Bear in my back yard

[LittleLebowski]

While I was examining the below scat that's all over my backyard (not sure if the below will show the undigested acorn husks), my neighbor wandered over and just happened to mention that two black bear cubs were found in a yard about 25 yards away from my house. Animal control was called but the cubs went back into the forest that borders out properties. Now I know why Nacho the Belgian Malinois wants out early in the morning and late at night..... I have an AR ready to go (headshot, there's at least one forum member here who has dispatched a bear with an AR) but I want to check zero on my FAL tomorrow. Got a call into a good friend that's a very experienced but I would appreciate any advice on dispatching a bear in rural VA (not town limits). Not trigger happy but trigger ready, if that makes sense.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/IMG_20120929_173104.jpg

[TCinVA]

They're kind of a fact of life in my area. Generally speaking, people don't seem to be too inclined to shoot them here and so far there's been no major incidents despite bears literally wandering into people's houses. I only know of a couple of legit acts of aggression by black bears in my area despite a lot of encroachment and a boom in the bear population.

With kids I wouldn't take any chances, though. If the authorities in your area aren't idiots it should be a no brainer if you have to put one down. Thankfully most of the black bear in Virginia aren't 500 pound monsters. Their skull is tough, though...so repeated application might be required with a 5.56 as rounds may glance off the curvature of the skull. Obviously I'd pick the heaviest 5.56 hollowpoint I could find for the task if using the modern sporting rifle. An AK or .30-30 might also be good options for anti-bear work. Then there's always the reliable ol' 12 gauge that's rather popular for defense against much bigger and more aggressive bears in Alaska. A good "tactical" setup with ghost rings and loaded with slugs would be my preference for in-the-back-yard defense against bears.

Also consider that your pistol may be the weapon you're stuck using to put the bugger down if it comes to that. 9mm isn't ideal for bear, but just like with a particularly obnoxious person putting enough hollowpoints in the right spots should get the beast to knock it off.

[LittleLebowski]

Yeah, I'm not too worried but it certainly seems like justification to mount a good light on the old' FAL :D

Hopefully the dog doesn't take one for the team because Todd would never forgive me.

[JV_]

The animal control folks in our area are quite competent. They definitely don't give the same advise that city folks get....

-Sent using Tapatalk.

[TGS]

Yeah, I'm not too worried but it certainly seems like justification to mount a good light on the old' FAL :D

Dude, what a great excuse to buy more gun stuff!


Hopefully the dog doesn't take one for the team because Todd would never forgive me.

My initial thought was to keep the killer mal inside unless you're outside with the FAL nearby.

Just for my own education, what did your buddy suggest? I can only think of the following:
1) Secure anything in the yard or through open windows that might be attracting them.
2) Deep penetrating loads and review the proper aiming points on a bear.
3) Bear spray for anyone in the house who isn't packing something substantial.
4) Buy a double barrel dangerous game/safari rifle. "But honey, we've got bears now!" :cool:

I've dealt with black bear while camping, and if left alone they're non-aggressive and just mosey about doing their business. The one's we have had to confront respected our space when we yelled and postured. Obviously, like you I'd rather be trigger ready than dependent on the bears' mood.

[JV_]

You need a suppressor.

-Sent using Tapatalk.

[LittleLebowski]

Haven't heard back from my LEO buddy but did talk to a good friend that is a professional hunting guide. Hunting guide said that the black bears will instinctively run to a tree and climb when confronted by a barking, charging dog, even just one dog He was very concerned that I be careful about shooting if I had to. He said that in some states, having your pet attacked is not enough justification to shoot.

I will be calling animal control, the Sheriff, and perhaps the state wildlife tomorrow or the next day.

[JHC]

Remember the true "code of the West" - Shoot, shovel, shutup.

Friend of my son's took a nice bear with his ACOG sighted AR (5.56). One shot to the side of it's head.

[JodyH]

12ga. "Rubber Rocket" (http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/5rds-12-gauge-fin-stabilized-rubber-rocket/cName/less-lethal-ammo-12-gauge-ammo) less lethal is a good black bear educational device.
The state predator control officer uses them on nuisance bears with good effect.

[Default.mp3]

http://i.imgur.com/GBgsQl.jpg

Don't have much else to add, other than stay safe.

[Alaskapopo]

While I was examining the below scat that's all over my backyard (not sure if the below will show the undigested acorn husks), my neighbor wandered over and just happened to mention that two black bear cubs were found in a yard about 25 yards away from my house. Animal control was called but the cubs went back into the forest that borders out properties. Now I know why Nacho the Belgian Malinois wants out early in the morning and late at night..... I have an AR ready to go (headshot, there's at least one forum member here who has dispatched a bear with an AR) but I want to check zero on my FAL tomorrow. Got a call into a good friend that's a very experienced but I would appreciate any advice on dispatching a bear in rural VA (not town limits). Not trigger happy but trigger ready, if that makes sense.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/IMG_20120929_173104.jpg

Check your laws as you know. Up here you can only shoot them if you are in defense of life or property or if you have a hunting license, bear tags and are in an area legal to shoot them. Keep your garbage, dog food etc out of reach for them and they probably won't hang around much. I have had to kill 5 in the line of duty and its not something I enjoy. Try to co-habitate if I can. I have killed one medium sized black bear with a head shot using 75 grain TAP. This was after several failed or poor shots with shotgun slugs. Its embarrasing but we treed the bear after it tried to get into an resthome. I had it lit up with spot lights and it was 90 feet up in the tree with a mountain as the back stop. I thought it would be an easier shot that it was. I wounded it but did not kill it. The ghostring sights on my 870 were not up to the task of seeing the bear in the darkness. I got my rifle out which had a 1-6 Swarovski on it at the time. I took a good reast on my patrol car and waited until I could get a perfect head shot litteraly right between its eyes and it dropped out of the tree dead. I should have just used a rifle on that one from the start. Thats part of the reason I now carry a SCAR 17. The other bears I dispatched were with 12 gauge slugs at short ranges generally 7 to 10 yards. Cracker shells (12 gauge shells that launge a firecracker that explodes near the bear) do work well for hazing bears until the get habitutated to them. Rubber bullets also work.

Pat

[ToddG]

Hopefully the dog doesn't take one for the team because Todd would never forgive me.

If your dog sacrifices himself to save a family member, I'd consider that honorable service. There's no point in having a protection dog if you're not willing to let him protect. I'd certainly be sad to see something bad happen to Nacho because he's an awesome dog, but part of what makes him awesome is you know he'll jump in to protect you. He's just being true to his nature.

As for dealing with bear, I've only been close to a black bear once and it was while hanging out with SLG. You might want to PM him, he's got extensive knowledge and experience on the matter. Ditto GJM who had a few grizzly (as in the bear) tales for us at dinner last night.

[LittleLebowski]

Check your laws as you know. Up here you can only shoot them if you are in defense of life or property or if you have a hunting license, bear tags and are in an area legal to shoot them. Keep your garbage, dog food etc out of reach for them and they probably won't hang around much. I have had to kill 5 in the line of duty and its not something I enjoy. Try to co-habitate if I can. I have killed one medium sized black bear with a head shot using 75 grain TAP. This was after several failed or poor shots with shotgun slugs. Its embarrasing but we treed the bear after it tried to get into an resthome. I had it lit up with spot lights and it was 90 feet up in the tree with a mountain as the back stop. I thought it would be an easier shot that it was. I wounded it but did not kill it. The ghostring sights on my 870 were not up to the task of seeing the bear in the darkness. I got my rifle out which had a 1-6 Swarovski on it at the time. I took a good reast on my patrol car and waited until I could get a perfect head shot litteraly right between its eyes and it dropped out of the tree dead. I should have just used a rifle on that one from the start. Thats part of the reason I now carry a SCAR 17. The other bears I dispatched were with 12 gauge slugs at short ranges generally 7 to 10 yards. Cracker shells (12 gauge shells that launge a firecracker that explodes near the bear) do work well for hazing bears until the get habitutated to them. Rubber bullets also work.

Pat

I was hoping you would weight in, thanks. Good data.

[Kyle Reese]

I hope this can be resolved without any loss of life or property.

(and check the zero on your FAL in case)

:cool:

[smithjd]

We have a lot of bears in my AO, some are upwards of #500. We can't have bird feeders because of them, even with the dogs outside. The most important thing to remember is they are just looking for food. If you keep your garbage in the garage, and have no other food sources around, they will go somewhere else. I like to think of them as 200# racoons.

They are a very tasty when properly handled and prepared...

[F-Trooper05]

In Alaska we only need insect repellent...

http://www.newsminer.com/view/full_story/19315212/article-Woman--two-girls-get-bear-scare-on-Granite-Tors-Trail

[LittleLebowski]

You need a suppressor.

-Sent using Tapatalk.

Indeed :D

[JV_]

I will be calling animal control, the Sheriff

In our county, animal control is under the Sheriff's office, but they don't/won't deal with large animals (bears, deer, and mountain lions). You have to call the state game warden. There are two numbers for them, an emergency line and non emergency.

http://www.dgif.state.va.us/

[Cookie Monster]

Been around black bears a bunch, lots of backpacking in bear country, living in Yosemite National Park, and other places. I've never had an issue, like a previous post, "200 lb raccoons." Some rocks and loud noise usually makes them move along. I'd likely give them some rubber buckshot and a second chance before pulling out the FAL but I've been called a hippie before.

Grizzly bears are a different story, worked in the Tetons teaching kids and always had the family sized bear spray on me. We played with the training versions and you could definitely hose something down with those. I had one release in my truck, maybe 5 second burst. Lot of stuff piled around, something shifted and everything came together. Luckily there was a big turnout right there and i got the truck pulled over. It was ugly. The studies are there that shows the bear spray works, whether it is before the spray is effective or human factors (ease of use, more willing to spray than shoot a bear, etc).

Bears not showing any fear (used to humans), acting strangely, or if you got some little kids around should be dealt with differently but that goes without saying. If you get a picture of the bear or you get a suppressor, post a photo, I'd love to see either.

Cheers,
Cookie Monster

[orionz06]

Is your backyard in the woods?

[TGS]

The studies are there that shows the bear spray works, whether it is before the spray is effective or human factors (ease of use, more willing to spray than shoot a bear, etc).

One of the things I've heard is that bear spray isn't actually less humane than shooting the bear because bear spray causes 2nd degree chemical burns, meaning the bear should be put down anyway given the injury to their eyes. Obviously there are advantages to bear spray for many people, but is that part about 2nd degree chemical burns true or just a wives tale?

[MD7305]

LL, in my end of the state a game warden unit would handle the matter. In my personal experience they attempt to get the bear to leave the area but noncompliance resulted in the bear getting dispatched. Our department tries to perimeter the bear until game and fish arrive. I would call your local game warden folks and get their take on the situation. In refernce to kills with an AR, I saw a warden kill a small adult black bear with a carbine with body shots, approximately 3. Not sure which load. After witnessing the incident I'd feel more comfortable with a 12ga. slug or 7.62.

On a side note, I killed two cubs with my wife's Honda Civic a couple years ago. Quite a mess, car and cubs. I was afraid to exit the car because I feared my G19 and 124gr.+P GDHP wouldn't have stopped momma bear.

[LittleLebowski]

I'm calling all authorities relevant to this tomorrow.

Since my spare time takes a huge backseat to family duties, I did not check zero on my FAL but my trusty 5.56 Sabre middy/BCM lower sits in Condition 3 out of reach of little hands. It has my most powerful light on it (new Surefire) and has a 20 round mag of TAP on call. I have a FAL, AK (SAR-1), a shotgun (Norinco 1897 trench broom replica), and my trusty 5.45 AR to choose from. Unfortunately, not all are set up with white light and red dot or similar sights.

My backyard turns into a forest, it goes back some ways, Orion.

[LittleLebowski]

In our county, animal control is under the Sheriff's office, but they don't/won't deal with large animals (bears, deer, and mountain lions). You have to call the state game warden. There are two numbers for them, an emergency line and non emergency.

http://www.dgif.state.va.us/

Called them. They were quite reasonable. Basically, you can shoot to protect humans and pets. Don't be stupid, that's it.

[NEPAKevin]

Dude, what a great excuse to buy more gun stuff!

I like the way you think.

FWIW, the black bear incidents that occur in the Poconos pretty much fall into some variation of the following scenario. People feed the bears, then stop. The most common variation of the theme is people leave their garbage cans out, the bears get into the garbage the people then move the cans into their garage or screened porch, out of site but not out of smell. That said, if a suppressed, large bore, SBR with gen III night vision adds to your sense of well being, and that of your furry family member... and I am told that stress is a major risk factor of coronary events, its really for your health.

[JodyH]

For black bears in semi-urban areas the slug loaded shotgun is the choice I'd make.
Brenneke Black Magic 1oz. slug to be specific.
Enough lead to make a clean kill, but any misses will likely ground out inside 200 yards.
If I had a black bear problem I'd have my Benelli Nova "cruiser ready" with Brenneke slugs in the tube and a fin stabilized rubber slug or two on the sidesaddle.
If the bear's just being a nuisance throw a rubber slug in and pop him. If's the bear's a threat rack in a Brenneke and put him down.
The Nova is great for that with it's magazine disconnect button on the forearm.

[smithjd]

FWIW, my understanding is that black bears kill more people every year than grizzly bears (probably because there are a lot more of them, and people in contact with them).

However the old saw about "playing dead" with black bears is counter productive. When a grizzly attacks, it is usually territorial or protective in nature. When a black bear attacks, usually a large boar in the spring of the year, it is with the intention of eating you...

All that said, we have a lot of bears around here and know people that have even had them visit inside their residence. I don't know if I've ever heard about one killing a family dog. Last time I heard about one killing a person, was many years ago when a boar dragged a boy scout out of his tent in the middle of the night.

A guy in our neighborhood feeds them. We have a three legged sow with three cubs who visits him regularly.

[HighSpeedBail]

Been around black bears a bunch, lots of backpacking in bear country, living in Yosemite National Park, and other places. I've never had an issue, like a previous post, "200 lb raccoons." Some rocks and loud noise usually makes them move along. I'd likely give them some rubber buckshot and a second chance before pulling out the FAL but I've been called a hippie before.

Bears not showing any fear (used to humans), acting strangely, or if you got some little kids around should be dealt with differently but that goes without saying. If you get a picture of the bear or you get a suppressor, post a photo, I'd love to see either.

Cheers,
Cookie Monster



I don't have much experience with bears but one of my college professors (female, early 50's, overweight) lived in the boonies in Georgia and she talked about regular black bear sightings. I asked her what kind of gun she had, she laughed at me. She said, you slam some metal garbage can lids together and you'll scare them off.



http://www.wimp.com/scaringbear/


I saw this video and immediately thought of her. The link is safe.




Anyways I think the above underlined advice is great. I would also recommend getting some Wolf Urine and spraying it all around your property. I've bought some at Dicks Sporting Goods, I imagine you can find it locally.

Here are some online retailers - some of these folks seem pretty serious. You may want to call and see what advice they might have for you.

http://www.flemingoutdoors.com/wolf-urine.html
http://www.predatorpee.com/
http://www.yardlover.com/wolf-urine-32-oz


http://www.predatorpee.com/images/2011/wolf_urine_3-200.jpg

http://www.yardlover.com/media/catalog/product/cache/8/image/370x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/8/o/8ozwolfbig_1.jpg


Oh and in case you are wondering it smells like hell and whatever you do, don't get it on you!

Good Luck

HSB

[MDS]

Called them. They were quite reasonable. Basically, you can shoot to protect humans and pets. Don't be stupid, that's it.

If you shoot them defensively, do you get to cook them? Just askin'.

ObAdvice: use some of these at your next range session. :cool:

1059

[NEPAKevin]

http://youtu.be/zM1D-r-0cGo
Natural selection fail.

[Alaskapopo]

If you shoot them defensively, do you get to cook them? Just askin'.

ObAdvice: use some of these at your next range session. :cool:

1059

In my state no. The meat gets donated to a charity and the hide goes to Fish and Wildlife.
Pat

[MDS]

The meat gets donated to a charity and the hide goes to Fish and Wildlife.

Wow, a surprisingly sane approach. Don't waste the animal, and also take away any potential prize from pretending it was defensive. Nice! :D

[SeriousStudent]

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/IMG_20120929_173104.jpg

If you have a bear that shits dollar bills in your backyard, why on earth would you want to shoot it? Afraid of the higher tax bracket?

In all seriousness, good luck.