A300 Ultima Patrol

[LHS]

So, I can't say much on account of NDAs and stuff, but I cleared this with Beretta before posting. They're coming out with a new semi-auto tactical shotgun at SHOT, one that we along with several other end-users had some input upon. The sharp-eyed among you will notice a few differences from what you've seen before, and perhaps may garner some clues from what they asked me to hide as well as what they allowed me to show. The gun shot and ran well, and Logan (their PM for shotguns) won the end-of-class shoot-off with it, against some very skilled shooters. The fact that Beretta is sending their people to classes is a very encouraging sign in and of itself. Keep an eye on their social media around SHOT for some more info.

98409

[Ben_G]

I know I'm heavily biased here, but this one is 100% going to cost me money. I ran an earlier prototype at FPF's Shotgun Skills course, and that just cemented it. I don't buy every gun I've worked on, but this one I'll probably buy 2.

[JHC]

This one could be hiding behind the redacted box but that can't be right.

https://www.beretta.com/en-us/beretta-1301-tactical/

[testudo]

My guess is a more affordable tactical shotgun from Beretta.

I think it was in the TFB TV video with Beretta's GM this possibility was mentioned. Something like an A300 tactical.

[Pnut]

What a tease!!! That pic is like trying to watch scrambled porn as a kid in the 80’s. What is it?!?!? A pump gun? Any clues?

[Paul D]

My guess:

1) New top mount for optics

2) New handguard to allow light and sling mounts. That sling is attached to something, and it isn't the barrel clamp.

[Centerfire]

An inertia action sourced from Turkey?

[kwb377]

Front sight looks different than my 1301T G2.5...the protective wings are shaped slightly different and I don't see the nut that secures the sight post.

[Pnut]

My guess:

1) New top mount for optics

2) New handguard to allow light and sling mounts. That sling is attached to something, and it isn't the barrel clamp.

Based on how twisted up the sling is, I’d say some sort of QD attachment?

[Ben_G]

An inertia action sourced from Turkey?

We don't do that here. We leave inertia to our sister companies.

[Lester Polfus]

I think I would hold off purchasing a Mossberg 940.

[awp_101]

I think I would hold off purchasing a Mossberg 940.
98451

[LOKNLOD]

We don't do that here. We leave inertia to our sister companies.

So… institutional inertia? :cool:


I tease only - I really dig my Beretta actions and would be bummed if they did start to mimic the other side.

[Ben_G]

So… institutional inertia? :cool:


I tease only - I really dig my Beretta actions and would be bummed if they did start to mimic the other side.

Nope, that's what we/Holdings own Benelli and Franchi for. If its tube fed, a Beretta shotgun uses a gas operation.

[TCinVA]

I think I would hold off purchasing a Mossberg 940.

Fuckin' A you should.

So the first thing to know is that it isn't a 1301.

Ashton and I had the chance to run one of the prototypes in our rainy, cold Shotgun Skills class a few weeks ago.

I won't go into too many details about the gun, but I will say that it ran through class without a hiccup. I specifically tested the gun for function while short stocked and it ran. I even tried essentially limp-wristing the gun while short stocked (don't try this at home, kids) and it didn't choke.

Short stocking if done incompetently is hard on semi-automatic shotguns. It tends to make them gag pretty quickly...hence the test. I did as much wrong as I could without ending up falling on my ass in front of the class and it ran. Which is impressive in and of itself.

We put slugs, buck, and bird through the gun.

If you shot it back to back with a 1301 you might notice a little bit of a difference in the felt recoil. But even as familiar as I am with the 1301 I didn't really feel much of a noticeable difference.

So my upshot is:

- It ran reliably even when I did deliberately stupid shit with it
- It doesn't seem to give you any recoil penalty
- Ergonomics were very good

It should be a hit when it comes out.

I won't be selling my 1301s. But I will probably be adding this one to the stable and it will likely be added to my very short list of semi-auto shotguns I consider a good to go out of the box option.

Right now that list is:

- Beretta 1301
- Benelli M4
- Probably this thing

[Pnut]

So we know it’s a semiauto,and it’s not a new generation of the 1301! Promising…

I’m just glad that Beretta isn’t following the iPhone style marketing scam! Every couple of months, they announce the NEW phone, and everyone has to shell out more $ for the latest and greatest.

[Lester Polfus]

Interesting.

I have been thinking about a semi-auto shotgun for years, but have come to the conclusion that unless I'm willing to shuck out the coin for either a 1301 or a Benelli, I'm better off with my ratty-ass pump gun.

This may change the math.

[gato naranja]

Interesting.

I have been thinking about a semi-auto shotgun for years, but have come to the conclusion that unless I'm willing to shuck out the coin for either a 1301 or a Benelli, I'm better off with my ratty-ass pump gun.

This may change the math.

I can probably justify a 1301T right now (if I could even find one locally), but if this new mystery gauge costs more, the actuarial tables tell me I won't get my money's worth. Now if pampered, slightly used, Rem-built 870P's become worth more than they were last year, THAT might turn the math in the right direction for me.

[Navin Johnson]

Fuckin' A you should.

So the first thing to know is that it isn't a 1301.

Ashton and I had the chance to run one of the prototypes in our rainy, cold Shotgun Skills class a few weeks ago.

I won't go into too many details about the gun, but I will say that it ran through class without a hiccup. I specifically tested the gun for function while short stocked and it ran. I even tried essentially limp-wristing the gun while short stocked (don't try this at home, kids) and it didn't choke.

Short stocking if done incompetently is hard on semi-automatic shotguns. It tends to make them gag pretty quickly...hence the test. I did as much wrong as I could without ending up falling on my ass in front of the class and it ran. Which is impressive in and of itself.

We put slugs, buck, and bird through the gun.

If you shot it back to back with a 1301 you might notice a little bit of a difference in the felt recoil. But even as familiar as I am with the 1301 I didn't really feel much of a noticeable difference.

So my upshot is:

- It ran reliably even when I did deliberately stupid shit with it
- It doesn't seem to give you any recoil penalty
- Ergonomics were very good

It should be a hit when it comes out.

I won't be selling my 1301s. But I will probably be adding this one to the stable and it will likely be added to my very short list of semi-auto shotguns I consider a good to go out of the box option.

Right now that list is:

- Beretta 1301
- Benelli M4
- Probably this thing

Understanding you can only say so much. What is the price point of this new product?
Even ball Parking relative of the cost of a 1301

[Navin Johnson]

I can probably justify a 1301T right now (if I could even find one locally), but if this new mystery gauge costs more, the actuarial tables tell me I won't get my money's worth. Now if pampered, slightly used, Rem-built 870P's become worth more than they were last year, THAT might turn the math in the right direction for me.

The great state of Washington now that it has a 10 round magazine limit other than the previously owned magazines, which I’m sure that will be changed in the near future, along with a banning semi automatic rifles that look mean…..

1301’s last in the stores for about a day

Distributors in our area show no inventory

In this state, they have not come after shotguns yet like they did in Oregon

I want to pick up another 1301T, but will do so with the standard stock cause it looks “ friendlier”

[Borderland]

Interesting.

I have been thinking about a semi-auto shotgun for years, but have come to the conclusion that unless I'm willing to shuck out the coin for either a 1301 or a Benelli, I'm better off with my ratty-ass pump gun.

This may change the math.

It probably won't.

Beretta shills.

Ever noticed the number of Beretta shotguns used in the Olympics.? That's because Beretta wants those shooters to use their shotguns. They pay them to use them.

Your ratty ass pump gun probably works just fine for SD.

I know Beretta. I used to shoot a 682 for money and a 426E for game. The quality is there if you want the best. If you need to shoot somebody a Mossberg or an 870 will do the job.

It's a lot like driving a Mercedes to a 9-5 job.

[L-2]

How will this new, unknown model#/named shotgun compare or fit into Beretta's line-up with the 1301?

-Will the 1301 be discontinued or not?
-will the new one significantly cost less or more?
-will the new shotgun have an actual "Made in the USA" marking and negate the potential U.S.A. 922R issues?

OTHER.
-How well is Beretta at customer service, parts, and availability? (I've heard mixed reviews, somewhat negative for its pistol line.)
-When is the release date (1/17/2023 is beginning of ShotShow'23) as to when the Youtube and other reviewers start posting?
-How well is Beretta meeting its consumer demand and supply-chain related issues?

I suppose most of us will be awaiting and seeing at a later time. I'd just like to know a bit more for personal budgetary issues as I'll be considering a replacement for my, vintage/discontinued/defunct/unsupported, Remington 11-87P.

I could have already bought into the Benelli M4 or Beretta 1301, but other expenditures have been getting prioritized in my life.

[TCinVA]

How will this new, unknown model#/named shotgun compare or fit into Beretta's line-up with the 1301?

-Will the 1301 be discontinued or not?


No. The 1301 will still be around.



-will the new one significantly cost less or more?


I would expect its cost to be less than the 1301.

[Centerfire]

No. The 1301 will still be around.



I would expect its cost to be less than the 1301.

Turketta?

[HCM]

So, I can't say much on account of NDAs and stuff, but I cleared this with Beretta before posting. They're coming out with a new semi-auto tactical shotgun at SHOT, one that we along with several other end-users had some input upon. The sharp-eyed among you will notice a few differences from what you've seen before, and perhaps may garner some clues from what they asked me to hide as well as what they allowed me to show. The gun shot and ran well, and Logan (their PM for shotguns) won the end-of-class shoot-off with it, against some very skilled shooters. The fact that Beretta is sending their people to classes is a very encouraging sign in and of itself. Keep an eye on their social media around SHOT for some more info.

98409

98496

[HCM]

No. The 1301 will still be around.



I would expect its cost to be less than the 1301.

And “in a movie I saw” it was compatible with 1301 aftermarket “stuff.”

[TCinVA]

Turketta?

Best I know, Beretta only makes shotguns in 2 countries: Italy, and the US.

[Ben_G]

Turketta?

Again, we own other companies for that stuff. I'm a Beretta USA guy out of Gallatin, not a BITA or Holdings person.

Also, good to know some of y'all think we can move upstream from the 1301....

Ps: Tim, thank you again for being cool about me running that gun in the class. You and Ashton put on a hell of a clinic!

[perlslacker]

Beretta shills.

Ever noticed the number of Beretta shotguns used in the Olympics.? That's because Beretta wants those shooters to use their shotguns. They pay them to use them.


The term "shill" implies an unethical business practice, like paying reviewers to give good reviews without disclosing a financial relationship. Is sponsoring shooters an unethical advertising practice?

Posting threads like this on pistol-forum is 100% guerilla marketing but it's working on me.

[The Rat]

If these hints are out in the wild now, does this mean we can expect an announcement at Shot Show?

[Borderland]

The term "shill" implies an unethical business practice, like paying reviewers to give good reviews without disclosing a financial relationship. Is sponsoring shooters an unethical advertising practice?

Posting threads like this on pistol-forum is 100% guerilla marketing but it's working on me.

Shill is probably the wrong term. Sponsor would fit better. My apologies if I offended anyone.

[HCM]

Shill is probably the wrong term. Sponsor would fit better. My apologies if I offended anyone.

Sponsor implies a paid, though ethical relationship.

The other common scenario could be turned “pride in origin” I.e. a company with took / incorporated significant input from an SME who is uncompensated but has pride in seeing their knowledge/ input recognized.

I ran a 1301 in this same class because I’ve found it the best option on the market at the moment.

[HCM]

Turketta?


Best I know, Beretta only makes shotguns in 2 countries: Italy, and the US.

This ^^.

[Ben_G]

If these hints are out in the wild now, does this mean we can expect an announcement at Shot Show?

Yes. We should have these on the trucks and shipping from the warehouse by the time or right before stuff is published at SHOT.

[MRW]

Interested to see what this is. Don't know if this can be answered but, are the controls going to be similar to the 1301? Getting familiar with a 1301 to be comfortable using it takes a little time if you're coming from a pump gun. I could see the benefit of the same or similar manual if arms between shotguns from the same manufacturer.

[LOKNLOD]

No. The 1301 will still be around.



I would expect its cost to be less than the 1301.



If the relationship works out something like this:

NewGun:1301::A300:A400

I think that’d be pretty sweet.

[TCinVA]

Again, we own other companies for that stuff. I'm a Beretta USA guy out of Gallatin, not a BITA or Holdings person.

Also, good to know some of y'all think we can move upstream from the 1301....

Ps: Tim, thank you again for being cool about me running that gun in the class. You and Ashton put on a hell of a clinic!

We were tickled to have you there.

Having people at gun companies who actually shoot and who are looking to develop products that actually meet the needs of people looking to protect themselves and their families is fantastic. Anytime you want to come to a class Ashton and I are doing, the door is open. We'd love to have you!

[NoLock]

Has beretta ever considered doing something other than ghost rings?

Those low profile xs dea sights or even the pistol sights on the nypd 590a1 highway guns.

[TCinVA]

Don't know if this can be answered but, are the controls going to be similar to the 1301?

I don't think I can answer that in any detail.

What I will say is that if you go to the store and you pick up a number of different models of Beretta shotguns or Benelli shotguns the controls on them tend to be standardized within the brand. When people ask what semi-auto shotgun they should buy for defense I always ask if they have a semi-auto shotgun they use for hunting or for breaking clay. If they do, I encourage buying a defensive shotgun that is similar so that reps at the clay field or hunting bird become reps they can count on should they need to defend their life.

I wouldn't choose a Benelli M4 over a Beretta 1301 and I generally wouldn't encourage it for most people, but if someone is using a Benelli shotgun in sporting clays the M4 is a natural fit because the controls are all in the same place.

People bring all sorts of shotguns to class and when I encounter one I haven't messed with before I usually have to take a few seconds to screw around with it and figure out where all the controls are. I didn't need a few seconds on this new thing.

[Ben_G]

Interested to see what this is. Don't know if this can be answered but, are the controls going to be similar to the 1301? Getting familiar with a 1301 to be comfortable using it takes a little time if you're coming from a pump gun. I could see the benefit of the same or similar manual if arms between shotguns from the same manufacturer.

Our manual of arms is very consistent. If you know how to run one Beretta Over/Under, you know how to run all of them. Same goes for semiautos.

[TCinVA]

Has beretta ever considered doing something other than ghost rings?

Those low profile xs dea sights or even the pistol sights on the nypd 590a1 highway guns.

I have the DEA sights on the latest 870P that I bought. Lovely gun...hate the sights.

It's really, really easy to get the front sight too high with that shallow notch V in the rear. I greatly prefer the typical 870 rifle style sights as I never have that problem with them. For defensive work I'm pretty agnostic on ghost rings vs. the typical 870 rifle style sights. They both work and I don't see a significant performance advantage of one vs. the other for up close work with buckshot or slugs at distance. YMMV.

[TCinVA]

The term "shill" implies an unethical business practice, like paying reviewers to give good reviews without disclosing a financial relationship. Is sponsoring shooters an unethical advertising practice?

Posting threads like this on pistol-forum is 100% guerilla marketing but it's working on me.

I didn't see that comment because I have that user on ignore.

For what I assume are obvious reasons given that ridiculous comment.

I have received exactly $0 from Beretta to use their shotguns. I bought my first 1301 at a discount, but not through Beretta. A buddy of mine worked at a sporting goods store where he got a bit of a discount, bought one, ran into some money problems and sold it to me. My second 1301 was a scratch and dent model which I didn't care about because I'm going to do a hell of a lot worse things to it than people who molest guns in stores.

I had a discount available on a single purchase with Beretta by virtue of certification as an armorer in their system, but I never exercised it and it has since expired.

I run a 1301 because it works. Beretta doesn't give me guns, give me gear, or buy me ammo. They don't pay me anything when one of my clients brings a gun that shits the bed and then runs a 1301 and goes out to buy one. I know for certain I've sold dozens of the guns just by letting people shoot mine.

I tell people to buy 1301's because they and the Benelli M4 are head and shoulders above every other semi-auto shotgun I've seen in my time taking and presenting shotgun training. I've seen literally hundreds of individual specimens of 1301 at this point with only a handful of issues evident. Of that handful, some were created by aftermarket assembled packages using the wrong parts in the gun. The others were shell stops that needed adjustment at home base which fixed them right up.

It is damn difficult to say that about any other semi-auto shotgun on the market.

At the very first Rangemaster Shotgun Instructor course some years ago, Lee Weems, a couple of others and myself lamented that if we were going to go grab a shotgun off the gunstore shelf to bet on for serious use at that moment it wouldn't be an 870 or a 590 due to the quality issues both companies were struggling with. We both agreed we'd probably grab a 1301T because it was likely the best shot at running right straight out of the box.

Pistol-Forum was founded by an individual who had worked in the industry himself for years and who maintained contacts within it. In fact, one of the primary benefits of spending time on PF back in the day was the ability to actually talk to people inside various companies and get good information and make good suggestions. A lot of those conversations bore fruit in improving product offerings from various manufacturers. This is a mutually beneficial relationship because the companies get feedback from people who actually fucking shoot, and people who actually shoot can get some insight into product development. In fact, there are several products I could name that had at least a part of their genesis right here in discussions that took place on PF.

"Shilling" is a pretty serious accusation to level on PF.

This is the point where I'm going to put on my mod hat and lay down some law:

https://pistol-forum.com/misc.php?do=showrules



III. A note about "astroturfing"

We require disclosure of industry ties/links on this forum as a way of helping our membership determine the validity of advice and opinions that are shared on the forum. If we find that someone who is giving rave reviews of a product or service has an interest in that product/service that they have not disclosed, we will immediately ban them. If we find that someone has signed up for the forum solely to push their product/service in discussions, we will immediately ban them. If we find that someone has created multiple accounts, one to advertise a product/service and the other shell accounts to generate rave reviews for the product while appearing to be customers, we will immediately ban them. To be perfectly clear: We despise astroturfing and will mercilessly crush it on this forum.


I know a fair bit about the rules on PF because I'm literally the person who wrote the code of conduct as you see it on the site.

If you are going to throw around accusations about "shilling" publicly, you had better be able to produce some damned compelling evidence to that effect. If you cannot, kindly shut the fuck up.

We tolerate a lot in discussions on this site, but lobbing grenades at people's integrity based solely on one's own warped perceptions isn't acceptable. Especially not here when a representative from the company in question properly identifies himself and nobody else involved in the discussion makes a dime off of anything Beretta sells.

@Borderland (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=17488), you have a habit of saying silly things but this isn't silly. It's slanderous.

You don't get to insult people like that consequence free.

And for the rest of us, let's proceed with the discussion without any more notice of the aforementioned nonsense. Problem solved, problem staying solved.

[BWT]

What is extremely compelling to me is the price point.

I’ve watched the semi auto shotguns over the fence over the years. But a modern LTT 1301 or well laid out M4, etc. have just made it past my interest threshold. I call it “cost to cool” factor - the cost to cool factor on this has been too high for me historically, but if this is a factory out of the box product improved shotgun under $1,000?

That’s pretty exciting for all parties.

[perlslacker]

Since Vang Comp is doing work on 1301 barrels these days I have high hopes that they'll do this one too.

[Crow Hunter]

That figures.:o

I just got in a 1301T a week ago and I thought really hard about waiting until after SHOT to see if anything new was coming out. I just advised a buddy to wait to spend his Christmas bonus until after SHOT. I should have taken my own advice. :)

My bet is that it is a Gallatin made A300 (non-rotating bolt) patterned gun that has a factory installed accessory attachable fore end.

It would nicely fill the price point between the lower cost pump action HD guns and the A400 based 1301 guns in their lineup without cannibalizing the 1301 business too much.

[GearFondler]

All I'm curious about is if this new model is going to make those of us who already have a 1301T feel jealous?
I've dumped a fair bit of change into my 1301T and really don't want to fight another craving.
If this a more economical version I'm perfectly happy with that and it makes a lot of sense.

[LHS]

Sponsor implies a paid, though ethical relationship.

The other common scenario could be turned “pride in origin” I.e. a company with took / incorporated significant input from an SME who is uncompensated but has pride in seeing their knowledge/ input recognized.

I ran a 1301 in this same class because I’ve found it the best option on the market at the moment.

That latter scenario is the case here. Beretta has never paid me a dime (other than the full-price tuition for their employee to come to the class, just like the rest of the students there who paid to come learn) nor given me any guns/ammo, but they did ask for our input on aspects of this shotgun during its development, and I am rather happy to see that they listened and incorporated that input into the final product. I run Beretta pistols because they are the best solution to my specific needs and preferences. I like Beretta 1301s because they're reliable and work. I'm hoping the new gun follows that trend as well, and limited sample size of 1 in this class seemed to do that. Take that for what it's worth. Hell, I just thought y'all might want to see as much of the new cool shit as I could legally show. If that makes me a shill, then I suck at it, because shills are supposed to get paid.

[TCinVA]

All I'm curious about is if this new model is going to make those of us who already have a 1301T feel jealous?
I've dumped a fair bit of change into my 1301T and really don't want to fight another craving.
If this a more economical version I'm perfectly happy with that and it makes a lot of sense.

It's unlikely to make you throw down your 1301T and put on sackcloth and ashes. (I almost never get to use Bible jokes!)

But if maybe you wanted second tactical shotgun...

(Bible joke AND LOTR reference.

[GearFondler]

It's unlikely to make you throw down your 1301T and put on sackcloth and ashes. (I almost never get to use Bible jokes!)

But if maybe you wanted second tactical shotgun...

(Bible joke AND LOTR reference.As my 2nd is currently a Maverick 88 I just might be in the market, lol.

[TCinVA]

As my 2nd is currently a Maverick 88

https://media.giphy.com/media/fsyMR4HBUFk3lcQ2UE/giphy.gif

[Joe in PNG]

A buddy and I were discussing our return to the USA wantsies, and we're both got the watsies for a 1301... so if Beretta brings something out that's in that financial sweet spot between the 1301 and a Mossy 590, we'd be interested.

[AdioSS]

I’ve got a bunch of Beretta pistols, and have always wanted a Beretta semi-auto shotgun. Maybe this will finally be what it takes for me to get one?

[Ben_G]

All I'm curious about is if this new model is going to make those of us who already have a 1301T feel jealous?
I've dumped a fair bit of change into my 1301T and really don't want to fight another craving.
If this a more economical version I'm perfectly happy with that and it makes a lot of sense.

I think you'll be a-okay. I have a gen 1 1301T that I've done some work to, and that's not going anywhere; just gonna make some room for the new ones too. The really fun thing will be this is one of 3 or 4 neat product launches we have planned around SHOT.

[gato naranja]

I think you'll be a-okay. I have a gen 1 1301T that I've done some work to, and that's not going anywhere; just gonna make some room for the new ones too. The really fun thing will be this is one of 3 or 4 neat product launches we have planned around SHOT.

I can dream that one of them is a carbine-length PMX or an upgraded CX4 that kicks the ever-lovin' glutes of the AR-based 9mm's and the Ruger PC's.

[perlslacker]

The really fun thing will be this is one of 3 or 4 neat product launches we have planned around SHOT.

Narrator: And with that one offhand comment, Ben_G sent the denizens of pistol-forum dot com into an absolute frenzy.

[CarloMNL]

It's unlikely to make you throw down your 1301T and put on sackcloth and ashes. (I almost never get to use Bible jokes!)

But if maybe you wanted second tactical shotgun...

(Bible joke AND LOTR reference.

And for someone coming from pumps who wanted their first semi-auto, I’m guessing this thing wouldn’t be a bad choice?

[HCM]

And for someone coming from pumps who wanted their first semi-auto, I’m guessing this thing wouldn’t be a bad choice?

No, it would not.

Just be prepared to put in the work to learn new manual of arms / manipulations. Including working around an optic, and you will want an optic to maximize the potential of the semi.

[Ben_G]

How will this new, unknown model#/named shotgun compare or fit into Beretta's line-up with the 1301?

-Will the 1301 be discontinued or not?
-will the new one significantly cost less or more?
-will the new shotgun have an actual "Made in the USA" marking and negate the potential U.S.A. 922R issues?

OTHER.
-How well is Beretta at customer service, parts, and availability? (I've heard mixed reviews, somewhat negative for its pistol line.)
-When is the release date (1/17/2023 is beginning of ShotShow'23) as to when the Youtube and other reviewers start posting?
-How well is Beretta meeting its consumer demand and supply-chain related issues?

I suppose most of us will be awaiting and seeing at a later time. I'd just like to know a bit more for personal budgetary issues as I'll be considering a replacement for my, vintage/discontinued/defunct/unsupported, Remington 11-87P.

I could have already bought into the Benelli M4 or Beretta 1301, but other expenditures have been getting prioritized in my life.


I realized I missed this one. I wont be able to answer everything just yet, but:

- The 1301 is most certainly NOT going to be discontinued. Not even a little bit. In fact, I've got separate stuff I'm working on for that platform as well.
- I don't think I can really comment specifics on price, but I a lot of folks here have gotten it right, and we know what line in the market is wide open.
- This gun will be marked "Beretta USA Corp., Gallatin TN, Made in the USA"

For the other; we had a bit of a stumble during COVID, and CS went under new management. They've rebuilt a lot, and are continuing to improve systems and expand; I'm not going to say we're perfect there, but its an area we're investing in to improve on continuously. We are stocking spare parts on this gun with CS pre-launch just in case. Release date for this gun is in January; can't say specific days because that's not really my department and I don't know what they have planned there or what the social landscape will look like.

As to meeting demand and supply chain, I can't really share our position, but anyone in manufacturing can tell you the world isn't quite back to 100% pre-vid stability, and anyone in the industry can tell you things are in a fairly unique position right now (at least it looks that way with the data I have access to).

[rob_s]

Our manual of arms is very consistent. If you know how to run one Beretta Over/Under, you know how to run all of them. Same goes for semiautos.

that fact is the one possible crack in the armor to bringing a 1301 (or the new mystery gun) home as my wife is very happy with her "legacy model" a300 Outlander synthetic for sporting clays.

ETA:
I'm interested in this new offering. I'm hopeful that it'll be completely "turn key" as at this age and after a couple of decades of fiddle-fart with cars and bikes and guns and tools... I'm all about turn key these days.

[TCinVA]

And for someone coming from pumps who wanted their first semi-auto, I’m guessing this thing wouldn’t be a bad choice?

If they work as well as the one I handled, no. It'd be a pretty solid choice for a semi-auto shotgun if you didn't want to buy the 1301.

As I said, I'm not giving up my 1301's anytime soon because they're my favorite semi-auto shotgun. The reliability and adaptability of the gun to defensive use thanks to innovations from Aridus is unmatched.

The new gun won't change any of that about the 1301. But based on what I handled it will give folks a gun that runs well with an extremely wide range of ammunition that comes out of the box already well suited to defensive application at a price that's going to be very attractive when compared to buying a 1301T and modifying it, especially as it seems to have a number of thoughtful touches on the gun from the factory that reduce the need/desire for mods. And given supply chain and energy issues plaguing most of the world right now, it will likely be more readily available to boot.

It's certainly something I'm likely to end up buying so I can run it in classes as a teaching and loaner gun and give it the full shakedown in the hands of experienced and inexperienced people alike. I'm not anticipating any problems doing that.

My hope here is that Beretta is seeing a surge in the desire for good defensive-oriented shotguns that my gut tells me is happening in the world and they're moving to capitalize on that.

The defensive gauge is running in a renaissance now, driven not in small part I think by more people pushing intelligent training and intelligent discussions about its virtues in the hands of people who need to protect themselves. The fact that a company like Beretta is putting in the effort to bring another defensive scattergun option to the market indicates employees within the company who are seeing opportunity and executives who are seeing the business case for investing the huge pile of money it takes to develop things like furniture that go on the gun.

[Ben_G]

that fact is the one possible crack in the armor to bringing a 1301 (or the new mystery gun) home as my wife is very happy with her "legacy model" a300 Outlander synthetic for sporting clays.

ETA:
I'm interested in this new offering. I'm hopeful that it'll be completely "turn key" as at this age and after a couple of decades of fiddle-fart with cars and bikes and guns and tools... I'm all about turn key these days.

Out of curiosity, what would qualify as 'turn key'? Are we talking all you need is the standard sling, optic, side saddle, and light to bolt-on (with all the major interfaces already existing on the platform)? Or do you mean a truly full loaded package that's all that, bolted on and ready to go (just add ammo)?

[Erick Gelhaus]

So, I can't say much on account of NDAs and stuff, but I cleared this with Beretta before posting.

Guess I'll need to hit the Beretta booth at SHOT. Great, another appointment. Thanks for the heads up.

:)

[Ben_G]

Guess I'll need to hit the Beretta booth at SHOT. Great, another appointment. Thanks for the heads up.

:)

I mean, I'm biased, but yes. It'll be worth it (though we are in a new location this year, so check the map).

And this is one of several new items of interest that will be in the booth this year... I'd wager there will be at least 2 more threads on here for our new SHOT 2023 stuff. Not to be a total shill, but I sincerely think this is going to be a very good (/expensive) year if you're in the Beretta orbit.

[Erick Gelhaus]

I mean, I'm biased, but yes. It'll be worth it (though we are in a new location this year, so check the map).

And this is one of several new items of interest that will be in the booth this year... I'd wager there will be at least 2 more threads on here for our new SHOT 2023 stuff. Not to be a total shill, but I sincerely think this is going to be a very good (/expensive) year if you're in the Beretta orbit.

Is an appointment needed since I'm "media" or just drop in since I'm P-F?

[Ben_G]

Is an appointment needed since I'm "media" or just drop in since I'm P-F?

I mean, the booth is open access and all the big stuff will be on display with staff whos been trained on everything, so just drop in. If you're trying to talk to someone in particular, or its a business discussion that might be more 'appointment' territory. I'll be doing a mix of walking the floor and checking on the booth through the show.

[rob_s]

Out of curiosity, what would qualify as 'turn key'? Are we talking all you need is the standard sling, optic, side saddle, and light to bolt-on (with all the major interfaces already existing on the platform)? Or do you mean a truly full loaded package that's all that, bolted on and ready to go (just add ammo)?

3 of those four I likely wouldn’t add at all. Certainly not at first.

So for me it needs to be capable of taking a light right out of the box with sights that are usable, not just placeholders for an “inevitable” optic (as that’s not “inevitable”, but moreso “possible”).

Same goes for the sling. I wouldn’t probably install one but I’d like the option, preferably QD sockets.

Side saddle is an interesting one. I’ve wondered in the past why manufacturers aren’t addressing this out of the box, but for me it’d have to be easily removable, and not obtrusive when removed (e.g. I don’t want some snag hazard sticking off the gun).

So I suppose what I want is serviceable furniture (with LOP adjustments right out of the box, that go down to the short lengths preferred for fighting guns), the ability to add a light in a few spots, provisions for a sling, provisions for an optic (that doesn’t require drilling and tapping), and useable (preferably rifle, barrel mounted, for me personally) sights.

[Ben_G]

3 of those four I likely wouldn’t add at all. Certainly not at first.

So for me it needs to be capable of taking a light right out of the box with sights that are usable, not just placeholders for an “inevitable” optic (as that’s not “inevitable”, but moreso “possible”).

Same goes for the sling. I wouldn’t probably install one but I’d like the option, preferably QD sockets.

Side saddle is an interesting one. I’ve wondered in the past why manufacturers aren’t addressing this out of the box, but for me it’d have to be easily removable, and not obtrusive when removed (e.g. I don’t want some snag hazard sticking off the gun).

So I suppose what I want is serviceable furniture (with LOP adjustments right out of the box, that go down to the short lengths preferred for fighting guns), the ability to add a light in a few spots, provisions for a sling, provisions for an optic (that doesn’t require drilling and tapping), and useable (preferably rifle, barrel mounted, for me personally) sights.

Interesting. You know, some of that sounds like feedback we got in development from our SMEs...

[gato naranja]

3 of those four I likely wouldn’t add at all. Certainly not at first.

So for me it needs to be capable of taking a light right out of the box with sights that are usable, not just placeholders for an “inevitable” optic (as that’s not “inevitable”, but moreso “possible”).

Same goes for the sling. I wouldn’t probably install one but I’d like the option, preferably QD sockets.

Side saddle is an interesting one. I’ve wondered in the past why manufacturers aren’t addressing this out of the box, but for me it’d have to be easily removable, and not obtrusive when removed (e.g. I don’t want some snag hazard sticking off the gun).

So I suppose what I want is serviceable furniture (with LOP adjustments right out of the box, that go down to the short lengths preferred for fighting guns), the ability to add a light in a few spots, provisions for a sling, provisions for an optic (that doesn’t require drilling and tapping), and useable (preferably rifle, barrel mounted, for me personally) sights.

Yep. Provide the ability to add bells and whistles in different places, but let the end-user supply their own actual bells and whistles... because - like herding cats - getting the end users to agree on them is an exercise in futility.

I echo the thought of simple, relatively low front and rear "rifle" sights (blades replaceable, of course) right on the barrel, with the receiver d&t'd for optic mounts or ghost rings. Let the cottage industries develop those items.

Strandardized QD swivel studs or cups (or at least locations for easy installation of same by fools like me) to allow slinging right- left- or under-side.

Some provision to put a light at either 3, 6 or 9 o'clock. Make it pic rail or M-Lok if necessary.

The more modular, the better... stopping short of the point of stupidity.

Keep it smooth, though not necessarily lightweight.

[DamonL]

How do people feel about screw in chokes for a defensive shotgun?

[RevolverRob]

How do people feel about screw in chokes for a defensive shotgun?

I personally like them, because sometimes you can't find flite control.

The critical thing is to occasionally unscrew them and clean the threads to prevent carbon lock.

[Ben_G]

How do people feel about screw in chokes for a defensive shotgun?

My understanding is it shakes out to be 50/50 on personal preference. A lot of guys who I know who are against it come from the combat/duty mindset when they'll always prefer one less point of failure, a lot of the guys who are for chokes are all about optimizing performance for use case, and are in less of a regular rough and tumble mindset/environment.

As always, it comes down to actual use case, understanding the system and what constraints go with it, and configuring accordingly.

I've got no problem running chokes in my defensive shotgun as I'm not deploying out of a vehicle into combat (something that can shake a choke loose over time); in fact I'm probably going to break clays with it 100x more than running it tactically. If it's ever actually deployed, it'll be from a safe or lockbox.

[DamonL]

I know the Beretta 1301 gen 1 was a cylinder bore and gen 2 has screw in chokes. I think the FBI/DEA issued fixed Modified choked shotguns before the patrol rifle took over. It makes sense for institutional users to not want screw in chokes, one less thing to go wrong. I have screw in chokes for my shotguns, both home defense and sporting. I am an individual user and I like the ability to adjust my patterns. In the attributes of the ideal defensive shotgun, I was wondering how screw in chokes fit in.

I am also firmly in the semi-auto camp vs pump shotgun. I am only using buckshot and slugs for a defensive shotgun. I don’t have specialty ammo that LE uses.

[gato naranja]

A lot of guys who I know who are against it come from the combat/duty mindset when they'll always prefer one less point of failure, a lot of the guys who are for chokes are all about optimizing performance for use case, and are in less of a regular rough and tumble mindset/environment.

I can understand a reluctance by individuals or agencies. Many of these probably have no qualms about equally likely points of failure on other weapons, but as I like to point out, "humans are weird."

In my own case, I was one of the "naysayers" until I finally decided to obtain a barrel equipped with replaceable tubes and get more comfortable with the lay of the land. Once I got in the habit of double- or triple-checking the tubes after use/cleaning, I never had a problem with replaceable chokes aside from difficult removal after one far too overly-long session (which has not been, nor ever will be, repeated).

[MRW]

I never minded chokes on shotguns set up for defensive use. I've had hunting shotguns that have seen lots of rounds and haven't had issues. The ability to adjust chokes to available defensive loads is an advantage. In some of my barrels, I see better patterns from improved cylinder over cylinder chokes when shooting buckshot loads.

Chokes are just one more part of the gun to check, maintain, and clean.

[rob_s]

I can understand a reluctance by individuals or agencies. Many of these probably have no qualms about equally likely points of failure on other weapons, but as I like to point out, "humans are weird.".

Fwiw…

Cutting down on failure points isn’t a relative game. Just because an AR may have 20 doesn’t mean that 20 becomes my threshold for every gun. If I can reduce the number, or do the cost:benefit evaluation, on ebpvery gun then I’d prefer to.

That’s said, I’m not enough of an expert on fighting shotguns to know the pros and cons here, although that also kind of makes me lean towards not having them in these instances.

I think I’m more in the “test it so I’m familiar and govern accordingly” camp than the fiddle fart camp.

[Dave J]

How do people feel about screw in chokes for a defensive shotgun?

Used to be, I didn’t really want them, primarily from the “one more potential failure point” school of thought.

However, I’ve found great training value from running my defensive shotguns in 3-gun matches. About every other match, I run into some distant steel or one of those stupid spinners that my cylinder bore guns just won’t get done with birdshot…and it really isn’t that hard to check on a choke before putting the gun away, so I’ve somewhat changed my mind.

Agency use, I definitely wouldn’t want them, but it should be a total non-issue for a tuned in user.

(BTW, if anyone with a choked 1301T barrel would like to trade for an unchoked one, please let me know.)

[TCinVA]

How do people feel about screw in chokes for a defensive shotgun?

If I can have them without it causing me any problems, I'm fine with it.

But all my go-to shotguns have fixed bores, either cylinder, improved cylinder, or modified.

You can use choke to fine-tune some buckshot performance sometimes, but in general I find life is just easier if I keep a supply of FFC on hand and run that in my fixed choke guns.

If I were buying a 1301 today I'd do my best to get one with the screw in choke system...but I'd probably leave the choke that comes with the gun in it and never bother with other chokes just because the shooting I'm doing doesn't really require any of that tinkering.

[BobM]

I have an 1187 Special Purpose with a 21” rifle sighted REM-choke barrel and an Aimpoint. I’ve taken it to a Tac Con, two combat shotgun classes, and deer and turkey hunting. I screw in the full choke tube for turkey season and an IC tube other times. Fortunately the dot is on with Hornady Critical Duty 00, Federal TruBall, and Federal Grand Slam turkey loads.

[SeriousStudent]

This is going to be good. Ben_G - many thanks for your input.

I'm looking forward to snagging one of these shotguns, and examining the other products launched.

I carry a Beretta 92X Compact every day. I trust them to defend my family. I can't think of a higher compliment.

[nalesq]

If I could afford to shoot nothing but Federal Flite Control buck, I wouldn’t care about chokes on a defensive shotgun. However, that is not my reality. The ability to train more meaningfully with cheap birdshot is one of the main reasons I prefer the ability to use chokes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[L-2]

Please excuse me if I missed it, but what might the announcement or end-of-NDA date be for this allegedly forthcoming Beretta shotgun?

I'm already thinking, even when it'll be announced, finding the product to buy will be another issue with Beretta products seemingly already hard-to-find.
After this end-of-NDA date, I'll still want to view and read all the reviews before spending $ on a brand-new product vs. buying a 1301 or even the Mossberg 940 Pro Tactical (also hard to find).

[Ben_G]

Please excuse me if I missed it, but what might the announcement or end-of-NDA date be for this allegedly forthcoming Beretta shotgun?

I'm already thinking, even when it'll be announced, finding the product to buy will be another issue with Beretta products seemingly already hard-to-find.
After this end-of-NDA date, I'll still want to view and read all the reviews before spending $ on a brand-new product vs. buying a 1301 or even the Mossberg 940 Pro Tactical (also hard to find).

I'm not on the brand team so I don't have this exact answer, but I believe more information will start to come out next week and full NDA release right before SHOT. 3rd party review guns are getting out asap/ might have already shipped (I'm on vacation this week...), but I don't know if there will be external content shot, edited and ready before SHOT.

We're doing our best to minimize any availability issue since we never want to see that happen, but at the end of the day these things take time and metal to make. The supply chain issues aren't nearly what they were, but some of that improvement has come at the cost of 27-52 week lead times for some materials and components. We did our best with the crystal ball + the actual capacity of the factories, and I'm sure that's a similar story for anyone in manufacturing right now.

[Crow Hunter]

I'm not on the brand team so I don't have this exact answer, but I believe more information will start to come out next week and full NDA release right before SHOT. 3rd party review guns are getting out asap/ might have already shipped (I'm on vacation this week...), but I don't know if there will be external content shot, edited and ready before SHOT.

We're doing our best to minimize any availability issue since we never want to see that happen, but at the end of the day these things take time and metal to make. The supply chain issues aren't nearly what they were, but some of that improvement has come at the cost of 27-52 week lead times for some materials and components. We did our best with the crystal ball + the actual capacity of the factories, and I'm sure that's a similar story for anyone in manufacturing right now.

Oh the things you run out of/can't fund are mind boggling.

I pretty much have a "How the fuck did we run out of that?" weekly from an engineer on my team.

Usually followed by "No, you can't use that as an alternative and no we can't 3d print that many, but if we change this and this then we can use this as an alternative."

Sometimes followed by "How the fuck did you run out of the alternate too? Are you doing this on purpose?"

Then they escalate it to me thinking I can make that engineer "fix it, now!" 😅

Every single week for almost 2 years. 😣

[Lester Polfus]

Regarding chokes:

If the question is "Do you want adjustable chokes in your Closet Monster shotgun that sits in a lockbox 24/7 except for the four times a year it goes to the rock pit?" The answer is "yes."

If the question is "Do you want adjustable chokes in the shotguns that you are issuing to 100 people that will be riding around with them in police cars 24/7?" The answer is "absolutely not." Because even on a GOOD department where 97% of the people are squared away, Cletus will lose his choke tube, his brother Darryl will against policy replace his with something "better' from the Cheaper Than Dirt catalog, and his other brother Darryl will get his pregnant.

[DamonL]

I change chokes in my trap/skeet gun regularly. I only changed the choke once in my defensive shotgun. If I change ammo, I will probably see if I need to change the choke in my defensive shotgun. I think ammo is the factor for a defensive shotgun and chokes. If you can buy a case of flight control it doesn't matter. But availability is a problem. If you buy the buckshot that in you can find in the store (RIO, Remington, Federal, etc) it is useful to have choke tubes and adjust if needed.

[L-2]

Post 82,
Thanks for the info. Shot Show '23 is from 1/17/23 to 1/20/23.
I don't plan on buying any new shotguns whether the forthcoming Beretta, the present 1301, Mossberg 940 Pro Tactical, or even a Benelli M4, that early in the year anyway.

If I did need to buy a shotgun that early, it'd mean two of my four shotguns became lost/stolen/totally-broken.

(Three of my shotguns are Remington which could mean zero parts, no repair services by the present Remarms company, and I'd expect months-long lead times if I could find someone local to me for repair at all.)

My personal situation is mainly a want-to-buy and not a need-to-buy.

[Ben_G]

So we may or may not be trying to take over the tactical 12ga market this year... If any of you voted for the 1301 in the readers choice portion, thank you. It's communities like this putting platforms through the intellectual and practical wringer that hold us on the OEM side to improving our game.

PS- I hope this lays to rest any concern that the 1301 is going away/going to be forgotten.

[SamueL]

So we may or may not be trying to take over the tactical 12ga market this year... If any of you voted for the 1301 in the readers choice portion, thank you. It's communities like this putting platforms through the intellectual and practical wringer that hold us on the OEM side to improving our game.

PS- I hope this lays to rest any concern that the 1301 is going away/going to be forgotten.

Congrats Ben and the Beretta USA crew!

Having handled and shot the new forthcoming gauge, I am excited for what it is going to bring to table.

[Bernomad]

Congrats Ben and the Beretta USA crew!

Having handled and shot the new forthcoming gauge, I am excited for what it is going to bring to table.

I’m pretty excited to see what you’re all talking about! I love my 1301.

[Pnut]

8 more days till Shot Show! And HOPEFULLY more info on this mystery boom stick!!!

[Centerfire]

"US made" A300 based gun that takes 1301T furniture and has a significant percentage of non US or Italian made parts?

[Rick R]

So we may or may not be trying to take over the tactical 12ga market this year... If any of you voted for the 1301 in the readers choice portion, thank you. It's communities like this putting platforms through the intellectual and practical wringer that hold us on the OEM side to improving our game.

PS- I hope this lays to rest any concern that the 1301 is going away/going to be forgotten.

I’ve wondered why someone from Beretta apparently hasn’t sat down with someone from Magpul and asked for a Beretta version of their SGA shotgun stock? Apparently half the production of Magpul’s Remington stock ends up on a 1301 and most of us would pay an added $100 for one as OEM as opposed to piecing one together.

[Ben_G]

I’ve wondered why someone from Beretta apparently hasn’t sat down with someone from Magpul and asked for a Beretta version of their SGA shotgun stock? Apparently half the production of Magpul’s Remington stock ends up on a 1301 and most of us would pay an added $100 for one as OEM as opposed to piecing one together.

All I'll say is its a liiiitle more complicated than just sitting down with a guy and asking nicely and poof something appears a few months later. And that applies to a LOT of stuff haha. Especially when we're talking about a 500 year old company.

ps: the guys at Magpul are great

[e_stern]

I’ve wondered why someone from Beretta apparently hasn’t sat down with someone from Magpul and asked for a Beretta version of their SGA shotgun stock? Apparently half the production of Magpul’s Remington stock ends up on a 1301 and most of us would pay an added $100 for one as OEM as opposed to piecing one together.

That discussion has been had with Magpul annually for years.

It's a very complicated topic, and not nearly as straightforward as you'd expect, as Ben said.

[Centerfire]

That discussion has been had with Magpul annually for years.

It's a very complicated topic, and not nearly as straightforward as you'd expect, as Ben said.

I'm guessing Magpul wanted an up front order with guaranteed units greater than the annual production for the applicable models (for all years?). The 870 and 590 have like 50+ years of combined production which makes the business case for the molds an easier sell. Not to mention, the 870 and 590 furniture can be sold through aftermarket channels, not just a single OEM.

[e_stern]

I'm guessing Magpul wanted an up front order with guaranteed units greater than the annual production for the applicable models (for all years?). The 870 and 590 have like 50+ years of combined production which makes the business case for the molds an easier sell. Not to mention, the 870 and 590 furniture can be sold through aftermarket channels, not just a single OEM.

Nah, it's... a lot more complicated than that.

Nobody said no, it's just... a small potato in a big field kind of thing.

[Totem Polar]

I’m just going to poke in here for a sec, as a regular user of the forum, to thank the Beretta insider peeps for participating. We are lucky to have things straight from many good sources here, Beretta absolutely being one of those situations. Pure gold for the end user who knows what they’re reading. Thanks folks.

Carry on… let’s see what the impending announcement brings. I’m actually in the market for a good gauge before WA goes full ‘terd.

[Rick R]

All I'll say is its a liiiitle more complicated than just sitting down with a guy and asking nicely and poof something appears a few months later. And that applies to a LOT of stuff haha. Especially when we're talking about a 500 year old company.

ps: the guys at Magpul are great

As a retired LEO who’s agency pre-dated the State becoming a State I understand institutional inertia. But “Come on man!” Beretta put this stock on a DT11

99847

Surely the SGA isn’t that much of a stretch. 😆

I’ll go sit in my corner now.

Edited to add, Thanks to the industry guys, being online can have challenges and I appreciate seeing you guys input.

[e_stern]

As a retired LEO who’s agency pre-dated the State becoming a State I understand institutional inertia. But “Come on man!” Beretta put this stock on a DT11

99847

Surely the SGA isn’t that much of a stretch. 😆

I’ll go sit in my corner now.

Edited to add, Thanks to the industry guys, being online can have challenges and I appreciate seeing you guys input.

Because those TSK stocks are one offs and essentially done by elves in a toolroom (also major stupid IMHO compared to a standard wood stock). It's massively different to do a duty grade mass production stock such as the TSK.

[e_stern]

Because those TSK stocks are one offs and essentially done by elves in a toolroom (also major stupid IMHO compared to a standard wood stock). It's massively different to do a duty grade mass production stock such as the TSK.

Just re read what I typed... not sure that's English. That's what I get for typing on my phone...

Anyways, TSK=1 off toolroom type stock that can be custom fit.

SGA=mass production duty grade... requires a far more strict duty ready design, as well as a reliable and durable set of tooling that can hold tolerances versus a craftsman fitting everything. Massively different use case and development/production path.

Another thing to remember, the DT is a semi-custom gun with sales figures drastically lower than that of a 1301.

[awp_101]

I’m guessing the Elves Union is blocking the chance to have some of them move to a potential 1301 SGA production line?

[Rick R]

I’m guessing the Elves Union is blocking the chance to have some of them move to a potential 1301 SGA production line?

I think the point is, where the gnomes at Magpul make stocks for guns built by the dwarven folk in Ilion they can’t quite get the agreements, codicils and hand gestures together to cooperate with the Italian elves. It’s all good, the fairy folk at Aridus gotta make ends meet too.


I’m curious to see the new offering from Beretta.

[mmc45414]

Nah, it's... a lot more complicated than that.

Nobody said no, it's just... a small potato in a big field kind of thing.The trick is getting them to do it sooner than the Savage stock...

[Gerry Adams]

Although I'm excited for the reveal, I'm sad for Aridus as they've been at the forefront moving the 1301 into the mainstream, and now they're slowly getting squeezed from multiple angles. But I guess that just how it goes.

[oss117]

I know nothing of the details of this new shotgun. Hypothetically it sounds like it might be based on the A300 action vs. A400 like the 1301. So between the two, what real world advantages does the A400/1301 action have over the A300? Is it more reliable or does it recoil less? TIA

[rob_s]

I know nothing of the details of this new shotgun. Hypothetically it sounds like it might be based on the A300 action vs. A400 like the 1301. So between the two, what real world advantages does the A400/1301 action have over the A300? Is it more reliable or does it recoil less? TIA

I was thinking a similar theory. I think the a300 is us made? Maybe gets around some of the restrictions on import guns?

Pretty sure the a400/1301 has the springs forward while the a300 has the springs in the stock?

Which, btw, doesn’t bode well for Magpul being on board, not getting a truly short lop, if mystery gun is a300-based.

[RevolverRob]

I guess I'm getting impatient like a kid on December 23rd.

If we can let the cat out of the bag enough to know something new is coming Soon™️ then let's just rip the band aid off.

[Trigger]

So we may or may not be trying to take over the tactical 12ga market this year... If any of you voted for the 1301 in the readers choice portion, thank you. It's communities like this putting platforms through the intellectual and practical wringer that hold us on the OEM side to improving our game.

PS- I hope this lays to rest any concern that the 1301 is going away/going to be forgotten.

Are you teasing us with that factory looking picture with lots of aftermarket parts on a 1301T? If so, it’s working.

[Ben_G]

Although I'm excited for the reveal, I'm sad for Aridus as they've been at the forefront moving the 1301 into the mainstream, and now they're slowly getting squeezed from multiple angles. But I guess that just how it goes.

We're working with Adam on multiple points to make sure he can continue to make cool shit for the 1301 as well as the new platform.
A big part of my job is to assist and support ecosystem development on our platforms, and the organization is more invested in doing so now than it has before.

[Ben_G]

I know nothing of the details of this new shotgun. Hypothetically it sounds like it might be based on the A300 action vs. A400 like the 1301. So between the two, what real world advantages does the A400/1301 action have over the A300? Is it more reliable or does it recoil less? TIA

Well in that hypothetical comparison between the 2 actions, there's a few critical differences. in the hunting world of course you start out with the 3" vs 3.5" availability, but that hypothetically wouldn't matter here.

The A400/1301 platforms have:
- superior barrels (Italian made, lengthened forcing cones, back bored, etc, aka Steelium in Beretta-speak)
- the rotating bolt allows for reliable operation without needing to overgas the gun which is good for professional/ long term heavy use
- the recoil spring location under the handguard is easier to access for service and cleaning
- that recoil spring location frees up a lot of options for the stock on a 1301 while the A300's rear spring system is much more limiting for stock modifications.

The A300 platform traditionally offers:
- A domestic developed and manufactured product for less 922r headache, and made with a more Americanized understanding of the market and customer feature set desires
- Closer to mass-market pricing than specialist gear pricing of the rotating bolt platforms (European pricing models for firearms are completely different that the US market because there isn't the same kind of competition)
- Still a bombproof platform (the modern ones are still a continuation of the old 390/3901 guns). I know my local clays range has a few A300 rental beaters that have 60K+ rounds through them, some with minimal maintenance


I guess I'm getting impatient like a kid on December 23rd.

If we can let the cat out of the bag enough to know something new is coming Soon™️ then let's just rip the band aid off.

Nope.
A) I technically don't have approval to do this, let alone actually leak /release the gun.
B) I see nothing wrong with letting this marinate another 6 days. Deepens the flavor and all.


Are you teasing us with that factory looking picture with lots of aftermarket parts on a 1301T? If so, it’s working.

Not intentionally. That was just the image used in the release, and I don't know if we chose it or Ballistic. My guess is they just chose the coolest picture of the 1301T they could find, which happened to be an LTT'ed gun with full kit. I was just saying that we're taking the SA tac shotgun market very seriously, both with this gun, and the 1301.

[Centerfire]

Well whatever happens, I hope there's a factory handguard option that has pic or MLOK and sling options.

[Rack]

Are the A300 barrels made in Turkey? Any of the initial barrel production.

[TCinVA]

I guess I'm getting impatient like a kid on December 23rd.

If we can let the cat out of the bag enough to know something new is coming Soon™️ then let's just rip the band aid off.

I mean, I wasn't going to say anything until Matt started this thread.

[oss117]

Well in that hypothetical comparison between the 2 actions, there's a few critical differences. in the hunting world of course you start out with the 3" vs 3.5" availability, but that hypothetically wouldn't matter here.


Thank you for the thought out reply, Ben_G! I'm looking forward to seeing Beretta's intros at SHOT.

[Pnut]

;);)I’ve been scouring the internet and other forms for any info on this gun but found absolutely NOTHING!!! The only mention I could find has been on this site.

I’m gonna try some reverse psychology trick on those in the know and call BS!!! Hopefully they will react emotionally and leak more info ;)

[Ben_G]

;);)I’ve been scouring the internet and other forms for any info on this gun but found absolutely NOTHING!!! The only mention I could find has been on this site.

I’m gonna try some reverse psychology trick on those in the know and call BS!!! Hopefully they will react emotionally and leak more info ;)

lol. This forum is the only one that has inside info on this because the only 2 public outings of this gun have been in classes attended by Beretta personnel run by Symtac and FPF. Since high caliber folks like Tim and Matt are on this forum, it makes sense y'all hear the rumblings first. (All parties have been perfectly appropriate with what's been shared with the NDA, and that will no longer be in place about this gun come launch).

I will say I've seen a few dealer pages go live early without images (because they always jump the gun), but I know what keywords to search. That means it's live in our dealer portal, so if your LGS is a Beretta dealer, they might be able to answer some more questions.

[HCM]

Are the A300 barrels made in Turkey? Any of the initial barrel production.

Beretta makes shotguns in Italy and the USA.

Sorry but the “Turkey” thing has been already asked and answered twice in this thread and it’s tiresome.

Turkey makes licensed or off patent copies of lots of guns but, for example, no one in HK SP5 threads asks about HKs being made in Turkey.

[Ben_G]

Beretta makes shotguns in Italy and the USA.

Sorry but the “Turkey” thing has been already asked and answered twice in this thread and it’s tiresome.

Turkey makes licensed or off patent copies of lots of guns but, for example, no one in HK SP5 threads asks about HKs being made in Turkey.

That one was actually a fair question. With the stigma there please forgive me if my answer is a little over the top. As far as I know, since the A300 Outlander released in 2012 (and maybe longer, but that's before my time), the A300 barrel has been made for Beretta (to our design) by Stoeger (for both US and Italian made A300s). Stoeger is part of Beretta Holdings, and is a major shotgun barrel hub for the Group with massive $$$ and tech from the Italians to allow them to make barrels that meet our all our specs. Like Benelli gets some of their barrels from Beretta Italy, shotgun barrels are something that get vended from a couple inter-Holdings partners that support all the companies in the Beretta Holdings umbrella due to the cost, complexity, and expertise required to stand up a proper facility that turns out a product to our standards. It's the same story with magazines, wood furniture, chokes and some other bits. Beretta Holdings covers a LOT of ground, but all that vertical integration is global and sometimes across names folks might first associate as competitors rather than shared-ownership companies who also have B2B vendor relationships. Sorry if that got a bit corporate, but there's a lot of moving parts behind this curtain.

TLDR: yes, the barrels are made in Turkey, but by a Beretta Holdings company, making a Beretta USA design in their state-of-the-art Beretta Italy funded barrel factory (as they have for a loooonngggg time on this platform). The A300 is all about making a gun with the maximum quality of product and feature set for the price by leveraging Beretta's longstanding experience in the field. The rest of the gun is USA and Italy to the best of my knowledge.

[HCM]

That one was actually a fair question. With the stigma there please forgive me if my answer is a little over the top. As far as I know, since the A300 Outlander released in 2012 (and maybe longer, but that's before my time), the A300 barrel has been made for Beretta (to our design) by Stoeger (for both US and Italian made A300s). Stoeger is part of Beretta Holdings, and is a major shotgun barrel hub for the Group with massive $$$ and tech from the Italians to allow them to make barrels that meet our all our specs. Like Benelli gets some of their barrels from Beretta Italy, shotgun barrels are something that get vended from a couple inter-Holdings partners that support all the companies in the Beretta Holdings umbrella due to the cost, complexity, and expertise required to stand up a proper facility that turns out a product to our standards. It's the same story with magazines, wood furniture, chokes and some other bits. Beretta Holdings covers a LOT of ground, but all that vertical integration is global and sometimes across names folks might first associate as competitors rather than shared-ownership companies who also have B2B vendor relationships. Sorry if that got a bit corporate, but there's a lot of moving parts behind this curtain.

TLDR: yes, the barrels are made in Turkey, but by a Beretta Holdings company, making a Beretta USA design in their state-of-the-art Beretta Italy funded barrel factory (as they have for a loooonngggg time on this platform). The A300 is all about making a gun with the maximum quality of product and feature set for the price by leveraging Beretta's longstanding experience in the field. The rest of the gun is USA and Italy to the best of my knowledge.

I’m not surprised as many parts of some popular service pistols come from places like India, Israel, Brazil etc that’s before you get into the “American” semi custom 1911s by way of Korean forgings etc.

[Hambo]

That one was actually a fair question.

Thanks for a straight answer and full explanation. :D

[willie]

I bought a Stoeger inertia shotgun because I knew that Beretta plays a role in maintaining Stoeger quality. Stoeger has an excellent customer service reputation. Beretta has the coin to maintain quality across and within their holdings. I let my young mentee break in the Stoeger with with cheap buckshot, shit ammo, and good stuff too. There was one misfeed., and that was the 2nd round fired.

About Beretta's new tactical shotgun. I read the thread but don't understand the reason to introduce this new model unless it's designed to sell much cheaper than the 1301 which has become a gold standard.

[LittleLebowski]

I know I'm heavily biased here, but this one is 100% going to cost me money. I ran an earlier prototype at FPF's Shotgun Skills course, and that just cemented it. I don't buy every gun I've worked on, but this one I'll probably buy 2.

Thank you for hanging out here. Welcome to Site Supporter status :cool:

[e_stern]

There's a massive difference between Stoeger (run by Beretta Group and held to Beretta standards of quality) and the rest of the Turkshit out there. Not just in who owns them, but also in terms of barrel design, material quality and requirements, and the consistency of manufacture. You will NOT find a better barrel made in Turkey than those made at Stoeger, because they are made to Italian and US designs and standards. They are also proofed to the same level as all Beretta barrels, meaning that nothing can compare, even high quality US Made shotgun barrels aren't remotely close.

Stoeger does not equal the rest of Turkey when it comes to shotgun barrels.

[Default.mp3]

Assumption is that it's this: https://www.eurooptic.com/Beretta-A300-Ultima-Patrol-12ga-191-Bbl-Black-Synthetic-7-1-MC-IC-Semi-Auto-Shot.aspx

https://i.imgur.com/1134mS8.png

[Ben_G]

Assumption is that it's this: https://www.eurooptic.com/Beretta-A300-Ultima-Patrol-12ga-191-Bbl-Black-Synthetic-7-1-MC-IC-Semi-Auto-Shot.aspx

https://i.imgur.com/1134mS8.png

Well that looks familiar! Where did that image come from? Preeeeety sure that's one of my old renders, not a product photo.... Don't get me wrong, its accurate (apparently too accurate), but now I have to go chase down wherever this came from.

[Default.mp3]

Well that looks familiar! Where did that image come from? Preeeeety sure that's one of my old renders, not a product photo.... Don't get me wrong, its accurate (apparently too accurate), but now I have to go chase down wherever this came from.Yoinked it from a thread on M4C, no idea where the guy on M4C got it: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?239229-New-Beretta-Semi-Auto-Option-(A300-Ultima-Patrol)&p=3083741#post3083741

[Joe Mac]

That…is very well thought out!

[Tannhauser]

I know I'm heavily biased here, but this one is 100% going to cost me money. I ran an earlier prototype at FPF's Shotgun Skills course, and that just cemented it. I don't buy every gun I've worked on, but this one I'll probably buy 2.

They don’t give you a basket of free guns when a design goes into production?

That’s disappointing.

[Totem Polar]

Assumption is that it's this: https://www.eurooptic.com/Beretta-A300-Ultima-Patrol-12ga-191-Bbl-Black-Synthetic-7-1-MC-IC-Semi-Auto-Shot.aspx

https://i.imgur.com/1134mS8.png


I’m in. Assuming that such a beast existed, of course.

[TCinVA]

In the flesh you'd have to be really familiar with the 1301 to tell it wasn't a 1301 with a new forend.

[awp_101]

I’m in. Assuming that such a beast existed, of course.

And if it did, I'd be in my hypothetical bunk.

[Pnut]

If this gun does exists as pictured, I wonder if that forend will work on the 1301?

[MRW]

Price isn't too bad either.

[Lon]

If this gun does exists as pictured, I wonder if that forend will work on the 1301?

I’d buy one if it did.

[Centerfire]

If this gun does exists as pictured, I wonder if that forend will work on the 1301?

Ben_G

[RevolverRob]

I mean it's leaked out now. Which is why we probably shouldn't do these kinds of marketing things...no one makes it to Christmas Day anymore...

p/CnVd0mnujpA

A300 Ultima Patrol. So, this is basically going to be priced like the old 1301Tacs were. But now based on the A300.

So no more SGA stock mods since the A300 has recoil spring in the stock. Does the A300 use the Blink system?

I'm kind of whelmed by this overall. Not that I honestly expected to blown away...

Maybe I'm too curmudgeonly.

[167]

https://youtu.be/wdumpCV9MFw

[TCinVA]

No, the A300 doesn't use Blink. But the A300 system works extremely well.

Note that the new gun has MLOK rails built into the forend. 13" LOP stock (all there is for now but who knows what the future holds) and is essentially ready for a light, optic, and sling out of the box.

[Lester Polfus]

Price isn't too bad either.

The MSRP of the new Beretta is cheaper than the street price of the Mossberg 940 Pro Tactical.

[TCinVA]

The MSRP of the new Beretta is cheaper than the street price of the Mossberg 940 Pro Tactical.

...it's almost like this gun was specifically produced to give people considering a Mossberg a gun that actually works properly.

Or something.

[Caballoflaco]

Anyone else heaar rumors that the 1301 is going to see a price increase this year to go along along with the new a-300 based system?

[Ben_G]

If this gun does exists as pictured, I wonder if that forend will work on the 1301?

Excellent question. Not quite yet. A300 and 1301 receivers have different interface points for handguards. That back bit that's a slightly different color in the render will be important later ;)

[Ben_G]

Anyone else heaar rumors that the 1301 is going to see a price increase this year to go along along with the new a-300 based system?

That is something separate that was rolling down the hill anyway due to Italian materials and energy pricing going up. We saw it coming and wanted to have this ready so there was still a great solution at that price.

[MRW]

New 1301s are going for $1300 - $1400 in stores around me. If this performs similar to the 1301 at the advertised price point, it should be a good deal.

[Caballoflaco]

That is something separate that was rolling down the hill anyway due to Italian materials and energy pricing going up. We saw it coming and wanted to have this ready so there was still a great solution at that price.

It looks like y’all came up with a nice solution to those economic realities.

FWIW I’ve never heard any of the duck hunter or clays guys I know speak poorly of the A-300 system and those guys (especially duck hunters) probably mistreat their guns worse than most timmies.

[Lester Polfus]

...it's almost like this gun was specifically produced to give people considering a Mossberg a gun that actually works properly.

Or something.

Right? It's almost like it comes from a company that knows their market. Or something.

[Pnut]

Excellent question. Not quite yet. A300 and 1301 receivers have different interface points for handguards. That back bit that's a slightly different color in the render will be important later ;)

Or MAYBE Beretta will make that forend specifically for the 1301 hint… hint…. They could offer it on newer guns as the GEN 2.2+!!!!

[kwb377]

Or MAYBE Beretta will make that forend specifically for the 1301 hint… hint…. They could offer it on newer guns as the GEN 2.2+!!!!

Reading between the lines, sounds like they're going to make a handguard interface that'll allow the forend to work on the 1301.

[Centerfire]

Excellent question. Not quite yet. A300 and 1301 receivers have different interface points for handguards. That back bit that's a slightly different color in the render will be important later ;)

Please make it for the 1301 so I can get rid of the Zukov.

[idahojess]

Are the safeties reversible for left handers on this new hypothetical shotgun?

I think the A300's are reversible.

[Ben_G]

Are the safeties reversible for left handers on this new hypothetical shotgun?

I think the A300's are reversible.

I think we can just say 'upcoming' at this point. And yes, the A300 trigger pack has a reversible safety, just like the 1301 and A400.

[idahojess]

I think we can just say 'upcoming' at this point. And yes, the A300 trigger pack has a reversible safety, just like the 1301 and A400.

Thanks!

[LHS]

I have to say, I am especially happy with how the handguard turned out. That's one of the pieces I really pushed for, and Ben and the Beretta crew listened to my rantings and made something that I like more than the factory 1301 forend from a shooting standpoint, that also incorporates the functionality of the MLOK slots for mounting lights, etc (and a few other subtleties. Notice that flat upper edge? Looks pretty nice for affixing a tape switch, don't it?). The contours are great, with a groove that's just perfect for that index-finger-pointing grip I prefer, and the texturing is even grippier than the original 1301 forend.

If it runs as well as the example I saw in class last month (and based on the design lineage I have no reason to believe it won't), it's going to be a fantastic option, especially for the price point.

[DamonL]

I like that the barrel is long enough to squeeze in 7 rounds in the mag tube.

[Rack]

Some aspects that I’ll be interested in learning at some point, are:

- Is the 6/7-shot magazine tube one-piece, as it is on the current 1301 Tacticals?

- Will there also be a shorter magazine tube length offered, as is available with the 1301?

- Will standard A300 barrels fit the new A300 tactical based platform? (Would also love to see an A300 Comp Pro model that would also take standard hunting barrels.)

And by the way, to the implied question as to why I asked about Turkish barrels - don’t be too quick to suspect ill motives.

Ben - I appreciate the straightforward answer. I’ve enjoyed a number of Beretta and Benelli platforms for good reason. They are good products.

[Pnut]

Based solely on the pics, it appears that it uses the same barrel clamp and synthetic mag tube cover as the 1301, so I’m assuming that it’s a fixed 6/7 round tube underneath.

[Tannhauser]

Where is the rear QD attachment point for a sling?

[rob_s]

13" LOP stock (all there is for now but who knows what the future holds)

Asking because I genuinely don’t know…

Just how short can an A300 go?

On my wife’s clays gun I had to order a super slim butt pad and use non-OEM screws to attach it. And it’s still a little long. And I don’t see another option to shorten.

I got out my 870 just now and measured 12&7/8” but frankly that’s always seemed a little short for me at 6’-1” tall so the new gun would probably be just fine for me.

What’s a typical length people like on a 1301?

[TCinVA]

Asking because I genuinely don’t know…

Just how short can an A300 go?

On my wife’s clays gun I had to order a super slim butt pad and use non-OEM screws to attach it. And it’s still a little long. And I don’t see another option to shorten.

I got out my 870 just now and measured 12&7/8” but frankly that’s always seemed a little short for me at 6’-1” tall so the new gun would probably be just fine for me.

What’s a typical length people like on a 1301?

For women the 1301 + an Aridus SGA adapter with the Magpul stock and essentially and the small butt pad from the Ruger 10/22 stock Magpul makes seems to work out pretty well. They can use the gun with the standard butt pad, but the smaller one is better in terms of getting the gun situated on their torso.

I'm not sure how short the A300 can go...but that's going to be a function primarily of stock manufacturers. It does have the recoil tube that comes back out of the receiver, but that in and of itself is still not long enough to prevent having a stock with a 10-11" LOP on it...which is what most small statured people really need. The trouble is nobody makes that stock and nobody seems interested in making it.

The other thing to think about here is that body armor also makes having a much shorter LOP useful on long guns. Everybody would be much happier if the stock of the shotgun could sit with the toe right on a hunk of kevlar at the front of an officer's chest the same way an AR can when adjusted properly. A much shorter stock would make that possible. But I seem to be a lonely voice in the wilderness hollering about that.

[gato naranja]

...it's almost like this gun was specifically produced to give people considering a Mossberg a gun that actually works properly.

Or something.

Mossberg shotguns have been a metaphorical Lucy for me, yanking away the football. Every. Damned. Time.

I am not very enthused about a ghost ring rear sight, but if this thing actually works out, maybe I will abandon my vow to keep using the 870 until Judgement Day.

[DamonL]

Where is the rear QD attachment point for a sling?

Based on the video someone posted earlier, it looks like there is a QD socket on the bottom edge of the stock.

[Pnut]

Based on the video someone posted earlier, it looks like there is a QD socket on the bottom edge of the stock.

Just noticed that! Function-wise, this set up is so close to perfect for me… except for that rear sling attachment point!!! I feel, for a TACTICAL gun, the sting point should be on the side. But that’s my opinion.

[DamonL]

I have a gen 1 1301 and a Benelli M2. I had to buy a mag extension, mag clamp, QD swivel mount, pic rail mount for light, to get to to this same configuration. I spent a lot of extra money to get to this same configuration, so I think this is a good out-of-the-box solution. I need a DT-11 or A400 Excel more than I need this, but it sure would be nice to try out. It has a lot going for it. I liked the short factory stock, too. It was easier to adjust to than the long Benelli stock for me. If the iron sights are usable with a dot sight installed, it would be perfect.

[kwb377]

I feel, for a TACTICAL gun, the sling point should be on the side.

I've installed these on several stocks...work great.

https://grovtec.com/products/hollow-stock-push-button-base-gthm198-coming-soon

[Tannhauser]

Based on the video someone posted earlier, it looks like there is a QD socket on the bottom edge of the stock.

Interesting. I’ll go back and watch the video.

[gato naranja]

I have a gen 1 1301 and a Benelli M2. I had to buy a mag extension, mag clamp, QD swivel mount, pic rail mount for light, to get to to this same configuration. I spent a lot of extra money to get to this same configuration, so I think this is a good out-of-the-box solution. I need a DT-11 or A400 Excel more than I need this, but it sure would be nice to try out. It has a lot going for it. I liked the short factory stock, too. It was easier to adjust to than the long Benelli stock for me. If the iron sights are usable with a dot sight installed, it would be perfect.


I finally reached the point in life where I just want to buy a firearm and not have to jack around with it. I have modified and accessorized them for 50 freakin' years and I don't really care to do it anymore. That is why I finally made the move to the 92X- it is good enough the way it is.

It this shotty is equally good to go right out of the box, I'm interested.

[Cory]

I'm glad I have my 1301, and love it. But it's been expensive (for me) to get it to where I have it, and it doesn't have a decent light set up on it yet.

If this was on the market when I was buying, it would have been really difficult to go with the 1301.

I hope that handguard shows up for the 1301. Big time.

[Chuck Whitlock]

For women the 1301 + an Aridus SGA adapter with the Magpul stock and essentially and the small butt pad from the Ruger 10/22 stock Magpul makes seems to work out pretty well. They can use the gun with the standard butt pad, but the smaller one is better in terms of getting the gun situated on their torso.

I'm not sure how short the A300 can go...but that's going to be a function primarily of stock manufacturers. It does have the recoil tube that comes back out of the receiver, but that in and of itself is still not long enough to prevent having a stock with a 10-11" LOP on it...which is what most small statured people really need. The trouble is nobody makes that stock and nobody seems interested in making it.

The other thing to think about here is that body armor also makes having a much shorter LOP useful on long guns. Everybody would be much happier if the stock of the shotgun could sit with the toe right on a hunk of kevlar at the front of an officer's chest the same way an AR can when adjusted properly. A much shorter stock would make that possible. But I seem to be a lonely voice in the wilderness hollering about that.


That very reason (bolded), is why I bought my wife this some 10 years ago or so:

https://www.mossberg.com/510-youth-mini-super-bantam-all-purpose-field-50485.html

The stock is just so handy.

[MDFA]

Hello Beretta...

Yes My Credit Card Number Is. XXXXX:D

[Pyromancer]

Maybe I missed it but does this come with chokes?

[randyho]

... but that in and of itself is still not long enough to prevent having a stock with a 10-11" LOP on it...which is what most small statured people really need. The trouble is nobody makes that stock and nobody seems interested in making it.

Too true. I was thrilled to find a 12" hogue for my hd shotgun.

[L-2]

The Ultima Patrol A300 Beretta is finally on Beretta's website.

Is any non-disclosure agreement finally over or is there a specific date when any NDA on this matter ends?

https://www.beretta.com/en-us/a300-ultima-family/

[Ben_G]

Go for it

[LOKNLOD]

Looks great. I can definitely see adding one of these to the collection.


If the relationship works out something like this:

NewGun:1301::A300:A400

I think that’d be pretty sweet.

Looks like that was a good prediction. If anyone needs to know where to send my prize just PM me. :p

[kwb377]

Looking at these pics on the product page...

https://marvel-b1-cdn.bc0a.com/f00000000269380/www.beretta.com/assets/0/15/DimLarge/7b2.jpg

https://marvel-b1-cdn.bc0a.com/f00000000269380/www.beretta.com/assets/0/15/DimLarge/122.jpg

Is Beretta going to offer different mounting plates that replace the Pic. rail for optics? (this may have already been mentioned and I missed it)

[Totem Polar]

The Ultima Patrol A300 Beretta is finally on Beretta's website.

Is any non-disclosure agreement finally over or is there a specific date when any NDA on this matter ends?

https://www.beretta.com/en-us/a300-ultima-family/

OboyOboy!

That tiger stripe though… I seem to find that iteration strangely appealing. Grey and Black too, of course.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/931/834/0d9.jpg

[Pnut]

Reading the details on the Beretta site, it appears there are M-Loknslots at 3, 9 AND 6 o’clock positions on the forend! Also, the charging hand doesn’t look as obnoxious as the 1301’s.

[ECVMatt]

OboyOboy!

That tiger stripe though… I seem to find that iteration strangely appealing. Grey and Black too, of course.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/931/834/0d9.jpg

You beat me to it!

I normally hate camo guns, but this one is intriguing for sure!

I don't need another shotgun, I don't need another shotgun.....I am going to keep repeating this to myself.

[Lex Luthier]

I *do* need another shotgun, and this might be the one.

Subscribed.

(ETA: I don’t hate the tiger stripe either, though I usually would.)

[RevolverRob]

Two Questions that need to be answered:

1) Does it have screw-in chokes?

2) Does the bolt release function identically to the 1301 (i.e. can it be used to empty the tube, etc)?

[Bernomad]

These will sell well. I would likely have bought this instead of my 1301. But, I have a bitchin 1301 now.

[Ben_G]

Looking at these pics on the product page...

https://marvel-b1-cdn.bc0a.com/f00000000269380/www.beretta.com/assets/0/15/DimLarge/7b2.jpg

https://marvel-b1-cdn.bc0a.com/f00000000269380/www.beretta.com/assets/0/15/DimLarge/122.jpg

Is Beretta going to offer different mounting plates that replace the Pic. rail for optics? (this may have already been mentioned and I missed it)

Reptilia is making those plates, and we will be stocking them. Direct mount for MPS/Acro footprint at cowitness height. The hole pattern and receiver profile on the top of the gun are identical to the 1301T, so anything that works there will work on the Patrol, and vice versa.

As for the bolt release, yes, it'll function the same. I believe it's actually just the same exact part. In general with manual of arms, the modern Beretta semiautos are all standardized.

[Noah]

Reptilia is making those plates, and we will be stocking them. Direct mount for MPS/Acro footprint at cowitness height. The hole pattern and receiver profile on the top of the gun are identical to the 1301T, so anything that works there will work on the Patrol, and vice versa.

As for the bolt release, yes, it'll function the same. I believe it's actually just the same exact part. In general with manual of arms, the modern Beretta semiautos are all standardized.

How do I decide which new Beretta I buy this year? A300, 80X, 92XI....

With the A4, 92X RDO, and 92X Performances last year, and now the A300 Ultima and 80X, the only Beretta waiting on a refresh is the PX4... ;)

[rob_s]

The Ultima Patrol A300 Beretta is finally on Beretta's website.

https://www.beretta.com/en-us/a300-ultima-family/


OboyOboy!

That tiger stripe though… I seem to find that iteration strangely appealing. Grey and Black too, of course.


You beat me to it!

I normally hate camo guns, but this one is intriguing for sure!

I definitely don’t hate the TS. Grey option is intriguing but either very subtle (which would be super cool) or pics aren’t doing it justice.

TS
100074


Black (I think)
100073


Grey (I think)
100075

[Cory]

I've seen the "synthetic" A400 extreme plus. It has a grey receiver that looks similar in photos to the Ultima Patrol.

If it's the same, it's really good looking in person.

[gato naranja]

How do I decide which new Beretta I buy this year? A300, 80X, 92XI....

With the A4, 92X RDO, and 92X Performances last year, and now the A300 Ultima and 80X, the only Beretta waiting on a refresh is the PX4... ;)

The CX4 could use some tweaking too, but the PX4 has long deserved a grip worthy of the rest of it; factory RDO cuts on handguns are going to be dang near mandatory at this point, and Beretta could do worse than cut a deal with LTT on their version.

[TCinVA]

I definitely don’t hate the TS. Grey option is intriguing but either very subtle (which would be super cool) or pics aren’t doing it justice.

TS
100074


Black (I think)
100073


Grey (I think)
100075

The grey version looks very good in person.

[rob_s]

So the big question then becomes…

What can we expect to be able to buy and what’s the expected street price?

[DamonL]

They are $999 to $1099 on this site.

https://www.eurooptic.com/beretta-a300-outlander-shotguns.aspx

[L-2]

$899 here. I know nothing about this vendor, or the availability.
https://www.bereli.com/beretta-a300-ultima-patrol-12-19-7-round-mag-tube-shotgun/

[Navin Johnson]

A little over a month ago a store had two 1301T’s, the newer enhanced ones with the seven round tube, for $1250.

If I understood earlier postings the big difference will be is they (Patrol) will be available.

With Washington’s new 10 round mag ban to 1301’s don’t last more than a few minutes in the store, and there’s long waiting list.

[WobblyPossum]

$899 here. I know nothing about this vendor, or the availability.
https://www.bereli.com/beretta-a300-ultima-patrol-12-19-7-round-mag-tube-shotgun/

They’re legit. My friend bought an AUG from them last year. Lowest price I’ve ever seen.

[Jimichanga]

They’re legit. My friend bought an AUG from them last year. Lowest price I’ve ever seen.

Seconded, I've used them in the past. Website showed in stock items, prices are good and quick to ship. No affiliation.

[rob_s]

$899 here. I know nothing about this vendor, or the availability.
https://www.bereli.com/beretta-a300-ultima-patrol-12-19-7-round-mag-tube-shotgun/

Oh nice. 305 area code.

Not that I *want* to ebpver drive to Miami but if it’s to pick up a new gun…

[WobblyPossum]

Excellent question. Not quite yet. A300 and 1301 receivers have different interface points for handguards. That back bit that's a slightly different color in the render will be important later ;)

The A300 Ultima Patrol looks like an awesome product. I’m happy with my 1301 but if I was looking to buy a semiautomatic defensive shotgun right now, I’d grab this one. Like a few other folks here, I’m very interested in a version of this handguard for the 1301 and will buy it as soon as it’s available. It sounds like you guys are working on it so I’m excited.

[EzGoingKev]

$899 here. I know nothing about this vendor, or the availability.
https://www.bereli.com/beretta-a300-ultima-patrol-12-19-7-round-mag-tube-shotgun/
I have never dealt with them myself but back when I was looking to buy a shotgun they came up as having the best pricing. All I saw was good feedback about them being great to deal with.



A little over a month ago a store had two 1301T’s, the newer enhanced ones with the seven round tube, for $1250.

If I understood earlier postings the big difference will be is they (Patrol) will be available.

With Washington’s new 10 round mag ban to 1301’s don’t last more than a few minutes in the store, and there’s long waiting list.
That was then, this is now. Show me where you can get one today for that price.

Ben_G - MSRP on the A300 Patrol is $1099. MSRP on the 1301T is $1509 What is the $410 difference?

[Mr Pink]

I got to shoot the A300 Patrol at the SYMTAC shotgun course. Here's a video that goes into a little detail about the new shotgun:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zpoh7eARTMY

[Ben_G]

Bereli is breaking some rules there. We have commercial pricing and LE only pricing, and one isn't supposed to be posted to the public... Those pre orders from them might take a minute to fulfil... Other shops are going out this week though!

The price differences in the 1301 and A300 are going to be the barrel and the action. The 1301 has a steelium barrel, which means our lengthened forcing cone, backboring, and a whole bunch more. It also has a different action type that's more forgiving, faster cycling, and makes for easier maintenance for folks who truly abuse their stuff. All in all, I'd say that's a lot for the money. It's the same walk between the A300 and A400 for waterfowl. They're both great, proven platforms. The A400/1301 is definitely the best of our solutions for that field. The A300 is so good can get 90% of that experience a bit more easily. They're supposed to be someone's first step into Berettas.

[jandbj]

Just placed my preorder with for a grey one.
https://www.bereli.com?aff=4338

[rob_s]

Now that we know what the gun is called, any chance of a thread re-name to something like “Beretta A300 Patrol”?

I suspect this will become an epic thread like the 1301 has become and it’d be cool to preserve all the early scuttlebutt posts for later on all in one continuous thread.

[gato naranja]

Just placed my preorder with for a grey one.

The time is probably right for me to make the final jump to an automatic, but too much of my grandfather's "never buy anything the first year it comes out" advice is till sloshing around in my cranium.

I wonder how this A300 Patrol will stack up against a 1301T as far as pushing the operator around for any given load? My lead sled 870P is about all I can take at this point with normal buckshot loads, and it weighs about 7-1/2 pounds.

[rob_s]

Just placed my preorder with for a grey one.
https://www.bereli.com?aff=4338

Nice to see that the grey isn't a premium price over the black.

[WobblyPossum]

The time is probably right for me to make the final jump to an automatic, but too much of my grandfather's "never buy anything the first year it comes out" advice is till sloshing around in my cranium.

I wonder how this A300 Patrol will stack up against a 1301T as far as pushing the operator around for any given load? My lead sled 870P is about all I can take at this point with normal buckshot loads, and it weighs about 7-1/2 pounds.

This isn’t some new design. It’s a regular A300 shotgun except with a 7 round magazine tube and a better handguard. I think the first A300 came out in 1968 or something.

[EzGoingKev]

The price differences in the 1301 and A300 are going to be the barrel and the action. The 1301 has a steelium barrel, which means our lengthened forcing cone, backboring, and a whole bunch more. It also has a different action type that's more forgiving, faster cycling, and makes for easier maintenance for folks who truly abuse their stuff. All in all, I'd say that's a lot for the money. It's the same walk between the A300 and A400 for waterfowl. They're both great, proven platforms. The A400/1301 is definitely the best of our solutions for that field. The A300 is so good can get 90% of that experience a bit more easily. They're supposed to be someone's first step into Berettas.

Thanks for the info!

[Mr Pink]

They're supposed to be someone's first step into Berettas.
That's impressive for someone's first steps into a Beretta shotgun. In the video I posted you can see myself and Logan shooting doubles on steel with no issues. I absolutely love my 1301s, but that A300 was also a pleasure to shoot. My biggest concern is going to be the availability and price of the 1301 in the future.


https://youtu.be/Zpoh7eARTMY?t=10

[GearFondler]

Another vid from TFB...


https://youtu.be/E5bGaGX22Zs

Edit: fixed the link

I really like the milled out loading port... That's a sweet factory mod.

[Navin Johnson]

That's impressive for someone's first steps into a Beretta shotgun. In the video I posted you can see myself and Logan shooting doubles on steel with no issues. I absolutely love my 1301s, but that A300 was also a pleasure to shoot. My biggest concern is going to be the availability and price of the 1301 in the future.


https://youtu.be/Zpoh7eARTMY?t=10

Depending on actual retail price point for the new one once it gains traction my guess is 1301s will become more available.

Chances are the marketing strategy will be a raise the 1301 considerably, to make the A300 more appealing at a $G. Probably need around 400+ dollar difference.

A local dealer quoted me 1250 on a 1301 based on the last one he sold a month ago if he gets me one for that I will buy it, if it goes up considerably, I’ll probably wait and see how the new ones work out

[rob_s]

Another vid from TFB...


https://youtu.be/E5bGaGX22Zs

Edit: fixed the link

I really like the milled out loading port... That's a sweet factory mod.

That's a good one.

confirms chokes (which I'm indifferent about myself) and gives some 1301 comparisons.


https://youtu.be/E5bGaGX22Zs

[Mr Pink]

A local dealer quoted me 1250 on a 1301 based on the last one he sold a month ago if he gets me one for that I will buy it, if it goes up considerably, I’ll probably wait and see how the new ones work out
I hope you're able to get one for that price as I would definitely buy a 1301 for that price too. I've heard the 1301 will go up considerably since it's very difficult to get materials for parts in Europe.

[GJM]

What is the argument for this new A300 over the 1301 other than price?

[rob_s]

What is the argument for this new A300 over the 1301 other than price?

AFAIK just price?

but it’s not insignificant given the increases and I believe that (for someone like me) I’m not giving up anything but not paying the (increasing) premium. $20l increase on the 1301 in 2 months, putting it at $500 (or more than 160%) price premium vs the new gun.

100178

100180

[Cory]

What is the argument for this new A300 over the 1301 other than price?

I think the forend with built in rail may prove to be a plus. Right now the 1301 requires aftermarket to get a light in that spot.

So perhaps some of the "out of the box" readiness. Perhaps the sight mount too. Depends on the quality vs Aridus.

[oss117]

What is the argument for this new A300 over the 1301 other than price?

Ben_G went over the differences between the a400 and a300 in an earlier reply. Quality of the barrel was one of them. Sounds like both are really good though.

[Bernomad]

Just placed my preorder with for a grey one.
https://www.bereli.com?aff=4338

Good choice! Hats off to Beretta.

[Ben_G]

What is the argument for this new A300 over the 1301 other than price?

For an A300 over a 1301? It's really just price, and for now, probably the approachability factor for someone not so well versed or comfortable in fully setting up a gun.

The Patrol is 'just add sling, choice of optic, choice of light, apply Velcro, and choice of side saddle, and go' and at a critical waterline for the price. To me, that makes the A300 for a bit of a different market than the 1301. The idea was that for someone new new to defensive shotguns, let's give them the best out of the box ready to go option that won't break the bank or trip them up (we saw that a reliable semiauto can be easier for new folks to figure out than a pump), or for someone in the 12ga tac club already, here's a backup or spare gun for a buddy for a range day.

I'm picking up a couple of these with all the work I put into them (we've worked on this program for a significant period of time), and I plan to run the hell out of them, but you better believe I'm not getting rid of my 1301 anytime soon.

There's maybe 2 bullet points on the features list of the Patrol that aren't on my 1301t, but as far as I know, there's no mechanical reason they can't be implemented on my 1301.

[rob_s]

Logan is putting in the work. :D


https://youtu.be/HAUZzHOOkO4

[Hambo]

For an A300 over a 1301? It's really just price, and for now, probably the approachability factor for someone not so well versed or comfortable in fully setting up a gun.

The Patrol is 'just add sling, choice of optic, choice of light, apply Velcro, and choice of side saddle, and go' and at a critical waterline for the price. To me, that makes the A300 for a bit of a different market than the 1301. The idea was that for someone new new to defensive shotguns, let's give them the best out of the box ready to go option that won't break the bank or trip them up (we saw that a reliable semiauto can be easier for new folks to figure out than a pump), or for someone in the 12ga tac club already, here's a backup or spare gun for a buddy for a range day.

I'm picking up a couple of these with all the work I put into them (we've worked on this program for a significant period of time), and I plan to run the hell out of them, but you better believe I'm not getting rid of my 1301 anytime soon.

There's maybe 2 bullet points on the features list of the Patrol that aren't on my 1301t, but as far as I know, there's no mechanical reason they can't be implemented on my 1301.

On the Beretta site it says MC for choke. Is that modified or Beretta for IC?

I've been eye-fucking a couple of Benelli M4s in the local shop, pero no mas. It's take my money time. :cool:

[GJM]

On the Beretta site it says MC for choke. Is that modified or Beretta for IC?

I've been eye-fucking a couple of Benelli M4s in the local shop, pero no mas. It's take my money time. :cool:

The Benelli M4 is a shotgun that I adore in concept, but really don't enjoy to shoot or carry. I have a 14 inch and almost never carry it in Alaska.

Great job by Beretta in developing this new shotgun offering!

[mmc45414]

I really like the milled out loading port... That's a sweet factory mod.
Hogged out better than my 1301 Comp!!! :cool:
This really is right on time for me. I sold my 1301T and within a few days, after I spent the money on what I sold it to buy, sorta wished I had not...
But as soon as I get the replacement MRO mount from Rusty Nuts (I told him no rush, my local 3gun has not included that shotgun for a couple months) the 1301 will be fully an Open gun, and kinda clunky for actual defense. And I was never exactly happy with all of the light options for the 1301T, but this M-Loc fore end looks like what I was contemplating as a hack on the 1301.

One more relatively expensive pistol project planned in the queue and then these might become routinely available, might be the perfect timeline for me.

ETA:

What is the argument for this new A300 over the 1301 other than price?
Potentially, as has been discussed elsewhere and that may or may not matter, it is not imported. And it has features that cannot be imported. ETA: If Beretta had been doing something like installing the long magazine after importation that seems like a short term approach from a manufacturing perspective. I think it would be reasonable speculation that the 1301 extended magazine was a prove-out for the A300 Patrol that was probably already being planned or contemplated.

If a fella thinks this matters or not is up to them, but the dang ol ATF has been a little fickle on the brace thing, so this might be extra assurance.

Would the Patrol be legal in all (at least more?) states? Might there be a 5+1 tube swap possible?

I just keep on ETAing:

On the Beretta site it says MC for choke. Is that modified or Beretta for IC?
I think that is Beretta for Mobile Choke (https://www.beretta.com/en-us/gun-accessories/shotguns/choke-tubes/).
I think means it will not be the same as the 1301 chokes, but I am pretty sure that means it will be the same as the chokes I have for my 391. I would probably want a flush choke for the Patrol, but I could at least pattern and experiment with the pile of them I already have.

[rob_s]

Since this shotgun has me re-interested in shotguns in a way I haven't been for awhile...

Several of the videos, and perhaps posts in this thread, mention it being optimized for Flitecontrol ammo. Being horribly outdated in my shotgun ammo knowledge, that leads me to a couple of questions:

Probably most important, do we have a "PF semiofficial flitecontrol thread" or, if not, a "PF semioficial defensive shotgun ammo thread" where such topics would be better caught up upon and/or discussed?
Does 8-pellet or 9-pellet tend to matter in these situations, specific to operating system of the firearm?
Is there a broadly-accepted slug load to match it with, since the A300 Patrol comes with that snazzy Velcro for the side-saddle and all?


eta:
RE#1 above, I did manage to find an ongoing thread specific to flitecontrol
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?49457-Federal-Flight-Control

[gato naranja]

For an A300 over a 1301? It's really just price, and for now, probably the approachability factor for someone not so well versed or comfortable in fully setting up a gun.

The Patrol is 'just add sling, choice of optic, choice of light, apply Velcro, and choice of side saddle, and go' and at a critical waterline for the price. To me, that makes the A300 for a bit of a different market than the 1301. The idea was that for someone new new to defensive shotguns, let's give them the best out of the box ready to go option that won't break the bank or trip them up (we saw that a reliable semiauto can be easier for new folks to figure out than a pump), or for someone in the 12ga tac club already, here's a backup or spare gun for a buddy for a range day.


Very concise and well thought out.

As an old guy who has gone down many dead ends with shotguns, this certainly looks like an easy button for what well may be the last gauge I buy in this time/space continuum. As little as I use a shotgun nowadays, I could keep my 870P as it is currently configured and be okay, but I would really prefer a semiauto to reduce the future possibility of certain "declining gross motor skill" induced malfunctions.

(AKA: short-stroking a pump gun.)

I have slings, I have optics and I have weaponlights; what I have never had is a shotgun I could afford to replace that takes all three without my having to screw around making everything work. Looks like I may get my chance.

[Miles_Urbanus]

Can you discuss the thought process behind the location of the buttstock QD point on the bottom of the stock?. Would a QD point be better in the center of the left or right side of the stock for cross body carry (with a 2 point sling). Most of my experience is with the AR platform so perhaps there is something I am missing. Is there room inside the stock with the recoil system to fit a QD point if desired?

This thread is ground zero for info on this new weapon. I appreciate all the knowledgeable folks here sharing their insight and experience.

[RevolverRob]

Since this shotgun has me re-interested in shotguns in a way I haven't been for awhile...

Several of the videos, and perhaps posts in this thread, mention it being optimized for Flitecontrol ammo. Being horribly outdated in my shotgun ammo knowledge, that leads me to a couple of questions:

Probably most important, do we have a "PF semiofficial flitecontrol thread" or, if not, a "PF semioficial defensive shotgun ammo thread" where such topics would be better caught up upon and/or discussed?
Does 8-pellet or 9-pellet tend to matter in these situations, specific to operating system of the firearm?
Is there a broadly-accepted slug load to match it with, since the A300 Patrol comes with that snazzy Velcro for the side-saddle and all?


eta:
RE#1 above, I did manage to find an ongoing thread specific to flitecontrol
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?49457-Federal-Flight-Control

Yes to thread (obviously).

Low recoil 8-pellet (LE133-00) tends to perform better in that low recoil 9-pellet (LE132-00) tends to produce a flier pellet at longer distances (25y+). 9-pellet has been obtainable in the recent past where 8-pellet has been largely unobtanium for the past 3yrs. It comes into stock and goes just as fast.

Both the low recoil variants 133/132 pattern better than the "full power" LE127-00 stuff.

Hornady Tap LE is a good substitute for LE133-00 if you have credentials for it. They make an 8-pellet low recoil and Hornady's versatite wad is basically the same as flite control wad. It's more available. Some local PD supply houses don't bother checking creds and you can buy it.

Slugs: Federal Truball (LEB127 RS) or Federal Hydrashok (LE127RS) tend to match the characteristics and aim points of either of the low recoil buck.

Right now my 12-gauge gun in the house has LE132-00 (9-pellet) in the tube and same in the side saddle with a couple of LE127 RS (Hydrashok Slugs) also in the side saddle. I could get 9-pellet and it patterns acceptably at 25y for me.

[L-2]

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4340-12-gauge-shotgun-loads-for-LE-duty-use
Here's another PF thread regarding shotgun ammo. It is from 2012, but still relevant, even though a bit dated.

Do a search for FLITE CONTROL in the Ammunition sub-forum:
https://pistol-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?19-Ammunition

[Hambo]

I think that is Beretta for Mobile Choke (https://www.beretta.com/en-us/gun-accessories/shotguns/choke-tubes/).
I think means it will not be the same as the 1301 chokes, but I am pretty sure that means it will be the same as the chokes I have for my 391. I would probably want a flush choke for the Patrol, but I could at least pattern and experiment with the pile of them I already have.

Yeah, I found it on RSR and it says Mobile Choke system. That's good news, because I have a bunch of those tubes.

[perlslacker]

I'm glad to hear that too since my Nova takes those same tubes!

[Centerfire]

AFAIK just price?

but it’s not insignificant given the increases and I believe that (for someone like me) I’m not giving up anything but not paying the (increasing) premium. $20l increase on the 1301 in 2 months, putting it at $500 (or more than 160%) price premium vs the new gun.

100178

100180

If you plan to keep the gun 100% that might be true, but the 1301 has more market support. I don't know what is under the A300P sights but the 1301T takes off the shelf LPA sights, for example. The two main benefits that I can see are the price and the new forearm (which may change). Everything else about the A300 is a step backward, such as the imported Turkish barrel, chokes, proprietary sights, and probably some things we haven't caught on to yet.

The firearms industry in general has been in a race to the bottom for the last 15+ years and this isn't much different. I asked early in this thread if this would be a Turkish gun and it was met with much consternation. There was a an emphatic "No!"...and then a quiet "sorta". Are you giving up anything buying a Turknelli M4 instead of a real M4? Some people don't think so but clearly the answer is yes. There are no free lunches, the $400 dollar question is, is poverty tier good enough if it has Beretta's name stamped on it?

[RevolverRob]

There are no free lunches, the $400 dollar question is, is poverty tier good enough if it has Beretta's name stamped on it?

Not to me.

But I am biased, bigoted, based, whatever you want to call me - against supporting Turkey. I really don't care how much Italian money goes to build a factory in Turkey. The reality is that money going to Turkey and especially the Turkish arms industry directly supports people I am not comfortable supporting (e.g. Erdogan and cronies).

And the other reality is there are other countries to build factories in that have cheaper labor and better human rights records than Turkey.

Damn shame, because this was a contender for me. Oh well.

[BillSWPA]

For an A300 over a 1301? It's really just price, and for now, probably the approachability factor for someone not so well versed or comfortable in fully setting up a gun.

The Patrol is 'just add sling, choice of optic, choice of light, apply Velcro, and choice of side saddle, and go' and at a critical waterline for the price. To me, that makes the A300 for a bit of a different market than the 1301. The idea was that for someone new new to defensive shotguns, let's give them the best out of the box ready to go option that won't break the bank or trip them up (we saw that a reliable semiauto can be easier for new folks to figure out than a pump), or for someone in the 12ga tac club already, here's a backup or spare gun for a buddy for a range day.

I'm picking up a couple of these with all the work I put into them (we've worked on this program for a significant period of time), and I plan to run the hell out of them, but you better believe I'm not getting rid of my 1301 anytime soon.

There's maybe 2 bullet points on the features list of the Patrol that aren't on my 1301t, but as far as I know, there's no mechanical reason they can't be implemented on my 1301.

I am probably in the target market, since I am much more of a pistol shooter than a shotgun shooter, but can appreciate the advantages of a shotgun. Having a design that is ready for easy addition of an optic, light, and sling right out of the box is a sign of a well-thought-out design. If/when I buy a defensive shotgun, this one just jumped to the top of my list.

[perlslacker]

There are no free lunches, the $400 dollar question is, is poverty tier good enough if it has Beretta's name stamped on it?

Not sure a $900 shotgun is "poverty tier" but whatever.

Re: proprietary sights, the product description says it's compatible with all 1301 optic mounts so I don't think sights are an issue.

[EzGoingKev]

Did I miss some posts here? How did the A300 Patrol go from an entry level Beretta made in TN to a poor man's Turkish special?

[RevolverRob]

Post #118 acknowledges that the barrel for the A300 is made in Beretta's Turkish factory. This appears to be the case for all A300s and was the case for the 390 or 391 that the A300 replaces.

The A300 itself is designed to offer many features of the A400 (which the 1301 is based on) at reduced overall costs. The A300 doesn't use the Steelium barrel (not cryo treated). It does not have the lengthened forcing cone and BLINK gas system of the 1301, it uses the Mobil chokes instead of the Optima Chokes.

Whether or not any of this actually matters is a different question. And the A300 UP offers some great features at its price point. But there is no denying two aspects of this: the A300 UP is specifically being made more cheaply than the 1301T entry-level guns that it is replacing. The new 1301Ts are going up in price.

[Tannhauser]

Did I miss some posts here? How did the A300 Patrol go from an entry level Beretta made in TN to a poor man's Turkish special?

This thread has taken a strange turn.

Or maybe it’s this forum. This is the only time I’ve ever heard of a Beretta A300 shotgun considered “Turkish junk tier”.

[jlw]

Is it compatible with the Striker Control Device?

[perlslacker]

Post #118 acknowledges that the barrel for the A300 is made in Beretta's Turkish factory. This appears to be the case for all A300s and was the case for the 390 or 391 that the A300 replaces.

The A300 itself is designed to offer many features of the A400 (which the 1301 is based on) at reduced overall costs. The A300 doesn't use the Steelium barrel (not cryo treated). It does not have the lengthened forcing cone and BLINK gas system of the 1301, it uses the Mobil chokes instead of the Optima Chokes.

Whether or not any of this actually matters is a different question. And the A300 UP offers some great features at its price point. But there is no denying two aspects of this: the A300 UP is specifically being made more cheaply than the 1301T entry-level guns that it is replacing. The new 1301Ts are going up in price.

I expect the A300's barrel to pattern worse with buckshot than a Steelium™®© barrel (I think this has been confirmed in this thread somewhere) but I don't think that's a huge deal for most folks' use case. It isn't for mine.

What's frustrating is that Beretta themselves said "hey this is a 1301 with a reduced feature set at a lower price point" and some people are like "BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE ALL THE FEATURES OF THE 1301 I'M MAD NOW!" If you want a 1301 then buy a 1301, sheesh.

[EzGoingKev]

Post #118 acknowledges that the barrel for the A300 is made in Beretta's Turkish factory. This appears to be the case for all A300s and was the case for the 390 or 391 that the A300 replaces.

OK thanks. I did miss that post.

Companies today recognize that there are different tiers of customer based on their budgets. Not everyone wants to spend the money on a 1301 but still wants a tactical Beretta shotgun. The A300 lowers the price of admission.

I see this A300 as a perfect option for someone that wants a quality gun with good features that they are going to shoot once and stick in their safe so they know it is there JIC.

[Centerfire]

I expect the A300's barrel to pattern worse with buckshot than a Steelium™®© barrel (I think this has been confirmed in this thread somewhere) but I don't think that's a huge deal for most folks' use case. It isn't for mine.

What's frustrating is that Beretta themselves said "hey this is a 1301 with a reduced feature set at a lower price point" and some people are like "BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE ALL THE FEATURES OF THE 1301 I'M MAD NOW!" If you want a 1301 then buy a 1301, sheesh.

They also said it was made in the US, which isn't the whole story either. It's like asking your mom for a pair of Jordans but she get's you a pair of Force and says they're just as good and half the price. Sure, they're both shoes, and you can still dunk in the Force, but they aren't Air Jordans no matter what your mom says. Go ahead, show up to 8th grade in a pair of Force and tell the other kids they're just as good. You're going to get laughed at because everyone knows the difference.

[RevolverRob]

This thread has taken a strange turn.

Or maybe it’s this forum. This is the only time I’ve ever heard of a Beretta A300 shotgun considered “Turkish junk tier”.

It hasn't taken a strange turn to me.

The question was asked early on if this new model used Turkish components or was Turkish to save costs. There was a lot of "Beretta doesn't do that." - followed by the actual acknowledgement that this is exactly the case.

Some folks (myself included) don't buy guns with major parts made in Turkish factories, because of political reasons. Others have been burned on Turkish guns from poor quality. I doubt seriously anyone will notice a significant enough performance difference in an Italian vs. Turkish barrel.

For me, personally, I won't buy one because every time I'd look at it, I would remember the Turkish bits.

Honestly at this point, I just hope Beretta hogs out the loading port on the 1301 Comp Pro to be comparable to this A300UP. As is, that's what I'll buy instead of this.

[perlslacker]

They also said it was made in the US, which isn't the whole story either. It's like asking your mom for a pair of Jordans but she get's you a pair of Force and says they're just as good and half the price. Sure, they're both shoes, and you can still dunk in the Force, but they aren't Air Jordans no matter what your mom says. Go ahead, show up to 8th grade in a pair of Force and tell the other kids they're just as good. You're going to get laughed at because everyone knows the difference.

The last time I tried that they said "sir, unless you're a parent of a student we're going to have to ask you to leave."

Seriously though, I think it's pretty clear that you're arguing in bad faith. Enjoy your evening.

[Centerfire]

It hasn't taken a strange turn to me.

The question was asked early on if this new model used Turkish components or was Turkish to save costs. There was a lot of "Beretta doesn't do that." - followed by the actual acknowledgement that this is exactly the case.

Some folks (myself included) don't buy guns with major parts made in Turkish factories, because of political reasons. Others have been burned on Turkish guns from poor quality. I doubt seriously anyone will notice a significant enough performance difference in an Italian vs. Turkish barrel.

For me, personally, I won't buy one because every time I'd look at it, I would remember the Turkish bits.

Honestly at this point, I just hope Beretta hogs out the loading port on the 1301 Comp Pro to be comparable to this A300UP. As is, that's what I'll buy instead of this.

Exactly. I wouldn't have even followed up if the original response was "we used some sourced parts, in addition to domestic parts, to lower the price-point.

[GJM]

It is awesome to have Beretta participating in this thread, sharing info -- let's not cause them to regret it.

[Lester Polfus]

Regardless of how many parts came via Constantinople, I'd be much more confident plunking my $Thoudo down on the barrel head with this shotgun than anything else in its price bracket.

[Lester Polfus]

I know this is mostly marketed as a fighting shotgun, for perfectly sensible reasons. At 38" and 7.1 pounds, I'm actually considering it as a Walking Around Gun here on the property and environs. There are times of year when I could lawfully take rabbit, deer, black bear, cougar, grouse, mourning dove and band-tailed pigeon on the same day. Due to the thick cover, ranges are quite short, so a person with a pocket full of #6s (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=6s) and some slugs in the tube could have a nice day. Ghost rings or a red dot maybe aren't the best thing for flushed birds but I could make it work. It makes more sense to have a set up that is optimized for big game that can also take birds and small game than the other way around.

And of course it would be a dandy defensive tool.

[45dotACP]

Is it compatible with the Striker Control Device?I'd prefer it had a LEM trigger

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[MandoWookie]

They also said it was made in the US, which isn't the whole story either. It's like asking your mom for a pair of Jordans but she get's you a pair of Force and says they're just as good and half the price. Sure, they're both shoes, and you can still dunk in the Force, but they aren't Air Jordans no matter what your mom says. Go ahead, show up to 8th grade in a pair of Force and tell the other kids they're just as good. You're going to get laughed at because everyone knows the difference.


So you don't actually care about capability, all you care about is bragging rights.
Also I thought it was common knowledge that 'made in America' but lower cost then other offerings means 'assembled in America from parts sourced from who knows'.

If that bothers you, you really should look into who made the components of just about everything in your house.

I guarantee you will find it comes from somewhere that has, or is, committed acts that you find distasteful.

[rob_s]

For an A300 over a 1301? It's really just price, and for now, probably the approachability factor for someone not so well versed or comfortable in fully setting up a gun.

The Patrol is 'just add sling, choice of optic, choice of light, apply Velcro, and choice of side saddle, and go' and at a critical waterline for the price. To me, that makes the A300 for a bit of a different market than the 1301. The idea was that for someone new new to defensive shotguns, let's give them the best out of the box ready to go option that won't break the bank or trip them up (we saw that a reliable semiauto can be easier for new folks to figure out than a pump), or for someone in the 12ga tac club already, here's a backup or spare gun for a buddy for a range day.

I think this is a great point. I posted about this being a $500 less-expensive option than a 1301 but that’s not even really true. The 1301 thread is filled with “this gun is perfect, now let me spend another $500-1k making it perfecter” discussions, where (for me, and admittedly non-shotgun guy, who already owns two a300 sporting guns that we love, and that thinks all short guns should be $250 police trade in 870s) the a300up is a turnkey, no-fiddle-fart, solution.

I’m also of the opinion that people’s political problems have no place in a technical discussion. You think Turkish steel is somehow appreciably worse? Great, get out your metallurgy degree, or go to the range and test both, and explain it to us. Carrying around some butt-hurt about the Turkish government? Take it somewhere else.

I think this is a great move for beretta, and other than a couple of whiners the responses in the thread clearly agree. I bet there are a LOT of guys like me out there that were kinda sorta almost willing to part with $1,300 for a 1301, that weren’t looking forward to having to tinker with it immediately, who are simply out of the game at the $1,500 price point, that will be ecstatic to buy the a300up.

After writing all of that, I frankly see the a300up as an upgrade over the 1301. Gun in hand is better than two in the factory, and all that.

[rob_s]

In this video Logan talks about the differences in the bolt.


https://youtu.be/755fyazNMrI

[Hambo]

It is awesome to have Beretta participating in this thread, sharing info -- let's not cause them to regret it.

I don't think Ben will have any trouble figuring out who's who in this zoo.


I think this is a great point. I posted about this being a $500 less-expensive option than a 1301 but that’s not even really true. The 1301 thread is filled with “this gun is perfect, now let me spend another $500-1k making it perfecter” discussions, where (for me, and admittedly non-shotgun guy, who already owns two a300 sporting guns that we love, and that thinks all short guns should be $250 police trade in 870s) the a300up is a turnkey, no-fiddle-fart, solution.

I’m also of the opinion that people’s political problems have no place in a technical discussion. You think Turkish steel is somehow appreciably worse? Great, get out your metallurgy degree, or go to the range and test both, and explain it to us. Carrying around some butt-hurt about the Turkish government? Take it somewhere else.

I think this is a great move for beretta, and other than a couple of whiners the responses in the thread clearly agree. I bet there are a LOT of guys like me out there that were kinda sorta almost willing to part with $1,300 for a 1301, that weren’t looking forward to having to tinker with it immediately, who are simply out of the game at the $1,500 price point, that will be ecstatic to buy the a300up.

After writing all of that, I frankly see the a300up as an upgrade over the 1301. Gun in hand is better than two in the factory, and all that.

Great summary. P-F members should remember that Tom Jones engineered a fix for an early 1301 issue. That and the fixed choke were turnoffs for me to the early 1301s. Beretta fixed that, but it was still an expensive Lego project to get a light on it (or pay Ernie Langdon even more money for an out the door ready version). Fully set up a 1301 was into base Benelli M4 territory (which still required more money to un-neuter it). For the same money you can buy a A390, a lot of buckshot, and a really good shotgun class.

[Cory]

I think this is a great point. I posted about this being a $500 less-expensive option than a 1301 but that’s not even really true. The 1301 thread is filled with “this gun is perfect, now let me spend another $500-1k making it perfecter” discussions, where (for me, and admittedly non-shotgun guy, who already owns two a300 sporting guns that we love, and that thinks all short guns should be $250 police trade in 870s) the a300up is a turnkey, no-fiddle-fart, solution.

I’m also of the opinion that people’s political problems have no place in a technical discussion. You think Turkish steel is somehow appreciably worse? Great, get out your metallurgy degree, or go to the range and test both, and explain it to us. Carrying around some butt-hurt about the Turkish government? Take it somewhere else.

I think this is a great move for beretta, and other than a couple of whiners the responses in the thread clearly agree. I bet there are a LOT of guys like me out there that were kinda sorta almost willing to part with $1,300 for a 1301, that weren’t looking forward to having to tinker with it immediately, who are simply out of the game at the $1,500 price point, that will be ecstatic to buy the a300up.

After writing all of that, I frankly see the a300up as an upgrade over the 1301. Gun in hand is better than two in the factory, and all that.

Agreed on all points. This thread is about the gun, not the politics of manufacture vs assembly and where the barrel of a known reliable shotgun is made. I'd be open to reading a seperate thread on that topic. We can lose manufacturer insight if we're insulting and crass. Doesnt mean we cant talk about it, but tact is important I think.

You're spot on about the hem-haw on the 1301 purchase. It took me years to justify spending money on the 1301, because I generally get 1 gun a year maximum and the price was a lot to handle. I'm now looking at sporting/hunting guns that are A400s for some compatability reasons (chokes, spare parts, internal love for matching stuff).

If the A300 UP was around few years ago I would have probably picked it over the 1301. And the sporting/hunting companion would be more obtainable as well.

[RevolverRob]

where the barrel of a known reliable shotgun is made.

:confused: The gun came out five days ago and is pre-order status.

I understand that Beretta generally builds quality shotguns and the A300 action has existed for awhile. But chopping barrel length off a gas gun can induce a higher rate of failures. It might be premature to make this statement in a technical sense.

Edit: Perhaps Ben_G can give us more insight on if the guns that went through training courses were pre-production or production guns. And what the mean rounds between failures were with birdshot, buckshot, and slugs. Also, if Beretta can inform us about the expected functional differences of Steelium vs. Non-Steelium barrels.