway spring at the factory?

Because the Galloway spring won't give 100% ignition regardless of primer, and if some hilljack buys the gun and it won't set off his Argentinian milsurp 38 Special with primers harder than woodpecker lips he's going to complain.

It's easier to build a gun that's going to work for the lowest common denominator and then let smart people make it work better for them.

[Crazy Dane]

Because the Galloway spring won't give 100% ignition regardless of primer, and if some hilljack buys the gun and it won't set off his Argentinian milsurp 38 Special with primers harder than woodpecker lips he's going to complain.

It's easier to build a gun that's going to work for the lowest common denominator and then let smart people make it work better for them.


Thanks, I figured that was going to be the answer.

[sharps54]

Recommendations for gear for the 856 Toro? I need an AiWB holster, an OWB holster, speedloaders, pouches, and of course a RDS.

[jetfire]

Recommendations for gear for the 856 Toro? I need an AiWB holster, an OWB holster, speedloaders, pouches, and of course a RDS.

Phlster has AIWB holsters coming, and Harry's Holsters has ones out already. Not a lot for OWB but a sufficiently relieved SP101 holster should work. For speed loaders you'll need either Colt D frame loaders from HKS or Speed Beez K-frame loaders. RDS: just get a 507k

[sharps54]

Phlster has AIWB holsters coming, and Harry's Holsters has ones out already. Not a lot for OWB but a sufficiently relieved SP101 holster should work. For speed loaders you'll need either Colt D frame loaders from HKS or Speed Beez K-frame loaders. RDS: just get a 507k

Thank you!

[Ndbbm]

Would one of these stand up to a 9mm conversion if you could get tk or such to cut it for the conversion and moon clips?

Jason

[wmu12071]

Phlster has AIWB holsters coming, and Harry's Holsters has ones out already. Not a lot for OWB but a sufficiently relieved SP101 holster should work. For speed loaders you'll need either Colt D frame loaders from HKS or Speed Beez K-frame loaders. RDS: just get a 507k

I don't see the Harry's Holster on the website. Am I missing something?

[Totem Polar]

Phlster has AIWB holsters coming, and Harry's Holsters has ones out already. Not a lot for OWB but a sufficiently relieved SP101 holster should work. For speed loaders you'll need either Colt D frame loaders from HKS or Speed Beez K-frame loaders. RDS: just get a 507k

I happen to know that DSG can provide a good AIWB fit, as well.
:cool:

[jh9]

Would one of these stand up to a 9mm conversion if you could get tk or such to cut it for the conversion and moon clips?

Jason

Cylinder walls are too thin. Stop notch cut directly over the chamber to accommodate the 6th round almost certainly doesn't leave enough metal for the higher pressure cartridges. It's not a problem unique to the Taurus 856. S&W magnum Ks had a similar setup, and even with a considerably larger cylinder the early guns still had a reputation for cylinder failures at the notch with sustained .357 use.

Compare to Kimber's K6, where they cut the stop notch as offset as possible (which required placing the cylinder stop just under the sideplate; you can't move it any further out). That was both larger (IIRC) and a clean-sheet-of-paper design. I assume Taurus wanted to reuse their existing frames, which limited where they could put the notch/stop.

If the 6-shot cylinder squeezed into a J-size-frame could safely handle 35,000psi they'd probably just chamber it in .357 and get both the people who wanted the 856 as it stands today in addition to the people who just absolutely have to have it in .357 magnum. Mostly so they can shoot six magnum rounds through it and then let it be a .38 for the rest of its life.

[sharps54]

Heck I probably won’t even shoot plus P through mine, wadcutters followed up by the best standard pressure load I can find that shoots close to the same point of aim is my plan.

[jetfire]

If the 6-shot cylinder squeezed into a J-size-frame could safely handle 35,000psi they'd probably just chamber it in .357 and get both the people who wanted the 856 as it stands today in addition to the people who just absolutely have to have it in .357 magnum. Mostly so they can shoot six magnum rounds through it and then let it be a .38 for the rest of its life.

This is absolutely correct; and it would also stop me from having to explain that we also make the 605 which is a 5 shot 357 Magnum.

For 9mm people we do make the 905. Before you can ask, any plans to expand the TORO line to existing revolver offerings depend on how well the TORO sells, so you know...go buy one.

[Austin Sibley]

Got one last week, zeroed, and 250 rounds of assorted .38 through it for testing and getting to know it.

The TORO mount is well designed. Excellent fit on the top strap of the gun, and great thread engagement for the mounting screws of the optic. The 507k interfaces very well with the recoil bosses and the screw posts of the mount, fit-wise. Mount was torqued to 18 inch-lbs per the Taurus manual, with the 507k screws torqued to 15 inch-lbs. Both cured with 243 threadlocker and marked. Given that the optic+mount aren’t on a violently reciprocating pistol slide, my guess is this will be a very robust setup without some of the challenges that come with auto pistol optics, but we’ll see.

This is the first time I’ve shot a wheelgun with an optic, and having a more useable sighting system than the typical shallow trench sights is an absolute gamechanger. That combined with the nature of revolver recoil, and the fact that the optic sits effectively still during recoil and doesn’t reciprocate, makes this such a ridiculously shootable setup. Even after my limited time with this, I don’t anticipate wanting to go back and shoot with the irons that are typical of small frame revolvers.

Presentation is taking some getting-used-to, but my brain is calibrating quickly to the taller height over bore.

This is my third 856, and so far they’ve all been problem-free and very shootable in stock form. They’ve also somehow had better apparent QC than my recent S&W purchases. I’ve ordered a second 856 TORO which is being topped with an EPS Carry, and very likely carried once I’ve vetted the setup for myself.

Just waiting on holsters.

102409
102410

[LittleLebowski]

Mine is en route. Still pondering RDS options.

[GJM]

The LGS got in an 856 Toro. Holy cow, does that trigger stack in DA!

[PNWTO]

Mine is en route. Still pondering RDS options.

Same here; following Caleb’s adventure with the Primary Arms piece but also waiting for an EPS-C or a 507 to appear.

[JHC]

Got one last week, zeroed, and 250 rounds of assorted .38 through it for testing and getting to know it.

The TORO mount is well designed. Excellent fit on the top strap of the gun, and great thread engagement for the mounting screws of the optic. The 507k interfaces very well with the recoil bosses and the screw posts of the mount, fit-wise. Mount was torqued to 18 inch-lbs per the Taurus manual, with the 507k screws torqued to 15 inch-lbs. Both cured with 243 threadlocker and marked. Given that the optic+mount aren’t on a violently reciprocating pistol slide, my guess is this will be a very robust setup without some of the challenges that come with auto pistol optics, but we’ll see.

This is the first time I’ve shot a wheelgun with an optic, and having a more useable sighting system than the typical shallow trench sights is an absolute gamechanger. That combined with the nature of revolver recoil, and the fact that the optic sits effectively still during recoil and doesn’t reciprocate, makes this such a ridiculously shootable setup. Even after my limited time with this, I don’t anticipate wanting to go back and shoot with the irons that are typical of small frame revolvers.

Presentation is taking some getting-used-to, but my brain is calibrating quickly to the taller height over bore.

This is my third 856, and so far they’ve all been problem-free and very shootable in stock form. They’ve also somehow had better apparent QC than my recent S&W purchases. I’ve ordered a second 856 TORO which is being topped with an EPS Carry, and very likely carried once I’ve vetted the setup for myself.

Just waiting on holsters.

102409
102410

Wow, badass review. Thank you!

[Joe S]

Got one last week, zeroed, and 250 rounds of assorted .38 through it for testing and getting to know it.



Great write up, and love the picture of the gun getting a workout.

[Tamara]

The LGS got in an 856 Toro. Holy cow, does that trigger stack in DA!

Mine’s not terrible. About like a factory J-frame.

I mean, a certain amount of stacking is inevitable with coil springs, so what’re ya gonna do?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

One thing I discovered is that there isn’t enough elevation adjustment in the EPS Carry to get wadcutters to shoot to POA. I’ve currently got it zeroed for 90gr Critical Defense Lite at seven yards (because I have a mess of it to use up) pending deciding on a carry load.

[Lex Luthier]

Mine’s not terrible. About like a factory J-frame.

I mean, a certain amount of stacking is inevitable with coil springs, so what’re ya gonna do?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

One thing I discovered is that there isn’t enough elevation adjustment in the EPS Carry to get wadcutters to shoot to POA. I’ve currently got it zeroed for 90gr Critical Defense Lite at seven yards (because I have a mess of it to use up) pending deciding on a carry load.

Good to know. Have you noticed any smoothing of the action after dry & live fire?
I've yet to handle one, but am intrigued.

[Tamara]

Good to know. Have you noticed any smoothing of the action after dry & live fire?
I've yet to handle one, but am intrigued.

It wasn’t really what you’d call rough to begin with.

It’s a pretty typical small-frame coil-spring DA revo trigger. A bit less than 11 pounds out of the box. Like with most triggers of this type, I think the best trigger job you could get for it is a case of ammo. ;)

I’ll have reviews in a couple dead tree books shortly.

[Tamara]

I assume Taurus wanted to reuse their existing frames, which limited where they could put the notch/stop.

If the 6-shot cylinder squeezed into a J-size-frame could safely handle 35,000psi they'd probably just chamber it in .357 and get both the people who wanted the 856 as it stands today in addition to the people who just absolutely have to have it in .357 magnum. Mostly so they can shoot six magnum rounds through it and then let it be a .38 for the rest of its life.

As an aside, the 856 is not simply the existing 85 frame with a sixth charge hole somehow magicked into the cylinder (https://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2023/03/gratuitous-gun-pr0n-233.html). It’s a new, larger frame.

102538

[GJM]

Mine’s not terrible. About like a factory J-frame.

I mean, a certain amount of stacking is inevitable with coil springs, so what’re ya gonna do?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

One thing I discovered is that there isn’t enough elevation adjustment in the EPS Carry to get wadcutters to shoot to POA. I’ve currently got it zeroed for 90gr Critical Defense Lite at seven yards (because I have a mess of it to use up) pending deciding on a carry load.

Maybe it was just my sample that stacked, or more likely all this shooting of striker and 2011 pistols has made me soft when it comes to heavier triggers!

[Tamara]

Maybe it was just my sample that stacked, or more likely all this shooting of striker and 2011 pistols has made me soft when it comes to heavier triggers!

Leaf springs rule. Coil springs suck.

[Austin Sibley]

One thing I discovered is that there isn’t enough elevation adjustment in the EPS Carry to get wadcutters to shoot to POA. I’ve currently got it zeroed for 90gr Critical Defense Lite at seven yards (because I have a mess of it to use up) pending deciding on a carry load.

I had to use almost all available elevation in my 507k for my 10 yard zero with Federal American Eagle 130 FMJ. Maxed out trying to get 158 RNL to hit POA, and then subsequently backed off. Next trip I’m gonna see how 120gr Federal Punch prints in relation.

102547

Trying some VZ grips. I’m not 100% in love with how these point in my hand with the optic, though they’re better than the OEM rubber grips, and I’m gonna experiment with them for a bit. Presenting a revolver with a high mechanical sight offset is a whole new experience for me.

[Tamara]

Presenting a revolver with a high mechanical sight offset is a whole new experience for me.

The technique I've been using since a few years ago starting with the 509 Compact MRD ...getting the gun horizontal early in the draw and just raising it into my eye line... is working pretty well with the 856 so far, letting me keep my head upright and shoulders relaxed.

[JCN]

One thing I discovered is that there isn’t enough elevation adjustment in the EPS Carry to get wadcutters to shoot to POA. I’ve currently got it zeroed for 90gr Critical Defense Lite at seven yards (because I have a mess of it to use up) pending deciding on a carry load.


I had to use almost all available elevation in my 507k for my 10 yard zero with Federal American Eagle 130 FMJ. Maxed out trying to get 158 RNL to hit POA, and then subsequently backed off. Next trip I’m gonna see how 120gr Federal Punch prints in relation.

What's old is new again....

It's such a common thing for revolvers with high height over bore that the old school Jpoint (the very first and original "K" cut footprint that then spawned the RMS and then the 507k and the EPS)....

Has a 1 degree shim available for it.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1069311863

I have used this (as well as an RMR 1 degree shim) when putting optics on revolvers in the past.

If you zero to 25 yards it'll require less drastic of an elevation shift too.

102588

EDIT: in a pinch, I have used folded pieces of aluminum foil to act as an angled shim on Revolvers. I wouldn’t do it on a reciprocating slide, but it holds up quite well on a revolver.

[Tamara]

1) Yes, I know.

2) Why would I zero a 3” CCW revolver at 25 yards?

[AlexSkillzz]

The limiting factor on my Taurus 85 in the sights and my eyes. Somehow I am still very accurate at 15 yards with it. An optic I'm sure would give me another vantage as well as an extra inch. The way I carry my 2" now it wouldn't make a difference and I can probably use the same holster. I'm not a big fan of carry optics, but I occasionally carry the snub as backup in the woods. I think the optic could come in handy then. This gun is definitely on my top list of next guns to buy.
I carried optic on a Glock for about a year or maybe more, I got fed up with the dust that gathers on the glass and went back to irons. I found I can be just as accurate with the right iron sights, if not more. The thing with Taurus revolvers is that they don't have good iron sight options. The optic option is a good alternative while keeping the price point good.
My good old 85 has never failed me. It handles the hottest loads, and has a nice trigger after I polished the internals. 102641

[JCN]

1) Yes, I know.

2) Why would I zero a 3” CCW revolver at 25 yards?

Why wouldn’t you?

Here is my 1” Taurus View at 25 yards


https://youtu.be/3eUt3AQgATk

Taurus 380 at 20 yards


https://youtu.be/C8vdt9u3uvs

856 up close.


https://youtu.be/M1MqgvDVRaI

Just because it’s a small revolver doesn’t change anything.

And if you had to take a longer shot you don’t want to send a round over their heads and hit someone else (a very real possibility when you zero a red dot too close).

If you zero at 25, you’ll at most be 1-2” low up close which most people aren’t good enough to matter.

You zero close with high height over bore and it’s going to be potentially WAY high out further.


EDIT: factory iron sight revolvers don’t put rounds over target heads. If you’re going to use an RDS on a revolver at least confirm whatever zero you have with a couple longer range shots just in case. You never know when you could be in a Dickens like situation and called to do more. You’d hate to hurt an innocent just because you didn’t know the ballistics and zero of your gun in that situation.

I like a 25 yard zero because I’ll never shoot higher than the target. I can aim head or upper torso and know I am still on target even if it hits mid or low chest at 50+ yards.

[JCN]

I know the usual self defense situation is 7 yards and closer.

If training time is limited it makes sense to concentrate on adequate speeds with adequate hits.

But know that it’s a compromise.

When training, don’t mentally limit yourself to lowest common denominator or it’s a recipe for stagnation.

With handguns I want to be able to aim high thoracic and know that even with bullet drop it’ll still be on target.

And not over the target. You want confidence that if you do your part, the gun will do its part.


https://youtu.be/YbmDaipBoJc

102650

This is what the sights look like:

102649

In a gun this small

102648

If you self limit your potential like “I’m only going to use this gun at 7 yards” then you’ll never push your skill.

[Tamara]

If you self limit your potential like “I’m only going to use this gun at 7 yards” then you’ll never push your skill.

I didn't say that.

You did, however, raise a good point with the POA/POI difference at longer ranges, and I need to check on that.

I also know that, for myself and my own skill level, attempting to "zero" a double action small frame revolver with an ~11# trigger pull at 25 yards is a fool's errand.

I'll need to see what kind of POA/POI difference a 10 yard zero with various carry loads gives out at 20 yards or so.

Thanks again for pointing that out.

[JCN]

I didn't say that.

You did, however, raise a good point with the POA/POI difference at longer ranges, and I need to check on that.

I also know that, for myself and my own skill level, attempting to "zero" a double action small frame revolver with an ~11# trigger pull at 25 yards is a fool's errand.

I'll need to see what kind of POA/POI difference a 10 yard zero with various carry loads gives out at 20 yards or so.

Thanks again for pointing that out.

You’re welcome, I’ve been bitten by a short RDS zero before and wanted to share.

Most of what I know is because I’ve previously screwed it up at some point. :)

A couple of tricks to get around that:

If at 10 yards aiming at a 2” circle, zero to have all rounds impact the bottom rim or lower than the circle.

That way you won’t be too high at distance.

Also to your first point, I’m not saying this is you but some people take a 7 yard target and are very happy to put things into a 5” circle and call it good. Then they stop working at their trigger press and timing because they don’t see the need to work farther.

That is totally fine if that’s all the time allotted for training.

But slow fire 7 yard into a 1-2” circle will give you B8 sized groups at 25 yards.

One of my favorite videos is:


https://youtu.be/H01kA1XCi7U

So by expecting more of yourself in dry fire, you can train to get hits that will work out to 25 yards.

When I say 25 yard zero, it doesn’t necessarily mean you have to use a 25 yard target to zero (just to confirm).

You can use a closer target and just choose to have POI be 1-2” lower than POA and that should get you close and avoid a grossly high shot at distance.

[MountainRaven]

A thought and a question:

The thought: I would take a red dot that is zeroed at 15, 20, 25 yards over one that cannot be zeroed at 7, whether I anticipated needing to use it only at 7 yards and in or not; I would rather deal with the holdover at the closer ranges, where the differences are going to be much more minor than not knowing exactly where my red dot is zeroed. (Conversely, I suppose one could bottom out the adjustment on their red dot and then increase the range to the targets until they find out what range their red dot is zeroed at, but that solution vexes me.)

The question: It appears the 856 TORO is capable of firing in single-action. Would it not make sense to zero it at longer ranges from a rest using the single-action, especially if one has difficulty using the double-action to get a zero at said longer ranges?

[Austin Sibley]

The question: It appears the 856 TORO is capable of firing in single-action. Would it not make sense to zero it at longer ranges from a rest using the single-action, especially if one has difficulty using the double-action to get a zero at said longer ranges?

I’ve done all zeroing and ammo testing by just gaming/staging the double action pull, which is (maybe unfortunately) very easy to do on these, given the stagey DA pull. But some very good consistency is possible like this, and I’ve been happy with the groups mine will produce with ammo it likes (130 grain jacketed stuff, it seems).

With my first two 856s, I attempted ammo testing with single action pulls, and for whatever reason neither gun would shoot as well in single action as they would in DA. jetfire has mentioned that DA revolvers will tend to lock up better in DA, but I have no idea what the mechanical reason is for this.

Today’s testing with 130gr Remington UMC. Very happy with how my example shoots this, and it looks to be a pretty decent training analogue for Federal Punch 120 +P, which seems to print maybe 0.75”-1” higher at 25 yards. Ultimately I think I’ll probably zero for Punch at 25 and train with UMC. Still very pleased with how mine is working, and really digging having a dot on a wheelgun.
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[Tamara]

A thought and a question:

The thought: I would take a red dot that is zeroed at 15, 20, 25 yards over one that cannot be zeroed at 7, whether I anticipated needing to use it only at 7 yards and in or not; I would rather deal with the holdover at the closer ranges, where the differences are going to be much more minor than not knowing exactly where my red dot is zeroed. (Conversely, I suppose one could bottom out the adjustment on their red dot and then increase the range to the targets until they find out what range their red dot is zeroed at, but that solution vexes me.)

The question: It appears the 856 TORO is capable of firing in single-action. Would it not make sense to zero it at longer ranges from a rest using the single-action, especially if one has difficulty using the double-action to get a zero at said longer ranges?

Two things, though:

It’s quite possible to zero it in the 7-10 yard range, just not with 650fps Black Hills match wadcutters. They’d print pretty high for the irons at that distance, too, I reckon. As an example, with the elevation adjustment bottomed out, it was still shooting ~2-3 inches high at seven yards with the slow, softball wadcutters.Yet when I switched to the ~1050fps 90gr Critical Defense Lite, I had to back off over a half turn on the adjustment screw to get it shooting to POA.

The other thing is that POI with a revolver tends to differ, sometimes greatly, when shooting DA vs. SA.

[JCN]

The other thing is that POI with a revolver tends to differ, sometimes greatly, when shooting DA vs. SA.

Can you explain this to me or have a reference?

I have not heard of this before from a mechanical standpoint (which doesn’t mean it isn’t potentially a thing).

[Tamara]

Can you explain this to me or have a reference?

I have not heard of this before from a mechanical standpoint (which doesn’t mean it isn’t potentially a thing).

As it was explained to me:

It’s one of those things where revolver POI tends to be a lot more influenced by how the gun interfaces with the individual shooter relative to the typical semiauto for a number of reasons: The fact that the recoil impulse is immediately transmitted to a standing breech rather than being moderated by the movement of a slide, the generally higher bore axis and heavier trigger, the wider range of available bullet weights and muzzle velocities (since they don’t need to stay inside a narrow envelope to function the gun). Just the differing grip the typical shooter uses when pulling a dozen-pound DA trigger versus touching off a two-pound SA can have a big effect on what the gun does during the dwell time.

It’s one of those things that would disappear if you put the gun in a Ransom Rest or held the gun with perfect consistency. I think there was a better explanation in Hatcher. I’ll check.

[Tamara]

..some people take a 7 yard target and are very happy to put things into a 5” circle and call it good.

If someone’s shooting a 5” target at 7, they’d better be hosing. :D

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[luckyman]

If someone’s shooting a 5” target at 7, they’d better be hosing. :D

102698

Dang a couple of those motorized target positioners (or whatever you call them) could probably function as little drone tanks with how many bullet strikes it looks like they can take.

[AlexSkillzz]

Wait, so... Some people want to zero their dot to match their trigger jerk? Wouldn't it be easier to practice not to have a trigger jerk? I changed grips on my old 85 and it increased my trigger pull distance making me have a bad trigger jerk. I spent about 30 minutes of dry fire practice to get the right muscle memory in sync again. Single or double action makes no difference, if you are jerking you need more dry fire practice. Only then once you have eliminated the jerk you should zero the dot.

[Tamara]

Wait, so... Some people want to zero their dot to match their trigger jerk?

No. That's not what was said.

You do know what "dwell time" is and why it's important for the relationship between POA and POI?

EDIT: Here's an informative piece (https://revolverguy.com/sight-regulation-and-point-of-impact/). It's about irons, but a lot of the same principles apply.

[Tamara]

Dang a couple of those motorized target positioners (or whatever you call them) could probably function as little drone tanks with how many bullet strikes it looks like they can take.

The carriers themselves are tough as nails. What's bad is a bullet strike on those rails can dimple them and impeded the travel of the carrier.

Alas, I was the the first one to cause that when a used G17 I bought doubled (https://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2015/12/fixing-g-lock.html), thanks to the previous owner's shadetree "trigger job".

[JCN]

Single or double action makes no difference, if you are jerking you need more dry fire practice. Only then once you have eliminated the jerk you should zero the dot.


No. That's not what was said.

You do know what "dwell time" is and why it's important for the relationship between POA and POI?

As clarification and to help myself learn, I’m going to try to explain what I think I’m understanding from this:

A revolver is more sensitive to dwell time muzzle lift because the energy rotates around the hand and grip fulcrum without a slide to translate some energy straight backwards. I have definitely noticed this with regard to sensitivity of different ammunition in revolvers over semi automatic.

Assuming good trigger presses without any appreciable flinch or dip:

As the firmness and placement of the rotational fulcrum of the grip (higher versus lower) changes, so does the torque arm leverage of the muzzle lift.

So if someone does not have the same reproducible hold ergonomics for single action and double action (which can sometimes be variable if there are reach and strength issues for strong hand rotation and trigger finger placement for double action)…

You basically have different amounts of resistance and changes in the physics that affect the ability of the muzzle to rotate during the dwell time.

Does that sound reasonable?



It’s one of those things that would disappear if you put the gun in a Ransom Rest or held the gun with perfect consistency. I think there was a better explanation in Hatcher. I’ll check.


I am super thankful that you included this last comment, it really helped clarify and solidify what we were talking about for me. I use the same grip for every type of handgun so I have not noticed any changes in double and single action revolver impact because a lot of my handgun work is DA/SA semi autos so I’m used to having a grip that optimizes the balance between both actions.

[Tamara]

Exactly. If your grip is perfectly consistent, the difference in POI would likely vanish.

[Corse]

Exactly. If your grip is perfectly consistent, the difference in POI would likely vanish.

I wonder if that’s what’s messing with my ammo testing from a rest? I’m focused so much on the sights and with different power factor loads over a long string of shooting, I know my grip isn’t super consistent.

[Tamara]

I wonder if that’s what’s messing with my ammo testing from a rest? I’m focused so much on the sights and with different power factor loads over a long string of shooting, I know my grip isn’t super consistent.

That makes a big difference with a revolver, also whether the butt is resting on the bench/bag or not.

[Corse]

That makes a big difference with a revolver, also whether the butt is resting on the bench/bag or not.

So should I not be resting the butt on anything? Technically, my hand was resting on the bag with the barrel supported by the rest.

[Tamara]

So should I not be resting the butt on anything? Technically, my hand was resting on the bag with the barrel supported by the rest.

It can affect how fast & how much the muzzle rises, relative to just shooting offhand. I seem to get the best results supporting the barrel but leaving an inch or so of clearance under the butt to keep it from printing noticeably lower than it would for me offhand. Again, though, this is a thing that’s going to vary between shooters based on grip strength and technique.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Exactly. If your grip is perfectly consistent, the difference in POI would likely vanish.

Sounds to me like this is the key to the whole discussion. A consistent grip should always be a goal when it comes to habdgun technique.

Besides differences in grip, i dont see how the mechanical dwell time could meaningfully differ between SA and DA.

Not sure how big a difference it makes, but dwell time measured from the time the primer is popped is also going to typically be much longer in a revolver. Consider a target .38 where an 800fps bullet needs to make it through 6-8" of barrel+chamber, compared to a 9mm where a 1200fps bullet has to make it through 4" total.

[Tamara]

Sounds to me like this is the key to the whole discussion. A consistent grip should always be a goal when it comes to habdgun technique.

Besides differences in grip, i dont see how the mechanical dwell time could meaningfully differ between SA and DA.

It’s not the mechanical dwell time that differs, but what the gun does during that time. Thank you for clarifying your understanding of the topic at hand.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Can you help me clarify my understanding?

If your grip is the same whether firing SA or DA, in what way does "what the gun does during that time" differ?

[Tamara]

Can you help me clarify my understanding?

If your grip is the same whether firing SA or DA, in what way does "what the gun does during that time" differ?

If your grip is legitimately perfectly identical whether shooting DA or SA, you don't need to worry about this.

So no fear and drive on! :cool:

[Edster]

For me at least, a good DA trigger stroke involves muscles doing different things versus than the simple press of a single action.

DA demands some gripping to keep the sights aligned while muscles are flexing through a longer range. When I'm doing it well, I'm also focusing on follow-through, which means there's still finger tension during recoil.

With SA, it's more of an align/press/bang. The muscles in the hand may not be as tensed. This is especially true if the tension is making it harder to steady the sights.

The result may be different levels of grip/squeeze/tenseness when the gun recoils, thus different amounts of barrel rise before the bullet leaves the barrel.

I'm usually shooting .357 in a revolver so it all kinda requires holding on firmly. I could see it being different for different calibers, guns, and people, though.

I didn't really "get" any of this until I noticed that my sight adjustments held true for rounds of similar velocities more than for rounds of similar weights. In other words, a 158-grain .357 at 1300 fps and a 140-grain .357 at 1300 fps would both hit to the sights. A 158-grain .38 at 800-ish fps would be way high.

[LittleLebowski]

Does anyone have a training load worked up for one of these, preferably with BE86?

[revchuck38]

I’m using 4.6 grains of BE-86 under a coated 158-grain LSWC. That’s the max standard pressure load. IIRC, it runs ~750 fps from my S&W M49. It burns pretty cleanly and gives good accuracy. It runs just over 800 fps from my 3” M10.

[LittleLebowski]

I’m using 4.6 grains of BE-86 under a coated 158-grain LSWC. That’s the max standard pressure load. IIRC, it runs ~750 fps from my S&W M49. It burns pretty cleanly and gives good accuracy. It runs just over 800 fps from my 3” M10.

Oh cool, because I haz 158s. I was under the impression that these liked lighter bullets. Thank you!

[revchuck38]

Oh cool, because I haz 158s. I was under the impression that these liked lighter bullets. Thank you!

To be clear, I don't have a Taurus, this is just a BE-86 load I run in my M49. I'd just load up a few and see where they shoot from your gun before you get too crazy. :)

[LittleLebowski]

Getting there.

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[Jamie]

Getting there.


Looking good!

Dumb question and I apologize if you've already mentioned it and I just missed it.
But did you order your 856 and have it delivered? Or was it a local purchase?
I ask only because I'd like handle one first and haven't seen one in the wild in East Tennessee yet.

I definitely have the "wants" for one of these and would enjoy working up a handload to make it happy. :)

[LittleLebowski]

Looking good!

Dumb question and I apologize if you've already mentioned it and I just missed it.
But did you order your 856 and have it delivered? Or was it a local purchase?
I ask only because I'd like handle one first and haven't seen one in the wild in East Tennessee yet.

I definitely have the "wants" for one of these and would enjoy working up a handload to make it happy. :)

I’ll just say that I’ve got friends in low places 😁

[Jamie]

I’ll just say that I’ve got friends in low places 😁

LOL
Well done LL!

I'll just keep looking.
All in good time. 👍

[Hizzie]

Getting there.

102861

Tulster holster?

[LittleLebowski]

Tulster holster?

Yup, I’m awaiting better from Tony Mayer but, this Tulster is fantastic for the price (and delivery speed). I think to get the amount of tension I like in a holster (not too loose), I’d have to heat this thing up and mold in a little more in the trigger guard, but for the money, these things are great.

[LittleLebowski]

Yup, I’m awaiting better from Tony Mayer but, this Tulster is fantastic for the price (and delivery speed). I think to get the amount of tension I like in a holster (not too loose), I’d have to heat this thing up and mold in a little more in the trigger guard, but for the money, these things are great.

I did have to do a little surgery with my Milwaukee oscillating tool for the RDS, no biggie.

[Tony Mayer]

I did have to do a little surgery with my Milwaukee oscillating tool for the RDS, no biggie.

We did get our 856 master molds but still waiting on the real gun for test fitment!

[lee n. field]

We did get our 856 master molds but still waiting on the real gun for test fitment!

Once you get to producing them, I'll likely get one. (The IWB I got from you guys for my LCR was "just right".)

[frozentundra]

jetfire

I'm wondering if you recall having done any YouTube/podcast long-form discussions of the TORO revolvers specifically or 856 series revolvers more generally? If so, do you recall which episode/channel/platform may contain the relevant segments?

Thanks

[LittleLebowski]

We did get our 856 master molds but still waiting on the real gun for test fitment!

Just set aside an OWB and AIWB, and...

https://c.tenor.com/0-e7d7ct3G0AAAAC/shut-up-and-take-my-money-futurama.gif

[Tony Mayer]

Getting there.

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Not bagging on the holster maker in any way, but with that ride height the red dot is under the belt. Does that create a "wing" type effect and rotate the grip out? Or is the cylinder keeping that from happening?

[LittleLebowski]

Not bagging on the holster maker in any way, but with that ride height the red dot is under the belt. Does that create a "wing" type effect and rotate the grip out? Or is the cylinder keeping that from happening?

You're very good at what you do. Yes, it can impede draw. You have to reposition the belt buckle. Did my stuff ship yet? :D

[LittleLebowski]

No, that's pretty much what it is. It's an 856 Defender (the three inch steel gun) that's drilled for our optics mount. The real engineering trick went into the mount itself, not the actual gun.

The good news is that the 856 uses a strut and coil mainspring, so cleaning up the trigger is simple: dry fire a bunch, then install a Galloway precision mainspring. Leave the trigger return spring alone. That's what I run in my small frames, and how DB set his up on my advice. The end result of that mod should eliminate trigger stacking at the end of the pull and reduce the overall pull weight to under 10lbs while still getting reliable ignition with domestic primers.

This?
https://gallowayprecision.com/taurus/856/reduced-power-spring-kit-for-taurus-856-revolvers

[LittleLebowski]

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Austin Sibley which grips are those?

[Austin Sibley]

Austin Sibley which grips are those?

These are VZ Grips Operator II

https://vzgrips.com/shop-all/revolvers-grips/taurus-sfr-grips/

[Bruce in WV]

I'd like to play with one of the new optic bases and see what other fixed sight revolvers it might fit. Are they available?

[defilade]

I have held off saying anything about my experience with my new TORO but I think it’s time.

I first purchased a 2” version of the 856 in 2021. I didn’t have very high hopes, but I was really impressed. I found myself carrying the gun most of the time.

So when I heard about the TORO, I was really exited and bought one on Gunbroker as soon as they came out in January. A RDO on a revolver seemed awesome to me, and my eyesight is starting to get where I am having a hard time seeing my front sight.

I took the gun out and ran 100 rounds through it to see how it did before mounting the optic and plate. The gun was very well built and locks up tight. I was impressed with the fit and I was super exited about carrying this gun. This revolver is even better than my 2” gun.

I went inside (my range is out my back door) and cleaned the gun up. I started the mount the plate onto the gun and found that one of the screws wouldn’t even start to go. I didn’t want to cross thread anything so I stopped. I had to work the next day(at the Fire Department) so I couldn’t do anything with the gun. I decided to see if I could just find a replacement screw, but I couldn’t find one anywhere. I even looked online.

I contacted Taurus. After about 45 minutes on the phone between being on hold and trying to explain what the issue was. I told them that I was more than willing to just purchase a few new mounting screws. They first tried to sell me screws to a G3, and had no idea what a 856 even was. Finally they told me that I would have to send the whole gun in. They said this was the only option and that they were unable to sell me any screws.

They received the gun on February 6th. And here we are almost 8 weeks later and I still don’t have the gun and all they can tell me is that they need parts. On the Taurus service page my gun is listed as step 2 of 4. It hasn’t moved from this spot since I checked on it a month ago.

I am not impressed with their customer service as of right now. I spent my money on a gun that had a bad mounting screw and now I don’t even have my gun or a good answer on when they will finally get around to getting a screw.

I was really hoping Taurus had changed, I have been telling people to buy Taurus revolvers, and that they had changed. I guess maybe I was a little premature on my statements about how they were good to go now.

I will update IF I ever se my gun again.

Wade Baringer

[JCN]

I went inside (my range is out my back door) and cleaned the gun up. I started the mount the plate onto the gun and found that one of the screws wouldn’t even start to go. I didn’t want to cross thread anything so I stopped. I had to work the next day(at the Fire Department) so I couldn’t do anything with the gun. I decided to see if I could just find a replacement screw, but I couldn’t find one anywhere. I even looked online.

I am not impressed with their customer service as of right now. I spent my money on a gun that had a bad mounting screw and now I don’t even have my gun or a good answer on when they will finally get around to getting a screw.

Was tap and die to clean up the threads not an option? That seems like something a quick trip to ACE hardware could have provided?

[defilade]

Was tap and die to clean up the threads not an option? That seems like something a quick trip to ACE hardware could have provided?

So, apparently the screw head must be proprietary? I could find screws, but nothing with a head that would work with the mount. If I would have know it was going to take this long with no end in sight, I would have just tried to shave down a screw head and make it work.

I didn’t want to mess around and screw up the gun or mount because it was brand new from the factory.

Wade

[D-der]

Out of curiosity, did they cover the return shipping charge?

[defilade]

Out of curiosity, did they cover the return shipping charge?

Yes they paid for shipping.

[D-der]

Yes they paid for shipping.

I'm quite pleased with my 856 Defender and its trouble free but...at least that's good to hear,I hope they take care of you!

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Sounds like the issue is not their policies, but rather their failure to hire people who understand guns to answer the phones at CS.

[PNWTO]

Sounds like the issue is not their policies, but rather their failure to hire people who understand guns to answer the phones at CS.

I would also suspect that, with a newly released and shipping product, that there may be a training gap. I would also hazard a totally uninformed guess that they may not have a pile of small parts accrued yet for just these matters.

[jetfire]

This?
https://gallowayprecision.com/taurus/856/reduced-power-spring-kit-for-taurus-856-revolvers

That’s the one. I just set up a 2 inch 856 for Craig with that spring

[JHC]

Can you explain this to me or have a reference?

I have not heard of this before from a mechanical standpoint (which doesn’t mean it isn’t potentially a thing).

I have a faded memory from the true olden days that the lock time of a double action shot can be/is different than the lock time of the same double action revolver cocked in single action. Maybe that was just older S&Ws. And that the double action shot has a shorter lock time.

If my memory serves me correctly that sort of is close to a mechanical explanation or rather a mechanical "factor". I've not seen it manifest significantly enough to matter.

My hard zero's were single action because that's how I shot squirrels with a K-22.

[Dave303]

That’s the one. I just set up a 2 inch 856 for Craig with that spring

Is there a reason not to use the trigger return spring from that set?
I have a 856 on order and have the Galloway set ready for it.

[jetfire]

Is there a reason not to use the trigger return spring from that set?
I have a 856 on order and have the Galloway set ready for it.

In general I prefer a stronger trigger return spring; using the Galloway won't compromise reliability, but it does make the return mushier and slower than is my personal preference. When you're shooting revolvers fast there's a significant benefit to hard return

[Fireman Dan]

Hi, new member. I bought a 856 Defender for my granddaughters first gun for Christmas. I liked it so well I’ve ordered myself one. I wanted a TORO model but was torn between buying a Defender and mounting the plate myself or buying a TORO and buying the houge grip and possibly the night sight extra. Since I found a great deal on a Defender and have access to a full machine shop, I decided to get a Defender and buy the optic plate when they become available. At the NRA show, they said they should be available in a month or so. Here’s my question for you that already have a TORO. How deep is the plate’s rear mounting hole? Does it go through into the firing pin channel? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Fireman Dan]

Hi! New member. I bought my granddaughter an 856 Defender for her first gun at Christmas. I liked it so well that I bought one for myself. I was torn between buying a TORO and Hogue grip and possibly a night sight or buying a Defender and optic plate when they become available. At the NRA show they said the optic plate should be available in about a month or so. Since I have access to a machine shop and found a great deal on a Defender, I went that route.

Here’s my questions for you TORO owners. Does the rear mounting screw hole go into the firing pin channel? If not, how deep is it?
Thanks in advance for any information would be helpful.

[MountainRaven]

Anybody know where we're at on JMCK, Dark Star Gear, Phlster(?) holsters for 3" 856s?

[Hizzie]

Anybody know where we're at on JMCK, Dark Star Gear, Phlster(?) holsters for 3" 856s?

Harry’s Icon2.0 is live on their site now.

Phlster said the City Special was just needing art and what not.

Dunno about how far Tom is with the Apollo.

I didn’t hear anything about Tony making something for the 856.

[lee n. field]

Anybody know where we're at on JMCK, Dark Star Gear, Phlster(?) holsters for 3" 856s?

Caleb on the Book of Faces (4/16/23) said "very soon", on the Phlster, with pictures.

[Polecat]

Jetfire, talk em into a “configurator” so I can build out a 2.5” ported UL, concealed hammer, MRD with basic action job.

I would choose .327 magnum!

[frozentundra]

I will settle for a 3" Ultralight TORO in .32 H&R Magnum. I don't think this is too much to ask. At least 15 of us will buy them. Chopped hammer if you're not too busy.

[elbereth]

Hi, New member, however, not new shooter!
I purchased an 856 TORO partially based on the great info in this thread. I chose a Riton MPRD 2 based on its compatibility with the mount footprint, however, the included screws do not fit. The vertical cylinders that receive the optic screws use some of the diameter normally used for the screws. I do not know how to determine what screws will work or where to obtain them.

Anyone already solved this problem, or thoughts?

Thanks for the help.

[elbereth]

Hi, I am a new member but not a new shooter. I purchased an 856 TORO partially due to the helpful information in this thread.

I chose a Riton MPRD 2 based on the mount compatibility, however, the included screws do not fit the mount. The vertical cylinders of the mount that receive the screws take up a portion of the hole diamerter, so the included screws are too wide for the recieving threads.

Has anyone already solved this problem, or can offer any help?

Thanks,

[elbereth]

Hi, I am a new member but not a new shooter. I purchased an 856 TORO partially due to the helpful information in this thread.

I chose a Riton MPRD 2 based on the mount compatibility, however, the included screws do not fit the mount. The vertical cylinders of the mount that receive the screws take up a portion of the hole diamerter, so the included screws are too wide for the recieving threads.

Has anyone already solved this problem, or can offer any help?

Thanks,

[PNWTO]

...or can offer any help?

Have you contacted Taurus/Riton for any guidance?

jetfire

[elbereth]

Have you contacted Taurus/Riton for any guidance?

jetfire

Yes, both.
The person at Riton did not know.

Taurus customer service was very frustrating. The agent would ask one question, put me on hold, then repeat. She disconnected me after 30 minutes, and I havent called back.

Interestingly, in a Revolver Guy article, they mentioned that Taurus had the same optic mounted at this year's shot show. Lucky Gunner also mentioned that the Glock MOS cover plate screws worked for him.

This is what I have tried so far without success (and waiting for my first post to be approved by moderators):
1. Factory Riton Screws - M4 - too large in diameter

2. M3x0.5x16 - from Home Depot - appears that this is the right diameter and thread pitch, but obviously too long.

3. M3x0.5X8 Pan Phillips Machine Screw. Appears to be the right size, but doesn't completely tighten, probably due to the head.

I have M3x0.5x8 socket head on order. Neither Home Depot or Lowe's had these in stock

I was hoping jetfire would have some helpful info.

EDIT- The m3x0.5x8 screws arrived and I can screw them all the way down, however the optic is still loose.

[jetfire]

Yes, both.
The person at Riton did not know.

Taurus customer service was very frustrating. The agent would ask one question, put me on hold, then repeat. She disconnected me after 30 minutes, and I havent called back.

Interestingly, in a Revolver Guy article, they mentioned that Taurus had the same optic mounted at this year's shot show. Lucky Gunner also mentioned that the Glock MOS cover plate screws worked for him.

This is what I have tried so far without success (and waiting for my first post to be approved by moderators):
1. Factory Riton Screws - M4 - too large in diameter

2. M3x0.5x16 - from Home Depot - appears that this is the right diameter and thread pitch, but obviously too long.

3. M3x0.5X8 Pan Phillips Machine Screw. Appears to be the right size, but doesn't completely tighten, probably due to the head.

I have M3x0.5x8 socket head on order. Neither Home Depot or Lowe's had these in stock

I was hoping jetfire would have some helpful info.

EDIT- The m3x0.5x8 screws arrived and I can screw them all the way down, however the optic is still loose.

Your TORO should have had a small baggie with four screws in it, those baggies hold our in-house optics mount screws.

If they were mistakenly tossed with the box you can get a replacement at https://shoptaurus.com/new-items/taurus-toro-revolver-optic-screw-set

[elbereth]

There was no baggie of screws with the pistol, is there a way to get customer service to send me a set without going through the long hold? FYI the customer service agent that I talked to did not even offer that I should have had a bag of screws. Appreciate your help!

[lee n. field]

There was no baggie of screws with the pistol, is there a way to get customer service to send me a set without going through the long hold? FYI the customer service agent that I talked to did not even offer that I should have had a bag of screws. Appreciate your help!

They hide/stash some stuff under the cardboard divider thing in the box. A "bull head" grip, if yours didn't come with one mounted, and an extra sight blade. Check there for your screw baggie.

The screw set is seven bucks. My personal inclination would be to just order a set.

[elbereth]

They hide/stash some stuff under the cardboard divider thing in the box. A "bull head" grip, if yours didn't come with one mounted, and an extra sight blade. Check there for your screw baggie.

The screw set is seven bucks. My personal inclination would be to just order a set.

That list of items is helpful - I am also missing the sight blade. I had checked in those areas and nothing was there.

[revchuck38]

That list of items is helpful - I am also missing the sight blade. I had checked in those areas and nothing was there.

I’d check with the store you bought it from. Some places pull the extra magazines from boxes so they can sell them and tell the customer that the gun only comes with one. This place might have done the same thing with the parts in the box.

[elbereth]

I’d check with the store you bought it from. Some places pull the extra magazines from boxes so they can sell them and tell the customer that the gun only comes with one. This place might have done the same thing with the parts in the box.

I have already done that as well. Appears that either Taurus did not include, or someone at the distributor removed it. Thanks,

[lee n. field]

I have already done that as well. Appears that either Taurus did not include, or someone at the distributor removed it. Thanks,

Probably an error when the boxes were packed. I can't see any of that stuff being worth anybody filching it out of a box. FWIW, the 856 I bought in late April or early May (my second) was missing some of the bits I mentioned as being stashed under the cardboard..

Just order it. It's just not worth your time and effort to pester (anybody's) customer service so that they can "make it right" over a readily available $6 part. Standard Internetz disclaimers apply: IMHO&YMMV.

[lee n. field]

I see JM Custom Kydex is now listing the 856 as one they make holsters for.

Got one on order.

[Lex Luthier]

I am quite looking forward to reading Tamara ‘s article on the 856 Toro.

[sharps54]

I see JM Custom Kydex is now listing the 856 as one they make holsters for.

Got one on order.

I haven't clicked on every option yet but all the ones I have checked so far list 856 3" na with red dot cut :(

edit to add
I'm doubting "na" is "NOW AVAILABLE!"

[lee n. field]

I haven't clicked on every option yet but all the ones I have checked so far list 856 3" na with red dot cut :(

edit to add
I'm doubting "na" is "NOW AVAILABLE!"

Dark Star Gear Apollo is available from Taurus' webstore (but is not on DSG's page), and looks like it wouldn't be difficult to modify (https://youtu.be/jaHhcBSSXkA) to accept an optic equipped 856.

[sharps54]

Dark Star Gear Apollo is available from Taurus' webstore (but is not on DSG's page), and looks like it wouldn't be difficult to modify (https://youtu.be/jaHhcBSSXkA) to accept an optic equipped 856.

I’ll wait for the proper product instead of cutting on a holster. I understand these aren’t a high priority because they aren’t going to sell very many and I don’t mind the delay.

[Jamie]

I am quite looking forward to reading Tamara ‘s article on the 856 Toro.

Are you talking about "The Red Eye of the Bull" in the July '23 issue of Shooting Illustrated?

Good article imho. Well written and great photos.

I plan on picking up one of these, but I'm waiting to make sure the seemingly minor bugs get worked out. Well that and the fact I haven't actually seen one yet at my local preferred shooting range and gun store. I really want to handle one before I lay out the cash. :)

One point Tamara mentioned that I hadn't picked up on was that Taurus put a shorter ejection rod on this build instead of including a longer ejection rod that would allow a more positive ejection of spent cases. Please forgive me if I am misinterpreting what's written. This alone wouldn't deter me from purchasing one. But a longer ejection rod, if feasible, but be nice.

I'm looking forward to further writings from Tamara on this revolver.

[onehalfmvsquared]

I'm looking hard at one of these and need help deciding between the stainless or blued. Is it true that the "blued" model is just the stainless with a Nitride finish?

[jetfire]

I'm looking hard at one of these and need help deciding between the stainless or blued. Is it true that the "blued" model is just the stainless with a Nitride finish?

It's not really blue, it's definitely a nitride finish. I'd go with that one personally because I think it looks cooler.

[onehalfmvsquared]

thanks Jetfire, I like the dark one too, but is it stainless underneath the nitride? I'm tempted to do some minor garage gunsmithing and would like it to be stainless underneath

[Lester Polfus]

thanks Jetfire, I like the dark one too, but is it stainless underneath the nitride? I'm tempted to do some minor garage gunsmithing and would like it to be stainless underneath

The Taurus Website (https://www.taurususa.com/revolvers/small-frame-revolvers/taurus-856/taurus-defender-856-toro-38-special-matte-black-3-in)says the gun is stainless, but it also says the gun comes with one magazine.

[luckyman]

I picked up one last week.

First double action anything I’ve ever mounted an rds to. Man just dry firing this thing make me grin. [emoji16]. I have to think this is going to make me a better shooter.

[nalesq]

Is there a recommended shim to use in the event of running out of elevation with a Holosun optic? And if I use a shim, do I need different screws? Or is there an updated list of optics that probably won’t run out of elevation?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[jetfire]

Is there a recommended shim to use in the event of running out of elevation with a Holosun optic? And if I use a shim, do I need different screws? Or is there an updated list of optics that probably won’t run out of elevation?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

The screws from the factory will work with this shim: https://www.amazon.com/Ade-Advanced-Optics-Delrin-Enterprises/dp/B07Y4F6YFT

[nalesq]

I did run out of elevation on the Holosun 407K I got for this thing (POI was about 6 inches too high from POA even at just 10 yards, and I could not crank the adjustment screw to make the POI go any lower), so I ordered the shim mentioned above by Mr Jetfire. The shim ultimately worked great, although I did have to do a little filing to make it fit on the mounting plate, because the holes in the shim meant to accommodate the forward “pillars” of the mounting plate that normally go into the matching holes in the bottom of the optic did not line up just so.

Also note, for anyone who finds themselves with the same elevation problem I had, the shim should be mounted so that the thicker part of the shim is facing the muzzle.

Once set up and properly zeroed, it was a lot of fun to shoot!

[PNWTO]

Just bumping this to see if anyone else that follows jetfire on social media is also getting the strong hint that we’ll see a .327-flavored 856 TORO during SHOT?

[jeep45238]

Just bumping this to see if anyone else that follows jetfire on social media is also getting the strong hint that we’ll see a .327-flavored 856 TORO during SHOT?

I'd really like to see that setup on a .22LR, personally.

[Lon]

Anyone that qualifies for an account over on Expertvoice.com (LE/gov/industry) that wants one of these or the 605 Toro should really head over there and check them out. REALLY good price.

[PNWTO]

Anyone that qualifies for an account over on Expertvoice.com (LE/gov/industry) that wants one of these or the 605 Toro should really head over there and check them out. REALLY good price.

Yeah, I was really impressed with the ExpertVoice pricing. Now I just need Caleb to get Rossi on there.

[jetfire]

Just bumping this to see if anyone else that follows jetfire on social media is also getting the strong hint that we’ll see a .327-flavored 856 TORO during SHOT?

;-)

Re: Rossi on Expert Voice - we're building that project right now. And also Heritage is going to see some expanded, centerfire product offerings as well

[TicTacticalTimmy]

I've been enjoying my 856 Toro. The trigger was pretty bad at first, but after 200+ rounds and 500-1000 dryfires it is quite a bit better. It is by far the heaviest DA trigger in my collection, but it is reasonably smooth with just a sliiiight hitch in the middle. I find I can make pretty accurate hits but my trigger stroking speed is quite a bit slower than my more refined handguns.

I first sighted it in with the J point 1 degree shim from Midwayusa, but it turns out my 407K had enough adjustment to not need the shim. Zeroed at 25M with bulk Speer Lawman, I got a 4" 5 shot group with 4 shots in about 2". That is shooting proned out with my wrist on a sandbag on top of an ammo can, not a great setup, and I have little doubt the gun is mechanically capable of putting all its shots in a 2" group at 25M.

One thing I found is that removing the shim made a HUGE difference in my ability to acquire the dot. I'm not sure if it was the slight angle or the extra .14", but with the shim on I had a really hard time picking up the red dot on the draw. With the shim off it is dramatically better, but still not as consistent as with any of my semi-autos. This experience has killed my interest in putting red dots on other revolvers, as I believe everything else on the market mounts significantly higher than the 856. Would so love to see a company design a revolver for a red dot from the ground up to get it nice and low!

What are you guys running for holsters? I am looking for something for traditional 3-ish IWB carry. The Phlster and Harry's options look good except they are geared towards AIWB and I don't need all the extra engineering that goes into an AIWB holster for how I plan to carry this. Taurus has a Comp Tac IWB holster on their website but I have no idea on the quality level.

[PNWTO]

What are you guys running for holsters? I am looking for something for traditional 3-ish IWB carry. The Phlster and Harry's options look good except they are geared towards AIWB and I don't need all the extra engineering that goes into an AIWB holster for how I plan to carry this. Taurus has a Comp Tac IWB holster on their website but I have no idea on the quality level.

I’m firmly on the City Special train but have been debating the new Galco IWB just to have some variety.

https://www.galcogunleather.com/hawkeye-iwb-holster_8_1208_1612.html

[TicTacticalTimmy]

I’m firmly on the City Special train but have been debating the new Galco IWB just to have some variety.

https://www.galcogunleather.com/hawkeye-iwb-holster_8_1208_1612.html

That Galco looks pretty nice but I dont know if I can bring myself to spend more than I've ever spent on a holster on the cheapest carry gun in my arsenal!

Have you ever tried the city special in traditional IWB? If so how does it do?

jetfire any experience with the Comp Tac holster Taurus sells, or any other reccs for a traditional IWB holster for the Toro?

And as long as im pinging you, any updates on TK turning down their firing pin diameter to be compatible with the 856?

[PNWTO]

Have you ever tried the city special in traditional IWB? If so how does it do?



Pretty freaking awful for my build and where I wear my pants. If someone could adjust it to a very forward rake and keep the cylinder high, it may work for some.

[sharps54]

Disregard

[S Jenks]

jetfire any experience with the Comp Tac holster Taurus sells, or any other reccs for a traditional IWB holster for the Toro?

I’m not Caleb but “it works” as a lower-cost OWB paddle holster. I wasn’t a fan of it in IWB mode as the ride height/belt/dot weren’t ideal for me. It’s the only IWB holster I’ve tried for the TORO so I don’t know if it’s just the nature of the optic/revolver beast. And I’ve been completely spoiled by JMCK’s awesomeness.

I must say, the 856 Taurus TORO (my first Taurus) has worked perfectly out of the box. I’ve added a Wolff reduced power hammer spring, the older style Taurus rubber grip and a shim for the Holosun 407.

If anyone has recommendations for a larger grip (wider, not necessarily taller) I’d be all ears.

https://shoptaurus.com/shop-by-model/taurus-branded-comp-tac-dch-holster-small-frame-toro

[lee n. field]

I’m not Caleb but “it works” as a lower-cost OWB paddle holster. I wasn’t a fan of it in IWB mode as the ride height/belt/dot weren’t ideal for me. It’s the only IWB holster I’ve tried for the TORO so I don’t know if it’s just the nature of the optic/revolver beast. And I’ve been completely spoiled by JMCK’s awesomeness.

I must say, the 856 Taurus TORO (my first Taurus) has worked perfectly out of the box. I’ve added a Wolff reduced power hammer spring, the older style Taurus rubber grip and a shim for the Holosun 407.

If anyone has recommendations for a larger grip (wider, not necessarily taller) I’d be all ears.



Wider which way? Front to back, or side to side?

Pachmayr Compac is wide, both ways. No longer made but should be findable. I may still have mine somewhere.

[S Jenks]

Wider which way? Front to back, or side to side?

Pachmayr Compac is wide, both ways. No longer made but should be findable. I may still have mine somewhere.

Yes mainly side to side, the stock grips and my hand size weren’t a good fit. About perfect for me is the old two-piece Compac on a K-frame. I didn’t realize they once made Compacs for the Taurus, I’ll have to find a set.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

I’m not Caleb but “it works” as a lower-cost OWB paddle holster. I wasn’t a fan of it in IWB mode as the ride height/belt/dot weren’t ideal for me. It’s the only IWB holster I’ve tried for the TORO so I don’t know if it’s just the nature of the optic/revolver beast. And I’ve been completely spoiled by JMCK’s awesomeness.

I must say, the 856 Taurus TORO (my first Taurus) has worked perfectly out of the box. I’ve added a Wolff reduced power hammer spring, the older style Taurus rubber grip and a shim for the Holosun 407.

If anyone has recommendations for a larger grip (wider, not necessarily taller) I’d be all ears.

https://shoptaurus.com/shop-by-model/taurus-branded-comp-tac-dch-holster-small-frame-toro

Good to know, doesn't sounds like that holster will meet my needs.

There is this other holster from Comp-Tac which is not OWB capable, clearly meant for AIWB, but I have other AIWB holsters that work great for 3 o clock carry so thought it might be viable:

https://shoptaurus.com/new-items/taurus-branded-comp-tac-ev2-holster-small-frame-toro

There's also this one from UM Tactical. I have another product from them and don't like it, and the carbon fiber print is gross, but I'd still be open to buying it if I had some positive real world feedback:

https://shoptaurus.com/shop-by-model/um-tactical-qualifier-holster-iwb-taurus-small-frame-toro-ambi

The Wolff spring has been reliable for you? Have you shot any ammo with harder primers? My trigger is reasonably smooth, I think it would be a really solid shooter if the hammer spring were just a little lighter.

[jeep45238]

Yes mainly side to side, the stock grips and my hand size weren’t a good fit. About perfect for me is the old two-piece Compac on a K-frame. I didn’t realize they once made Compacs for the Taurus, I’ll have to find a set.

Pachy renegades - can always sand/file them down as needed.

https://a.co/d/71EC5b7