Mossberg 590S Shockwave w 8 pellet OO flightcontrol & Crimson Trace?

[Dov]

With the various conversations about Cheek weld guns and Federal's LE133 Low Recoil 8 Pellet OO Flight Control load I've been thinking about the Whippet configuration in a much different light than the past.

Specially with the 18.5" barreled version of the Shockwave, since if I understand correctly there are no issues with switching between the birdshead stock and conventional stock, adding the Crimson Trace Laser Saddle provides more flexibility for aiming safely

Am I the only one thinking about this?

[L-2]

Get what you want.

I'm all for a good shotgun.
I've got an 18.5" Mossberg 590A1 with ghost ring sights.
I've used the 20" Mossberg 590A1 guns with bead and with ghost ring sights.

I own and tried a Remington Tac-14, with pistol grip and with a brace. I didn't like it and converted the Tac-14 to a short barrel shotgun (aka SBS) and put a full stock on it. I've switched back & forth between a pistol-gripped full stock and a straight-stock. Right now, I prefer the straight stock. I also put a barrel with rifle-sights on it rather than having just the bead which is another personal preference of mine.

I've got other 18.5" shotguns with straight stocks, too.

I'd really like to have a 14" 590A1 as I used to be issued:
https://www.mossberg.com/590a1-class-iii-pump-action-6-shot-51689.html

but it'd be ~$1000, some paperwork, and waiting for the ATF to approve, which I'd rather not bother with right now.

I agree, the big question is 18.5" vs. 14" (and any required paperwork +$200 w/fingerprints, if going the SBS route); I don't care for the bird's head pistol grips much.

[HeavyDuty]

Get what you want.

I'm all for a good shotgun.
I've got an 18.5" Mossberg 590A1 with ghost ring sights.
I've used the 20" Mossberg 590A1 guns with bead and with ghost ring sights.

I own and tried a Remington Tac-14, with pistol grip and with a brace. I didn't like it and converted the Tac-14 to a short barrel shotgun (aka SBS) and put a full stock on it. I've switched back & forth between a pistol-gripped full stock and a straight-stock. Right now, I prefer the straight stock. I also put a barrel with rifle-sights on it rather than having just the bead which is another personal preference of mine.

I've got other 18.5" shotguns with straight stocks, too.

I'd really like to have a 14" 590A1 as I used to be issued:
https://www.mossberg.com/590a1-class-iii-pump-action-6-shot-51689.html

but it'd be ~$1000, some paperwork, and waiting for the ATF to approve, which I'd rather not bother with right now.

I agree, the big question is 18.5" vs. 14" (and any required paperwork +$200 w/fingerprints, if going the SBS route); I don't care for the bird's head pistol grips much.

That’s the one I’ve been wanting.

[Dov]

Get what you want.

I'm all for a good shotgun.
I've got an 18.5" Mossberg 590A1 with ghost ring sights.
I've used the 20" Mossberg 590A1 guns with bead and with ghost ring sights.

I own and tried a Remington Tac-14, with pistol grip and with a brace. I didn't like it and converted the Tac-14 to a short barrel shotgun (aka SBS) and put a full stock on it. I've switched back & forth between a pistol-gripped full stock and a straight-stock. Right now, I prefer the straight stock. I also put a barrel with rifle-sights on it rather than having just the bead which is another personal preference of mine.

I've got other 18.5" shotguns with straight stocks, too.

I'd really like to have a 14" 590A1 as I used to be issued:
https://www.mossberg.com/590a1-class-iii-pump-action-6-shot-51689.html

but it'd be ~$1000, some paperwork, and waiting for the ATF to approve, which I'd rather not bother with right now.

I agree, the big question is 18.5" vs. 14" (and any required paperwork +$200 w/fingerprints, if going the SBS route); I don't care for the bird's head pistol grips much.

I agree about the birdshead grip whippet setup in general, was just thinking about ease of low profile & more secure transport when using our fuel efficient hatchback vs our more comfortable SUV. With the birdshead grip on the 18.5" barrel I can fit it even in a case under load bearing floor of the hatchback, and could install plywood cover or such that would block access to that even if windows broken on the car. The hatch would have to be opened to get to the storage area.

But would still be able to switch to regular stock when planning to use it at destination, and while I could just remove regular stock from conventional stocked gun for ease of transport until I arrived at destination where planning on using it. I thought with the Shockwave with 8 pellet Flight Control load or Federal Mini slugs it would useful at night during the travel unlike a stockless gun.

Anything different from Winchester 1300 or Remington 870/11-87 to be aware of with Mossberg pumps? I know the safety, part of reason I'm looking at Mossberg line with age etc I think the thumb operated safety will be smoother for me to operate than the crossbolt safety on my 11-87's or my Dad's old 870 I'll probably inherit someday.

IIRC Chuck Haggard likes the 500 and/or 590 line so don't have any concern about Mossberg but lack experience with it.

[314159]

A data point.

I'm intrigued by the cheekweld technique. To the point that I've set up a few. I think it really works pretty well for 9mm and .22lr.

The 12 ga. Shockwave 590, for me, did not work. Tested using light loads and the 8 pellet Flight Control. What I found out was that if I did everything right, it worked just fine. If I got the least bit sloppy I got punched in the mouth. Hard.

Proper instruction and dedicated training would certainly improve on my video based attempt. However, my conclusion was that trying to do this at speed or under stress wasn't worth it for the level of commitment I would put into it. (A heavier and/or gas operated design might work a lot better as well.) Good luck.

[Dov]

A data point.

I'm intrigued by the cheekweld technique. To the point that I've set up a few. I think it really works pretty well for 9mm and .22lr.

The 12 ga. Shockwave 590, for me, did not work. Tested using light loads and the 8 pellet Flight Control. What I found out was that if I did everything right, it worked just fine. If I got the least bit sloppy I got punched in the mouth. Hard.

Proper instruction and dedicated training would certainly improve on my video based attempt. However, my conclusion was that trying to do this at speed or under stress wasn't worth it for the level of commitment I would put into it. (A heavier and/or gas operated design might work a lot better as well.) Good luck.

Yeah I'm planning on testing a rental gun if I can find a place that has them as rentals, I'd think theyd be popular with people that pick guns based on movies and such so maybe good chance of finding one to try that way.

[feudist]

With the various conversations about Cheek weld guns and Federal's LE133 Low Recoil 8 Pellet OO Flight Control load I've been thinking about the Whippet configuration in a much different light than the past.

Specially with the 18.5" barreled version of the Shockwave, since if I understand correctly there are no issues with switching between the birdshead stock and conventional stock, adding the Crimson Trace Laser Saddle provides more flexibility for aiming safely

Am I the only one thinking about this?

03RN is our Shockwave guy. He's done some work with a laser sight on it too.
As far as cheek shotguns go, I believe Rhett really recommends a strap on the pistol grip for additional control(?)

[JRB]

IMHO, there's two good reasons for the Shockwave/TAC-14 configuration:
-Get the hardwood version for a fun 1980's WitSec shotgun in your collection, no NFA stress required
-A super easy add-a-stock SBS starter kit.

I can't for the life of me imagine a combo where the local laws/transport rules/bad situation all added up to where I'd want an 18.5in Shockwave. But your situation and knowledge is likely different than mine.

Definitely 'Rule #1: Bring a Gun' applies and if that's what works for your situation, awesome.
But I'd rather have an 18.5in 870 or 590 with rifle sights and a real buttstock, and if that doesn't fit the concealment/transport situation and it *had* to be a smoothbore, I'd get the 14in TAC-14/Shockwave instead.

In my own sophomoric bubba/messing around with an old Mossberg 500 ATP, 590, & Cruiser, and Remington 870 & TAC-14 I own/owned - I found that even the worst folding stock is better than no stock at all. Given the OAL of most birdshead grips, if you're going with an 18.5in gun I'd opt for a Choate or ATI folder before I'd go Shockwave style.

[03RN]

03RN is our Shockwave guy. He's done some work with a laser sight on it too.
As far as cheek shotguns go, I believe Rhett really recommends a strap on the pistol grip for additional control(?)

Thanks for the @

Unless you're hunting large game with likely shots past 50 yards or this is your primary weapon for law enforcement I don't see any significant benefit to using a stocked shotgun. Especially if you're talking about road trip self defense.

I'm faster and more accurate with a buttstock. But can manage the shockwave well enough I'm comfortable with it for serious self defense purposes. Kinda like revolvers.

My slug accuracy past 50 yards does fall off.

I don't see the point of an 18" shockwave unless that's just what you have in which case it'll still be shorter than a stocked shotgun but shockwaves are pretty cheap.
Full power slugs in this one

https://youtu.be/NbKMmV6K0y8

https://youtu.be/UevW_PJ3iHs

https://youtu.be/fN0ZUVGpmUQ

https://youtu.be/xOFkabebEAs

https://youtu.be/xNFufQDV8xg

[Dov]

03RN What loads where you using from the car videos?

Do you have any experience with heavy loads in 4" N frames? Like Buffalo Bore or Federal Cast Core or similar handloads, if so how does that compare to Shockwave with loads you used from car?

I've got experience shooting 300 hardcast loads from my 4" S&W 629, and know from that experience that technique and regular practice make big difference in pain vs lack of pain.

[Chuck Whitlock]

I agree about the birdshead grip whippet setup in general, was just thinking about ease of low profile & more secure transport when using our fuel efficient hatchback vs our more comfortable SUV. With the birdshead grip on the 18.5" barrel I can fit it even in a case under load bearing floor of the hatchback, and could install plywood cover or such that would block access to that even if windows broken on the car. The hatch would have to be opened to get to the storage area.

But would still be able to switch to regular stock when planning to use it at destination, and while I could just remove regular stock from conventional stocked gun for ease of transport until I arrived at destination where planning on using it. I thought with the Shockwave with 8 pellet Flight Control load or Federal Mini slugs it would useful at night during the travel unlike a stockless gun.

Anything different from Winchester 1300 or Remington 870/11-87 to be aware of with Mossberg pumps? I know the safety, part of reason I'm looking at Mossberg line with age etc I think the thumb operated safety will be smoother for me to operate than the crossbolt safety on my 11-87's or my Dad's old 870 I'll probably inherit someday.

IIRC Chuck Haggard likes the 500 and/or 590 line so don't have any concern about Mossberg but lack experience with it.

In your use-case, I'd go with the 18.5" barrel and use these:

https://www.mossberg.com/flex-conversion-kit-stock-adapter-with-pistol-grip-12-gauge-96026.html

https://www.mossberg.com/flex-standard-stock-13-5-lop-95226.html

[Lester Polfus]

In your use-case, I'd go with the 18.5" barrel and use these:

https://www.mossberg.com/flex-conversion-kit-stock-adapter-with-pistol-grip-12-gauge-96026.html

https://www.mossberg.com/flex-standard-stock-13-5-lop-95226.html

I agree. It used to be if you wanted a take down shotgun, you had to deal with a finicky mechanism that split the gun at the barrel and mag tube junction. I think the flex system looks perfect.

The only problem is, I haven’t been able to find the standalone conversion kit in stock since before the pandemic.

[Dov]

In your use-case, I'd go with the 18.5" barrel and use these:

https://www.mossberg.com/flex-conversion-kit-stock-adapter-with-pistol-grip-12-gauge-96026.html

https://www.mossberg.com/flex-standard-stock-13-5-lop-95226.html

Yeah that looks really interesting and an even better fit for my use case, I'd never heard of that kit before.

Wonder if that's a modern adaption of older takedown system?

[TCinVA]

With the various conversations about Cheek weld guns and Federal's LE133 Low Recoil 8 Pellet OO Flight Control load I've been thinking about the Whippet configuration in a much different light than the past.

Specially with the 18.5" barreled version of the Shockwave, since if I understand correctly there are no issues with switching between the birdshead stock and conventional stock, adding the Crimson Trace Laser Saddle provides more flexibility for aiming safely

Am I the only one thinking about this?

I have a 14" Shockwave with a CT laser on it.

I can use it. It's about twice as slow at everything as having an actual stock and sights, but I can use it.

I don't use it much because I already have enough problems in my shoulders, hands, and elbows due to life's wear and tear without heaping the consequences of lots of stockless shotgunning on top of them. On the occasion where I feel the need for a low profile upgrade to my carried handgun when travelling I've been known to take my Shockwave with me. Because even at half my usual speed with a shotgun I'm still at a significant advantage over just my pistol.

Lasers on long guns...or whatever we want to call these things...are not as automatic as you might think. We can use a long gun quickly and efficiently because we're using the stock to align our eye and the sighting system of the gun in a consistent fashion. That's not happening as readily using the laser because the aiming reference is remote. If I bring the gun to my eye so I can find the laser I can bring the gun to my eye to find an optic.

The "cheek gun" concept is essentially trying to replicate that specific benefit of a stock. If you "cheek" the gun you'll find the laser on target pretty readily.

...but you can also use an optic mounted on top of the gun that way.

FFC doesn't generally care what length barrel you shoot it out of. It patterns brilliantly out of my Shockwave.

I don't see the point in going for an 18" barrel when you can just get the 14" version. If length is the issue, get it shorter on both ends not just the handling one. Installing and removing the stock on a shotgun repeatedly is kind of a pain in the ass.

[03RN]

03RN What loads where you using from the car videos?

Do you have any experience with heavy loads in 4" N frames? Like Buffalo Bore or Federal Cast Core or similar handloads, if so how does that compare to Shockwave with loads you used from car?

I've got experience shooting 300 hardcast loads from my 4" S&W 629, and know from that experience that technique and regular practice make big difference in pain vs lack of pain.

The car videos had light birdshot.

I'm not sure it's very comparable to magnum handguns. Less blast, using 2 hands at 2 points of contacts.

[Gun Mutt]

I'm looking at a tidy little year end bonus and unless something emergent comes up, a 14" Shockwave-S is happening in my world. I'm a yuge 12 gauge fan and shorty shotties make my heart beat a little faster.

Years ago, I put 4 quick rounds through a friend's genuine Witness Protection, using a stance much like 03RN, I bounced the empty coffee can with every shot. As I handed it back, he said he was leaving it to me in his will since no one else had ever run that way, everyone else had fired it from the hip with the attendant results. What optic are you running and how is it mounted?

Speaking of RustyCrusty, his video of the Federal Shorty shells really has me licking my chops:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HickaAVzBH4

[RustyCrusty]

Mr. Bolke is a fan of the 18” birdshead grip build because it allows 50 state travel with a familiar pump shotgun setup that is also as short as *legally* possible.

There’s a few extreme close quarters techniques I only cover in class that are more difficult to manage with a stock that can still be used with the 18” Birdshead. Some maneuverability is sacrificed with the added four inches over the shockwave, but not all of it. For those that travel much with the gun and those living under more tyrannical gun laws, the juice may be worth the squeeze.

Remember that the Birdshead equipped 18” 590 is still 2” shorter than the SBS or braced Shockwave…
Paying $200 and a years time gets you *less* mobility added than simply swapping to a Birdshead grip