Sight in for HD shotgun

[Crow Hunter]

So what is the "proper" sight in/zero for a HD shotgun with GRS?

I my experience, slugs and buck and birdshot don't shoot to the same POA/POI.

One of the great benefits of the shotgun is the ability to shoot a variety of different ammo types, but if they all shoot differently, what do you do?

I assume that at typical HD distance, it probably doesn't make that much difference but what is the consensus of the shotgun cognoscenti?

Do you sight it in for your preferred slug load at 50 yards and note any difference with buck at closer ranges or something else?

I have owned a Benelli M1 and a 590 with GRS in the past but never actually adjusted the sights because I honestly never really used them (why I don't own any now).

But I am considering getting a 1301 Tactical to complement my 1301 Comp and part of my internal debate is how would I use it and get the most out of it.

[DDTSGM]

Not a member of the shotgun cognoscenti but taught LE shotgun for a while.

I patterned all our academy shotguns @ 25yards with 00B (Federal FC), mostly bead sights and then with slugs (Federal). My experience is that they shot pretty much the same with slugs.

For HD/SD, I think 25yards would be where I'd pattern/zero then see where it hits at 50. Again, my experience shooting bead slugs @ 50 is that they shoot pretty much the same - neckhold on a metal torso @ 50 generally hits upper center mass - which is good for me. Only problem was that @ 50 on metal, my mistakes were memorialized until I could run down and paint. :rolleyes:

My reasons for 25 yards is simply that in a HD/SD scenario I don't think it is likely to engage beyond that distance.

JMO - worth what you paid.

[167]

I zero buck and slugs at 25 yards.

Federal buckshot loads and Truball slugs pretty much have matching POA at that distance.

Check POA/POI at 50, 75, and 100 yards with slugs.

[Crow Hunter]

I meant to say don't shoot to POA/POI at longer ranges.

But I also have limited experience shooting buck and slugs. I mostly shoot birdshot at crows and other assorted flying critters.

Most of my slugs/buck experience was go to the store get a 5 rd box and do a couple of "BANG, OWWW" and have a lot of partial boxes with 2 or 3 rods left in them.

I still have a .30 cal ammo can of Remington single aught buck that Sportsmans guide sent me by mistake that still smells new when you open it that I bought after I got that Benelli M1 in 1998.😒

So my experiences with POA/POI may be flinch related as much as anything.😁

You have probably fired more buck/slug than I have in my life teaching one class.

[Crow Hunter]

I zero buck and slugs at 25 yards.

Federal buckshot loads and Truball slugs pretty much have matching POA at that distance.

Check POA/POI at 50, 75, and 100 yards with slugs.

How much variation do you see at longer ranges?

I wasn't hitting notebook paper at all at 50 yards the one time I tried it with a 590 shot off bags. (Ouch). Maybe flinch? I gave up after 1 box of slugs as I was getting a recoil headache and wasting ammo at that point, I felt. It was using a modified choke and Remington Sluggers if that matters.

Standing at 15 yards I was on paper hitting my 2in diameter bullseye.

[167]

How much variation do you see at longer ranges?

I wasn't hitting notebook paper at all at 50 yards the one time I tried it with a 590 shot off bags. (Ouch). Maybe flinch? I gave up after 1 box of slugs as I was getting a recoil headache and wasting ammo at that point, I felt. It was using a modified choke and Remington Sluggers if that matters.

Standing at 15 yards I was on paper hitting my 2in diameter bullseye.

Usually a little high at 50.

This is 5 rounds standing through a 590 with slugs that the gun technically wasn’t zeroed for.

97886

[RevolverRob]

In a perfect world you should have three overlapping patterns. Step wise:

1) You zero the sights with chosen slugs at 25y. At that distance you will hopefully be able to put 3-5 in your 2" circle, maybe opening up to 4".

2) Check your buckshot pattern. It should completely enclose the slug grouping from step 1. It will cover that by opening up 8-12".

3) Check your birdshot pattern. It should completely cover your buckshot pattern. Hopefully without opening up much more. But if it does, who cares? You're firing birdshot to get reps behind the gun, not shoot tight patterns.

So we can think of our patterns like this:

O (birdshot) > o (buckshot) > • (slug)

If the slugs aren't getting you a consistent grouping smaller than your buckshot pattern, switch slugs. I'd do that anyways from 1600fps Sluggers. Federal Tru-Ball low recoil are my (and many other folk's) preference.

[Paul Blackburn]

I suggest taking a class that teaches the push/pull method of shooting.

When done properly the push/pull technique mitigates recoil so the shotgun doesn't beat you up with 00 buck and slugs.

Once you experience the proper technique you wont flinch and will be able to get true data on your zero and POA/POI patterns at 5,10, 15, 20, 25, 50, 75, and 100.

Get the good ammo mentioned above that you would use for home defense to collect your data.

Often times people are surprised to find out that the buckshot they thought was good enough will not keep all the pellets on a torso sized target at 10 yards.

You get a lot out of a good shotgun class that will make you more confident with it especially if you practice.

[revchuck38]

+1 to the above.

I strongly agree with taking a class with someone who teaches the push/pull method. I took a class with Rob and Matt Haught and we went through a couple of hundred rounds of 12 gauge, mostly birdshot but also some 00 buck and slugs, and I had no shoulder soreness. I was using an 870 rather than an autoloader.

There's no reason to use full-power ammo in an HD shotgun. Go with the low-recoil stuff. My understanding is that the 1301s work fine with it.

There's a strong preference on P-F for Federal Flite Control (FFC) eight-pellet 00-buck low-recoil ammo. It's not hype. My 870 with a cylinder bore barrel will keep all eight pellets in the A zone of a USPSA target at 25 yards.

I zeroed my 870 at 25 yards with Federal Truball low-recoil slugs, and all three rounds touched. I checked with the FFC load and POA/POI are the same. I'd be confident using it at 50 yards with slugs, but farther than that is rifle range for me. Since I live in a suburban area, any threat that stays outside my house will be addressed by local LE rather than me.

[Crow Hunter]

In a perfect world you should have three overlapping patterns. Step wise:

1) You zero the sights with chosen slugs at 25y. At that distance you will hopefully be able to put 3-5 in your 2" circle, maybe opening up to 4".

2) Check your buckshot pattern. It should completely enclose the slug grouping from step 1. It will cover that by opening up 8-12".

3) Check your birdshot pattern. It should completely cover your buckshot pattern. Hopefully without opening up much more. But if it does, who cares? You're firing birdshot to get reps behind the gun, not shoot tight patterns.

So we can think of our patterns like this:

O (birdshot) > o (buckshot) > • (slug)

If the slugs aren't getting you a consistent grouping smaller than your buckshot pattern, switch slugs. I'd do that anyways from 1600fps Sluggers. Federal Tru-Ball low recoil are my (and many other folk's) preference.

That is an awesome description. Very clear and concise.

I appreciate that.

[Dov]

Really good advice.

My only input would be decide what load/application/mission is your primary mission and if there are any compromises to be made zero to accomplish primary mission.

If for example this shotgun is dedicated home defense, then decide what type of load you want for that application and especally if using Buckshot make sure you pattern test at short range intervals from one hole to biggest pattern at max engagement range.

With Flight control and proper choke (basically no or little choke for Flight Control) that will be greatly simplified.

Also if a HD or other weapon that various family members might use, make sure sighting option works for everyone, this is one niche were lasers really shine that is seldom mentioned. If laser is zeroed then anyone that uses the weapon that can see laser can make hit. Not necessarily true with Irons, Scopes, or to lesser extent Dots.

If the gun is used in multiple roles like Bird Hunting, Deer Hunting, and HD I'd personally zero it for HD and rezero if needed for each hunting season and rezero again for HD after hunting season.

Lot of people worry about triggers, but IMVHO sights and zero are second only to reliability. Sights not only need to be reliable and correctly zeroed but easily & smoothly usable (suitable Scope eye relief for example, or proper comb and stock fit for irons vs Dot vs scope). Only after that do I worry about trigger if its really bad.

I'd also strongly encourage you to once you decide on Buckshot and Slug for particular gun you order in bulk from good place online like this good for pumps 8 pellet low recoil load https://www.luckygunner.com/12-ga-2-3-4-00-buck-federal-8p-law-enforcement-flitecontrol-wad-250-round

Getting ammo that way insures its from same lot so if you test 5 rounds the rest will probably perform same, also IDK if it applies as much for shotgun ammo but Massad Ayoob has recommended recording lot numbers of carry ammo used in case your involved in a shooting, since it will allow for more accurate forensic tests or allow one to point out possible errors in forensic testing in documentable fashion.

HTH

[TCinVA]

What I tell people to do in class is:

1. Determine which load you are going to use for home defense. Sight your gun in so that you have point of aim, point of impact with that load.

2. Experiment on the range to find out how other loads you would like to use perform with that zero.

I use Federal's Flight Control 8 pellet buckshot load as my go-to home defense load. I set my sights up so that I have a good 25 yard zero for that load, meaning I put the sights on a particular part of the target and the pattern is centered around that exact point. I do use slugs, but mainly for demo purposes. Still, I wanted the ability to use slugs if I chose so I shot a number of different types and found the slug loads that hit closest to the point of impact of my buckshot load. I found that Federal slugs in general and Federal's Tru-Ball slugs in particular shoot to almost the identical point of aim of my preferred buckshot load in most of my guns.

In one of my 1301's, the Federal slugs shoot a little low and left of point of aim but Fiocchi Aero style slugs shoot to the same point of aim as my FFC buckshot loads. I found out that those same Fiocchi slugs shoot a little low and left of point of aim in my other 1301.

Such is the nature of shotguns.

Now if I was setting a gun up to shoot slugs for bear defense or hunting or whatnot, I would set the gun up for that use instead.

Identify what you are going to do with the gun the vast majority of the time and set the gun up to do that thing. Then find out how it works with other loads for other purposes. On a defensive gun I'm primarily interested in setting it up for my preferred buckshot and then finding a slug that will shoot as close to it as I can. That minimizes the need to remember offsets or to try and Kentucky windage shit under stress.

The end result of that methodology is that I've been able to shoot my FFC loads with precision and accountability at distances from 3-25 yards, and then I can immediately slug select and put an ounce into the upper chest of a steel plate at 150 yards. I'd say that about covers anything I'm likely to actually do with a shotgun in hand.

[TCinVA]

How much variation do you see at longer ranges?



Between slugs you can see a difference of a foot or more at 25 yards. In his Shotgun Instructor class Tom Givens does a demonstration where he puts three slugs into a playing card at 25 yards using the slugs he's zeroed his shotgun for. (It was some Winchester slugs he had a boatload of when I went through his class) Then he used another slug at 25 yards and was barely on the entire silhouette. Same shooter, same distance, same gun...different slug.

And all slugs will not shoot equally well through your shotgun. Some slugs will shoot very consistently, some will be all over the place just depending on how that particular slug interacts with your barrel.

When you find something that works well in your gun, buy a lot of it. Ammunition variance from lot to lot can make a huge difference in performance.

[Crow Hunter]

Thanks guys!

I really appreciate it.

I think this has cemented my desire to get a separate HD shotgun with GRS as opposed to using my Comp for both hunting and HD.

[entropy]

Some really good discussion here.

Thank you.