HK45c or HK45 Full Size?

[SwampDweller]

I have been pouring through threads on this subject for the past week, but I still find myself at an impasse.

I had and shot an HK45c for years and was very competent with it. Not too long ago I basically gave it to a family member who needed a pistol, and at the time I had mostly switched to carrying either a Glock 21, or more often, a Glock 19.

But I find myself missing having an HK45 variant on my side. I shoot faster with the G19, but for some reason, I am noticeably more accurate with a G21, USP 45, or HK45 with only slightly slower split times (not slow enough to be slower than my ability to process what is going on between each shot, which is the maximum desired split time for me).

I'm looking at either getting another Hk45c or HK45 as a primary carry pistol, especially because I may end up travelling to jurisdictions with a 10 round magazine limit somewhat frequently in the near future.

My dilemma is, should I go with the full size HK45, or the HK45c again? Is there enough of a difference in recoil/muzzle flip between the HK45 and HK45c to make a difference? Could the HK45 be more reliable? This will be both an at-home defensive weapon as well as an every day carry. The 45c has the versatility of either using an 8 round mag for easier concealability, while also being able to use full size 10rd mags. In either case, I'll likely be going with a Light LEM. For reference, I routinely conceal carry a G21 or full size USP 45 on a regular basis IWB without too much issue, but if the HK45's "shootability" isn't too much better, the HK45c might be a better choice being it can be run with a full size 10 rounder or more concealable 8 rounder.

[Borderland]

Not sure about the reliability of the 45C. My 45 has never caused any problems except one time it wouldn't lock the slide back on the last round fired. That was due to my reloads and not the pistol. Bumped up the powder charge a hair and it ran like it should. I have about 2K through my HK45. Built the first year of production.

I don't think there's a more reliable pistol to be found.

[Sensei]

The HK45c is much easier to conceal under lite clothes. Mine is set up as a lite LEM and is very accurate and reliable. The glaring issue with it is the light options are sparse. I think that the TLR7 family, Crimson Trace, and a couple of others are all that fit w/o some modifications or adapter. The Surefire options don’t fit out of the box.

[LtDave]

I have a couple of HK45's and a USPc in .45. My full size guns are more accurate. By a measurable amount. One HK45 is set up with LEM, the other is set up for cocked and locked carry. The USPc is LEM. The USPc will shoot 6 factory loads into 2.0" or less at 20 yards. The HK45 set up for cocked and locked shoots 15 different factory loads 2.0" or under. The LEM HK45 does the same with 10 different loads. The compact gun is easier to conceal under light clothing, but I don't find the full size guns objectionable when carried IWB. I really hate the clubfoot 10 round mags for the compacts. They are fugly.

[hlb14]

Having owned several of each over the years, the only thing the full size does better to me is mount a light. For me, the 45c shoots better suppressed, is easier to carry with the ability to take 8rd mags if need be, and fits the same holster as a P30. Dont get me wrong, the HK45 is a fantastic pistol. I just prefer the USP45 for a full size 45.

[GJM]

You might consider a USP FS with the match hybrid LEM trigger.

[RevolverRob]

45C w/LEM trigger or the aforementioned USP FS with the Match Hybrid LEM would be my two choices.

The 45C often fits into P30 holsters, while the USP will need its own thing.

[SwampDweller]

45C w/LEM trigger or the aforementioned USP FS with the Match Hybrid LEM would be my two choices.

The 45C often fits into P30 holsters, while the USP will need its own thing.

I do have and often carry a USP 45 full size in a Black Rhino IWB holster. It’s not particularly difficult, but I guess part of why the HK45 series appeals to me is that it’s okay in mag limit states where the USP is not. Then again, I could get the 10 round ban mags for it, but I’m not sure how reliable those are. The HK45c would just make it all that more concealable in more variety of situations.

[jh9]

may end up travelling to jurisdictions with a 10 round magazine limit somewhat frequently in the near future.

The Venn diagram of jurisdictions that have a 10 round limit and jurisdictions that might jam you up over a combination of someone noticing you carrying a full size pistol because you weren't 100% on point every second of every day and you not being 100% up on what the local carry laws are this week seem like they could become a perfect circle at any moment. There are places where printing doesn't matter. It seems like most of them don't have magazine capacity limits.

I realize that there are places in rural WA or NY that don't care about draconian state regs. Generally you have to pass through lots of places where someone might care in order to get there. 100% 45c. The 2 fewer rounds and slower splits are far less likely to matter than the legal shitshow you might step in while traveling.

[SwampDweller]

The Venn diagram of jurisdictions that have a 10 round limit and jurisdictions that might jam you up over a combination of someone noticing you carrying a full size pistol because you weren't 100% on point every second of every day and you not being 100% up on what the local carry laws are this week seem like they could become a perfect circle at any moment. There are places where printing doesn't matter. It seems like most of them don't have magazine capacity limits.

I realize that there are places in rural WA or NY that don't care about draconian state regs. Generally you have to pass through lots of places where someone might care in order to get there. 100% 45c. The 2 fewer rounds and slower splits are far less likely to matter than the legal shitshow you might step in while traveling.

Good point. Agreed. Looks like I'm going with the HK45c. Leaning towards the LEM model. One I'm looking at is LEM and actually comes with three 8-round mags and I believe it also has true tritium night sights if I'm not mistaken. Prices on OEM 8 round mags aren't terrible either, and I can stock up on a handful of 10 rounders for the range or as pocket reloads.

[SecondsCount]

They are both solid pistols but my preference is the HK45 due to the grip.

[GlockenSpiel]

HK45c is already the size of a Glock 19; if you're going to be carrying it I'd definitely go for that. That said (and I realize this wasn't the original prompt), a Glock 30 would be smaller in every dimension except width and have an actual 10 rounds. It's small enough I would want a pinky rest on it actually. If you shoot the HK better or don't feel comfortable with the Glock that beats the capacity/size difference though.

[SwampDweller]

HK45c is already the size of a Glock 19; if you're going to be carrying it I'd definitely go for that. That said (and I realize this wasn't the original prompt), a Glock 30 would be smaller in every dimension except width and have an actual 10 rounds. It's small enough I would want a pinky rest on it actually. If you shoot the HK better or don't feel comfortable with the Glock that beats the capacity/size difference though.

Well, I love my Glock 21's so much I'd just dedicate one or buy another to chop the grip to G30 length and use G30 mags if I was going to go that route. Should be reliable. But I feel like the HK45c is probably more controllable than an actual G30, but I haven't put it to a timer and B8 target yet. That said, I've shot G30s a bit and was also impressed with the accuracy. Maybe it's something about the Glocks in .45 caliber, barrel twist or bore profile maybe? My G21's are one of the few handguns in any caliber that I can call my shots on virtually 100% of the time. To me that's worth more than faster splits. Plus in my personal experience I have found the larger semi-auto service pistol calibers or .357 Mag seem to have a greater effect on medium to large size animals while I'm out there (never encountered anything like big bears though).

[Super77]

HK45C LEM is what I'd choose in that line.

[SwampDweller]

HK45C LEM is what I'd choose in that line.

Yeah that's what I'm leaning toward once a money transfer goes through.

[SwampDweller]

Well, a Daniel Defense M4v9 managed to snag my money before the HK45c, so now I'm back in the HK45 market. I've just been doing some reading in old threads about them and ran across this by GJM :

"I shot a HK45 and 45C today, in part thinking about the magazine capacity thread. I find the 45C quite difficult to shoot as well as the HK45, because of the short grip."

To GJM, has your thinking at all changed since then? (2012)
I do like the shootability of the full size USP and G21, and I have no issue concealing either of them. Part of what I like about the HK45 and 45c is ban state compliance for traveling, but I know there comes a point where once you move down from full size, the juice can be not worth the squeeze when it comes to larger calibers. So now I'm considering the full size again. I do like the way the HK45c conceals with 8rd mags, though.

[fatdog]

I sold my 45C lem after two years of working with it and packing it on a few of my Western trips and in our woods because I simply could not shoot it well at speed, splits were awful or else I was tagging C zone hits all the time, that is just me. Mine was perfectly reliable even with .45 super. I have a USP45 lem set up I like and can do better with, and if I had to deal with the ban states I have found the 10 round mags for that USP 45 platform to be very reliable. No experience with the HK45 full size although I have been tempted to try one myself.

[SwampDweller]

I sold my 45C lem after two years of working with it and packing it on a few of my Western trips and in our woods because I simply could not shoot it well at speed, splits were awful or else I was tagging C zone hits all the time, that is just me. Mine was perfectly reliable even with .45 super. I have a USP45 lem set up I like and can do better with, and if I had to deal with the ban states I have found the 10 round mags for that USP 45 platform to be very reliable. No experience with the HK45 full size although I have been tempted to try one myself.

Hrm... maybe I should just convert my USP's to LEM and get some 10 rounders for ban state travel if there truly is no sacrifice in reliability. I've just always felt a bit more trusting of a magazine that was designed to hold 10 or less rounds than one that was modified/redesigned to hold less than it was originally supposed to.

I used to have an HK45c that I carried for a long time. After shooting/carrying G19s (which is mostly what I carry), G21s (which I shoot insanely well, like a laser for some reason), and USP 45s (which I do enjoy, though I want to try LEM and have something more readily ban-state compliant), I find myself looking at the HK45 series more and more again. I do remember thinking how much easier it was to control the G21 and even the USP full size compared to my HK45c. Considering I don't have any issue concealing a G21 or USP 45 FS IWB-style, a full size 10 round compliant .45 does appeal to me and couldn't be worse to shoot than a USP. I also like the single trigger pull of the LEM.

I tend to ask "what if" a lot, like what if I found myself in a place that only allowed less than 10 rounds in a pistol? Not to get into politics but recent talk of wanting to limit mags to 8 rounds and the idea espoused that semi autos are "unreasonable" to have period make me wonder if I should just get a 7 shot GP100 to sidestep those concerns as a "just in case".

[JAH 3rd]

Man, you remind me of me. Lots of firearm platforms to choose from. Forward thinking, not only for the short run, but the long run too. And each pistol platform has its pluses and minuses. I just ordered a Beretta 92A1 after days of agonizing about it. Too many thoughts on that 92A1. I finally just decided to buy it, as I already have an M9 commercial. So I'm familiar with platform. Just wanted a rail, so I bought the rail, and what do ya know, the whole pistol came with it....lol.

Good luck in your decision-making. In the end, you'll just have to make a decision and see how it works out. If it doesn't, move on to the next pistol.

I did buy a Ruger GP100 .357 about 6 months ago.

[MGW]

I carried and shot a TDA 45c with the safety/decocker when I was shooting 1911s a lot. I loved the 45c and got really good with it. I bought a 45c LEM and just couldn't get used to that trigger. I sold it and kept the TDA pistol. I had a full-size HK45 for a short time. For a concealed carry pistol it was a lot to lug around. The perceived recoil was lower and the reloads were faster though.

Buy one of each and enjoy the journey. It's just money. :D Plus, in the first year, you'll spend way more on ammo than the cost of the pistols.

[SwampDweller]

I carried and shot a TDA 45c with the safety/decocker when I was shooting 1911s a lot. I loved the 45c and got really good with it. I bought a 45c LEM and just couldn't get used to that trigger. I sold it and kept the TDA pistol. I had a full-size HK45 for a short time. For a concealed carry pistol it was a lot to lug around. The perceived recoil was lower and the reloads were faster though.

Buy one of each and enjoy the journey. It's just money. :D Plus, in the first year, you'll spend way more on ammo than the cost of the pistols.

With my 45c TDA with the lever, I ride my thumb over the safety like a 1911 or USP. I found that after 250 rounds or so, the back of the lever would abuse the knuckle of my thumb to bleed. This doesn’t happen on the USP. That’s partly why LEM appeals to me, along with being more striker fired like. I think the increased size of an HK45 FS would probably negate the thumb bleeding issue.

[MGW]

With my 45c TDA with the lever, I ride my thumb over the safety like a 1911 or USP. I found that after 250 rounds or so, the back of the lever would abuse the knuckle of my thumb to bleed. This doesn’t happen on the USP. That’s partly why LEM appeals to me, along with being more striker fired like. I think the increased size of an HK45 FS would probably negate the thumb bleeding issue.

The safety is in a bad spot for prolonged shooting sessions. I would occasionally unintentionally decock the pistol too. I love the LEM concept. I know when Todd did his long-term test of the HK45 LEM he was able to dial the trigger in.

I still go back and read his testing journal from time to time https://pistol-training.com/hk45-endurance-test-week-thirty-seven-2/

[SwampDweller]

Man, you remind me of me. Lots of firearm platforms to choose from. Forward thinking, not only for the short run, but the long run too. And each pistol platform has its pluses and minuses. I just ordered a Beretta 92A1 after days of agonizing about it. Too many thoughts on that 92A1. I finally just decided to buy it, as I already have an M9 commercial. So I'm familiar with platform. Just wanted a rail, so I bought the rail, and what do ya know, the whole pistol came with it....lol.

Good luck in your decision-making. In the end, you'll just have to make a decision and see how it works out. If it doesn't, move on to the next pistol.

I did buy a Ruger GP100 .357 about 6 months ago.

I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks like this lol. I don’t expect the worst to happen, but I’d rather be a step ahead and already have what I would need for any contingency should the rhetoric of top officials eventually become reality. So I like the idea of an 8 round, ultra reliable .45, but the full size HK45 with 10 round seems like a much better choice from a shooting standpoint. Still only holds 10 rounds for ban areas of the country.

[JAH 3rd]

Being a step ahead is a great place to be. I remember seeing folks at the local ammo stores who just wanted to buy a box of ammo during our last .22 shortage, or whatever caliber that was hard/impossible to find. I assume they just didn't follow the news about ammo shortages, then when they did, it was too late. Also, I bought a Glock 20 10mm about a year ago just to have another caliber in the house.

[Oldherkpilot]

Plus, in the first year, you'll spend way more on ammo than the cost of the pistols.

That's what I tell people about buying a horse. It doesn't take long to figure out that it's the boarding fees, feed and vet bills that sink your bank account, not the purchase price. Cleaning guns beats shoveling shit. (in Louisiana or otherwise!)

[diananike]

The safety is in a bad spot for prolonged shooting sessions. I would occasionally unintentionally decock the pistol too. I love the LEM concept. I know when Todd did his long-term test of the HK45 LEM he was able to dial the trigger in.

I still go back and read his testing journal from time to time https://pistol-training.com/hk45-endurance-test-week-thirty-seven-2/

If I ride the safety on a HK45C like I do on a 1911 then periodically I would partially press the lever past the off safe detent in recoil.
Not enough to decock but enough to render the trigger dead.
I have to put my thumb on my off hand to prevent this from happening.
It’s trainable but not ideal.

Although the 45C is a big gun on the top end the grip is fairly stubby and it doesn’t print much. I’d say it makes it fairly concealable

[SwampDweller]

If the HK USP 45 10 round ban state mags are reliable (which by all accounts, seem to be), I'll just stick with my USP's as my full-size carry .45 option, and buy more mags for it, including some 10 rounders for if I go to AWB states/locales. It'd probably be smarter to get an HK45c instead of a full size for cases where I need something more concealable in the .45 option. In short, I feel a full size HK45 might be redundant since I have two USP 45f's and supporting gear, and ban-compliant mags are available for them that (I think?) are not sacrificing any reliability.

[DanTheWolfman]

yes 45c lem. 10 rders usually. 8 if you need more concealment. Reliable enough for Seal Team 6 Bin Laden raid. Yeah 45c and p30's (93K rounds) are most vetted pistols ever and reliable even if not lubed regularly. like crazy vetted.

Full size HK45 is DOG CRAP DA pull like still going and going and heavier and when the F is this thing going to drop the hammer bad. haven't tried lem on it.

[DLWinner]

I’ve been carrying my 45c for the last couple of weeks. It’s been very reliable and carries well AIWB. Need to find more reasonably priced 10rd mags though.

[Archer1440]

For those of you complaining about decocking V3 HK45 while riding the safety, you might consider that the appropriate (V9) detent plate to turn it into cocked-and-locked mode is seven dollars and two minutes to install.

[diananike]

For those of you complaining about decocking V3 HK45 while riding the safety, you might consider that the appropriate (V9) detent plate to turn it into cocked-and-locked mode is seven dollars and two minutes to install.

It’s not so easy to get parts in Canada.
If HKparts would ship up here I’d already have tried LEM conversion.
I’ve contacted most of the potential distributors to no avail.
So I’m stuck with the standard safety decocker for now