G19 FTFeed first round of slidelock reload

[MDS]

So I have a Gen3G19 that has done well by me. It's got maybe 6K through it, maybe more, I don't keep careful track. I put a drop of lube on it every 500 rounds or so, maybe every other range trip. I clean it every 1-3k by wiping it down. Nothing religious or anything, just if I have nothing else to work on that night and it occurs to me that the gun is very dirty. The gun ran fine for maybe 4-5k, then started stovepiping every 50 rounds rounds or so, a few times per range session for a few sessions. I replaced the RSA, no improvement. I replaced the 336 ejector it brought with a new one from a gen4 9mm trigger housing, and it hasn't stopped since, for maybe 1-2k rounds.

Until earlier today. I started getting hung up during reloads, where the first round would get stuck at a steep angle between the magazine and the ramp. At first I thought it was me, maybe dropping the slide to early or something. I wiggled the gun and it went into battery. I took note of the mag # and drove on. It happened again with the same g17-sized mag, and again I wiggled the gun as I brought it in to do immediate action and it chambered by itself. Odd. By now I suspect something's wrong with the magazine I was using as a reload. I switched to another g17 mag and it happened again. I stopped my session to trouble shoot, and figured out that I could reproduce the stoppage at will by slamming any g17-sized mag home and dropping the slide immediately. If I slammed the mag home more gently, everything went fine. I could reproduce the problem with all 10 of the g17 mags I own. I also tried to reproduce it with g19 mags, and was able to do it maybe 25% of the time. I really had to slam it home and drop the slide immediately.

Interestingly, the stoppage would self-correct most of the time if I wiggled the gun. Some experimentation led me to the conclusion that the magazine was seated too high, because if I tugged on the bottom of the mag a little, the problem would correct itself most of the time. That's why wiggling the gun worked - the wiggling would cause the mag to drop a little in the well, re-aligning the round and allowing it to chamber. Sometimes the alignment wouldn't correct itself and I had to work the slide back just a bit to make room for the realignment.

Obviously, this is unsettling. If I have to reload in a fight, I suspect I'll slam that mag home harder than usual. And if I'm in the kind of fight that calls for a reload, I'm no CQB expert or anything, but I'll go out on a limb here and say that this would be a suboptimal moment for a stoppage.

Any advice/insight would be appreciated!

[Al T.]

I'd try new (or newer) magazines and see what happens.

[Byron]

Given that it is happening across a variety of magazines, is there any chance that your magazine release is damaged or needs replacement? While its primary function is to keep the mags from falling out, it also stops the mags on insertion.

I'm no expert, but it's a cheap enough thing to test (though I guess most parts on a Glock are)

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[MDS]

I'd try new (or newer) magazines and see what happens.

Yeah, I tried it with all my g17 mags, and a few g19 mags. The g17's ranged from <100 to maybe 500 rounds of use. I don't notice any odd wear on them.


Given that it is happening across a variety of magazines, is there any chance that your magazine release is damaged or needs replacement? While its primary function is to keep the mags from falling out, it also stops the mags on insertion.

Great idea, I should have thought of this. I'll try to make time for some pics tonight.

[MDS]

Pics of the mag release, still in the gun. It's a Vickers. If I get time to do a cleaning tonight, I'll post pics of it out of the gun, along with others for comparison.

From the top...
1060


From the bottom...
1061

[Jason F]

It's probably not the culprit, but the mag release notch in your mags.... how does it look?

Just wondering if you've perhaps worn down the lower edge with a lot of hard reloads, and perhaps the tolerance has gotten a little loose and now the mags are able to over insert JUST enough to cause your malfunction.

Mag release is probably more likely, but it's worth a shot I guess.

[JM Campbell]

Return to stock. Rinse and repeat to eliminate the culprit/s.

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[MDS]

Return to stock. Rinse and repeat to eliminate the culprit/s.

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Yeah, I ran out of time last night, but hopefully tonight I'll play with swapping in stock mag and/or slide releases.

I think I'll keep the non-stock ejector, though. ;)

[JV_]

Per our PMs, I believe the slide release could be a contributing factor. Especially since the top round in your mag is bumping in to the bottom of the slide (a smidge behind the breechface). This causes the top round to get pushed down and jump forward, I've had 2-3 guns with this problem.

The TangoDown/Vickers slide release holds the slide less locked back, by .005", from a stock release. It was designed this way.

It was a problem on my Gen4 19s, so much so that it was difficult to insert a mag that was fully loaded, because the slide was trying to further push down the top round. I brought up this issue to TD when they were first released and here's a snip of what I got back - via email:

> The extended release in your photo is slightly longer than a stock Glock
> part by .010/.012 and we are about .005 under the original which is well
> within acceptable tolerance.

Don't change the mag release and the slide release at the same time. Only make one change at a time.

[LOKNLOD]

Per our PMs, I believe the slide release could be a contributing factor. Especially since the top round in your mag is bumping in to the bottom of the slide (a smidge behind the breechface). This causes the top round to get pushed down and jump forward, I've had 2-3 guns with this problem.

The TangoDown/Vickers slide release holds the slide less locked back, by .005", from a stock release. It was designed this way.

It was a problem on my Gen4 19s, so much so that it was difficult to insert a mag that was fully loaded, because the slide was trying to further push down the top round. I brought up this issue to TD when they were first released and here's a snip of what I got back - via email:

> The extended release in your photo is slightly longer than a stock Glock
> part by .010/.012 and we are about .005 under the original which is well
> within acceptable tolerance.

Don't change the mag release and the slide release at the same time. Only make one change at a time.

I had this exact problem when I installed a Vickers slide release on my G17. It's the one I had a grip chop on, so I was leery of blaming the part given i had potentially changed mag/well geometry. But inserting a mag resulted in impacting the top round's rim into the bottom of the slide. The issue definitely existed with the Vickers part and went away when the stock part was reinstalled. I'm interested to hear that it's possibly not specific to my gun or just a single bad example.

[JV_]

I'm interested to hear that it's possibly not specific to my gun or just a single bad example.I had the problem with (2) Vickers releases, in more than one gun.

Now, I only use Glock extended releases.

[breakingtime91]

I had the problem with (2) Vickers releases, in more than one gun.

Now, I only use Glock extended releases.

ditto, vickers slide release caused the exact problem your having. The rim of my round would strike the slide and not go into battery.

[MDS]

Per our PMs, I believe the slide release could be a contributing factor. Especially since the top round in your mag is bumping in to the bottom of the slide (a smidge behind the breechface). This causes the top round to get pushed down and jump forward, I've had 2-3 guns with this problem. Don't change the mag release and the slide release at the same time. Only make one change at a time.

The TangoDown/Vickers slide release holds the slide less locked back, by .005", from a stock release. It was designed this way.

It was a problem on my Gen4 19s, so much so that it was difficult to insert a mag that was fully loaded, because the slide was trying to further push down the top round. I brought up this issue to TD when they were first released and here's a snip of what I got back - via email:

> The extended release in your photo is slightly longer than a stock Glock
> part by .010/.012 and we are about .005 under the original which is well
> within acceptable tolerance.

Yep, that jibes with what I saw last night. The Vickers slide release seems to be as much as 1/32" longer than a stock part, though I have an analog caliper and increments that small are hard to measure. Definitely longer, though.

If I have time tonight, I'll run a battery of tests. I have 3 9mm Glocks, 4 Vickers slide releases, and 4 OEM slide releases (not extended) so I'll try to run through a few combinations and report back. It'll be a shame if I have to stop using the Vickers slide release - it's measurably more user-friendly than the stock parts IME, especially in the wet. :(

I don't mind trouble-shooting, bu it's odd to me is that I don't recall ever experiencing this problem before, when all my 9mm Glocks have had Vickers slide stops for many thousands of rounds. I ran through RSS in May with Vickers parts, for example, without issue - and there were some fairly reload-intensive blast drills there...

[JV_]

I don't mind trouble-shooting, bu it's odd to me is that I don't recall ever experiencing this problem before, when all my 9mm Glocks have had Vickers slide stops for many thousands of rounds. I ran through RSS in May with Vickers parts, for example, without issue - and there were some fairly reload-intensive blast drills there...

Total speculation: If this part is causing your issues, it's possible that repeated contact with the slide is peening the edge, making it lock back less than a new part. It's possible that all you need is a new (Vickers) release.

I'm anxious to hear the results of your troubleshooting.

[MDS]

Total speculation: If this part is causing your issues, it's possible that repeated contact with the slide is peening the edge, making it lock back less than a new part.

Good idea. I have a NIB Vickers part, you know, just in case another 9mm Glock falls from the sky. ;) I'll compare tonight.

[MDS]

Had a chance to run home during lunch and do some testing. TL;DR - the Vickers slide release regularly causes all 3 of my 9mm Glocks to FTFeed the first round of a slidelock reload.

Guns:
1. G19Gen3, maybe 6K rounds with the Vickers SR
2. G19RTF, maybe 4K rounds with the Vickers SR
3. G17Gen4, about 250 rounds with the Vickers SR

Parts:
1. 3 used Vickers SR's, per above
2. 1 NIB Vickers SR
3. 3 used OEM SR's, taken off G19Gen3's
4. 1 unused OEM SR, taken off the G17Gen4 above

All the Vickers parts measured slightly shorter than the OEM parts from the rear of the pin hole to the middle of where the slide notch locks. In other words, the used Vickers SR's didn't show any appreciable shortening after thousands of rounds, compared to the NIB part.

Magazines:
For each G19, I used 2 G19 mags, 2 G17 mags, and 1 G18 (OEM 33-rd) mag. For the G17, I used 2 G17 mags and the G18 mag.

Procedure:
I attempted to reproduce the malfunction on all three guns with the used Vickers parts in them. I succeeded on the first try with the G19Gen3 using a G17 mag, on the second try with the G19RTF using a G17 mag, and on the fourth try with the G17 using the G18 mag. I wasn't able to reproduce the malfunction using correct-sized mags - I tried 5 times with each gun.

In the interest of time, since all three guns choked on the first test, I only used the G19Gen3 - my primary carry gun - for the rest of the tests. I like to be more thorough in a test like this, but I simply didn't have time.

I put each of the Vickers SR's into the gun and successfully induced the malfunction on the first try with a G17 mag, including with the NIB Vickers part. I didn't bother trying with a G19 mag.

I put the oldest OEM part into the gun, a part that came off a G19Gen2 manufactured in 1985 IIRC. I recently sold it off, but with all new parts, including a Vickers SR. (Hmm, maybe I should contact the buyer and give them the option of picking up the OEM SR... :eek:) Anyway, point being this SR has been around the block. I couldn't induce the malfunction, though I tried many times. I could almost get the back of the slide to touch the top round, but not quite. I tried with one of the much less-used OEM parts to similar effect.

Needless to say, I left the OEM part in the gun. The G17 and the G19RTF still have the Vickers parts, but I'll swap them out tonight or tomorrow when I get a few minutes. I'll reach out to Tango Down and see what they say, but given JV's experience, I don't expect much of a resolution from that quarter. This is a real bummer. I find the Vickers parts - both the slide release and the mag release - to be much more usable than the OEM parts. The SR in particular gives my thumb a very positive purchase compared to the OEM. I don't need any extra reachability for the SR, it's the ledge shape that makes the difference, I think, as well as the more aggressive texture. If anyone has any ideas about how to achieve a similar change without compromising function, I'd owe them a beverage or three.

And the malfunction is definitely caused by the Vickers SR, because it holds the slide slightly more forward than the OEM part. As JV and others described, with the slide slightly more forward, the ramp just under the breachface hits the top round, jars it out of alignment, so the geometry becomes all wrong and feeding fails. The harder I slam the mag home, the further out of alignment things get. Often it can be fixed by tugging or wiggling the magazine, which wiggles the top round and lines it up well enough to dive home; when that didn't work, I had to manually pull the slide a 1/4 or 1/8 inch to relieve some pressure and let the round line itself up - this is especially the case when the slide captured the round, as in the picture below. This malfunction was induced slowly, so I know it wasn't caused by releasing the slide early.

1062

Thanks for the help, folks. I'm still a little confused that this issue never popped up for me before. The G19RTF has never malfunctioned, the G19Gen3 had some FTE/stovepipe malfunctions a while back which were fixed by an ejector upgrade, and the G17Gen4 is flawless through all ~250 rounds so far. Maybe I should switch to a 1911 to avoid all this hobbyist-style hardware tinkering and mystery. ;)

[JV_]

Awesome, thanks for the followup data.

-Sent using Tapatalk.

[rob_s]

Interesting read. I also have a G19 with several thousand rounds that started having this issue. In my case I would insert the magazine, thumb the slide stop, and it would hang just long enough for me to realize what had happened and then drop on its own.

I'm strongly considering ditching my two current Gen 3 19s that both have a verity of aftermarket parts for two new gen 4s that I won't modify in any way.

[Nephrology]

If you liked the Vickers, I recommend buying a Glock OEM extended magazine release and filing it down to your liking. That are new sights are basically the only changes I make to my Glocks at this point.

[JM Campbell]

Good to hear you figured it out....now go shoot and be happy!

[MDS]

If you liked the Vickers, I recommend buying a Glock OEM extended magazine release and filing it down to your liking. That are new sights are basically the only changes I make to my Glocks at this point.

Good idea, I've heard of folks doing that. I'll give it a try. I may also try modifying a standard length part, see what I can come up with.


I'm strongly considering ditching my two current Gen 3 19s that both have a verity of aftermarket parts for two new gen 4s that I won't modify in any way.

Assuming you use the slide release to drop the slide during a reload, have you tried using the standard-length OEM slide release with wet or even moist hands? IME, it doesn't take much moisture for me to start slipping on the stock release.

[rob_s]

You know what's funny? I used the stock release for a decade in various Glocks before switching.

What I find odd is that the gun worked fine for probably 1k+ rounds after the switch and then just started having problems out of nowhere.

[Ed L]

Interesting read. I also have a G19 with several thousand rounds that started having this issue. In my case I would insert the magazine, thumb the slide stop, and it would hang just long enough for me to realize what had happened and then drop on its own.

I'm strongly considering ditching my two current Gen 3 19s that both have a verity of aftermarket parts for two new gen 4s that I won't modify in any way.

A question: Considering the first hand accounts of problems we have heard about the Gen4 Glocks, why wouldn't you just go back to stock parts in your Gen3s?

[rob_s]

A question: Considering the first hand accounts of problems we have heard about the Gen4 Glocks, why wouldn't you just go back to stock parts in your Gen3s?

The threes seem equally plagued, and depending on downers you read the fours may or may not be better off now.

My threes also have decided to develop extractor issues in a edition to the problems in this thread.