DMF13 on final approach

[DMF13]

Two years after first asking about getting started in reloading, with tons of good advice from this forum, including a member who offered to let me come try out his press (unfortunately he's in another state), and another who spent over an hour on the phone advising me, I'm on final approach, and should be loading rounds after the holidays.

These are general reloading items I have already:
1. Components (Federal GM100 SPP, Winchester 231 powder, and lots of once fired Winchester, Federal, and Hornady cases, and I’m about to order some Blue Bullets 135gr TC bullets)
2. FART Lite (I've cleaned about 15K once fired cases in the last year and a half, and have another 10K uncleaned once fired cases)
3. Case Dryer
4. Scale (a Lee beam scale, and a National Metallic digital scale)
5. Calipers
6. Sturdy bench, and Inline Fabrication Quick Change bench plate, with the spacer (I might mount it flush later, but I'm leery of my skill with a router, and don't want to ruin my table)
7. RCBS Lockout die
8. Lee undersize sizing/depriming die
9. DAA/Lee 2-in-1 seat/crimp die
10. 6 Hornady Sure-Loc rings
11. Lyman and Hornady load data books, along with the load data info from the Blue Bullets website
13. Primer flip tray

These are the press specific items recently delivered, or on their way, from the recent BF/CM deals:
1. Hornady Lock-n-Load AP Press - I was all set to get a Square Deal B, but the Brownells LNL-AP sale price, along with the their BF/CM discounts, was too good a deal to pass up. Total cost, not including sales tax, was $460. At that price, if my calculations were correct, I can set up the LNL-AP for slightly more than the SDB would have cost.
2. Hornady #8 Shell Plate for 9mm
3. Spent Primer bottle
4. DAA PTX funnel
5. Inline Fabrication QC mount for the LNL-AP (I'll be loading in the garage, but storing the press inside to mitigate rust)
6. Inline Fabrication Skylight
7. Extra SPP pick up tubes

The plan right now is to start with one station empty, and add a bullet feeding die once I get comfortable with the process.

I think that's what I'll need to get started, but any advice you all can provide is greatly appreciated.

Here are things I hope to add over time:
1. Hundo case gauge (I’ll use a spare G19 barrel at first)
2. Chronograph
3. Short or Ergo roller handle from Inline Fabrication (not sure which I want)
4. Mini Mr Bullet Feeder or SoCal Mag-P, and DAA bullet dropper die (the DAA die, because I plan on using coated bullets, and have heard the Hornady bullet dropper doesn’t work well with those)

The goal is to get a good load dialed in for 9mm 135gr, that will easily make minor power factor for USPSA, and then start cranking out rounds.

I built a bench is free standing, and has retractable casters if I want to move it. It's very heavy, and stable, but to make it even more solid, I'm thinking about mounting a piece of 2x6 across some studs, with a couple of T-nuts in it, so I can bolt the bench to the wall. That way, if I need to move it for other projects, I can just remove those the bolts, lower the casters, and move it around.

Again, I'd be grateful for advice on things I've forgotten, or got wrong.

[DMF13]

I finally got off my butt, got everything set up, and created test loads for:

135gr TC Blue Bullets
Federal Gold Medal Match SPP
Hornady Nickel Plated Brass (once fired, wet tumbled, no pins, before decapping)

I loaded 10 to 12 rounds at the following weights:
3.7gr
3.8gr
3.9gr
4.0gr
4.1gr
4.2gr

OAL was set at 1.150", but when I actually started running cases, with rounds at each station, OAL varied from 1.150 to 1.156.

I had a couple of cases that had high primers, which I attribute to me not having a feel for the press yet, and failing to fully seat the primers. Twice the powder measure stuck in the up position, and I got no powder, buy my visual check caught that before placing a bullet.

I did have one round fail to case gauge, and I'm not sure why that happened. I'm running a U die for sizing, and a factory crimp die. Probably overkill, but I thought that would be a "belt and suspenders" approach.

Today I shot test groups, at 10 yards, forearms supported over a bench. i was using my Glock 19 Gen 5 that will be my Carry Optics gun for USPSA.

Except for the 3.7gr, and 3.8gr, I got each group at less than 2", roughly 1.75" for each 10 to 12 shot group.

I am guessing my old eyes, and a little weakness in trigger control account for not having tighter groups.

I'm open to suggestions, but my plan moving forward is to adjust the seating die, to get the overall length bracketed around the load data recommended 1.150," and start cranking out rounds with 4.2gr. The high end load is more to keep my practice rounds closer in feel to our duty rounds, than concerns about power factor. 4.2gr should be about 139PF.

[DMF13]

I foolishly forgot to mention, the powder is Winchester 231.

[SecondsCount]

Congrats on some successful loads!

Blue Bullets are good for general use, and I really like the 135, but out of my HKs, a jacketed HP is noticeably more accurate.

[DMF13]

Got a few hundred rounds loaded, and used some in my most recent match.

Had some big problems with the primer system, but a call to customer service got that resolved that. I just needed to adjust timing at the bracket that holds times the cam wire. Turns out some folks think the primer slide should be perfectly centered in housing assembly at the top of the stroke, but CS explained it needs slide way past center or the whole system can jam up. Works great now.

I've had to adjust the shell plate timing 4 times, which CS thought was unusual, so they sent me new pawls, and an index wheel, just in case I can't keep it in time. They said its unlikely either part is defective, but they are the most likely culprits if continuing to fine tune the timing doesn't work, and wanted me to have the parts just in case.

Just shy of 3% of the cases failed.case gauge. Out of curiosity I ran them through the Factory Crimp Die a second time, and all but one then passed the case gauge.

I also had several high primers, but all occurred when the shell plate timing was off. When the timing was right, all primers were slightly below flush.

The powder drop was working great, with the 10 drop averaging, 4.08 grains at the beginning and end of every 100 rounds, until today. After about 50 rounds I went to place the bullet, and there was powder, but it was noticeably low. It was 1.8 grains, on the digital scale. A ran two drops, at 1.4 grains, and 1.9 grains. I stopped loading, and I'm going to completely dissassemble, clean, and reassemble the whole thing.

Once I get the timing, and powder drop, properly tuned, I'm going to run several hundred more rounds, and then add a Mini bullet feeder.

[CCT125US]

Congrats on some successful loads!

Blue Bullets are good for general use, and I really like the 135, but out of my HKs, a jacketed HP is noticeably more accurate.

Of note, Blue Bullets offers a special order section in which you can order .356 diameter bullets. These are more accurate than their standard diameter of .355 out of multiple HKs for me. Talking a consistent and repeatable gain of 8-10 pts on a B8 at 25 yards. With the .356, I can typically shoot a 96+, where the .355 is typically around 85+. Tested out of multiple P30s, USPc, P2000s and P2000sks. YMMV

[DMF13]

I got the powder drop worked out, and its back to being very consistent, dropping 4.09gr, checked with a 10 drop average, at the beginning, and end, of each session.

The primer system, and shell plate are now properly adjusted. Although, I am having a problem where the bolt holding the shell plate sometimes works loose. A little research indicates I should probably add a lock washer. I don't have a 3/8" 'star' lock washer lying around, but I'll grab one this week.

I am embarrassed to say that, as I started to build a rhythm, I have a tendency to get sloppy placing the new case on the plate, and as a result I've broken 5 decapping pins, when the incompletely inserted case tips sideways, when advancing to the sizing die. That's the only thing the last two runs I've done that has cost me serious time.

I still have about 3% of the rounds failing the case gauge, after the normal process, but zero high primers, now that everything is properly tuned. I set the ones that fail the gauge aside, and run those rounds back through the Factory Crimp Die, at the end of the loading session. Nearly all those rounds then pass the gauge. Out of the last 500 rounds I've loaded, only two rounds totally failed the case gauge, if they had a second run through the FCD.

This is making me an ammo snob. I don't want to use up the assorted Winchester White Box, Blazer, and other cheap ammo I have lying around anymore, now that my CO pistol is zeroed for my reloads.

[DMF13]

Things are generally going well, except for one thing. I'm bending/breaking decapping rods at a rate of about one every 82 rounds. I loaded 328 rounds today, and broke 4 rods.

I've adjusted the tension on the rods exactly how Lee describes, but it still happens way too often.

Everything else is good. COAL based on random sampling is 1.495 to 1.520. Powder throw, based on checks at the beginning and end of each session, is 4.1gr +/- .05. (average of 5 throws each check) Primer timing, and shell plate timing, have been spot on. If I check/tighten up the shell plate each time I load primers, that's no problem either.

The only thing vexing me is the frequency of broken decapping pins. Lee replaces them, but its a hassle, and I have to pay to ship the broken ones back.

[Duelist]

INteresting. I don’t recall ever breaking a decapping pin (or rod), regardless of die manufacturer, but I have not been using a progressive press system either, so my experience may not be relevant to what you are going through.

Are your cases still tipping over, causing the breakages?

[Flamingo]

The only thing vexing me is the frequency of broken decapping pins. Lee replaces them, but its a hassle, and I have to pay to ship the broken ones back.

Are you reloading Norma brass? They have really small flash holes.

[DMF13]

Are you reloading Norma brass? They have really small flash holes.No, its mostly Federal, and Winchester, brass, and Hornady nickel plated brass. Its not specific to any brand of brass though.

[SecondsCount]

Does the LNL AP have a little spring, etc to hold the brass in place when placed in the shellplate? My Dillon 550B has one that keeps the brass in place when you let go of it.

[Flamingo]

I do my depriming as a separate step prior to cleaning. I had a tool head with just a depriming die. I use a Mighty Armory (https://www.mightyarmory.com/collections/decapping-dies/products/copy-of-mighty-armory-shorty-bull-decapping-die-in-stock). I like it.

[DMF13]

Are you reloading Norma brass? They have really small flash holes.


Does the LNL AP have a little spring, etc to hold the brass in place when placed in the shellplate? My Dillon 550B has one that keeps the brass in place when you let go of it.There is a spring that holds the cases in place. Its held down at the first spot where cases are inserted, so they can slide into the plate, and then it rises up to hold the case as the plate advances to the size/decap die.

[DMF13]

Are you reloading Norma brass? They have really small flash holes.


Does the LNL AP have a little spring, etc to hold the brass in place when placed in the shellplate? My Dillon 550B has one that keeps the brass in place when you let go of it.There is a spring that holds the cases in place. Its held down at the first spot where cases are inserted, so they can slide into the plate, and then it rises up to hold the case as the plate advances to the size/decap die.

[DMF13]

Still learning. Sometimes the hard way.

My brass elf has brought me lots of once fired stuff, from the range where he works. Its almost all Federal, Winchester, and Hornady. The Hornady is nickel plated. I've never had any crimped primers until today.

Today, I set up the press, hit about 400 rounds of brass with One Shot, and started loading. Once I've got everything set up, my pace is now about 250-300 rounds an hour, but that was screwed up today.

About a dozen rounds in, the press locked up. It was a nickel plated case, and the primer wouldn't seat. I cleared the press, and got back to it, but about 5 rounds later, it happened again. Clear, and back to work, and it happens again.

It finally dawned on me to examine the cases more closely. All three were nickel plated Winchester +P, with a date code on the head stamp, and two had a red ring around the primer. It was not the Hornady nickel plated stuff I was used to. They didn't have the little circle/cross emblem, that's found on a lot of the ammo made for DoD, so I'm surprised it was crimped.

Anyway, I then spent a good chunk of time going through all the cases I had prepped, to separate out all that crimped brass from rest. So instead of spending about two hours (including setup/cleanup) to load up 400 rounds, it took close to three hours.

I'm not thrilled that I will need to start looking for those cases in the 3 buckets of brass I have, but beggars can't be choosers.

Also, for the other 397 rounds, only one failed the case gauge, and it passed after I ran it through the Lee Factory Crimp die (FCD) again. So, I'm pleased with the choice of using the Lee U sizing die, and FCD.

[Borderland]

Things are generally going well, except for one thing. I'm bending/breaking decapping rods at a rate of about one every 82 rounds. I loaded 328 rounds today, and broke 4 rods.

I've adjusted the tension on the rods exactly how Lee describes, but it still happens way too often.

Everything else is good. COAL based on random sampling is 1.495 to 1.520. Powder throw, based on checks at the beginning and end of each session, is 4.1gr +/- .05. (average of 5 throws each check) Primer timing, and shell plate timing, have been spot on. If I check/tighten up the shell plate each time I load primers, that's no problem either.

The only thing vexing me is the frequency of broken decapping pins. Lee replaces them, but its a hassle, and I have to pay to ship the broken ones back.


https://leeprecision.com/decapping-die

This thing is a brute and it won't break pins. It isn't a sizing die though so you turn decapping and sizing into a two step operation. I usually decap before I clean my brass anyway so no big deal for me.

Glad to see you making some headway. It's a journey, not a destination.

I started reloading in the 70's and still enjoy it.

[Jim Watson]

Lee sizing dies have the same decapping pin as the decapping die, you don't have to double handle cases.
Lee makes a small diameter decapping pin for those troublesome Normas.

Squirrel Daddy makes hardened decapping pins to fit Lee dies.

[mmc45414]

Twice the powder measure stuck in the up position, and I got no powder, buy my visual check caught that before placing a bullet.
Even though I have Dillon stuff, I like the Hornady powder measure better, except...
I think the asymmetrical spring setup is not optimal. I have two of them (5.56 & 300BO) setup like I described in this thread (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?36137-Hornady-Measure-Extra-Spring&p=869796&viewfull=1#post869796). I ended up with full boxes of the spacers and screws, if you are interested I could probably do a little care package.


I did have one round fail to case gauge, and I'm not sure why that happened. I'm running a U die for sizing, and a factory crimp die. Probably overkill, but I thought that would be a "belt and suspenders" approach.


Just shy of 3% of the cases failed case gauge. Out of curiosity I ran them through the Factory Crimp Die a second time, and all but one then passed the case gauge.
You mentioned that you plan to add a "Hundo" style case gauge. When I got the RL1100 I bought the Armanov version, and have enjoyed having it. Also, if you are still checking with a barrel, the checker would be a tighter tolerance. All of the rounds that fail all work fine, I just separate them so they don't end up going to a match. I just bought a couple of Shields, and I take the failed rounds and load them into the Shield mags, and they all shoot fine (my primary M&Ps have Apex barrels in them, not sure if they would be tighter or not.

Since you are using range brass, is there any consistency to the failures? Sometimes there can be issues with brands that were fine with 115gn loads that don't like a 135gn (or, in my case 147gn) load seated deeper.

As you probably have researched, using the FCD can help assure feeding, but might be doing so by force. What I do, since getting the case checker, is only run the failed rounds through the FCD. I do this on a separate single stage press, but you could just get something simple like this (https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1013020665?pid=807734). Or maybe something like this (https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1013005426?pid=176078), and that would be handy if/when you ever want to load something else.


I am embarrassed to say that, as I started to build a rhythm, I have a tendency to get sloppy placing the new case on the plate, and as a result I've broken 5 decapping pins, when the incompletely inserted case tips sideways, when advancing to the sizing die.

Squirrel Daddy makes hardened decapping pins to fit Lee dies.
Squirrel Daddy is The Way, if you are breaking them you probably want to cut back on your coffee before you break something else :cool:
I might try one of the high end dies (Mighty Armory, yada) someday, but for a long time I just use the Lee die with the SD pins. If it hits anything (Norma case, pebble, 22LR case) the pin just gets pushed up. I set the collet tight enough that I am for sure going to feel the extra resistance, and I created a little yellow electrical tape flag on the pin in the proper position for visual confirmation. I keep it snug enough to feel it, but loose enough I can just tap it back into position with a hammer.

I also love their 223 and 308 expander pins. I size all my carbine rounds without expanding them, after washing and trimming I use a Lee decap die (they need to be shortened) with the expander in station one, that makes sure the flash hole is clear of anything and makes the neck round right before it gets primed and charged.

[DMF13]

Even though I have Dillon stuff, I like the Hornady powder measure better, except...
I think the asymmetrical spring setup is not optimal. I have two of them (5.56 & 300BO) setup like I described in this thread (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?36137-Hornady-Measure-Extra-Spring&p=869796&viewfull=1#post869796). I ended up with full boxes of the spacers and screws, if you are interested I could probably do a little care package. That's a brilliant idea. Thanks for the offer for parts. PM inbound.

You mentioned that you plan to add a "Hundo" style case gauge. When I got the RL1100 I bought the Armanov version, and have enjoyed having it. Also, if you are still checking with a barrel, the checker would be a tighter tolerance. All of the rounds that fail all work fine, I just separate them so they don't end up going to a match. I just bought a couple of Shields, and I take the failed rounds and load them into the Shield mags, and they all shoot fine (my primary M&Ps have Apex barrels in them, not sure if they would be tighter or not.Yes sir, I did end up getting a Hundo case gauge. Wasn't aware of the Armanov version at the time. I do what you're describing. If it fails the gauge, it goes in the training only bucket. It's probably overkill, with the U die, and FCD, and somewhat forgiving Glock barrels, but I figure why take a chance.
Since you are using range brass, is there any consistency to the failures?None so far, but I'll keep checking.

As you probably have researched, using the FCD can help assure feeding, but might be doing so by force. What I do, since getting the case checker, is only run the failed rounds through the FCD. I do this on a separate single stage press, but you could just get something simple like this (https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1013020665?pid=807734). Or maybe something like this (https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1013005426?pid=176078), and that would be handy if/when you ever want to load something else. Funny you should mention that. Ever since the rash of decapping pins breaking, I was think of getting an APP to decap prior to cleaning, and I could use that with the FCD too.

Squirrel Daddy is The Way . . . I may have to try that out.

[mmc45414]

That's a brilliant idea. Thanks for the offer for parts. PM inbound.
I replied, will try and get a baggie together next week.


Ever since the rash of decapping pins breaking, I was think of getting an APP to decap prior to cleaning, and I could use that with the FCD too.
Our big APP thread is here (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?39391-New-Lee-Automatic-Processing-Press!&highlight=mmc45414).
I found it helpful to use the lanolin lube and just size the cases if I ran them through the APP to decap.